 Welcome everybody. At this webinar organized by the Green European Foundation, together with Oikos, the Flemish Screening Tank. I'm Dirk Holomans, Co-President of the Green European Foundation and your host today. And we are very happy that we have as speaker today, Sana Fezakans. She's the Green Deputy Mayor of Helsinki and she's responsible for social affairs and public health. First I want to also emphasize that this webinar is part of a series. It's part of a transnational jet project called Cities as Places of Hope in Europe. And the reason why we are doing this project is that we want to develop a more hopeful, positive perspective on Europe. Because sometimes if you look how the member states are fighting in Brussels, and I don't even want to mention the Brexit. You can get the impression that, yeah, things are not going so great in Europe. But at the same time, if you look at what frontrunner cities are doing, then you really get a view of very progressive, ambitious policies which are not only written down in paper, but are also implemented. For instance, last week we had a webinar with people from Amsterdam and Brussels that are implementing the donut model of Kate Howard. That's also showing that really things are changing. And because we find it very relevant to have frontrunner cities from all corners from Europe, so to say, I think Helsinki is an obvious choice. I had a pleasure some years ago to visit the city to talk with Santa and I was really impressed by the progressive policies being implemented in very different fields, climate policy, education, public health, food and so on. And therefore, I will not speak myself much longer. And I'm very happy, Sana, to give you the floor to explain us about the policies being developed and implemented in Helsinki. Thank you, Dirk, and hello everyone and thank you for inviting us. We are of course very happy to tell about Helsinki and what we Greens have accomplished and also what we aim in the future. It's actually a quite interesting time also in Helsinki because we will have elections, the local elections, municipal elections in April. If, of course, nothing with the COVID situation will go very terrible wrong, but we really hope and are going to organize. All our actions are geared to organize elections in some weeks already. And of course, it's very interesting time for us, as you all know, with democracy being very concrete when the elections are coming up. Maybe something about myself first, just to introduce myself. And then I have a presentation as well. Hopefully we will get to see that as well and you will all see it. I'm a city councillor in Helsinki since 2009, so more than 10 years. I have been in my political actions very focused on education, health and social policies. Maybe because of my background, I have been working in different public and non-governmental organizations in the field of health and social services. Most recently before this position, now I have served as a deputy mayor for almost four years and this is a full-time position in Helsinki. But before this, I was working for Save the Children Finland before that in some governmental organizations and also in the UN, UNFPA in Ethiopia. So both international and local actions combined. And very happy of course, now being able to put this, my personal interest and I think also a very important part of local democracy. Having the good social services and taking progressive social action also in the cities, being able to guide this as a deputy mayor. But maybe I will tell more and go now probably hopefully you can see my presentation. Yes, I will go more into detail what Helsinki has, what we have done as a place of hope. I think it was a very good title for this event and some concrete actions and examples of our climate targets. Also what we have done in mental health and also thinking of healthy food and public health in general. Let's go to the next. Yes, here is just one picture of one of our health stations in the eastern Helsinki. And I already gave some introductions of my background. So not going to more details on that now, but maybe some details about Helsinki. Not all of you have maybe visited us, I hope after COVID you will have a chance to visit here in the northern corner of the European Union. We are a city of 650,000 inhabitants and we are growing quite fast. We are a growing city, I think this is very similar to all capitals in the European Union, many other cities as well. That the growth is very fast, both coming from other parts of Finland, people to come to Helsinki to study, to work. And of course also from outside the borders to come to study, to work, to seek asylum, many other reasons too. And also in Helsinki we have seen a big change. We, compared to many other European cities, we are not so international when you look at the population, but around 50-15% of our population don't speak other language than Finnish or Swedish, which are the official languages. And of course that growth is also taking place and we are very happy also that Helsinki is in many ways getting more international, very connected to other parts of the world globally. Here are all the pictures of green city councillors. We are 21 city councillors from the altogether 85 and we are now the second biggest party in the city council. And therefore we have two deputy mayors, myself and Anni Sinnemäki, who is also our representative now for the position of being also the mayor for the next term. We have a very good possibilities because in the other elections last year and year before when we had the parliamentary elections, greens were the biggest party in Helsinki. So of course we are trying to be the biggest and that would mean that we will get the mayors position. But if you can see from the pictures we represent Helsinki different ages, different genders, different backgrounds, but very progressive and very group with a lot of aims and also a lot of energy to try to focus on the important things in the green policies. Maybe some words also about the COVID since it is a crisis that has hit us so hard, not only in Europe but also globally and we know that it is also something that we need to focus very much in the coming years. At the same time as we are trying to create the hope for the citizens. Here are