 Hi everyone, this meeting is being recorded. It's Angela. Hey. Hi. I got carried away baking chocolate chip cookies. Oh My goodness. I love your chocolate chip cookies. Thank you There'll be some at the gallery opening tomorrow for Jim Barnhill stuff in town hall So there are tons of people in the attendee room and I'm going to make Anna the co-host and Shawnee the host mm-hmm and We can ask people to raise their hands and we can bring them in and promote them as panelists if you'd like Yeah, that would be great. So Adrienne and Alice and Bob and Erica and George and John if you'd like to come into the panelists room that means that you will be seen on the zoom recording and You will be able to speak without raising your hand Although I'm not setting the rules for this district. We need and that's up to your count to our our counselors Yeah, you always can keep your camera off and then you don't typically will your one show up because your camera's off. Hi, Bob Hey, Bob. Welcome. I look so red in this Lighting So again, if you're in the attendee room and you'd like to come into the panelists room Just raise your hand and one of the counselors will bring you in. Oh Great Actually, we would love for Everyone to just come in and you can always leave your camera off because that way, you know, this this is an Opportunity for us to have honest conversations to really be able to see each other and listen and talk to each other So I really would love for everyone to just join us in if you're comfortable Thank you. I see a few more hands coming up And again, we've already pressed record on this So this meeting will be uploaded to the town of Amherst YouTube channel and at this time I would like to recognize our two counselors from District 5 Anna and Shalini and Turn this meeting over to them Thank you, Angela. Sure much So John and Adrienne I sent you panelist requests That would if you'll have to Select to join as a panelist if you'd like to do that And there we go, okay. Hi everybody Happy Day the week is it? It's Thursday. Happy Thursday. I think Shalini and I are both coming from like long long meetings. And so we are I guess I'll speak for myself. I'm a little bit like, okay. Here we are But thank you all so much for for joining us today And I also want to take a minute one to thank Angela for setting this up for us But two to also welcome counselor elect Bob Hegner who will be serving with me in the coming term So thank you Bob for preemptively for your service and I also want to take a moment I know I just grabbed the microphone because I also really want to take a moment to thank Shalini for her service The past two terms on the council I think we've we've all learned a lot from you and have really appreciated your your approach in your Your input throughout these these past gosh five years, which is wild. Well, I've only been there for two of them I watched the first third So yeah, thank you Shalini for that and I'm gonna turn it over to you to kick us off like yeah Thank you. I also want to welcome George Ryan because of oh, yeah District being divided in a way that we may have some district three Residents here. So I did and invite George Ryan and Hala as well so that everyone can meet everyone and Yeah, and again, you know, this is an informal Meeting time we have certain topics that we we put out as an agenda so that This you get to know what we're working on what's on our minds and at the same time really most importantly it's an opportunity for you to ask questions for us to go back and forth which we're not able to do in town council meetings and so We will go ahead and talk about things and again, we also want to just emphasize This is a safe space a non-judging space. So no question is a bad question and So please feel free to ask away to share your thoughts and we want your input In terms of the agenda we sort of crafted a rough agenda that I shared in the newsletter In terms of just talking about the budget process and the town manager goals if you all wanted to give input on that We just have the bond authorization for the Jones library as an agenda item if anyone has any questions about that and we actually have Anna and Bob were in the finance committee and we also have Kent who has been working really hard to generate Financial support for this project. So people have questions about any of that. We have a lot of knowledgeable people here today and We can talk about proposed You know I have proposed with zero waste Amherst and along with Alicia Walker and and Andy and Jennifer Todd the Universal Composting by a lot of anyone wants to know about that where we are and what's happening with that Plus I've initiated before I leave Proposed it's a legislative guy legislative process guide which I would love to get people's input and We also want to talk to share the vacancies and that town boards and committees if anyone is interested in knowing What are ways you can participate? Anna did you want to add to the So my my pieces today are I'm going to talk to you a bit about where we are in the budget process with and Bob I hope you'll contribute as well. Bob has served on the finance committee longer than I have so has a lot of wisdom there, right? Yeah, and And then we'll talk about the kind of some of the annual prop excuse me Navigating some lasting asthma impacts that make me start coughing randomly. So I apologize if I Start doing that, but we'll also talk about where we are in the setting the town manager goals and why that matters It's one of it. It's one of the most important things that we do honestly in my opinion on the council So we'll we'll talk through that but Johnny would it make sense to give? Do you have a spot you'd like us to start specifically? No, and I mean I think before we jump in I just want to get a sense from the people who are here Is there anything that you would really really want to hear or get clarifications or talk about? Before we get on with what we want to talk about Any burning issues that you have questions about all right We've named all of them. And so we're ready to just just jump in. Yeah, so I'm gonna just go for it then Okay, and so yeah, and since I lose P of us just raise your hand And if you have a question in the middle of what we're saying or just stop us in the time Yeah, feel free to interrupt me at any point. Um, so we are in the in the I'd say beginning to mid stages of a couple really important processes for how we plan for the future of our town The first is setting the goals for the town manager This is something the council does every year and these goals really help us to they're the policy goals for the town manager as you know the town council is the legislative branch of our government and so We don't set necessarily like executive department goals But we think about what policies we would need the town manager Support and where we'd like to see action from him in the coming year Um in the past This has been a long process this year It will continue to be a long process and as we're still a relatively new form of government We're still also trying to figure out. What is the best way to do this? So our governance committee go well is is dealing with this right now in terms of how do we make sure these goals are Broad enough that we have flexibility to address things that pop up during the year things come up all the time And if we set really prescriptive goals for the town manager that fill up his entire calendar and bandwidth We're not giving any latitude for something that might be important to do But we didn't know about a year ahead of time. So Goal right now is navigating this kind of where do we zoom in where do we zoom out? How do we make sure that we're being specific so that we have things that we can say yes You did this because we use the goals to Write the town manager evaluation So how do we be specific enough that there are you know if there are specific things that we want done that they are able To be reflected in that but broad enough that we give ourselves some flexibility in terms of addressing things as they come Excuse me, so that's goals. I'm going to pause there to see if any clarifying questions come up The second piece that we are delving into is the budget cycle budget cycle never ends, right? There's always something throughout the year but the part of the process that we're at right now is developing the financial guidelines and Similar to the goals. This is essentially the really big picture look at how we want our money to be spent. So for example Typically, we've always done the same increase percentage increase for each department Is that something we're going to continue this year likely the answer to that question is going to be yes But it's it's important to discuss it every year because you never know when there's going to be an emergent need and To that end as we're creating these financial guidelines. We'll also meet. We have a four towns meeting coming out and that will be With the with the area towns to think about the services that we share for example the regional schools What are the the budgetary needs there as we kind of have to fold in all of these different elements into our budget process? So the budget guidelines I'm going to say it's a fascinating