 Yeah, no, I have the same so I'd like to call the media to order And we do have some additions according to the select board memo review of errors and emissions personnel matters Ashby management project Are there any more additions? Discussion on speeding on County Road County Road speeding on County Road, not the event Okay But usually if it's a long item that you add in there's various penalties At what point do you reveal those penalties? That's not to be spoken of an open session. Is that with the secret handshake that we have? Review a minute July 24th. It's actually August 7th. It's August 7th. Yeah, well, that's a mispron. Yeah, okay August 7th, we're intentionally quiet here. It's like those PDF documents where you see this page is intentionally left blank We're doing some reading. So does anybody have any comments on the minutes? I'll make a motion to set the minutes Any further discussion about the minutes All the affirmative or not all those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. The eyes appear to have they do have it So Gina, I'll go ahead and make the changes and send you the PDF Take out your draft. Yeah And Do we have any public comment? I'm here to talk about the town garage Okay But we have an item on the agenda the town garage Delinquent and what's that? I'm just here later when you can see the fiber Discussion if there's any questions on that and I'll to be here about sand or a circle and What the repair plans are for our road and flowering and so forth Okay So the next item on the agenda is a delinquent tax collector report Okay I'll be brief. I gave you guys a list Yep And after going through all the notes and talking with our attorney I think the first step is we need to give him the list of the 10 people Yeah, and I think we should take all 10. I don't think there should be any of you So that'll be the first step I'm gonna give him the list once we get that going he'll start I kind of briefed you how it works, but he'll send out the letters and usually people pay this first round Well, he said generally most people will try to pay yeah, so but at least that'll get it going so that's that's Yeah, and right now we're The definition delinquent is over one year in the rears and attacks Not not the six month payment So the first payment you're not delinquent you go to second year. You don't pay it then you become delinquent See what I mean? These are more than one year delinquent One year So this is not May 16th They're right. This is May 16th the next year. Yeah. Yeah. Well the town is always Historically waited for at least two years before initiating the tax process. So that's why yeah, yeah I think that if you pay all your taxes by the second payment, that's what does that concern? Yeah, they're late. Yeah, if you don't pay after the May payment you're delinquent. Yes. Yeah, exactly Theoretically After one day after the one after the yeah, yeah on the one day on the 16th Yes, yes, I mean a lot of places do do that a lot of places do hard with this I think that's what you do to tax every year. Yeah in the fall of each year the delinquent tax collector Sends a town's attorney a list of delinquent properties for tax sale After receiving the list of delinquent properties from the DTC the town attorney prepares a tax sale engagement letter After 30 days a DTC and attorneys will see who has paid and so on. We have a policy here And it's not to go out after one day We cannot theoretically go out after one day because we've decided already But some generically you can right right Okay, so Is there anything more you wonder well the link with these down, I mean if you saw that yeah I mean we got two states that paid off this year, which is very good Yeah, so we're in a good spot, and I think I think the majority of these people will clear up before they go too far So that's my some Yeah, yeah, yeah, some are you know been on there a long time. So yeah, but you know hey, we'll try Yep, so Okay, tax bills went out last week. They were mailed today. Yeah, so they're gone. Yeah, and the audits pretty much done Breathe again, I think one thing that you did mention to that we're better often. We were last year Yes, you know we've had in the past. We've had a very large property owner that was the link and this year that didn't occur. I guess I Don't know who you're talking about Yeah Yeah, did I no no Yeah, I just I'm not sure but I think she was Like a whisper Anyway, that's fine that you can you can talk about if you want to yes, it's not against a lot of officer name We'll show up in a newspaper when you put it up for tax. Yeah, right Okay No, that's anything have any questions for me Good job We're getting there we're getting there one year down It's a process and thank you. Yep. You're welcome. All right You don't want to hang around Interesting stock could be so boring See you soon and let's let's make some money. Yeah This week, okay, so good. Thank you. All right. Yeah. Bye. So the next item is consideration of justice Oh How many do we need one one is one they're both really good candidates. Yeah both candidates go good. Yeah Yeah, so Rosie, are you on the meeting? Yeah, could you hey Could you walk us through the process that you that we need to follow and that you used to Getting us thus far we're With an independent when an independent JP Resigns there is no party to caucus to replace them So according to the governor's office, we need to recruit candidates Approve the candidates through the select board and then send all approved candidates to the governor's office for a selection for a final appointment That's only because they do not belong to a political party My belief her name is Stacy she's in charge of all of the appointments Tracy possibly I'm sorry. Are you seeing possibly? Possibly I don't have my email open in front of me. I'm sorry Carl. Okay, so um So we would approve one of these candidates and then you would take it from there You will approve both names Okay, and the governor's office decides which ones which one will be appointed It's really kind of it's a strange situation because again, there is no party who can handle this so the governor's office says Just run it through your select board have them approve the names in the event that someone we get a candidate That's for some reason not appropriate. I guess you could screen them there And so by approving both of the candidates We would I would send them tomorrow to the governor's office, and they would decide which one they wish to appoint Okay sound good to me So, you know a motion to approve both candidates We have a second We have a second The motion is to approve both candidates for the justice of the peace position To forward to the governor's office for selection for the appointment Is there further further discussion on this Is there any further discussion about this you can't All those in favor, please say hi the eyes appear to have they do have Yeah, appreciate that Each small parent fire department meeting update I attended Zoe attended it was a wonderful meeting Well run perfect thought mediocre anyway. Oh, absolutely Is I could say They had I'm gonna keep a vanilla Between You have a lot of intuition. Okay, any questions I just I've read through all the financial reports is sure pretty well pretty well done Perfect. I think there was a number of mistakes. Yeah, but I just think they were they were fairly clear and easy to read though Yeah, it was more Not necessarily the stakes as much as miscoding that they were trying to get actual results aligned with the budget so I look like they spent over budget over budget, but there was some yeah, miss miss steps Paul sent a revised version. I think with some of those reclassifications. They mentioned this afternoon. Yeah, but Okay, so the next item is the town garage project update So the first thing we've got to consider is consideration of wetlands consultant to evaluate the vacant parcel You know can update us on that So era would environmental Dory Barton is who I communicated with then Dory just to let you I don't know if John has any experience working with Dory But Kathleen Gent who's helping us with this RFP has worked with Dory in the past Has very positive interactions with her So Dory can do what she calls a preliminary walk around to essentially informally map the wetlands Essentially to get an idea of a buildable area because typically to do a wetlands delineation She asked me can you give me your site plan where this is going on the property? I said that's the problem. We need to determine where we can actually put a building upon this property So this is a step one for her to evaluate the parcel determine where the buildable areas are This is a pretty minimal effort. She said estimate $800 ish For something like this because this is at a pretty high level Next steps would be wetlands delineation when we determine where we would actually then want to put that building And then that is when she would formally Outline where the wetlands are on that property to get the necessary buffer. We would need around the building All that assumes that we have a positive first approach to this Can I ask a question? Yes, you can I was wondering how well the or how bad the That particular piece of property behind the current town garage survived the flooding in high waters I'm just thinking that if you're building a wetland, you know what there's going to be water there Yeah, but it doesn't really appear to be a wetland Yeah, I look at the wetlands map. Yeah, it just I've been out there Go around and this and that yeah I just was wondering but it's probably a wetland somewhere. I'm not really sure where Different levels of wetlands. It used to be a well in like 2015 years ago What was it? I think so and there's two ponds on each side too. It shows them anyway So that's that's why I asked that question. So there was no flooding Not that I don't know. I don't know. I haven't driven around there since but it appears to be High and dry when you drive around well not to the road, but this parcel this is back Beyond the road. So I don't know what the land is exactly doing. I don't know that anyone Yeah, so I don't know anyone that anyone can really say definitively what There's stuff stacked out there and culverts and just that everything else. Yeah, right. It doesn't make the final We've been up there. Yeah. Yeah, but for the back. Yeah Pretty far back Okay, did you run past her the question about the recent supreme court ruling and how that affects the I did not we think we did not get into that level of detail for this for this purpose No, it's an opportunity to