 Uh, and I'll just go ahead and start your life. Okay. Got it. Okay. And I'm going to go ahead and Well, I mean it's it's like so we'll just go ahead and record it as well. Um, so just to kick things off, uh, I need to just for anybody who's new to the call for the first time. Um, uh, we have an anti-trust policy. So please, please, realize yourself with that. Um, also, uh, we abide by the hyperledger code of conduct. Um, really excited about this meeting today. I've been able to bring together, um, some, some different, um, members of the SIG and friends of the SIG, um, who were at COP 27. It was a really great experience of my first COP. Um, and I think that the focus of this meeting is to really kind of bring together a meeting of the minds, uh, to, to kind of allow everybody who was able to attend, um, to kind of share their thoughts, uh, value that they see in COP 27, uh, or just COP in general, um, to kind of help impart that value to some of the different members of the SIG who might not have been able to attend. Um, I found COP to be, uh, an incredibly valuable experience. And I think it is a, uh, a real opportunity for open source and distributed ledger technology in general around this climate, the climate challenge. Um, and so I wanted to provide this opportunity to house a speaker panel, um, to, to kind of help everybody understand the potential value for the different work that they're doing. Um, and, um, and, and kind of, you know, give a kind of bird's-eye view and insider's view. Um, so what, the way I'm going to kick this off from the way I'm going to organize this is kind of get everybody, uh, a chance to share a little bit about who they are, what they're working on, um, and, um, what they wanted to accomplish for the COP and, and how that worked out, right. Very, very kind of, hopefully not too long-winded through minutes at each. Um, and then I wanted to give all the, all the people on the panel kind of a heads up of three questions that, that I want to ask you so you can think about it a little bit. Um, the first is, because this is, we're talking about open source, we're talking about distributed ledger technology. Um, what is the greatest opportunity for, for DLT and open source around this, this climate challenge? Uh, so that's question one. The second question I'd like to hear from everybody is the perception of DLT and potentially the challenges, uh, that, that it faces. Um, and, and hear thoughts on kind of what needs to be done to overcome that. Um, and then last, if we have time, what I'd really like to do is hear, um, uh, your thoughts around the role that the Linux foundation or hyper ledger should play or could play. Um, where you see it fitting in, we should be thinking about within the SIG, um, is, is we try to find and provide value to, to, um, you know, develop solutions to solve this climate challenge. Um, see a couple chats there. I'm going to try to monitor this as well. Um, so, um, well, I guess I'll kick this off, uh, by just allowing some of the different, uh, people there there just to kind of raise their hand. And then what I'd like to do as we go through this is just to hear a little bit about, again, who you are, um, what your goal was, uh, going to cop in, um, with your organization and, uh, and kind of how you accomplished that, uh, in, in the value that cop played to kick things off. Um, so did anybody want to raise their hand and go first? I'm going to have to plug in my machine before it runs out of juice. Robin, you, maybe you would you like to kick things off? Yeah, uh, that's one question in the chat from Chris. He's asking if you can put the questions in the chat. So it's easier to, um, follow them. Um, the first question was the, uh, a general experience or wasn't the intention that I had when I turned it over to you. Uh, we just, uh, just kind of talking about, what did you say? I'm sorry, Robin. Um, I was asking like the first question. I'm happy to start with that. Just for a quick introduction for, for everybody to share, uh, just, you know, the work that they're doing that brought them the cop. Um, and, um, and what you wanted to accomplish and, and how you accomplished it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so what brought me to cop? It's hyperlature and our special interest group and we applied a year ago and, um, the reason I attended was firstly to get an impression like what is going on at the global stage. It's such a big stage for climate change. What is the mood there? What people attend the conference and just to get a feeling about what is the spirit and to learn how we can use open source technologies as a coordination tool to take a climate change together and how hyperlature and product, the Linux foundation could fit in into this ecosystem as a facilitator to bring different stakeholders together and develop the shared software that we need to, um, for example, um, account for carbon emissions or what is needed in a carbon trading space. How can we coordinate all the digital monitoring reporting verification system? And so that's what I went there for. Um, I mean, the outcomes of this cop personally disappointed me. Um, just doesn't really feel like progress or just feels like we, like there's no chance for us to reach our 1.5 degree Celsius targets, but at the same time in the Paris agreement, there is many, um, articles about like bottom up approaches and to everyone I talked to at talk and everyone I met, everyone is skilled, is motivated, dedicated, and it's, it helped me to find some faith in the people to really, um, address climate change together. And, um, what I haven't figured out is how to do this together with governments. Um, it feels like the work we're doing on the ground is not so much aligned with them at the moment. Um, maybe larger entities like the Linux foundation can have coordinate there. I don't know, to be honest. Um, um, but yeah, it's climate change is also an opportunity. It's not everything is bad. And, um, it's many challenges and solving challenges and, um, jumping on the opportunities is fun as well. Um, yeah, this is basically my impression. Um, she would have not seen if you put the question somewhere. Um, but I'm happy to um, pass the stick to, um, I see Chris. Yeah, let's uh, let's have each person go through the introduction first and I'll post in the questions right now. Hey, Chris, do you want to go ahead? Um, yeah, that should work for me. Okay. I'm assuming this is Chris Adams you're referring to, not another Chris on the call because there's quite a few people on the call, right? That's right. I was referring to Chris. Excellent Christian Paul. I'm sorry. Okay, good. All right. So, um, my name is Chris Adams from the green software foundation. Uh, I work at the policy working group there. Um, the green software foundation has a goal to basically change how we