 It's my great pleasure to speak with professor Caroline Frankenberger, professor of strategy and innovation. I want to thank you for being part of our panel yesterday at the Brightline Workshop where we talked about transformation specifically and the Drucker Forum conversation here is all about ecosystems and as we think about ecosystems it's about solving great problems and doing that through ecosystems. To be able to, in doing so, transformation becomes a key enabler in terms of organizations being able to transform themselves to operate in this new environment. Can you share some thoughts and thinking and research that you've done relative to what it takes for an organization to truly transform? Thank you very much. It's a very important topic so for me it's really the key element of everything that we see currently was ecosystems, digitalization, et cetera. The key is really the transformation and if you're not able to manage the transformation then we will not be able to thrive in the new world and therefore for me it's less a strategy game, it's more an implementation game and that's where I did a lot of research actually my entire career but in the last year I did an intensive study again so I interviewed more than 100 CEOs, chief innovation officers and really to understand why are some successful, what's this transformation and why are some not successful and there are various things so I cluster them in four different dimensions so the first of all you need to understand as a CEO but as an organization why you need to do that, you shouldn't just do ecosystems because everyone does it and because the Peter Drucker Forum is about ecosystems but you should truly understand why do I do that, what is the purpose of it, what does it help me to thrive and to be successful or to offer better services to my customers so that's the first one and for me kind of this is the challenge that a lot of incumbents have just sticking to this why that it's something fundamentally new so it's really a new business model that is kind of at the center of this transformation and I see kind of as how we throw those two S-curves so the first S-curve is kind of the old business model where they used to be successful but then now with ecosystems and everything they really need to come up with a fundamentally new business model and that's kind of the second S-curve but that's the challenge because then there's this dilemma between the old world and the new world because and that's a real big challenge for the incumbents because on the one hand side they need to thrive the core business they need to do the digitalization of processes there as well and then on the other hand side they need to come up with this new second S-curve and then in addition to that the third challenge is they need to make sure that they create synergies and that they benefit kind of from the learnings of the past and that they can bring them over to the new S-curve so that's kind of the first dimension and the second one is the what so what do they need to do and this is this has a lot to do with strategy so what is the overall strategy that they want to that they have in order to to thrive in the future and I also see a lot of companies that they do all those shark tanks and corporate accelerators and you name it and they invest a lot of money in it but then at the end they fail miserably because they just did it because everyone did it but they didn't really think about what they want to achieve and therefore you need to have an overall strategy not meaning a strategic plan for the next five years but more like a portfolio of strategic initiatives that help you to to get there maybe you can cluster them in different kind of decrease of radicalness so you might want to have like more incremental ones that help you to thrive in the core business but then you want to have more radical ones that really help you to scale and to address all those ecosystem topics that are out there and I see it can as a portfolio with more incremental ones and more radical ones that's the what part and then the third part is kind of that the entire how I mentioned so how do we do this how do you implement it how do you make sure that your entire organization pushes that that they are engaged that they that they are supportive in this whole transformation that they are aligned exactly and we can come to that in a minute and then the fourth part is kind of the also to measure the results because if you don't measure it it doesn't get done and this is also something we never talk about because measure man kind of sounds a bit old fashion and why should I measure innovation how can I measure innovation at all but it's also super critical that you do that because if you don't do that then you just do projects and you start projects and then there are tons of projects and then at some point the organization cannot do anything anymore because they are just full of projects and they don't know how to prioritize etc. and I talked to a lot of CEOs throughout this last year and they told me well we have those 60 projects and they are all super important but then it was an organization with roughly a billion turnover but that's too much you cannot have 40 super important strategic projects so you need to boil it down to like 405 the critical ones and focus on them and just neglect all the other ones so and then therefore you have to measure the results and and if you see that they are not successful you also need to pull the black and say okay we kind of reshift the resources to something else because otherwise they they invest in this project and go on and go on and go on and then there are no results and then they get frustrated and then you can forget about your transformation.