do it on the walker. Yeah So I I think we should proceed ahead with this but It's a pretty minimal fee. We need to get information coming as quick as we can And she's Well, we're it'd be the end of september Sometime in october. So this will I don't know that we will have any additional steps taken On this be able to the the seasonal end the beginning of november So I don't know how far we're going to get that's part of the conversation. We need to have about the town garage Well as soon as we get her out in the back, so that's the only way we're going to be able to move that We should do it So you want me to do a motion do a motion to accept the uh, we need one I mean, it's a you're gonna have to have a contract pretty minimal Amount of money. So we could we could make We make a motion to hire just to make a motion to hire in order to accept the um the pricing structure that arrow would environmental provided to the town and to Authorize the town administrator to enter an agreement arrow arrow would environmental Any further discussion All is in favor, please say aye All right, so oh on the town garage wasn't Andy gonna You have a few bullets What's that? The next one is the energy committee Okay You ready Yeah, so we discussed this in the energy committee You did you did want an energy committee, right? Okay The energy committee would like to ensure that the current are a process for the town garage does not end up building a structure That has low initial cost, but high long-term cost and high carbon emissions The committee recommends that the town look at what other Vermont towns have done recently in the garage projects In which talking to Guthrie. He's done a little bit of that already establish energy functional and environmental goals and consider a Design build process in other words hire an architect as elements of the forthcoming RFP So the carbon emissions there's two pieces to that one is of course the energy that's spent in the building And the other is the energy impact of the materials you choose to build it out of So for example a butler building that's all steel has very high carbon emissions Right off the bat whereas a wood building has much much less So that that's what we'd like to suggest happen for here Will it slow down your process? It may probably But it will end up with a building that I think we all would like to live with for the next I don't know It could be here for a hundred years um, would you be willing to provide the select board with Some pros and cons of going with metal and going and going with wood The wood structure, I think you will you end up having to have it sprinkled It depends on the size of the building anyway if you have to have it sprinkled Yeah, I guess we well, I mean those are good points That we need to bring up as we move along you would think that you you guys probably evaluated this sort of thing You did talk about the carbon The cost of the environment for metal and it's less for wood. What are some of the other? Pros of using wood More energy efficient Because steel is so conductive of heat wood is not see it's it's not a good insulator, but it's an insulator Yeah, we built the the fire stations of wood building And it's quite durable and and efficient I think just to editorialize a little bit I think the design of the fire station kind of got away from us It's hard sometimes with architects to remember who's working for who and so it's important You know, I pushed for a much simpler design, but I lost that battle But we did get an efficient building out of it nonetheless In these buildings where you bring in many many tons of very cold steel covered with ice and water in the winter Have huge energy loads when you bring these buildings in and so We want to be cognizant of that and Make sure we've got a building that's gonna gonna be efficient use the least energy possible I think you're referring to the vehicles being brought into the building. Yeah, exactly. Yeah Okay, how do you how do you mitigate that wood's not going to help that too much No, it's what you make that heat with is the question And heat pumps aren't up to the task You need well over 100,000 sometimes 200,000 BTU is an hour to warm the place up readily and radiant floor like they've gotten half the garage right now Is really helpful in terms of drying things out And that's hard to do with heat pumps unless you go with a ground source heat pump but Those are expensive, but right now the feds are paying Like 40% of the cost on the ground source heat pumps. So It's worth looking into I think by doing a design process you give yourself time to look at all of these options And figure out what you want to do. Typically what we start with is a conversation with you all with Guthrie and I guess I should I should introduce the fact that I've been a high performance building design consult for about 30 years So the I've been saying 30 for a while now though Um And what we typically do is start start with your goals. What is it you want to accomplish in this building? Obviously, there's all the the Programmatic needs that and and Guthrie ran me through some of those when I went looked at the building Um, and it's pretty clear you need some more space in there among other things and um So the along with the programmatic What's the environmental program that you want to have happen here in terms of your material selection the embodied carbon the energy consumption Air quality and so on the mechanical systems in the fire department were done as a design build And the ventilation system they put in was totally inadequate to handle the moisture load That's represented when you melt all that ice off of the trucks when they come in um, so That's an example of why you want these things designed instead of Going to a design built situation Okay So it sounds like um as we move on the process We'll be consulting uh the energy committee Or you can also when you don't be involved with g r i p for for an for engineers or slash architects You can just put some that information in there. Yeah as I need Right See we were thinking of design build as one entity well sometimes they do that I mean the central monsoil waste district they actually one engineering company um, just matched up with an architectural company and they submitted a Uh proposal together So essentially it's designed build because they're both in on that together. Yeah So what makes sense in terms of integrating This advice into our process would it be helpful to ask kathleen to be in touch with andy for example I think that's not really the scope that we had discussed with kathleen It was a different that now we're getting into exactly what I originally brought to go and get was to somebody to actually scope this out Fully for an rfp. We decided to go a simpler route This is now getting into the complicated side that that what I brought initially so we need to make a decision as to whether We want to reverse our previous that's what i'm coming to you all tonight because this is This could quickly become my job Which I don't have time for right now So if july 10 patent happened Things would be a little bit better. I don't think kathleen could handle that She possibly could but we need to define who's involved I think we need to define the stakeholders that are involved that can have direct communication And that's one of the pieces I wanted to discuss with you all in my previous history while I know that was with corporations But you have a project team Put it in a town term perhaps a committee That is responsible. That's all the stakeholders that are involved that are going to be providing feedback that are going to be providing information That are working together on this And you would have a project manager overseeing all of this We don't have that Andy would you be willing to describe for us, uh, how the process worked with the fire station? um We're going back a little ways so I uh Any memory lapses I hope will be forgiven here But yeah, there was a process to go out and select an architect There was a team that that was mostly the fire department which um, I was on that committee with them And an architect was selected And we worked with them on the design and reviewed the design. So the fire department provided the committee So you need you need an owner's committee and um Um Oftentimes entities such as towns will hire an owner's rep for these kind of projects somebody that knows the construction world Um, you're really playing in somebody else's ball field otherwise Um, but that doesn't always happen. I didn't happen for the for the fire department. I don't believe and uh scott and partners were the architects, um, and um Then they finished the design and then it went out to bid that They had all the engineers on board they needed Although they didn't they didn't do You know, they were able to give you a lower cost or get the fire department a lower cost for the design Because they didn't include the engineering for the mechanicals. Um, and You either pay the engineer or you pay the contractor to have their engineer do it It's not like the engineering doesn't get done It's just which pot of money it comes out of design or construction And when it comes out of design then you have some control over the process because you can review these things as they go along In theory you can you can um review that with a design build but in my experience you don't get very far and um It doesn't work all that well They pretty much want to do what they're used to doing The the contractor as opposed to what you may want to get a good building And I will tell you I have some experience in my construction background I mean my wife's company right now is doing a design build with a firm that builds apartment So it does happen that you do that. Oh, yeah, it happens a lot. Yeah It's actually saved her company quite a bit of money That's the reason the salt waste issue went with the combination architect and engineer Because it was significant less less money. Yeah, then going with two separate entities and paying full both both One challenge and one concern that we have right now It's an even Kathleen has said this to me what we're putting together is rather generic That's very difficult when you take that out to an rfp to get any clarity on exactly what your costs are going to be If we are not Very clearly spelling out What we're looking for it's hard to get Good numbers. So it could end up costing more in the end of the day so it's I want to mention this because I don't think we have a very Well-defined process right now for moving forward with this. I think we need