build software. So there is zero harmful environmental effects and there's like direct impact from the actual creation of software and it's in its own right. But that wasn't primarily the main reason we were looking to go. Yes, we wanted to understand how people essentially build and create standards or see what the, see how the sausage gets made at COP because this is my first experience, uh, engaging with COP as well actually. But the main thing that we were actually look, one of the main outcomes we were actually looking for was actually a chance to see some of the other Linux foundation or related members to see what they're using and to get a better understanding of their theory of change to see where we have, uh, complementary aspects of what we're doing basically. That was one of the key things. So I actually found, um, the outcomes from COP in terms of actually access and understanding how things, how various like machinations of the process, I found some of them quite useful. So the idea there being something called a kind of global talk stock take that's, that is currently halfway through, I've realized that one of the key things that may be irrelevant for this group is that this is the first year that all the people who are creating benchmarks and various kinds of climate action tracking tools have basically started to say, this is the first time we've actually had meaningful, helpful data. So we can at least see how far off track we are. Like there's been this kind of generic sense of dread that's been around for ages, but one of the key things from the people who have been creating this stuff was, wow, actually we're seeing some of this data now. We are getting an idea of what the investment gaps look like on a kind of sector by sector basis. And we are seeing changes at a kind of regulatory level, which basically make it easier to see a scenario where at the next COP, you could plausibly say, okay, we're off target, but with this much off target, and this is the required investment, or these are the actual things that are necessary to create the transparency so that we can shift our glide path from being wildly off to something more like 1.5 versus science spells out. There was actually some useful stuff that that did come out of COP at this level, which was things like generally a kind of surprisingly renewed consensus I saw around people talking about 1.5, whether they actually commit to that as another matter, but it very much, I was I was half expecting people to be playing down 1.5 based on the discussions I've been hearing previous to the event, but that was very, very much front and centre all the way through the event. And even groups like the ISO have basically come out and said, if you have a corporate net zero target, and it's not halving your emissions by 2030, as is described by the science for 1.5, it's not really credible. So I really feel that there was quite an interesting data driven push for that, that we could plausibly capitalize on. I think that's one of the things that I found quite useful. And that's probably the biggest thing I would share with you, or with this is the group, because they there was this kind of renewed interest in the fact that, yeah, you can track this. And a lot of the problems related to understanding the environmental impact of organizations are very much like supply chain problems and things like that, which I think some of the work that is being described here really plays well into. There's some stuff about carbon markets, which I'd be honest, I really struggled to understand. I'd be really interested if anyone made sense of that. But it did seem that there was some work there, but it did feel like there are quite a few holes in that part. And maybe that's another place where it would be plausible to propose something to close up some of the massive gaps that were being put forward at the kind of article six of the decisions that were being made there. And I think that's me actually for now. I'm happy to kind of give the space to other people because there's a few others who are there as well. Yeah, thank you, Chris. That was really well said, really good points. I also struggled to understand carbon markets. But I hope to learn that. Christian, do you want to go next? Yes, thanks, Sherwood. Yeah, so my name is Chris Ampau. I work for the NERVA Institute in South Africa. We are an independent not-for-profit focusing on quality of life in low-income households in Southern Africa. So the reason why I went was because of our involvement in developing digital methodologies for cook stove projects. And within the Edera ecosystem. So that was, within that context that I went. I wanted to meet other people that are doing the same kind of work and that are doing related kind of work. And I wanted to link up with them with the aim of doing projects, of learning. And I think in that sense, it worked out really well. I made a few new contacts of people I didn't know before and also got a sense of how rapidly things are developing. I attended the Edera Day. We're within that ecosystem. There were a lot of people together and that I was struck by the momentum that there was on different aspects in low-less, let's say on the project level, in the space where we operate, but also in terms of markets and financial instruments and other things. So that was interesting to me. I think the one thing that I picked up in general is that there is a broadening of the scope as time progresses. In the beginning, there was just talk about climate change mitigation. And then at some point, the realization that, but you know what, we have to adapt as well. Part of this is a done deal and we have to adapt. And so adaptation came into the focus. And then, recently now, the whole thing of loss and damage, then there's this thing that, I mean, this is to such an extent a done deal that some people are going to get it really badly. And we have to find mechanisms to compensate for that. So what's interesting for me, just observing the whole process is that broadening of not only mitigation adaptation, and then really to almost the disaster management aspects. And the requirement that we account for those other outcomes, let's say the traditional core human concerns, poverty, hunger, employment, human rights, that we do not lose focus on these things, but incorporate that into a way into which we account for the consequences of our actions in a consistent way. And that is where I think I was encouraged by the fact that at the SIG, we are at the standards working group. And in general, we are thinking about those things and looking at those things. I did have the impression that what is required is an effort that is, I mean, that is orders of magnitude larger than what we are currently doing. And the other question is, maybe you also experienced that in the blue