 of you as tomorrow starts today super glad to have you all hanging out with us on your Sunday January 28th or I don't know it might even be Monday for you at this point if it is I'm very sorry but we're glad to have you aboard my name is Jared I'm gonna be your host today also got Ryan all the way over there as I point completely in the wrong direction doing my best Jamie impression yeah sorry me in the head man yeah sorry about that and then also of course you've got Dada in the middle calling the shots with everything and we've got saying hello to some of you all this morning we got Roger checking in and saying hello you've got Tommy checking in and saying hello nerds and we've got Damian also checking in from Clifton Ireland so top of the evening to you I don't know if that's how that works in Ireland but you can you can correct us in the comments we're used to that kind of stuff but I figure we might as well go towards very close to an area that Damian is where Ryan is in this place called England so Ryan we're sure that you've got quite a lot to tell us about today what have you got for us to get started with on tomorrow today well if we're saving the bet well it's not really the best is it the we're gonna save ingenuity to last right yes make sure everyone understands what's happening because that's how YouTube attention works so you stick around to the end basically all I've got to talk about is that the the facilities in Starbase look practically the same as they did last week which might not sound that interesting but it's a good sign because in the background that means that SpaceX is working ham at getting everything ready for flight three of Starship which fingers crossed should only be two to three weeks away we've seen ship 28 doing some wandering about in the production site moving from one of the high base to the rocket garden it's just kind of sat there at the moment booster 10 is getting a little bit of work done on it as well and also looking ahead we've seen booster 12 getting some work done on it booster 13 getting some work done on it and we also have ship shuffles happening all the time it's getting so hard that even NSF our most informed writers are getting the ships mixed up because there's so much stuff going on at the moment at Starbase so even though the launch site looks empty like it has done since November 18th last year there is SpaceX actually doing a really really good job at making sure that all of the kinks and upgrades and everything is all sorted until or for the next flight which as I just said should fingers crossed becoming in just a little bit of time here so yeah it's not the kind of manic mayhem that there is usually before flight two before flight one but it's kind of coordinated progress towards what will hopefully be a successful flight three excellent so slowly but surely that progress is being made and of course all of us here tomorrow hoping for a successful flight three it would be great to you know they were so close to making it to orbit on flight to just seconds away from it before the the rupture so man I'm really really hoping that they get it this time because we we need a W right now besides you know the it feels like the last W that we had for the Artemis program was Artemis one itself and then we've been you know watching Starship which is going to be a part of the human landing system go through its growing pains and then with the clips program the commercial lunar payload services with Perrigan we're off to a rocky start it's just we we could really use a little bit of the good news right now with with the way everything's been this is it's been a rough start to the year so I'm really hoping really hoping that things go go well what the world needs now is launch sweet launch I mean we did get a little bit of that from from Vulcan right Vulcan worked perfectly but but yeah that's I don't want to say that's like the only successful thing that's happened so far this year because India you know they got their solar emission where it needs to be an L1 and they're they're sort of they're getting ready to do it a test flight of their crude vehicle so it's just this is I mean we've got a lot on the horizon that's very exciting it's just it seems like he's first this first month has been you know we got Vulcan but it's a little rough well what was it was a launch what was the launch of SpaceX recently did where they posted the video the fairing returning from space oh I'm not sure they post videos yeah they posted the videos I didn't realize that they still posted videos I don't know I I saw a video I it wasn't I don't even think it was on I think it was on Facebook actually just gorgeous gorgeous footage of looking from the nose of a fairing to the app and watching the the plasma plume swirl around it was just if that's the video I'm thinking of then I think that was like officially released like a couple years ago oh okay let me see yeah let's take a gander at it because I mean let's just look at it anyhow because pretty so yeah that is looking right there oh come on yeah yeah that was the hottest and fastest we've ever attempted but it's also I believe it's also been superseded by who was it or is or is this the one from last year with with it was via sat whichever one fully expended so I can't remember there's been there's been so many Falcon heavy launches I don't know which is not which is not something we used to save before last year so not not hearing you John that's really that's really cool I still love it look at the look at the dynamics of that also this is okay so Sakura is confirming that this is the via sat Falcon heavy launch gotcha look at that Mach 15 not even Maverick moves that fast so there was actually an interesting kind of little tidbit that was released maybe should I say by William Gerstemeier in the