 Y254, imagine. All right, fantastic welcome back. You are still hanging up with us right here on Y in the Morning. Right about now, we're about to delve into matters, politics, and you can always chime in on the hashtag Y in the Morning. You can find us everywhere on all our social media platforms at Y254 channel. And personally, you can find me at Brian Salko 101. The hashtag is still Y in the Morning. And also, this segment is all about politics. So we're just about to get a quick scoundrel of what else is making headlines political-wise. And this includes leadership, opportunities, the situation in our country right about now in matters state of the nation. And joining me in this conversation is a very powerful gentleman. He has, I'll say, a gangster CV or a gangster resume. And the one and only Mr. Honorable. Let me call him Honorable. Isaac Maura, Maigua. I believe that is his middle name. He's a politician. He's also a disability advocate and a former nominated senator in the Kenya Senate representing persons with disabilities. He was also the first member of parliament in Kenya with albinism. And also, at age 22, he was a 30-year student. He was appointed as a government pioneer board member of the National Council for Persons with Disabilities. And in 2006, he joined the ODIM. That is the Orange Democratic Party. He has also worked with various local and international NGOs in and out of the country. A, he has a master's degree in development studies from Nelson Mandela University and also a master's in social and public policy from the University of Leeds in England. He's also a published author and a columnist at the Star newspaper, just learned of that lately. And he has so many titles. This is just like an intro of part of his CV or resume. That's why I'm calling it a gangster. And joining us live in studio to take on this matter, we're going to delve into matter state of the nation honorable Isaac Maura Maigo. Or I believe it's Isaac Maura Maigo. Isaac Maigo Maura. Oh, Isaac Maigo Maura. So Maigo is your middle name. Yes, it is. All right. First of all, happy new year. Good morning. Nice to meet you. Thank you, Brian. I'm happy to be here. All right. It's my first time on Y254. Oh, it's your first time. But you've been to our big brother station. Yes, all of them, actually. So welcome to small brother. The other one is a big brother. This is small brother. Welcome to Y254. Thank you very much. Just to start off on a light note, how was your 2022? Of course, it was an eventful year in our country. We had a election. The new leadership came in place. We had also new CSS who are appointed. And then towards just the middle of the year issues, not even the middle, it was the end. We had issues in security coming up. There was a lot of boundary attacks left, right, and center. Of course, the economy took a nosedive. And so many other things happened. And here we are with the new administration. How was 2022 for you before we get to the matters at hand? I think it was a roller coaster. It was a great year with ups and downs. I was in the roughened tumble of politics, campaigns, in rural constituency, very, very deep into the interior, meeting all people, all sorts of works of life. Joining the presidential campaign team, coordinating Campbell County, doing issues to do with persons with disabilities and political participation, of course, the issues of election management, the actual day, which was really quite interesting, being in charge of the whole of Mount Kenyon West. And then coming all the way to the Supreme Court rulings and the final settling down of the new administration. So it's quite something. All right, let's start back in Nairobi. Recently, is that recently? Yeah, recently we heard that it seems to be like a back and forth going on between our deputy and our very own Nairobi governor, Honorable Sakaja. And this is in regards to matters, even closure of entertainment sports, let's say, bar and restaurants that were closed. But then, even in the People Daily newspaper, he says today, he says he's not going to back down. But on the other side, the deputy is so super forward. He says that, you know, before Sakaja makes any move regarding business in the city, he should first call for a meeting, or he should first consult from the people who actually assisted him to come into power. And this includes even, he said, long-distance matatu should not operate in the CBT as well. So this actually disenfranchised a lot of business. And from why you sit, do you feel it was the right move? Are we heading in the right direction when it comes to ensuring that the city stays afloat business-wise? I think the mainstream media was trying to look for a story because now the Kenyakwanza government was settling in. And they were trying to create fissures within the Kenyakwanza administration as to perpetuate the narrative that is highly polemic, that this versus that. I mean, you've succeeded in doing so. I don't agree with you as a mainstream media. But I think the issue of noise pollution is real. In our cities, people may not even be able to sleep. I was just listening to a documentary by a journalist in BBC about some woman at Pipeline who couldn't just have any tenants because next to a church that was making a lot of noise at night. That's a church. Yeah, that's a church. So I think there is agency in making sure that this noise pollution is reduced. But to close people's businesses again is not acceptable. Because these are people's livelihoods. And, you know, Nairobi City County is the ones that have been sponsoring or other licensing these people. So I am of the view that they can be a middle ground because there is agency in what businessmen are saying that you cannot just cut us off our livelihoods. And let's remember that this is a hustler government. It's about a small man. It's not about big business because if it's about big business, then you could deal with it in a very structured manner. But small business, yes, do it, but also consider that these are people's livelihoods. Now, since it kill