to do that I also think we need to be practical on the time frame that this is going to take and then considering This the primary use of future ARPA funds We we have to have funds committed by the end of 24 So, you know, here we are Almost the end of august trying to get just a wetlands. We don't even know what buildable area we have on that property right now this project I don't know what will be happening with it A few months from now So but the key for me is I think we needed to find Who's involved with this because one comment in this energy committee statement is that the town consider Or look at what other Vermont towns have done If someone would like to step up and do that Please I welcome them, but the town staff. I we don't have capacity. I don't have capacity to do that right now So, okay I mean, I know all some town garages are being built by a local company Okay I did reach out to cabbage. That was the one we toured Cabot, of course, just like everyone is dealing with post flood and could not get me information right now They had to pack everything up in their office and they're still in the midst of trying to put themselves back together So, yeah, I can get a list of the projects that have just been built in our going Being there are some projects Yeah being built right. I think there's some steep grad just being built too. Yeah, there's town garages being built But again the purpose and help of a committee or some kind of assigned group is that that group can reach out to These towns to get the information. We just dissolved our town garage committee Well, that committee would have been me doing all of that. That's my point. I'm trying to get this outside of my office well, I know the the solid waste district has actually two two specialists that are overseeing The design of that facility just happened to be they just they hired those two what I kind of question why they need two But yeah, so they do have something to just have as a side part of someone's job Right. This is a pretty big project and that's what Kathleen and I have discussed over and over again And she's like this is a big project and it's going to be more expensive. It's not only building a pole barn It we don't have at weights fields. You had commented on weights fields rfp. I read that It's very generic weights field is building their building on their current site where their current building is We don't know where our septic is. We don't know what the wetlands implications are. We have a stream behind our building We have it's it's not the same ours is a lot more complicated so what are you So we're saying that Kathleen jen does not have clarity what she's going to be putting out We need to figure out. I would need to talk to her about again We were we kind of hired her at a high level where we're changing if we want to dig into this a lot further than We're changing what we hired her to the scope is changing correct You said that was formerly there was a garage committee. Yes, Sony. It was we got three and Is there expertise? Is there expertise in the community that Engineers whatever that might want to help us out with this just Very well, I think we're going to decide was that was that this Yeah, we're putting more layers and okay all right, so Ideally to me you would hire someone You would hire a project manager consultant whatever type of whatever central Vermont solid waste did It's that's they're building a specific facility. The household has this waste reception area So they needed it. So they needed so many of that expertise, right? But we need as a town to say what it is that we want And that's the big one. We have not clearly said whether we want Generic metal building or a more efficient wood building and looked at how much we're willing to pay For the more efficient building So we we have some decisions that we can't hoist onto someone we hire to be project manager right to make ourselves Yeah, well, I think the manager is someone who would bring you ask the questions and the project manager would bring you the data To make the question to answer you for you to be able to choose Right like maybe someone that can say whether it was possible to Create a building in the amount of the time frame that we have to incorporate our funding and the limited time frame Because if that was possible it makes sense to maybe spend more money now and then not have to pay so much for energy costs later Especially since our funding would be available I mean, but to answer that question wouldn't So you get the engineering aspects of this and you have the architectural aspects of this I mean, that's the same thing that does all waste district is doing there They're actually looking at the the site now to see, you know, uh, what stormwater considerations are um If to see if it's a brownfield to see if they have some issues with hazardous materials It might be in the ground already because it was sited at one time because of an oily So that's and actually so we went out with a rfp For engineering and architectural went out for two And took one Why couldn't we do the same thing those engineers are going to do the same thing They're going to do the engineering part of it We should be wastewater siding all that stuff And then the architect's going to do everything else for the energy committee might want what we want And what what Guthrie needs to have for programming that would all be in there So why can't you just go out for Or And just go out for engineering and for architectural services and say we'll also entertain A response requests are not a request but a response to our proposals or our requests Um From a consolidated group of an engineer and architect without the design bill No, I guess no, there's no engineer right then you can hire your construction company if you want to do that But I mean since we have it since we have such a complicated more complicated building It might make sense to go out for both an engineer and an architect They can sit down and say, you know, you and we'll pick somebody who's built town garage before We'll pick somebody who's who's dealt with wetlands and dealt with wet sites and this sort of thing And and we'll say, okay Give us tonight, you know, this is what Guthrie needs. This is what we generally want. This is what the What the uh energy committee wants Why don't you give us a little bit of an idea what you would consider building and then they might show you a bunch of Well, they will show you a bunch of ones that they were involved in and right and then you can pick and choose what you want So does it make sense to do the rsp right now for that type of service rather than go with the wetlands No, I think the wetlands person is going to give us a data that we need I think so, but but I do think that Why waste your time and and what's why fiddle around let's just send out our fee if we don't like them We don't accept any of them. Right. I agree. And then she's already written to our fees. Oh, yeah She's we're in the process. She's just trying to get a more clearly defined scope and I think that shouldn't be a killer end up going generic And it's it won't be figured out by the engineer and architect. Well, the folks are not gonna apply if they've never built a town garage And if they do apply and they do say, yeah, we've never built one, but we'd like to try we probably won't take them Right. Yeah, and I'll take some of those experience right and we're going to be concerned about the cost But cost won't be the primary thing Because because sometimes if you go with a little bit or you might not you might go with a personal least amount of experience And then we look into their background and and say, okay, we're gonna talk to these guys We'll have a meeting and we'll do it. So now I'm still who's a we, you know this who's going to be the people representing the town of East Montpelier That was going to be my next question. So when this person's hired, who were they reporting to? Right? They can report to us, why not? Yeah, they're going to be just like talking to the sheriff's department They're going to have a contract and an agreement eventually and they're going to come in here and they're going to Give us a proposal or not a proposal so much, but it's an idea of what their designs would look like and then we can Tailor them if we want to I think there's a level of detail beyond what we're accustomed to doing at the select board level So it's not a it's not a detail that I'm not accustomed to and I do it that stuff every single day So you should be at the committee. I'm fine with that But I think the select board will make some final decisions about the design But as far as the building goes on a day-to-day basis There needs to be some some group of people that can interact with the folks that we hire who are empowered to Ask them questions Get feedback and prepare something to present to the select board as well. Okay, but for not initially though Initially, we can make the decision to hire who we want to hire Well, that's after we hire the architect engineer, correct? The rfp you all I think of course can you know make the decision who we hire I'm more concerned about what Carl's discussing right now, which is after that person's hire What is that process to design that building now? We can experience a relatively small committee is helpful Someone from the select board got three and maybe somebody from the energy committee and that would be a Good type committee Yeah It's not a committee. This is you want as few people and you should have your defined hats on in this in this process Okay, so initially though, we've already hired somebody to do the wetlands delineation The second thing that we're dealing with is Kathleen jen and the rfp Yeah, and we could ask and we can Kathleen to be the person to to receive the information from these folks and to set up the meetings And be here. Yeah, why can't we just have her do it? So, I mean, that's what she did for the salt waste district She was a manager of the salt waste district. So and then she went out she went out to bid on you know, we were trying get This facility bill we're still trying to get bill but still but a lot of stuff Okay, so have we decided what the rfp's gonna say? We're gonna look for architect engineer services People have experience ability and designing uh energy efficient A garage in in the northeast in the northern In new england. Yeah, okay, and and the engineering company that it has participated in and um creating the the mechanics and the structures and Insighting a facility in a not so perfect place Are there experts that