 So as we're transitioning into the final panel, we're going to take a look at sort of the way Susie has prefaced it, a new avenue in which you can explore playwriting. Today we have Seth Hoderman moderating the panel, and we have three people representing two different groups of radio playwriting, and Seth, if you're the one who's going to play. Yeah, sure. Hi everybody. I'm Seth Hoderman. I'm the manager of online media at the Dramatist Guild. Next to me is Claudia Catania, who is the host and producer of Playing on Air, which I just have to tell you, I'm a huge fan, and I recently got into it and I put them up there on my iPod, and I was putting them on the way to work, so I'm a huge fan. And then we have Sheila Cowley, who is the, hold on, hold on, operations manager and writer and operations manager at WMNF in Tampa, and then Matt Cowley, who's a writer and sound designer at the Radio Theater Project and at Studio at 620. Okay, I was trying to look at my notes, I did okay. Can I open up with just a general, what drew you into wanting to produce Radio Place? I work in radio station. About 16 years ago, I started a radio theater troupe there, because I was a writer and didn't know any of the experience writing scripts, so I wasn't trying, and so we went to the Radio Theater Workshop, which is kind of a national audio theater festival, so I learned about that. Could you be able to tell us a little bit about the logistics of it? And I would just, I think I would just start by saying, you know, nobody's talking about slamming doors and never making a molly of anything, you know, this is all new work, it's modern, it's not recreations of nostalgic stuff, but it's all new writing, and, you know, it's relevant, it's not weird, it's just another mechanism. I think the genesis for me was a little different, and I think there's room for a huge amount of writing and playwriting to go on to radio stations and podcasts and streaming and what not, but my niche, what I do and what compelled me to do this was it bothered me that we live in a big nation and a vast majority of us do not know a thing about theater, you know, maybe they've been to their nephew's high school performance or an occasional outing, but for the most part I've done unscientific research and I've asked people if they can name a living playwright and maybe they'll come up with an Audi or a Kirchner, but maybe not, so this is appalling because we have a treasure, you know, treasure of playwrights and a nation that really doesn't understand very much about theater, so one day I was sitting at a reading in New York, you know, one of a multitude of readings and once again a bunch of actors and playwrights, you know, I blew my socks off and I thought why is it just eight of us unfolding chairs listening to this person blow our socks off, why not the nation, same amount of time, why not, so I decided there's a big waste, I don't like waste, I'm a version of waste and there's all that talent in New York, so I also thought if we could somehow, you know, create a platform that's essentially a stage as large their ways can go and as ubiquitous as the internet, maybe more Americans would start to understand what theater is about and as a result, patrons, you know, in terms of audience development, this might be a long-term way to gain support for theater as a whole, so it seemed the way to get into most people's lives was either through radio or the internet and the way to do it, at least in my estimation, was through the short-play genre because people are on the go and they're used to consuming those particular old and new forms of technology in short skirts, which is perfect for the short-play, whether it's, you know, six minutes or 26 minutes, it's still the amount of time they're used to consuming theater, music, discussions, whatever, on technology and it's a genre that I think is magnificent and has tremendous potential but is unexploited, so it seemed like a perfect, a perfect thing and given there's no money, there's no way you could really compete for anything but something languishing in somebody's hard drive or drawer and that's how it happened, so I just decided to do it and the first person I called was Chris Durang and he was really nice and he said yes and then Alexander I first said yes and it was enough yeses to put together a demo to take to a radio station and that's how the ball got rolling. So it's two different approaches. So it's very different. You're doing studio work that you're distributing, we're doing a lot of studio work and stuff that would distribute at other stations but we've been focusing on the ones that are just live performances. Could you both kind of talk about your process of producing because it is a little different. Can you talk about what goes in behind the scenes and how you put this all together? Sure, so what we do for the past five years part of this project is called the Radio Theater Project and it started out as a collaboration between an art space in St. Petersburg, a studio at 620, which is a great little incubator art space for all kinds of things and they said the answer is always yes, so there's theater and music and dance and anything else and our radio station WMNF which is a community listener supported kind of station and there's kind of a group of people there, we live in St. Pete so there's a lot of retirees