 Welcome to the leaders room. I'm Rupa Rashid of Iklif Leadership and Governance Center. I'm delighted today to welcome to the studio Thansri A.K. Nathen, Executive Chairman and Group MD of the EverSendai Corporation. EverSendai is the company behind some of the world's most iconic buildings, including the Petronas Towers here in Kuala Lumpur and the Borjaal Khalifa in Dubai, the world's tallest building. Thansri, I'd like to kick off today's conversation, invoking a term you've been called by the press here, Man of Steel. Man of Steel conjures up such powerful attributes, strength, invincibility, superhuman powers. What have been the driving forces that have gotten you to where you are today, to being the Man of Steel? When I was young, I always had the aspiration and the burning desire to be successful in life. The reason is because of the hardship what I went through in the course of my father meeting with an accident and the family lost the earning power. I really learned a lot. And the one which really taught me to develop myself and to excel is while I was in India. I studied in India for a few years. India, looking at the environment, the poor people, taught me a lot. It made me to become a better person. Subsequently, when I came back from India to KL and with not much of education background because I dropped off, I did not continue with my studies even though I had an aspiration to be a graduate, which did not happen. But the thought of becoming an entrepreneur was always burning within me. And in order to be an entrepreneur at that time, I told myself I want to become a printing company or establish a printing company. So while I was studying in India, I went and enrolled myself to learn the trade and they paid me 3 rupees a day at that time. It's just basically to give me some pocket money and I learned and eventually when I came to Malaysia I worked as a printer. So in the course of meeting up, in the course of working, then I meet up salesman who used to come and sell papers and printing ink and in the course of conversation they always tell me, you speak well. Why are you working wearing all these dirty clothes? Why can't you become a salesman? And I was not happy working there. I was there for about 6 months. I told myself, why don't I change the field? And during the course of visiting my sister and the insurance agent or manager, the insurance manager who visited my brother-in-law and was having a chat then he told me, why don't I become an insurance agent? So I said, why not? So I went and enrolled myself and at that time I was very shy. I don't have the confidence to go and meet and talk to people and then enrolling myself to become an insurance agent. I attended a lot of motivational courses and I was introduced to this book, The Law of Success, written by Napoleon Hill. At that time I realized, or in the course of moving into the insurance field itself I realized that I need to develop myself, I need to upgrade, I need to build up the stronger character and I came to my own self-realization. So I asked myself, who am I, what am I, what kind of strength, what kind of weakness I have. And I realized that there are certain weakness which I must convert into strength. And when I was introduced to this book, I used to wake up every day by 5.30 in the morning and I used to sit and read this book every day without fail. And whatever I read, I always put into practice. And one of the quotes in the book was, whatever your mind can conceive, you can achieve. So I told myself, that means if I can conceive in my mind, I can achieve it. Obviously I have to work hard towards achieving it. At the time I was driving motorbike and I wanted to buy a car. And Mitsubishi Garland was a very popular car at the time in the 80s. So I went to the showroom, picked up a poster, pasted on the wall in front of the desk where I used to read. I read the book, I would look at the poster. Mind you, 10 months time I bought the car. So I believe that what's written there, if I practice it, I can make it happen. So there are almost about some 30 to some 35 character building, what's written there. I read every subject and I practice every one of it to develop my character, to strengthen myself, to able to venture out, to excel, to attain success. So if you were to ask me what is the biggest thing which is within me, I'm a go-getter. I don't give up. I'm a fighter. So that's an interesting point because one of the things we discuss a great deal in our thinking on leadership is the role of perseverance. The difference between leaders and non-leaders being that non-leaders give up and leaders persevere, surmount and succeed. And it requires an incredible amount of energy to tap into, to achieve. So 30 plus years later, here you are still dreaming, visioning, not the next Mitsubishi, but the next empire. So tell us what is it that keeps energizing you? I'm very passionate about my job. One which really inspires, motivates and even pushes me to achieve much more greater is my employees. I am motivated all because I have to take care. I have to provide the job because in the construction field you have to keep on going for looking for project. It's not like you get one job and it's there forever. Most projects last, say, two and a half years or maximum three. You have to keep on hunting for work. And the virtue of me hunting and looking for new job kept on increasing the number of projects and the number of people. And the more the number of people they come on board, the more they gain commitment to take care of them. That's how it progressively elevated the company and made the company where it is today. So I'm always inspired by my people. And the other aspect what really pushes me hard is my commitment. And I always want to deliver what I've promised. I'm an offspring of the Malaysia Lucas policy way back in the 80s. Tell us more about that. And while working with the Japanese, there is three philosophies which I learn, which I have engraved in my work ethics, is not to compromise on safety, quality of workmanship, on-time delivery. Last 30 years I've never delayed a single job. All