 Okay, I'm gonna record, okay, okay, record is on progress. Let's roll here at 13 half the hour. Thanks folks for sticking with us here on the 9th of March, 2023. We have Sherwood Moore, friend of the group here, Supply Chain and Trade Finance SIG, who is a leader for the Climate Action and Accounting SIG. And we've been talking with a little bit and we wanted to kind of catch up and see what they've been up to and have them share the evolution of climate accounting and the new measurement economy. That sounds very cool, Sherwood, the new measurement economy here. Yeah, thank you. Without, well, I guess before we get going, well, actually before we get going here, we've had some problems with the advice. If you have an old invite on your calendar, please delete it and go out and get the new one from the Hyperledger calendar since we had some challenges and that's why we're getting going a little bit late here with things and as always the Andrea puts out the new or puts out the invite link for Zoom, the correct one that we're gonna be using for the rest of the year here. And so that's the one that we're gonna always use. So with that, no further ado, Sherwood, we'll turn it over to you. She should be able to start sharing screen and take us through Sherwood while you're doing that. Are you okay with questions along the way or do you want to- Yes, in fact, I would prefer to have questions along the way in particular also with the presentation. This is kind of a newer version. So if there are any kind of questions about the presentation, please let me know. Good. Yeah, I'd like to make this a dialogue conversation. Great, so go right ahead, Sherwood. Okay, I'm just trying to do a little slide show action, okay. So yeah, so I changed the title on here actually just before I got on the call. But this is going, essentially what I'm gonna do is introduce the work we've been doing around distributed climate accounting. But I'm gonna kick that off by describing what we are or sharing what we're describing is the measurement economy. And the reason I want to do that is because essentially the climate accounting solution that we're talking about is something that offers a new level of granularity to corporate emissions data. And in general, corporations are reticent to share that information. So the reason I want to kick this off with the measurement economy is because this has kind of prelude to why companies are going to be interested in kind of sharing very accurate climate data with kind of publicly. So without further ado, hopping into it. So right now corporations are primarily reporting because they're required to. There are different regulations out there that are asking companies to report their carbon emissions. And so they're doing it in kind of annual reporting. And I'll kind of share some different reasons why it's not super accurate. We are seeing indicators that that is going to have to change and this is the reason why. It's because emissions data is currently and we think increasingly going to be affecting corporate bottom lines, affecting their profitability. And so that's going to get their attention. That's going to require accurate climate data in real time. So what are the building? We described this as the measurement economy, the measurement of carbon emissions. And there are four different kind of pillars of the measurement economy. The first one is government regulation. This is happening in the European Union right now. There's kind of a pilot called the carbon border adjustment mechanism, which is effectively providing a tax on carbon for about five different goods that are being imported into the European Union. It's like concrete, steel, aluminum, fertilizer, very high carbon emissions activity products. And so to quantify that, that particular, so this was my backup. So this is affecting the operating expenses of these organizations and we expect this to be rolled out because the European, Europe is generally about significantly ahead of the rest of the world as far as kind of climate action. And they are kind of consistently the pattern setters. And so the government regulation for this one particular, these five particular industries in the European Union that's going to be the equivalent of about $8 billion by 2030. So it's quite significant when you consider this is just for five different industries. The next one is sustainable finance. So there are finance vehicles like sustainability linked loans and bonds, for example, but there's a whole kind of ecosystem of sustainable finance that is emerging. It is offering preferential rates of 5%, sometimes even up to 10% to corporations that are reducing their carbon footprint. This is a significant amount of savings on the cost of capital. And the size of this marketplace, we estimate this to be about $22 trillion is estimated that will be injected into the green finance market by 2031. That's a massive amount of capital. Can I ask you a question? There's a little bit on the 5% to 10%. Is that the actual rate or is that a reduction in the rates? That's a, a loan at 5%. 5% reduced by 50 basis points or something like that. Yeah. My understanding is that that is, this is numbers that I got from one of my colleagues. This is the reduction on different interest rates. And so that's obviously going to depend on, you know, a broad range of kind of financing. I need to kind of ask him where he got this number. I've seen up to 8% reduction, just kind of on some superficial digging. It's a good question. And that number, this sounds more weird. 