them to a liquid, Nairobi could have put it, including the governor himself. Right. But on the other side, he has a lot of backup or a lot of support from the Western region. They said it's the right move and they're supporting him. So he could be, you know, like you said, perhaps it's the media trying to take a different tangent or there could be an underlying issue that maybe later on will come to explore. Can I ask you, Brian, can you actually say without a certainty that all of the bars in Nairobi are owned by people from one certain region? Absolutely not. That's why I'm saying this is a media creation and it's very easy to fall prey to that. You see, the equivalent of that is social media where people want to, it's a psychological warfare, you see. So that then people would want to make you doubt about your own self and even how you think of yourself. It's very intrusive. Now, this one is more far-fetched because it's a long shot because then it is being laced with regional politics and we know that way where it is heading to. But I want to say no, the Kenyapuan administration is alive and kicking, is strong, united and you have only one government, that one of Williams and Muya Raputo. Amen. Now let's deep dive to the Nyanza region. Of course, the president concluded his two-day Nyanza tour and he initially, I'll say maybe last year, there was a lot of resistance a little bit when he made his first visit after he was elected into office, but this time round, he had a warm reception. Of course, she is a little wall. In fact, there are billboards erected along the way to just welcome the president of the country into the Nyanza region. Some of the things that were discussed include ensuring that stalled projects are completed and of course, those are a lot of hits and misses, though some of those leaders who complain that, you know, the president should at least visit all the regions. But then, this was just a two-day tour and in fact, and to back it up, he had his support. That is the deputy president, Riga Degashago. When it comes to ensuring that the West, or the Nyanza region stays together, do you think it's going to be an easy move to ensure that all the leaders come on board despite the fact that it's Rila's stronghold? I was there at Gangu village in Asembo, Roryeda, Siyaya County on Saturday. And I must say, I'm very, very happy to have been with the people there. The reception was very warm. So, Siyaya received my most sincere congratulations and also thanks because of the way you were able to host us. Very peaceful and of course led by the Nomia Church, which was started by Prophet Johanna O'Alo, the grandfather of El Yudu Kecho O'Alo, the C.S. of I.C.T. and the Jito economy. And it was very, very interesting because the Nomia sect has broken into 14, you know, Smithereens actually and they have over one million people following us and there are so many bishops there. But it was very good, very peaceful. The leaders spoke very well. My good friend Karolio Mondi spoke very well. There is this young man who is a speaker of the County Assembly of Siyaya. Of course, the governor, James O'Rango and his nemesis of Ajonya, you know, Nicholas Gumbo. Basically, it was a nice opportunity for the leaders to interact with the head of state and to lay bare their requirements for development. If you go to Kisumu, you can see actually Professor Anyang Nyomo has done a very good job. Kisumu is very clean, is very orderly. And if you had gone to Nyanza some 15 years ago, there was a lot of poverty, a lot of poverty. But now going back, you can see good houses, you can see infrastructure is great. And you now see the benefits of the devolution. You can feel it, you can see it. There's improved livelihood quite, quite a bit. And also you can also see possibly the handshake government helped the region. And of course, the Nusumkates, which I also served as an advisor to the prime minister, the government of 2008 to 2013. So that is it's clear that when people are closer to government, you can see some visible development. I think the president put it very clearly, the media again is culpable of trying to balkanize the country, at the root of Tom's Nyanza. I mean, he is the president of the Republic of Kenya. We actually have gone past the elections now, Brian, because the elections was the closest in the history of the Republic of Kenya. Because the difference was only 200 and 34,811 votes, a margin of 1.64%. The ever-closest, similar one was 2007, but at least it was higher because the difference between Kibaki and Raila was 2.35%. So this is the closest ever in history, yet there was not a single drop of blood that was shed. People are maturing, really. The National Assembly had a return of 55% of its members unprecedented in recent history, post-independence. So therefore, we are moving forward as a country. You can see there's a deliberate concerted effort to ensure that we strengthen the institutions of governance. But at the same time, you see also a situation where many Kenyans never voted as well. Eight million never showed up at the ballot. So that also tells you that there is a shift in terms of how we see things. And there is therefore a need for government to ensure that it performs the best. The Nyanza region, even if it didn't vote for William Ruto, they have very powerful positions in government. There is a principal secretary for Interior, the Kibicho of this administration, the Ray Ommolo, then CSL Udovalo, of course, obviously. We have the chief of staff in Regadi Gashagwa's office, deputy president, is another young man from the region. And many other people, people like Dr. Ojoang, he's a Kenya KPLC board member and also the Nairobi Rivers Commission. And many others have been appointed to various opportunities in government, including the chairman of Lake Basin Development Authority, my friend, James Deanga Wawre, who participated in the 1982 coup. He was in the military, a very good old man there that I like a lot, a revolutionary. So you can clearly see a very clear concerted effort to ensure