and some of them in the community there have had long story theater careers for instance but are not acting actively anymore so this was a way for them to kind of create opportunities for themselves. So what we do is once a month for about six months out of the year we do a live show and it's usually three plays, two to three to four plays acting in front of the mics and then there's a table of sound effects and things and we have about a day's rehearsal, they do a read through and then we do a tech rehearsal in front of the mic with sound effects and then just put it up the next day so it's a very short commitment for the actors. I do a little bit of kind of pre-production sound effects stuff that weekend or whatever the weeks before. It's a Monday night so a lot of the actors are in current shows but you know the theaters are dark on Monday so we get really good actors who are free on that night. Okay. So we record those shows and then broadcast them later on the radio station. And we got a couple, the audience is built slowly but now it's kind of standing room only. It was helped a couple years ago when we got a grant from the Florida Humanities Council to always include a Florida writer and because of the grant it had to be free so a lot of people started coming but the last year we hadn't had the grant and it's just been like a donation at the door and it's done really, really well you know and it's gotten even more popular and I would just say you don't have to have a radio station. We have a radio station with a bunch of microphones on as you guys do. It's the kind of thing if you don't have a radio station you can still put work up with actors you know reading scripts on mic for an audience with sound effects. You can record it if you want or not. I mean there's a group in New York that sell out multiple key things of shows you know the same show multiple performances and they don't even try to record it. They're doing it just for the house audience and things changed for us because we first were doing it to focus on the recording and then we realized more people are in this theater that are probably listening to the show on the radio. The whole audience gives us the sound, the house sound and you know we're kind of, I know you have kind of selling sound effects and we kind of ramped up the sound effects and made it a little more prominent and I use manual sound effects. We started doing the radio theater in the studio so I did all those sound effects on the computer later kind of post-production sound kind of process thing but we discovered that people just love watching me go open and close doors and walk on things. That's crazy. As much of that stuff as I can do manually that's just part of the show now. I'm so glad you threw that in because I don't want to assume that everyone knows what a sound designer does but I mean if you can elaborate a little bit of your process and then we'll go into what playing on there is and how it's different. I just, I don't want to assume that everyone knows what it is. So the short answer is it's anything but the voices on a radio but you know on a film it's a whole different thing working with other stuff but for us it's just anything but the voices but the kind of slightly longer answers that the cool thing about radio for me is like I think Steve said yesterday that in a film if you have you know Poland 1945 it has to look like Poland 1945 but on stage you can put a sign and people will bite into it. On the radio you can say it's Poland 1945 and have a little bit of wind or you can say isn't the submarine great and have a little ping sound and in the listener's mind they will see the complete set you know they'll see DOS boot in front of them even though you haven't built it. So what I do kind of as a sound designer and fully guy thing is kind of just push them in that direction I give them just enough sounds other than the voices to say okay this is really where this is and crowns it a little bit so if they're in a diner I might cling some glasses so it just makes it feel a little bit more realistic if there's a fight you know I have a little leather jacket filled with pillows. Or if it's you know something that I can't do manually there might be a battle sound and that would be on the computer and it's just anything that pushes the audience to be their own cinematographer no way. I would just say as a corollary to that I know one thing Steve Yackey said yesterday I can never write for radio because my stuff is so visual but I think oh that's the huge freeing thing of radio because you can do stuff on the radio and create these visuals that you could never do on stage and that you know maybe you'll never get a chance to do on a television but you can really do it easily on the radio. I would just mention the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe. Which was this huge beautiful world on the radio and in a TV and film it was written originally for radio that's what it was created for and something like that you can do what if your famous first one was carnival in my pocket do that on stage you know you can do it on the radio. It's a lot of fun and I can attest to the entertainment value of that sound because I was at a table with him and he was doing the sound effects for and also what Michael was talking earlier today about animals and this and the