 And I discovered that there's this thing called the training effect. And it's something I teach my clients what to expect down the road. So a lot of people think learning happens linearly. Like it's just a straight line up, you know? It's just there. That's how learning happens. This is time. This is improvement, right? That's never how it happens. It's a lot more like, let me see if I can draw something on here. It's more like this, or it'd be like this, right? So you're going up, but it's a zigzag line. So what's going to happen is you're going to, especially at the beginning, because you know nothing, you develop some knowledge and you see a lot of results. But then you hit a plateau. You're going to hit a plateau or you're going to hit a dip. And then a lot of guys, they just give up. You know, these are dabblers. They don't do anything, right? So the dabblers are like the people who go to the gym for a month and then quit. That's why January is so packed. So that's not like the dabbler. A lot of guys are dabblers. They think it's just a hobby. You know, I'm going to download this e-book and then everything's fixed. They don't realize the gravity of their situation. They don't realize that. Relationships are one is the most important, if not one of the top three most important areas of their lives and that nothing in society and nothing in their education has prepared them for this. So, you know, you can go to university and pay $50,000 a year to learn civil engineering or something, right? Or you can learn like how to code a computer, how to code a program. But you can't go there to learn how to develop people skills. I don't know a major research university that has a major in people skills or even emotional intelligence. Maybe they'll have one of those elective courses that everyone thinks is an easy A and it's going to be all like emotional intelligence or something, but no one, they don't respect it. And the rate of which society has changed has really forced us to be good at these things. Whereas back in like just even in the 1800s, people were in trades. You know, you had an apprenticeship, you were a blacksmith or whatever, right? You didn't need people skills so much because you were just apprenticing for somebody. And now everybody's like realizing that if you don't have people skills, you're not going to get anywhere in life except you hit a ceiling at the middle of the road, whatever, right? Middle in your company or something. You will hit a ceiling and you will be solidly stuck there. And the training effect is all about like the next guy up is the achiever. He hits that plateau, goes to that dip and he just works at it, works at it, works at it, works at it, struggles, struggles, struggles. And then he'll pop out of that dip or plateau and he'll get to the next level. And then he'll keep doing that. And his life kind of sucks. His life is a life of struggle. And I know tons of guys like that. Most of my friends growing up, the Asian American minority, they work really hard and they get results but they're fucking miserable and want to kill themselves at the end. What's interesting about this is like you bring that up with the Asian American and that's totally true. But dude, this is anybody that pushes themself. And in any form, like man, anything that I've done, I learned to work hard and be the best at. And then guess what happens in competitive, like let's say some sort of athletic event, you get injured. And the people who don't get injured or their bodies, for whatever genetic reasons or yada, yada, yada, you learn that's the right way. And you end up being 20, 22 years old and you're setting yourself up for damaging your body in seduction. And seduction actually is really where I shined. But that, like God, man, high level sexual activity. And I'd actually like to talk to you about this, especially with all the behavioral stuff. Dude, it damages you in very consistent ways that I see over and over again with pickup coaches. And it's kind of sad and disgusting that nobody talks about it because people don't realize, like the pickup industry might screw some people up because of misinformation and overselling and all this stuff. And that does suck and it's a real deal. The people that are successful in it, you don't know what you're walking into, man. You don't know what you're walking into in terms of relationships, in terms of different levels of addiction or whatever takes place. But that struggle and that fight and that need to be the best and kick ass, you do not see is the nature of man. It's not what we were meant to do. It's not what our emotions were meant to do. It wasn't what our sex was meant to do. It wasn't what anything was meant to do. It's a societal, it's a cultural thing that's taught and it's not even seen in all cultures. Anyway, keep going with your archetypes but it's like it isn't just with the Asian-American dudes. Man, we see that over and work harder. Be the best. Fight for it. Yeah, definitely. And it can't be sustained. Yeah, I take pride in my