the infections rate with the orange colour and dolgo means starting from March 2020. So first in the left hand side you will see the springtime and now the autumn ending in this January. Of course as you know there is no point of really comparing what happened in the springtime and in the autumn we didn't test as much as then as we do now. We probably have much better picture of the whole pandemic but in any case Helsinki has been hit very hard. We represent 10% of the whole country's population but we represent almost 30% of the all infections. So it has concentrated in this capital area, it has concentrated of course because we are the most densely populated and many other reasons people also travel a lot and all that. We have also the border to the south to Estonia where a lot of traffic and people are also coming here to work and vice versa. But at the same time when you compare this to the European map we know that we have not been hit so hard as many other European countries. We also feel there are certain reasons for it. We know at least some part of it is that we were a bit lucky. For instance in the springtime our winter vacation wasn't on the same weeks as our neighbours so the Finns didn't travel to the countries. For instance Italy and Austria where there was a lot of more infections at that time since we didn't have it and they didn't bring it to Finland that much. But of course I think it is also due to a very well working public sector and also that we were able to do certain actions ahead that it was not too late. We were a bit also ahead and could use that time wisely. But of course at the same time now we know that the levels have been quite high. Most children are still in the school until they are 15 year old. After that they have been now for the last two months they have been studying from home. We are also very digital country so it works also from home but of course we also see that it has created a lot of loneliness. A lot of for instance hobbies for children, sports etc. We haven't been, that has been also only organised outside in the wintertime a very difficult time. So we are challenging, we are challenged at the same time trying to do the right actions thinking of the epidemic. And then also the social consequences and what we also see that is happening for especially for mental health. And then knowing also that we are not, luckily we are not still in the very difficult situation. The infections when you look at it in the last 14 days they have been around 150 which I'm sure many colleagues you from other European countries seems that it is actually quite low. But still of course very difficult one in many cases. But what is not, yeah let's go to the next. I think this is something that although the COVID has hit us hard the whole Europe this is something that we need to work on in any case the climate action. And Helsinki has set a lot of aims that we will be carbon neutral city by 2035. And with the green line you can see the total emissions starting from 1990 and with the orange emissions per residence and we are actually going to very good directions. This now ends 2018 but it has actually we have followed the path like that but we know that of course the last reductions are probably the most difficult ones. Especially they are difficult for Helsinki thinking of the warming, how to produce both electricity and how to warm up the houses because we have the very cold winter period here in the north. In the background you see one of our energy sources which still uses coal but with the decision making that was initiated by the cream party already some years ago we will close this one plant in 2024. So already in three years we will need to find different sources and of course we have done that already for four years how to not to use coal but to use other sources that are carbon neutral. So we are working very hard on this and I think with the climate action we are actually going in very good direction and we also have been able to get also the other parties since we don't have the majority still yet as a green party in Helsinki also the other parties have been able to agree on this plan. But there are of course some issues where we still need to fight a lot. Let's go to the next. For instance the modes of transport it's something that of course we as the Greens would like to focus more on the sustainable ways of transport, public transport, bicycle walking, which is also more healthy. We know that it's also important from that perspective but of course we still have those lobbies especially for the cars from the other parties but in any case we have been very much able to change these modes of transport. If you can see from 2010 to 2018 especially the share of walking and bicycling it has gone up both steadily and we have done a lot of infrastructure development and many other things to steer this development. But the public transportation of course very important also to take care that it will be something that people find attractive and usable. So let's go to the next. Here is a picture of Helsinki city bike system that has been working already some years and what we are very especially proud of that it's among the most popular city bike systems in the world. So we have invested money on it but also people love to use it. They use it a lot as a way to transport either first one section to go by bike to the metro and then maybe change to the tram or the whole way with the city bikes. And I think very important part of this is also to get the users to make the system working in the way that it's also working for them that they are the ones getting a lot of feedback trying to find the right places where to put the bikes etc. And really to make it usable. Some examples that I think it's are very important parts of creating that hope also creating the trust between citizens and here is a picture of one Helsinki city park where where every summer we have free lunch for all under 16 year old so all children can come to the to the playgrounds we have 70 70 different parks with a playground where we have also stopped working in there and the city provides warm lunch every every day from Monday to Friday. And it started as you can see already more than 90 years ago actually ago but I think it's some some elements