 All right, hey everybody, welcome back Facebook Live. And I know a lot of you are probably on break. So thanks for joining us. Some of you like me took last week off and are working this week, but I do have today and I am so excited to be here with Dr. Hadea. I will introduce him in just a minute, but just some housekeeping items. If you've been here before on my page, this is recorded so you can come back and listen if you've missed any pieces. And then it will also be on my YouTube channel, which is just under my name, Jill Carnahan. And there's loads and loads of great interview and free content there. So I would encourage you to go visit. If you like this interview, go see what else we have. Today is gonna be really, really exciting. And you're just gonna have to hang onto your brains because we're gonna go deep and into some of the technical aspects of neuropsychiatric illness and new frontiers in treatment. But just stay tuned. Dr. Bob Hadea is an expert leader in this field and I'm super excited. And I'm gonna be learning along with you all as well. So thanks for joining us. I'm gonna introduce Dr. Robert Hadea first here. He's been practicing at the cutting edge of psychiatry, clinical psychopharmacology and neuropsychiatry since 1979. He formally pioneered the use of functional medicine in these fields since 1996. And if I recall, Bob, I think you and I probably met through IFM some somehow along the way. I know you were teaching and I as well. And we were probably among the first to be certified. Yeah, he's a clinical professor of psychiatry at Georgetown University Medical Center where he's been awarded teacher of the psychoneuroimmunoendocrinology, say that three times fast. He's also the winner of prestigious Vincential Award at Georgetown and educator and faculty member at the Institute for Antidepressant Survival. I'm sorry, at the Institute for Functional Medicine. He is the author of three books, Understanding Biological Psychiatry, The Antidepressant Survival Guide and Depression and Advancing the Treatment Paradigm and the founder of Whole Psychiatry and Brain Recovery Center. He's editor, he's editor of one of my favorite journals, The Advances in Mind, Body Medicine and Alternative Therapies in Health and Medicine. And he's been featured all over just such a well-known teacher, beloved by all. And you know, I love having people like you, Dr. Hideo on the podcast. Bob, thank you. Because I love, you bring this inquistiveness and curiosity and I come with the same thing where we're just looking for new things and answers. And I think that's why, compared to all of our allopathic colleagues who are still in the conventional paradigm, we were trained in this. It's given us an incredible strong foundation. But what we've done is we've asked more questions. We've been a little more curious and we're kind of on the edge sometimes, but the edge is where progress is happening, where change is being made and where you and I are seeing miracles. So thanks so much for joining us. I'm just delighted to have you here. Oh, it's great to be here, Jill. It's really a pleasure, really a pleasure. Thanks. But what I love to start, everybody knows, I love to know, why did you get into medicine? How did you ever get first, get connected to psychiatry? Tell me a little bit about your story and your journey here. That could take the whole hour. I'm still telling you. It was an accident, I was gonna be a surgeon and I hated psychiatry and my mentor actually said, we got a kid on the fourth floor who has abdominal pain. We can't explain where it is. I'm gonna teach you how to hypnotize him, go hypnotize him. Wow. I don't know how to hypnotize him. So he hypnotized me and he said, now go do it. So I went up and I hypnotize this little 10 years old or something like that. And I age regressed him to three. And then I was like, oh my God, I don't know how to get him back. So I improvised and brought him back and his pain went away and I was like, wow, I am blown away by the mind. I'm blown away. I will never, never be bored by this. So I went to my dean of my medical school and I said, hey, I'm switching from surgery to psychiatry and he called up Georgetown. He said, I got a guy here and I was in Georgetown and that was it. Did you always want to go into medicine? Did you have that heart from my young age? I was like, there was like a GPS signal in my brain. I didn't know why, but there was a GPS signal that it was medicine and that was it. Oh, I love that. I have the same way and I didn't even know because I was looking at acupuncture and chiropractic and all these alternatives as I thought. But there's this healer that kind of is inborn in us. And I love a part of it was that curiosity we talked about because we love to seek answers and we love to help people find answers in the journey. And even at that experience with a 10 year old boy, you took a totally unique route and probably helped him really to come to some. He should only know what he did for me, you know? He doesn't know, you know? No, yeah, someday maybe you'll meet him again. And then tell me more about the journey. So you got your residency and training in psychiatry and then did you go right into conventional psychiatry? What happened? So I was trained, you know, I went into conventional psychiatry. I would say that I have a high tolerance for not knowing, high tolerance for uncertainty, high tolerance for anxiety, you know, you're sitting in front of somebody and you don't know what the answer is. You have to tolerate the anxiety of not knowing. That's tough. So there were certain markers along the path in my career. So, you know, a woman who had panic disorder that was untreatable until I figured out that she had a B12 deficiency and then a panic went away. And then my own chronic fatigue syndrome that I got me into functional medicine. And then I was treating my patients. I was a psychopharmacologist, you know? And I was using a lot of meds and cognitive behavioral therapy, which was cutting edge at the time. And then when I got into functional medicine, I was blown away by the efficacy in my treatment-resistant patients. And particularly after my second book, which was a bestseller, then we had a flood of patients and I was treating everybody. They're all motivated through the functional medicine. They're all getting better. And then I thought everyone's getting better. I must be lying to myself. So I did a retrospective analysis