zone, how do you rise above the noise? Everybody is doing something and has an idea of what everybody must do to make this better. But maybe not the question is, how do you rise above the noise? How do you sing along in a certain sense that this thing becomes a chorus and not just a series of disjointed voices? We want to say the same thing, but do that in a slightly different way. So what is that mechanism of public consensus seeking coordination? That's a question that I have. Thank you, Christian. Just moving things along, I guess I'll go to Miro. Would you like to go next and share a little bit about your work? Hi, everyone. Thanks for the opportunity. Happy to contribute my thoughts. So I'm Miro Poitz with IAI Glotcher. It's a civil society organization accredited to the UNFCCC. And my organization is also a founding member of the Climate Chain Coalition, which is the leading network in the field of blockchain for climate co-founded by the UN Climate Change Secretariat. And so my expectations and role at the COP 27 has been that we, of course, the conviction that blockchain technology can be a game changer. It can enable the climate action coordination and incentivization in unprecedented dimensions. But there's a disconnect between the UNFCCC process, which is a meeting formally of diplomats and national government representatives with these non-profit world representatives, observed organizations, but formerly the private sector and many of the digital innovation solution providers are private sector. They have formally no access to the process and as this COP is the biggest coming together of those working on tackling the climate crisis, it's important that we open up entry points, build bridges between the communities. And this we have done with the Digital Innovation Pavilion, Digital Innovation and Digital Art for Climate Pavilion, with the Climate Chain Coalition as one of the co-hosts. And we've had support from Unique Network, NFT Platform, Carbon Market Exchange and H-Bar Foundation. And we've had also several solution providers from the Hedera ecosystem was really enriching and we've had sessions about the power of open source and digital public goods. Sherwood, you have been there with Chris. Chris was involved in one of the meetings that we had around the creative community and how climate kick can be always a partner for future rounds of the pavilion. So for me it was a proof of concept and it was a learning exercise as we primarily target COP 28 as the big place where digital innovation for climate could be one of the most important topics of the presidency and also with a much stronger presence of the digital innovation community, blockchain community. And I'm very happy, very satisfied how things went. We have already several partners lined up for COP 28. We are speaking with UAE authorities to have other activities in the green zone and the blue zone, somehow building bridges and linkages between the world of those who have accreditation and those who don't have the accreditation because and also virtual participation of course is also a key component that we have lower environmental footprint at an inclusive UNFCCC process. And I'm happy that we have been able to deliver a little bit of leadership and opportunities and implemented innovation. So I'm quite happy how things went. I see of course the shortcomings of the national government's based conference and process and outcomes. It's absolutely unsatisfactory. It's in my understanding the whole principle of global community coordinating on this big global change, climate change with nation-based structures, systems failure, design failure. National governments are not able to deliver on global challenges, responses, but blockchain technology, DLT can enable social innovation, global public sector innovation and that's what we are here for, to help generate, help evolve in the spaces that we co-create. Absolutely, well said. And I'm just going down the lift here. I want to hear from Sanchin. Hey everybody, it was really fantastic to meet everybody in real life, I do have to say. So in terms of my background, I am obviously in play in the intersection of blockchain and sustainability, right? And so my company is RecycleGo. That is company number two. My primary company is United Meta Recycling, which I've been a recycler for 22 years for those who don't know me. And six years ago, I got into the software development slash blockchain space by trying to really think about recycling and how we can apply blockchain to help people recycle better, providing that transparent chain of custody for materials to add values to recyclables. Over the years, RecycleGo has gone from logistics solution, logistics optimization, supply chain optimization, and now we've really developed a carbon accounting platform as well to track the carbon impact of what we're putting through the recycling supply chain. So we were, you know, I didn't realize this as I got into the software development basically journey that it never stops. So software development is just like, you know, okay, so what else can we add? But I'm very heavily involved in recycling, especially when it comes to plastics, plastics recycling, and part of the conversations on that. And so Oceanic Global, I'm a member of that in terms of blockchain. You know, I work with the HBAR Foundation like with, you know, we're part of the working group as part of the Global Blockchain Business Council. We put out the voluntary ecological markets like a white paper that was published in version two was published in September, where right now working on the carbon emissions token taxonomy and standards that that hopefully this latest version will be ready in time for Davos. So we're trying to set the standards and everything like that. My goal in terms of my takeaway from COP, I actually like, you know, to Chris's point, there's a lot of data now that's being generated when it comes to climate. And where does blockchain fit into that? I always ask myself that question, right? You know, how is blockchain or actually more specifically, how is that shared ledger going to be leveraged to get us closer to our climate goals, right? And that's the question that we do need to ask. I like, I tell a lot of people like that have blockchain solutions, like, you know, if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail. And blockchain really isn't appropriate. And it's like, you know, you have to ask yourself, is blockchain like, you know, can we solve this problem without blockchain, right? Whenever you're trying to build a solution. And I think that's a trap that a lot of developers fall into. But I do think like when it comes to DLT, like, we have an opportunity for when it comes to carbon markets, to really use blockchain as our digital MRVs is the monitoring, reporting and verification to