Cygnus NG 20 resupply press conference the other day and so if you're unaware Falcon 9 this Tuesday now is going to be launching Cygnus for the first time which usually launches on Antares apart from when Antares isn't available when in the past it's launched on Atlas now it's launching on Falcon because Atlas being tied blah blah blah blah anyway they're launching on Falcon and Cygnus's contract with NASA requires them to have late-low capability so they can put things like live animals like mice on board of Cygnus and it is not put on their like weeks in advance it's put on their hours before launch and because of that SpaceX have had to develop a fancy door in the fairing so it's about one and a half to 1.2 meters so SpaceX has gone out of their way to develop a door for their fairing for their competitors commercial resupply vehicle which I think is just another prime example of how SpaceX doesn't really care about having competitors they'll just do whatever their customer wants them to do because they've launched countless one-web satellites they're now developing custom fairings for Northrop Grumman I mean this company clearly just you know they know they're not going to be beaten or that that's what they believe so they're just helping everybody along the way which I think is fantastic think about it if you're if you're if your competitor is asking you for launch services that's that's something that they obviously can't do on their own yeah so so if they're paying you for launch services you're reusing the booster you're using an existing infrastructure and it's aside from you know labor costs and a little bit of fuel it's all profit yeah and I do I do want to I don't want to be the downer here that I often am on the show but here I go which is that one of the best things that I ever said to me is that you're only good until you're not so just I always try to temper expectations and other things like that because they're you are great until you have that one slip up that causes it but also I do want to say that holy smokes that isn't that is an amazing thing where they were literally just like you know what sure we'll put it open a door in the fairing sure you need it how Northrop week we got you we got you Northrop you're good so how hard can it be yeah how hard can it be can't be that difficult can it so yeah JTTV is actually asking a really good question here even though dream chasers can be flying on Vulcan the dream chaser use the same door and JTTV I don't know if you're asking about dream chaser flying on like Falcon what would dream chaser have to fly on would it be able to fly on a Falcon 9 or would it have to fly on a heavy so I'm not sure but it's a Crew Dragon because Falcon 9 can comfortably take Crew Dragon to the ISS yeah let me I was about to say I will look that up to figure that out so you're gonna hear me typing very loudly here I don't have I don't have the numbers in front of me I'm not one I'm not sure if dream chaser would fit in the fairing of a Falcon 9 but even if it did I would imagine that Cygnus and Dream Chaser have their access hatches in different locations on the vehicle one being a tube the other being a space plane so I would imagine that hatch locations would be to need to be different perhaps but I'm not an expert on Falcon 9 fairing yeah yeah I was gonna say I don't know if I don't know many people who are experts outside of those who work at those who work at SpaceX and I don't want to necessarily say they're not talking but you know they're not exactly nobody is exactly saying a lot with that there so yeah pretty cool I so I can't I can't find an official wait but I can say that in order to meet the commercial resupply services to conditions the guidelines for it dream chaser did have to fit within a five meter payload fairing so take that take that as you are with it there so I'm seeing a lot I mean I'm seeing I'm seeing a lot of imagery that has dream chaser crew dream dream chaser without a fairing stacked on top yes that was that was that was sort of the original idea of a crewed dream chaser but now we're in cargo dream chaser so which they they have said it should be easy to turn it into a crew dream chaser I know I easy and turn it into in the world in the world of spaceflight is typically not used you just you just put some oxygen candles in it and you're fine so yeah I do it at home all the time I just open up I open a door and I get more oxygen immediately so how hard can it be right look if you could pull the door off of a plane and get a nice breeze inside of it anyways I should I'm gonna stop right there before I do it that's those are those are an engineers for favorite words it's easy you just yeah tell me about it well this could be fine on Vulcan Centaur to give you some idea I'm not sure which variant of Vulcan Centaur it's flying on simply because I have just like it's so heads down unfortunately okay it's going on the VC4L so we're going so we're gonna have four solids on it there yeah I'm going to fairing so according to Sakura the max payload for Falcon 9 is 22 ton to what orbit is this 22 tons to what orbit and dream chaser is nine tons so dream chaser is nine tons but you also have to remember that it's going to be carrying more than just itself it's gonna have the shooting star cargo attachment on it as well which that alone is going to have oh my gosh I'm on the order I want to say five tons of cargo capability just by itself with with the shooting star module that still doesn't seem like it exceeds 22 that still doesn't seem like it exceeds 22 yeah and I was gonna say then it's just a matter of the physical space being able to fit inside of the fairing yeah and I was gonna say I just looked up Vulcan Centaur and what VC4 can lock then that can do about just a little under 25 tons to low earth orbit so yeah it'd