 All right, welcome back into the original gangsters podcast. I'm your host Scott Bernstein. Today I'm bringing in Off the Bench, another utility man, classic MVP, Jeff Nadu from Barstool Sports and the sit down on Twitter and other socials is gonna come and kind of be my co-pilot, my wingman on this episode. We're gonna go into his neck of the woods out in Philadelphia. So, Jeffrey, thank you for joining me. The problem always good to be with you, Scott. I feel like that one of the great sixth men of all time, whoever that is, whoever you put that as, I'll be it. No problem. Drake said, like Lou Will, right? Yes, I was a big Lou Will fan. He was here in Philadelphia for many years. So, yeah, I'll be Lou Will, no problem. Jimmy, my normal co-host, the doctor, Jimmy Bucciolato, is doing his doctoring affairs. He's a PhD and he teaches a professor at Wayne State University and he's got finals. So, he's in the midst of grading papers and writing final exams for his students on this kind of stuff. So, I'm jealous because- I guess it's becoming that time, right? I mean, school's ending soon for, you know, different universities, stuff like that. What I'm saying I'm jealous about though is if I would have loved to have been a student at a university and being able to take classes on organized content. It's interesting where I went at Indiana. We didn't have those opportunities. When I hear you mention that, I'm interested. Like, that would be great. I'd love to study this kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah. I hear like this- I hear this teacher teaches a class at Rowan. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, it's starting to be something that's, you know, in the curriculum in academia. Well, I heard like Harvard now also has like a course about the wire, like the television show. So, it's like, wow, okay. So, let's dive in. This is going to be an analysis, I guess, a breakdown of a story that I put out in the last week or two that I categorized as a sleeper mob hit in the Philadelphia Mafia's Joy Merlino crew. A group that's been leading, allegedly, has been leading the Bruno Scarfield crime family for the last 30 years. These are guys that took over as kind of a group in their early 30s. They're now getting into their early 60s. So, it's been quite a ride with these guys. And for the most part, we know the gangland hits, starting in 1990, when they started to kind of come on the scene all the way until the most recent recorded one in 2012 with Gino Di Pietro. We know all the major players and all the major hits. Some have been beaten in court. There were a handful that were brought into a racketeering indictment against a skinny Joey Merlino, the boss of this crew and his group of loyalists in 2001. They beat all those murder counts. But there have been other murders that have occurred in the late 90s into the 2000s that investigators have tried to pin on the Merlino crew and have been unsuccessful. What I reported recently is a gangland hit that nobody in the public, at least, knew about until I wrote about it. The Merlino guys knew about it. The feds, the police in Philadelphia knew about it. Grand juries were convened before the pandemic related to this investigation. But even the government was unaware of this when it happened, because the victim was a non-mob affiliate. Wasn't known as someone that hung around with the mob. So when he popped up dead, it wasn't traced back to these guys. But this is a group, as you know, Jeff, and then I'm going to throw it to you when I kind of give a bite size synopsis of exactly what happened. This is at the time when that group was fighting a war against the Sicilian Don John Stampa. And there was a lot of bloodshed. Both groups were kind of in this kind of bunker style in foxholes. But as this is going on, as this warfare is going on, the Merlino crew has other rackets that they're running. And one of these rackets, according to my sources and according to what's been told to the grand jury, was a drug racket. And at some point around May of 1993, at the height of all this warfare, the Merlino crew got scammed out between $150,000 and $200,000 worth of drugs and cash. And Joey Merlino's best friend, Michael Mike Chang-Changalini, was the person that was kind of in charge of these rackets. And he had someone that was running point, who he deemed responsible. That person is another prominent member of this group. He called them to a meeting. They got into a physical altercation for Mike Chang, blaming this guy for what happened. And then a couple of days later, the guy that had scammed them is shot to death, leaving a bar in, I believe, some part of South Philly. But the investigation is happening in Norstown, which is out in Montgomery County. And this was, no one really knew about it. When Ralph Natali flipped in the late 90s, he was a, I'm sure people that are watching this know who he is, the kind of front boss for Joey Merlino. He tipped them off, they started to kind of know about this. But as the 2000s continued, they accumulated more information to the point where in the late 2010s, they actually convened grand juries. So Jeff, let me kick it to you after that kind of long-winded synopsis, giving your initial thoughts. Well, I mean, you just really add this to the list of unsolved hits involving these individuals, or allegedly individuals, right? You have, and look, I'm just going to say it, there are two things