accelerate that cycle to release, especially in the context of COP 27. How do we get financing? How do we get climate financing accelerated from the purse strings, right? Whether it's from corporations or from like, you know, the, the, the nations or whatever funds are available. How do we tap those to accelerate solutions to, to actually accelerate financing to the solutions to need that? Whether it's from like, you know, there was a lot of talk about regenerative agriculture this time around. And, you know, I see blockchain as definitely a solution to use as a digital MRV system to unlock financing for those kinds of solutions. For me, like, you know, we are, we've proven out that basically look, you know, for plastics, plastics recycling, every ton of plastics can save 1.6 tons of carbon dioxide, right, versus virgin plastics production. And we're, we're going to go through a project development cycle to use blockchain as a digital MRV system to unlock that kind of climate financing, because plastics pollution is a huge problem all around the world, especially in developing nations, which is basically the focus of these climate change talks. So, you know, my goal for COP was to obviously this is, this was my first COP. I wanted to see what was out there, see what the conversation was around, also to find like, you know, project partners and financial partners. So, as a startup, I think I, along with everybody else, so we're always looking for financing, right. But that's what, you know, I think we, we did, had a lot of good meetings during COP. Obviously, it's following up. I think for COP, I do think that there wasn't a lot of progress. I agree with everybody. Like, you know, I don't think there was a lot of progress at all. And great, we have a loss and damage fund, like being established. There was no talk about how much there was no talk about like, you know, how is it going to get financed and how it's going to be deployed. And I mean, I do think we're, it's a step in the right direction, but if like the Marshall Islands are going to be underwater, it doesn't matter how much money you're throwing at this for loss and damage. So, I think like there was a lot of language that was diluted that doesn't get as closer to our 1.5 degrees Celsius, like targets. But we will see what happens. Can blockchain be used as a solution to leverage? I do think like, you know, we have to focus on, there was the global methane pledge, which I think is fantastic. And, you know, back to Sherwood, like our example on like, you know, basically the methane track and all that kind of stuff. I think like, you know, this is a great use case to see if we can look like, you know, use blockchain as a way to really measure and account for and hopefully lower our methane emissions, like, you know, and hopefully we can, you know, if I can be helpful in terms of doing that. And I would love to be able to assist on that. I'm actually speaking FYI, like, you know, I am speaking at the chemical recycling conference in Houston in March, using blockchain to really measure and account for the carbon savings for chemical recycling from like, obviously, like it's a big talk, especially when it comes to plastics, chemical recycling as a way to get virgin quality polymers from contaminated plastics. And now it's like, there are obviously a lot of environmental groups that accuse these parties of greenwashing. But if we can show the carbon savings through blockchain, then I think we can move the conversation forward. But Sherwood, obviously, I'm going to be speaking to the right parties when it comes to the petrochemical companies. So let's definitely link up on the methane and how to like deploy that. But enough of my rambling, I apologize for that. But that's that was my take. And, you know, happy to share more. Absolutely. And I will definitely take you up on that. Thank you, Stan. Yeah. Really, really good. These have all been really good input and feedback. And this has been really useful for me because I'm hearing different perspectives that some of them I hadn't considered, some of them I haven't been able to make the table, so that this is what I'm really hoping for. Amir, would you like to share a little bit about yourself, your work and kind of your focus at COP and how things fanned out? Yeah. So first, hi, everyone. My name is Amir Gurgis. And I'm starting a company called CarbonEVac. I'm trying to build a digital, new carbon and nature band for Africa, how to look at a financial entity that has the expertise, the tools to deploy for the SMEs and the local communities in Africa main day and the global south in general, if we would put it. And my aim for the COP was first, that was my first COP. I want what we're building this for the climate and nature. And I wanted to know what's happening when people, this is the event where everyone talks about how we as humanity are going to make sure that that is not going to happen. So I wanted to understand what's happening there. That's one thing. I also wanted to understand the, or to get a sense on the global south point of view of things. Because personally, I see from my exposure, there are a lot of work happening in Europe, in the States, about what we can do and even in blockchain and DLT and other technologies and AI, but how can we bridge that gap to what's happening in real life in Africa? So that was another point I wanted to see. Third point is I actually wanted to see you guys. Unfortunately, I was only able to see Sherwood and Robin because when we gathered, I got sick while lost. So that was a fail goal. And yeah, so I think that's question one, question two. On my experience, the greatest opportunity for DLT and open source climate challenges. Hold on a minute. Hold on a minute. I was going to open that up and people have been mixing that up a little bit, but I was basically just trying to do the intro first and then kind of move into that to kind of break it up and create more of a conversation. So very quick. Well, let me ask, is there anybody else from the climate? I think some people might be attending. If there's anybody else and I'm missing on the call. I didn't see anybody, but I want to make sure. Okay. Right. So when I went to COP, I was kind of in my head representing three different interests, the interest of the supply chain work and the, particularly the methane emissions reduction pilot really all focused around scope three being able to use blockchain to kind of track the emissions rates and then emissions profile and unlock the kind of government finance, the green finance, government regulation, consumer demand, which can decarbonize supply chains. It's a kind of high level mission. So trying to find people to partner with people to prototype with and I did have success there. But obviously, and mentioned, we could definitely use some help. So if