be pretty cool I you know I just want to say this which I think is this is really really cool sorry my dog was like she had something to add she actually just reminded me that it that a lot of things like sickness are designed to be launcher what's called launcher agnostic which basically means that they don't necessarily have to watch it on an Antares they've watched it on an Atlas 5 and now they're launching it on a Falcon 9 which I think that that is a fantastic way to design your vehicle why make it something that can just stay on your stick let's stick let's put it on everybody's stick and see how it does with it there that you know he's up crazy Jared sorry well somebody's got a phrase that here and I'll absolutely take the blame for it but I just think that's so cool that like this is a cargo vehicle that has that is now going to have road three different types of launch vehicles in order to do its job how awesome is that in the space industry that's damn near universal you know not it doesn't feel like it's been universal for for commercial cargo and especially for commercial crew it just feels very awesome that they actually are doing it because they could design it to do it but there's a difference between designing it to do it and then actually going out there and doing it and Northrop Grumman has been very much pushing very hard to make themselves a leader in space flight since since the purchasing of orbital sciences and other stuff like that orbital sciences and space division of Northrop Grumman innovation more words so yeah and as JTTV is pointing out as well Starliner is actually launcher agnostic in case you wanted to know so if you wanted to you could potentially stick Starliner on something if you feel like it oh and you know Jack Barnett's bringing up a really good point too which it's actually four different ones because we've had two different versions eventaries and we're about to have a third version eventaries come out with the new engines from Firefly Aerospace being used for the first stage because the Russian invasion of the Ukraine has caused them to lose access to those first stages other than Tari's typically flew on so yeah holy moly this is actually a really cool mission coming up and I'm just excited because I mean like hey it's really it's really cool right like I just I think the sickness to me just looks the part of like a cargo spacecraft you know like it's a very it it's very sci-fi looking to me and I think it's just really it just looks really cool so especially now that they're flying the enhanced versions that are much bigger than the original version so yeah I'm super I'm super excited to see yeah there's actually shows that there is more space in the Falcon 9 fairing so when sickness grows by another segment theoretically that could fit in the fairing of a Falcon 9 as well yeah why don't we why doesn't SpaceX just throw some starlings in there how hard could it be it's easy just yeah air spikes actually bring up a really good point in the engineering aspect of things which is that when your biggest constraint is NASA it's easier to be larger agnostic but the size the volume is more limiting with things you know that was sort of the issue with the with the j-dub which wasn't necessarily the mass but it was the fact that it was just so damn big that they ended up having to fly it on the aria on five because that was only fairing that had enough volume to actually fit it which then added on some very interesting constraints right because then you've got to deal with the vibration of solids and other things like that so yeah and satellite origami yes and 300 plus individual points of failure and and several small heart attacks over the course of a January and early 2022 but also as I will just always remind people it works to shut up so and it's working brilliantly so you can also shut up so yeah well it won I just gonna say it won the Collier trophy so that's of course that's like the big award in aerospace so which we will talk about something that one also won the Collier trophy a little bit later as well so yeah very very cool and then it's a girl what are you showing down there you show is that the is that the dream chaser I can't I can't see that graphic it's really really tiny on my screen unfortunately cargo dream chaser with a second stage inside of an atlas with five solids yes because they were going to fly it on atlas five but I believe that is not the case anymore I believe the Vulcan five huh it's it's like somebody did a bulk purchase on those I have no idea who could have done that so I at least I hope Jeff got a discount for that so do you think if you buy 12 to throw in a 13 for free so next time if we get Tori back on the show I will ask him personally if we buy 12 Vulcans will we get can we get the 13th at a discount so of course I don't I don't know I don't think we're I don't think it's like an airplane we're not wet leasing a rocket so I don't think we can do that so JTTV I like that would they want Starlink on a international space station orbit I don't think so no I was just I was being a smarty pants this morning with it by the way SpaceX please launch the Starlink from from Vandenberg on time tonight I want to see it it would be nice to have a Vandenberg launch actually go when it's supposed to after this last one that got scrubbed like what five times or something yeah it was a lot ish times and then on the final attempt when it did actually launch the webcast died because you know Twitter live streaming is fantastic and only regained at T plus two and a half minutes so you know good job like I gotta admit that I was I was thinking about it last night and I realized that when I go and I film SpaceX launches with my Canon t2i which is 14 years old when I film it and I put it on YouTube I'm providing a view of the