of the patients. It was 23 patients over a period of about 18 months with treatment-resistant depression. And they all got better. These were severe depression with no medication changes, except for one patient. And then, you know, that was pretty astounding. And so really I switched. I still do some psychopharmacology. It's a useful tool, but it's way, way overused. And then I was been doing functional medicine pretty much. That's it since the late 90s. And then about two and a half years or so ago, I just really went on a learning quest and started to read about lasers. And I thought, gee, you know, I didn't know anything about lasers at the time. And people were doing some work with lasers. And I was blown away. I said, this could really help people, you know, and so I started studying lasers and then I bought a laser and then I, somewhere along the line, I said, well, I got to know where to apply the laser. Oh, I investigated QEGs and basically developed the method for which I use QEG-guided laser treatment of the brain. And we layer that on functional medicine along with hyperbaric oxygen, along with neurofeedback, some other medications that I wasn't using before for traumatic brain injury when needed. I like to avoid that. And so I've really come to a big change. It's a long way from where I started, but it's a big change. And now I can help a lot of people that I couldn't help before. So I love that. And if you're listening, we are going to dive into QEG. If you don't know what that is, we're going to dive into HBOT, which you probably don't know yet what that is. And we're going to dive into lasers. And I want to hear Dr. Hedaya tell us all about each of these things. And he's actually going to share a few cases. So stay tuned. Before we do, our common interest was functional medicine and both through our own journeys and illness, we kind of found that. And when did you first kind of come across functional medicine? You mentioned, do you mind telling just a little bit of your story with the fatigue and then how you got into functional medicine? Well, so I was actually doing, didn't know it was functional medicine or Jeff Bland was calling it, I think metabolic medicine. Yes. And then I wrote my first book and I had a chapter in which I had an acronym, ThinkMed, which was tumors and inflammation and et cetera, all the functional medicine nodes. And Jeff Bland saw it. And so he contacted me and he interviewed me. And then I finished my book and I was exhausted after my book. Oh yeah. And a nutritionist friend said, you, I think you're on the edge of chronic fatigue. So I tested my natural killer cells and my NK cell activity was low and I became very alarmed. And I was like, wow, I got to change my behaviors. I changed my diet, start exercising, supporting my drenals, et cetera. And I was recovered very quickly and then started to learn the functional medicine or metabolic medicine more formally, which was overwhelming because the amount of information was crazy. And then by, I think it was 99, 1999 and went to, I think it might've been the second IFMCP or AFMCP. I didn't get any edge. You were like the very first cohort. It was like 30 people. Yeah. It was unbelievable. It was truly a gift, truly a gift. What Jeff Bland has done is just phenomenal. Just phenomenal. It really is. And I remember the same journey for me is when I heard functional medicine, what is it? It's kind of like what my heart had always wanted to do all along, but I didn't know there was a name for it. So, and for those of you listening, if you know me, of course, hopefully you know what functional medicine is, but basically we're looking for root cause of disease and we're not throwing aside our medical training. We're both allopathic physicians and trained in the best medicine in our system right now for trauma and for these kinds of things. But I always say it's like our toolbox was just small enough to have, you know, medication surgeries and intervention, psychopharmacology, now our toolbox is much, much bigger. And some of the things you're going to talk about today are even more tools that I think, as we think outside the box, and even you and I started before we started recording, you're talking about how even supplements, nutrition, lifestyle, these are core functional medicine concepts, but now we have, you know, lasers, I have red light therapy here, I have PER math behind me. So those things, and then even dealing with childhood trauma and the limbic system activation, it goes so much broader than just even the functional medicines. Our toolbox just keeps getting bigger. It really does. And it has to because illness is becoming, in a certain sense, more complex. In a certain sense, we're really learning that most of the chronic illnesses have their origin in like really like one or two processes like insulin resistance, you know, it affects the whole body in all kinds of ways. Yes. When I remember really diving into teaching LPS endotoxemia, which is for those of you listening when the bacterial coating of the gut cross over into the immune system, this is probably the underlying factor and majority of heart disease, obesity, diabetes, and mental illness, depression, anxiety, insomnia, bipolar, et cetera. So this whole end back to the gut and some of the founders function is and said, start with the gut. Well, they were right because a lot of our psychiatric illness starts with the gut. And of course there's a lot more, but What I'm gonna show you today is mind boggling. My mind has been turned inside out by what I'm gonna show you. I tell my wife, I say, honey, my mind is blown. I can't believe that I have practiced the psychiatric patients all this time and what I have been missing blows my mind, blows my mind. Oh, I am so excited to dive in. And I also just want to say to those listening if you don't know Dr. Hidayet, what I love he's humble, he is the most kind, generous kind of person you'd ever want to meet, but he is brilliant. You guys are in the presence of genius and I just have such great respect for you. I really mean that Bob, you've been an inspiration to me and I just feel honored to be your colleague and be in the circle. Well, let's kind of dive in and why don't you kind of define some of the first of all, tell us what is your practice kinds of patients that you see? And then let's define some of these things that you're using and then we can dive into the cases of how you're using