of of really getting important important social trust that and also that for instance small children who who are enjoying their summer holidays from the school and and their parents are still working they can find the lunch they can come there alone with their friends and of course also for for other families with the smaller children they can enjoy the the parks for longer hours. This is something we are very proud of, but we love the other food as well. Here is example from our school lunches. This is something also that we have had forever. More than more than more than decades. This came actually in legislation after the second world war that all the schools have to serve lunch for for all school children and we find that it's it is very important it's part of our our social and social services and and the interesting is that when we see it as a universal right, then it also means that that everybody is is entitled you don't have to apply you people children are all equal. But we also know that in some schools for instance on Mondays children eat a lot more so they haven't had done they haven't received as much food as as others maybe on the weekend so so it is also important from that aspect. But what is important and interesting from the green point of view. Let's go to the next is that since we have this mass food production from the city, both in schools they take care and and also in the summertime in the parks. We made a decision already 2011 that schools in Helsinki will have a vegetarian day once a week. And then two years ago we made a decision that we voted and that was a very very fierce discussion in the beginning in then 10 years ago but now it actually wasn't we voted to cut the use of meat and dairy products by half by 2025. And both of these initiatives were done by a Green City Councilor. I think this also the discussion that it was very, very heavily debated then, then nine years ago and now it was more, more easily adjusted means also that this is something that we can, we can make these very big structural decisions and but we have to start from from somewhere and we have to be also courageous enough to to make those goals and and then then very very that it seems to be something that everybody can can can share. Okay, then the food of course is is important from other perspective as well. Although, since in general, we are quite proud of our social security system and the universal services. We know that we have poverty in Helsinki. We also know that we have unequal situations when when people also lack even food. And this is a picture from our one of our food aid centers. And this is the center actually run by the city invested by the city, where all the this post food or the food that the that either the supermarkets or or even the bigger food chain logistics cannot use. And they they would other elsewhere throw it away. Now it comes to the center. And from there it's then the challenge to different NGOs, different churches, different actors who who will give the food aid for our residents. And and we have done this very efficient way of trying to use this this food, most efficiently also to cut the to the guarantee the cold chain. So so we don't have to throw anything away before the smaller actors when they are each one getting the food from the local supermarket, they also couldn't have that kind of a very efficient chain. And we have developed it together with the with the different NGOs and I think it's very important green initiative as as well here in Helsinki. Then maybe some words still about the mental health because I think it is an important very important has it has been already for some years we know that for instance. It is the most important or the biggest reason why why young adults in Finland receive pensions if they cannot study or work that it's due because of mental health problems. I'm sure many of you also see that different mental health problems have arise, it have people also also demanding different services and the public sector, and we as a city responsible of organizing all health services for our citizens. We also haven't been able to to fully have all those services that people need and we have realized that especially in the low threshold mental health services where you can come for discussion support also receive guidance and counseling from psychologists and other professionals also to get some therapy in case you need more, but what is most important is that people can seek their services and receive the first meeting by themselves they can if they need the time they can book the time and and there is no doctor saying that you are not you are not sick enough we won't take you here. And this kind of a low threshold mental services that we have now to in Helsinki, we are going to have them in each part of Helsinki to build more of them and we, we as the Greens we have been very much fighting for the resources of this. And also that they will be they started from the, not the better of areas, but the less better of areas in Helsinki that they are important kind of services also in the post corona times as we know that people are very, very stressed and of course the economic situations also bring a lot of a lot of problems for the mind. Yes. Then. Here's a picture from the from the future. Like I mentioned, we will have the elections coming in in April. We will look very optimistic to the to the future we want to be the, the most human city guiding people through and out of this COVID situation. We know that we both need actions and and real real actions for the climate change. We know that it was the most worrying thing for our Helsinki city residents before the COVID crisis when we have done some surveys. What do people fear the most people feared for the climate change. So in Finland, of course, we won't have the winters every year because we can see that it is it unfortunately it also affects us. And for us, then the winter means very dark and very, very long time before without snow. So, so it's something very concrete for the for for our residents. So we need the real action. We need also political decisions that that are really concrete and and also that take people themselves seriously. And I think, for instance, these examples that I brought from mental health, I