the jobs are on time, most of the time ahead of time. And because I want to keep up to my commitment and not to fail, from the inception of the company, I always have repeatedly have spoken to my staff at every meeting about safety, quality, on-time delivery. So it's because I keep on telling them, reminding them, it also gets engraved in their mind. And today, my staff, most of them, are very much into it today. One other aspect which I look at in my business, which I always emphasize to my staff very strongly, is plan, action and check. You go to plan in order to achieve whatever one wants to, one what has said to achieve. And once is planned, and action is very much needed. You can plan, you can take action. But if you don't check on the plan and the action, one would not know whether has it been achieved, has it been materialized, or if there are issues, problems. So I always keep telling to my people that you got to do that in a circle where you plan, action and check, and you got to keep on doing that. And that is really paid off in a big way. I mean, it's very interesting you say that in a lot of management, the emphasis on the checking and the feedback is not as strong. And that's a really interesting piece. You know, business is full of all kinds of tough decisions. Tell us a little bit about a tough decision you've had to make in the course of your career. There are probably many, but pick one. And what the impact of that tough decision was? In my life, every decision has been tough. But I'm a risk taker, but I'm on a calculated risk. One of my toughest decision was, I was comfortable doing business in Malaysia in Singapore. There came a phone call asking me to come and execute the Brugell Arab Hotel, the Seventh Star Hotel which is built on a man-made island. Phone call came almost a dozen times, and I was reluctant. And I was thinking, why should I go and work in a country, it's desert? Arabs don't know what is the work life going to be, what kind of risk is going to be. It was really very tough. Then finally, just to get off the gentleman who was on my back, I told him, send me over the drawing of the project. So they sent. Now, I'm a person, anything which is highly complex, very difficult to build, tickles me. It always inspires me to go and achieve it. That structure is one of the most highly complex, very difficult structure, potentially dangerous to construct. That inspired me. Immediately, I booked the flight, seven hours journey, and at the time, I always travelled only in economy, so I was able to, flight was not full, spread the drawing. By the time I landed in Dubai, I had an idea how to build the structure. The main contract I had the project, but they needed to convince the consultant and the client how are they going to build the structure. And there goes the Malaysian to give them an idea how to build the world's highly complex structure there. So I had an idea, presented to them the methodology step by step. I'm going to build it. They were so impressed. I eventually came back, did a detailed method of statement, did another presentation and convinced the client and the consultant. And we got the job on a negotiated basis. That was in 1996. And that was the key start of Eversunday in the Middle East. The rest is history. History. And I wrote the construction boom after that. Fabulous. And now you can list the tallest building in the world. Yes, subsequently went on to build the Emirates Towers, the Dragon Mart, the Kingdom Center in Saudi Arabia, the Khalifa Stadium, Nakilat Shipyard, the NDIA, that means the new Doha International Airport, Temmler One, sorry, the Phase One, Phase Two, Phase Three. Subsequently, the Bruch Khalifa, the world's tallest building. The last 280 meters of the structure. It's all in steel, which is bull buyers. And today we are one of the highly sought after structural steel contractor in that part of the world. And whichever country we have ventured, it's all by invitation. Never have gone knocking on anybody's doors in any particular country to win a job. It's all through word of mouth. Get invited and always been able to win a job and subsequently establish our base. And we have grown. While I was in Singapore, I have actually to work in Hong Kong, Philippines, Thailand, Indonesia. Then we moved on to Middle East with Dubai as the base. We have done work. We have executed work in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and in Abu Dhabi, Sharjah. We have five fabrication factories. Dubai and in Sharjah, both are in UAE and in Qatar, in Doha, and in Rawang, near about some 40 minutes from KL city. And now the fifth one is in Trichy, in India. In total, we have a capacity of 150,000 ton. And we can be classified one of the largest structural steel contractor in the world. And now we have moved into petrochemical plant, on-show and off-show. And off-show is special to build up, to build top sites and module construction. On-show and more towards petrochemical plant construction. And we are also moving into executing composite structures, a combination of structural steel and concrete, where we go in with design. So the last two years we've been hitting the 1 billion turnover. And my target within by the year 2017 to hit the 2 billion. And I wouldn't be surprised if I achieved it earlier than the 2017. Nor would I for that matter at this point. Very impressive indeed. I want to step back a little bit and ask you about, you know, we talked earlier about your days as an insurance salesman. How did you get your first break in the construction industry? I know there's a bit of a story with Nippon Steel and a certain Mr. Tameshi Yamaki. Construction came to me by chance. And I was not in the construction field, I was selling insurance. And it came by chance. And I was invited to execute some temporary structure steel work for the Diabumi project way back in 1982. And I met Mr. Tameshi Yamaki in 1983. And that time Malaysia was building the Protonsaga factory. That is the first Malaysian car plan. And he was stationed in Ipo where they were doing the fabrication. And they were looking for an erection