builds Stuff for vitran that's 200,000 square feet or something that we need that's whatever 10,000 square feet Are there different levels of expertise of building ten garages? That we wanted that we would want to ask for bids from I think if you require having built ten garages, you're going to narrow your field down too much Okay, some some if we just put it out as john suggested We'll see what happens And we should get some good bids. We didn't get a lot of feet. We got maybe three proposals back And we sent out a request for proposals so we could look at what their background was and then there was one that was a combined one And we asked for pricing and they gave us pricing and everything and we took them Yeah, and in your experience Are there firms who might be qualified to put in a standard metal building? Who we would not want to not sorry to be responsible for the design and build and engineering Of a standard metal building who we would not want to hire to Put in an energy efficient building well, I think when you Have a design and then you go out for bid for it. You can do what's called qualified bid list and That can be a two-stage process where you get or you send a request for qualifications And then you review the qualifications And then you select the bidders from that list who have the proper qualifications to do the actual bid Right. So let me rephrase my question and see if I can be clear I'm talking about the current process where we're writing an rfp for engineering and architecture firms to reply to Are there some folks who might reply to that would be qualified to do a Butler building But not be qualified to do an energy efficient building What I'm getting at is do we need to put something in about what we want Along those lines in the rfp itself the type of building that we would prefer to have a wooden structure if possible Yeah About the energy efficiency and the carbon emissions even that it all show up in the rfp. Yeah Yeah, so so So are we narrowing in on putting that information in the rfp that we want to be able to consider that Yeah, yeah, okay Yeah, yeah, okay, we would anyway so do we have ferrity and what to say to kathleen jen Sure No, I mean do you want I can talk with kathleen too. I can send you what her latest is Again, she's trying to get to a more detailed kind of really more of what andy's was talking about that He would want to do a more detailed document But we can we can back off and go as basic and generic as we want But we can look at it They're going to do what you want to do in the end The whoever we we pick we'll do what we want. You just want to look at their quality But what we're saying is that I don't want to narrow it down to the type of person that we can work with Right, just to come up with the energy efficiency. Yeah so And you have some familiarity on what she did with central limon solid waste So you can also speak to her if you do want her to help receive the bids and Provide feedback on those that's clearly not something we had discussed as part of her scope And we had we had We still have it We had an ad hoc facilities committee, which Essentially is not committee that makes the final decision on everything But they were a group of people and we had fortunate enough to have a couple engineers who were on the committee Who gave feedback and had? Discussions with the architects and with the engineers right at the same on the same table We were able to get across to them Some specific things that saved us some money And also get across to them the point of what we wanted. Yeah So there's going to be some give and take you're going to once you decide who you're going to take You have to sit down and talk to them about what you want at that point They they kind of have an idea, but they might throw some ideas out They'll show up at the table with some ideas. You'll say yeah, that's fine But this we want would like this this and that possible It's just going to be and it'll be a group of people like you just outlined. Yeah a small committee. Yeah okay, so Let's do the rfp, but we just gotta look at the language Yeah Okay, and if you have meetings you'll just warm your meetings and warm as a committee to this support Yeah, so we had to do it Yeah, I get it. So okay We don't have to make it too complicated. No Are we all So we set with the language Tantively for the rfp I'm looking for an architect engineer. I will bring you all the draft Uh, potentially the next meeting that I'm on vacation For a solid week between this one and that one. So I don't know how much I will be able to delve into this Prior to that Well, can you just pass on a couple of names like to john and myself? Or whatever like no no if she wants to get in touch with us about the language as you're going Okay, that's all I'm saying. Yeah, because we can meet with kathleen. Sure. Yeah, and and um We'll look at her draft And say, okay. Well, so we need to have in there and there aren't so like I said the department of buildings Overseas the construction of buildings all over the place And most and many of the buildings state government are operated by department buildings are actually owned by department buildings And so they have rfds. Yeah, so we can we can tag onto those too. So Oh, yeah, she knows what she's doing. Yeah, so let's just do that So I'm just saying that if she's if you're gone and she needs to reach out to John reach out to myself and we can try to get this thing together. Yeah, so She's really close. I think you're going to be impressed with what's already there. Oh, yeah, I'm sure she's doing a good job She doesn't really know I yeah, I'm familiar with kathleen. She's great to work with. Yeah, she does does the job So Oh, so we have some more bullets in your memo. That's it. We've covered everything Okay, all right Okay, well, are you all set Andy? Yeah, I'd be happy to do review of uh rfp if that would be helpful Sure. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, thank you for your input. You're gonna be part of the ad hoc committee. Yeah Sounds good Thank you all. Thank you. Yeah Um, so the next item is the fire department here. I don't know we we're ahead of schedule So are you are you here for something? What are we here for? Well, they may have come for the fire department update Which we finished before it was scheduled to come up. Yeah, we were way ahead of schedule So I just thought I'd mention that they're here. So it's nice to see you guys though. Oh, I don't know. Okay, so Is there a specific item that you want to weigh in on or no, I just wanted to listen Which I have to say about our meeting we had. We just said it was great and everybody was happy That's all it was No, no questions and There's just an issue with coding. It's a little bit of coding. Yeah, just a few things I got around and we That's not a big deal. So Yeah, yeah, I think everybody's pretty pleased with what you guys are doing All right, glad to hear it. I just thought if there was additional questions Thanks for coming over. I'm trying to get the answer. Do you have comments? Do you have any comments? No, I think it's great that you said that. How does the select board representatives do at the meeting? Not just kidding Well, new building you're talking about make sure that we get three days three You said two I think we'll discuss those Why are you guys getting a greater Well, determine what your needs are. There was a discussion in an organized way about station one And what the future plans work with that building. Yeah, all the answers were mentioned out of my mouth. Yes And which then got into a a discussion about that there's a possibility Depending on what we find with site. Yes, something we may have to consider Is the existing sites that we have in this area? That's what I was saying. I think Would that be beneficial for the fire department to have There's a brand shiny There's issues with the buildings there. Yeah, the fire station number one There's some issues Yeah Yeah, so maybe we can resolve the whole thing and because down to the Point where we can't find a really good area there We just tear down the old building and not necessarily the fire department But uh, but the town garage is there and just go for it. I help Well the discussion went to If they had bays in the new building would that be more beneficial for them? Oh Then existing building Okay Okay, so there were any questions when we came up to the items about the fire site everything was very clear That's fine Yeah, yeah address it Okay, so well, thank you guys. Appreciate it. Appreciate it Um So the next item is discussion engineering and estimated services for road projects So as the board is aware, yeah Doug Newton the previous engineer. Yeah worked on all of your highway projects. Is it longer with us? Yeah, and we have not had to really embark upon getting anything engineered until july 10 Yeah, so We need to move forward with identifying an engineer that can work with us on future highway projects So chase and chase Has basically added to their practice and and now has an engineer who actually did work with us on the county road culverts. Yeah, ryan Did the review of all of those in the oversight of that and did a great job with that. Yeah, so I received a letter from chase and chase and kind of outlines their hourly rates to hopefully move forward with chase and chase essentially as the successor engineer for town highway projects Guthrie and I are actually meeting with ryan in the morning to go to three locations one of which is sander circle To Start discussions on what we may need at sander circle the three locations in particular sander circle sphero farm and actually to go Look at gaiette road as well because gaiette last wednesday had Water going across the road. So clearly have an undersized culvert there that we likely need to address and Light of recently. Yeah, well, I said in light of recent rain Could become our new normal. So Guthrie had mentioned Potentially taking ryan to gaiette as well, but definitely sander circle and sphero farm road both of those projects sander circle We will then likely hire and contract out that work sphero farm The road through will probably be able to do but we still need to have engineer drawings on What we need to do So really i'm just asking the board for approval to Kind of consider changing chase the successor to doug newton And we're satisfied with the work that they did last year. Yeah, very very much. It seems like that's a good option now. We haven't really Explored what the other options are. I don't even know what they're on I don't know what's available. There