other and it is true we did a war and light piece called the final interrogation of Hitchhiker's dog the Romanian dictator's dog and it has no played the dog and it was I think for the listener a lot more fun than because they could add their imagination and that happens in a lot of the plays someone mentioned Jackie Reingold earlier too and she has a wonderful urgent and lyrical delightful sensibility so she can write a play about a 12 foot guy sitting on an airplane next to a 2 inch lady and on the radio no problem Is there something that you that really attracts you to a script that you're like this will fit really well or this will not fit very well? I suppose since this is more about theater on the radio than radio plays per se I look for a well made play that would be the first thing that would attract me and I guess the last thing that would attract me too I mean it's basically that it's just a good play there are certain things that I know won't work even if I adore the play it is highly physical highly highly visual where it has an FCC infraction every second word you know those that could be problematic but little adjustments I've actually been quite amazed myself how little has to be done to a stage play to make it work on radio and quite wonderfully you know yes if there's you know 5 fuckings and 2 shits that's generally not a big deal it has a different way of dealing with it to a person they all said oh no no problem and they either cut it or they come up with something funnier or they just you know alright I can't say fuck I'll say screw I can't say shit I'll say crap you know whatever they decide to do it's usually quite inventive and easy and fast sometimes you know there's a missing visual you know just okay you have a gun? and you're done it's all settled almost always the playwrights on site so very often last minute you know they'll say oh no and they'll just rewrite a little something and it's wonderful to watch them work because they just make a slight adjustment and it just kind of reshapes the whole moment so we've been fortunate is there something that as writers is there something that you have in your head this is what we have to do I notice on your website that you accept submissions I guess you accept submissions too we both do but I notice that you have a list of like keep this in mind and that's a good point because we've had a different experience with the backing stage plans and some spectacular and infamous failures that live in people's terrifying embrace of stage plays a lot of stage plans that people didn't want to change anything it's where we've run into trouble because a lot of stage plays weren't fine on the radio it's all about dialogue and where we've had problems it was produced already it's a play it was produced it's fine just like it is and what we found is that it's a whole different medium and that's a really different approach that we differ a little bit from people of quality where she's putting a stage play on the air and what we try to do is make radio plays so that's a different medium and so when I'm writing for that what I try to do is take advantage of things that are specific to that medium so things that you can only do with sound or things that are enhanced things that have not worked have been things that are visual obviously or kind of you're asking a lot for people to kind of sit and listen for a long time so length is an issue and there has to be something really compelling so just like any other stage play story is key and it has to be there has to be enough action even if it's two guys talking in a bar it's an analogy there has to be something to keep the action going to keep them listening so things that I've tried to do are just anything that's there's an example I think of visually like in the silent movies there's scenes in like Charlie Chaplin where he's walking down a train track and there's a train behind him and he doesn't hear it because it's a silent movie and so he just keeps walking where there's a crowd behind him with signs and things because it's silent and you can do that kind of thing on the radio kind of in the interest you can trying to blink because people are staring at me but things that you don't see you can take advantage of the fact that you can't see it and kind of reveal it later or things like that things that only work because people can't actually see what's going on and it wasn't beautiful use of radio so I've written little sort of things like walking talkies or people talking to the phone or anything that's kind of a way that might not work on stage very well but works because it's a silent thing I think you asked about the mechanics and some of the simple mechanics are if you want to talk or they disappear you can't have people standing around in the background of a radio scene because they're just not there so there's the fewer people that are on the scene the easier it is on the listeners two or three, four people once you get beyond that it starts becoming a little chaotic for people listening and there's not as much of this if you're focusing on people watching but on the radio if it's truly on the radio there's only so many people you can tell work really at the same time which is the old kind of classic there's on the radio again there's an Irish guy, a Jewish guy, a German guy so you can tell they're at some