launch at a higher quality than SpaceX does now so yes so yeah I guess if you like using Twitter to watch stuff you can but it's I feel bad because it just doesn't look good on there of the of the 30 to 45 seconds I've watched of one where before I went this is garbage turned it off and then just went to watch NASA spaceflight do a fantastic job of covering them so to be fair have you have you watched one recently I I watched the one that happened the first one from Vandenberg this year but it was on my phone because I was I was out filming it and I wanted to make sure that I had you know everything good to go on there so I was watching it just to me I typically will have the stream open when I'm filming them just because I want to make sure that launch actually happen and they tend to have the least amount of delay with that there so even on my phone it didn't look great I would say it was maybe 720 but like compared to what it used compared to what it was on YouTube just is that your band or theirs and then it will drop out to 480 and then pop back up to 720 so I don't know so yeah but is it I don't know yeah so minor space X's you do you do need to give them a fair shake and things do change and do evolve so they they may be improving but I agree that that their initials were rubbish potato I can first impressions or everything sorry so I don't I don't know I don't know to say outside of that other than also it's on Twitter which is not somewhere I want to watch video at as well so yeah yeah it's not a platform designed for video sorry I'm just gonna say it so yeah that's my take and you can't convince me otherwise so show me show me someone who's had a successful video career simply relying on Twitter and I I think that list is probably going to be short if that is a list so but also I feel like this is much more a members show discussion so and I feel like this will also be something that I will be slammed into the ground and and demolished by Jamie will just come in and and and have 10 to 20 talking points that will absolutely obliterate me and I will be banished shadow realm with my opinion on video anyways we love you we love you Jamie you're you're amazing as always so now that we've now we've had a hell of a tangent with that there what is secure what do you have what is that is that Vandy that being in Berg it looks like Vandenberg on that they're a map of Vandenberg at least yeah so that's that's slick too which is where Firefly launches from nowadays yeah that's where arguably the one of the greatest rockets of all time the Delta 2 launched from so yeah very cool very cool indeed all right so should we you guys want to talk about one one thing before we get into our our sort of you know goodbye to our dear friend and this was something that I have been wanting to talk about for like almost a month now if y'all don't mind which is that I don't think y'all heard of this mission called Juno it's out at Jupiter right now and it's it's doing an incredible mission we're learning a lot about Jupiter from it and it's recently been flying by Jupiter's Jupiter's moons because it's changing its orbit to kind of set itself up to dispose of itself at some point next year it's that it's run through its extended mission we're starting to see some of the instruments on Juno reaching a point where they're they're getting fried enough by Jupiter's radiation belts that it ain't it ain't looking pretty anymore Juno does these incredible close-ups of Jupiter's atmosphere and I mean we're coming down to like gosh 5,000 kilometers above Jupiter's cloud tops that is so that is absurdly close that is threading a needle through a needle in order to do something like that and as a part of this extended mission they have been having Juno use Jupiter's moons as gravitational assists to help sort of tighten up its orbit bringing in to orbits a bit more often and we end up seeing you know views of those moons and it flew by I know one of my personal favorite moons in the solar system and it has returned some credible images of Io and I'm gonna go ahead and let you take a look at that there and just be absolutely blown away by what Io looks like with it right there so thank you Gander is not amazing so and I'll zoom it in a little bit here too so you can kind of get the detail of Io coming through there but yeah Io is amazing because it is close enough to Jupiter that the gravitational pull of Jupiter stretches and squeezes Io a tremendous amount which causes the interior of Io to essentially remain molten so Io is the most volcanically active place in our solar system is more active than Earth there are in excess of 20 active volcanoes at any given time on the surface of Io and in fact just recently there was some enhanced imagery that was pulled out of the data that Juno here took and they were able to see that that sort of up in this area right here up towards the North Pole there is a active plume from a volcano that was erupting at that moment spewing it out spewing up material somewhere on your over about 30 to 40 kilometers above the surface of Io here they are the volcanoes they are huge they're potent and Io is just a nasty place just covered in sulfur sulfur dioxide be bombarded by the rate that radiation belt of Jupiter contributing a little bit to it as well it's volcanic eruptions with the sulfur man it is just it's just a hellish world but dang it's it's pretty and we haven't had imagery this good since the Galileo mission in the 9 in the 90s and early aughts so one of the things that they have been doing is they're taking the imagery from Juno and they're going to be comparing it to the imagery that Galileo took to see what are the geological changes that have happened since then because even though it's only been 20 years which is sort of not even not even a blink of an eye in geological