that this Kenya is not balkanized, we are one nation and it doesn't matter your political affiliation. And President Ruto has actually put it very clearly that first and foremost, he needs to work with all of the elected leaders despite their political affiliation. And number two, that he is desirous of a situation where the official position leader position is reinstated back in the parliament. And the creators of democracy, you know, the originators of democracy found it fit that in some kind of a constitutional arrangement where those who do not get to win over the executive arm of government find seats in parliament so that they can play their effective oversight role. And it has worked very well, but in our situation I think we wanted competition to fizzle out. So we have leaders of minority in this case who are basically imposter or mere delegates of the real leadership that is outside of parliament. So therefore it is important to have those who have competed their first runners up to join the National Assembly. And I would postulate and say, even the running machine go to the Senate so that it can lead their troops from within parliament. All right, before we talk about martyrs, I want to ask you a question from a far-fetched point of view. Would it have been possible to see, you know, as mere leader, Ayla Odinga pull up to the situation and maybe say hello? No, no, no, let him keep his distance because of course he has, I'm sure he will also do his tour. I saw he's in South Africa. I'm sure he's going to do his tour as well. But if I was to be honest, Bransakwa, it's about time Rayla Odinga just hung his boots and said, I've done enough for this country. I've run five times for president. Almost everyone in the political scenario has passed through him, including myself, including William Ruto and everybody else. But it's time to say, well, let me hand over this button to somebody else. And people like Kiza Besige did it. And it's okay, it's fine. But I still see a small group of people trying to push him. Because I think it's about generation takeover. After William Ruto, I don't think it would be very easy for Rayla Odinga to beat him in 2027. And that time Rayla will be at least 83 years old. Do you think he'll have run out of the tenacity and capacity to run again? I think the better days are behind him. The Rayla Odinga that I knew, that was really powerful and very nice and very emollient. It was a 2007 Rayla Odinga. At that point, honestly, he was at his prime. I don't remember how old he was, but you can remove 15 years from 78, you get about 63. He was very, very, very brilliant. And very, very, I'm a forthright. That time, he had what it takes to lead the country. But now, I think there is a younger generation of leaders who should actually be given opportunity, even from his own. And you could see, there is that debate. People are bargaining. People are bargaining. I think he should run in 2027. Yeah. No, no, no. The people and their leaders are bargaining. Okay. So, it's not about the person of Rayla Odinga, because he's extremely popular to the people that support him. It's about, we are moving, but where? Are we moving by joining Ruto in his government? Do we create our own alternative leadership? So, and this is happening within Odinga. It has nothing to do with saying, Rayla, now step aside. It's because time has come for that region to have a new leader. Right. And certainly, it may not be the people who are currently in very high senior positions and who have been there for long. I see the group around Karolio Mondi, Davis Obamuchi and, you know, of course, Elio Doualo, crafting a new leadership. And there could be those who will be supporting President Ruto, and there could be those who will provide their own leadership. Right. Away from Rayla, but within the confines of a new narrative that then it is time for young people to take over. So, that's why I'm saying, you know, William Olentimama was a kingpin of the Masai, but he was embarrassed. He had to be defeated before he bowed out of politics. It doesn't have to be that way for Rayla. I mean, this was his best opportunity to win the presidency. It didn't go his way. I think it is about time that now somebody has to take over. All right. He sounded off at some point and said, he feels like Chabukati should be put to jail. He should be announced as a criminal. And then also, in a joint media address recently, we had the president who said that, you know, he feels like Asmio leadership was built on quicksand. And it might be the end of the Asmio leadership. And as much as there's a lot of also young leaders who are trying to vouch for it to stay afloat. Do you believe in those sentiments? For Wafula, I don't think Chabukati, I am of the humble opinion that he's the best thing that ever happened to this country. I don't agree with the idea that he's a criminal. Why is he a criminal? He refused to back down when Asmio wanted him to alter the results. Right. He's the last one. Is it verifiable that he was cost to alter the results? Of course, I mean, it is on record. It is on record. They are sworn affidavits to that effect. At some point, some people are even planning to kidnap him. Others were even planning to kill him. He was even hit at bombers when the final revelations of what happened in bombers came to fall, people will be very embarrassed. So let us not go by that sentiment because every time there is an election, we destroy people's careers. I mean, the most risky job by the Brian Sarko, I must warn you, is to become an IBC commissioner. Personally, I would not want to be one because it has destroyed so many people's careers. What do you think happens in the background? No, no. It's not even a question of in the background. It's the fact that whichever way the election goes, the people who take the flag are there, commissioners, starting with the chairman. Kivuitu is now long dead and buried. He was a first to face a casualty. Then Isaac Eisen, Hassan, Ahmed, he was also vilified. Moussando. Now we have Moussando as a technical