80%, I'll tell you from my point of view. So 5% to 10% reduction. Yeah, but I need to kind of verify that number. No worries, thanks. Yeah, yeah. Good point though. Thanks for pointing that out because that's going to make me get on the ball on that one. The other piece is demand for low-carbon products and services. So we've seen this beginning to set price premiums, market share, and also even creating new product categories. So what I point to is the electric vehicle market is an entire marketplace developed around people interested in low emissions. That's the $208 billion market. The last is the financial marketplace is pricing environmental risk into investment opportunities, right? So this is impacting core evaluation. And to provide an example of the magnitude of this injection, $130 trillion in investment capital has been earmarked to investing corporations committed to achieving net zero. This is just by the UN Glasgow Financial Alliance. They made that announcement at COP26. So there's a lot of investment dollars, specifically earmarked to looking to investing corporations. It's been committed to investing corporations that are moving to work towards achieving net zero, which obviously affects demand for that stock, but it affects evaluation for that stock. And also the valuation is impacted by the fact that we're talking about these government regulations, sustainable finance, demand for low carbon product. This is operating expenses, this is cost of capital, this is revenue. So this is what a CEO is looking at the corporate strategy. These are the things that they're looking at. And so we're seeing these indicators coming down the pipeline. And this is kind of what we describe as a measurement economy. And this is why we think climate data is so important because to survive and thrive in the future, corporations are going to, the corporations that learn how to turn their climate data from what now is perceived to be a liability into an asset are the ones that are going to be able to thrive. And how do you turn it into an asset? Well, you begin decarbonizing, you capture that data, you use that data to develop competitive advantage by having decreased operating expenses, having larger market share, higher market valuation, being able to kind of raise lower cost of capital, beat out your competition. So what we're focused on the MO for this decentralized climate accounting platform that we're developing is essentially to create an efficient marketplace for this data. We need to be able to share that data between corporations and these different stakeholders. To do that, any efficient marketplace requires the three things, accessible data, low cost data, trusted data. And blockchain is perfectly well suited for this particular use case. So we're focused on using blockchain to deliver an interoperable layer of emissions data across supply chains and connecting them with market stakeholders. Providing for low cost data, providing transparency into how emissions data is calculated and how it flows through supply chains and digitizing the process of measuring, reporting, and verifying. The last piece is trusted data. So if we can decrease, I'm sorry, these two things are mixed up. Essentially with the trusted data, if we can provide transparency into how this information is being captured, we can provide trust in the data. I'm seeing the hands great. OK, so now when we're looking at the marketplace right now and to the right, this is a real supply chain for the development of photovoltaic solar cells. The chat, we currently are looking at an inefficient marketplace. There are a lot of barriers up, and that's why climate data isn't really being able to be used as a corporate strategy quite yet. And this is because there's low data access. Corporate reporting is being done in silos. It's housed in centralized databases. It's generally being reported at the corporate level. And it's locked in annual reports. So there's no kind of inability to have a centralized database of information to work from. Data cost is high because it's manually being measured, reporting verified, and a lot of most often in each emissions event or each kind of corporate report has to be analyzed amongst a sea of reports. So each one of these little dots in the supply chain is potentially developing their own emissions report, and they're kind of sharing it up the line. But there's no ability to really kind of have real time of shared access into all the data. And the last piece is there's low trust. And the data is trusted because it's easy to manipulate. And that's because we have fragmented standards and we have a lot of lack of primary data. And so corporations are gaming the system to benefit themselves, not pointing any fingers. This is what they're designed to do. How you develop trust is transparency to how that information is kind of captured. And then the standards and the approach to kind of calculating carbon emissions, that's how you develop trust. You have transparency. And I don't know if this is a question for you. Sure, one of the challenges I have, and maybe this comes a little bit later, it's not quite this, but it feels like there's millions. Maybe there's probably not millions, but maybe thousands of different pieces of software out there or