 He said when he was offered the appointment to work with Buwari, he was reluctant to accept it because he did not know what was going into. I would say I had known President Buwari long before I came to work for him as advisor on media and publicity. He went further. Before then I had not worked in government and I had no desire to work in government. But when the invitation to work with him came, I took it because he was a man I admired. After he won the election in 2015 and said come and work with me, I wanted to say no because I was managing director of the Sunday's papers. I was president of the Nigerian Guild of Editors and I did not want to leave what I was doing. I was very reluctant when I was asked to come to government. When I resigned my appointment, I began to cry because I did not know what I was going into. We have the honor of having Mr. Fermi additional literally in our studios. Welcome. Thank you. Let's start on the lighter now. How are you fitting back into normal? Well, the truth is that even while I was in government I was not out of normalcy. I was still a member of the society. I didn't cocoon myself in government. I didn't make myself unreachable as a part of society. So finishing ten months ago and coming back home was not difficult for me. Still on the lighter note, were you also sticking by the reported invisible voodoo phantom in the presidency? One of your predecessors actually was once quoted to have stated that there is a phenomenon that ordinarily plagued those who worked in the villa. Were you... Well, I think if you have read the book working with Buhari, it's a whole chapter that was dedicated to that. I didn't see anything untoward. I didn't see anything mystical or mysterious in the villa. I think it's just a myth. And anybody that claims things like that happened is one that can defend it or justify it. But I was there for eight years, nothing untoward, nothing unusual. Would you not think that maybe when people think that those who are going into the villa would hurt in a particular way given what they think they know about the antecedents and they see them acting in seemingly contradictory way. Maybe that's why the reason, like the administration you served and the president you served was once thought to have subscribed to the idea of devolution when it was campaigning, especially in 2014. Was once thought to be a president that was going to bring about a more profound degree of sanity in public life. And so, you know, people naturally would take to such an opinion from whoever may have served in the villa that maybe when people get as constant in the villa there is a degree of detachment from the Nigerian public. How would you want to respond to that? Well, it would be a fallacy. And I'll give you this account. There was a time that things were quite difficult in the country. You know now, a lot of people say being power we are hungry, we are hungry. There was a time when we were worried that things were difficult too and things were expensive. So, one evening I went to see him at home and I said Mr. President, do you know that there is a lot of complaint about scarcity of food and the prices of essential commodities and all that. He said I know. He said I have people from my constituency who give me feedback. He said so I know what is happening. And we will do our best to make life better for them. So that shows you that when you are there there are different feedback mechanisms you can have. And unless you shop all those avenues then that is when you become closeted from reality. But there was this particular audio leak from the then Honourable Minister for Transport. Right Honourable Rotimiameichi when he said he was jukulally referring to some characters who felt they could complain. We said who doesn't even read newspapers. We would be concerned. There was that audio leak there. And it gave the impression of a man who was living in his own world. A man who was so far away from the reality of the Nigerian environment that even a ministerial character could have the temerity to allude to his principle as somebody who could not be bothered by any opinion or any especially social media opinionation that some people thought would reverberate to him. Well just like you said it was a leak. And in nature of leaks is that you can't authenticate it. So for all you know it could have been cooked up. It could have been manufactured. I didn't hear Minister Mechih saying yes I said so. Neither did he say no I didn't say so. So for all you know it may not be true. But the president who heard I won't do it was the one who told me as his media advisor 10 am every day I want the media highlights of my table. And when you give it to him he begins to read it immediately. And one time he told me he said when I read the media highlights at times I may not even read the main paper again. So when I read the highlights and I want to know more I find the paper you have referred to in the highlights and I go to read that story. So I guess in this age of information information inundation that is what most of us do anyway even those of us who are in the trade in the morning you want to look at the highlights and those items that are of interest to you you then dig further by I'm not saying you know it's a brief to hold. You know it's a lifelong brief you and Gaba Sheru. I was a bit sympathetic to you and Gaba Sheru and I must confess that on a number of occasions I think I you know just repeating some of the lines I would say you know I can't really blame Gaba Sheru and Fermi Addition because for me it would bow down a miracle to competently speak for an incompetent government many of the things that happened and it's not very inconsistent with the presidential system of government because it's like a big orchestra somebody inevitably we miss a chord somebody we miss a note that's not even in America where we've copied it from we know that the president may be speaking to a particular agenda and you could have one or two but I haven't said that what was the greatest challenge that you personally had whilst rarely and faithfully working for the man Buwari as his official spokesperson Well let me first attempt to one word you used an incompetent government that's your opinion that was what I used to say I never say it's not my opinion it is your opinion you have a right