 We will be starting the event and I would request everybody to please mute your mics. What is this? Can you join a launch with Joya Open? I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. I don't know what happened. Open Zoom meeting area. I don't know what has happened. So we can start. Good evening friends. Good evening Deepak. Hello, good evening. Has everybody joined? Mrs. Kohli is there to join. Yes. Just wait for a minute to presume. Yeah we'll wait for a minute. Good evening Padak sir. There is a lot of stalwarts in one place. Lot of stalwarts in one place. That is the beauty of the web world. Sumovala Kamunachen. I think that's the beauty of the topic. F.C. Kohli that's what makes it. Yes. May I request everybody to please maintain silence. The event is live on YouTube and we are just waiting for Kohli madam to join. I request that everybody else should mute their mics please. We'll just start in a few seconds. Good evening Dr. Phatai. This is Vijay Prasad your student. Oh good evening. I request nobody to speak please. Please use the chat box to send your messages. Should we start Mahan? Yeah let's start. So friends welcome to this webinar which is being broadcast on the occasion of the birth anniversary of our dear friend late Dr. F.C. Kohli. Yes stalwart. I'm indeed very happy to welcome all of you. I'm particularly happy to welcome the three speakers who agreed to join the webinar and speak on specific topics which were very dear to Kohli sir's heart. My friend Mahalingam is going to conduct this webinar and I request him to take over please. Before he starts I would once again request that the event is also being broadcast live on YouTube. So I request everybody except those who are going to speak to keep themselves on mute to avoid any voice echoes. Thank you so much once again and welcome all over to you Mahan. Thank you Professor Phatai. Sushant can we have the film? Sure sir one minute. The pick of the ocean could have steered the seven seas. Been a king and not looked back and yet a lighthouse keeper is what you chose to be. Oh lighthouse keeper, keeper of our light. A rock to anchor to. Beacon for the dark night. Each of us here today captain admiral chief. We are all sailors who found our north in the comfort of your keep. Maps without a name. Alone at the helm like Gibraltar you braced. Mighty to be a journeyman. Too humble to be a God. Farewell my lighthouse keeper, keeper of my light. Your watch might have ended. But your life shall shine bright. We've steered the seven seas. Thank you, thank you everyone. Be a king and not look back. Be a king and not look back. A rock to anchor to. Be a king and not look back. Be a king and not look back. Be a king and not look back. Nobody has the result of the strong foundation, business model, and value values that were solely his contribution. Of course the industry has pioneered us down to be the pride of India. I have the unique privilege of working within Crossfield and most of the time it took over a small organisation called ECS. Besides the uncanny ability to see the future, he had the unique capacity to challenge all of us to think and execute. And through that he achieved his objectives. He never rested but continued to work. We are truly happy that we the members of the Think Tank of Computer Society of India are organising the seminar webinar. He has been associated with CSI from its inception and was a president from 1974 to 1976. In a speech he gave at his alma mater, MIT in the US, which honoured him. He talked about his multiple careers. He had by then retired from TCS. He said that he has had three careers in his life so far. The first was as a power engineer when he was rising rapidly through the ranks in Tata electric companies. His second career in information technology began in 1969 when he moved to take over Tata consultancy services. Then a tiny division of Taha Sans. His third career, which began in 2000, was to use the power of this technology for the development and social transformation of India. He felt that there is a lot more for India to do before it can call itself a power as an emerging field. He felt that we should concentrate on building the right ecosystem for automation in India, make it universally applicable and should be used to cater to basic needs. Amongst the number of initiatives he worked on, we took three areas and decided to examine it in the seminar, appropriately titled the Unfinished Agenda of Mr. Kohli. He galvanised people to action. There are many people to whom he sold this vision. The first area that we will deal with as his unfinished task is that of electronic manufacturing. From the 90s he wanted India to be a player in the hardware design and manufacturing area. He foresaw that there would be a proliferation of equipment and gadgets which allow a lot of computing capability. Therefore, he wanted digital component PC manufacturing industries. He said that there were three stages in the manufacture of digital components. One was design engineering, requiring special advanced software and computers, requiring micro electronics engineering skills. He felt that India talent is highly suitable for this requirement. Second was embedded software. As part of miniaturisation, more and more software is embedded into the hardware. Again, a field where Indians have had the competency. The third is fabrication outsourcing, which he felt other countries had taken the lead over India. Given the complex global supply chain solution situation right now, we realised the need for Admin had been in this field. In order to examine the current state, we requested Mr. George Folger, who is the country head and managing director for Scorn India, holding India. He has continued to expand the manufacturing facility of his company in India. He is credited by his peers to have put India on the global map of smartphone and feature phone manufacturing hubs. There is no one better than him in explaining where we stand in this area. Another area of social transformation that Mr. Kohli worked on was in the area of making everyone literate. He studied the practices followed in the literacy drive and he saw the number of people who, after going through the literacy classes, it remained illiterate. He felt that illiteracy has to be removed for empowering Indians. He determined that functional literacy could, to read a newspaper required only the ability to recognise and read 300 words. In order to address this problem, he felt that the teaching should be computer based and he wanted this to cost almost nothing. He looked at creating the right ecosystem. This is a great social engineering project. In order to discuss it, we have someone who worked with Mr. Kohli and that person is Mr. NGPL Narayana. He had an illustrious career in TCS from where he retired as vice president and chief scientist. The third area of his interest was Indian language computing. This was according to not a simple area of translation and transliteration. Indians should have the ability to develop apps and use them in local languages. By focusing on only English, he felt that we were excluding about 800 million non-English speaking people in India from meaningfully participating in this revolution. To examine this area, we have Professor Rajiv Sangal, who has been his friend. Professor Rajiv Sangal has been a director of IIT Varanasi or VHU as we all know. He has also been a director of triple IIT Hyderabad where he is currently a professor. Triple IIT Hyderabad is the place where FC Kohli Centre has been established. He is an authority in this field. Among other things, he has set up the language technology research centre at Triple IIT Hyderabad. Along with Dr. Vinit Chaitra, he developed a computational pernidian grammar. They have these three distinguished gentlemen to take us through various initiatives of Mr. Kohli, which would only be fulfilled when we realise the full potential that he envisioned in these fields. With these words, I would like to now request Mrs. Swaran Kohli to share her reminiscences. Mrs. Kohli. I have sent my talk across. I have sent it across. Okay. Would you like to say a few words because... Share a few words. Okay. I am very touched by this programme that has been planned in memory of my husband. It deals with a lot of things that meant a lot to him, both the adult literacy and the other programmes. He had a lot of plans and he had put forward and done a lot of work on the adult literacy. But what was his real desire that the computers must start talking in Indian languages. So that is one appeal I want to take, that that was his wish and desire. That unless and until the computers talk in Indian languages, it will not help the situation. So that is one basic thing that I want to emphasise on. Otherwise I have given other things in my talk which I hope