point they're rushing again so you can do more energy casting actors from their tone of voice you can't have people that sound identical or it's like you've got the same person like you've got twins on screen no, no, no, no I find YouTube's very helpful because you can't quite remember an actor's register it refreshes your memory but I've made mistakes nonetheless one of the things it's really strange because it doesn't matter how old you are it doesn't matter what you look like you never get cast in that part eventually maybe because it all is what you sound like and so you can have some of these playing beautifully it's how they sound it doesn't matter how tall you are so actors for the role do you have questions? I'm curious in your situation if you mic your audience so that you're they become a part of that process and I think Sheila talked with Nan Barnett who had a brilliant idea they did some live stuff where they had the audience do some of the Foley effects which I think is great but we do have a house mic sitting up to catch the reactions and things because if you're listening to the live to the broadcast later of the live show that makes it just come to life a little bit later it clearly was a steal, Nan although one quick horror story a science fiction the science sci-fi channel used to do radio plays for a while on their website and they did a live show of dial-in for murder and another play and at the end of the other play I think it was they were in this field and this tension was just building and building was really scary and finally the guy at the end did end with the other guy with a shovel to the head basically right a big scene building up and building up and the Foley guy doing everything live has a big watermelon and the shovel to the head is boom I'm smashing a watermelon so if you're listening on the radio that's a really scary moment until the crowd in the theater sees basically galloping the crowd erupts and laughter oh that's terrible that's terrible yeah if any of you are in New York we've also started to do it occasionally in front of live audiences I don't know I don't think we have time but I did bring a sample if we do have time oh good I know for sure and I would say if you're doing it yourself actors are fantastic to work with there's basics of like stuff and we have an incredibly intricate handout that we neglected to print out that we can email people it has a lot of resources for people that are doing it live now like I wrote over there getting paid to write radio drama like 70,000 subscribers to your podcast the truth podcast I have to say it's called the truth if you divide that by 10,000 that's how many we have I think it's a there's a tremendous potential for the sort of work that we're doing and I think more and more people will do it because for a long time the glory days of radio were over and they were just vanquished by television and film but now everyone is constantly plugged in so there's a huge need to content so I do think there's potential there oh I have a question sure do you guys have to work with after or I work with SAG-AFTRA yet SAG-AFTRA and what about you guys we don't because we basically have no budget I'm not an expert on this stuff but we have a couple of SAG-AFTRA people and equity we've never had a problem our audience is small enough and the pay is low enough it's basically gas money so maybe that's what the cutoff is and they're reading too so many times if you're holding the script they only have to pay for transportation I guess that's a good point I should tell that to SAG-AFTRA equity exactly the type of question I was going to ask getting more toward whether you have any written agreements or licensing with the actors or with the playwrights to do this considering that I'm assuming it's recorded for maybe future re-broadcast what do you do about licensing your rights meet me? everybody in terms of the actors it's negotiated by the union and it's a favorite nation meaning everybody gets the same and the back end is the same and what's paid into health and retirement otherwise I think I would commit harukahari for a court so that's done and then it's just a question of whether the actor wants to do it for the writers it's essentially a favorite nation again I'm a one man man here and it is what it is there's a black fee there's a sharing and revenue we should be so lucky to think of other forms of revenue other than radio broadcast I thought going into this that there would be income of some support what are called carrying charges it's what the public radio state but when you're an independent radio producer and you're starting the program director the chairman of the oh yeah we'll air you but we won't pay you anything it's you have to wait do I want another 400,000 people or do I want 26 dollars you know so what are you going to do once you're successful it's a whole other thing for us what we do in the studio is typically stuff that we write and our actors are friends of ours basically and for the live shows we do take submissions and yeah there's an agreement with the writer and part of that agreement it's just understanding that it's going to be podcast and broadcast live and things like that and they get a small stipend some people that float from California to come to the show but the nice thing is that you know we're recording it for