different attempts to capture carbon emissions. Yeah. Yeah, I went to Caterra and I saw it. I don't know what to do here. So if you could speak to that, that would be helpful. How do you sort the wheat from the chaff? Why do we need another one? You know, that kind of stuff. Yeah, let me speak to that right now, actually. Because I would love to kind of hear your feedback on this. I find that to be absolutely overwhelming and it gives me anxiety every time I try to kind of do like a competitive analysis. What I will say- I'm not alone here is what you're saying. No, it's awful. And you can only imagine every single different node in the supply chain being, if you're like a materials provider and you're supplying 10 different industries with a hundred different vendors or people you're supplying in each industry and each one of them has a different system that they're asking you to use, I mean, it must drive them crazy. You know, so what we're trying to do is essentially build an open source solution that can reach scale by allowing everybody to kind of build, you know, open the solution collectively and build whatever kind of components they want and have the solution be set up so that we can capture data from any number of existing solution providers out there and just kind of bring it together in a centralized place that's open, right? So the way that we're different is that all of these solutions are kind of walled gardens and they're running on basically SaaS business models which generally don't cooperate with kind of their competitors, right? So they don't really want to share information. So that's, but the value, the value in the environmental data is the ability to share it, right? So that's a kind of a key need that these different vertical solutions aren't really kind of set up to solve for us. I'm just curious, on the fragmentation, GS1 has done pilots with IBM and SAP, FoodLogic and RIPE.io. I've also seen other pilots in Europe. I know OriginTrail has done a lot of interoperability of data, supply chain management data. Do you know if any of those interoperability pilots have included climate data? I don't. And you've really piqued my interest, Alicia. Thank you for sharing that. I would be very interested in kind of in finding that out. There's a lot, I mean, you bring up a good point too, like there's a lot going on and it's difficult to kind of keep your arms around everything, but I think that's, that'd be a really interesting thing to explore. Do you have any visibility? Could you remind me later, I can reach out to OriginTrail to see if they've done any climate data. Yes. Just remind me later. Thank you. Yes. Alicia, this is Jeff. I was just wondering, do you, on that interoperability analysis, that include functionality descriptions of these other solutions? What's the functionality that they have? What, especially on the data collection, I've got experience in, vast experience with the oil industry around reforming gas in the US and Europe. And there's a reason why, well, company that I work for built an in-house solution and never touched on all the marketing ones that were out there and had to do around data collection and enable the trader, the trading desk then, to have verified data and get out there and do trades certain times when the data was more, credits more valuable than others. And I was just wondering, like Sherwood is saying, like the two bullet items there, we found that to be huge. And I was in, I forget the call on Tuesday where I asked a question to the, who was it Sherwood where I said, I see your system, it's all great. How do you collect the data? Is the data often be pre-prepared by spreadsheets, by some internal systems and get it all prepared and then feed it? Or can you collect raw data and have smart contracts or blockchain functionality? Not only put an identifier on it so that it's locked by an entity, but also can compute that for you and get and meet these two items on there. That's where I was wondering if you had any info around the studies that they did. What's the functionalities of their systems that are out there? My experience has been over the years as they're all very poor on the front end. Not the user front end, the data collection end. They're poor. That's a really good question. I'm not remembering the details that were shared with me. Last year, the year before last, I believe, Raja Ramachandran from ripe.io spoke, I think it was to the social impact sig about a project that they were doing. But I think at some point I've also seen him talk and I think it was during that about a little bit about the interoperability pilots that they were part of with SAP and IBM Food Trust for GS1. What does interoperability mean in that context? I mean, with other systems? Well, others have been called different companies who are working with the producers, the Fisher people, the logistics companies. So in this case, they were moving the data between different SaaS platforms. Oh, I see, okay. Yeah. Well, I worked for BP for decades and I'll just say that because of the Sin House system we had and we were able to manage the data flow into it, we'd kill for a blockchain solution back then. That was the only way I could sell millions of dollars of credits in the open market because the way we brought data in and the trading desk, get the data right away, it was verified right away and no systems could do this. And so this data piece I always looked at is huge. Anyway, millions of dollars of credits were sold by BP. Southern world companies. Sure, that's easy. So they didn't give me any of it. You need to negotiate a cut next time. That's a big bonus. Anyway, Sherwood, you were talking about interoperability. I wanna make sure that we get as much from you as we can with your time here. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I have too much more to share there, you know, with the solution that I'm gonna share with you, there's a couple of different things that are out there. Like the interwork alliance is in the process of developing a standard for emissions profile, kind of net emissions token. So it's a token around, yeah, standards around how to kind of develop tokens around emissions. I think that'll probably, if a standard like that is picked up, that will really significantly help the interoperability. Yeah, ultimately, I think what I'm gonna kind of share is the kind of solution to this challenge. It's the tokenization of emissions data in a standardized way. And that if you're able to kind of follow a standard, which thankfully there are no standards yet for emissions tokenization. So hopefully the one that the IAWA is putting out is promoted enough so that nobody tries to develop two or three or four of them. But that would significantly help with the interoperability. And Sherwood, I guess one thing that Jeff said, where he said the challenge where he worked was on the data collection end. Do you see that as a broad based kind of issue that the whole data collection issue is still maybe more manual than sensor-based out there? Yeah, I mean, so this is kind of coming back to the point that was the point of this whole solution. I think that I think that data needs to be collected by each individual company in the supply chain that they're responsible for. And if the measurement economy is essentially providing financial benefit to having accurate data and that is the case, the market forces will kind of drive just like the market forces drive different companies to try to find ways to cut costs. It'll also drive them to figure out ways to cut costs in improving, in capturing data, but also improving the quality of that data. And I think that's the real secret to this. Essentially, when I'm kind of describing the measurement economy, what I'm describing is, instead of price pressures on cost, you have the same kind of market forces that are focused on the carbon cost. And that goes all the way down the supply chain to the measurement reporting and verification. But in a very, due to the nature of supply chains and the complexity of supply chains, I think it needs to be decentralized in order for it to be decentralized and still be trusted, there needs to be transparency. Okay, good, thank you. While we go along to the next slide. Sure, moving on to the next slide. So very quickly, and I'll kind of describe some of these things, but what we're trying to do is provide high data access by converting the supply chain into a decentralized, using the decentralized ledger technology, blockchain technology to create that underlying shared database for information to be kind of shared and stored. We want to lower data cost by, essentially allowing these financial pressures to encourage ways to lower cost. And you can lower cost by digitizing the process of measuring, reporting and verification. Some of our solution kind of help with that, but other sensor technologies will also kind of help with that. And also lower data cost by decreasing the cost of obviously sharing information. If all that information is shared in one layer that you can have access to and kind of slice and dice the data however you want, that's significantly more cost effective than having to request, you know, a hundred different suppliers to share their emissions data and then analyze it. How else am I to analyze that, right? That's expensive for every company on the planet. The last piece is low data trust. Again, trust to transparency. If we can show how that information was measured, reported and verified, the standards that it used, that I think is the first step towards this level, this idea of interoperability because you can at least, even if you have data using different standards, you can at least kind of understand that and begin to kind of navigate how to solve for that. I'm not gonna go through like the basics of how the technology works and what we're using. This is the solution that we've built so far. There are kind of three major components of it. One is a net emissions token network. And this is essentially just an open source tool that calculates the emissions profile and it can do it at the company facility or product level. But essentially you are creating the profile through tokenized emissions. You have an emissions debt token, which represents the emissions debt that's incurred through the activity. It emits the greenhouse gas. There's also an emissions credit token, which can be used as an offset of the debt that might remove the emissions from the atmosphere. So, we all know what that is. So the general idea is this, you have companies that are obviously buying, they're emitting, they have emissions, they also are taking actions to offset those emissions. If we're gonna work at the product level, this allows them to basically apply those two to kind of create a profile for their net emissions