will come forward. Yeah. Okay. Thanks a lot. Thanks very much to everybody over here today. Thank you. Thank you very much for this. Certainly we will try and read that speech towards the end of this programme. May I now request Josh Folger whom I have already introduced to make his presentation on electronics manufacturing. What I would request is for people to send through chat any question on his field. Because what we intend doing is to immediately take up Q&A after each of these speakers make a spare speech. I will collate the questions and then after select some of them to be answered by the speaker. Josh. Good evening sir. And it's definitely an honour to be invited to speak in this memorial where we are celebrating the life of Dr. Kohli. I didn't have the privilege of working closely with him. But I did have a privilege to see him about two years ago. And this was with the Honourable Prime Minister Mr. Modi. And there was a little bit of humour there. So there were actually, this was of course a lot of celebrities there and there were three lines. There were lines for taking selfies. Obviously there was one line for the Prime Minister. And the bigger line was to take a selfie with Dr. Kohli. And me being an impatient guy, I found Mr. Anand Mahendra standing by himself. So I got an opportunity to actually hang out with Mr. Anand Mahendra. But I do have a picture with Mr. Kohli. He clearly was popular there, well respected, regarded there. I could see listening to all of you and how deep the work is done and the relationships he's built over the years mean. So it's definitely an honour to be here. And thank you sir for inviting me here. So I think, you know, I'm going to have my colleague Meena share the slides as we do. So I think the unfinished agenda, I've just kind of renamed it saying that it's how do we revive the Indian hardware story. And the reason I've said it's revive the Indian hardware story is because late 80s to early 90s India was still in the play in hardware. And then we sort of started to fall behind in this. But the universe has a way of bringing things back together. And I really feel that we have all the stars which are lined up to take us into the new decade, new century in the right direction in the hardware front. I also want to say that the opinions I express here are not representative of my employer, FIH or the Foxconn group. These are my personal opinions. So Meena can you go to the next slide please. So the ESDM is space, a lot of people have different opinions. But this is essentially design, manufacturing, built to print. This is actually the whole supply chain. It's actually a very, very complex supply chain. And I've had the privilege to be in this particular supply chain for 25 years. And it is the same thing. And I spent a lot of time in the US where we did Mexico, Brazil, and then later on in Europe and then India and Vietnam. And it is the same thing. Now with the convergence which is happening today where automotive and many other things are getting in a way E enabled. I think this is just becoming a massive market because just because of this confluence. Everything is computerized. So the opportunity we see when we look at just the ESDM space today it is going to be a trillion dollar industry. And this is just the electronic services space. The electronics industry today is over 2 trillion. But just the electronic services space is a trillion dollars and that's pretty real. We think that India which is today at about 40 billion in this space can go up to up to 150 odd billion in this space. Of course, the National Policy of Electronics talks about this being sort of a 400 billion dollars by 2025. Now the key thing here is that this is a massive employer in multiple layers. There is clearly highly skilled engineers, designers where India already has a leg up in Hyderabad and Bangalore and a few other cities. We do already have a leg up. But then when you get into the machines, the processes and when you get into the associates manufacturing here are the real jobs. You know, I'd say the millions of jobs where we as society, we as engineers have a responsibility to create or convert people who are ungainfully employed into true gainful employment. Next slide, Meena please. So as I said, you know, if you look at this box, simple box here that is product design. I call it product creation, not necessarily R&D because it is a integration of hardware design, mechanical design and software design is how you create this product. We have components. This is a global industry, very high skilled sort of components needed, multiple categories. You know, we look at the Semicon, active passives there, you know, the display, the electromechanicals. All of these things are very, very high tech and all of them are miniaturized and all of them have embedded programming. So it is a massive, massive opportunity. And of course, then there are people, you know, who put them together, you know, semiconductor companies, you know, OSAT services, EMS providers and whatnot, all the way through distribution and the reverse logistics. So this is actually sort of a mega industry. And especially when that is an, I hate to use the word collusion, you know, but really the automotive industry is now becoming very much into this ICT space. A lot of us hear about the shortages of parts, you know, which are a result of many, many things, you know. But really the braceness of this is now becoming a lot more apparent, you know, for people, be it IoT devices, be it servers, be it, you know, your desktop PCs, your mobile phones, you know, IoT devices, EVs, medical electronics. It's a lot of end-use applications, all of them supported by a sort of a massive global supply chain of components and the supporting peripherals. Next slide, please, Meena. Now, India, what is the advantage of India? I think not to state the obvious, but I think the labor costs India has is fairly competitive. You know, I think we really, you know, from a design standpoint, there's a lot of semiconductor design which already happens in India. And very importantly, the government today and many of the state governments are very, very progressive and supportive. So I think if there was a time, now is the time. I think in my humble opinion. Next slide, please. So today, the space is about $70 billion space. All of these categories, I mean, have fabulous CAGR opportunities. And I will talk about what is propelling them in the next slides. You know, but as you can see today, mobile phones, we took the lead on this about six years ago with Make in India. And it's made a lot of progress. Now, there are some spaces here which are sort of not, you know, hitting the headlines yet computer hardware. And these are all big, big spaces where we can grow. And this growth will essentially come, you know, the 70 to 400 billion growth is really going to come from export and improved domestic consumptions and domestic manufacturing. So it's very, very important that, you know, we address this in the right direction. Okay, next slide, please. So the national policy of electronics which came out right before COVID really talks about the goals for 2025. By 2025, this is supposed to create 10 million jobs. And these are 10 million, you know, real direct jobs. The target is to export out. Of course, there'll be a lot of domestic consumption. You know, there's going to be a lot of value addition. And really, in my opinion, it is a very, very well laid out architectural policy. And now, if you go to the next slide, please. Now, when you look at India, and this is something of, you know, sort of back of the envelope, competitive things which I did. When you look at the competing geographies of countries, China, India, Brazil, Vietnam, Indonesia, India kind of checks all of the right boxes. It really is a conducive environment for IP to be protected for reasonably large volume market. If not a value market, the workforce is available in plenty. There is reasonable penetration of, you know, smartphones. There is geo proximity for certain export markets. So I think it's a, you know, sort of checks many of the boxes. The key now for us is to really try to understand how to bring all these advantages and take them, sort of convert them into opportunities. Next slide, please. Now, we have done that in the last six years. One of the milestones we as an industry did achieve is that, you know, the annual production of mobile phones from 2014. We jumped from 16 million to 320 million. We, you know, we work closely with the Ministry of Electronics, and then we were really, really able to achieve this goal. You know, but there's still a long way to go. Now, we're not only making, you know, phones here, people call screwdriver technology, but also components. You know, also some high level sub-assemblies, you