person. Then now we have Chabukati. But for me... Then we also had Rosalina Combe, who resigned and went abroad. So I think for me, Chabukati is a hero. He stood by what was the will of the people. It was never overturned. When Akina Chareira wanted that to be moderated and he's leaving the IBC, he showed us high. And I'm very proud of him because they were offered everything. In fact, I was speaking to one of the commissioners and he told me that they were told that they would be rewarded handsomely and they would live very comfortably for the rest of their lives. But they chose to do what was right. And I must say, God bless them, even as they live off his today. Are you saying that because you're an ardent support of the president, you know? You could be saying that because you're in the root of his government. But I'm sure if you were on the other side, you'd have different remits. No, not at all, Brian. Not at all because I have been in this country for a very long time. I've been in national politics. This is my 17th year. So when I'm speaking, I know what I'm saying. There's nobody I haven't interacted with in this country. I was Israel outdinger for 10 good years. I've worked with Mr. Uhuru Kenyatta for four years. Now we are working with William Ruto. So I know the terrain of our politics very well. So I'm not saying that because of anything. I'm saying it with a lot of conviction that Fula Nyonich Abukati is a hero of 2022. He was able to stand firm against all forms of intimidation. And you know, remember, initially when he started out, he looked like he had no spine. He looked like he was malleable. But now he's finished strong. And that's what you need to do. We will remember him as a hero. And history will judge him very kindly. Very kindly, yeah. Because, you know, Fula Nyonich Abukati, anybody who does not agree with the outcome of elections to his favor, he's a criminal. He should be jailed. I don't think we should go that direction, honestly, Brian Sackler. At some point, we have to agree, yes. Whether fairly or unfairly, he's a winner because that is what happens. And he moved forward. You know, you surrender as a tactic, right? He's one of the 48 laws of power. All right. OK. Fantastic. Now, when it comes to the position of the prime community secretary, Azmiro leader, Ralo Dinga, gave his remarks and said, this is just a similar implication of what he had suggested in the BBI, which failed or was not successful. But then it followed with a lot of conversations saying the president should just come out clear and say, he's prime minister because what he's trying to do is maybe try to calibrate or imitate his BBI or say petition to say, for lack of a better word. And then also, I think in the people's daily newspaper today, they say law experts split over Ruto's bid to change the constitution. So it has been tried to be painterly as if he's borrowing a leaf from the BBI. Do you agree with it? I think the prime minister position was first created in 1963, 62, actually. The first prime minister of Kenya was Jomo Kenyatta. And I was watching the other day him taking all the office as prime minister and pledging allegiance to the Majesty the Queen, Elizabeth Alexander Mary, the second. And then it was a consensus, an accord position created out of the 2007 elections. But if you look at the drafts, the various drafts of the Constitutional Amendment, it was a key feature. Why? Because of our multicultural society, many nations into one state. So going forward, the prime cabinet secretary position will be a key plank in the negotiations of coalition buildings in this country. And it was a creature of the Kenya Kwanzaa administration because you didn't need to amend the Constitution to create it. Raila Odinga used to call it chief secretary, chief cabinet secretary. But then the Kenya Kwanzaa, we call it prime cabinet secretary. It is now part of the presidency, according to executive order number one of 2023. Do you want the prime cabinet secretary to also have a docket? You can see he is a chair of all principal secretary's committees. He is the one who is coordinating the relationship between the parliament and the executive and many other responsibilities. Now, if you look at the position of deputy president, it's just a principal assistant to the president. But then the president has gone ahead to give him roles around coordination of all cabinet committees. He's a chair and also he's doing governmental relations between national and county governments. International development used to do with the coffee sector and reforms of such nature. So both gentlemen have got their hands full of work. And that is a novelty of our president. And President William Ruto is somebody who wakes up very early. He's able to do so much within a day different from the previous administration where you'd go to sit as on wait for three, four hours before and you're told to come there at six and you'll be called into the forum meeting at 10 a.m. So I think let us accept that these ideas were killed, for example, for the prime cabinet secretary or prime minister by the ODM, by the way. I was part of it because I really was for. You feel so? No, no, I feel so. Oh, it's evident. I was part of that. Okay. Brian, don't look at me here. It's just somebody who is on your TV talking. I was part of that person. In fact, myself and Meguna Meguna took Rayla Odinga to task on that issue because he's the one who accepted a pure presidential system when we had said as ODM at that time that we are parliamentary system. Okay. And that is when the prime minister position was killed because at that point ODM felt they were going to win the presidency anyway. So they never wanted to share the cake with anyone. But a prime minister position will always be there because of there are too many tribes. And five of them are sorry to speak to you because I believe the last election really moved away from tribal politics. The Gemma, the Kalenjin, the Luya, the Luo and the Kamba constitute 70% of the Kenyan population, 70%. So you really, when you