terms that's it's I don't even see came and really quantify that in terms of a of a time period in geology it's it's almost it's still with it there yeah with some magic some magic sound that but yeah it's seen big geological changes over something like 20 years the absolutely astounding but that's what they're looking at with that there so that's cool wow isn't that a great image so I absolutely love that and my favorite my favorite thing about these images that the Juno mission puts out there is that they are publicly the images are posted publicly you are allowed to grab the raw data and they encourage you to play around with it and send it into them and just kind of do what you want with it I've seen people who have taken so that was the official one from Juno I've seen people who have taken more of the images and stack them and able to pull greater resolution out of it there so are those are those just our RGB captures or do they are they capturing any infrared or other wavelengths those are RGB on there and then those are also true color as well so a lot of people a lot of people the images that are put out there are color enhanced you could understand it a little bit better so yeah arrow spike is saying at least the image on Wikipedia made it look yellow or yeah like images of Jupiter also make it look significantly more spectacular than it actually is I could find a quick one from Juno to show you what Jupiter actually looks like it is it turns out it is not as it is not as spectacular as it is even the ones that you see coming out of NASA are frequently colored hands you know they always show that one of the South Pole of Jupiter with its with its storms there and it's like it goes from like this like beige ish to blue and like no that is that is that's not that's not at all what it actually looks like it's very I don't want to see I want to call it lackluster because it's still absolutely gorgeous but it is just it is not at all what you are going to be expecting it to look like because of that so so I'm I'm waffling here a little bit because I want to make sure that I can I can show you all with this that's right we're always here yeah no it's all right I under I understand that you all are just kind of taking our time with this here this is just obviously a lot of imagery to pull from so I have to I have to kind of figure out what I want what I want to have aero spike says the next thing you're gonna say is that your urines isn't blue oh don't even get started on that one that way I don't I don't care what anybody says that's far that's far enough out in the solar system that I just don't care anymore at that point so who you how dare you acute how dare you accuse me of being a Pluto hater I have planet Pluto hater I have been pro Pluto so much you have no idea how pro Pluto I am about all these things you don't you don't you don't you did you you're wrong so I have to say about that is you are wrong I am so for Pluto that I you I will fight people who say that Pluto is not a planet so mostly because I've seen it almost happen all right here you go here's Jupiter how Jupiter actually looks you can see again particularly lackluster in what it actually looks like so it is isn't the those those belts of clouds and stuff that you see that most people consider to be absolutely spectacular yeah it's a lot of it's been color-advanced unfortunately because I would bring out the detail better I would best describe this photo as a dirty computer case from 1983 yeah actually you know I don't think you're wrong about that at all it sure does it sure does look not like like Jupiter I will say that it's just like a lot of people look at it and they go really that's it this Jupiter this is a good so and I mean I it looks it looks just like Jupiter to me through a telescope so I don't know what the big deal is but also I've been like looking at this stuff for like over a decade stuff like your stuff so yeah yeah actually we're still we're very game over we're still trying to figure out what took that chunk out of Jupiter there it's just a it's just absolutely massive that's the thing I don't know there might be a whole bunch of oh my god why am I forgetting it now there might be a whole bunch of monoliths that's what it is so and they're multiplying there's so many of them and I'm telling you forbidden things so yeah so of course remember everybody everywhere else is yours except for Europa it's have no landing there so that's the rules of the solar system so but that's not going to stop us we're we're gonna go land on Europe at some point so but that is a bridge that will be coming yeah aero spike right there thank you very much just confirming what we were all thinking monoliths or galactus as well for all of our our comics friends out there at our same the simulation takes time to load wait just give it give it a minute we'll load Jupiter fully for you there I don't I don't know who's running the simulation I would like to speak with the simulations manager so all right so we're gonna we're gonna head on forward a little bit here what have we got Ryan are we are we jumping back to you on this one well we're getting to the last part of the show so I I'm expecting everybody knows by now that unfortunately a good friend on the Martian surface ingenuity has damaged one of its rotor blades upon landing from flight number 72 and because of that JPL will no longer attempt to fly the helicopter anymore because apparently more than 25% of this specific blade is missing and now this is the only photo and you could see that there's a term in this just from the shadow of one of the rotor blades on the surface so yeah and this is the only photo of a rotor blade that they've shared so far I believe which means that more rotor blades could be damaged if we think there's there's two blades and then