know, are being done in India today. And all of this is, this was actually built on the platform of make in India. Okay. Next slide, please. We can skip the slide next. So now, I think Mr. Mahalingam talked about Atmanar Garbarath. So, you know, of course, coming from Chennai and when you can speak about 10 words of Hindi, it took me about two months to say this properly. You know, but Atmanar Garbarath is, I think, much more profound in my mind than make in India. The reason is because, and this is a framework, you know, which few of us sort of put together, as a framework for the ICT industry or the SDM, you know, space. We said that what does Atmanar Garbarath, you know, mean for the space, right? It is design, it is product design. I think that's number one. I think we really have to understand how to do product integration in India and how to really drive this forward. The second is actually multi-tier supply chain manufacturing. It's not just, you know, putting together, you know, an IoT device, a phone, an EV, you know, you name it. I mean, it's not just putting together a product. It really is the tier two and the tier three, you know, going all the way to raw materials processing. There's one in many industries in India who have checked that box. Automotive industry is a great example today of tier, multiple tiered manufacturing supply chain. Now, the reason this is important is that there are very few countries in the world who can do this. China has done that, yes. Mexico is not so strong in this and Vietnam is definitely not able to do this. So clearly it is a fantastic opportunity for India to do this. Now, the third one in this Atman-Urbarath framework is capital goods and I say tooling. If you don't build machines, you're never going to understand the process. If you're not going to do the testers and the instrumentation, you're never going to be able to tune your product to the right level. Now, when I came back to India 16 years ago, all of these machines were from the West. Today, they're all from the East, namely one large country. My dream and we are calling this project India Machines under Ministry of Electronics and IT. The Indian Machines project goal is to develop machines in India, much like what we started to do in 1952 with HMT, all the way to doing even semiconductor machines in India. Tooling, instrumentation, semiconductor being done in India, I think that's the goal. So you design, you're able to make it on an Indian machine and then we are creating multiple supply chains. So this is, at least in my humble personal opinion, is true Atman-Urbarath. Next slide, please. So the good news is that all of this is backed by policies. Atman-Urbarath, the PLI scheme really is promoting this. Next slide, Meena. So the production-linked incentive really is giving companies a fantastic leg up for first four or five years to be able to get a running start so that you balance or offset the costs of starting to make in India. And I think it is a very cleverly designed scheme done extremely well by the government. And it's really drawing a lot of attention and the commitment I've seen from the government is phenomenal. So really, this is probably one of the best enablers for Atman-Urbarath. Next slide, please. So going forward, what we do see is that we will see increased design work which will happen. I'll say integrated design work where people really look at productization. There will be large companies, there will be medium-sized companies and there will be startups who will be looking at that. There will be multiple tiered supply chain development happening which will be enabled by the government and also enabled by large and medium scale companies. And of course, my favorite is building machines in India. And this is something I did before I got into electronics 25 years ago, is building machines. And this is something which we really need to start to drive. So the good news is that I think all of these things have a good traction in India. And I really hope and aspire that Dr. Kohli's one of unfinished agenda items does see the light at the end of the tunnel at a global scale in the next 5 to 10 years. Thank you, sir, for this opportunity. Thank you, Josh. That was comprehensive and interesting. One of the questions is what you have talked about the government policies and the approaches that the government is now taking the new initiatives and so on. How do these builds, kills and expertise in this area? Is there any role for educational institutions to still do in the areas of design and so on? What kind of roadmap will you give there? I think, sir, as I said, there are three levels or three categories of employment which this industry will bring. That's clearly the high-skill design focus things where we need a whole set of sort of skilling programs which will help them be really focused and specific. The second and my favorite is actually the technical degrees, the diploma guys. I really think in manufacturing this is the core. These are the guys who are end of the day, the boys and girls are really getting their hands dirty, fixing these machines, building these machines, maintaining these machines, reprogramming these robots and whatnot. We need a different sort of skill program there and of course the millions of people who are in the associate category who come from all walks of life. How do you get them from an ungainful employment into a gainful employment? In my mind, I think for the associate category, clearly at least I feel that the telecom skill council is doing a fantastic job. I'm blessed to be a part of that council. It's headed up in a very elegant manner and I definitely see progress and opportunity there. On the top level, I think as you very well know, Mr. Lakshmi of XCognizant has pulled me into this ICT Academy. We really want to stretch the ICT Academy a little bit more. This is a great opportunity for education institutions of different geographies in India. It's a great opportunity to link up and see how do you want to train the talent of people who are doing their BEs or BTECs. I'm not saying that we should get them out of your former employer TCS, but how do we sort of get them into hardware as well? Software has been a great draw or pull, but how do we get these kids sort of geared towards hardware and sort of motivate them in that direction? I think it's going to be key. I think they're going to be very, very important. The diploma people who I think are very important. The good news is that these guys are hungry. They're very, very hungry to succeed, to learn, to improve. There are not many skill programs available. So all these three categories that are opportunities, which I think require a lot of work, companies like us. We invest a lot of time. We invest a lot of our resources there. I don't ask necessarily for government support here, but I think this is something we need to address together as opportunities where everybody can get involved. And I think it's a clear gap today because we don't need skilled people. But we had a visit from one of the top government people today and he was just sitting in the line. No, not sitting, he was standing next to the line. He was just watching one of our ladies just operate this machine. It was just automatic. He says, what does this girl studied? I said, I think you can ask her yourself. And she said, I've done B.A. Tamil literature. And so here she is operating a robot and it's possible. So people are very smart in our country and I think we should just empower them and just give them the opportunities. So I think a great question, great opportunity, a lot to do, but it can be done. Thanks George. I think you've brought out the scale that we are attempting to achieve and the proactive initiatives of the government. And hopefully we'll move towards realizing the ambition that Mr. Kohli had because basically he felt that India cannot spend its way or cannot import its way by in this revolution. It has to happen from within. Thanks a lot. Now I will now request Mr. MGPL Narayana, he is of course my ex-colleague to talk about the adult literacy program that Mr. Kohli was so passionate about. Thank you, Mahav, for inviting me to talk on this great forum. In fact, I'm glad to see so many of ex-teasers, colleagues here, some of them are my bosses. Hi everybody and good to see all of you. In fact, of my career, it happened in Hyderabad almost, you know, mostly working in cybernetics. So I moved off the closed area to Dr. Epsi Kohli. And the other areas are IEEE volunteering. That is what I did extensively by being in Hyderabad, gave an opportunity. It says, gave me an opportunity. And during a transition period from Professor Nori to, you know, to Bombay, I monitored this ALP program. That is the reason I feel I'm a little bit qualified to talk about this particular program when Mahaa asked me about it. I mentioned him that couple of years I was able to oversee this program, CSR program, when I was working in cybernetics center in TCS. These three important things, cybernetics, that is systems thinking, IEEE volunteering, and then this ALP program are very close to Dr. Kohli. So either directly or indirectly, right from I joined TCS in 1982, I was associate, you know, directly or indirectly with him. I'm very glad to say this. And thanks again Mahaa for this opportunity. I'm going to now open up the presentation from my deck here. Okay, one second. You may have to stop sharing this screen and select the screen in which your presentation is there. Okay. But first stop sharing this screen. Okay. And now in the share screen. And getting it. Yes. Mahaa, do you have his presentation? You can otherwise share it and then we can advance the. I also have. Sushant, can you please share that screen? Yeah, I'll share, sir. I think that's better. Yeah, it is there now. I've shared. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you, Sushant. This is the one. CBFL in short is computer based functional literacy. I'm going to talk about the design and implementation of the same. But before that, I want to introduce a little bit on this program. So when you hear. Sushant, please mute yourself. So when you hear such statements like I can read newspapers and I can do my business well expressed by newly turned in illiterate literate adults coming out of CVL program. It's reassuring as these people are empowered to conduct normal social life with self respect and pride. These adults are originally illiterates, but can speak their language, the native language. These adults feel reading is worthwhile and hence they feel they are worthwhile to in a society they are living in. The idea of computer computerized program to tackle the India's low latency rates for the brainchild of former deputy chairman of TCS Dr. F. C. Coley. His pioneering work in LPM that making illiterate person in 45 hours instead of traditional 200 to 300 hours of classroom learning has won several acclards and adopted across geographies within and outside India. A pilot train was conducted in 2000. 2000 in March 2000 under position a village in a community hall from 15 learners who participated at that point of time of successful run it resulted now over a million people over this period have been passed to this literacy program. At a cost of $6 to $7 per learner, the individual acquires a 700 word vocabulary enough to enable people reading signboards on bus straight documents or government advertisements or bulletins, and even reading newspapers in their own native language besides helping their child in their school work. In 1988 UN report said that there is one third of the people in India who are illiterates right across the globe. If you look at it one third of this thing and census 2011 census said that 26% of the people are illiterate in India and just improved a little bit. Now it is 22 after 10 years. That is illiteracy. It was estimated that it would take another 30 years to reach the 90% literate. Sorry to interrupt. I guess you are seeing your slide at your desktop, but I'm not changing the slides. So you'll need to tell me where to change. No, you don't need to change. I'll tell you. Okay. Sorry. No problem. Go back to slide. So in nutshell, CBFL program is a developed with the animated graphics and why so was delivered in a PC format for as an info infotainment. Experts found that puppet theater model is the best suited for the folklore and traditional forms of entertainment in villages, because most of the illiterates are coming from villages. The CBFL is one of the first ever five patents granted to the company. The following presentation looks at the key concepts of human cognition and language and its cybernetics seen from the point of view of illiterate adults preparing to learn a language. The theory suggests that the language is the basis for learning which supports further activities like reading and writing and can be argued further that it supports logic reasoning and, you know, reflective thinking and whatnot. Can you go to the next slide please. So there are theories and approaches that are put forward here. So, next slide. Yeah, this is fine. Human beings are blessed with the thoughts triggered by sensations and feelings from the memory, which are originally formless, but then come out as having sound characteristics, which are known as sounds of thought guided by one's language. And other illiterates requires a different philosophy or methodology from the school going children in terms of the cognition levels that they have and also besides the shorter time period of attention that they have because of their work radius or whatever it is. Through this understanding of human behavior and the human brain processes, it is believed that the proper application of cybernetics learning can be beneficial to the problem solving. So Dr. Coley always felt systems approach is the right way for engineering solutions, particularly when it comes to the societal ones. Next slide please. So here is a cognitive process discussed here in brief is the act of becoming conscious of something and so knowing about it by various means, direct indirect and inference. The essence here is consciousness. Man is a mental being, thinker, and conceptualizes everything according to Professor P. Muthi, who is one of the co-inventor in this particular initiative. He was also my mentor in cybernetics. He stated that the mass cognition and intelligence are dependent on the level of consciousness from physical to spiritual. So direct means the regression of the graphic patterns. Then the next one is indirect means the association with the sound patterns of these through the scripted words. You can see the sound is being put in there. Next slide please. So the third model is the inference one. Here the person is able to completely comprehend this spoken word but is unaware of recognizing the graphic patterns on the script of this spoken word. By such combination of visualization by graphic patterns, verbalization of sound patterns and language and structures and cognition of the meaning, reading skill of a cognitive process, cognitive process which is wired into the memory and also in the feedback loops. The next slide please. Here we talk about how the short term memory initially gets into the long term memory in terms of the retention of the alphabets and words. In this approach, the learning system comprises of a personal computer to display visual elements, graphic patterns, introducing pictures, words, letters and alphabets and their associated sound patterns. Illiterates who are native speakers in the language being learned are the principal part in this learning process. Specificated by Triner, we also call them Prayarak, whose role is to operate the PC and who receives the learning feedback from the participants. A visual element is displayed on the screen with associated script which is called the graphic pattern of the language being learned and the corresponding verbalization of the recorded sound of the script is also shown. The adult correlates the sound patterns with the graphic pattern which forms into the adult short short memory, short term memory. Now the adult has to require to learn the alphabet. So by slowly desegregating, you get to the alphabet level and again aggregating, you will get to learn the new words. That is the way you increase the corpus of the words and alphabets of the individual. With repeated practice of this mode of learning, the adult develops long term memory of alphabets, letters, that is retention. Get to the next slide. Here is the cybernetics in action is of the cognition in the language learning. You can see that box actually which is the one which is facilitating the recognition, recall and retention. It is a learning process through a feedback mechanism actually is happening. Thus by identifying incomprehensive input to comprehensive one, the learner is ready for the next learning process through practice. That is recognition, recall and retention and feedback. There is an external correction is also applied here by way of those tracks and transition from short term memory to the long term one. Next slide please. Here is the environment which is set up schematically. This is displayed here. The NLMs coming from, you know, government of India with the lesson scripts and this thing and these are converted into e-primers. So in this model, the core concepts to be conveyed are delivered by using reasoning technologies like case-based and rule-based and model-based to support the instruction as well as the assessment and feedback. Case-based actually is used, you know, to derive new words from the existing