anybody has any connections in with regards to the global methane pledge or any players in that space, we'd love an introduction. We have a team of developers that are working really hard. We have won the hyperledger challenge and we also won the IBM call for call for code challenge. So a lot of momentum. But right now we need to move to develop pilot. We need to develop a use case. I think this is a particular interest too, because as I will share, I think what what DLT and what open source really needs right now in the climate space more of is use cases and successful pilot to overcome some of the perceptions and misconceptions that are out there. The second organization that I was representing was climate action SIG building awareness, wanting to kind of bring more expertise to the SIG. I have a lot of people that I've connected with and so I'm going to be reaching out to them. I'm going to be inviting them to join the SIG. I'll be inviting them to kind of come speak with the SIG. I've met a bunch of different subject matter experts that I think that we're going to be set up to have a really strong year next year. Using the SIG is kind of the center of gravity for expertise sharing in all the different areas standards, technology, open source, what kind of sort of different pilots are going on to really kind of help people understand kind of the the the status or the state of this kind of larger problem we're trying to solve. And the third organization I was representing was hybrid. I came across a lot of different organizations that were working on different aspects of the problem. They were always very receptive to talking about some of the different ways that they could participate with hyperledger, you know, the idea of open source PLT that produce value proposition, and so had some some very good conversations that I'm going to continue and probably lean on David and some of the other folks that hyperledger a little bit to kind of understand how to answer their questions and kind of help them in the right direction. I don't have a comprehensive understanding while the technologies are out there. So that's something that I need to kind of figure out. But yeah, so that was it for me across the board. I had success in making those things and really kind of understanding what is going on in the industry, not really the industry, I mean it's not an industry, in this kind of problem solving space. And that was really important for me to kind of understand the different pieces and what the different pain points were and to get an understanding of, you know, how to, this is really important for kind of helping me understand, you know, how to navigate with the SIG and how to navigate within the hyperledger environment and kind of be more informed and more strategic in kind of moving things forward. Still a lot to learn there. And then that's part of the reason that I wanted to have this conversation. So we've, we've burned up a lot of time with these introductions. We had a lot of good, good, good input sides. It's all been valuable. And so what I want to do is with the remaining time, I want to spend about half of it going, skipping to the question about CLT and open source within this climate challenge problem, and just kind of open up the floor for about 10 minutes to have everybody share their thoughts on what the opportunities are, what we should be looking at. And then after that, I'd like to kind of go to like kind of last one minutes to a little bit more about hyperledger, open source, Linux Foundation, and what your thoughts are and what we should, within the SIG should be focused on, especially hyperledger as well. What role should it play? What value can it play? What are the moves that it should make to be able to position itself to participate in a value provider in this emerging space? So kicking off on this area of the opportunity for open source, the opportunity for DLT, what do you all see as the greatest opportunity in the climate space? What's the application? What should it be used? Sherwood, maybe I could just start by saying one thing. I think the, if it's not going to be open source, it's not going to work. I think the open source philosophy is the only approach really to doing something at a global scale that where everybody has to be able to be included. So I think the, and that's not only software, that's also standards definitions, procedures, methods. I think science is one of those enterprises where the public nature of it is what makes it great. And it's more sometimes lip service to that because people keep the, there's always, there's also a sort of tension within the practice. But I think the open source philosophy that we make the information that we have and the tools that we have and the concepts that we make that public and make that open, that leads to quality because it leads to scrutiny. But I don't see us establishing ways of accounting ways of doing things in any other way really. So I think that the open source in a certain sense is almost the core, one of the core values that is part of the solution. I don't see anything else apart from that. Thank you Christian. I agree. I'll open and say just a high level perception of the opportunity for blockchain and open source as well. Just my general, what I saw was a lot of financial institutions, corporations that need to invest, to decarbonize their production efforts. And what I was hearing was kind of a couple key barriers and essentially it was the access to data, the ability to kind of have trusted accurate data and the ability to kind of understand and measure risk. And that is what's keeping this trillions, trillion of dollars that's sitting on the sideline from being deployed to drive the essentially the greatest decarbonization effort, the greatest innovation effort that I think that we've probably ever seen. Because if we're talking about every single supply chain, every single company in the entire planet needs to change the way they're doing business. So I see this massive buildup of need and resources. And on the one side, and again, people saying the problem is access to data, the ability to share data, the ability to trust data and understand the risk. On the other side, I heard a bunch of different technologists who are kind of behind the scenes. Not really, there's not really kind of a great connection or communication between the kind of the leaders of industry and the people who are kind of building these solutions. A lot of them building with blockchain, but you know, a bunch of different technologies are building. So I kind of see that there's going to be this not really a linear movement. I think there's going to be more kind of a watershed or a breaking of a dam because I see the technologists that are building the solutions, they're really working hard to get the use cases. And I think