broadcasting so you actually get a permanent record of your play and a link on the website to the podcast that you can share with all your family and friends this is my play and this is what it sounds like for our actors it's mainly a core ensemble it's all we don't we're not blessed to live in New York for the most part our names are smaller not to comment on their talent but their names are not as big so they're mostly from our name so the contractual stuff is smaller and we're also under the umbrella of a couple of non-profit groups can't live both of you I think mentioned about length of piece what's the average length of the piece the average is between 10 and 20 minutes that doesn't mean there are an exception for us we found for the live shows we've done some that are like an hour and a half and those are really hard to keep an audience in place an ideal length for us is like two half hour plays and then a 10 minute play or something like that we've done it kind of depends on what your target is like there's a lot of people producing podcasts now which is great and so that's can be really variable if you're aiming for radio broadcast there are specific time links like you're shooting for 53 minutes to answer your I have to come in at a hard 53 minutes so that means if I'm going to have two interviews and three plays you have to when you start to program not only do you want it to be thematically some sort of thematic contextual sense but it also has to fit together in terms of minutes and then on top of that there's an episode intro and an episode credits and then there's a play intro and credits for each of the two or three little plays and then there's an interview after each of the two little plays and then there's music composed for each of the two or three little plays and then sound side what has worked also well for us has been playwrights who have taken full length plays and adapted them for radio into basically two half hour episodes that run on the intermission in between and some of the really great ones that we've done have been we did Marcus Gardner just this last year as part of the Rowling National career with the large of Rowling's civil run we have done the last two years adaptations of this that were condensed down and worked because of the whole full length stage but it was just too much for a radio audience but you can kind of get the essence of it I've also done a lot of really short plays on the radio like one to five minutes for a while I was doing one of those a week or two years which is a great it was a great practice for me and it's a great way to try out ideas and since it's radio you can kind of do everything yourself so it's a great way of just making an opportunity for yourself I would just say if you're doing it yourself and you're working with actors and actors are fantastic if they're stage actors you may have to told them down a little bit so they don't just blow you another name straight because the kid in the mic what they've done is people that will act with their whole bodies even though they're on microphone your body affects your voice and if somebody just stands there and talks to them like they've never moved it really affects their voice and they don't sound as alive as if really good voice actors can move and still not be off-mine and that's just something because you're working with people that keep in mind it's okay to move your voice and it's okay to vocalize too step out whatever because you can't, as you said you can't have those clauses or people think they've lost power so there's some kind of vocalization or sound effect to fill it in if you must have it but basically Claire it's been very good about letting it go and if there's time to shift gears there's a lot that can be done in court production even when it's recorded live if there are any other questions we're going to see a little bit about a little bit from each of these what they do do you want to start with maybe then there'll be some questions we'll do the video for you we're pulling it up right now take two couple minutes to go where is this video from? in March we did two evenings of three short plays each at a fantastic new facility in downtown Brooklyn called Brick, Brick Arts House it's just adjacent to Bam Harvey and they have an amazing black box with bleachers that come out a little U shaped balcony so if they really have received they can get 230 people in there but they were terrific it was terrific and we had a lot of fun so it's a long story why we did this is because we're on nobody's radar and a playwright said to me David Ives Claudia you're never going to raise any money if you don't raise your profile so he said call me and I did I called a meeting six playwrights showed up they concluded that we had to do something live so I said that's going to cost a lot of money and everybody just acted like they didn't hear um and I just put it together but they were right they were right because it has helped and I think we need to do it more so this is one of those two nights and then from the first night I was able to cobble together to make a show from the second night hopefully too and then I still have some extras because you always have hanging inventory sometimes it's there for these wonderful pieces could be stranded and orphaned for a year or two before you find an opportunity where