think that's something that people really feel that they, they would need the cities to be to be very active. I think other other aspects like how to find sustainable economies for young people who now when when when many of them have lost jobs in the cities are of course very important parts and and Helsinki has a as a program how to come out from the from the from the COVID crisis and we, of course, greens try to try in the elections to be the biggest party and and then lead this this program also in the coming four years. So, I will probably end here. Here is one picture from Helsinki. I hope we could have organized this here for instance in the new central city library Audi, which is one of the beautiful examples of Helsinki's architecture, but hopefully maybe next year or in the coming years we will also meet in in these wonderful public spaces that are open to everyone. That's that create hope and and also that are sustainable like this already built a lot of with wood in a structure so hopefully you one day you will have a chance to visit Helsinki as well, but very happy to to also answer questions and and and also discuss on these topics or others that this presentation may be erased. Thank you. Okay, thank you very much for this very splendid to talk about some elements of policies of the city of Helsinki. And indeed, there are a few questions already in the chat. One is Linda from UK says I love Helsinki. She has a question on energy policy. You said you will close the coal plants. And so the question is, are tidal wave or geothermal or heat pumps viable options for females. If you close the coal plant, how will you produce renewable energy and heat. Yes. Tide doesn't help us very much. We have a Baltic sea that doesn't have a tide. That's why I had that difficulty of understanding it since we don't have it. It's more like like a lake, although it is a sea with semi salty water. We will use, we will have numerous different sources. We will also use wind, wind power to some extent. Also the heat coming from the from the earth. I'm sorry. As a sociologist, I'm not sure about all the terms. Maybe you did know. That's what's called geothermal heat. Geothermal heat. Yes. Then a lot of, we have a, we have a carbon neutral Helsinki plan that's also available in the internet. I'm sure also in English, you will find it. It has more than 140 actions. How we are going to make that energy change. So, so there is also a lot of actions. How to, how to make the, the houses more, how does that concern better energy? Insulated. Insulated and a lot of many actions, but from the, from the, how we're going to not to use the coal. There are many different. So how to use the geothermal energy, how to use also, what is it? Unfortunately, I don't know this in English. A lot of different power networks, how to make them to work better, not to consume. And different pumps, pump systems and, and, and a lot of other, other challenges. But yes, look it up also in the, in the internet. If you're more interested how we are going to use it. Hannah already put the link in the chat. So that's perfect. Great. And what we actually did, we did have this Helsinki energy challenge competition where we, we made it also public that anybody who will have a good solution that would work in Helsinki for, for we have a lot of central heating system that uses that we produce both energy. For the heating and, and, and then also electricity. If, if we would have a good solutions, we will also give prices and that also means money prices for those who will, who will find good solutions, because we know that if that solution would be something that is, is working for us, it would probably also be working for many other cities. Not only in Europe, but we know, for instance, that in China, they are also looking for, for better solutions. So if you want to follow Helsinki energy challenge, we don't have the, the middle yet, but we have received the, the competitive, those who want to compete, they have already submitted their, their ideas. So let's see. Okay, thanks. Another question here is about civil participation, how do you combine this policy of sustainable development with really civic participation. Yes, we have focused a lot on the on participation because we know that if people don't feel that they are part of the part of the city part of the city policy is part of the of the place. Then, then probably we lose that trust that is very, very important. This last four years, for instance, we started this participatory approach that we have this participatory budgeting. So all the, all the residents, everybody who's over 12 souls of the kids can initiate things that they think city should do. And then we had a had a voting system for the first term, we put 4.4 million euros for it. And the second one, we made it a bit longer, but we doubled also the money. So it's 8.8 million. I think that is also something a low threshold way of trying to get your idea, trying to, to also get that realized in the city, but, but it's not, of course, not the only one. The important part is in the services, how we are, how we're going to take the people to, to really design the services, for instance, the elderly care, how we are not coming from up from here, but really trying to find solutions and make the service design that people find that it's working for them. So we have put a lot of approach for, for this kind of design designs by the expert and, and, and peer support and things that would also increase people's participation and that, and their feeling of belonging. But of course, it's a very long, long way how to, how to do it because there is also the long, long tradition of bureaucracy doing some things up here. And, and it really means a lot of, a lot of effort, but we have a whole program for the part of participatory approach and I'm very happy of those steps that we have taken now these last years. Okay, thanks. There's one question about how cities are financed. Do you have a lot of local taxes or are you dependent on a federal tax system? It's a very important question and I know that we are very different in, in different parts of Europe in this. In Finland we have a, the cities and the municipalities have a lot of self governance. So we can, we have the city tax that we