another set of blades on top of that so there's four blades in particular and this is just one of those blades so yeah it's it's certainly not a it's certainly not the site that we wanted to see however as everyone's been saying it is incredibly important to note that this was Flight 72 of 5 so ingenuity has flown 14.4 times more flights than designed it's a technology demonstrator and the fact that 72 flights were even achievable on Mars remotely is absolutely mind-blowing so this is certainly it's certainly a bit of sweet ending we don't want ingenuity to kind of go out this way but the achievements that have been surpassed on this mission by ingenuity it's just you know it's the first powered flight on a world other than our own there is no bigger feat than that I don't think and it's proven that for future Martian missions helicopters and drones and things like that are 100% possible as a point of curiosity if I were JPL I would want I would see if I could give program ingenuity to give each motor a short pulse to rotate the each blade 180 degrees and take the same picture and see if they could get a consensus on what those shadows look like from each of the balls no that is nothing that JPL is actually has already done or will be doing oh sweet that the data either hasn't been shared to the public or they don't have the data yet it's I know that process has happened or will be happening I just you know the the the last like official update we had was a was a teleconference on Thursday night I think yeah and I was gonna say there's actually some interesting stuff that people have pointed out which is that in the imagery after flight 71 and before flight 72 on some of the images that were taken of the blades were very some of the shadows on those blades were very inconsistent with what had been seen before again so it wasn't you know people are kind of asking as to whether something happened during flight 71 that may have actually damaged the blades as opposed to a hard landing on flight 72 now it's because we don't know if it's entirely like shadows playing tricks on us here or things like that but it definitely that like does not look like a good rotor blade if you ask me I'm wondering whether that could be the solar panel because the solar panel is a rectangle that sits on top of both of the rotor blades so I wonder if that's just shadow trickery the shadow of one of the blades and the shadow of the solar panel are kind of like stacked on top of each other like this and then it's kind of shining a shadow like a 45-degree angle kind of thing perhaps that would make sense and then this terrain that that this happened on with ingenuity was noted for being particularly flat which flat on Mars still means that it's probably sort of what we would consider an undulating sand and that would make sense as to why the shadow would have that little like curve on the rotor there then it may it may be a dip in or a rise in the regolith of Mars there that would cause that so but I just thought it was interesting enough to just bring that up and see if maybe with it what's going on with it but of course JPL will ultimately give us a really good good report on it with it there so yeah somebody in our chat room was asking how yes Graham W was asking I wonder how fast ingenuity would fly in Earth's atmosphere and I can tell you that it did move at 10 meters per second roughly 22 miles per hour at its fastest during in flight in the Martian atmosphere and it was basically optimized for the Martian atmosphere so I don't I don't know how fast it would fly here on Earth it would be extremely OP on Earth let's just put it that way because when you design a helicopter to fly in a 1% atmosphere and then take it to 100% atmosphere you know that's a that's a huge difference in air density that doesn't translate exactly the way you think it's going to you the blade is over geared for the motor so you would be drawing more current than you could provide to the motors in order to be able to spin that blade enough to be able to get vertical thrust so it just it just wouldn't it wouldn't work it's not compatible you have to you have to gear the motor and the blade together for the conditions in which you're flying yeah and you got to remember too that those those blade tips are moving at an incredible RPM about 2,300 RPM when they're flying they're approaching supersonic speeds and that is like absurd with what's there so yeah that is that is really difficult to design something to to work with that so yeah it's again ingenuity was just a whole bunch of absurdities and I absolutely love every second of it and Frank's got a really good idea which is that let's send in another drone to check it out that's very very true I quite like that one and then aero spike is also saying that I'm so looking forward to ingenuity's successors and frankly I am too because ingenuity is opened up the doors for missions that beforehand were just sort of in the in truly in the realm of science fiction where people were just entirely disinterested in it you know it's almost like when that that announcement about the gas and Venus's atmosphere happened all of a sudden everybody cared about Venus and now all of a sudden everybody cares about exploring Mars via via air and in basically aircraft in some sort of way it's not that nobody's ever thought about it there's been plenty of proposals for aircraft in the atmosphere of Mars it's just that nobody's really actually pursued it simply because it's always been considered something so far out of the realm of possibility and I do want to say too I found this really interesting which is that when I was researching this last night just to make sure we're talking about ingenuity correctly and everything there was a tremendous amount of opposition from the perseverance team to having ingenuity