world words while the rule-based is the set of rules to create those rules of inference. Visual elements are used to introduce words, letters and their associated sounds and instructions are delivered with sound elements. Storyboard, puppets, these are the things that are used, you know, to create the kind of images and sound which are actually grasped by the learner. And then he actually replies it back and then that, you know, the product is the one who actually corrects this thing by way of that feedback and hence this thing is taken care. So by way of this repeated things, you know, this is what is happening that over a period of time they actually get that corpus of set of words actually. The next slide please. Here is a comparative chart how this particular CBFL is faring over the conventional modes of teaching. There you can see that when there is an instruction led, you know, there is less motivation and there are only, it takes 300 hours, you know, to complete this and whatnot. So you can see the relative comparison and how well the CBFL method is scoring over this, you know, with the multimedia in action. And it takes towards the end, you can see that it takes 5 to 7 years to make the entire country literate whereas it takes, you know, so many years, you know, maybe 30 years to make the country literate by the conventional way. Next slide please. So the company, here are the some of the, you know, products or packages that are there actually. In fact, it is right to say these are the packages. They are not products, that means they are not for sale or anything like that. These are given for free for the people who to run with this by the company. The company saw itself as a technology provider actually. And giving off its core competency and developing the package, undertaking the field work only to provide the, you know, the technology. But appreciating the fact that they have to be get associated with the government officials, NGOs and state resource officials. The program is also operational in, you know, some of the jails in India, maybe 70,000 people also I was told they were, they became illiterate, people became illiterate. Next slide please. In total, there are nine languages, three of them and six of them are here. And these are their Indian languages where the, you know, when it's fully implemented that you can see that it covers a lot of India for the literacy and all. So earlier in 2010, in fact, that is the time I was associated with this particular program. There is a program launched by the government by name Sakshar Bharat. Actually, the idea is that in two years time they want to make 70 million people illiterate. So that way overall they will have some 80% illiterate people in India. This is started by National Literacy Mission Authority as well as state resources centers at the state level. In fact, TCS operated in a campus more camp mode for this particular thing as directed by them around 900 people were trained in three states or nine camps actually. And there is a nationalist of open schooling which has come forward to do the evaluation test and they certified that the success of the CBFL program because it has got less dropouts. And excellent ratings in terms of year ratings, excellent ratings they got the all the leadness. However, they further wants to validate with taking some more centers, you know, camps and whatnot that is called Sakshar Bharat scheme that was running that point of time by the way. Okay, next slide please. Here are the four languages that I have shown here. Two of them are in the initiative of UNDP that is the Arabic and Spanish and the two other languages are African languages, Sotho and Moray. The Sotho is the one which is from South Africa. Actually, in fact, the TCS team discovered that there are several languages in South Africa, you know, some of them do not have script at all actually many of them do not have the script. And however, there are phonetic sounds identified and then about 40 phonetic words, I mean, letters for identified to develop a language script language for Sotho, which was a great success in South Africa. And similarly, the Moray, in fact, that is the one which happened during my time those people came from Burkina Paso, the language is Moray. And in fact, what they have is the real initiative for them is that the they don't get the microloans unless they are certified to read by way of this program, other literacy program. So even now during pandemic time also I was told that these people took a lot of interest in terms of making themselves literate. And then there is a nationwide plan to deploy this, you know, Moray language, I mean, other literacy program in that country. Next slide please. So these are some of the field pictures you can see that you know, parrots, how they are handling it. And there is a picture here from one of the jail. In fact, I went to one in Pune also just to talk to them. With my mentor, Professor P. Anmurti. And these are the more, you know, things being done in African country. So the next slide please. So these are some of the references I want to cite here. And we published a couple of papers in IEEE. Myself and Azmat Ali, in fact, he is very active. Azmat Ali is a colleague in TCS. He is there for the last 13 years working in this area and is a very field oriented after having developed all the technology that is there. So in conclusion, next slide. So it is estimated that it will take now 2016 for the universal literacy at the current rate of doing whatever we are doing actually. Not through the CSR initiative, but otherwise in the country. With the population swelling in millions, it is always the moving target, you know, illiteracy is debilitating in conducting normal life and it can be said that let the problem be anything, the solution is always literacy. And then we for sure have proven technology solution pioneered by Dr. Coley to address the need. And then briefly to say that is a pioneering contribution to mankind will live forever as a legacy. I wish his technological solution be adopted by the government to accelerate the literacy rate in our country and make India sub-sharp. Which means that literate India. And again, thank you very much for all the opportunities. Sorry for the initial hitch actually. I was I opened too many files looks like and thanks. Thanks. Thank you, MGPL for this comprehensive coverage. Just one question. Do you know the scale it has achieved in India? Any terms of numbers that we have managed to make people literate over this period? Yeah, there are different parameters. This can be measured actually initially it was slow. By the time 2009, we tried with this program, 1,40,000 or so. In the next year, we tried 1,00,000. That means by 2010, we tried something like 2.5 lakhs. But from then to now, we trained 7.5 lakhs, more than 7.5. Overall, we tried something like more than 10 lakhs, 1 million. It's going on because you see the dependencies to do with the kind of priorities that are there actually. So that is about the numbers. And the vocabulary can be achieved up to 600 to 700 by way of 45 hour trainings spread over 3 to 4 months. And even the conventional one takes 6 to 18 months and that too they take something like 300 hours that we already said. Again, the rate at which people can read the newspapers can vary anything between 12 minutes, I mean 12 words per minute to something like 35 words per minute depending on. But I'm very glad myself I have seen in Anaj Kuram here in close to Hyderabad. I went there beginning of the inauguration time event to start the program and also I went there after 30 days because it was bit intense program. They did over a period of 2 hours per day. These are all mostly adults only of course 15 plus you know some of them could be school dropouts. But I have seen that the kind of pride that they were having in their eyes. They were able to read what is written on their wall saying that if you don't get in 15 days please contact this number. They need to get some support or welfare from the government. This is what is required so they are empowered to read all that and then take the charge of their life. So that is what I noticed. So these are some of the figures that I know of. Thank you. Thank you. That was very good. This is one of the programs that I think we need to continue to keep pushing at various levels and so on in order to make it a literate bar. Now let me turn to the third speaker today, which is the important area of Indian language computing. May I request Mr. Rajiv Sangal to, Professor Rajiv Sangal to make the presentation. Yeah, thank you Mr. Malingam. I'm honored to be invited to talk about this, about language computing, Indian language computing. I'll just share my screen. It takes a minute. Yeah, I'm having a little, it's taking a little time