about what you said that I find interesting. I've said to you many times, I don't believe Joey Merlino is the head of the Philadelphia Moff anymore. I don't, I've said that many times. I just don't see it. I think he's tired of that world, and I think he's moving on personally. Does he still make a little money from it? I don't know, probably. I mean, I've often wondered in my life, and I've said to you, you know, he lives well, he lives better than most, how? You know, I think that's the big question. But I also wonder, you know, if your chief person telling you about this is Ralph Natale, who as we know, not exactly someone I believe if he told me this guy was blue. Yeah. You know, that's kind of the question. But this is something that for years. Just to clarify, Jeff, I think this is, he was the first one to tell him about it. I don't think they got to the point almost 20 years later when they convened a grand jury, I don't think it was simply based on Natale, because like your point out, by that point, it's credibility had been quite. Right. And I think this has been the challenge for the feds in this area is, you know, they've never really been able to figure out any murder to connect these people to. And that's always been the challenge, right? You have, you know, Turkey and you have Casasanto and you have a totally different, yeah, Long John. Sure. But I think, you know, what's interesting and fun about this group is I remember when Ron Previti started getting around the Joey group. Joey was always very cognizant not to discuss drugs ever. And he would always say, you know, essentially, you know, watch yourself with that kind of thing. You know, maybe this is something, and again, I'm not saying he did do this, but maybe if he was involved in some way in this back in the day, maybe this is something that kind of persuaded him to get out of that world. But just to be clear, I don't believe, I reported that there have been two people that have been calling from the grand jury that I'm aware of tied to this group. One being at one point, a pretty high-ranking guy now is still a pretty major player. And I'm reporting that he took the 5th Amendment when he went in front of the DJ in either 2018 or 2019, and then the wife of another pretty prominent high-ranking member who was allegedly at the bar the night that Mikey Chang got into a physical altercation with the member of the Marlino crew who was in charge of this command. I don't think they realized he was a con man, but this guy was running point for that racket. And when they got scammed, this particular member, the Marlino crew, was called on the carpet for it. And this wife of one of the Marlino crew members was present allegedly at that altercation, not at the murder. And I just really want to be clear that right now, Mikey Chang is the only name that's been tied as a suspect to this. I would assume that Joey had some knowledge or involvement, but I haven't heard that. Here is the thing. I mean, in the end, let's say this is connected to Philadelphia, right? Let's just say it's Mikey Chang. Here's the problem. Mikey Chang's dead. He's been left for many years. He died in two years. We haven't said that. He died, like, within weeks of this happening. And again, I mean, this has always been the challenge of, like, look, if you murder a co-ed in 1995, maybe there's a way you can tie it, because there's blood and there's all sorts of things. This is a gangland style hit in a parking lot, probably, with back in the day when there's no cameras. This would be incredibly hard to prove beyond a reasonable that anyway. And again, this goes back to the continued challenge of, we'd always talk about, and I've heard Georgia and Estasia mention, you know, people mention about the Philly crew. You know, the gang that couldn't shoot straight, that sort of thing. But I'll tell you what, if they were involved in a lot of this stuff, they got away with a lot of it, didn't they? And look, they're never going to speak. We've talked about that before. The difference between this group and primarily every other mob family is they're all friends. They've been friends since they were kids. They have a bond that's unbreakable. And I'll tell you what, you mentioned a wife. These wives are the same way. They are a group in a way. They all know each other. They all hang around each other. They're family. I mean, they're literally and figuratively family. I've told you, I've seen individuals, sons of these people, you know, people related to these people that all pal around with each other. And there's rumors that one was involved in something involving family. It's great. They're all, they're all close. They're all together. And, you know, I think this would just be something you add to the long list of people that have died. And there's possibilities maybe people are involved. But, you know, this is the problem. What was that? Yeah, I want to be, again, I want to be clear about something. If you haven't read my reporting on this, first I reported that, hey, this happened and that there were grand juries that were convened in the pre-pandemic 2018, 2019. But then more recently, I've reported that they're from my sources. There's no traction on this investigation in 2023 that there was some traction in 2018, 2019. And this is real quick, and this is the substance of what they have at this point on these people. Nothing, right? They are, they're trying to