could be other options There would likely be a large learning curve to go in with any other option Ideally you get somebody that you work with on a regular basis just like you did with doug Because they get to know your town they get to know your crew to know everything So it tends to be more efficient and honestly most more cost effective in the long run When you have an established relationship with someone so From a rate perspective, I mean chase and chase is It's standard rates. I mean, you know For this type of work I think if anything they could end up we could end up saving money with them simply because they do know our towns that well Compared to someone that does not Ideally you get a retired person who's a great expert in charges of fittings like doug did but That is that is one that is that is one conversation that I did have with ryan Was that obviously we are well aware that we are now paying rates for someone That's actually there are people that are actually trying to you know make A living and yeah, yeah Sustain a lifestyle and actual income. Then yeah, I mean so clearly it We will be incurring more engineering costs than we have in the past. But that's simply because Yeah, there's no it's someone's not doing it. Is there hobby now? I don't know if the doug is I don't know if there's another doug around I'm not familiar with that so And I mean doug did work with chase and chase in the past as well. I don't know how many projects i've gone through There's invoices from the two on the same project. So, you know, I know that doug's wife passed all of his old files to Chase and chase as well. Oh, yeah So, you know, it certainly it They kind of are Ish If doug could have passed a torch. That's kind of what has happened And it says in the letter that ryan has experienced in many engineering disciples, so maybe you can get some of his disciples to Technicians engineering technicians Um, okay, so I guess that's gonna work. So we will start essentially tomorrow morning with them Okay Is So I'll answer the question what they've done is they prioritized areas in town where the roads are washed out completely People can drive So every road has washouts on it like hammer hill. I drive all the back roads and these multiplayer and they're all bad But it's a priority thing. It's like get the get the Roads passable horn of the moon this that and everything else the other thing that's going on Because it rains so much and so frequently It's hard to do the repair work and get it so it's going to hold up when it's pouring rain at the same time So that's why a lot of the repairs are sort of aren't old right now They'll get to it I'm just concerned because school is starting And that road is a As you know back road into East Montpelier elementary school. The traffic is going to increase A lot shortly and all the uh farming people are Running up and down there with rigs and we can't get No, we'll put a stop to that. Yeah I mean vehicles in my rings are extremely wide, but I can get off the road, you know, it's like But I'm not I'm not so worried about your guys It's the farm beyond you. Oh, yeah. Well, they take they take up the whole road They don't slow down and they don't pull Yeah, I know and their stuff's bigger than yours, which is substantial Yeah, yeah, I get it my two cents worth. That's all All right, but then you've got the ski then you've got the ski pole stock at the top of the hill over there And you can't pull over that's you're in the middle of the road That's something comes over the brow of the hill and you've got ski poles there And you're in the middle of the road and you got a car full of kids headed right for you. Yeah, it's happens It's like, where am I going to go here? Yeah over the ski poles. I put one up through the tire. I mean really Okay, I don't really want to talk about that. Anyway, yeah, we just want I just want to bring that up Okay, thank you. Yeah, okay Tom had his hand up. I saw that okay, but ken was talking so yes Um, I just for your proper topic. I just wanted to mention that that sander circle location Is a bit of a hazard And I've stuck a couple pieces of wood up with signs up that say row out But it might be good to get something more official in place that keeps roll from running full steam down that hill I'm not sure if he's actually ordered them, but got three had gotten pricing on jersey barriers Um to actually put jersey barriers up at each end to tell people the road is closed Does stuff stuff stay there stay in the road? I know he was complaining a little bit about his cones disappearing Oh people were taking stuff all the time. I mean when the rain was coming down on July 10th that Monday They had roads they were that were flooded the guys were trying to work because they were trying to clear Culverts and keep things functioning as water flowing as best as they could people were just ripping the things out of the way and just Going on Oh, yeah that I saw it with him when I was out on Tuesday morning Yeah, it's it's tough. I mean so Take jersey barriers out of it. Yeah, jersey barrier is going to be a little bit harder to do that with which is why that's the If he needs someone I have someone at the farm Some jersey barriers that we're giving him we have a bunch of If he needs to bring them over So is there is there no Is there's no signage there there's States other than the two I have to put up. There's no signage There's steaks and uh There's steaks in some orange line that they're within about 10 feet of for 15 feet native where the actual 10 foot problem And it's a pretty steep down hill. So you don't want to give somebody a couple hundred feet of Advanced notice that they're headed towards the disaster. You need some cones probably at least A sign too. Yeah I think that's what we're saying is the top of the hill. Something I've noticed. Yeah, all right. Okay Good to know. And if um, if it's going to be more than three or four months Um, we probably wouldn't have thought towards plowing and how things are going to shift with Through a company that's saying like I've already discussed in school. Let's talk about school blessing, but um Yeah, I think it's going to be quite a while, right? Well one we're going in the winter so I know right of course It's Yeah, we don't we don't yet even have anything on that one size culvert Right. It's currently working with jaren borg who is our stream alteration engineer You might have to have a high job hydraulic study. Yeah, no way Yeah, it may be time to impress the people who live on the road to get them out there with their shovels We used to do in the old days Well, I think I don't think it will stay there though I think it means a better signs and if we had jersey barriers here, then that's a good idea because then you can't go down into Signs were an issue for every small town when this happened because no one is sitting on signage to have That was a text the last text. I think I got from got three the monday night The ring was coming down was one problem. I know I'm going to have is I do not have enough Yeah Anything to mark. Well, that was an immediate aftermath now that we're down to a few areas I mean, we have all the signs from county road last year still, right? I have to put each together with the jersey barrier up the top of the hill. Yeah, so people don't even go down So so we just well within homes you have to that's part. Yeah, right So can we come up with an idea where we might have signs over there? I don't know. We have to talk together See what he's got available. Okay, we'll do that We'll reach out. Okay, so The next item is review Uh, I think we're done with the Services for road projects. Do we need um, do we need a motion to employ chase chase? Yeah, we might have for the county road, I think we did actually We could Go ahead Carl Let me just think about this. Are we doing we're not hiring chase and chase for a specific project at this point We're having a look at projects. We're just saying taken Yeah, but there will be a fee involved And they'll send us a contract Is there a spot is there a spot in the budget? Do we have a line item in the budget for all of these costs? We'll be going to the FEMA line item. Yeah. That's not in the budget. It's a FEMA So maybe maybe the next step is for you to convey to them that we've said yes and for them to send us a contract And then we can vote to approve it. Yeah, I sound good. Okay Okay, so the next item is review of cv5 or audit annual report Is that you're here for that? And and also to ask and answer any questions and we had we exchanged voicemails and I didn't complete the loop to get back to you So we'd love to hear from you about question that I put to you which was We as a town have donated $100,000 to cv5 or to amongst other things help pay connection fees for people and we're wondering just how that's being applied in the light of What we've heard about connection fees just informally through the town's person Yeah, I have been following up on that periodically over the last few months And kind of been told, you know, there's a process for one through it We have other things to worry about when I finally got down to okay. Well now I need an answer It was kind of a oh well how it works Is that the money is being used in a way that allows them to roll out service to more people in our town faster Is essentially how it works. Yeah, that it's $1,500 per place per site that needs to get attached to the fiber The cost to the customer is typically only $99 depending on the situation and so that extra $1,401 is picked up by cv5 and The speed at which we can make our way through the town is kind of some Calculus along looking at how many $1,401 drops do we need to make and where else are we building And what other backbone needs to get built somewhere else and so forth? And so the answer I was given was Uh, this will the money has allowed them to build faster in East Montpelier than they would have otherwise Not the build of the actual backbone, but the ability to put in drops to houses Is faster here than it would be otherwise Whether that's a satisfying answer or not. I don't know and I welcome questions to go to gerry But that is the the Answer I was given by the board. Could you explain what what a drop is? A drop is going from wherever the last point of fiber connection is to the actual residence or building if it's a business Okay, so I had seen through this townsperson just He was expecting much higher costs than than that. So am I hearing from you that The charge for everyone will be $99 or will that be for a certain distance? The basic charge is $99 and everyone