tax from both from income, so people's income, and also from companies, and then of course also from properties and the land. So we have different sources of taxing and then financing these services. Of course we have also a lot of responsibilities. We need to organize the transportation, everything in the infrastructure, but then also the services, the whole education system, not the universities, but everything under the, so to the secondary school as well, then the whole health services and social services. So also we finance the university hospitals, which we organize with the metropolitan area, not only enhancing ourselves, but we organize a lot of services that in other countries of Europe, you might have a very different social security system or even very different ones financed by insurances or like that. So we have a lot of source of income. We are not that dependent on the, on the, from the national level, but of course we are dependent on the way that people want to live here and that they have salaries and also of course that companies want to stay here. So I think it also guides us to also work better that both people find work and can be in that part of also financing the system. Yeah, okay, thanks. It was great to to read that the city bike system is very successful. And then my question is, how do you do that? How do you convince people to drive their bike in winter because maybe the winters are not so cold anymore as they used to be. But I guess you have cold temperatures, you have snow. And so how do you motivate people to keep on biking? Yes, very good question. I did bicycle still two weeks ago, but then we got so heavy snow, one meter snow here in Helsinki. So now I haven't been using my bike for for a couple of weeks, but it's possible because we have. We have also the most important routes are we know people know and and that's guaranteed that you know that they will have also they will take care of before the work work day begins and you can really also bicycle through the through the winter. That of course create. We need a whole new system for for it. I know it's a bit challenging than in many other parts of the world. That city bike system we don't have a full year. We know that with the snow and with our harsh conditions it wouldn't work, but it's it's from, I think from April till October or so. If I remember right maybe until until November. So, so most of the year we have the city city bike system working. I think what was what has been very important is that people. People know that we we try to have those good conditions for bicycling so they will be safe. They don't need to be afraid of the cars and also of course that also those who are walking don't need to be afraid of the bicyclers. So we have started a very big infrastructure development and taking of course example from Denmark, Netherlands, other parts of of Europe where you have done it much earlier than we have that to have a really good bike lanes and that would be people also would know how to to use it. But it's it is of course a bit challenging with the weather conditions and also the distances since we are not that densely populated so so that there is also some some distances but at the same time beautiful forests and places to go for instance my I live in that in the northern part of Helsinki I have nine kilometers to the city hall so I will have I have almost whole route through the central park which in Finland means forest, not a park and only in the end some one kilometer before the city city hall I will have the first place where I need to stop for the city lights so so I think it is possible and it's it's you have you just have to have a vision and and you have to have a a lot of political will to do it the way that people also feel that it's it is they agree with it and Viking has been very popular this last year with the covid as as I imagine in many other cities as well. Okay, thanks. Of course you made us a bit jealous. Cycling to the park which is actually your first. We have one question here from crystal, I think she lives in Antwerp, and she's wondering how do you encourage people to take public transport so. Yes. Very important question. Well, with them. I think what we have done for a long time is that we have invested a lot in the in new tram lines. Yes. I forgot to mention that in the my presentation very important part of our infrastructure development so not only of course by client lanes but but also new tram lines new. Well, another modes of rain. Railroads so so so we we made a. Our metro line. We invested a lot in in the new lines of metro new tram lines that will not to go to how to say also horizontal lines that has been always the problem in Helsinki because everything has gone to the to the city center where well but not not horizontally and then of course trying to trying to also. Make the change possibilities easy comfortable so and and and try to of course keep also the the tickets not too expensive. Very difficult now with the COVID since also our public transportation is in in very big problems because people have stayed home haven't used the public transportation. Since also many of them have feared that they will get infection from from there. So try how to. Build that that use and trust again how to build that back very very important part but I think when you have modern modern trams and and you know you know that they are working very well and and going on time. Etc people also feel that it's it's much worse than than taking your own own car. Like I said also I think that if we can say to the residents that this is also the climate. Very important for the climate. I think our residents are also quite progressive and they understand it. Okay, thanks. Then now there are a few questions related to what I could call the politics and the political situation. So, Marie is interested in what are the different factors that have led to the rise of the Green Party in Finland because you're actually very strong so we are a bit jealous so tell us your secrets. I think there are many explanations to it. Well of course the party system in Finland is a bit different than in any country for instance we don't have a liberal party like in many many other countries some some political. Political scientists say that