because it should come now. Yeah, are you able to see the screen? Yeah, we are. Okay, the only problem is I can't see the screen, shared screen. So let me just open the local window where I can see this screen. Yeah, the shared screen I can't see on my computer screen. One minute. I think from slide rule days to log 232 Excel, now you are able to learn Zoom skills also. Yes, yes. It's just machine becomes very slow while you are setting it up. That's my experience. So one clicks and then one waits. So it has come. Can you see the screen? Yes, we can. Please go ahead. Yes. Thank you. So I'll talk about Indian language computing. And let me say a few words about Dr. Kohli, the visionary. I got acquainted with him a long time back and then slowly got to know him and really looked upon him as a leader and man with ideas. And he was always thinking about, you know, what we can do to solve the problems of India. And he believed that we have to solve Indian problems by working on them as engineers and use technology. Of course, he had strong views on many subjects. He articulated them very boldly, very forthrightly. But he also gave us if you wanted to discuss anything. And that was the part really I liked. He belonged to a generation that believed that India should solve its problems through hard work and through innovation. The areas that are well known and besides the area of software and electric power, he worked, he was associated with education. The first computer science degree program was started in 1961 at Kanpur. He supported it. He helped in setting it up in hiring, in selecting faculty and so on. And 40 years later, I'm sure he has done many things in between, but 40 years later when he became the chairman of the board of governors of College of Engineering, Pune, he transformed that institution and he connected education with practice. So our colleges, earlier erstwhile well known colleges, he made sure that they connect with practice. The education is with real life laboratories and so on. His second aspect, which I heard many times from him and on which we emphasize the need to work on hardware. He said software alone is not enough. We should must work on hardware also. India must produce its own hardware. He believed in research, even when the research was highly theoretical, very little connection with practices, current practices, for example, the conference on foundation of software technology and theoretical computer science. So he supported that and TRDDC Pune, which did a very good work in doing all this with Professor Nori. He was always behind this support. Now, about besides this, that was also the time I got connected with him much more. One was of course literacy and that has already been talked about. The second thing that he mentioned to me, this was more like 2012 or 2011. So he said that he always called me single. He said single. Why don't you work on language translation for judiciary? Do you know that from lower courts to higher courts, from district court, let's say to High Court and Supreme Court, all the documents which are in local languages, regional languages, in higher court, they have to be made available in English. And this is one cause of delays in our judiciary. So he said, why don't you work from Indian languages to English? And I've been working in machine translation all my life, last 40 years. I said yes. And with several colleagues, in fact, I asked several of my colleagues to take up this particular work specifically for judiciary. And this work indeed got taken up. And there are some good results. He also talked about this was, I think around 2015 or 16. He said, no, we must design programming languages, which are based on common people should be able to not only use computers. They should also be able to learn programming. They should be able to program computers. He was always very farsighted. And today I see as the smartphone is in everybody's pocket, now that's a computer, then somebody who knows programming, hopefully will be able to do things. But this will require, I think, a redesign of interfaces. So we want smartphones that make people smart, smartphones that make people dumb. So the use should be easy. Simple things should be simple, but hard things should be possible by means of learning how to let me use the word to grant them. And this will work only if it's available in people's local languages. Now, outline of my talk, why Indian languages and translation. I'll talk a little bit about the language technologies, the data of technology and its readiness today, and then about commercialization of this technology. So let me start right away. So you see there are probably the smart devices are in the hands of a man today. So believe that they are of the order of 350 million smartphones. So which are reaching virtually every household. So these phones allow access to the internet, where the whole lot of material is there. But unfortunately, the content is in English and content access is needed in our own languages. If you look at it as an example of education, more than ever before, education has expanded. Many students who are not proficient in English and hard years in Indian languages are largely missing. So these students find it difficult. If I take the example of courseware, NPTEL, which are also now being put on Swayam, already put in Swayam. So there are video lectures available, excellent material, one of the best in the world, but it is all in English. And Ministry of Education, our erstwhile MHRD estimates that there are 25 lakh users currently. This is my figures are about a year old. However, in Indian languages, there will be 1 crore users. There will be 10 million users. After pandemic, I think these numbers have skyrocketed by only higher education, even for school education. If you have such devices for translation, speech-to-speech translation, then the material can also be available in Indian languages such as TED lectures. And school education, as I mentioned, has suddenly become online. So even here, there is a lot of scope for moving forward. Now the main difficulty students face in e-courseware for higher education is that they do not understand spoken English. Even those who have learned to read, they say, find it difficult to understand what professor is saying. So therefore, we chose the task, and this was a government of India, the Prime Minister's Council for Science, Technology and Innovation that approached me and said, what can we do here? And I remember Mr. Kohli and so they said, how can we build systems? How can we develop technology that can translate from English to Indian languages? Incidentally, the work from Indian languages to English had already started with the judiciary. So this task was taken up. And now the national language translation mission has been launched with the current budget which was placed in the Luxaba month ago. So let me move forward. So let us see the technologies that are involved through the above task. What are the technologies that are already available? How can we make use of them right away? And what new technology needs to be developed? So if you look at the technologies that are already there, there is automatic speech recognition. This is available certainly for English. Our source language in this example is English, let's say. And this will produce text in English, text in language L1. Then there is machine translation which goes from text to text. So this can translate from English to Hindi, English to Marathi, Tamil, Bangalore, etc. Of course, one can go from English to any one Indian language and then we can go from that Indian language or Indian languages. It turns out that the task is a little easier. Then finally, the text that is produced could be displayed as subtitles or it could be dubbed. So one can have text to speech with surprisingly good quality for Indian languages as well. So we can make use of that technology. After doing this, one can watch the NPTEL lecture given by an IIT professor in the area of rocket design and one can hear him or her speaking in Tamil in Bengali or whatever. Now, I'm just waiting for the slide to... So if you look at this now, the first task which I had displayed was transcribe the spoken English into text form. This is like a dictation. Then second, display subtitles in English itself because some people can read subtitles in English itself. This is what the initial attempt was that if this can be done but surely this is far from satisfactory, the real need is for translation. To translate, let us say from English to Hindi and then Hindi to all the other Indian languages to begin with 10 other Indian languages and then all the remaining 21 official languages and then finally dubbing in the Indian languages. Now, if you look at the task, three of them can be required human