have two positions to share at the top, it becomes problematic. So the prime cabinet secretary position will become a common feature of our government going forward. And if you read my article in the Star, that's what I was arguing. In terms of statecraft, that was the key stabilizing effects the position that really helped us to have a peaceful transfer of power. Right. So it's factual. Anyways. Now, Hassler Fund, I don't know if you'd agree with me. Is it a game changer? Of course, there's been leniency. There was a lot of leniency. It has been also weaponized. And the latest update says around 877 million Kenyan shillings has been repaid with the savings amounting to up to 677 millions. Of course, the money is going to help the Hasslers. That is, sometimes you call it the underdog or the local monarchy. But then at first, there was a lot of, I'll say a lot of heated up debate whether it's a game changer or it's going to actually put the local monarchy into more depth because I remember in the first batch of those who actually signed up for the Hassler Fund, they were like, I'm only getting 500 Bob. How is this going to help me? And I'm only getting 200 Bob. Is it going to even change my life? But then I remember the deputy president reiterated that if you're not a Hassler, then that 200 Bob is not for you. So don't sign up for the Hasslers Fund. Do you feel like it's a game changer for the local monarchy in terms of even sustaining their livelihood, starting a business? I've not heard personally of someone who got 100,000 though, to start a business from what you said. Brian, you know, this country is very unequal. And I want to give you a graphic example of how we are unequal. We are a 10 trillion or so economy, shielding economy. Out of that, only 90 individuals are worth over and above 100 billion Kenyan shieldings. So they own 90% of the economy. So the rest of us, 50 million share the 1 trillion or they're about. For you to be in the top 1% of Kenya's richest people, top 1%, live along the 90, because that is the way we're up there. There's zero points on it. You need to have a net worth of 2.2 million Kenyan shieldings. If you listen to the governor of central bank, the reason why you had to justify why you have to withdraw 1 million shieldings is because over 90% of the accounts held in this country, they cannot come in anywhere near 90,000 and 1 million Kenyan shieldings. That is for the draw. With the draw, yes. And even deposits. Majority of the people, both in the public and private sector, and below three quarter of Kenyans, and below 50,000 shieldings a month. So that tells you we are a very unequal society, extremely. Now, what happens to availability of credit is that on one hand, there's a very small group of people that are able to access credit because they have assets. Right? So they have chattels, they have titles, they have whatever that is there for them to show their wealth. And those are the people who can be lent for. And even then, it's very difficult. Because of the expanded government size, because of the same constitution, now lend us the deposit taking institutions, I've decided to invest more in government. So government is borrowing from the local market over 900 billion every year. That is to mean if you have a business idea, you cannot get money to go and start it because most of that money will be lent to government. And you know, government is not necessarily the best in terms of efficiency of investment. Because a good amount of that money is going for a current expenditure to pay salary and to buy things like teas and pens in offices. Now, the Haasler Fund is a game changer because when people cannot get credit, affordable credit from the banks, they go to Shilox, who are giving very high interest rates to people. And then the other option was Fintechs, this Fuliza, borrowing via the phone. So it becomes a very serious Shilox market, a thousand percent more. So the Haasler Fund has taken money from government, whether it was from our own ordinary revenue, that is the taxes that government collects, or it is part of what government has borrowed from the banks, and availed this money at the micro level. Micro, please note, micro level. Because over 15 million businesses in this country, the Haasler businesses are hand to mouth, day to day Haasles, they earn between 200 and 500 shillings a day. Ask your local border border how much they take home as net profit. Right. So, not income. So you have to look at it from that point of view. And I will demonstrate to you. But before I demonstrate that to you, so it was a very serious game changer because government is denying itself all money for development to give it to its supporters. And then the banks and the telecos, the communication companies, coming together to create a fund that is a competitor unto themselves. And then that becomes a stabilizer because it then lowers the interest rates. And it has really done significantly. You can see Fuliza has cut its, costs, its charges by 50% and all of that. So that is very important. You can see now banks like Equity Bank saying we are going to compliment Haasler Fund with 250 billion. So that is helping many people access credit. Now, let me show you how. I went for a wedding in Fika. One of my staff was getting married and happened to give a lift to some women. And we started having a conversation about their lives. So one of them, Anwandia, maybe she's watching from Kajjado, gave me a very interesting story. An is, the husband is a fruit vendor. Like he has a kibanda for selling foods. But then now Anwandia moves around selling watermelons to the customers. You know, like Waluwana, you know that. And then she borrowed 700 shillings by that time. From the Haasler Fund? From the Haasler Fund. And she was given 665, the rest was retained. And she was supposed to pay this within 14 days. So she took this money, bought these watermelons, cut them into pieces and hooked them around. And she was able to make 290 shillings. Now she was going for the second round with that 665 to make