it's a fascinating read, but I recognize that my definition of fascinating doesn't always translate to other peoples So it really does help support and give that guidance on the to the town manager on what we want the budget to look like Please note there are a couple really important things to know about the town council's role in the budget We can't tell the town manager to direct a specific amount of funds to this program, right? That's not our role. Um, our role is to say these are our priority areas He needs to give us about we want a balanced budget. That's what we want him to give to us legally We cannot move we cannot reallocate or add money within the budget that the town manager eventually Does give to us we can cut but we can't say where that cut money would go And so the financial guidelines are are really critical because they are our chance to say, you know We see this emergent need. Um, for example recently a really emergent need for us has been Has been infrastructure, right? We know that we know that both capital projects and roads and sidewalks need There's deferred maintenance. And so that's been something that's been reflected in our budget guidelines Um financial guidelines. Sorry. I'm using those interchangeably. So that's the that's sort of the gist of it Um, this is a really great time to give input to us Your counselors to the town manager on where you'd like to see the budget go It's developed over the course of the year and um, Ultimately, we'll come back to the next council in may Uh, yeah in may Um 2024 Yeah, I think I'll pause there because I know it's a lot of information But thinking about this as a cycle, um, that's where we're at. We also We'll be confirming the same tax rates, uh, or that we have had for the past Many many years, which is that we have the same commercial and residential tax rates So we're navigating things like that which is also impacts our budget obviously as we go forward Anna, did you want to share the timeline? I have it open in front of me. Um, sure. Could you do my Thank you So this gives a glimpse at what the cycle looks like It's not necessarily organized into the cycle But it gives you an idea of where we're at at different points in the in the process So we are, uh, currently in the middle of the CPA The CPA proposal process so community preservation act for those who aren't familiar It's a pretty incredible, um opt-in law that towns adopted. We adopted it and um It gives funding for specific areas of town that Might need some support and might not otherwise have those avenues for example historic preservation recreation and open space And affordable housing are all in there As as categories I served on the CPA committee for a while 10 out of 10 would recommend They do have resident member spots. So if you're looking for a way to engage that's personally a favorite um The where we're at now is that we've begun the budget guidelines development and we've had the public forum on the budget Um, but we are going to then adopt those guidelines and this basically is saying to the town manager Here's the here's the rails create your budget within those please Um, and he's got the next five months to to um to create something and bring it back We will vote on CPA prior to that um prior to that budget The other really important part of this is the joint capital planning committee, which will begin meeting in the spring This is a council committee as well as Include also includes members from the jones library board of trustees and the school committee And the this committee really is focusing on the capital needs of the town So also a really fascinating committee to pay attention to and the reason I wanted to highlight it is that The joint capital planning committee also has a process for resident requests And it's one that we've been really working on Shawn Mangano our former finance director and I worked pretty closely on Developing a better process for these resident proposals um Folks can submit individual proposals for capital needs that they see as pressing for the town Um, typically there's a smaller uh smaller needs not so small I was reminded when I was before I was a counselor that Me wanted to conduct chairs and picnic tables on the on fiddler's green on the south armors common was too small Um, but I would just like to point out. They are now there. So I'm pleased with that So something a little bit bigger than that. Um in the past folks have submitted Uh resident funding requests for things like sidewalk repairs Um or or other building repairs So keep an eye on that if there is a capital need that you see That isn't necessarily reflected, but that you believe the community would would be in support of Um, so yeah, the the kind of the rest of this sort of flows in a pretty logical way, right? We we receive the library budgets and the school budgets Um, and we we do hearings on all of those but ultimately not After the the guidelines happen. We kind of Give the town manager the time until spring to develop the budget in the spring. It starts to hit pretty heavy I'm not going to go into depth on that necessarily right now because we'll have other district meetings where we can but Right now is is a really good time to give input on those budget guidelines Shalini, I think that's all for me right now. If there are any questions. I'm happy to take them Adrienne, I'm going to try to Oh bob hatches. Yeah, I just wanted to I'm yeah, I just wanted to add a couple of things to what what ana said and I think ana did a great job of summarizing a very complicated process But one of the principles that we as the finance committee have adopted Is that we will not We will not use overrides to fund the operations of the town So a lot of towns around will say, oh, we need more money. So they're gonna we'll do we'll do a An override and they'll raise the taxes a certain amount of you know Five percent six percent in one year and then it's two and a half percent after that We've decided that we will live within the two and a half percent plus growth And try to manage within that budget Now we did when we went for the school We did that as a debt exclusion Which means that your base Rate of taxation didn't change. It was a sort of a You know a Supplemental add-on if you will that you will will will all pay for 23 20 25 years But it doesn't affect the base Tax that you you're paying now the base rate on your house. So just just That's a very important principle that I think we we uh, we Have adhered to and I think we will continue to adhere to that as much as we can And the other thing is I think Anna mentioned this is the council Really has very little opportunity beyond the The the guidelines to really influence the budget because as as Anna mentioned When the budget comes to us As the finance committee first reviews it then the council reviews it and votes on it We can't change we can't change things. We cannot say well, we'd rather spend a hundred thousand dollars over here Instead of over here. So we can't Um, and that's I think that's state law. I don't think that's even a policy. So, um So it's very important that we get the guidelines right At the beginning because that's really where The finance committee and the council has the input and where really the folks in town have the input so Now's the time to really, you know, have your voice heard so And would you say the town manager goals is an indirect way of You know signaling to the town manager that this is what we want to see happen because that means for him He has to divert staff time resources to make sure that the goals are setting up for him. He's able to then Work on those Yeah, that's I think that's one of the reasons why we do them at the same time Is because we can't be putting in policy goals that are going to be hugely expensive Without taking into consideration when we're doing the financial guidelines And we can't say, you know policy goal. We want you to create 17 new departments and we don't want you to change anything with the budgets, you know, so That's an extreme example, but they do need to they do play together and impact one another I think actually waste taller could be a good example of this, right? Is that we're we want to move something forward? That's that could be really great for our community and we also need to make sure that we're recognizing Potential cost impacts and and giving latitude not necessarily the financial guidelines don't get so into detail like that But for example last year's financial guidelines are very clear that this probably isn't the year for new programs or policies And so we it's it's a bit unfair of us as a council and this is my opinion. Everything tonight is my opinion It's a bit unfair of us as a council to say We want you to enact this new program knowing it might call and might have financial implications And yet our financial guidelines told you to not add any new programs that might cost money So we need to make sure that they're not Contradictory to to each other Yeah, and actually that Would be we'll come back to that because that is the legislative process that i'm proposing Is a way for the council To talk about the new initiatives because we want to encourage counselors to come up with new