it's going to come together and there's going to be kind of a breaking point where there's going to be just a tremendous amount of activity. And so I kind of feel like the technologists are just like, we're building, we're building, and we're going to be ready when the dam breaks. And we're going to basically have the pipes ready for this information to work, right? And so I think that is the area. It's challenging that area that you know, there's not a tremendous amount of resources yet with these technology solutions, but there's going to be in the near future. And so the opportunity is understanding how to kind of position everybody and collaborate together to kind of develop that solution and kind of create that information layer for information sharing. So I'll pause there and see if anybody else is up there. So if I may follow on you, share with on that is I see one of the greatest opportunities lies in tracking the energy sources. And that is renewable energy certificates. I believe that this is something that is just there and the use cases are there, the interest is there, and it's much easier to validate and report on than the standard carbon credits and then the carbon offsets in Janet. This is something I feel strong about because if we need to move to more renewable energy, then we need to track it. And with all the green hydrogen talks that are getting in there, they need to prove the origin of the energy. And again, this is there. I also during that cop, I there's a use case for training verification people. So how can we use blockchain in providing and this is this is where Robin was actually very helpful in in providing a an identity reputation system where we can train people to become verifiers and you can have them cross audit. So these two points are where I really think that doesn't make a lot of disruption of the current system. So there would not be a huge resistance or huge effort to implement them. And yet they might have very big impact. Yeah, I can also share like where I see the greatest opportunity. I think it's data. Everything is about data at the moment and blockchain can really coordinate data and ensure its integrity and also enable verification of data. What I think we would see in the blockchain space is in a couple of years when blockchain technology will be integrated in our lives. It is something like HTTPS so encrypted websites with SSL or TLS. So when you go to a browser and maybe you look for some information, we can limit it to climate related information. Then you will have a label could just be like the log saying it's encrypted or a check mark saying it's verified and you don't really face blockchain technology or DOT. It's just there it's under the hood. It's integrated into the internet stack. And it's just there it's a given. So just few people really deal with it. But everyone is using it and blockchain itself is not for me where there's like this market opportunity. It's the layer that builds on top of these verified data and that provides all the opportunities. And for me personally, we will be there when blockchain is integrated when we don't talk about blockchain anymore because we don't talk much about HTTPS. It's just a given. And having this in place would mean we have reliable climate data that we can always verify when needed. It's not that we need to verify everything all the time. But sometimes if there's something missing or some chain of trust cannot be completed completely, we know where the data is missing, where it's coming from. And then we will be able to manually figure out why it is missing or if we would still want to trust the data. But it's an abstraction layer that we need to build and use blockchain technology mainly as a verification tool for the data layer that we build on top of for other solutions. It's true. Same for identity as well. I don't care if your ID is valid. I cannot prove it because I don't know how another ID looks like. I don't know how the German ID looks like. Maybe I'd be able to really verify it when it's in front of me. But there are trusted services that can do this. And for digital IDs, it's cryptography. And I trust in cryptography. And if we can complete approves, I'll need to trust it. And we need tools that do this in the background for us so we don't get in touch with it too heavily because it's more distracting than value-adding. But see it as machine learning. It's there to support us. It's not there to replace us. It's there for blockchain technology. We need a thing. Where can we need some support? And then the solutions that support us and help us as human beings do what we can better with technology. Right. Really well said. Well, we need to get there. Right. So what is the role that Hyperledger, what is the role of the sanction? Which of you should be focusing? What role does Hyperledger play in helping us get there? What should Hyperledger be focusing on? What makes sense for it? Definitely silence. Okay. I'll try something. So I think focusing on the open and public aspects. I think, you know, a lot of the interesting thing about, let's say about Hyperledger is there's a lot of, there's a lot of, let's say something like Hyperledger Fabric functions a lot of the time as a private network between trusted partners. Which is obviously fine for the use cases which is useful. But there's really this need, I think, for a public and open ledger that has a lot of flexibility. But it is essentially a public thing. And we, you know, some of these things can play out, maybe different, even people reporting according to different standards or whatever. But it's all out there in public and in that thinking. So obviously then, so promoting tools and protocols that help bring this whole thing to the public level. I've got one question there maybe for David. And then promoting that interchangibility, something like protocols for atomic swaps, because everybody will not do these things on the same network. People will do things in a different way. But where are those interfaces where you can exchange the one for the other, you know, where you can perform that swap without splitting the world into two parallel universes, things like that. So the whole public nature of the thing. So my question is to someone like David is I'm not sure if Hyperledger is more suited to functioning in the public sphere as some of the other tools. But that's just a story. Hey, Christian. Yeah. I mean, all the DLTs can do that, you know, fabric, for example, Bezu. So yeah, I think I hear your point. And yeah, I mean, this goes to maybe what Sherwood had said earlier, maybe it could help the group to get more of a understanding of where the technologies are and what pieces exist that can be used. And we could, you know, look at ways that we could do that. I know we've had some technical, I think Peter, for example, from