them. Well, so, you know, I really see from 10 to 90, you know the primary issue for me is, look what functional medicine is complex and demanding, it's not easy. It's not swallow a pill and get better. Lifestyle change, it's supplements, it's exercise, you know, and it's organization of this and you need support and you need to find the resources for the testing and I'm very data driven. So I like to know what I'm doing. I don't like to guess, et cetera. So one of the things is, does the person have the support? Can they pull this thing off or not, you know? And that's very important. But for me, what I see is it's such a broad range because it's psychiatric. I see people with early cognitive decline, vascular dementia, Parkinson's disease, certain things I won't touch because I know I can't help ALS, for example. I don't, I can't do anything for that. And then the psychiatric problems from A to Z, really. It's, there's, along with that, as everybody really knows, come all the comorbidities like diabetes and hypertension. So I'm kind of an internist and now with COVID, I'm very involved with COVID. I've been working very intensively with the ICU docs at Cornell and Mount Sinai, which is quite a headache because they are so locked in. These are very bright people. They're very bright people. They're encyclopedic in their knowledge, but they don't think, most of them don't think. I always, I kind of joke that if they were on Apollo 13, they would not have come back. No, you're right. Cause you have this, I started with like, there's something unique that connects us in functional medicine and it's the curiosity and the willingness to go, you said it best. It's to go to that place of uncertainty. And I always say, what, number one, asking the question, why? Yeah, you have to just follow the evidence. Yes. Follow the data. That's all you have to go look for the truth. That's what you have to do. And you have to really, we were trained. I mean, I'm a very analytical left brain kind of person. I was an engineer background, but as I've grown into my career and what I do, I really tap into the right brain intuitive side because I feel like we can process millions of points of data in a split second with our subconscious versus the linear thinking. And it actually totally expands our ability to get new and creative answers to difficult problems. Don't you agree? Yeah. So what I find is, as I'm getting deeper into all of this stuff, my right brain is falling behind. Yeah. I know, right? It's not good. It's not good. Good. Well, this is great. So the kind of foundation of what you treat. And again, we're going to go to cases in a bit, but tell us a little about some of these new modalities because some of these terms, QEG, HBOT, lasers, what are they? Tell us what the, what are they need? Great. So QEG is quantitative EEG. So the EEG for people who don't know is basically where you put a cap on and it measures 19, you can do 139 measurements, but we use a 19 channel, which is what's used clinically. Most cases, some people use less and you're measuring the electricity at the surface of the brain in the different areas. So the frontal, the temporal, occipital, parietal areas of the brain and you're measuring them and comparing them with standard measurements, age, sex, et cetera. And then you see which areas of the brain are overactive and which are underactive. And then there are amazing mathematical calculations that have been done so that you can actually use the surface data to actually predict accurately what is happening with deeper structures in the brain and also with neuronal networks in the brain. So you can actually say, oh, this nerve tract is under functioning, it's under communicating or over communicating. They're both bad, they're both non-functional. And so with the QEG, you can actually know what's going on inside the brain better than an MRI. Now it is not for looking for tumors, this is a different, this is a functional test, but you can see actually how the brain is functioning at a very remarkably detailed level. I think the resolution is 21 cubic millimeters, 21 voxels, which is pretty good. It's not great, it could be better, but it's on par with MRI and PET actually. So a couple of questions and again I'm just coming as an ignorant because I don't know the details here, but how would this, first of all, some of us in mold and Lyman, these kind of chronic infection and toxic things are doing neuroquants, which are volume metrics of that. So just for people listening of the regions of the brain. So for example, hit the campuses blown up spherical and they give a volume that is age match. They say it's a shrunken atrophied or hypertrophied like inflamed. I have a feeling that that does not correlate completely. We really don't know how it correlates, but what's your thoughts on neuroquant compared to this accuracy? And if there's even value in neuroquant because I don't know what to make of it yet. Well, so it's a great question. So not a lot of patients, but in two patients, I have been able to have a neuroquant and compare it to the region and it actually correlates. Interesting. That's what I was thinking because I'm guessing it's hypo functioning in some of the atrophied areas. And then either it could be with inflammation, I'm assuming also could be like frontal lobe inflammation. So if you're atrophied, for example, then what you're gonna see is decreased function. And if you're hypertrophied, it's a decreased function or altered function, but the difference will be perhaps that you might see something that's called hypercoherence or hypercoherence, right? Overcoherence or undercoherence, meaning while the neurons communicating, we think of it waves in the ocean, right? You have waves in the ocean and you wanna accelerate a wave, then the next wave has to come at just the right time and it'll accelerate it, right? So if one neuron wants to talk to another neuron in a different part of the brain, it has to send its signal at just the right time and it has to arrive at just the right time in order to accentuate or cancel whatever is the intended effect, the wave at the other point. So if the waves are out of sync, then you have reduced communication either because of excessive wave activity or under activity, right? So on the, what I have found is that the areas that are disturbed on the neuroquant seem to correlate with the areas that are disturbed on the QEG. Okay, that's good, because