initiatives whether it's a new bylaw or an amendment And be able to have that conversation and council how to Prioritize it based on the existing goals we've said but also if it's not in the goals You know whether it's urgent whether it's critical And when should when and how should we prioritize that so that's a conversation but later But I see erica's hand up so erica go for it Thanks for describing the process. I appreciate it. It's nice to know well I know that there have always been ways for the You know residents of the town to weigh in on things but I guess one of the things i'm wondering about is Where does in your mind? Advocating for continued support and funding of Previously unfunded Programs like crest fit in like this is a program that People have advocated for that. I for one want to continue seeing but that doesn't seem to have A clear financial future So like is it part of this budgeting process that in part of the mandate to the town manager that you would say Yeah, ensure that this is going to have a secure future Yes, and I also want to clarify that that was something that was very clearly written into this year's budget Was that crest is backed by the operational budget of the town? They have received grant funding in the past that has alleviated that but in no way is crest reliant solely on grant funding They are going to continue to exist because that budget is Built in as a planned Operational cost for the town. So if some for some reason they don't get that dph grant that they've gotten in past years The town is is covering that cost So thank you for what that's worth. I want to make sure that's very clear That crest is is funded by the town and will continue to be funded by the town Thank you very much. Yeah, of course. Yeah Thank you for bringing that out. That's a great But sorry, sorry second But still saying that that is a value of yours in this process is still really helpful So knowing that, you know, I think if it's helpful to know that it is funded great That's awesome, but it's always still helpful to hear from folks to say I really value this. Please continue that That's still really helpful for for folks to hear And Anna we are suggesting that Erica then sent an email to the town council saying that hey as a priority We would and I would love to see that funded Yep, so I think it would absolutely be appropriate for because we already had the public hearing on the budget. I think that that's true I think that at this point a comment a public comment would be helpful You also could send it to the finance committee, but I think The easiest way is going to be to send it to the town council through a public comment Yeah, because I think there is still a lot of confusion about what is crest what is the role and I I mean all the counselors I know of are fully supporting it but in speaking with some people in public. I got the impression that they were Wondering whether the council council is supporting it or not and what's going on with it So I just want to clarify that yes the council is 100 behind it and the reason for It to be going in a way that it is going in a very Careful intentional way is because it involves a safety of the crest members of the public And there is a process and training that has to go in terms of them being able to feel confident to Yeah to To start taking the calls that we hope they will start taking at some point, but there's a process We are working with a harvard policy center the Recruited few towns and amas was one of the towns that was recruited in that process So we're working with a cohort of other community responders In other towns, so we're learning and we're doing this and everyone including town managers really committed to it Adrian And let me just add also Erica The finance committee does have a public comment period at every meeting It's usually held early in the meeting so that people don't have to sit through you know an hour and a half of us growing on But it can it doesn't have to be focused on Whatever the particular agenda is that day It can be focused on any issue that has financial implications for the town So you're most welcome to to we meet tomorrow at one o'clock You're most welcome to join us and you know just make make a comment that you support crest and we should fund it And at the budget perfectly within your rights. Yeah, absolutely Thank you Adrian Oh, you're muted You're muted So hi shout out being on of my former counselors Um, I I'm so happy that you continue to include us Um Redistricting I am now along with many of my 80% neighbors. I think I am in district three, but I have to tell you my heart belongs in district five geographically Valley and those of us on the southern end of town have our particular interests Just in terms of neighborhoods now without having been said I would love to have a very clear Explanation the finance committee I believe this week on tuesday went ahead and authorized real authorized a bond for the jones library I would love a clear explanation as to how that does not increase the town's um The town's expenses or liability or you know fill in the blank for it. I've yet to hear a clear thorough Understandable explanation of that. So I'd love to hear that tonight from anyone I've been practicing this for like three days. So I think I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a go. Okay So first off I want I want to start by saying the finance committee is not authorized to authorize anything The finance committee. Sorry my dog is making so much. I'm in my office right now And my dog has decided that she must make a lot of noise The finance committee can recommend something to the council That is a council decision. The finance committee will not decide that So that's point one to be clear that the full council will vote on this The short answer to your question is that there is a memorandum of agreement a memorandum of understanding between the library trustees and the town and the town of amherst That specifies the amount that the town is responsible for paying The remainder of that is the responsibility of the library trustees and I'm hoping that ken will correct me If I get any of this wrong But one of the comments that was made at finance is that we want to see an updated MOU on monday and that is that is my understanding is paul said he would get that to us Just to confirm one more time in writing that what the town is responsible for is the 15.8 That was the same as the initial cost that was presented to voters And that this the increase in costs will be covered by the trustees of the jones library In in one capacity or another how they do that is up to that elected body And I think I guess I'm going to insert my own opinion here Which is that I don't think the council should be making the determination for the library trustees whether or not we think they can raise that money They are elected by the residents by the voters of amherst To decide about the jones library endowment. That is their job. And so, um, you know, I think for me I I am comfortable supporting this because there is a legal memorandum in place that that specifies that the town is the the body that is The town is responsible for the 15.8 Beyond excuse me beyond that. It's the it's the responsibility of the the jones the trustees to Raise the funds Shawnee or bob anything I got wrong Adrian did that answer your question Uh, yes, I so appreciate that and I I am aware that it will come before the full town council That was clear and I appreciate it I think the ongoing question that gets very muddied over neighborhood discussions town discussions is the what if now Understanding that the jones is its own entity. It's a its own building But very beloved by the entire town Uh, if the jones and their trustees Find that they are short The fact is it's hard for me to believe as a very long-term resident that we're going to allow The jones to go into the red Uh, I guess that's a I guess that's my concern overall I understand that and I think ken if you'd like to speak to any of this I would I'd welcome that input at this point I think that my understanding is that if the trustees come up short that they would rely on Their endowment to to support filling that gap They from the presentations that the council has received seem very confident That they will be able to raise this funding based on the the fundraising that they've done so far, which is pretty astounding To my knowledge, I don't know that we've ever seen fundraising like this in our community So I um, I'm pretty blown away by it But that's that's my understanding of it is that they they have that confidence in their fundraising and that their endowment is the backstop Ken would and short-term loans as well. Yeah, and that short-term borrowing is is also a possibility for them as well But can't yeah, if you wanted to and you knew this out. Um Yeah Okay, you're muted Sorry, sorry. Yes. Thank you. Yes. Well, the library trustees have a number of options um, one of which is clearly established is to borrow some money and Two banks at least have expressed a very clear interest in lending it to them. They are Obviously a responsible creditor Uh, and they're interested in helping out In addition, the library has an endowment