another 290 shillings before she was able to repay. To repay back. So by the time she repays her 665 shillings, she will have made 580 shillings. That is 87.1% of the same amount of money. And her idea was to do that so that she can buy a juice mixer so that whatever remains of the watermelons, there's zero waste because she makes juices out of that and steels it to people. So you can see it is the Kadogo economy. These are the people of the real bottom of the pyramid because those people will never have any collateral. They will not have the paperwork to show that they are doing business. But they are the ones who are the majority of the population. They are the ones who are running our markets. They are the ones who are running our kiosks. They are the ones who are educating our children in our public Harambe schools. They are the people who really matter. You get the point. Now there's an issue of middle out. And people don't seem to understand this because you hear Joe Biden talking about middle out. Now middle out are medium enterprises that have been stuck in the rat race because they don't have enough capital. So they keep on recycling the same amount of money with the very minimum profits. Now there are various products of the Hustler Fund. So the first one was this one. There's another one that will, that initially you have to start from that 2,500 or whatever, 5,700 then to up to 50,000 individual loans. But then there's 50,000 up to 10 million for unregulated circuits. Then 500,000, no 50,000 to unregulated circuits. Then 500,000 to 10 million to regulated institutions. And it is going all the way up to 100 million. But it's going to be graduated. Every two months there's a new product that is going to be launched. So there's a new one that is going to be launched soon. So we have to look at it from the longer term point of view and the whole idea is to make sure that there's availability of credit so that we can also enhance manufacturing and provision of services so that we can create more better jobs and increase the tax bracket and the formalization of businesses so that then you know who is actually working where and how. Right, but then I believe the contradiction or the conflicts come in. There's this person or this local manager who wants to borrow money to start a business. They don't have a business. So they expected that when they'll sign up for the Hustler Fund, they'll be able to get at least 10 to 20,000 so that they can start a business. Maybe they don't have that business. But then when they signed up, they only got 200 Bob. So this means this Hustler Fund is going to maybe only favor someone who has something that's going for them for their lives in terms of like you mentioned, even small and medium term enterprises as well. Cause at this point, we can't see a person who's just sitting back at home signing up for the Hustler Fund to start a business. That's why there's a lot of conflict and contradiction left, right and center. Let me ask you. Honestly, I saw some people saying to November, Hustler Fund to cool at your cooler. Fair enough, at least that day you never died. Somebody started, used some, I think 300 shillings. Why? No 600 shillings, yes, actually. Unbought these Sukumawiki seeds or seedlings. And he planted them. And within two, three weeks, and he was doing it as an experiment, just for the sake of, he was able to have so many of those seedlings from 600 shillings. Each one of them going for one Bob. Because I think he had, I forget the amount of, I don't know if it's 100 or what, but he was able to make 6,000 shillings from 600 Bob. And this is not somebody who was doing farming. He just decided to do it as a way of. Like just by the way, as a job now. You know, let me try what that works. So there are very small ideas that can turn out big out of this money. And the concept is the same by the way, Brian. If you cannot manage 100 Bob, you not manage 100 million. It is how you do your mathematics. It's what you do when nobody else is watching that you are able to be smart and take care of your family and things like those. So let's not try to imagine that the Hustler Fund, it's going to be tender and make you a millionaire. It's not going to be that way. You have to work hard, you have to be innovative so that you move with the flow. As we close up on the run, who do you feel like the Hustler Fund is designed for? Someone who has something going on for themselves or someone who is creative or has ideas? All of them, all of them, all of them. All right. All right, away from that as we close up, let's move to matter security. And towards the end of the year, and even before that, there was a lot of boundary attacks left, right, and center. We had areas that were highly affected, including recently, we had Marsabit, also Lamoon, Kurokila Gangs that came up. Even right here in Nairobi, there was a lot of muggings. And I remember this brought up the issue of the NPR that were deployed to ensure that people or civilians in the city are safe. But then also, it brought the end to, I've forgotten the term, the previous administration that was in, that initially it was blamed, it was in charge of killing and assassinating people. Do you feel like, when you look at it from now on, if you give it like, let's say six or more months towards the end of the year, issues in security, some matters in security so it'll be a thing of the past? No, I think it's an economic issue. People don't have money. Young people don't have jobs. But also, there was a way in which there was a fight back because then there was a pronouncement that police should not harass people. So some of the gangs were taking advantage of that. Somebody was also trying to prove a point, I must admit. I think that was the issue. But at least now the station has been contained to a large extent and we don't hear of those muggings as they were happening in Nairobi. It was becoming very dangerous because people are being marked in broad daylight. But the issue of mandatory is a perennial problem. I believe for me it may