impact, which can then be added to the product as it kind of goes through the supply chain and each individual organization adds their own to create the overall net emissions profile. I've got another visual that will hopefully kind of share that and make it a little bit more clear. We also have an emissions data channel. So this is, it's an open source tool to aggregate and verify emissions data that's used to mint the tokens on the emissions network. We also have, excuse me, secure identifier solutions. This is for identity and credential management for all the different stakeholders on the platform as part of the supply chain. So everybody knows who's who and everybody has kind of clear identity and kind of permissions. Does that all make sense? I mean, that's... I get the token idea. I guess the question I would have if you go to the top there. Basically, instead of collecting individualized or discrete data, you're allowing you to create yourself a profile that says, hey, at a product level, we have this kind of emissions associated with it. This kind of might take away from what that first line says. Yeah, so I need to improve this here, but the general idea is, I mean, what I really want to do is, so essentially the emissions activity will probably following IWA standards, it'll be the green token will represent a certain amount of emissions for an action, right? And that emissions can be assigned to a product, right? So by combining the two, you create the emissions profile right here in the middle, which has two emissions tokens and one offset token here. And those, what I'm trying to share, so this middle piece right here is this token right here and each customer is kind of adding on their own impact to that particular product. This is not a good visual. Let me just be upfront about that, like I'm working on it. I understand it's work in progress, no worries. Yeah, yeah. I'm just trying to figure out the old garbage in, garbage out, where's the data coming from on the emissions and how does that jump? Yeah, right? Is it, somebody just pronouncing, hey, I know this and you're kind of trusting them or it was an audit or something. It's a problem everywhere. So it's not just, this isn't just emissions. Yeah, I mean, so we're trying to solve that just through transparency, right? So this is at a high level what we're trying to accomplish. The data pulling, the emissions channel network is simply, it provides a space for them to kind of provide the data related to their emissions. Now that data can either already be verified or it can just be measured and reported and it can be verified on the platform, right? Once you have verified emissions, that emissions can be added to the, that's added to the emissions profile, which then can, this is what provides kind of that interoperable layer of information that kind of flows through tier three, two, tier one through the value chain. And that's really the slide that I'm gonna build is showing how these tokens follow a product through the different tiers. But the idea is that if you have calculated your emissions based on, essentially based on each activity and you're kind of adding it and allowing that to kind of be tracked altogether on this database, you can use that data however you want. Again, you can use it to calculate at the product level, at the facility level, at the company level, but it's from the bottom up. And the value of that is that you're able to provide this environmental data to these different stakeholders that I mentioned for whatever needs they have. So in the green finance market, access to data is kind of the primary barrier for all these, all this investment dollars that are sitting on the sidelines and it's a huge cost impediment, right? And so having a solution like this really lowers that the cost of borrowing cost and kind of opens up the ability to kind of bring financing to the carbonization activities in kind of a much more liquid way. That's just one example for green finance, but it's early days, so what we built is a skeleton and it's open source. So what we're trying to do is, some of the questions you're asking, we've only have to figure it out, but we have the infrastructure in place. Yeah, I'm just, what the state of the art is right now, because I mean, I can tell you what the state of the art is right now. The state of the art, the state of the art is, a lot of these accounting, these emissions or these scope three emissions platforms, they're essentially SaaS platforms and they are, everybody in your supply chain signs up for it and you upload your documents and your data to this closed network and the guy at the very top who's demanding the emissions data is able to calculate it. And so what you end up with is a million PDFs and that's not the future. So all these different climate accounting solutions that you're seeing that are functioning like that, like it's just, once there's real dollars behind this environmental of data, like I don't, they're gonna shut down because companies are gonna be saying, look, we can't have, investors are gonna say, we can't have 100,000 PDFs. We need to have access to the data. We need to see it real time. If you want access to kind of capital. And so, I think that there's a shift that needs to happen in the marketplace but the challenge is that companies currently aren't comfortable sharing emissions data in a very public way and they're not