that's now eight million dollars um, obviously any use of that endowment would impair the the uh, the Contribution of that endowment to the operating expense of the library, but if you do the math um, you would see that whatever contribution to the library from that endowment might be lost by every imaginable possible amount Uh, yes, it wouldn't be it would be painful, but it was not in any way impair the operations of the library Uh, even if the endowment had to supply for example $200,000 a year The library's budget is 2.7 million. So that's the amount that's a fairly It's a nice cut to the budget There's not something that nonprofits have ever seen before And anybody who's worked for nonprofits for the last 20 years knows that that's something that Could be bridged now the question is however, what Who should pay who should decide What risk to take and I agree with ana we we think it's very clearly the the job of the trustees To decide that maybe it's worth taking a short term Cut to the end to the operating budget because five years from now We'll regret that we don't have the best library we could possibly have If we don't do that that's a decision that the trustees are in the best position to make And they're delegated that responsibility. They were elected to do that job And I think we should let them do it and in fact finally The best assurance of all is that they are responsible for that because nobody Nobody loves the library more than those six trustees including me by the way, but none of us want the library's Operations to be impaired or looking for is the long-term best interest of the library and this project is clearly That and I'm realizing we didn't actually introduce you in your role. Could you No, I'm sorry. That was my fault. Could you I was 10 years Kent as it's okay I'm a former trustee of the library many years ago But since 2014 I've been a member of the feasibility committee designing this project Help engineer it all the way through and I'm now the co-chair of the capital campaign committee trying to raise Money for this gap and by the way just to give you a I didn't say anything about the order of magnitude of the gap so The gap right now is about a little over 16 million dollars But we've already raised nine of that and we raised it almost all of that in the last year So even if we raise nothing else, we can go ahead with this project without Eviscerating the library as some people have said but the but the likelihood that we won't raise anything else is absolutely ridiculous So I want to agent I'm happy to take other questions on this because I think this is actually a really good forum for this conversation to happen I think that it's it's tough to do this with 13 council members to really kind of Be in a brainstorm space and and just answer questions really frankly And and really quickly. So if anyone has questions about this, I just want to name that this is a really good space to do it in Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Thank you Any other thoughts on libraries or budgets or Anything else? Oh, let me do my hair Erica. Did you Yeah, I'm sorry. I finally raised my hand and unmuted all those things Thanks, I um Yeah, so there's Talk about how Spending on the library Will prevent the town from spending on other important Uh goals like a new dpw School or you name it, right? We have a lot of capital projects and like you um, and so I'm Um, I don't believe that to be true, but I think this might be a really nice place for you all to talk about um, what the reality is and how we Um plan for how we finance Um, those other those other capital projects In addition to the beautiful library Uh, you are correct. Kent, you want to start start us off here? Well, I think the the fact is that if we don't do this project There'll be less money available for those other projects because The only alternative for the town if it wants a library Is to spend something in the order of over 20 million dollars Just to keep an operational building in the same state it is now And that's not a pie in the sky. Yes, that was a professional estimate Four years ago. It was 14 to 16 million dollars. That's now been updated by professionals And it doesn't include Remediating the discovery of asbestos that's now been found in the building which would be covered Covered by the contingencies of the project but wouldn't be Covered by it would have to be added to that cost And there would be no money from any other sources to do that every single one of the donors To our projects so far are interested. They're motivated because this is a visionary project for this town And they're not interested in just the repair. So Basically instead of spending 15.8 the town is going to have to spend over 20 I would say 22 23 million just to fix the building up A building which then would not need any of the the town's climate goals Which is new project building will and it wouldn't improve any of the services And in fact, it would make it more difficult for people to navigate and work in the library because The the present building does not In is not in compliance with the disability handicap accessibility codes And to make it in compliance just by repairing the building would shrink The space is available for anything other than storing books So the other alternative Is absolutely worse than the one in front of the town right now Thank you Ken. And I think to that point One of my challenges is that I think often we look at what's in front of us and we don't necessarily realize that doing nothing is still a choice And so in this case not acting on this, you know a The the grants that were received. This was one of the questions that the council had raised was, you know Does the money actually go away? And the reality is that the way that the donors were Fledging and and giving money it does because that was it was committed to a specific project Similarly the grants that we received from the federal government and I believe the state as well As well as the CPA funding through the town Was for specific projects and is contingent on the renovation expansion proceeding forward So so the fundraising does go away and and Ken's correct that the estimates are extremely high for for simply Making the building functional To where we need it to be I think the other point with with regards to the other projects is that we The the funding plan Is actually proceeding the way it was intended to Although the school cost us a lot more than the initial funding plan intended the The fire station and the DPW are being we have been Squirreling away money and saving money our reserves are larger than is recommended for a town our size Because we've been saving money in those to pay for those more outright The plan has been to be has been to borrow for the library To do a debt exclusion for the school and to pay for the DPW and fire station through our reserves That is still on track the money that we're using from the library wasn't available to those other projects That we are not taking money from those other projects and they are still moving forward at the In my opinion not a fast enough pace, but they are moving forward We're we're still navigating citing concerns for DPW Fire we have tentative sites and we're trying to move forward on what it would take to make them functional for a tentative site. Um, excuse me, and we're moving forward on is that feasible Eric I want to appreciate you for asking this question because I think you acknowledge that you're like I don't think this is true But this is what I'm hearing and so I just wanted to note like Thank you for asking this because it is a common question that we're getting And it's really it's a it's a misconception. This isn't money that's available to the other projects Um, I'm gonna let George George Oh, I know I wasn't sure if George was gonna Further respond to a doing if you have another question or if you want to clarify something as well that's fine well Oh, you muted I'll be I'll be very quick But based on what I just heard too from what we hear out and about in town Um, the concerns I've heard is and perhaps it's directed to Kent That the community space the beautiful new community space in the library Uh suggests to some of in the community That that means that a youth empowerment center will be on the back burner Now these are issues at royal around town Um And I don't know the answer to that There are concerns you've likely all heard it and so Let me have some thoughts about that We're in the budget Shawnee and Anna is that youth empowerment center because we do know that the dpw And the fire station is bounced at least five perhaps seven years down the road And with the clamor in town for that youth empowerment center At the same time A library having this big new room that there are issues here That I think unfortunately makes a lot of people in town very nervous about funding for Um items that they feel is very important It goes along with crests of course and all the issues that um, well, we all know full well So thank you for taking that question Yeah, I my thought on it is that the youth center is not um that the the youth space in the library Was always part of those library plans And that it is not intended to