grasp at shrawls, you know? And, you know, this goes back to, like, the whole, when Chikichang died. I know you guys talked about it. You know, I remember, I've been to that restaurant that he hangs out at, or he did hang out at. Yeah, Stokey Joe's right. I mean, they would watch him. I mean, in his 80s. I mean, they have a hard on for this group and they don't like these people. And they're going to try to grasp at any straw they could possibly grab at. And this, you know, who knows? I mean, there could be others. We don't really know. But will there ever be hard evidence that could connect them to anything? And even if there is, I've always said, and I think you would know this, like just because you get a suspect in something doesn't mean you have a conviction. You've got to then prove it, you know? Yeah, I'd go a step further and say, you can know exactly what happened, you know, from, you know, the very start of a hit to the very end of a hit. You can know who exactly you did it, where it was done, how it was done. That doesn't mean you can prove it in front of a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. And this is what makes someone like Joseph Molino extremely interesting and fascinating because I've told you, I think he has seen the last of a jail so I don't think we'll ever see one again. I think he has distanced himself from that group. He's a, I think one thing we don't talk about with him. He's very insulated. There's no question. And he's an extremely smart individual. He's calculated, you know, he's around someone and they mentioned something. I don't know what you're talking about. I've never heard of that. I don't even know what that is, you know? He, he's, I think a lot smarter even than the other people in the group, right? Because we've heard them get caught on, you know, at making ceremonies, things like that. He's insulated. He's, you know, if he is still involved, I mean, he's doing it very quietly. I think he's realized I have two grown daughters. I have a wife and I spent half my life in prison and I need to, I need to stop, you know? Jeff, I think to your point, the making ceremony that we know took place because of these, some, some cases that recently, some Fed cases that came down recently against this group in the last couple of years. And there was a informant, a confidential informant that was wired up at a making ceremony in 2015. And Argyana, almost, right, Anthony Perciano, almost all of the major players in the Philadelphia mob were present, but guess who wasn't present? Right. And I'm sure to your, he is removed and incredibly, you know, we joke about it all the time with the Godfather. He's got a lot of buffers. If we, real quick, if we're talking about, like if everything that's ever happened in his life that we think happened, if all of it's happened and we look at the amount of time he's been involved, right, arguably since his 20s, you have to look at what he's done as one of the more extraordinary runs in the history of this thing, right? Luckiest man, luckiest, smartest, savviest. Yeah, like he, like with Chinchaganti was boss what, 30 years, that's a long time, right? You don't last that long. I mean, this guy, I mean, this guy's 61 years old. I mean, he, and look, he's done some time in prison and he took, he took the weight on something, but I mean, that's all it's ever gonna be, you know? Let's compare and contrast though. This is kind of interesting when I think about it. Let's compare and contrast the Merlino, the alleged Merlino regime of the last 30 years and then the two prior regimes. In both of the two prior regimes, the Scarfo regime and the Stamford regime, you had- I don't think it's comparable to be honest. Not just soldiers, but coppers and administrators that were convicted of murders. I mean, John Stamford is doing life in prison right now for homicides that he ordered in the Merlino war, including the murder of Mikey Chang in, you know, the months after the sleeper hit we're talking about here, died in Joey's arms. I mean, this is like something out of a, you know, a Scorsese movie. And, but look at, from when the Merlino group took over till now, and like you said, it's been almost 30 years, roughly 30 years. There's only one guy that has a murder rap. I mean, a conviction. Nicodemus. And it's a state case. It ain't a fed case. He'll get out. He'll have nailed one of these guys on a murder in 30 years. I mean, I'd have to figure. I mean, I, and I'm not sure on this. I remember I lived in Philadelphia when this happened. I mean, he's got to be approaching parole at some point, no? He's doing a Nicodemo? Yeah, he got 25 to 50, right? I mean- He'll probably got another 10 years. Well, yeah. That's what I'm saying in the grants. It gets closer than it, it's, you know, it's closer than you think. I mean, you figure, I mean, when he went in, I think he was in his late 40s, early 40s. And he'll get out as an adult when he's got kids. But outside of that, that's, as you said, the only one. So I think there's a, there's a couple other things I want to drill down into with this. So you had a situation, allegedly, where this guy scams the Merlino crew and the person that Mikey Chang, and again, I haven't heard Joey's name involved in this part of it at all. So I have no idea where Joey was, what he knew, what he didn't know about this part of the story about Mikey Chang being at a bar in South Philly, being alerted that this