to it but it doesn't make you right I never said that I used to empathize with you and Gaba Sheru sometimes I would look at the two of you looking like even what you saw places with this gentleman you have done better you can't begin to pontificate that whatever is my opinion is the gospel truth is what is right I never said it to you but you have a right to it thank you thank you for at least that makes you more democratic more of a democrat than I would have thought of somebody that worked with a principal that that makes no sense that makes no sense okay you are asking what is the challenge specifically that you perceived that you encountered that you had to within the context of your personal values your principles your understanding of your profession how did you juggle it well I wouldn't say there was anything that came up that was insurmountable the nature of challenges is that they are meant to be confronted any challenge that came we confronted it and as much as possible we tried to surmount it I wouldn't say there was anything in my eight years in government that gave me a stiff challenge and maybe it amounts or amounted to regret no nothing I just took things in my stride as they came and I believe that I did my best a particular passage in your book speaks to the fact that when the distinguished senator Bukala Saraki emerged as the president of the of the Senate we knew that it was against the run of play of what the establishment the party establishment that's the APC establishment wanted but many of us just felt that he ultimately emerged because a man who was predisposed to allow a man who was predisposed to allowing democracy to run his course was not president Buwari was not ready to use any form of intimidation or but from the way you have reported it it seemed not to have liked it you had to work on him a little bit they even concede to really congratulating the new leadership of the then newly merged leadership of of the of the Senate how could we have bought the line those of us who thought were tele-readers and political analysts how could we have on the one hand bought the line that it was it was just because he didn't want to interfere with the process and yet somebody as proximate to him as he were still is and writing from the perspective of somebody who still wants to portray him as a democrat write that it was not a line it was reality because president Buwari is on record as having said before the proclamation of the national assembly whoever emerged as the leader or the leadership of boot houses he will work with he was on record as having sent that that means yes the party has this prescription rather than the prescription of the party is what happens but if it happens the other way we will work with anybody that emerges but then somebody has imagined through was what the president couldn't broke if he had imagined fair and score there will be no issue remember the background happenings they were waiting for a meeting with the party and then some people went behind to begin to meet left the venue and joined the plenary at the expense of majority of it while a large chunk because the people were not there still waiting for the meeting with the party leadership and because they had formed the corrupt something constitutionally acceptable was deemed to have happened so it was the subterfuge and the hanky-panky that went in with it that the president took not wanting to be too forensic it was a bit disturbed as an onlooker because at the said meeting that the senators elect of the party were supposedly scheduled to have all of them had congregated a detachment of at least what made some of us what convinced us that the president was going to come was because a detachment of army operatives were already on the ground and the only elected officer of state in Nigeria that is protected by personnel or officers or operatives of the Niger army is the commander in chief so we thought it was going to come but there was a bit of a delay because it like came in from the foreign tour the very morning so and in your opinion which is not gospel you thought some people play the first one on the party and play the quisling and want to join forces with the other side ultimately gave us a very chimeric leadership of the senate where the substantive president was the president was the party from the majority party but the vice president the deputy president of the senate was from unusually the opposition party but even at that as a democrat the municipal ought to have accepted it we have covered that ground he would have accepted it if it was fair and square but it was not there was subterfuge so how long did he take you to convince him that he needed to do what democrats ordinarily do across the world sometimes you get the leaking and keep on thinking the important thing is that at the end of the day he agreed that the statement should be used if you read the book he inserted one word that where I wrote that a constitutional process had been concluded he inserted a word some words in other words a constitutional process has some words been concluded the constitutional process was concluded it was, that was what I wrote and then he inserted a word some words because there was a lot of shenanigans that went into that which were not unusual in a political environment not unusual but there is also party supremacy and everybody that is a lawyer party member is expected to differ to the party using that now as as the microscope to to analyze managing a principled often obstinate man sorry he is minting the positive I agree with you you know I am appreciable to that point of obstinacy obstinacy and I am sitting there thinking who 80 years of your life was spent micromanaging not only the intellectual persona but indeed the emotional persona of a man who could tell you to your face that you know because of such things that were mentioned like soft afield I am not saying is not true many of us outside too could see the machinations and the but 80 years working closely with such a man you you didn't lose much weight you didn't lose much weight and your chubby face sorry maybe I wanted to take a I don't want to take a punch at you okay one thing I need to iterate here or reiterate because I have written it is that on the day I resumed work president Bwari told me he said one thing I want