that's again, I'm assuming this could, and I have seen some changes with treatment on the neuroquantz, which is exciting to see like a hippocampus, we say that hippocampus won't change, but I've seen them actually go from 40% to 68%. Well, if we have a chance, I'm gonna show you a woman's hippocampal change. Oh, good, I can't wait. So one of the thing on the QEGs, and again, just for myself and everybody listening, can you describe a little bit about the different waves and what they mean like beta, delta, gamma? Sure, sure, sure. So the waves up into categories, we give them silly names, right? And delta is, so the waves come when we talk about the frequency of the neurons, how they fire. When they fire one time per second, we say it's one hertz, because hertz is the guy that name the frequencies. So one hertz are neurons that fire one time per second, two hertz are neurons that fire two times per second, and we measure them, they can go up to hundreds of hertz in the brain, but we right now only have the capacity in at least in my clinical awareness of measuring maybe up to 40 hertz, okay? So the one to four hertz, one to four times per second are the delta. And the delta are kind of like unconscious processes. So very, like when you go into deep sleep, that's delta sleep, that's one to four hertz. Your neurons that are firing primarily are the ones that are firing one to four times, it's slower, right? It's only one to four times. Now, when we get to five to nine hertz is called theta. And the theta is really where you have a lot of the emotional regulation, right? So five to nine hertz, and that's where you find seizure activity, for example, typically in six and seven hertz. And then when you get to 10 or 11 hertz, we call that alpha, that's the frequency where you're kind of, you're aware of your internal environment, you're aware of the external environment, you're very relaxed, your meditators have a lot of alpha, right? And then when we go above alpha, we go to say 12 to 30, let's just say, that's beta, which is subdivided, but beta is firing, let's say 12 to 30 times per second. That's a lot faster. Now, if you just think about it, if you're trying to solve problems in your environment, you got to be really, really quick, you're gonna be doing a lot of beta. If you're anxious, you're gonna be doing a lot of beta, right? Yeah. So that's a kind of a broad assessment of these things. Oh, this is super helpful, Ginks, for the listeners. And then the other thing I was gonna ask you in a little sidetrack here, you've heard me talk about via light and it's kind of old school now, there's so many other things out there. I still like it and I have the alpha via light, so it's at that hurts. And for me, it helps me to focus and probably come down from my beta. Any thoughts on those? For people listening, this is a red light that actually has a prong that goes up your nose, so it hits through here and you can probably describe better what that does, Bob. And then it sits on the head and actually through the skull. What do you think about red light? Any thoughts on that? So, you know, the studies done by Henderson show that with a high-intensity laser, say 10 or 15 watts, only 2.4 to 2.9% of the light actually penetrates the skull and the meninges, et cetera. Without the hair, forget the hair, you gotta show it. So you're getting a very little amount of light. And when you're using something that say a quarter of a watt, not 10 watts or 15 watts, I wonder if it's penetrating the skull. And so the thought is because there are studies that show that there's efficacy, although I think a lot of them are done by the company. Yes, exactly. But they still show efficacy. So I wonder and people wonder if it's related to remote effects of the light, say on the blood or something like that. Now, when you talk about the light and the nose, there's still a lot of tissue that it has to go through. Yeah, there's a lot that has to go through, right? But, you know, so I don't have an answer. I'm not ready to say no, it's not valid. I can't say that, I just can't understand it. I totally understand. Now, what you're doing with lasers though, this is on another level, it's similar idea, right? But way more powerful. So tell us about the laser. It's not only more powerful, but it's just incredible. So tell us about the lasers. I want to hear about that. All right, I can't contain myself, sorry. I know, it doesn't mean either. I have to just show you, I'm just going to show you one slide here. I'm going to share my screen here, let's see. I think you should be able to do that. Here we go, I'm going to share my screen now, okay? Okay, so this here, wrong one, hang on. Sure. I'm sorry. Here it is, this should be it. There we go. Okay, so let me tell you about this guy. Okay. Okay, so this guy, so let me actually orient everybody first, okay? So anything that's gray is normal, okay? So basically you can see this guy's brain is completely normal, except he has a problem here and a problem here. What we see over here is another way of looking at connectivity in the brain. So this is the right side of the brain. This is the left side of the brain. And this is showing us that this part of the frontal cortex is over signaling and very inefficient to this part of the, probably the parietal or temporal, probably the parietal area, okay? So this is where this guy was. Now let me tell you about this guy. This is a guy who anybody would probably say he's a paranoid schizophrenic, okay? 24-year-old guy, oh boy, oh boy, oh boy, all right. So anyway, this guy. And Bob, real quick, are we looking at QEG data or forgive me for what kind of imaging is this? This is QEG data. So if you look at this here, this is the superior occipital fasciculus and this is the vertical, superior longitudinal fasciculus. This is the vertical occipital fasciculus here, okay? Now, this guy, basically his whole life was seeing people as if they were, let me just expand this more here, as if they were looking at him in a demeaning manner, okay? So he had a social phobia. Now, what happened here is when I looked up this tract here, it turns out that this tract modulates the emotional valence of faces, okay? And it also is involved in reading. So what we did, and this also is involved in facial recognition. Is that one of the superior lateral inferior sulcus or one of those guys that is, am I totally honest? Well, this isn't a sulcus. So this is connection