contractor. I mean a contractor to install the structural steel. And I heard about the project and I went to meet up with him. So when I first met him and he was interviewing and he was asking a lot of questions. But he was looking very strongly into my eyes. And I looked into his eyes and I answered whatever question he asked. About 10 days later he came to my office, gave me a contract and I was shocked. Because he doesn't know me well and he has given me a sizable contract. And gave me a very short notice and I went and mobilized and started executing the work. After about 2-3 months he was going to Japan for a business visit. And at that time Subang Ipo, he went to check and I also went along to send him off. And after he was checking in, I asked him whether he would be free to have a drink. He said, fine. And one of the things which was bugging me is that why did he give me this project? On what basis? He doesn't know me. So I asked him, Mr. Yamaki, why did you give me this project? On what basis? I said to him, other than when you came to my office and as I was meeting and talking to you and I was looking into your eyes, your eyes did not run. That means I can trust you. So just looking into my eyes, he developed the trust within me and he gave me the contract. He only gave me that job opportunity, the rest of it. I capitalized on the relationship. I delivered whatever commitments I made and from one project led to another project. He's a very strict person. He doesn't give anything beyond that. But for me it's all about an opportunity. I capitalized on the opportunity and I made it work for me the way it should be in order to excel and progress and achieve whatever I want to achieve. I had my own share of ups and downs when I look back. Yes, I could have avoided some mistakes but I always look into all the positive side, what has brought success to me and made me where I am at today. So now when you look to develop the next generation of leaders that ever send I, what do you do? Do you look in their eyes? What are the attributes you're looking for? Purification is one aspect but I always look at a person whether he or she willing to listen, willing to learn, willing to work hard. As long a person is willing to listen, willing to learn, work together as a team and to work hard, it's easy to teach a person who's willing to listen. So that's the basic things when I look at a person. Obviously I look into the eyes, no doubt about it because a person who is sincere and genuine will only be able to look into your eyes but they will not be able to run away. When you all need to apply that, I test. Eye contact is one aspect but the most important is a person whether willing to listen or not. If a person is willing you can always, I'm a great believer in sharing, teaching, educating, motivating. I can always push a person to move forward to succeed. But then if a person is not willing to listen, you can't do anything with such kind of attitude. So I look into this kind of basic attitude and character within a person. I'm a strong believer in character building. So tell us a little more about that, about character building and how do you do that with your next generation? One of the most difficult, what one person go through is when you're fallen down to pull up, to get up and to move forward. That's very difficult. What I was able to do that is because one, I have a lot of perseverance within me. I'm very persistent. I'm very, very persistent. Talking about persistence, Petronas Tower was about to be awarded and I was living in Singapore at that time. At that time I was building a 66 story building in Singapore. It's a combination of concrete and steel and that's a similar structural element what they're using on the Petronas Towers. So I told myself, I have the experience and I want to build it. I already set my mind. Tower One was given to a Japanese company. By virtue of my exposure in the Japanese company, I was confident I'll be able to win it. I lost it. I was demoralized for two days thinking that, my God, I've lost the opportunity to build the tallest building in the world. Then I realized, hey, there is another tower. So I went and approached. The second tower that's Tower Two was awarded to a Korean company, Samsung. When I went and approached them, they said, sorry, we already made up our mind, whom to work with, no chance. So I was disappointed. But then I found out that they have not awarded the job yet. So I didn't give up because my mind already said that I must win this job. I went back again and again and again. I would have visited the office not less than about a dozen times and there were times they have been abusive. They even told me off that, why am I wasting their time? But I never gave up. One of the days when I went in to visit them, they invited me to have coffee. I was very surprised. Wow, not bad. So then they started into asking me questions about what I was doing and all. Now at the time I was doing the, as I told them, the Republic Plaza in Singapore, which is a 66-storey building. Then at the time we were already executing the KL Tower, the head and the mast. So I told the Korean guys, why don't you make a visit and see what we are doing? It's nothing like seeing because you don't know my track record. Is it okay? So at the time I was living in Singapore. So we fixed it and then from Singapore I drove all the way, picked up these three Korean gentlemen and drove all the way to Singapore. Those days from KL to Ramang is the highway. After that you have this windy road. It takes about some five and a half hours or two to reach Singapore. I started here and I did not stop anywhere. I only stopped at Singapore. I had them in the car. I was able to penetrate into them, develop a relationship and by the time we reached Singapore we were friends. The next day I took them to the site, showed them what I was doing. They were amazed. They went there only to investigate. They landed up in my office after the visit in the site and I was typing the MOU and we signed off. Very impressive. So I never gave up with them. It's because I set my mind, I