replace a youth empowerment center But because we have other projects such that you named the fire station and dpw That are a higher priority that the youth center Sorry, the Can't what is it called the youth space or team? Team space youth space in the library can help but it is not intended to be a youth empowerment center That's my understanding is that your understanding as well. Yes, although I would I would suggest that if you'd listen to the You've been able to attend the trustee meeting yesterday You would have would have heard an incredible report on what the library is trying to do to make it much more inclusive There's a group working extremely hard. They just develop some data That's quite revealing and gives them a lot of ideas for Directions to go in. This is not something that the library is unaware of and yes, I don't know I it may not it may not be able to take the place of a youth empowerment center but it certainly could be serve some very important functions with respect to the The community that's being would be served by that by that I think the other need that we're we're seeing as well that comes up often as a senior center So we do have other needs that are coming in including the youth empowerment center a senior center The roof on the police station right like there are needs that are coming up quickly behind fire and dpw But I believe that most if not all of the counselors are prioritizing fire and dpw right now So I know that's not helpful in the sense of I don't have a date for you, right? I don't have like an A prognosis on when things might start to move on that But it is something that was in the town manager goals and i'm racking my brain trying to remember specifically what he wrote on it Because I I know that it's not it has not slipped off of anyone's radar It's just not the quarter two on the list which is fire and dpw right now So since it was not on the initial capital projects list, but it has come up with the cswg report That was an important area or gap that they identified There was five hundred thousand dollars that was put in to study the issue and now along those lines they have recruited somebody to initiate that process And to get the youth involved get their feedback Because one thing is to say that oh we need a center But one is to really understand that we could create the center that no one shows up and that has happened that can happen So I think the process that is being followed right now is to engage the youth and find out what are their needs and While we figure out what this you know the funding for that meanwhile, what is a programming that can be offered to them And finding the right appropriate space for the that programming and space to be created for them and then again to reiterate The library youth space team space is not in lieu of the youth center and The money that's demarcated for the library is for the library and if you don't use it for that We don't build a new one. We're still going to use it for the repairs and more So it's never that like if you don't do the library that money is going to go to the youth center That's not the case, right? However, I also want to acknowledge and appreciate The effort that the library has created the subcommittee The library trustees have created a subcommittee to Make the library more Inclusive and speak to the needs of different populations in town George your hand was up earlier Yeah, thank you I guess two things that this conversation leads me to just observe something that I Experienced over the last two months because I knocked on a lot of doors and I talked to a lot of people And I heard about senior center senior issues I heard about fire station dpw. I heard about roads and sidewalks and potholes Um, but I did not hear anyone or no one spoke to me about the need for a youth empowerment center So, um, I personally have some thoughts about it in terms of what Where this stands in terms of priorities In the community itself let alone amongst the council. So that's but that's not why I raised my hand I actually wanted to ask the two of you Given your you know five years of experience with shawnee and two years now with with ana With the budgeting process and what you would change about it in terms of the timeline if anything Maybe you think the way it is is the way it should be any thoughts about That you care to share About changes to that process because I know with my three years on the council I came away with a feeling like this this really could be improved um I wonder if you have any thoughts on that Bob is laughing at me because I've gone down swinging into finance committee meetings now and uh, I have strong thoughts george. I have strong thoughts Shawnee, do you want to go first or do you want me to no go for it? Yeah, um, you know, I think george to answer your question. I I've only been on finance specifically for a year But I've been engaged in the budget process obviously for both years I think for me the biggest challenge that I have is that There is an incredible demand placed on both the finance committee and the town staff After the budget has been presented to the finance committee in the council Where they go through and present to us what they're doing and what their budget needs are And for me because we as a council can't change the budget once it's been presented to us It is not helpful to hear from them at that point um It is it would be more helpful to hear from them as we are developing the budget guidelines Um, and so for me, that's one of the biggest changes that I'd like to see It's tough to navigate this because we don't Supervised town staff. That's not our job and that's very clearly in the in the job of the town manager And so it's kind of walking this really fine line of it's very helpful to us for us to know What the needs are and what's kind of happening on this level so that we can form our opinions with all of the information And at the same time, we're not trying to overstep and say paul you need to give specifically more money to one department or another So I think that's that's one of the biggest shifts that I would make is is changing when we hear from town staff In order to to actually inform the part of the process that we have A state a control over So I think that's one. I also think that we have not done a great job of informing the public on How best to engage with the budget process and what the role of the different bodies is Um, so that's another and then the third thing is that I really think we have an incredible opportunity with the residential Um capital requests that has not been realized It is the closest thing that we have to participatory budgeting, which was a promise that was made and has not been realized And so for me the resident capital request it should be More clearly articulated and delineated in terms of how to get folks engaged with it and how to Help folks to present projects that are feasible What we see often is people present projects that are really desperately needed And then it kind of gets brushed off because you know, the joint capital committee says well, that should have been under DPW's budget or that should have been under someone else's budget So we need to we need to clarify those processes So that's kind of my like figure to smaller three just my top three for now. I'll stop there Bob anything No, I I I concur with with your observations and um, I agree that it's kind of a little frustrating to You know get a budget in may on may 1st uh a town budget and Have to review it by the end of may and get a recommendation to the town council And we haven't really looked seeing the town budget before then And so it's it's it's a little frustrating that we don't have Something in between The guidelines and then when the budgets appear the other thing is of course The town manager doesn't develop the library budget doesn't develop the the actual budget for the schools um, and so When we when the finance committee and the council review that are already baked in I mean, they're done You know, you can you can review it from the perspective of did they stay within their budget? that's about all really we can do because within What the school decides to do with their money? We don't really the the the finance committee and the the town council doesn't have a lot of say in that so So there's a little bit of a of a disconnect between um, the responsibility of the council and The actual how the budget is actually put together and I think we should try to work You know through some of that to make the council more aware of where things are going Before we get to the final product Yeah Yeah, for example, we can't choose to raise Teacher salaries or para educator salaries. That was a that was that was one thing george. Um, feel free to just Yeah I like what i'm hearing it sounds like at least The first issue is something that the finance committee could address itself. It does have some control of the process and it could Rejigger that process assuming the town manager is willing to go along So that you could get some input from town staff earlier in the process With the understanding that we don't tell them or paul what to do But we I've always felt that that you know, we need to hear from