there in the first place they said that ingenuity was going to be a waste of time it was just going to slow things down it wasn't going to help out the rover it was just a toy this was just a pet project that somebody's trying to get money to do like this was stupid we don't want it this is this is just completely it's the antithesis of this mission it's going to ruin stuff for us it's mass that we don't need it's a waste but then it turns out that a lot of these criticisms that were levied against ingenuity turned out to be incorrect it actually did keep up one of the things they said is it's just not going to keep up with perseverance it's not going to be able to fly like the rover is just going to outpace it well ingenuity has been able to keep up with perseverance like it didn't follow perseverance's path exactly so it's a little part where perseverance makes a big U but ingenuity just flies right across terrain that perseverance couldn't do or yeah perseverance couldn't do but it's just it's incredible to me that that that it was so there's such a massive amount of opposition to the existence of ingenuity that it was nearly to some people on the perseverance team it was almost offensive to have it there but then it proved it's worth and it turned everybody's opinions around about about aircraft and rotorcraft on Mars and now you know it's now they are literally thinking that okay maybe we're not going to do rovers or maybe we're gonna do rotorcraft so like we're done with wheels so roads where we're going we don't need roads you know situation going on here they're now saying that for Mars sample return if it happens that they're no longer going to have fetch rovers they're going to have fetch help rotorcraft to go out and grab the samples and fly them back to wherever they need to whatever is going to take them off of the surface of Mars they're already talking about making a massive version of ingenuity something with like 8 to 10 rotor rotor blades to fly with something like a 50 to 100 kilogram payload on board like they are like go big or go home baby so and and and I also wanted to say that there was a really cool mission proposal that under NASA's advanced studies that they're actually getting funding for since it's something that is in the future but they're looking at it on and it is such a cool one it's called Mars aerial and ground global intelligent Explorer or Maggie I'm sure that was a back that's not a back of me at all and it is a vertical takeoff vertical landing electric powered aircraft for for use on Mars and basically they're talking about flying this and then basically those wings rotate to the vertical and come down like a helicopter and land it and then it does its science wherever it needs to be at and then it flips its wings back up and turns them around and then it flies elsewhere as you can see it's just got solar panels all over the top of it to power it and yeah what a really cool thing the ingenuity is done it's you know I think the aerospace earlier said that this is like the sojourner mission where we realized that oh what if we put the instrumentation on a plot on a mobile platform why do we have to stay in the same place to study something let's drive it around and see what happens now we're at the point of why do we have the instrumentation on on a platform that drives and is limited by the surface why don't we just put it on a on an aerial platform and we could go wherever the hell we want amazing that that's exactly what happened with this so enough I've brought up the map here from JPL so you can kind of see the yellow line is the flight path that ingenuity has taken and then the kind of white you like gray line is the path that perseverance has taken and you can see how the helicopter has been kind of following the rover since deploy but later on if I zoom in here you can see how it has been getting ahead and going over from this 2d image terrain that looks like it would be unfavorable to a rover like these looks pretty kind of intense and dunes here so yeah that's hop skibbity do over in front of the road that's go ahead that is certainly in I'm sure in the engineers eyes of JPL horrendously unfavorable terrain for a rover to drive on the last thing that they're gonna want to do is have it attempt to hit dunes like that it's it's it's it's a tremendous risk so so that's right it's not it's not just a Cybertruck that would have a problem with it but an actual rover on the surface of Mars would have a problem with it too so there's all there's also a risk to vehicles like ingenuity air powered vehicles or air flight vehicles with sandstorms and high winds that which they also have on Mars the wind I don't I don't think it's a one or the other like I don't think one is is inherently better than the other an air powered via or air flying vehicle obviously allows you to go farther and track more distance but there's also risk in being tipped over damaged by a storm or damaged by a windstorm or sandstorms so I don't think it makes sense to just go oh well now the helicopter worked we're just gonna do flying vehicles that doesn't that doesn't track to me yeah I feel like the winds on Mars are so the winds on Mars are a bit faster in terms of velocity than you would get here on earth but in terms of force because the atmosphere is only one hundredth density of what you have here on earth it is if it's sitting there I don't think it's gonna end up doing as much as say it would here on earth I would find it very hard to find wind tipping a rover something like ingenuity over at any point a sandstorm yes you don't want to find one of those if it's if it's motive and control surfaces are geared towards the atmosphere there then any winds in that atmosphere can adversely affect its ability to stay upright or stay controlled and I mean I would hope