that is one part of the explanation that we have the biggest parties have been the moderate conservative social democrats. Then quite big also kind of agricultural party, but there has been that kind of progressive liberal party lacking and Greens have also been from looking at from the values and that we have been very, very well fit into that. I think in many social policies we are considered that we have a lot of also in common to the more to the left thinking of the social action and then of course in many many aspects we ourselves see that we are there in the center because we are not. We don't have also that history of from that left right axis. But I think we have been able to work with with the different parties we in Finland we don't have a dual we have a multi-party governments always at the at the moment we are in the in the national government. The the foreign minister being Peckohavisto. Minister for Inner Interior is Maria Alhissala who's our chairperson in in in Green Party and then we have also the Minister of Environment Krista Mikkonen and now this coalition is is led by the social democrats but we have been also in the governments who are led by the for instance moderate conservatives or the. Central the agricultural party. So I think there are different reasons. Of course we ourselves think that we have been able to have good political political aims and and we have been something that people trust and feel that we we can have good action and and people can trust us. I think as a politician you all of course you want to believe that is very important part of of of our success as well and in Helsinki we try to of course be successful in the in the future as well. Okay, thank you. There's one question related to the political situation. How about populism in Helsinki. We have a populist party in Finland, but in Helsinki they are not actually that big. At least they haven't been so far. They are the maybe fifth six biggest parties so so not not many city councilors in the in the city council, but nationally they have been growing. Rapidly sometimes in the polls they are even the biggest party at the moment. And they have a very worrying very anti immigration front and and and they're very often what they aim or some opposite what we do thinking of for instance with the with the immigration policies or or even with the climate they are very very much against. Progressive climate action. So of course that is worrying us a lot here also in the in the Nordic countries that we we for I think for many years we thought that populism is not something that we will get. But yes, it's it's happening also here very worrying trends coming from from different parts of Europe and definitely we need to. Especially I think we need to fight back with with that kind of a rhetoric that that is also using well not if not rise but at least using semi-lice and very similar rhetoric as we as we saw in the US so it is it is very worrying. And is that also connected to a kind of divide between the cities in the countryside. And not not directly say they also get out a lot of. A lot of voters from from smaller cities also from bigger cities, but I think especially from from men, especially. They they have now gained more of the voters from the kind of far right. They are not a new party they were actually old party and a bit different. They have also gone to the to the right more than they used to used to go so so very worrying development also here in Finland and I know also in other Nordic countries we see this this party is rising. Okay, but of course there are also strong progressive parties like the Greens. Yes. So I want to finish with the last question. Oh, here's someone Linda asking last question in the chat. So interesting question. Is it possible for Finland to be self sufficient in foods. Well, if we would eat like our ancestors ate probably we would be a self sufficient but then we wouldn't have a lot of those fruits and vegetables that we we get so we have. We also in Finland have a lot of agricultural support we of course as a Greens have tried to guide it also to be more sustainable so thinking of the animals conditions and also thinking of. Of pesticides and all that that is used for for the Finnish agriculture but yes we depend of course very much on the on the import as as we are here in the the growth season is very short also in Finland. Okay, thanks for answering for answering this last question. I really want to thank you for being with us and as I said, I hope to come back to Helsinki and I will bring some Belgian chocolates. Great. You're welcome anytime. Yeah, and maybe also something to add is that which I find also very important about connecting in a sustainable way. As you probably know there are really serious talks about reintroducing a night train between Brussels on Malmö. That would already make it a bit more realistic to come to Helsinki so I would say many thanks also for the people joining with us very relevant questions and hopefully we see you in the next live public meeting so thank you very much. Thank you and thank you everyone for wonderful questions. Thank you. My son lives in Helsinki and he is very active in the cultural field. And I think that could be also one of the aspects of the success of the green part because also in this field you are, as I feel it, much more active than than here the politicians in Belgium. My guess. Interesting. Thank you. Yeah, it is part of a green policy also, the cultural aspect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think, well we have found some recipe that we have been able to combine that environmental sustainability and social justice and how to combine that. We have been able to it, but of course all the political systems and scenes are so different so. Yeah, for instance, the library system that you have libraries in every small part of the city. It's a, I think it's very important because also this enables people to get involved in in the cultural fields. Yeah, yes. Thank you. Okay, thanks for this great last. Yeah, we shouldn't forget the importance of culture of course, especially in these difficult times where people are isolated so thank you very much and hopefully see you at the next webinar so keep an eye on our website. Thank you very much.