they fit in thematically and in terms of the minutes are we good um making sure this is loud enough for you all to hear any questions just in terms of funding I think when we had a conversation at one point you guys have been able to get some funding from the state of Florida the humanities that was great right so yeah that was done through the studio 620 that art space and that was for two years and it was to fund plays either about Florida basically so they were preferably both and one thing that we found really works for us is locality so even after the grant as in we have this kind of running series where there's a continuing story each time that's really really hyperlocal it's based in that town and there's our co-writer our newspaper writer who's very funny but he also adds in a lot of political references to people and it's popular because people like to hear their town mention him have you experimented at all with times of day that you program your show and what is or isn't more or less successful we have no control over that well it's like you were like you know the program controls that and we've been on the digital side channel for a couple of years so most people are either listening to the podcast or they're at the event most people are not listening to the actual live broadcast but that's a good question the show used to be on the main broadcast channel on a Wednesday night or something and now it's basically a live cast we haven't really pursued promotion as aggressive as we should which means basically at all but it's difficult to listen to because it's a lot of shows or what get local pros can I ask so neither of these programs have been put out as paid podcasts this has all been a podcast for offered free online yes except I'm glad you brought this up because I'm you know not in my brains out trying to figure out how to bring in a trickle of revenue and the concept is to deliver theater to everybody for free and on demand so that will remain right over free streaming for free podcast a few at a time for free but it did occur to me that if we had a store where people could access shows that weren't available at that moment for free let's say there's five shows up for free or for some reason they wanted to download it I was thinking we should probably do that and I wanted to ask what you thought you would be a reasonable price hey because I'd like it to be inexpensive but also I'm going through the exact same thing because I'm working on an audio project and it's trying to figure out how to price it obviously there's nothing that would be at the store couldn't be somehow down for free but some people just convenience is worth paying our podcast the drama skill are all free I'm from the school that you don't pay for podcasts money shouldn't come from the listener it should come from sponsors I just came across a lot of research about the pricing of how you want to do that and how you want to sell it but there's even a few sites and I can't cite any of them but you can put your podcasts into it and you don't even have to edit they'll do all the editing and they'll cut into sponsors that they think are more suited for your program wow this is all via Google are we ready for the video? Matt are we good? most of you can always get it from here because it doesn't have all on the podcast all right well here is playing on hair can I pause that for a second? it's a good spot my sexy boombox my sexy boombox nice now this is a this is a this is a a sexy boombox are we good now? we should be okay is Connie up there? yeah Cliff she's here business excuse me man she's like yeah only not too good oh she said attractive today I was out in the patio thinking about how I'm almost 26 and I'm out of work and then I look up and I see these little underwears a woman rather I noticed Max looking at me the second day he moved in I knew his uncle next door a long time you ever noticed some girls I mean women's underwear how they got those little ribbons in the shape of a bow that's cute I'm kind of genius you know my mind started going and everybody celebrates someone when it's hot do not people sleep when it's hot you are people sleep my people would picnic and all that should have never followed you out here but yeah I didn't start the play thinking I was going to write a play about recovering addicts I was going to write about two damaged people that were desperately trying to connect in some way and so the fact that one of them happened to be an addict and her friends happened to be an addict that was just sort of the texture for the play but really it was about these two damaged people that shouldn't connect that were trying to desperately connect so Rosie do you think Connie will call Benny? yeah John you you often work in one person comedic shows that you've written like ghetto clown no freakers bigger than that can you talk a little about the attraction or the challenge of doing someone else's comedy yeah I mean doing my own one man shows is being up there alone it's a weird kind of lonely environment this is so much better it's so much better to have stuff to bounce off people and have them to share it's a much more groovy thing the one man show I just love I love the story time of a one man show more than anything but it's a lonely racket what made it especially fun Bobby you mean it looked like you were having a