scam had been perpetrated. I believe Mikey Chang was drinking, possibly using some drugs and was really jazzed up about this. And he calls a member of their crew, a member of this inner circle, one of, let's say, one of the top five to 10 guys. And he calls them to account for what happened and they get into a physical altercation, which includes a firearm, someone got shot. So that part of the story is actually in some ways more explosive than the no-name con man, drug rip-off artists that we don't know. I don't know his name, I don't know the specific date when this happened. I just know that grand juries have been convened and people in the Merlino orbit have gone in front of those grand juries. But what is it? I think it's, I'm gonna give my quick analysis and then throw it to you. I think it's, again, speaks to the tight-knit nature of this group that their oath and their bond is more to each other than any LaCosinostra family that this prominent member of the inner sanctum could get into an altercation like that, get sent to the hospital. But at the end of the day, it didn't cause any animosity. It was kind of like two, I mean, it's extreme, but it was kind of like two brothers fighting and then afterwards going out to have a beer. And it's not like this guy has ever even shown any remote sign of going off reservation. So I think it speaks, it's crazy it is to hear that these guys came to blows and somebody got shot and had to go to the hospital, but it didn't really wreck the crew. I mean, the crew stayed intact and it's for another 30 years. Friends fight, right? I mean, usually I've gotten fights with my friends within a day, it's by, hey, you're going out tonight. What are we doing? So yeah, again, this is what makes it all so interesting with this group because it's unlike anything we've ever seen in any other family. It's more broad, like a lot of family members in like the Bonanno crime family don't know the once in the bra, like they don't know each other. So yeah, it's fascinating. I've always said, I mean, if you know anything about South Philly, I mean, it is extremely small. It's extremely compact. I've said also most of these people are related, right? There's a connection familially through an aunt or an uncle or a cousin or something. And they're all family, really. They're all one big family. They all have some sort of connection. And yeah, it's fascinating. But I think it's, you have a hierarchy in a way where maybe the individual that got beat up or shot, he was in the wrong and he said, you know what? I'm wrong, but Chang was upset. He pissed off, he was drunk and he did something, maybe he shouldn't have, it was a little heavy, but yeah. I mean, that's the fascinating thing about this group. It also speaks to the type of guy, Mikey Chang was, love him, hate him, like him, respect him. This was like, you know, the definition of an OG, the definition of a standup guy, someone in this world that check all the boxes and you're not gonna get over on someone like that and last very long. And again, I'm not condoning that behavior. I'm just stating for the record that Mikey Chang was the type of guy, if you stole $150,000 from him, it's not shocking to me to find out that this guy was dead within a week. And I also wanna be clear in my reporting that I don't think Mikey Chang was the shooter. I think he was present, but another pretty prominent member was the shooter, I'm told. And then another guy that is a big part of this crew, but doesn't have any, has never been convicted of any acts of violence, was involved in some getaway driver capacity. And, you know, so there's a lot at play here. And this thing has stayed under wraps for a long time. I don't think anything's gonna come of it. I heard that in 2018, 2019, that authorities thought they might be able to build a case here and this could be the trump card to bring down this group and that they were gonna bring a case that nobody even heard about and that they might have gotten a partial print off of the car of the victim. But now what I'm being told is, this thing is kind of in the rear view mirror for the feds. I think it would be in the FBI's best interest to just start looking into other business at this point because it seems like they're just reaching a lot of the stuff on this thing, and they keep bringing these popcorn cases to this group and you wanna put them away for five years, that's cool, but they could do five years quick. And it sucks. I mean, they have families and things, but they'll take it, it's better than doing life, right? But yeah, I mean, this is all pretty, pretty flimsy. And even if someone did come forward, who would it be? I mean, wouldn't you ask where you've been all this time? Yeah. You're just coming aboard now. I got this reported just for the record and I also wanted to state that this is something, again, the public didn't know about it, but every major crime reporter in Philadelphia that covers this group knew about this four or five years ago. When the grand juries were convening, this wasn't a secret amongst the criminal reporter, gossip circuit or whatnot. And I sat on this for quite a while. And honestly, I was waiting for someone in Philadelphia to report about this, but when it's been four or five years and Chickie Changalini died last month and we were talking about Chickie and you have the anniversary of both this situation that we're talking about coming up and the anniversary