them At some point in the process where we get a sense of what their priorities are and concerns are And as bob pointed out once you've got the budget in front of you. It's may It's it's it's not a very nice term, but it's kind of dog and pony show And it's it's it would be nice to see if we could find a way to to fix that It sounds like the finance committee could perhaps take some steps in the coming year to do that perhaps Yeah, I agree. Thank you Any other questions that folks have or I know we're nearing eight shall any anything else you wanted to talk about Oh, yeah, I Wanted to go through the process the legislative and it kind of ties in some of these things that we're talking about um in terms of How the town council has been allocating its time and With respect to new bylaws or amendments like even the waste hauler, you know That was brought in and Anna brought in lighting Changes to the lighting policy so Still far it's still a very new form of government And one of the observations that I had not many in the budgeting, but in terms of the process I did have observations that One our town staff is really Extended and feeling burnt out because all of us are super active and that's great. We have very active involved counselors We're all bringing in our ideas that we want to see happen and In the absence of an honest conversation with the town staff in a process to have that conversation The the way it has happened so far is like, let's say We have advocates in the community like zero waste who brought forward the waste hauler bylaw changes And then there were three sponsors or four of us Who said, okay, we're interested in this so we presented that to the town council and the town council then voted To send it to the town services and outreach committee now the The question is does the town have the staff to make the changes that that may involve How important is this how urgent is this? By this change Given all the other priorities that the staff is working on right now the dpw or what they're working so In the absence of a process currently The process is being that town council votes Generally everything that comes into a committee and then the committee has to work with the staff So there's a lot of time of the council committees and the staff members to work through those issues So in the case of the waste hauler bylaw We were fortunate to get a consultant From the mass dp. We got a grant and we were able to get 80 hours of susan wade who worked with us and and then some of the sponsors and like that would be me who took an initiative and studied all the other best practices and bylaws in other towns and Came forward with what? How to move forward along with andy doing his work so all of us are working and doing this So but at the same time there is no real process We're all just kind of doing what we feel interested in and we're doing but without any process So that is why I was proposing a legislative process guide. So it's not a bylaw It's not required, but it can be a living document That a can tell especially new councillors how to initiate New bylaw changes. So for example, many of us did not realize Even andy for that matter who's been here. I'm going to just talk about him But me I'll just say okay about me. I've been here for five years and I did not know that our Rules of procedure and the charter require that when a councillor is sponsoring a bylaw It has to be in the format That it's going to be adopted And so for me and for andy We were like, how can people just propose it without doing the research without Studying talking to stakeholders who was going to impact. So for example, waste hauler I did end up now that I know it. I just rewrote the whole bylaw Because that is the way the process the charter is set up So if you want to initiate something you have to present the bylaw in a way that it's going to be adopted Right, so that creates a little bit of confusion now because many people think then because it's being presented It's final and it's done. But that's not the case because We still have to Work out what is it going to cost the residents? What is it going to cost the town to implement something like this? We have to talk to waste haulers Find out if this is feasible So it's kind of they're all these different pieces that are disconnected And therefore I worked with a team now to come up with what might be a living document and a guide And I can just quickly share the screen to show you Very briefly what that process might look like and there are three goals Let me just show you what it is Because it also involves clarity for the sponsors Plarity for the town council, but also for the town committee council committees How to collaborate with other town committees like the transportation advisory committee or ecac or css jc so having a process where We the council committees is communicating and working effectively with the other town committees and Given the limited resources we have as counselors how to engage the residents So with that I'm going to share my screen so And I would love feedback because this is coming to town services and outreach I've already sent it to a team. I don't think they put it in the packet yet but Can everyone see this? So it starts with the sponsors who want to introduce An initiative and so there'll be a checklist basically of what to include in the memo and proposed by law What so it's like giving clarity to all counselors that hey, this is what according to charter rule 8 or or rules of procedure Two-point whatever This is what you need to do But in addition to that here is a checklist of questions that you can go through To make sure that you're giving us the background research like what is the problem you're solving for who is this impacting and so forth, right? so then they send the Sponsors sent the memo and the proposed by-law to the town council And this is where the council now has a checklist of questions How to prioritize given the criticality And urgency of the issue town resources and council priorities When should we prioritize this initiative before they decide to refer it to a committee? Let's say it does get sent to a committee then what level of the committee has to decide what level of community engagement and expertise is needed How to effectively collaborate with town boards and committees and community partners like the Amherst college We have Sarah bar who's been working with us and is fabulous. So like just tapping into the resources we have within the community to be able to effectively Engage more people more and get more and more people's Feedback on these issues and then at the end Hopefully this is a living document so people can review and revise the process And just to give you an idea what this looks like their checklist Like for the sponsors what are existing? Issue the challenges you're addressing. What are the who's going to be impacted by it to find the purpose and goals? What research and past consultant reports are and these are all suggested It's not like every memo has to include all of these things And then once it comes to the council they can talk about is this measure a priority for council? I spoke with the town manager. What would be helpful to you? In terms of giving feedback because it's hard for town staff and managers to say no We don't want to do it But like asking them very specific questions like what are the resources we will need what is going to cost the town What is the timeline for the staff to work on this given their current priorities? So having these sort of questions in place allows all of the as it's moving forward for the different People who playing these roles to have certain questions to move it forward and once it comes to the committee then Just deciding what is the level of involvement we want community engagement? We want is a public comment enough or will we be needing more? More information and the reason again to summarize why I think this is really important is because We have been seeing a lot of burnout in town staff. There were a lot of proposals that are coming and there was no way of prioritizing them Like some of its sponsors were not really clear what was expected From us and of course one could say that we could have gone and found out and we tried but it's very haphazard The town council needs a process still we're still fairly new to how to prioritize new initiatives And then we've been hearing from some of the town committees. Hey, you're not utilizing our expertise so this is to create a process of formally inviting our different like transportation advisory or energy and climate action committee or CS like inviting them to share the expertise In a particular format and then communicating back with them And given our limited resources how can we like we're so stretched then as counselors? Like even now we have very few people who showed up because many people don't even know that we have district meetings So how do we get the word out? How do we let people know? Given our limited time that hey, we're talking about this and we need your feedback on You know, whether we're working on the nuisance bylaw. Are we working on waste hauler or whatever it is? So and my hope is that this can be used at the orientation for new