great time David's a really good playwright he's a crafty playwright I think the play sort of masters the form it's a short play and within a short play there are all these reveals and that's really what makes it fun you know going in it's a short play and you're kind of wondering where it's going to go and it's unpredictable and I think all the little doors that are open in the play make it for a fun experience and so I like that your expectations are kind of thrown off you think a lot of things are going to happen and the opposite happens you think they're going to maybe connect and they don't and that's why I like it and obviously the crowd it works all right by David Branziano right? yes it was yes we produced that play at Summer Shorts probably ten years now and we took it out into the school tour the high school tour and the kids loved that play they loved it so it's fun to see it like that the audience liked it a lot yeah um you guys have some I'll give it to you so I thought at this year's we could do kind of a live thing here absolutely give you a taste and I always think I've been incredibly intimidated to do that can you get your submarine so I just need right so I need for this one two actors if you have any volunteers one in the back get her get her she's good no pressure I think this is a good example of one of Matt's that he wrote that takes advantage of the fact that he can't see what's going on and I would certainly encourage everybody to write for radio and use it instead of constraint how could you take advantage of that because you can't really see what's going on so it can be terry or men which are not specific do we need one more actor one more actor come on up so you'll be terry and I will grab my extensive sound effects kit over here you can bring a door okay fully fully artist if you guys can hear okay we won't bother with microphones or anything it smells good sorry the only direction on video is the lab by solar oh might be the best direction you've ever been right it was make a mess for the the coldest I got the first line I know that one alright okay well this is cozy all tucked up like this yes shoulder to shoulder as it were it's actually fairly comfortable not bad I mean usually when I lie on my back like this it's really uncomfortable when I lower back this isn't bad at all that's good it's padded just right I think thoughtful of them yeah it's a pleasant sound if you close your eyes and listen it is kind of nice relaxing in its way exactly like listening to the ocean at night or rain on a roof a tin roof a great sound indeed what's that the Smithsonian it's great you should go you have a pendulum there this big weight on a long long rope in the middle of the building it's really amazing I don't remember what it was supposed to show you but it looks cool neat of course strictly speaking that's not a pendulum it said so I remember not the Smithsonian up there right a pendulum moves in a bit of a circle I think that's more straight back and forth true and of course the one at the Smithsonian doesn't have the big axe blade at the end I don't imagine I think it came to a point drew lines in the sand or something like ultimatums no, just circled the other one at DC wasn't slowly lowering down either it was just in one place and you didn't have to get tied to a bench to watch it that's an advantage not that I mind being this close to you of course not, nice of you to say not at all still, it'd be nice to be able to move a little escape if it came up of course what do you think will happen when that lowers all the way down well, it'll cut us right in two I should think that doesn't sound fun at all no that's the sort of thing that would kill a person I think that's the idea evil geniuses can really be fairly unpleasant of a Sunday afternoon to a spy at least still come with a job I suppose absolutely and it's been nice spending the afternoon tied up next to you you mean that? I do I've always felt like there's been a distance between us and I've never known how to cross it you wanted to? yes, I did I don't know what to say it took a mad genius to bring us together life is funny, isn't it isn't it just well I feel like I can die a happy man now thank you it's been a yes and you'll be around for the rest of the day thank you everybody thank you for the information this weekend which will go up on our website as well so that you can have some of the resources to link back to what we've been doing and also please feel free to email us you're going to be getting like surveys and stuff but we'd really like to know what has worked for you and what you'd like to see more of God forbid we do this again we may, we don't know but really this was great and Seth, thank you these new episodes and whatnot you can go to the site and put your name in the contact thing because it won't bother you other than that so we are we are here we are, okay be back here at 7.30 for cocktails and to start sort of chatting each other up a little bit and drinking so that we can start enjoying the finalist place that will be next and the other thing I will tell you is this because I think this might have gotten lost a little bit and we'll probably repeat it later but all of you who are at city rights with playwrights although our submission process begins August 30th through September 30th because you are here you can direct