 Kim was a very jolly. She'd make light of anything. She was always there if you needed help, but she would be very, she'd always crack a joke. You know, Kaylee was, she was, they were like twins, they were like sisters, till she met that certain person. And Kim was your daughter? Yeah. And she was a bit more than your daughter, wasn't she? She was a bit of a best friend. Yeah, well we lived, well we lived so close together, and when she hit teenagers, I tried to treat her like a sister, rather than as a mother and daughter, so that if she had any problems, she could talk to me. Now, you've said to me before, you thought that when Kimberly was born, and Kimberly was coming home, that brought about a change in Kaylee. Oh yes. She suddenly realised she had to choose between him and the baby. I don't think she realised she had to choose completely, but I think she realised what it was to be a mum. Because when she brought that baby up that car, she had a smile on her face. And women know this as the proud look of her mother being in the baby home for the first time. And here there was no sign of him. And for him, the perpetrator, somebody else coming first was the final straw. Oh I think so. Yeah. I think he was jealous because Kaylee was down at the hospital with the baby for 24 hours. She wasn't under his control at that time. Looking back, that's why I think he did it. He cut the cables on the computers and all the fish tank and things like that. My daughter's partner found all this and he told him she had to go to the police. And the social services knew as well because they told her she had to go to the police. She then went to the police and the police, he was told to go to the police station, he never turned up. I mean he threatened many a time he was going to burn us all out to come back. Even me. But we all thought it was the bull stalking. Didn't think he really meant it. It's not till after that we found out his past record. So this is a big warning. He's damaged property and he's made everybody anxious isn't he by and the dogs out causing chaos. So on the day of the fire, what happened? Because the baby came home didn't she? The baby came home about 10 past four on a Monday afternoon. I last seen him about quarter to seven because Kim wanted some pillows because the baby couldn't lie flat. I went from there and her partner was coming up with some chips from the chip shop because she had nothing in for them to eat. And that's the last I seen of him until I had a phone. I knocked on my door at quarter to four the next morning to state that Kim's house was on fire. I got dressed, I ran down there which is two minutes away from where I live. And all I seen was my complete road was fire engine after fire engine right the way up to the main road. There was police cars, policemen, there was an ambulance. And all I could see was the windows were black and the smoke was coming out the roof. And I knew in my heart they'd gone. I knew it. If this film is going to be seen by people who run services, leaders in Wales, what would you say to them about what we should do to avoid and to protect families? Well if you've got information on a certain person for whatever reasons that causes concern, let the family know you don't have to go into detail. There's no other exclusion where there's no way that person's allowed near them. And don't go buy books because books are only a guideline, they're not a human being. And everybody is different. Talk to people, ask them how you can help them. But also talk to other agencies. So they're aware and none of this, oh well we didn't know this, we didn't know that. My daughter tried and tried and tried and nobody put her on the right path. Nobody helped to say, well we can do this or we can do that for you. If somebody had said that they could stop, didn't you? Can I just thank you for doing this? And I think your feistiness and determination that this won't happen to other people is an absolute tribute to Kim and Kayleigh and Kimble. And if they're looking down on you today they must be full of pride really. Well it's all I can do for them. But I just determined to make sure it doesn't have to happen to us. I know I'm realistic, I know it probably will happen. But it shouldn't.