of Mikey Chang's murder in August, I felt like it was appropriate to come out. And I don't want to, like I said, I'm not naming names. And even if I did name names, these aren't people that I don't think will ever have to account for this. I wonder if they've seen the grand jury and they've said what they've said and I've heard that anybody that's gone in front of the grand jury has pleaded the fifth. So- You have to wonder with Mikey Chang, let's say he doesn't die, you know, where would he have been in the hierarchy? I think he would have been boss and Joey would have been under boss. But then he also throw in like, and I was thinking about this, like the person that I've always been fascinated by, like what if Salvi Testa kills Nikki Scarfo, right? And Philly and Eddie, let's just say he, I don't know, he just says, hey, look, Salvi, I'm out. I don't, I'm out on this. I don't want to be a part of it. You know, and he leaves and goes wherever. Who knows? How did they work with this group? Does this all come to a head anyway? And when I heard Salvi and Joey got along really well, I mean, Salvi was going to marry Joey's sister. That is until he, you know. Right. So, until he wasn't going to marry, until he broke off. Let me ask you, what do you make of, I spoke to a woman. I don't know if, I think I've told you about this. I spoke to a woman that claims she essentially said she was the reason he didn't marry Maria Marlino. She had a relationship with him back since they were kids. And she had wrote a book about it actually, very interesting woman, Rosanna Brucci. Pretty interesting. But that's, that's here or there. It's a different story. But I mean, I love playing that game of like the what if game. Like how fate could have spun in a whole different direction. Because this could have been three groups. No, I mean, it could have been, you know, the Salvi group. It could have been the John Stamford. Cause John Stamford had come across to me as someone who was just going to get out of the way. And I think it was a, John Stamford was a, the John Stamford era was a result of circumstances. I mean, he, he was a forgotten entity. Like in, after the Bruno hit, I don't think anybody would have told you in the, you know, in the mid 80s, that someone like John Stamford could ever come back on the scene and take over. I mean, people have written them off the page. But when Scarfo gets locked up and he had the ties in New York and the Gambino, you know, Gambino's inserted him in there. Right. Yeah. He was just kind of a, a wheel guy. You know, he was like a soldier, right? But yeah, it's all interesting. Cause they're all kind of different groups. And, you know, we've, we've talked about since some of these guys have gotten out, you know, they've all kind of seemingly just started, you know, working all the time. They've been, it's been relatively quiet other than the case that they brought against Ligambi and Stano and Mousie, who by the way, you know, Mousie's child then is out now. But that was, you know, dubbed racketeering light by George Anastasia and the rest of the Philadelphia media. And I think that was an appropriate tag. And then you had the case that just came in 2000, it was a 20 or 21 against Stevie Mazzone and Dom Grande, which you know, two pretty big fish, but you're not, they're not sexy cases. I mean, even though you have this case had the tape in it with the making ceremony, that was sexy. But the case itself is, you know, weak. Yeah. It's pretty run of the mill stuff. It's not put anyone away for, for decades and decades. Stevie's got to go and do six, five, five or six years, which he can do standing on his head. And Dom Grande's got to go and do, you know, probably seven, six or seven. And, you know, he'll do some easy time and walk out. I don't think people, I don't think people understand. And look, it sucks, right? Cause you're away from your family. They've got kids and things like that. But I don't think people quite understand, like for people like this, how simple that is. Like these federal prisons, they're going to, they're going to Lowe's. They're not going to USPs or anything. They're going to go, they're going to hang out with people. They're not going to have to go home. Yeah. It's, it's incredible. And they have money. It's not like you're going to starve. You know, it's, it's, it's essentially it. I'm sure if they didn't have families, they wouldn't care at all. You know, it's, it's not that bad. I only issue though, kind of on, on the Scarfo thing. I'm just curious about this with you. I did an episode this week on Joe Vito, Masternardo, right? Big bookmaker and I got a lot of people in the comments where they say, I don't believe that he would tell Nikki Scarfo to fuck himself basically. And I'm, I always kind of say, well, yeah, but remember, I mean, his father-in-law was Frank Rizzo. And he wasn't necessarily in Philly, right? He was in out in Monco and the suburbs and the main line. Do you believe he actually, in one way or another, said that to that group? I think I don't, I would have a hard time believing that he would say like to Nikki's face, he would tell Nikki to go fuck himself like that. Tell Nikki to, you know. I think it's definitely possible that he made some comments that got back to Nikki. I think it's definitely possible or probable that some of his posturing was perceived as a you know, I'm not going to respect you at the level that you