that they would have some sort of portion of their design or software that can help compensate for that I actually don't know about ingenuity if there was anything involved in terms of wind and turbulence mitigation with that there so yeah that's really okay Ray I mistakenly said air sorry we mean I mean it's atmosphere I would call air on Mars as well so Ray says when did they discover air on Mars well yes sorry not air atmosphere thank you thank you to our most pedantic audience today here is your award for that look we'll crowd here is your award for the biggest pedants most pedantic comment of the day with that where you win no points may God have mercy on your soul anyway in case anyone seen that movie I did like to people saying too that maybe we could use big flyers for for the lava tubes and other things like that on Mars I think that's gonna be a little difficult for caves and things like that just because the first of all even here on earth the aerodynamics of helicopters and their blades and how they operate is unbelievably complex and still difficult to understand even when you simulate it on some of the most potent stuff that you can nowadays there's a lot like I don't want to call it unknown there's a lot going on it's hard the basic the basic principles are understood but the like precision that you can find in a lot of other areas of aerospace is absolutely not there without the helicopters of rotorcraft at all so yeah so I don't know I don't know if they would have something flying go in to the lava tubes but yeah we'll have to we'll have to see with I don't know so JPL maybe like oh yeah we could we could design it to fly into the lava tube so I think they'll ever do you think they'll ever not do sky cream if you can figure out how to get a bigger payload to the surface but also I don't know that would I think that would require just straight up retro propulsion so it's something like a starship kind of retro propulsion so so yeah yeah that's a good point to battery longevity you also gonna have issues with battery longevity and flying vehicles that won't exist for ground vehicles very very true so so yeah what's bigger thermonuclear radiation generators yeah just how hard can it be right it's easy right it's exactly and I do want to remind everybody that we actually do have a full-sized rotor craft getting ready for a NASA mission called dragonfly which is going to be going to Saturn's moon Titan it is the size of a car and data as you just mentioned a nuclear battery to power it this one will have a radio thermal isotope generator powering and it is expected to do multi-kilometer long flights with there and in this it is so cool in the skids of it is where the instrumentation is so so it so when it lands it just samples the surface it's landed on through it landing here in a sense so and I think that's just so cool it's like it's like a fly it tastes with its feet exactly and and Titan is really great you could do that at Titan very easily because Titans atmosphere is thicker than Earth's atmosphere is and the gravity is so low on Titan that you also it's just significantly lower than you've got here on Earth the thickness of Titans atmosphere and the gravity of Titan is so low that with those two combined if you could build some wings that you could actually put on your arms you have enough power in your arms to actually take off like you could fly in the atmosphere yourself of Titan if you make wings that are big enough and light enough you could you could pull it up so and I think that sounds like a ton of fun if you ask me so I would I would love to give that a shot with that cool so do we have anything else so I know we had a slim which sort of tipped over a little bit unfortunately I don't know if we have that ready to ready to go quickly for the members show okay we're gonna talk about it in the members show okay there's some of the images that we got back from that are absolutely astounding a scene of spacecraft sitting on its head I guess on another on another body so yeah pretty fantastic we'll talk about that if you would like to become a member you could actually go to youtube.com slash TMRO slash join right now and join and become a member and get into the members only show that we're about to do right after we wrap this one up in just a few minutes like instant access to that so of course we also do want to thank our members of tomorrow as well hi Jamie that's right so if you as I just mentioned would like to become a member of tomorrow we've got different levels you get different things at different levels our escape velocity members here for example they get access to a exclusive channel in the tomorrow discord where you can see us talking back and forth to each other you like you got to see a little bit of put the viewer with us this past week you got to see a little bit of planning some of the jokes that we make and other stuff so very a very interesting look into a very interesting place for a multitude people the ultimate behind the scenes and if you would like to become a tomorrow member it's literally all it takes is as little as 99 cents a month that's a quarter of a cup of coffee per month become a member of tomorrow and we're supported entirely by what you do with us and again if you would like to become a member of tomorrow you can head on over to youtube.com slash TMRO slash join and of course liking the video subscribing to us commenting and sharing is always helpful for us here at the show so that's it we're wrapping it up we'll see you next week unless you're a member because we're about to jump right into the member show but I'm gonna be here next week how about y'all yeah should be okay all right well we will see y'all next week thanks for joining us on tomorrow today and members we'll see you in like 30 seconds or so bye everybody