from you additional is the truth always always tell me the truth in this kind of position people cancel ring you and you would not know what is happening he said but from you I want a truth he said when I argue please argue with me he said in a general so I can argue he said but argue with me if you argue with me and you are right I will end up agreeing with you it was like giving me a blank check and that was why on that day and I said last issue a statement to congratulate the leadership of the national assembly and he said no I argued with him until he agreed there was another time more later in the administration a different party from the ruling party one election in one state I want to meet him we need to congratulate the new party and their candidate he said why should I congratulate my party and then he said why must I do it I said you need to do it otherwise it will be misinterpreted and I showed him the statement he wrote through and then he said go ahead if I didn't insist that statement would not have been issued so with such a person like any other human being sometimes these things are natural you know when your side is is walloped you feel you see and this part will be the last time I mention it I earlier said that I often empathized with you and the word empathy word that usually came to me then because the administration at a point went into or nurtured a culture of taciturnity you know it was almost almost got to a point of condescension you needed to hear from the president and the president was like in in Mongolia and we were getting exasperated some of us we were getting exasperated and Gabbashewu Gabbashewu is not Mohammad Buwari is not Mohammad Buwari what instructed a strategy and near let me borrow the word you had earlier used I will not call it I will call it a style pekulia and that was a metaphor a metaphore and phraseology you were very adept at it was even far more irritating it was even far more it was even far more yes yes because I had also been a student of stylistics in school I remember my stylistic lecturer telling us that style is idiosyncratic which means it differs from person to person showing class style is different from archaic style archaic style is different from JP Clark style style was pekulia to each of them so also with the president Donald Trump had his style where he would personally tweet and land himself in trouble and leave this media team and then president Buwari left things to us we just needed to cross check very crucial things with him before we issued now let me give you an illustration during covid you know there was a lot of trepidation everywhere it was going to wipe out the world it was going to wipe out Nigeria particularly and the black race so when there was going to be a shutdown the president made a broadcast a week after he made another broadcast and in another two weeks he made another broadcast three broadcasts within a month I was there on the radio station somebody called him and said we want the president to speak to us he must speak to us and then I asked the person I said this month alone there have been three broadcasts isn't that president speaking to the country but that was a time when the woman was a president like Donald Trump who be tweeting but that was a time when many world leaders many more world leaders were almost literally in the faces of their of their public president rose to the occasion and set up a presidential task force under covid headed by the secretary to the government which did a fantastic job in fact the UN secretary general commanded Nigeria for the way the covid challenge what mattered was result and not just the body movement Nigeria just wanted the president who had all the body movements last to some of the we've tried well enough to analyze cycle analyze the idiosyncrasies of the president but you also have some very peculiar idiosyncrasies that may that means the style is idiosyncratic I'm coming on to you because at least at least I could sympathetically pardon you speaking for your principle but you also took on some some unnecessary battles how did the welling wellers how did that emerge from less psychography if you also read my book a whole chapter was dedicated but you must tell her if you want and I'm going to tell it now maybe that will make some people buy your book a whole chapter was dedicated to the welling wellers what happened in the early days of the administration only summer 2 was a spokesman for pdp anything the president did or did not do if he went too heavily he would issue a statement against Buhari that was his that was his portfolio if he didn't read he would say Buhari's fault anything he should statement it became very exasperating to you not a word to anyone who was following and partisans of your party why well and we were in a large number so one day he issued one unnecessary statement from my view I then did a tweet I said these people went power for 16 years now they have lost it they do not seem to realize that they are not going to taste that power for a long time I then ended it with welling wellers so who was I talking to pdp and his spokesman that tweet was done in august 2015 remember the government came into power May 29 so it had only served june july the third month was when that tweet was done war followed he has abused us not pdp people people generally on social media who were anti Buhari he has called us welling wellers he is disrespectful he is this so they assumed that epithet for themselves that they were the welling wellers because I did not refer to them as welling wellers and they adopted it so I said well if you have adopted it you are welcome would you want to agree with me that you see sometimes you present a very innocuous facade of a face you act like you can barely kill an ant you but you are a very mischievous when it comes to when it comes to matters of the pain you could be very mischievous what instructed you signing even if it was methu and pdp what instructed the phasology welling wellers because we knew Bob Malley and the welling wellers and then we had a party which worried about everything so I then called them welling wellers so as innocent and chubby as the face looks don't be fooled sometimes sometimes goes to hunt for a fight when jakes presents there is no art to find the mind's construction in the face now