between probably area 17 or 18 back here, Brodman area 17 or 18 and a part of the temporal lobe, which is emotional regulation, right? So the emotional and visual areas are talking to each other, but they're not talking well. This here is under connected. They're not communicating to each other, okay? This one here is the frontal. This is kind of where you're thinking, right? And this is also communicating poorly because it's over communicated. The equivalent of me yelling in your ear really loud. You wouldn't know what I was saying. You'd know I was talking. And this is the equivalent of me whispering. You maybe know I'm saying something, but you don't know what I'm saying. So they're both very inefficient. So what we did is this is again, layered on a functional medicine program is we, for example, he was very gluten intolerant, extremely gluten intolerant. And so we got him off gluten, got him off sugar, got him off dairy and put the laser right here and right here. And four treatments later, the problem's gone. Wow. Now here's the amazing thing. The amazing thing is he starts reporting that people like these visual distortions are disintegrating, that he starts to notice for the first time in his life that what he's seeing actually doesn't fit with the facts, like the person is talking nicely, but the face looks demeaning now. He's beginning to make that connection. It doesn't actually fit. And by a month after the treatment, his visual distortions melted away and were gone. Wow. So his social phobia and his anxiety, his paranoia is gone. Now, what I told him, I said to him, you know what, you're like a colorblind person. I wouldn't, if you were colorblind, I would not have you decorate my house. Yeah, exactly. I said, and you, you know, the way it's been for you your entire life is you can't really read faces. Yeah. You've been reading, misreading faces. Of course you're having social anxiety. Right. And you know, there's more complexity obviously to the case. So that's the specificity that I'm talking about. Now, this is mind boggling. It is. I'm just literally jaw drop going, this is spectacular. It reminds me of years and years ago, the man who mistook his wife for a hat. Right. And he didn't know that was he a neurologist, I believe. Now you're going to love this. Now you're going to love this. It turns out that when he was young, he started having seizures because when he started eating, I guess, well, it turns out he started having seizures too. So his mother figured out that dairy and gluten and sugar were a problem. So she got rid of those, the seizures went away, but his behavior became very difficult. And his mom was going through a tough time and she was aggressive with him. And she's a sweetheart of a woman. So it's not like she's an abuser or anything, she was irritable and temperamental, et cetera. And he became very frightened because he's a harm avoidant kind of guy. He's just kind of built that way. So he had trauma. Yeah. Now he's going through trauma therapy. Wow. So that, you know, we're, you know, dissolving that basic fundamental anxiety that he's been living with his whole life, you know. So, you know, there's lots of layers to this kind of thing. It's not just point the laser. It's not just functional medicine. It's also the trauma. Bob, I love this, because you're bringing together and for those of you listening, like gluten about, we always think of it as a gut effecting and causing celiac, but Bob and I know we see at least 50% neurological complications from gluten. So funny because many people just a taxia or even like you said, psychosis or other behavioral or psychiatric illnesses purely with no gut symptoms at all. Right. So this is the idea. And this kind of takes me back to my training when, you know, at 12 o'clock, you know, the doctors were saying, well, the explanation of mental illness is cognitive problems. And the one o'clock it's molecules and at two o'clock it's the mother and, you know, Freud and at three o'clock it's the family system. And I used to go like, what, who knows what, what is going on? And the answer is all of it's going on. Yes. The answer is it depends on the lens that you use. And you know, what, what, Mike, what level is your lens? How broad is your lens? How narrow is your lens? So we try in the whole psychiatry approach, we try to use many different lenses to identify the problem. So that's one example. Wow, that is mind blowing. I'd love to hear some more. I know you've got some cases. If you want to jump in and share a few, this is. Let me show you another one here. This is case, patient zero, okay? So after I got my QEG set up and everything else, my laser, and I knew how to use these things and everything, this woman comes to me actually six months before and I with mild cognitive impairment, temporal lobe seizure, which you didn't even know she's been having all her life. And, and then also prosopagnosis so she can't recognize faces for the last seven years. So I, she was in post-menopausal. I mean, there's a whole history. You know, she had one point was a drinker. She had it was exposed to some toxins, et cetera. But we did the whole thing and she was feeling so much better. But then I did a QEG and she was much better but she was not well. Yeah. And so this on the left is her QEG. Now we have a lot more information. What we see here, all this red area, all this red means that these cortical areas, the surface of the brain are overactive. Wow. Now what causes the brain to be overactive? It's a lack of energy because the brain uses most of its energy to stop firing. Okay, you need energy to inhibit the action potential. Yes. And then you withdraw that when you need to send out the signal. But basically most of the energy is spent stabilizing the brain. Okay, the brain is spent spending most of its energy inhibiting firing. So in this case, what you're looking at is a brain even though it's red is a brain that's firing wildly and out of control. And the area that's worst here in this woman who's about 57, I think is the hippocampus. Her hippocampus is totally very unstable. If you look down here, I don't know if you can enlarge this here. And I can't enlarge it. But the hippocampus here is 2.8 standard deviations from the norm. Wow. Okay, so that's pretty abnormal. And she was having cognitive problems. And what you see here is her thalamus in red that's also overactive. And you could see here the connectivity is disturbed, et