even require military intervention. These people know who are the bandits and they should be crushed so that it is no longer a menace. Because I remember when I was very small, very young, during moist time, there was still the issue of mandatory. So it's not just spring up because of the Kenyak once administration. Do you feel like Mr. Kendiqi is going to deliver when it comes to doing a work completely within security? Because there was a region who was there just two days later when he left, there was an ambush, livestock disappear. The Bible says that the moment you hear shots of peace and peace and peace, then Jesus Christ will come back. I don't believe there is any government that is capable of completely annihilating the elements of that cause insecurity. Because it's an economic problem. Sometimes it becomes a sport. Sometimes it's people who want to sell to create a market for their small arms. So Kendiqi is doing his best and I wish him all the best. All right, let's backtrack a little bit matters. The economy, of course, our public debt is still massive. And remember last week we had, that is Prof. Sanju Gunandungu who is the CS National Treasury and Planning in a public hearing on proposed medium-term period for the budget of the year 2023-2024. He said global focus and economic growth to be slow to a margin of 2.2%. But on the other side, China's is said to maybe rise. That is when it comes to inflation, to 2.7%. In terms of sustainability and even borrowing, our borrowing patterns, do you see ourselves borrowing more to sustain? Because the president has been crystal clear. He inherited a dilapidated economy as well. And of course there's debt that was left by the previous administration. And still he will have to borrow again to sustain it when it comes to repaying. And I think also the SGR featured at some point which they said, the contract is not favoring us. So it means we are online, we are operating online. We are actually borrowers as a country. So in short, everybody owes at least a country some money. Yes, I spoke about this very heavily way back in 2020. But even earlier than that in 2014, I could predict that in 10 years' time we will not have a country to run. And I'm very happy that I have been vindicated. Very much so. Because when I tried to raise those matters, I was shut off. But that's not now, that's not what under the bridge. The president has got a country to deal with. And he's trying his level best. How? If you look at the Kenyakwanza plan, their plan is that we anticipate what you call debt restructuring. So that then you try to have, you have people to buy off debt so that you restructure it so that it transfer long. Because now we're using about 1.4 trillion to pay the debt and the principal out of a collection of 2.1 trillion. That is more than half of what we are collecting as ordinary shareable revenue. At the same time, there is an issue of austerity measures, budget cuts, where over 300 billion shillings have been removed from the budget. Really, really drastic. And that has really, really helped. And the president wants to make sure that he reduces expenditure by about 900 billion by the end of next year. I really commend him for that because there is a lot of wastage in government. The other thing that also maybe we need to do is to restructure the state corporations. There are about 280 public entities, most of which are basically siphoning off money yet without providing any good services to Kenyans. About 40 or 50 are there about Komashio. And some of them have to be privatized so that you get money for infrastructure development. It is true that we got into wrong contract with the Chinese. Like this one of Expressway, it's not very good at all. The one for the SGR, they have already broken even for themselves in terms of the volume of business or goods sold. But for us, we still remain with the debt. It only increases our real estate value out of the reach of Kenyans. But our goods are not the ones we are transporting. We are transporting other people's goods. One of the things that of course the president is keen on doing is to ensure that there are tax incentives for production. We are subsidizing production rather than consumption. That's why he was able to do away with the subsidies for fuel, for UNGA and whatever you. But then you can see now providing cheap fertilizer and you see more of this when it comes to revenue raising measures that shall be pronounced by April of this year. So I see a very pro-business approach, but certainly for sure, so that we also be able to reduce the national deficit to manageable levels. There's a lot of work that needs to be done. It's been researched, and this is part of what I did in my postgraduate studies, that the sustainable levels of debt to GDP ratio are between 28% to 35%. But ours now we are nearing 70%. And we cannot compare with other economists of Japan because then they produce a lot of goods and services. So I think we have a robust economic team at the National Treasury. We have the Economic Advisory Council at the State House. And I strongly believe that rootonomics is going to turn us off the edge of the economic precipice so that we have manageable fiscal policy. Right. On the other side, the president has a proposal to ensure that the tax plan actually carries, that is the Kenya Revenue Authority task to scale up VAT collections, which the local monarchy is going to say they are feeling hard pinched. And of course, it's not going to favour the underdog like we call it. No, the 60% collection of VAT and the refunds thereof I think is a misnomer. VAT should be paid at source. And for me, I'm proposing that we should not have any VAT refunds because if you are a going concern, you would have the anticipated requirement to pay tax in future. So if you have been overcharged, because people cook up these receipts anyway, we know that, be given a credit note. It should even be transferable to another company that you own as long as you're the same director. Or even if there's an agreement of such sort. So that