think you deserve to be respected at. And I'm going to continue doing my own thing. And I don't care if you're a little closer boss, you're not going to see a piece of my thing. I think he was an outlier, you know, a unicorn. And that's to his credit. I mean, look at the money he was making compared. I mean, he was doing big things, man. Big, big money and really did not let these guys get their hooks into him. If at all, it was very, very marginal. And as we know, he brought, you know, refused to be, refused to send Scarfo and then Stampa and then Merlino and Natali, he was never sending them envelopes. So, and he was like the biggest, definitely the biggest independent bookmaker in the area. Sure. And in an area that is very gambling rife. I mean, there's a lot of gambling is big in this area. So, but yeah, I think the Philly family is, is, is fascinating. They've always been fascinating. But yeah, I don't think they're ever going to connect any of these. So you got a lot of smoke, but that doesn't mean there's a fire. And it's one of these things where the longer it goes, the further you get away from these things, it's just not realistic logistically or even protocol-wise without someone that's gonna get on the stand and point the finger without any hardcore physical evidence that ties somebody to a crime scene. It's not gonna happen. And right now there isn't anybody that is gonna get on the witness stand and point the finger. And there isn't any physical evidence tying these guys to any of these unsolved hits that have kind of been lingering out there because we know for sure, based on what history tells us with the way that the FBI and the US prosecutor pursues these guys, if they had any physical evidence, they would have brought a case. And remember, it was 30 years ago, 30. But even if you wanted to get into what was going on in the early 2000s, that's 20 years ago. Even if you don't want to take it back all the way to the 90s, if you just want to go into the early 2000s with what happened to Long John Marterano and Ronnie Churchey, which was 99, but Marterano and Johnny Gongs were in the early 2000s. But you look at all these, you look at all these hits, right? Okay, they would be incredibly hard to prove, right? So you have one who was driving a car and you have one who, now today you run into a house and there's cameras. But back then, it would just be super hard to prove. And who knows if the witnesses were even around, they could be dead by now. I mean, you really, I wouldn't think any of these people are gonna have trouble sleeping knowing this info's out. Yeah, just to wrap it up, I mean, the reason I wanted to report this was I thought it was newsworthy and I think it's just an interesting historical footnote almost to the Merlino era, because it's something that the Merlino era has been chronicled ad nauseam and I'm guilty as anyone. I've written quite a bit, I've done quite a bit of content about the guy and some of it can be redundant, but this is definitely a anecdote from the early Merlino era that nobody really knew about. And it's, like I said, it's not really, oh, just burns you know what he's talking. It's like, these were, there were grand juries that were convened to take testimony on this. And real people in the Merlino camp were called in front of these grand juries. So, like I said, it got, if you're gonna make the analogy of a sporting event, the feds got to like, you know, the third quarter and they were in the game, but by the time the buzzer sounded at the end of the fourth, they had run out of gas. And I think maybe, you know, you can sit there and play the what if game, maybe what happened with the pandemic, disrupted the momentum. And if the pandemic never happens, they finished the game. But the fact is we're here in 2023 and I'm being told this thing ain't being brought. There's not gonna be any more grand juries. So I just wanted to report it. I wanted to get Jeff's take. Thank you for joining me, Jeffrey. Yeah, I think unless they involve us as the drugs again, I don't think they'll ever see the jail cell again. I think it would be very difficult. And the top suspect, like Jeff pointed out right when we started to talk about it, top suspect was killed within, you know, two months of that happening. So. Right. Thank you, Jeff. This was, you know, a shorter episode than normal, but I didn't think we need to, you know, we had super interesting nonetheless. I mean, just add it to the list of unsolved, you know, bodies, right? And maybe one day we'll get a name and we'll get a date. But I, you know, I wouldn't wasn't able to provide that. And frankly, even if I was, I'm not sure if I would. But thank you. Thanks, Jeff. Please check Jeff out on the sit down. An amazing podcast. This guy's a rising star in our genre. And he's already, he's not even a rising star. He's a superstar in the betting, sports gambling world, touting this guy is one of the best handicappers in America. But. I try. I don't know if I am. But it has, is quickly making a name for himself in the world of organized crime reporting. And it's been a pleasure working with you and combining for this kind of crossover. I have an idea for a show for you and I in the next couple of weeks. So I'm sure we'll get you on our show pretty soon. All right, awesome. Thank you, Jeff. OG podcast, we will see you next week. Scott Bernstein, Jeff Nadu for Dr. Bucilato, who is great in papers. We're out.