cetera, right? Now this on the right is after, I think it was 17 treatments. This is at still at six hertz. The neuron population is firing six times per minute per second. And here's six times per second. And you can see a vast improvement in the surface. It's not normalized yet, but it did normalize. And you can see that her hippocampus here, these crosshairs are on the hippocampus is now 1.4 standard deviations from the norm. She's actually considered normal. And her memory did improve. Actually her seizures went away. And here's the mind boggler. This is the mind boggler. After her first laser treatment at T3 on the left side of her brain, her ability to recognize faces came back completely. So basically the neurons that are involved in facial recognition, there are a bunch of tracks but some of them go through the temporal lobe. The neurons that are involved were alive but kind of asleep. And so with the focus laser treatment, we basically delivered ATP energy to those neurons. This woman had her treatment, came back into my office 10 minutes later to schedule the next appointment. And she said, oh my God, I remember the face of the person that I worked with this morning and his wife and she had a mole on her face. And she went through the whole thing. And then we did a Cambridge Facial Recognition Test and she was normal on the test. Wow. And it's remained normal. It's remained normal. So this is one, another example of really, that's why I like using the QEG to focus. I am just blown away. I have a few practical questions. How long have you had the QEG equipment in that? Has it been years or decades or how long have you been doing that? No, no, no. It's been about two and a half years, I would say. Okay. And then the lasers did that come after the QEG because you found like- No, I didn't use the laser until I had the QEG. Got it. I got the QEG setup, which was not an easy task. I can't imagine. Then because the field is kind of arcane. First of all, I'm an Apple guy and it's all on PC. That alone is horrible. I know, me too. I wouldn't know what to do. It's horrible. That alone is a trauma. And so I got the QEG setup and then it's very difficult. And then I got the laser setup and then I had to read the QEG. I had to hire somebody to read it because it takes- This is highly technical. That's what I'm saying. We're not trained in medical school this level. No, no, no. I still, I always, on every case, consult with somebody who's an expert. There are people who've been doing this for 20, 30 years. They know what they're doing. But what I will say that they don't do, that I am doing is analyzing the pathways, like the guy where I talked about the frontal occipital vesiculus. I spent six hours going over his QEG, correlating with the symptoms in the tracks and what they do. And I identified these tracks and, you know. Unbelievable. And this is just, you're right. This is mind-blowing. And I am- It's mind-blowing. You're one of the few people who's really doing this, Bob. Is that correct? Like I don't know if anyone else- Yeah, I don't, there's nobody. There are people doing laser on the brain, high-intensity laser. There's nobody that I know who is doing a QEG-guided laser. Yeah. I'm hoping, I'm trying to get a setup where I can train clinicians, get more data. Yeah. So we can, you know, publish more data, of course. But anyway, that, you know, the lasers are very, very expensive. The QEG equipment is expensive, et cetera. So I'm trying to figure out how to make that happen. Exactly. Well, I'm gonna be sure and share this as much as I can to get the word out. And at the end, we'll make sure and where people can find you if there's a clinician who's interested or how we can support you. Because I wanna support the work that you're doing. I think this is absolutely critical to the future. Let me blow your mind one more time. Yeah. Okay. One more. I love this, so keep going. Okay, let me share my screen here and show you this one here. So, you know, for people who don't know QEGs, this is the raw data that we start with. It's a lot of squiggly lines, et cetera. So the images you were showing us, is that the analysis of the raw data put into images and places? Yes, it's a refined analysis. I mean, you could do a lot of analysis of this QEG record, really. And you could see, for example, right here, well, not exactly here. Somewhere in this record is a theta phase reversals, which is indicative of a pre-seizure activity, et cetera. I mean, there's a lot you can learn from the raw wave, but it's actually more refined. This analysis here is more refined. And the reason I wanna show you this is because now with this, I can actually move things around. Wow. Let's show you what's going on. So just to orient everybody, here is like you're looking down at the person's head, you know, slice the top of the head off, and this is where you're looking at. Here is looking as if you're sliced the middle of the head, and here is looking a frontal slice, so the eyes of the person would be looking at you, coming out of your computer. Here, what we have is a model of the person's head, and here we have the blue, our tracks, a bunch of nerve tracks that are under communicating. So for example, if we look here, we see the frontal lobes are not communicating, and we can look here at the particular tracks. Let me move this thing here. And I can look, this is the, should be the anterior commissure here. No, maybe not. Let's see. So I would have to, there's the corpus callosum. So that's the anterior corpus callosum. You see it coming and going. So I can say where the under function is happening. Now this person obviously has a bunch of areas that are under functioning. So the story with this guy, just to give you a little background, is this is a guy who came to me twice. Once I treated him with functional medicine, helped him a little bit, diagnosed Lyme disease. He went to a Lyme clinic where he had IV antibiotics, his temper, his rage went down, but he still had, when he came back to me, his derealization was quite high, his depersonalization 70% of the time, separate from his body, severe depression, difficulty falling asleep. Every time he'd fall asleep, get alerted and activated, he had to sleep in his parents' home in their bedroom. You know, he's that anxious. So this is the first QEG that we did. And here we're looking at the neurons that are firing one time per second. I'm just gonna scroll up here and