going to until there's real money attached to it, right? Until their corporate profitability is affected by their emissions data and their ability to get that data out to the right people to allow those people to kind of have, easy access to it, be able to use it how they need it. So we're kind of, but it's a chicken and the egg, right? Because you need to have a system like this in order to allow these different forces to work. So this is very, you know, the emission space we're working through. All two you can continue on since we have 13 minutes left here. Okay, so very quickly, yeah. So we last year, we won the call just for some kind of, you know, you know, pat ourselves in the back. We, you know, we won the Hyperledger Foundation award last year, I forget the exact name of it. We also won the IBM call for code green practices accelerator. We've got, you know, some interesting research going on around kind of this measurement economy space. But what we're really looking for right now is, we need corporate partners. We need, you know, and so I'm kind of, and actually Jeff is helping with this kind of working on evangelizing, this idea and trying to kind of bring more corporate partners to the table. And so I'm in the process of really kind of, really it's almost kind of like presenting what we're doing, but also informational interviews. I'm kind of trying to find out where they are and what the challenges they're looking at. And if anything that we're doing is lines up with, you know, what they're doing and if they have, you know, innovation people that want to kind of play around and explore things, like that's kind of the stage that we're at. It's a really interesting stage. And so I wanted, that's part of the reason I wanted to engage with you guys, you know, because we're all part, you know, of this, you know, same network, you know, the tool that we built as your tool. And so I kind of wanted to kind of engage with you guys to see how we might start engaging with some supply chain folks and start having some conversations and start exploring the space. Because I think, you know, we're, I think we're ahead of, I mean, it's good to be ahead of the game a little bit, but it's also going to be challenging, right? So we, you know, and it's not a huge, it engages in different companies. It's not like we're asking them to buy anything. At the most, if they're interested, we're asking them to kind of devote resources to kind of exploring how they can use it, right? So it's not a real high barrier to entry. So I kind of wanted to kind of touch base with you guys just to hear your thoughts on anybody that, you know, or how, you know, if you're interested or if you know of anybody that might be kind of interested in kind of discussing this stuff. So, Shobhi has a question here and he has to leave now. Shobhi, I don't know if you want to mention real fast what you got here. Or she'll believe, I'm not sure. Oh, no. So looks, I'll read it here for you. Sure. What we are looking at is supply chain, product on blockchain and it's running in Germany. They want to expand it to US and the real challenges set up a database for US should be specific to US region only. So it sounds like there's some data, data protection standard stuff. So that's going into this. Oh, right. And in database of blockchains, we had our setup node in the US but regulatory is not accepting because they mentioned block data. Gene data is encrypted. It does not work for layman language or verification. And so he's interested or Shobhi's interested in what are you looking to do in such a situation? So the real challenge I'm just setting up on the data is for US region only and that is regulatory is not accepting because they mentioned blockchain data is encrypted and doesn't work for layman's language or verification. I'm not sure that I understand the question. Yeah. It didn't. I think I'll just. We'll have to get you linked up or we can look like this. Yeah. Linked in there? Yeah. So be calm. Let me see if I can reach out to him on LinkedIn. Okay. Good. Yeah, when I just, when I read that it sounds like somebody doesn't understand blockchain. Yeah. The regulatory body doesn't understand blockchain data. Blockchain data is encrypted. Okay. Well, it's easy to encrypt it with the keys. I don't know what they're saying. Yeah. Something something doesn't. They're saying it is encrypted. Yeah. Blockchain data is encrypted. It doesn't work for layman language or verification. I don't know what layman language means but verification you're gonna unlock with the keys obviously. Yeah. I mean, I don't, yeah. That's what I don't understand. I'll have to reach out to, to. We'll be, yeah. Okay. See if I can get some clarification. Good. Okay. Well, why don't we leave that one off the side? Folks around. A couple of questions that we have for Sherwood here and Sherwood, you know, it sounds like you're called action here. Next steps is kind of similar to what our group is. Finding corporate partners, finding folks who would be willing to help take this to the next level is what you're saying. Yes. Is that what we're all looking for? Yes. We all want to create, we want to allocate a more successful ecosystem that uses blockchain, right? In some form. So let me stop there and let's see what the rest of the folks have to say. Yeah. Sherwood, I'm wondering, have you looked at or spoken with anyone at provenance.org, Jesse Bakershop