reminds me of another TV host who said talking about the same thing he said again two troublemakers indeed some of us could some of us knew that you wouldn't want to run away from a fight but you would pretend and give a facade of a very comely I don't give a point to you know but you might slightly be biting anyway there were some there were some unfortunate incidents in Asorok that any any media any media professional would find it difficult to manage encounters some reported encounters between excellency the first lady and some family members one incident when there was a chase and somebody jumped the wall and there was there were some reported shots fired I'm picking my phrases well I wasn't there it was in the public and a moment like that a moment like that somebody like you and Malam Gaba she would have to not only sit by yourself but sit with your cutaway of strategist what did it take how did you manage such you know on the one hand it related more with the family than with the person of the president on the other hand the people would need some modicum of logical explanatory quote on quote and I was thinking I once told a friend what would you expect you know what would you expect in family addition to say about this now if you say a bit too much madam could be offended if you say a bit too much president was such there that you would even know he had this emotional management style that you could go blank you wouldn't even know so how did you guys for me and for us in the administration family was off limits off limits we didn't touch I remember that you emotionally lashed us with that line too these lines are coming now to hunt you who first used that line I think it was during the campaign and there was an issue about you bored it abandoned it because no family is off limits so me too that was the position I took family is off limits I was and I was feeling you want me to give you and I was feeling sorry for sorry for the French that was one weekend I came home you were on the radio station and you were criticizing me so much I said who is this person God love what did I do to him sometimes you got me so leave it but you see and a part of me would again say but what could you have done if you were to sell places I'm not doing this as a PR for you I know you because some people are watching now they are feeling I still have my cane somewhere in here I didn't want to speak the French but to speak the Yoruba I have my book you know it's a very delicate and sensitive assignment and you have to use your sixth sense to do it otherwise you land yourself in trouble you became the first Nigerian to hold the position for two times of a president not only in Nigeria in most liberal democracies it is perceived to be one of those portfolios with lots and lots of banana peels littering littering the warfare of the professional or the person because whichever way you speak some will be happy especially loyalists and partisans of the party of the president but some even if you even if you walk Rotimi Williams from the grave and Ghani Williams and Ghani Fawahimi was backing Rotimi Williams you couldn't you know that was because of the rabid partisanship that before I got into you became the media advisor of the president in an age when conventionalism left journalism left public relations left public perception management now speaking to students of journalism public relations because at some point we have to we have to appropriate some of the experiences you gained there for the benefit of especially as it relates to the fecundity of how you know information sometimes most of the negative ones come from the social media how do you think about it it was really so you see that in the administration the social media like exploded it has started under you know that Ruben Abati had to tackle people on social media at a point but by the time we came in 2015 it was everywhere it almost became a national distraction so what I did was I had to get on all the platforms social media too Facebook Instagram make a confession now you hold in an imaginary bible most of those tweets by the president was not directly by the president no this is how it happens this is how it happens there is a digital team headed by Tulu Gulesi when we do statements for the president most of which are approved by him they then convert it to tweets that's how it happens so it was more of a proxy yes it was a statement the back room the back room guys are already chasing us out of the studio but I can't but ask this look in a back now and you know the incumbent president has been very circumspect not making any negative allegation about his predecessor but we have some officers of the executive now speaking to how some things were done with utter absurdity in concrete lack of respect for processes procedure and the rule of law you are somebody who was part of that administration how do you sometimes feel when you wake up and you see there are still allegations but and you see the MFA and the CBN story go one way you hear some you read about some abuses of processes and how it did seem if one were to draw a picture that the president was being not directly but in a way being painted not to be in control on January 16 when this book working with Buhari was publicly presented President Buhari was there he made a speech and he said when things are not put on record revisionists who have the day he said for everything that was done under him in his administration the records are there so anybody that wants to check anything should look at the records so all those who are talking today they would fare better if they go to look at the records to find out what exactly happened under President Buhari they will find that there are questions already is it a friend family addition I don't like when I get this even me I was thinking I know you are you have an enthusiastic title of a sort I just love the one brother brother family to be honest with you loyalty is said not to be an act that is done only when you are seeing to be doing it that you are still standing by your principal and using the giftings of God in your life to still want to give the record as best as you believe it should be seen all the best thank you very much wish you all the best this is where we wrap it up for today quite an encounter with Mr. Family Addition I am Gola Oba