must win the job. Because I didn't give up and I was so persistent, I was able to win the contract. And Petronas, that project has brought me many other projects. Because one good project brings another good project. Fascinating. You literally took them for a ride. Relationship building. No, I don't think people for a ride. No, you took them on a very constructive ride. I was going to say, I'm really curious as to your bridging that cultural divide with the Koreans as well, getting to know them, etc. So I know that Eversendai is planning to expand to a number of new countries to hit that $2 billion mark in the next couple of years. As a Malaysian, a very successful Malaysian entrepreneur, what do you think have been the keys to success in this global arena? Relationship. I maintain a very healthy relationship with my client, my staff and the people who I work with. I'm a strong believer in relationship and to always live up to my commitments to whomever I'm making. Those are the basics which I've used in order to expand and develop and grow the business. Clients, whoever, what a job to us, they do it based on trust because they believe in me because most of the clients in the early days they will ask me, can you make a commitment that you will deliver it? They don't look at what the contract I'm signing is only from my word. If I say I'll get it done, that's it. They will just go ahead and they know I will get it done. I will stand there even if I have to work 24 hours. I will be there to make sure I'll push. I will get the job done. And at the end of the day, clients want a project to be completed without compromising on the safety and the quality. So what you are completing all the projects on time, we have built up a very strong reputation. Today, ever since our reputation is something where it's riding so high and we become a sought after organization because they know we will deliver if a job is entrusted. And that's the way we expand and grow the business. So I always attribute relationship, commitment without compromising and obviously all goes with the people. I've been blessed with excellent people, people who are dedicated, loyal, hardworking. I've got a very strong battalion. If I move, they move with me. Fantastic people I have. The oldest employee I have is about 29 years. Second is about 25 plus. The rest of them, all the 21, 20, 15, 10, I've got a huge number of long-serving employees. I took care of them, I educate them, I nature them, I build them up. People who have come and joined the company are just engineers. Today they are directors of the company and they are all earning well. I met a lot of people successful in their own rights. And so I command the loyalty. And without the people, I don't think so, I'll be where I am today too, because I'm a strong believer, there is no way I can build all by myself. I need a team of people. And a team of people is one aspect, but whether do I have dedicated, committed, loyal, hardworking people, people who can work smartly. A lot of new people have come on board because the company has grown, expanded, and as I said to you that we are going to convert the company to 2 billion, we need much more people. And by God's grace, and my vision and my approach and the way I go about dealing with people, I've been able to bring in some good people. And human capital is something nowadays is becoming difficult, especially good people. People are abundant, but good people. I always believe the more effort we put in, we can get the people. So I'm moving forward. Well clearly your inspiration to many of your employees. So let's turn the tables. When you think of someone who you have admired, who you see as a source of inspiration, who's that person been in your life? Myself. No one has inspired me. I inspire myself. I motivate myself. Even if I were to do wrong, I penalize myself. It's all about me. No one person really came and advised me, guided me, did not show me the direction. It is just that I had the burning desire. I move forward. And along with it, I was given an opportunity and I grew up with the opportunity, made good use of it, and developed and grew. And along the way, I learned by realizing my own shortfalls, mistakes, and upgraded myself as I progressed in my life. Today, I share a lot of what I know to people at large. I conduct talks. I share, educate to whoever wants to capitalize on what I'm sharing. So I like to give. On that note, I want to ask one closing question. When you think of the legacy, both personal and professional, you want to leave behind you. What would you want your legacy to look like? Way back in 1980, early 84, while I was having a chat with Mr. Yamaki, I asked him where from Japan he comes from. He said, Sendai. I like the sound Sendai. I asked him what's the meaning of Sendai. He said, thousands of generations. I made it ever thousands of generations. That's how ever Sendai was formed, was born way back in 1984. Sendai is a city northeast of Tokyo, a city which was hit by a tsunami a few years ago. With the name, with the brand, with the reputation, we say it's generation. I want ever Sendai to go on forever. We have 11,000 employees on the payroll. When you multiply by 4 to a family, it's 44,000 people. I am committed, and I want to make sure this 44,000 plus the many, many more who is going to come and join this company to have their livelihood protected and they have a job. They look at towards the future, and I even have told my staff I would prefer even their children to come and work for ever Sendai if they're interested, and if they qualify. So what I'm looking at, it's all about future, the way how the company should move forward, how the company must move forward without compromising on basic principles. It's safety, quality, on-time completion, and I am very, very sure people whom I'm going to entrust the company towards the future, they will follow and they will uphold because I'm blessed with some great people. Thank you for watching today's edition of the Leaders Room. This is Rupa Rashid of the Iklif Center for Leadership and Governance, signing off until next time.