intervention for good quality. So I'm written semi-automatically. The final task is actually automatic, dub in Indian languages. And here, this would be the manual intervention in post-editing, et cetera. Now, if you look at this pipeline again, if you want to not be limited to existing technology but to develop the technology with additional power, then we have to put prosody information because such a system from speech to speech machine translation does not exist anywhere in the world today in any great use. While each of the three component technologies are somewhat in use and certainly speech recognition, they are in use, machine translation, maybe they are not earning money but they are being used by common people at times. So here, our task is, let's say this example is lecture dubbing. So one will have put in special things about prosody. Prosody is intonation, you know, ups and downs, the way you emphasize. You might be repeating things, those have to be handled. You might say, ah, now go to be cleaned and this can be done by machine and certainly with human editing, post-editing. So this prosody gets marked up which is then gets used in text to text, machine translation and then finally, the prosody is transferred to the target language. So this is the new elements that will have to be built and with the launch of the mission, work has started on existing technology, putting it together as well as developing the newer technology which will be good for translation. So let me tell you a bit about the status and the readiness of technology. So the automatic machine translation English to Indian languages. The languages are very different. Grammatical structures are different. So the quality of translation is low. So certainly it will require human editing. Among Indian languages, languages are similar. Quality of translation is higher. So less editing is required. It still requires editing. On the speech side, speech to text, ASR, automatic speech recognition, systems having them for dictation, but here now we want to produce not just text but rich text, text which has prosody information, ups and downs and so on. So, but as far as the raw dictation is concerned, good results have been reached in the current technology. The current technology starts failing or starts giving a lot of errors the moment you go to a domain. So if you say I want to translate lectures in rocket design or lectures in a chemical plant design, suddenly you will find that the rate for recognition has gone down. Errors have gone up tremendously. So one of the things that we would have to do is to incorporate these elements about domain, about prosody, about discourse so that the quality goes up and the errors go down. Now, if you want to use this technology for commercialization because that is also the aim of the language translation vision launched by the government. So the salient features, as I was mentioning, human-aided transcription and human-aided post-editing of the machine output. So this would remove errors through human intervention and the whole idea is that as technology progresses, the post-editing requirements, the error correction goes down because the quality goes up. So the way we sort of designed the language translation vision is to develop technology that can be customized to domain. The technology itself, we want to make it neutral. It should be able to handle any domain general purpose language so it can be customized. Once you say, no, I want, I'm doing mechanical engineering or I'm doing psychology or banking or whatever. So this can be customized. And second aspect, the cost of human post-editing should keep reducing. And the goal that is set for this technology is two to ten time productivity. In three years, we hope to produce productivity of two to three times for human translators. So if a human translator could produce one page in one hour, he would be able to produce three pages in an hour. And over a period of seven years, I would say we should be able to produce ten time productivity. So all the visibility goes up. Some day might be areas where you may say, oh, I'm ready to live with the errors. Please give it to me online while the system is on. However, for this, we need a close coupling between system customization and commercialization. So let me come to that aspect. So there is a special role of startups for doing all this. So first of all, what are the kinds of services? One is translation as a service, where you provide good quality tools supplying for translation agencies, publication industry. You want companies to come up to become core developers of technology tools and support from academic institutions and government. Even the core technology, we want to have open contests or challenge rounds by which startups can come and so also young people who might be in college and who want to compete and produce either a specific part of the technology or even the whole technology. So for doing this, by doing this we hope the best will come forward and as new things get discovered, they become known and they become transferred. They get transferred to other people. So over a period of just a few years, we will have better quality technology. Now, today in machine learning, data is the key. Data is the oil, as they say. The machines will run provided you have petrol or today I can say if you have solar power. So similarly, machine learning will be there if you have data. So corpora, language corpora is the key. So creation of language corpora for all Indian languages themselves to begin with for 11 Indian languages, including Hindi, of course. So this needs to be done and again, this can be a task which can be carried out by our startups who then slowly learn this new technology and become developers of the technology itself, the code technology itself, or a whole set of tools that are required. And these are to be facilitated by what are called as centers of excellence located in the tech transfer centers of let's say the IITs and the IITs. So that gets developed, gets transferred to the... And this center then transfers this technology does hand-holding of companies, startups, established companies, whoever, and this technology gets transferred. So the whole idea is to build this ecosystem and there will be, of course, a whole lot of new areas, culture, tourism. I had mentioned education as an example. So interpretation of speech for tourists, governance and information dissemination, judiciary, traditional knowledge and language learning in school all using language technology. So in conclusion, this is an unprecedented opportunity where there is an acute need. Users are demanding content. This demand is coming from bottom up. This is not an artificial demand. This is there. And technology readiness level is also there. So if you look at these two, this means that there is space now for market. So on one hand, technology development can be in R&D and this can then be transferred. So then there can be a large... There is an industry which can come up for taking this technology and transferring. So this is a rare combination occurring at this time and it's the right time to take this work. I've talked about technology development, customization, improvement. Now what about the demand catalyzed? There is a need to catalyze the demand and government is actively involved again in this. So translate government websites for all ministries. Translate online content, particularly in education, in science and technology. Of course, there is enough work in private domain once the market starts working in this area. Subtracting companies, developing companies in this area who provide translation services using machine translation. Then there might be companies which provide tools and so on. Partnering with state governments is critical language specific mission in each state. And there is also an ambitious plan for doing crowd sourcing to create Indian language content. And this content will again be used as data for machine learning. So government... At this time government has recognized the need and already put an outlay of 500 crores for three years. So coming back to Shri Kohli, as I was saying, come to a generation that said India can do it. Of course, it needs hard work, but so what? Roll up your sleeves and work. But use your brains, use technology, use innovation. So I think our true homage to him would mean working on his unfinished agenda. Hardware, language translation, programming language based on Indian languages. This is one thing that he mentioned which still remains an unfinished work which hasn't started even perhaps. So this area needs to be looked at. And literacy is of course there. I thought literacy is now slowly going away but if you can speed it up, that will be very good. So our true homage to Shri Kohli would be