you'll see. So the Delta, right? So this is the Delta, one, two, three, four. Now we get to four and things start to change. We're at the top of Delta. We get to five, now things are getting worse. Now we're in low theta, but what you see here as we go up here is that it's really getting pretty bad, right? Now if we go down here, what you see, this is another of those mind-bending things. Now this guy is having, let me just scope to nine for a second and see if it shows it better. No, he's better at nine. So this guy here at seven, you see that the worst area that's picked up by the crosshairs is Heschel's Gyrus. And this is in the medial temporal area, the parahippocampal areas. And the parahippocampal areas are the first areas and the thalamus, which is right here. Right here is the thalamus, so bring the crosshairs here to the thalamus, right? And this is the parahippocampal areas in here. The parahippocampal areas are the first areas to take a hit when you're hypoxic. So I went back after this analysis and I asked his mother, did he ever have hypoxia? And sure enough, she says she had a horrible labor, a 24-hour labor, and he was hypoxic. Wow. Wow, so what does this mean? The bottom line is that this means that you see his thalamus gets worse as we go up here, it turns red. You see his thalamus here? Oh, wow. Basically, he can't integrate his internal experience and the external experience, his whole life. Yeah. He can't predict what's gonna happen in his world because a thalamus is an integrating station from the internal to the external and the thalamus sends fibers out to layer four of the cortex and that's in the delta area and the theta area. And so this guy, he can't function in the world. Yeah. So he's having trouble getting through and he starts using drugs. Yeah. But he's growing up in a middle-class family, professional family, good people and he wants to have a life but there's no way he's gonna make a life for himself because he can't function, because he can't integrate. So what do you get? You get depression, you get anxiety, you use drugs, you get dissociated, et cetera. So what short, long story short, basically we did functional medicine. In his functional medicine analysis, he had, his iron was running high, he's tended to hemochromatosis. So we treated that, he had pyroluria. So we treated his zinc, his copper, his B6. He had some thyroid issues from really chronic stress, vitamin D, that kind of thing. And basically then we gave him hyperbaric oxygen because that will work on these problems. And we did neurofeedback. In six months, he's got a job and he's working full-time. Wow. And we still have work to do but he's not depressed. His depersonalization dissociation is markedly reduced. He can sleep. Now he couldn't sleep because when you're going to sleep, your kind of, your brain is winding down, it's going beta, alpha, to theta, to delta, you're asleep. Well, every time he gets into theta, his brain is going wild. Yeah, it's like, ooh, party time. Party time, can't stop. So that's the story on this guy. Bob, you told me this is interesting, but I'm just literally like, I could spend three hours here with you. We're going to have to come back for sure. But so a couple of questions I'm thinking because I deal a lot with chronic environmental toxicity, just environmental chemicals and especially mold. And then of course, Lyme and tick-borne infections. But what I'm hearing is there's these, probably ancestral pre-birth events and there's birth events and there's trauma and then there's things like food and diet and lifestyle. And then there is- Is it injury? Yeah, head injury, yeah. We didn't even talk about concussions. But this is really, what we talked about at the beginning before we got on is the functional medicine is just this much of what we do. And then adding these things on is so profound because there's no supplement that could do what you just showed us the laser could do. There's nothing like that. And it's profound because you're changing and it's pretty instantaneous, right? Like you're getting a very quick result. Well, we get quick results. This guy, the one guy I showed you before was four times but the woman who had the MCI and the temporal lobe, I believe she was 20, I think 25 treatments. If someone has an early dementia, for example, you might need ongoing treatments. I treated a guy with vascular dementia, early vascular dementia and he did everything I asked and he texted me. One day I texted him just to check in on him and he said, oh, my memory is my new superpower. I was like, he must be having a good day. That's all. But I did a CNS vital signs on him and he was not kidding. He was scored in the 95th percentile. Wow, well, that's good. He might need, maybe he'll need ongoing treatments. I mean, it's certainly ongoing lifestyle change for his vascular system, et cetera. Do you see any particular patterns that differentiate like mold or Lyme or are they just all similar things that are dysfunctioning in different ways? No, no, there are definite patterns. And so, for example, in the mold situation, for example, you'll see a similar picture to what I just showed you, a broad diffuse instability in the cortical areas, a broad and diffuse, really. It won't be localized because it's dynamic. And you can't really, as you know, you can't really treat. You can do everything, but you're not going to get someone better if they're in a moldy environment. That's not happening. I'm going to give you a question. I don't know the terms that was like toxic encephalopathy. Is that a good term? I think that's a very good term. So you have to have the functional medicine. You have to have that. And you need a lot of modalities. And you need the neurofeedback in this guy that I just showed you was critical. It was very helpful. What about infections? Are they more localized, say, Bartonella versus Lyme versus are they more? Yes, they're more localized. So here's another quick, interesting case for you. This is a 24-year-old sweetheart of a girl, an African-American girl who wants to own her own professional firm. And she kept straight As and doing great. And then, boom, she ends up in a psychiatric hospital like how many times? Five times. And so she treated for Lyme, not by me. This was all done before me. Treated for Lyme relapsed. Treated for Lyme relapsed. Hospitalization again. The treatments don't stick. So we did the QEG. And we see this pattern, this red