clientele. A lot of them are achievers. They'll reach out to me because they resonate with my background of this achieving background. So I know this problem really well. So I can tell them here. So basically the third level, the one that I try to give in the long-term program is that I need you to commit to this long-term growth because this will dissuade the dabblers and the guys who just want to dip their feet in but don't want to get serious about it. But then what it'll give me is it'll give me a time to show them what's coming next. So if I can tell them expect this plateau at time X or at phase Y, then when they hit the plateau, they're not going to get frustrated. Those who say, oh, I at the plateau. It's like a waypoint like they can rest, right? And they say, okay, now David says just implement this. So here's a great fitness program that I got a lot of value out of, P90X. It's kind of crazy but I mean, that was one of the first things I just cut my teeth on, it was great. And what it does is it works really hard. They work you really hard for three weeks. Then in the fourth week, there's a recovery week where you do yoga, you do some stretching stuff, you do calisthenics. And basically what it does is it builds into the program the plateau. Dude, let me just tell you- So if the guys understand what I'm saying to them- Yeah, go ahead. But I was just gonna say the yoga period in P90X is not fucking easy, man. Oh yeah, that's true, it's just different. It's just different. Yeah, it's a different kind of pain. It's a different kind of pain. But what it does is it changes up your workout so that if you just persisted with the same workout, you're getting great results for three weeks. Four or five weeks later, you're gonna plateau. And the guys who don't know that are gonna feel frustrated, they're gonna waste a lot of time and they might just give up. They may never make it out of that dip. So the long-term program is there for me to tell them here are four phases that you're gonna go through. Here's what to expect. When you master this, here's the next problem that comes up. Expect to have this problem. And then I try not to tell them too far ahead because then they'll think, oh, I'm better than I am. And they're not confronting their actual real issues. And it's great because the guys in the program see the beginners coming in and they can mentor them. And that helps them grow because if you really wanna learn something, you should teach it. And it's great because it just creates this great community that's very supportive. And everybody is knowing what's coming up next. There might be some frustration, but they can understand how it fits in to the whole progress map. And they feel like they're in control of the process. Welcome to the 21 Convention Podcast. I'm Steve Mayeda. I'm your host of today's episode. And today we have Dr. David Tien. Now not only is he an alumni speaker of the 21 Convention 2012 Melbourne, Australia. Check out his speech. Remember actually sitting in the audience and watching it and just going, man, I am loving this stuff. And just his way of coaching, his way of teaching, keep going with your archetypes. But it's like it isn't just with the Asian American dudes. Man, we see that work harder. Be the best. Fight for it. Yeah, definitely. And it can't be sustained. Yeah, I take pride in my clientele. A lot of them are achievers. They'll reach out to me because they resonate with my background of this achieving background. So I know this problem really well. So I can tell them you're, so basically the third level, the one that I try to give in the long-term program. That's man-made or cultural or being sold, but we don't look at everything. Social risks because they're coming from a society that got to this point gradually. They're able to navigate the waters a little better. And what I've discovered as well, just getting plugged in to pop media in America is that there's a serious confusion over what's the feminine role and the masculine role. And most women, so there was a period also, and I think it's still common, where men are in the sort of new age phase too. They don't know whether they should be, they're kind of confused. Should I be more like Justin Bieber or should I be more like the Orlando Bloom or should I be more like Hugh Jackman? They don't know, they don't know what masculinity is. They don't even wanna talk about it or think about it, except pure guys are watching, this is awesome. But we've tested as with masculinity, it's totally foreign concept to them because they do not think about it, generally speaking. Like the average guy. And this is mainly with Asian culture, this is everybody? No, it's definitely Asia, but I would say everybody. Every time I come back to America, I hear the same confusion. Now you see it in the States big time, you have to keep- Yeah, they don't know, should I hold the door open? Should, is that even a question I should be asking? You know, they don't know what masculinity feminine is anymore because there's this gender.