to take up work that he desired and move forward in the path that he has shown. Thank you. Thank you very much for the comprehensive coverage, technology, development of the ecosystem and so on. There is only one question. I mean, there are a few comments and so on but one question was with regard to the pushes really coming from the government in terms of taking this forward. Is there any push that's coming from the private organization? You have talked about the startups and so on from private but is the push to develop this technology to make it useful? Yes. The push has really come from common people I would say. So there are people who endlessly send emails to government, to IITs. Please make your NPTEL content available in Indian languages. I think similar is the story in other areas. From industry, the industry which does translation currently uses very little computer based tools so that industry slowly now learning that industry will also demand these tools. The area would grow. My hope if I can put before you, my fond hope is that through crowdsourcing we will create an army of translators, 100,000 translators covering our languages and these will be young people who will translate Wikipedia, they will translate all kinds of material on the net and as they do it, they become proficient in use of these machine tools, machine-aided translation tools and then they would find work in this area. So as they graduate, they will say I want to become a translator who uses computer based tools. So there is a lot of scope from that point of view. Thank you very much. I think we are coming towards the end of this. I will try to see if I can play Mrs. Kohli's video. She had sent a video. We had of course, although she had told me that she wanted that video played first so that we can judge whether the unfinished work is being shared by all the speakers in the same fashion but in any case, I think now we will see whether we can look at that to see whether there are still questions that need to get answered one minute. I'll figure out whether I can share this screen. If I can do that very quickly, I'll do that. I'm not able to get that done at this time. We will probably put it in our recording later on and add that. For some reason, I'm not able to get that played at this point in time. So with that, I would like to conclude this and request... Do you want me to play it? Do you want me to play from here? Yeah, can you do that? You may have to give control to him. Oh, I think he... Yeah. I need to be allowed to share screen. Sushant, can you organize that? Yes, sir. Is it working? Yeah, not shared. There is a share button on the bottom. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's not highlighting for some reason. Okay. You want to try it? You have also this? Yeah. Can I put it to the... Is my screen seen by any chance? Tom? You have to share, sir. You have to share your screen. Yeah. There is a button there, share screen. Yeah. So you say share window. Yeah, now it has come. Yeah, share screen with an arrow. Okay, thank you. Yeah. Yeah, you visual must participate as a citizen of the society. We live in. It took special interest in the education of children, of employees and staff members, both are not electric and DCS. He kept them with their schools, admissions and whatever other thing. Over and above the children, he was concerned about adults who had missed the bus, but not gone to school and had not got an education. He realized that some people must be missing the education. So therefore he felt very strongly that no one should be handed out. He devised and started working on computer based adult literacy so that both women and men would have the basic knowledge and are able to marry their lives without being a burden. And they became part of the society. He ensured that women were also participating in this program, therefore encouraged flexible timings for adult literacy. There were women who attended to their chores and even attended classes carrying their suckling babies. He took adult literacy to other developing countries, such as South Africa, Sri Lanka and others. Once on a trip to South Africa, we went to a school where adult literacy classes were being held. At that school, we visited a 44-year-old South African lady. She told me that she was a mother of seven children and each one of them made her do errands for them. But when she wanted money, they would postpone and some protects the other, keep on postponing giving her the money. However, now she has been taking the adult literacy classes and now I can read and write. I put money in the bank when I want to and I take out money from the bank when I want to. I still do errands for my children because I am a mother. But now my children also respect me and they ask me to lend them some money. This was a very happy experience that we learned from this lady. Another incident he used to port was that when a local election was taking place, the candidate made number of promises such as providing uninterrupted supply of water, repairs of roads, etc., etc. At the end of the lecture, a few women went up to the gentleman and said, Sir, please write all this down as now we can read and so if we have a problem and we will come back to you and you will solve our problem. The work of the adult literacy was handed over to the literacy mission. He was all the time on the lookout for the country's problems and what role could be played to solve those problems by using education and information technology in various fields. He developed an interest in the economy and agriculture so that the country was successful in food production. He learned from California many of the techniques and tips on what methods should be employed where the experiment was carried on in some of the agriculture institutes in Chennai and they got very good results, the increased production than what they were getting earlier. To feed the love of his country was paramount. That is why when he returned to India from USA, he declined the offer of jobs both from MIT and General Electric as he wanted to be of service to his own country. He appreciated that there are a number of languages in the country and this richness in country should be encouraged rather than limiting it to two to three languages. Therefore, he laid emphasis on use of computers to speak Indian languages. This one he kept on continuously saying, asking the manufacturers to produce computers in Indian languages. As he said, without that, the people cannot learn, cannot cover all the sectors of society. It would be a pity if all this work is left halfway as it was his passion for the country which could stand on top of the world. In the number of times he was pulled in by many countries and organizations on lucrative benefits, but he remained a patriot and loyal to his country who his country would be carrying out all this work. Thank you. Thank you, Mrs. Kohli. That was truly a great reminiscence and truly very inspiring and I'm glad that we played it towards the end because it seems to be leaving the right kind of message as we conclude this program. May I now request Professor Vartek to conclude the program? Thank you, ma'am. I begin first of all by thanking Kohli madam to personally appear on this webinar and share the memories of the unfinished task in spite of her being in difficult times. It was very great, madam. Thank you so much. I next thank the three great speakers, Josh, our Narayana and my very good friend Rajiv Singhal for sparing their time and trying to tell us about these important issues in such a short time. Perhaps they would require a day-long seminar each but I'm thankful to them for having spared their time for this. Next, I would like to thank so many elders of the CSI who helped create the framework for this webinar on this occasion. More particularly, I am thankful to Sri Mahalingam who led the effort right from the beginning supported by several of our colleagues. And last but not the least, I am delighted to thank all the CSI veterans who have joined us many on the Zoom link and many more on the YouTube live. Let us conclude this program by committing that we shall all work through the Computer Society of India and through other government and other mechanisms to try and complete this great agenda that the great man left behind for us. Thank you so much. Thank you one and all. I will create a recording of this and post the link for those who wish to see the complete recording. Otherwise, the YouTube live recording will be available in any case. Thank you so much. I conclude this webinar and hope that I shall see more of such webinars in coming months and years where important things are discussed. Thank you. I declare the event closed. Sushant may please stop recording. I request all the kind participants to check out please.