Would be looking at that If it's more than 400 feet from that nearest internet Connection point we're at this point saying the nearest utility service point So it would probably be a utility pull out of the road for most people If it's more than 400 feet from there to the house Then there is a additional cost of a dollar per foot beyond that 400 feet So a 600 foot away would pay $200 in addition to the $99 Underground Is it's the same for distance, but if you need to buy We will not be paying for the the conduit or the digging But we do have preparing for you know, where supply chains are at right now and thinking about the world We've prepared by getting a bunch of conduit ready to be sold if people need it And we've got a bunch of contractors lined up people can Talk to about what it's going to cost to put in conduit if they need to Okay, well that that sounds like it's consistent with the discussion that we had at the time We allocated the ARPA money To subsidize it but not wanting to subsidize you know my long runs So basically the homeowner does pay for the conduit and the digging if it's underground. Yes There is one carve-out that was in the mo u for I think a few specific buildings in town municipal buildings And it's like the school of town offices That those would be covered I think in full by the the ARPA money municipal buildings And we did not specify what those buildings are Do we need to specify those at this point? Uh, not probably not until you're ready to get internet service brought to one of those locations But it might be good to I can go through the mo u and look at if there's any particular ones But um, we're probably good to have that list ready so that no one drops the ball on it We've been thinking of what the school the um senior center this building. Was there any place else? We weren't thinking town garage for that worry We've And then how about the fire station? Probably the fire station. Yeah That's it. I think so Not not a long list, right Any other questions? No, thanks. Yeah, thank you. Welcome and we'll get those signs up And don't hold your breath about that being fixed because I don't think it's going to happen. This is They haven't even done the engineering thing so That's red tape They take that isn't like again To figure out how big to make the cover. Yeah, that takes you gotta have the study the hydraulic study and blah blah blah You gotta get a crane in there and Yeah, big trucks. Yeah Yeah, okay Thank you Thank you. Oh, uh before you go. You still there. Yeah, um The audit was uh the nominal Thing on the agenda. Do you have any comments on the financial state of cv fiber at this point? I think we're in a pretty good state. Um, I think our main takeaway Um was needing to do a little bit more getting our our book order in The right state where we're using the right, um Government standards by how we do our budgeting and and all of that. It's not that we our budgeting was wrong But just needing to call out line items by the right codes and so forth. So they all line up at the end But um, yeah, I didn't see anything that was at all Concern considering we're in our first year don't have our first customer yet. So Right, right. Just need to get a good account on the board Okay, thanks Tom Okay, uh, so the next item is consideration of quotes to replace town office oil pink We have one from Gillespie and one from Packard's Gillespie's is less money And that and that's the one it has As what it has new legs Packard didn't say they have new legs. You're gonna use the old legs. I don't know. They might I doubt it. Well, we're on there. She don't they still is cool. I mean Super and new legs is what I observe. Yeah, no, hey Nothing might go to this is the new legs 15 rounds Somebody might get the cost down I have a I have a few questions about this. Okay, good. Hey, um They didn't mention any more anything about warranty for the tank how long are the life expectancy of the tank A tank a single wall tank usually goes 10 to 15 years It might go 20 years if you have a really good basement and you and you treat Every year when they come in they treat the what's the oil that's remaining in the tank to Absorb the waters because the water will cause it rests from the inside and the oil falls on top It might be inside too Just so what happens is the oil sits on top of the water and the water Works on the tank at the bottom. So that's why they tend to start leaking at the bottom like that Yeah, because the water is heavy Right We could paint water out They they they just they just treat it generally They just treat it they have a treatment in there probably absorbs the water. Oh, yeah. Oh, that's what we do with diesel fuel Yeah, same thing. We treat it. Yeah, right. Yeah treat it. Okay Um, all right, and they didn't mention single wall or double wall So I'd assume they're going to go with a single wall and single wall has the has it has the Uh 10 15 year life expectancy, maybe 20 the most the Double wall tank if you get one with a pvc outside can last for 50 years How long you plan on having heat in the building? Or what? Because essentially the difference in price might not be that much I I looked at the price for a single wall tank like from Home Depot and it was it was around 900 or all $900 and then I looked at the price for a double wall tank and the double wall tank Was anywhere from 1200 to 1600 Dollars for the for this size Yes, 275 gallons and the thing about it is a double wall tank If you have an overflow in the tank for some one reason or another It captures it because it's an interstitial space in between the two walls And and and there's a little reservoir there and theoretically what they're supposed to do is when they come in And they fill the tank at least periodically they stick they dip the tank to see if there's anything in the interstitial space So if you have a leak it occurs in that inner part of the tank first because they rush from the inside most of the time And this will contain that oil so you don't have to spill because it spills going to cost you more than I would to ever put a new tank in So what's the idea with a double wall tank? Is it that the inner wall will rust out and then you'll still have one more wall? No, no, no, no that's that the minute that occurs and they dip the tank and they find Product in that interstitial space between the two walls that tanks got to go You can let it go until it rusts it's a containment tank and it just contains it the double wall and the tanks and the tanks actually there's all different designs, but In hybrid we installed a bunch of new tanks in the last few years I was there and we got the rectangular tanks and they drew out from the top and everything And it's just a lot more efficient than they Wasn't the oval tank of the legs? We took them all out. We didn't take them all out, but we took out the ones that rolled it We had actually I wanted to start a leak So we went in and checked out a bunch of them put the new furnaces in a bunch of places and put all the tanks in Is this seemingly a fair quote? Yeah, but he's telling me it's a single wall tank. You don't know if the double wall is single walls. You don't know That's what I'm saying. So because it's a cheaper one So if they're in it so they're essentially charging like 1600 bucks to do the work Why did they make them on a steel which rusts rather than I don't know polyethylene? Like that's like well, I think the polyethylene probably won't hold up over time though I know that the fuel tank on my on my John Deere tractor is Is a pvc But the thing is um I think the outside on some of those tanks Are made out of the pvc, but the inside is usually always metal Probably less reactions with the metal and it'll last longer, but I don't know So you're saying we're going to look into whether what this well, do you want to do you want a double wall? Do you care if you don't care if you only don't let this place is only going to be Heated with the wealth for the next 15 years. Great. Just go with that tank So last year the tank needed to be replaced when Packard came to do the annual service They could not because they told me the tank was pitted. I brought a quote at the time The request was to get two more quotes Frankly fell off my list a year later. Here we are. So Is this in realistic or are we gonna lose? No, well, I checked online and the credit union state credit unit of Vermont State Police Credit Union said the average cost for changing on a tank was between um 12 and 1600 dollars to change out the tank so I kind of You know looking at the numbers out there. I would I would say this is a little pricey They're a little pricey. I think the last few's got the better price But they're not local and and the other person that that bid is a local Conti oil did not return a phone call which is what happened last year I reached out to them at the board's request to get a quote. They never called me back Which is why it fell off my radar. We could go with Packard I mean, it's up to you guys what we do where we get into another year We don't really use the oil, but I think doesn't look good. No It's not it's it's just on the outside It's not just on the outside the rest of the inside And there's been moisture on the outside of the tank because the basement's been repeatedly so you got worse situation there than most people so, you know I would say that if you were going to keep that you should put at least put a Another tank underneath it. Have you got a tray underneath it? Yeah, if you had to yeah, and it should theoretically At least a third of the tank, but we can replace the tank. Yes, right. No. Yeah, so how hard it would be to get quotes on Double wall tanks and also information about warranties with them honestly If someone would like to help volunteer that'd be great My question is my question is do you really care? That's my yeah, I mean it's you know Like I said, I when I attempt the last year didn't get return calls. So it's just it's This building may not be here I say this building is Glespie do it. Go with Glespie. I like Glespie personally not Packard never returns my phone calls I'm annoyed at them, but any people use them. So I should not let my personal preference do it So Glespie, I think we'll do a good job and it's less money We're saving four hundred dollars. Hey, I was just going to suggest too If you somebody was really monopted to hire Packard just say look Packard you match their price But I bet he would do it Yeah Okay, I don't have a problem with that. I mean, I just brought this up Yeah, no, I like the information that you presented Education it's