town councils Counselors it can be a sponsor's reference when they're initiating it can be used for facilitating discussions and collaborating community feedback so Any questions? feedback comments on that Like I guess for the for for the community of course of the fellow counselors and to be counselors. I'm happy to You know use this opportunity to see your questions around this But for the community and residents I think the big question for y'all is really how can we get the word out better? And how can we understand the lived experiences of people around issues that can then inform us as we are making decisions that impact you at the end Oh That's such an important question. Shawnee Uh, I don't have the million dollar answer I think um, you've you've wrapped your arms around the issues that Residents face that your frustrations as a 13 member body Have experienced and still struggle with The fact is that a 13 member body Is almost unable to reach out and put its arms around a full community When I and I think it's up to the communities District five as I mentioned I I'm in the old district five But I had that's a political distinction I feel very much a product of south amherst and Until and unless we have communities Reaching out to our 13 member bodies because we are We're a small community, but we're very long. We're spread out politically and geographically And for me, it's no easy answer But community building within the neighborhoods Based on the based on not the political or the redistricting But for the affinity How to get there is another question But I do feel very much a part of my neighborhood here in orchard valley Connected a little bit larger to you know, it's sort of like those concentric circles I'm part of orchard valley. I'm part of south amherst and then I'm very much a part of the town. So you've got all these concentric circles. I think starting Starting at the the very center. It's sort of like your birth family And then going out to the school family in the wider community Again, I I should stop because I have no answers, but In order to bridge what you so earnestly are seeking responses and answers for shallony and I have applauded you All along the way since I first heard of your plan Is to reach into the neighborhoods How uh and how successful that might be I don't know Whether it's worth a try because your time is of such It's so High powered and demanded. I don't know. No, I'm not asking for another task force by the way. I think it's It's up to the the community the neighborhood communities I think why Yeah, no, I you know, we I do feel that acknowledging that we have limited time and we have limited staff like our community preservation offices are amazing and They are working on what they are working on especially events in our town And I think that's really important to build that sort of community that we're talking about Adrienne That's not necessarily always about political things but just getting to know our neighbors whether it's the juneteenth or like the south asian or All these different festivals and stuff that we have net having right now is really important um but I think we have existing channels that are underutilized and that's kind of what i'm trying to see is what is the low hanging fruit You know, just talking with sarah bar. I ran through who's who's an amas college She's like the liaison person for the town council with amas college And I ran this by her and she was like, yeah, like waste hauler this real synergy for the students on campus and the staff and There's a lot of expertise in their community That is working on minimizing and creating a zero waste culture on campus And so how do we create that synergy with amas college? Expertise with our town and then there's zero waste of course also that has done the you know, they've done Surveys they have created neighborhood groups that when the time comes to go and educate people because that's a big part of the zero waste Cheap culture is education You know, how do we minimize our waste? How do we compost? How do we recycle repurpose all of those things? And so working with community partners is a very important part of um This list and if the purpose of this list is not to add to the counselor's responsibilities But to streamline it and to make it easier like if I had known that i'm supposed to give a bylaw I would have written it. I have written an amazing bylaw which i'm so excited to share with you So i've already sent it to it's really fun once you know what is expected and there's a clarity it's really amazing to To be able to do what you know, what we feel really passionate about But for me, there's been a lack of clarity and it wasn't just me because when I spoke with andy as an example he's been In government for so long and he didn't have that you know He kept saying why are we proposing a bylaw because we haven't yet decided and the fact is we are expected to create a bylaw so this document is meant to streamline and help the counselors to Reduce some of the ambiguity and to use the current channels that we have um and partnerships that we have Any other questions or folks or comments? I'll save mine for for tso Okay, right No, i'm just like well hitting that eight fifteen mark um Any other I put it as 8 30, but I don't think we have that many questions. So we can Any other updates shall any or bob? I think i've i've given my george you unmuted Better thank you. Yeah, thank you both for doing this. Um, It's I think for me the one thing that I worry the most about Is how I will communicate with a district that is so large and so diverse Um, I walked it the last two months and it's big and it's got lots of different neighborhoods uh, and uh each one has its own concerns and interests and so I Something I give you a lot of thought to and uh, this is certainly one vehicle And there are others but uh, yeah, I'm trying to get people to I'm trying to reach people and hear what they have to say is a real challenge I felt that for three years on the council and i'm feeling it now as I look Ahead for the next two years in the new district three And george, I would argue that your your reputation also proceeds you I've never been in your district obviously But your reputation as a communicator of um, what's going on in the council proceeds Your newsletters are legendary as someone who's very very bad at newsletters Um, I am in awe of of what you can do there Please write mine for me. Um, thank you. Do you have a joint newsletter for sure? Yeah, Erica and then Alice Um, yeah, I just if we're wrapping up. I just wanted to take a minute to say How much we appreciate your service shawnee? It's been Very wonderful to have you representing Be my family my neighborhood my district Um and ana. Thank you for continuing on That's we know what a huge commitment this is and appreciate that you're willing to continue and kind of have that ongoing expertise And then bob, thank you for stepping up and we're you know, it's great that you're willing to Move from finance into full full power mode. That's awesome. Um, so just to the three of you. Thank you for for like these and for your continued Commitment to the public good Thank you, Erica. Thank you, Erica. You said thank you, Erica. So I repeat and say ditto. Thank you Thank you one and all Um on that note Erica mentioned something that I want to just toss out there Which is that with bob cycling on to council? We will have an empty spot for a resident member of the finance committee So That in mind, um, if folks are interested, it's a pretty incredible way to um to engage in the process and And how it works and all of that so keep an eye out for that in january And zoning board of appeals Please I say also one of the requests is please let your neighbors just send blanket emails to your neighbors that there are district meetings introduce them to bob and anna Let, you know, just share their email addresses. I'm sure they don't mind getting that shared and so that they can jump on their email list And they can stay informed And then of course like anna said finance committee will have an empty and zoning board of appeals We really really need and those two are very important physicians So please spread the word and alice Yeah, well, I would start out by Echoing what Erica said my appreciation for all the work that all of you have done and will do Um, and I've been sitting here silent and for some reason I I thought oh, there are other people who just haven't come forward I mean, there are others that that aren't that i'm not seeing on the Screen and then I looked to see and it said, oh, there are nine people participating in this meeting And that shook me up a bit. I thought well, I can't be silent forever if i'm one of nine Oh and more than half of them are already on the council. Well, you're not on the council, right? I've I've done my bit. I'm not you know, I've I've been the president of the residents council a resident association at applewood and it's been a hell of a year And I'm just going off of it. So uh, thank you for that sir now having Health problem. Well, actually my health problems are looking up. I have I won't go into them But I'm in good spirits now. But anyway, I I uh, I did today send it. Oh, well I I