on London? No, I'm not even telling you. They've been around since at least 2019, 18 and their formation was really around verifying companies, climate claims and labor claims, or organic fair trade, et cetera. And I just took a quick look at their website and it says that they're verifying client carbon data. Okay. I'll put a link in the chat, but they might be somewhere to, they might be a company that would be useful for you to talk to or. Very interesting. Thank you for that. I'll do that at least. You're welcome. Excuse me. We need you to get this cold to just won't quit. Okay. Anybody else thoughts? Not only about my hands, this is Jeff again, is I'm like, I actually look at the Providence site, but one of the things around scope three emissions, which is the emissions of the product you're producing is, is how can like, I'll call it Sherwood solution. But what we're looking at here is how to get the auditors out of it. That's expensive. The auditing. And get them out of the middle with smart contracts that are immutable. Then once that form is computed, once what the carbon emissions are, then you need an auditor anymore. I'll go back to the gasoline picture is every gallon of gasoline in the United States and Western Europe has to have measured properties before it's shipped through the pipeline system. Every gallon, they don't measure, they do a big batch of 70,000, 80,000 perils of fuel, but that's stored in silo databases. And let's say Exxon BP had one sort of shell, but the stuff is stored and then it's shipped to the EPA. Well, in the law, auditors have to come in once a year in the UK and then every five years and they audit all your data. Like if they look through your database and so forth. Now, I'll admit we changed things. And the auditors came in, they're going to get a sample out of the data. That is expensive. But if there's, they don't have a carbon profile on gasoline or jet fuel or diesel, you could easily do it because they do profiles on the other. So with all the pollutants that go in the air, you have something that would store it in the blockchain today. It's immutable. So now with a smart contract, you throw the auditors out. The auditors are expensive. These people are there at your site for a month every year. They don't charge $15 an hour either. And can this solution assure which one get rid of the auditors also? I'm not sure. I mean, for some components, I think, yes or some no. I mean, we can like, I don't know about the auditors, we get verification in certain ways. Like if you can verify something just by looking at the data or looking at reporting that's been put out. Like the value of this is essentially you're providing the all the information involved with measurement reporting. And so if you have, if you can do that off on the screen, one thing you can do is essentially what we discussed is creating a DAO where you have auditors competing to audit. So you can bring down the market costs there. There might also be some AI applications for that. But yeah, I mean, I think that for some components, it seems like that could be a possibility. Good. Okay. Thanks Sherwin for sharing your thoughts here on the new measurement economy here. We're at the top of the hour. We'll post this session on YouTube here with the help of this at Hyperledger. So that'll be out there. Sherwin, I think if you want to put in the chat, your email or just mention it, boy, you'd be a voice recording. Absolutely, let me, I'll go ahead and share it. And Sherwin, can you share the deck with us as well? Absolutely, let me actually just, I can actually share both into the chat really quickly. Okay, good. One moment. So here is the deck and I'm in the process of updating it, but y'all can watch that progress. Okay, where's the chat? I'm just sorry. I know you guys, I need to do this really quickly. Chat, there it is. Okay, here. Here is the deck and here is, oh, whoops, to everyone. Ask me a direct message to everyone there. Okay. Okay. Is it a deck? Got it, thank you. Beautiful. Yeah, absolutely. And Sherwin, if you could get back to Shelby, if you can't figure out who Shelby is, let us know and then we'll help you figure that out. Absolutely, I'll do that. Thanks for having me, everybody. Great speaking with you. Absolutely, it's great stuff. It's great you got code here, that's wonderful. You know, that always is half the battle. Like you said, you know, you got a lot of the chicken and egg here and you're working on the chicken portion of it. So that's good. Yeah, yeah. All right, yeah, it's by Sherwin. Thanks for talking to me. We'll talk to you in a couple of weeks. Enjoy your life and supply chain and trade finance and climate action in the new measurement economy. Bye. Absolutely. At the beginning of the meeting, you were talking about, you were going to discuss something about upcoming work or picking a project or something. I think we'll save that for maybe the next time. Oh, okay. Yeah, the idea of it, because I'd like to close it here on time for our bikes. I know everyone has to move on, but, and Jeff, I'm happy to give you a holler flying here. I just meet you at Starbucks. Yeah, that sounds good. Okay, well, maybe we can, well, I don't know, I'll give you a holler and we'll figure that out. Okay. Yeah, you this time closer to you. Yeah, that sounds good. Okay, thanks everybody. Enjoy the rest of the day. Thanks Sherwin. Bye. Thank you. Bye everyone.