education. I like that. So thank you. No, I do I happen to call them and see if it's double or not, but Oh, you could if you want to but if they say no, what's the difference? But the thing is We're looking at short lifespan. We're not going to be this building may not be here in 15 years Oh, they won't get rid of this building. It's going to still exist. You're not going to tear it out Yes, right. No, it's going to be the terrible society or something like that or it might be a private residence We don't know. Yeah, so but then you might not be heating with oil though. Like I switched heating with gas Yeah, the tank is full. It's been full For the last year. Yeah, that's a pump it out. Oil is not what we use. It's an emergency though I mean because as we all know that doesn't work when we get below 15 Yeah, yeah, it gets too full. It kicks on when we get below 15 So to me it's really important that we change the tank. I don't care if it's single or no I think we just called the last thing happened That's my opinion. Okay. Do you want to make a motion or? I make a motion to go with the Gillespie To accept the bin from Gillespie Accept the for the oil in the municipal building Are they putting on new legs? We need a second for that motion And we have a second. Very good. Now we need to have discussion. Yeah, how many legs do we need? It's usually four Do you um, okay further discussion about the oil tank? No Oh, okay. All those in favor, please say hi Oh my god Thank you. Let's get past my bedtime too. Well, you're the one that made it. Um, but I appreciate that information Um, curb cut application What do we have? Curb cut Oh This picture it looks like Um, when they do like bombings in iraq and alkanis The original looks better just like the sample Yeah, it looks like a uh Okay, got you looked at it. I'm sure I moved to approve permit curb cut Permit number 23 or access permit number 23-031 A second Is there any discussion about the curb cut? Nope. All those in favor, please say hi. Hi The eyes appear to have it. They do have it Once once all the right here This is airs and emissions Curb cut. Oh, I guess I better pass this one out. There's a curb cut. We're supposed to sign airs and emissions, right? You know, we haven't gotten to the addition yet. Where is it? It's an addition to the agenda. I'll just leave that to them The warrants are right here Okay, town administrative report before we go to other business Yeah, uh state debris removal contractors We're going to be collecting debris today from eight addresses in town, but uh, they um But they uh Had an issue with the truck and call me this morning that they were going to push about a day Uh solid and powers Completed their own site review. There are some outstanding items that I'm trying to get resolved as quickly as possible with them Two zoning permits applications were received since the last meeting I will be on vacation next week. Good for you. Enjoy And we'll not be checking emails. Good for you. So The office will be closed on thursday from two to three primarily for me to prep the staff for Gina to attempt to not be available Um, and then I have the remaining schedule. So I just wanted to point out November 20th that meeting Thanksgiving is that week the 23rd. I don't know I just wanted to mention if anyone had any travel schedules that that date would be an issue We don't have to solve it tonight But just to point out that that is the regular date If you want to move that we can certainly do that Okay, maybe the friday that week It's a great idea. I'll be a bit of some All right, so But you're still you're still connected And I'll need a break. Yeah I'm uh, we sit there with beer again The other meeting last thursday But we have a few things to do under other business So we want to Review of errors and missions Get that out of the way. So there's a parcel. We got more land in town Increasing acres by six and six point four six acres Would it get surveyed? Do we have to sign that? Is it by The other pages We can take it over somebody else's town Is this a military operating? Oh, it's bloodless Is the morse playing what happened? Morse's field, it must be I don't think they're coming through This is all they can and may late Thursday Yeah, okay But that's where they own land There's a rush to the mall, do they take our bus? Yeah, I it's probably that big field I really don't like to sign something without any explanation of why I'm signing it Is there a big reason to do it today? I don't know Okay, well, how would we ask him to explain? Look at it next meeting Oh, me Oh, we signed in the back You signed in the wrong place? I didn't sign anything I didn't sign anything Hold your jersey on me, buddy You're always speaking cow talk, aren't you? I deal with cows all day, so it's no different here You hold your whole seat Right here is where you're supposed to sign I don't know I'm not signing it Second error in total acreage At 6.46 acres I know the land I want to hear what we're doing What I'm signing off on getting more acreage I was in the midst of dealing with the external audit Okay, well, we don't have to sign anything Absolutely Is that the only errors in emissions? That's quite interesting Have you guys ever done this before? Errors in emissions, yeah I've been getting extra land in town If it's a plus or minus then sometimes it changes because it's okay It's a loss in 6.8 acres Good for them Maybe we're serving in 1700s Have I ever heard of that? Yeah, I probably have There's definitely some wild scramming to use on our property Really? Yeah Okay, so that's just that one parcel That's the only Okay Do you want to skip the personnel matter and go into the ash tree? Sure The ash tree management project I had mentioned this to you all previously about potentially using ARPA funds to fund that project for fiscal year 23 I discussed it with the external auditor when he was here and he agreed with my line of thinking in that especially now that we have had an event where we have FEMA funds It's something we just need to keep our eye on There are additional audit implications depending on how much federal funds you use in any given year for the combination of ARPA and whatever FEMA funds or costs that we incur that our FEMA eligible could trip us into a single audit situation I don't know how much federal fair or farm blah blah blah are going to cost We all know we are also sitting on ARPA funds that need to be expended over the next few years So it would be great if we could go back into fiscal 23 Number one, ash tree projects are absolutely ARPA eligible Probably something we should look at especially as the board looks at projects as you know the last two years we nearly doubled the budget for these projects So it would be a good use of funds to consider the $31,934 that were paid to Matt Foster for that work in fiscal 23 could be considered ARPA funds and if we would like to do that then I need to work with the external auditors will post a journal entry to reallocate those costs to 23 be essentially a credit back into the general fund and move those costs into the ARPA buckets It would help us as well The trigger for a single audit is based on your fiscal year spending So if we spent it's really more than a million but I don't know what some of these repair costs are going to be we don't yet have there's no way for us to even we all know what county road call works costs but it's just something to be mindful of then if we spend over a certain amount of money with a FEMA that with federal funds federal funds but it's a single program audit yeah so it would audit like highlights whoever spent the most money whatever department spent the most money it's pretty simple to compare it to the comprehensive audit but it's like 12 grand maybe up to as high as 15 yeah it's cost and it's time and it's well in charge went over 20 now for the regular audit so I would say it'd be around between 12 and 15 thousand this is something everyone tries to avoid as much as they possibly could because the waste is kind of a waste of your money just blowing that money away because your books are fine you know that and it's only one department but the thing is they have to do it they have to just justify it but it doesn't, whoever changes your procurement requirements are they doing anything more in that audit than we do in our annual audit no less less you do less and there are additional implications you have to adjust your procurement protocols it greatly complicates what you're doing when I attended the applicant briefing at the state the question was does anyone here have more than a million that they're going to be spending no one raised their hands the response was good it's not a big deal it's not a big deal we probably won't but once you add ARPA into the mix it's totally better so we can do that plus it's to our benefit to go ahead and get as much of this ARPA funds used as possible we don't have a clear path forward and again December 31st, 2024 is not as far away as everyone thinks so you made a really good motion there but it was a long time ago in your time I can't make that no I know I'm just kidding but you explained it very well so the idea is we have a pot of money an account with ARPA that would be drawn down by this amount the 16, 934 I would propose the 31,000 I would do all of it which is okay because that shifts that now we have more money left in the general fund it also helps with the general fund because we obviously have some areas of the general fund that were over for fiscal 24 right I think we agree with you that's a good assessment so John moves to John doesn't have a problem with it but you know what I have to read it wherever it is I'm in here isn't it I'll move to allocate the 31,934 dollars from the ARPA funds to the FY2023 Ashtree management project I'll second I think John went to second I'll go right with it so Zoe seconded yeah okay there's a further discussion so this money would be retroactively we already spent it refunding the general fund for that amount for last fiscal year was that clear for the motion I think you're good I wasn't sure we can adjust the motion a little bit to make that clear but do we need to ask Steve to adjust the motion would you like me to read it back please motion to allocate the 31,000 amount from the ARPA fund to the FY2023 Ashtree management I think that's perfect okay there's a further discussion all is in favor please say it and you're going to work with the auditors to make sure that it's all done yeah this is something I told him I was going to bring to you tonight and then I would circle back with him