the cacti project has come in and worked with you on the lab, for example, so we can facilitate more of those sort of technical conversations if that's helpful. I think that would yes. I'm sick Christian. One question, though, thinking about, I just think about technology adoption, right? And, and, you know, I think I've been thinking a lot about scope three and talking to different companies about kind of sharing kind of emissions data amongst parties within a supply chain. And the thing that I kind of appearing, obviously, is that there's a lot of concern about making a lot of this data public. And so I kind of wonder if I agree with you this information is be public, but I'm wondering if it's, I kind of think that in order to get it corporations to adopt the technology and really kind of try and use case the real value in changing at a certain level. There's different levels of information that need to be shared. And the principal network, it allows them to really kind of share very detailed information that they can use to kind of collaborate together to kind of tackle high emitting parts of the supply chain. Now, not all that data needs to be potentially not all that data needs to be made public. I'm wondering if there isn't, like you said, kind of, you know, sharing of information across chains where you have, for example, fresh networks that focus for kind of very tight networks that are really working to decarbonize the supply chain, the kind of the higher level of information that's shared by the product or the facility level, when they, you know, that the baseline or the result of those efforts is shared. I think there's just kind of like different layers of information sharing and sharing of different levels of granularity. But I kind of, I kind of see it happening like multiple networks working together, different networks for different altitudes of information sharing. I totally agree with you. I see it like that as well. But if you think like the internet, the internet is basically the core of it is public. But you come to a website and then you come to your Gmail and then you log in. Then you go to that part, which is only for the one for the party that has the password or that goes to the two facts. So in other words, there's a public interface, but the public interface gives access through the access control mechanism to something that's private. Let's say there's a public ledger and all that. Or there's something like there's a namespace like in sort of there's an address inside that address. There is emission data. But you cannot decode that unless you know, you are given access to that. But at least the, but then there's another, let's say there's another, there's another address that is that is viewable, but by the public, which contains the aggregate data, not, let's say not the raw data, maybe the annual aggregate, which is the reporting, which is what public reported. And maybe those with permission can check that the raw data adds up to the aggregated data. But not everybody can, but you know, the auditor can or the members can or whatever. So public taking the almost the primacy of the public ledger doesn't mean every single thing, every single data point has to be public. But it, it means that you start with, with this thing that everybody can have access to. And then they, they all these guides that you can, you know, that, that some parties can can see that the thing, the thing behind the guide to the thing in front of the guide is the same thing. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like we're agreeing to agree. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Does anybody else have anything else they'd like to share? Opportunities in opening up opportunities in the space, challenges that boxing faces areas that we should focus on. Final thoughts, we're kind of running out of time here, but we can, we can run longer if anybody else wants to stay and share. I think I can check my schedule a little quick. I think we've been texted, but would like to share something on that. Oh, yes, David, please. Yeah. For a person who is not attended the cop, but watching it from the sidelines seemed like there was a lot of, it was disappointing. But, you know, we could, we could argue about that. But anyway, it doesn't matter, because we are faced with an existential crisis. And obviously, since the existential crisis is unfolding, is unfolding at a long time scale. It is not, it doesn't seem to be as, you know, sharpening the people's minds as to the solutions. Anyway, coming to the solutions with respect to the hypolygia, I think there is a case to be made that we already have a very, I wouldn't say very good, but at least comprehensive standards in the form of UN SDG. And UN SDG is not just those 14 things that you often see. It underneath it is a comprehensive sort of a, you know, many, many more granular details on how the SDG can be measured. And so instead of trying to bootstrap another standard process, we can try to reuse that. And maybe we need a lab in hypolygia or somewhere where we can actually build something that would interface with this and can be placed in a company or, you know, the problem is the emissions come from decentralized sources, meaning every company, every household, every sort of production activity emits stuff. And it's unless you can somehow track this. So let's start with some of the biggest, you know, sources. And maybe we can, we can use this, you know, it requires a lot of data wrangling. And there are some efforts out there to transform that the data into the UN SDG type measures. So maybe there's a space for something very concrete. I mean, I agree with all the stuff that you guys said about, you know, the open source being the place. But unless we have concrete ideas to offer, I think it's going to be just one more of those, you know, conferences that focus on talking and not on doing anything. So yeah, I think you make a, sorry. So let's, let's, let's start, you know, very soon on this and then integrate, you know, we had tried to build some kind of momentum on breaking the silos before. I think the financial markets, SIG and this particular SIG and some of the other supply chain and other kinds of SIGs can come together in this, it can be done on a very, you know, start something, start with something very, very limited in scope, but kind of bootstrapping it off UN SDG measures. And they have published a lot of material on. So, and somebody else can back me up on this, but so one of the things that I've noticed that there are a lot of different organizations that are building in silos, there's a lot of different standards out there. And all these standards are going to be, you know, implemented for different types of problems, right? The financial marketplace, the people who hold the purse strings to finance projects