guess you know that there was no publicity about this until today. I mean there had been A tiny little notice earlier in our precinct Which is basically well with the people here Um, and so today I I sent this that I've I sent Shalini's email to about 20 people at applewood and of course none of them are here. Um, but uh, I I I I guess I mean I was trying to think now What How would I I mean, I don't know how I would organize anything But I'm more interested in getting together with people about something like you were talking about waste and and Cycling and things like that that I participated in a group at applewood or I did until I was president about Sustainability and and recycling is the the thing that's we spend so much time on so and in some I mean you don't need another issue another thing to but but um That's just where my brain is going that that People are More interested in something specific rather than just saying. Oh, well, how do you want to what do you want to do with the town government or? Whatever Yeah, I think that's really helpful feedback alice and I think you know Bob will have plenty of planning to do and and one of the things on my agenda today That I didn't get to was reach out to bob to talk about our strategy for district meetings But I think one of the things that I'm hearing from you and and I think based on our conversation today That could be helpful is is say like here are the two or three things that we're going to talk about But pull from so for example right now, you know the council We're actually prepping carryover memos right because we've only got a couple meetings left, but um But saying right here, you know right now in front of the council We've got waste hauler and rental registration come to the meetings. We're going to bring the sponsors of those I think we um, there's an opportunity for a bit more proactive planning on topic based meetings Versus general updates. I think where I struggle is that there's folks on So many so many awareness levels right and how do we make sure that we're also staying approachable in the sense of Giving that intro, but I think that that's something I think bob and I can and I know shallony and I can um kind of improvise a bit right to make sure that we give an intro If folks need it But yeah, I think it's it's helpful feedback to say let's structure district meetings around a couple core issues Versus just a blank slate. That makes sense But I could understand for this meeting that this was a you know a reasonable agenda I mean Yeah, absolutely. Anyway, I do appreciate all the work that you guys do Thank you You know having been in town I have to go back and re Relitigate for previous discussion. I mean I was in town meeting for years and years and years And I really miss that opportunity to be in a group where you're we're doing something and and voting for the things you care about And and I've had a difficult time even I mean, I just don't watch. I hate to admit this I don't watch council meetings You know and so You know, I just feel so much removed from from what we got with town meeting although town meeting had its problems too And we voted I think that In particular the modes of communication are really challenging And and how we make sure that we're reaching people and I think that it's an area where there's a lot of opportunity for improvement Yeah, yeah And again, I think they're so stretched in because we have job many of us are still working and so I'd like the newsletter I did send. I don't know how It was before elections. I sent one and then today was a reminder email But I did send one like many. I don't know several weeks ago to market calendars Yeah, so to market calendars and that's kind of being the trend that we people have reduced more and more So it's it's hard for us to be really energized also about setting an agenda and presenting and I don't know it's just it is Kind of hard but Alice what what I'm hearing you say and I'm wondering if Like the newsletters can include that these are the topics of these committee like Committees are working. So if you're interested in waste hauler, for example There's gonna there's a huge carrier one memo and the next year So it's going to be talking a lot about it and we're going to analyze the RFI because we did get three waste haulers to respond To the RFIs So that's very encouraging news that there is interest because people are like, what if no, you know, only one person us waste Response, but we did get three And so right now the town staff is analyzing the responses and in the carryover I've presented the bylaw and the way it should be adopted But then there's a decision table Created with what are the questions for each like to have an effective pay-as-you-throw model What are two options that I'm recommending based on best practices and then Looking at the feasibility of that so that you know, if you're interested in that, you know You the newsletters could let residents know that this TSO is working right now on waste hauler Blah blah blah the CRC the carry forward is going to include the nuisance bylaw for example especially for residents with a lot of rental properties or just even owner owned properties where there's a lot of noise or You know, so that's being made more robust So that people feel they can enjoy the privacy of their homes and public spaces So if someone's interested in nuisance bylaw, then they can come to the CRC meetings to discuss that So maybe that's a good way to format the newsletters and then also therefore the District meetings can be around those issues I think Alice I think what I was hearing and is that There's a lot of committees and a lot of topics and that a district meeting provides an opportunity for a concentrated Forum and space that isn't just a public comment and you know sitting throughout what can be a confusing meeting so I think that there's What I'm hearing you say is also really Using the district meetings as that opportunity to dive into those topics more Nationally Right like the library today. Yeah, we're Agent we're going to go to you and then we're nearly at time and I want to respect folks that Thursday evenings, but agent. Yes So I love this Discussion because if it's helpful to our counselors moving forward So I'm going to give an opposite point of view from my good friend Alice Uh, there are some of us who watch you every Monday night that you have a meeting There are many of us who also follow the finance committee meetings and the library trustees and school committees So please consider this as you Talk about going forward. I for one am in favor of single issue district meetings no more than two I don't want to hear Of the town council and everything else because honestly You're tired of it and we're tired of hearing it. We're vitally interested in anything that affects us Both in terms of the quality of the life of the resident and to make certain That we understand the decisions town council is making and if we don't understand it Then this is where I see an opportunity to ask you questions So thank you for making your time available and I'm going to stop there. I wish you all well Don't worry about the nine of us. That's a very few. Yes. There was some communication problems But it's almost December and everybody's thinking about the holidays. So let me end by saying happy holidays I'm going to invite everyone to the markets Friends and friends and neighbors. We have an annual tree lighting Down here at markets pond. George. Are you still listening? I spoke to you about our issues with our beautiful conservation area So you're going to get a special personal invite. So Thank you so much You repair markets pond Adrian, when is the market fund gathering? Oh, I'll send it to you too, shall we have a date It's December 11th, but I will send that out. It's grown a little bit over the years We've only got a sort of a very small group that shows up, but um, I will send out that invite to you all, okay So please come down. We'll have some hot ciders cookies and uh neighbors And if you want to get your If you want to get your fill of tree lightings, um tomorrow weather dependent We have the very merry merry Currently in my office, which is across from it and I'm going to give you a quick spoiler Which is that they accidentally plugged it in last week and it looks really good and then they quickly So, uh, uh, I got a quick preview of it when they were like, whoops Um, so please come out tomorrow. It's from three to six. Uh, if it's pouring rain, they won't do it But uh, otherwise, please come come join us. My girlfriend is requested that we bring, uh, the dog So there might be a poodle sighting as well, which I'm a little anxious We'll be fine. Um, thank you all so so much Where where is this last thing you were talking about? The merry maple, um, yeah on the on the town common. Yep. Um, and on the southern end of it Opposite both would yeah Yeah, right. All right. Thank you all so much Thank you so much. Happy holidays. Bye. Thank you very much And George and Bob, thank you especially for coming. We really appreciate your your impact. Our pleasure. Thank you, Ken for all the work you're doing Thank you very much. Take care. Have a good night, everybody. Good night All right