awesome okay so that took care of those two additions we have a county road did you say something about county road I was curious what I could or could not do about the speeding problems that continue to be reported by residents, people like to do in person, people that are posting it's definitely something can I ask the sheriff to spend some time up there that's the best way to do it I already asked about center road I think the hard reality is I'm not going to say who but a rather prominent person involved in municipal stuff commented me that that road should be 50 that's part of the reason it's a problem so I mean while they can spend time on the road it's a problem should we lower the speed limit lowering only works if you can enforce it right and you can't arbitrarily lower it without doing a highway study you can do it and if it stands without a court challenge for three years then it becomes a law of the road but if you do it without a traffic study a speed assessment then you might be creating a traffic trap for people is it expensive to do a traffic study? well I don't know, Doug Newton did the last one for us it was like 1500 bucks but it's probably different now and probably Chase and Chase can do that because now they have their engineer but the point is I'm thinking that that I don't think it makes real sense to lower the speed limit if you're driving is it 50 there? it's 40 so they're already speeding if they're going 55 or 60 people are reporting 70 miles an hour the man I spoke to at the county was in celebrations with him said that he listed like five times that he's either seeing people run off the road or he and his wife have been run off the road he's replaced his mailbox about ten times when he was driving like a lot of people are speeding so badly that they're ignoring signals so if someone is turning left into their driveway people have tried to pass around them and nearly missed fatal collisions he's seen people drive off the turn to Templeton road if they're going towards Calis missed the turn to Templeton speeding and drive into the marsh he told me there's so many accidents and then just last week someone else posted for a porch form and it seems pretty dangerous it was a problem prior to the construction it was a complaint about the construction would stop and next this summer it was all going to be complaints about speeding on the nice smooth road so it's unfortunately not surprising and I have been passed on that grade a number of times because I'm going forward the sheriffs allow usually police officers up to ten miles an hour let's just say police officers allow so I'm sure the sheriffs do the same thing well not necessarily I had I know what they allowed ten miles an hour like everybody else that's kind of standard people anywhere my eyes were opened to this dance between what people want to drive given the road conditions and the speed limit when we had the conversation on the state road down here at the bottom Town Hill Road about reducing the speed limit to afford it which we got them to do their traffic study a few years ago and I mean it was this almost surreal thing where they would only reduce the speed if people were already driving the lower speed do you understand why they do that because every road condition when people are driving on that road that you have for most people you have this innate ability to reduce the danger of the road and you drive at a particular speed like I know if I drive through in various cities on one of their side roads I drive probably like 15 or 20 miles an hour so they track that and they want to see how many people are actually driving at that speed and if most people are driving at that speed and there's some anomalies below and some anomalies above then they'll pick that speed because then they're not creating a traffic trap you're creating a speed limit now if everybody's driving 50 on the road then they're going to say well why not leave it at 50 if everybody's driving on an interstate 75 miles an hour why not leave it at 75 I mean that could theoretically happen so that's the way they design that that's why where they go 25 miles an hour into going into Barry on three different places and one's on the Barry Montpelier Road so it's 25 miles an hour this is a blankly blank speed trap because everybody wants to drive 40 everybody wants to drive 40 but it says 25 there are a lot of areas of like 14, for example, it's 50 and then there are certain areas where you have to slow to 35 good populated areas and you slow down anyway it seems like it would make sense for at least a certain area of County Road where people are complaining the most and it seems the most dangerous but is it 40 now? if they're driving at 50 they do a traffic study they could actually work against us yes, they could work against us they could make the speed up higher because everyone's comfortable with 50 it is interesting when you talk about road conditions Disney way back when on one of their property well it was a widely traveled road but it dead ended into a pond there was a stop sign there were lots of barricade things to warn you but because of the number of people that kept driving into the pond because you were on a nice wide beautiful road so you weren't going to go the 40 mile road and that they they full on had to redo the road because of course they were sued but I forget how many people drove into the lake it was rather large but that drove into that body of water because it dead ended and you had to go right well primarily left because nothing was built yet to the right then but because the road condition you were on what almost felt like an interstate you came off of an interstate it was really said it was understandable that everybody was driving 55-60 miles per hour through there and barreled into a body of water looking at speed bumps or narrowing the road or something else to slow the cars down you already took them all out great idea you paved it, took out the speed bumps I support a rough road policy which I said 10 years ago and I was shot down for that I think I'm in this sheriff's of terror regularly if there's somebody driving a lot of people driving 50 or 49 but you know what they're going to do is a lot of other people still drive that group is going to be driving faster they just need to be there and we should find out when this speeding is occurring that was actually one question Washington County had my guess is on County Road it's all the time I know on Center Road that question was already asked again I directed them to Center and County Center Road that question already came up and it was like it's all the time when it happened so I think that's probably going to be the answer on County Road as well when they came in they talked about their evidence-based policing and wanting to put a hose across the road to get measurements could we encourage them to do that but they do that the sheriff's department I think that's a good idea they did their traffic study there's a road called Vermont Avenue people always complain about speeding there's a lot of retired people there too so they hung around and looked out the windows like I do to see if people are speeding or not and the thing was you don't know when it was occurring around 8 o'clock in the morning and around quarter or three in the afternoon you know why? the Hazen Union is right there it's a shortcut and they go like how? so that's when the cops would sit up there that's when the parents would call and say we're trapping your kids if you put that thing across the road does that tell you the time or the speed? it tells you the speed and the time and the day that's the way to do it at least that's what Doug Newton's rigged us so we've done all the other business except for the personnel matter and I had that oh yeah you wanted to talk Scott were you in that meeting as well? yes so last Thursday as we talked about our previous meeting Scott and I went out to the Montpelier meeting and there's been a lot in the paper about it so we don't need to go through all the details but basically a lot of people were there 550 people were there 300 in person 250 online and a lot of people talked about moving the high school up to VCFA or moving the downtown up to VCFA or jacking up everything downtown by 15 feet and so on and so forth but there was also some consideration of thinking about solutions more regionally and working with other towns in the area and I just wanted to throw that out there just so we're aware that some people may be coming to us and saying you know there's a lot of stuff that's been in Montpelier before I have no idea what that is well East Montpelier since 1848 has been divorced from Montpelier now they want to re-wed you have some really property up to the Elstgård West they have like 23 acres up here and they can put all kinds of stuff they could in the next meeting in the series it's a series of three meetings initially the next one is tomorrow night what they're going to do is they have around a dozen or so topics that they've identified from the first meeting and online conversation on something called Padlet and they're going to have breakout meetings for each of these ideas and talk about how to move forward okay perfect perfect so the only other thing left is the personnel matter I believe am I staying corrected if there's something I missed okay so I make the usual motion to go into an executive session for the statutory, the usual statutory reasons to discuss a personnel matter okay so we can tell Diidra what we do we can vote all in favor go ahead all in favor please say hi hi I didn't hear you yet yeah okay we are out of executive session 821 821 no action taken we're going to discuss the next step no action ever taken in the executive session no we're muted no we're muted I'm always muted because if I am muted you are muted oh you know so we're out of executive session we're out of executive session we are out yes and we are authorizing the town administrator to advertise the minute taker position for the select board, the DRB and the planning commission for my consensus and she will advertise in Bumper's morning or wherever she feels appropriate appropriate okay I say fit he says well my language is not generally mediocre I try to elevate it a little bit that is up for debate but I don't think we want to debate you can hear him saying so okay motion you've been talking a lot that's not debatable you're making a motion all those in favor please say aye there's any more discussion oh you can't there's no debate no discussion about adjourning all those in favor please say aye