you reduce this leakage and seepage. If you're able to increase VAT to 100%, then you are able to turn our economy around. Remember, we are lower middle income economy. And lower middle income economies are able to get up to 25% of their GDP in terms of revenue. We are doing only 14%, 14-15%. So we have to grow our revenue up to about 4 trillion. If you're able to do that, we'll be home and drive because if we look at the current budget proposed for 2022-2023, we are talking about 3.64 trillion. So if you are able to do 4-5 trillion, you are good to go. So that is what the government needs to do to ensure that KRA does its job well. And it requires more resources. The establishment requires more people to be employed. And I believe that the current director general is doing a good job together with the commissioners. There's a new chairman, engineer, Todi Maura. But now, unfortunately, because of the election cycle, between July, between May and November last year, we've not been able to collect about 50 billion. July to November 30 billion, May to July, the remainder. So we are falling short of the targets. And that will create a deficit at the top there. And if you look at the budget policy statement, by the way, I was the vice chairman of finance and budget for the senator for three years. And also I served in the budget and the promotion committee in the National Assembly for another three years. So I have a very good grasp of the state of our economy, very clearly so. So if you look at it from that point of view, that means then, KRA will not be able to attain its second. And that means you have to revise the budget downwards. And so supplementary budgets have become like you are redoing the budget again, because we are living beyond our means. And we have to cut our clothes according to size. Okay. I would have loved us to talk about Manta's CBC, but I'm being directed that we are out of time. By the way, on a lighter note, do you feel like our friend, Meguna Meguna, is facing a media blackout? We've not heard from him for a very long time. No. I don't think so. He's back at home, and I was with him on Saturday. He's robust. The crowd was there. Oh, you were with him on Saturday? Yeah, he's around. Okay. He's ecstatic, and I think he's doing well. And he's very popular. I think if he ran for office in any of the Luwajianza prelaces, he would win, really. Right. And he's become a conscience of the nation in terms of standing up for what is right, and that he really helped us in the Kenya-Kwanzaa administration in terms of messaging. That's very on Twitter. Right. So Kudos, Meguna Meguna. I worked with him. He was an advisor. I was an advisor. So I have known him for quite some time. Right. And he's a very good prolific writer. Right. Yes. Right. As we exit, what are some of the expectations that you have for 2023? Maybe some of the initiatives you're working on in terms of leadership that you love the youth to plug in on or to keep watching you? I think 2023 is going to be a tough economic year. Let's not lie to one another. Things are going to be tough. The taxes are going to be higher, including the one that is in court about EMPESA to EMPESA charges, 20% excess duty and all of that. So let's brace ourselves for that. But it will ease out from 2024. For young people, do not sit back and wait to be given. Stand up for what is right. It may be difficult. Do not be disillusioned. The future is still bright. We can be able to create something out of ourselves. I mean, I believe and I know that when you have what it takes and you show it to the world, they will create a way. They may be resistance. But when I reflect my days as a youth, because I'm no longer a youth, I'm 40 years old now. Still young. I cannot claim to be youth. But I joined parliament at the age of 30 years old. So very young man. I joined Senate at the age of 35. So there's a lot and addressed the UN at the age of 26. Made my first million at the age of 26 as well. I mean bought my first car. There are so many things I was able to do as a young person. And I'm very proud of it. We went to some of the best universities in the world, in England, in South Africa, wherever. Travelled to over 45 countries. I mean, I know, and I'm standing here. I'm sitting here to tell you, don't go down and say that there's nothing to show for yourself. Keep on fighting when you are not able to stand for yourself. Remember, others have fought for this place and they have been able to make it. And as Martin Luther King, Jr. said, if you cannot fly, run. If you cannot run, walk. If you cannot walk, crawl. But whatever that you're doing, keep on moving forward. Thank you. Fantastic. I love that. Thank you so much. That is Honorable Maura Isaac Maigwa, or Honorable Isaac Maigwa Maura, if you want to. And he's also a disability advocate and a former nominated senator in Kenya, a senator representing Parsons with disability. He was also the first member of parliament in Kenya with albinism. Thank you so much for your time. And also nice to meet you in person. I've always read about you. Thank you. Being the first MP with albinism was my dream. It came to pass. It came to pass? You know, dreams are valid. In the realm of Lupita Nyong'o. Yeah, actually, we acted with him together. You acted with Lupita? Yeah, of course. I mean, I was 24, she was 23. I was acting as an aspiring politician. She's my friend, actually. Wow. Please tell how we said hi and we'd love to interview her as well. The father is my political mentor, Nyong'o. All right. Say hello. But thank you so much. That has been Honorable Maura Isaac Maigwa, talking to us about the state of the nation. By the way, you can also find him on social media, and that is on Instagram, as Maura.Isaac, I think. And then Maura Isaac Maigwa, on every and all other social media platforms. Personally, at Brian Sako 101 and at Y250 channel. That's where you can find us on all our social media platforms. We take a very short break. When we come back, we'll be continuing with the rest of the programming, so don't touch that dial.