to decarbonize, have to take all these different standards and understand them. So I, what I'm trying to say is focusing on one individual standard is kind of like putting all your act in one basket. One, so one thing I would kind of put out there for your consideration is that I think what needs to happen is the ability to bring all these standards together and be able to provide a way to translate those standards for the finance when people have the purse strings. And I think one first step in that is being able to use DLT and different solutions to be able to allow people to kind of easily see and kind of compare the standards and integrate them together. So that's an area, that's an area of opportunity that I think that you went to type ledger or somebody needs to play. And there are some different players out there that I'm kind of talking to that are kind of kind of crack this problem. And, and I'm in reaching out to the CTC, you know, where Linux are not sponsored Linux or Hyperledger, the Climate Action State could participate by value there, but I'll pause. Yeah. I hear what you're saying, but to compare a UN standard for SDG to some standard released by some organization, which is limited in scope is not helpful here because you know, the the COP itself is organized by UN, right? So if we can drive it all off that kind of a global agreement, unfortunately, even though the UN is has got its challenges and is seen as weak, it is the only global government that we have. I mean, truly. So that that's where, you know, we, I think we have to start there. It doesn't mean that we won't be looking at translating other other standards into this. But we have, you know, this is this is the world we have. Quickly react to something that Ben said. I think you are putting your finger on a very valuable place. There is a SDG ontology that the UNEP started, but it looks like they abandoned it off way. And a very concrete step would could be to pick up on that and maybe just bring that thing to completion and to operation. That there is a formal ontology for the SDG. I would look into this because one of my collaborators has indeed looked very closely at this. And so I mean, I don't know the scope of of where exactly they are where, you know, in terms of but the SDG has been floated for, I don't know how long it's been around for at least seven to eight years or even more. I don't know when it was started, but I think it's maturing. You know, there is that you mentioned the ontology that you discovered somewhere, but maybe there's more concrete things than that. I will, I lost my collaborator to send me some material on this and I can share with the group. Please thank you. I got the idea that it was much more concrete and it was measurable. Usually when it came to specific SDG goals because there's 167 goals. So what I mean is that the technology implementation is unfinished. So the interesting thing is they started with implementing that in a formal ontology. The system that they have with the SDGs and the goals and everything and it looked like it ran out of steam, but I think picking up just on the technology side where as all of the rest of the stuff are sorted out, that could be a valuable contribution. Yeah, let me look a little more into it. I mean, you know, not that we're going to rush into implementing something inside the hypolygia labs for this purpose, but at least it will help us background the discussion into a standard that which can be adopted, I hope, by lots of countries because they're already signed into the UN charter and everything else. And there have been a lot of attacks recently on the whole ESG philosophy from a financial markets perspective, where of course, you know, the old arguments are trotted out, which are only profit matters, nothing else, but profit towards what? I mean, if you're all dead in 50 or 100 years, then profit doesn't really matter. And profit on the backs of human suffering has always been a feature, not a bug, of the financial markets. So while profiteering all kinds of stuff based on shortages of grains, you know, food grains, all kinds of anything to do with climate change, you know, there's a pushback, especially in the US, based on some bad faith arguments, according to me anyway, I mean, their main argument is you cannot measure it. There's a lot of companies engaging in greenwashing. So let's chuck the whole thing. I mean, it doesn't work because instead of refining the weaknesses, handling the weaknesses of the current system, they're talking about, oh, it does, you know, we can't measure it anyway. Forget about it. Yeah, I think that we came across, you know, there is an argument, but I think one of the great things about attending the COP is that there are a lot of people who are working with the existing solution and with system and building solutions to kind of tackle that. So, you know, the day fairs, and they fail, they want, the people are, you know, heads not building, right? I'm going to have to, I thought, guys, I'm going to cut this towards tonight, I'm going to have to go, but I did just want to say, I think this last piece that we kind of began speaking about and around kind of standards and understanding how to bring standards together or I think that's a really interesting area, but I'd like to kind of continue the conversation in general understanding how we, I think in general, is a solution, philosophy, understanding how we can begin to bring together all the different solutions and standards that are better being built is a really interesting space, which is, provides a tremendous amount of opportunity, and it is that kind of a larger internet of environmental data that needs to be solved. So, that's definitely an area that I'd love to continue exploring. I want to thank everybody who joined today. Thank you for the great insight that you shared. Thank you for your expertise. Thank you for your time. I'm really excited about the work that you're doing in the work of the SIG and, you know, interested in kind of moving this conversation, this work forward. So, thank you everyone. Thanks everybody. 15 minutes left. So, there are some deadlines coming up that I put links in the link in the chat to all the documents that show what the decisions are that were made at COP 27. And in some of those decisions, especially surrounding Article 6, there are opportunities for us to go ahead and either critique, provide recommendations, provide input. And I hope that people will look at those and pay attention to the due dates. There are four of them that I found in just one of those documents. Thank you for that. I just saved the chat. And so, I'll be able to take a look and I highly encourage everybody else to do the same. Thank you, Elizabeth. Sure. Thank you. All right, everyone. Thank you so much. Have a good week. Thanks, everyone.