pattern, localized in the left frontal temporal area. The site of the infection, which is probably because she had a traumatic brain injury there when she was younger. So now, and she has seizures, which weren't picked up, but we picked them up. So we're treating the seizures with clonazepam and trying to get around ketogenic diet. And so we could get rid of the clonazepam. So her seizures are gone. She's doing better. And then we're treating her gut because she has SIBO. And then she's got all kinds of, she's got a lot of SNPs in her NR3C1 and FKBP5. So she has adrenal problems transmitting the cortisol signal to the nucleus. She's got most of those genes, our variants. And she, of course, consistent with that, has a history of being unable to fight infections and getting sick easily. So I have to treat the gut. Then I have to treat the adrenals. And then when I've got the adrenal treated, I'm gonna treat her with a couple of antibiotics that'll go inside the brain. And then we're gonna do, if we need to, neurofeedback or laser or whatever. So I think what they're calling schizophrenia is not schizophrenia. It's an infectious cause, causing seizures and cognitive instability. Absolutely, I see that all the time. And one thing you mentioned that I think is true, and I wanna see if you agree. Say you have a car accident with a neck injury or a low back issue or a brain trauma. I always see the volume and co-infections tend to go to the areas where you've had previous injury. And I'm assuming in the brain, it could be same thing. So you've had a concussion from a sports injury. You might have more activity of that infection in that injury, is that correct? 100%, yeah, 100%. Wow. And would you always see asymmetric kinds of findings more with trauma versus like this global effect? So yeah, trauma, brain injury, for example, you'll see a localized or you'll see a co-contracoup pattern. So you might see something in the left, you know, well, I'm pointing to my right front, the left occipital kind of thing, you know what I mean? So this QEG is something that every psychiatrist should learn to do. Oh, I could not agree more. And we need you to train. I wanna talk just briefly about hyperbaric and let's see, there was something else. This is so fast. Yeah, let's talk just a little bit about when would you use hyperbaric? What have you seen it useful for? What kinds of, how would you know that's a good idea to use? Yeah, so hyperbaric oxygen, I'm gonna say in general for brain problems, generally speaking, it's a really good, right? So it's obviously really helpful for traumatic brain injury, right? It's really helpful strangely enough with PTSD, right? There's a group in Israel, you've probably heard of them. They're using it, hyperbaric oxygen to treat PTSD. And what happens is when you go into the chamber, you have your sessions, you start having memories and you process your memories. And the summary- You have to have help there to help like you facilitate a little bit. You have to have somebody. It may not happen immediately, but you know, in the days after, because the brain is functioning better, right? I'm obviously in a vascular situation. I've used it in Alzheimer's disease. You know, I'm using it in someone who has Lewy body dementia, but I'm not saying I'm having success because she's not out of the mold. We can't get her into ketosis. You know, her inflammatory markers are still high. I'm seeing with the laser, we did laser and I'm seeing the connectivity improving probably about 30%, but it's not translating to clinical improvement because there are other factors. You know, you have to be out of the mold. You have to, you know- Some of these are, like you said, ALS and those can be- But the hyperbaric seems to be helpful in those situations. I'm curious. I just talked, Richie Horowitz had mentioned that with obesity, that would be the one caution. I'm wondering if you've seen that with, like, if there's any other contraindications to a hyperbaric? I haven't used it in anyone with babesia. I don't know if it's a contraindication. I mean, maybe- I don't either, I'm just wondering. Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, the contraindications are pneumothorax. For example, you wouldn't want to use it if someone's had a pneumothorax in the last year. If they're having sinus infections, they can't clear their nose. Some people who have Lyme, for example, will go in the hyperbaric and they will feel worse. They'll have a heart's reaction for several sessions. So, you know, maybe go slow with that. But, and obviously with this brain mass or something like that, that's not a great idea. And typically with hyperbaric, what number of sessions or what would they be looking at to actually get a clinical outcome? So it depends on the situation. If you're a young person, we like to use the hyperbaric with the neurofeedback. And if you're a young person, you do 40 H-bots hyperbaric oxygen therapy with the neurofeedback. That's beautiful. It seems to accelerate the progress. If you're someone with a dementia or early dementia, you're gonna need probably 100 or 120 treatments and you might need to use it ongoing or three times a week or four times a week. Older people obviously need more, younger people need less. I do it myself three times a week. Because it does good things. It makes stem cells, it does a lot of good things. It's a good anti-inflammatory, et cetera. This is so exciting. And then I've had a lot of questions on the feed about, is this permanent? Is this, I'm assuming like you mentioned, some of these dementias and things that are progressive, they're gonna need some ongoing maintenance and treatments. They're not gonna just get better. But I'm assuming some of your like 20-somethings, they actually start to see reversal and it may be fairly permanent. Would you say? Yes, yes, yes. So I've just finished treating a woman who's 30 and she with severe depression, most people would call her borderline personality, not anymore. She's done everything I've asked and she did about I think 16 laser treatments and neurofeedback and she's doing well. Now she's working through her trauma. Yeah. Cause she has PTSD from bullying, et cetera. And so, and then you have to redevelop your personality because your conception of who you are, your character needs work at that point, right? Yeah, because we identify with these things. I've done a lot of personal work in the last several years, especially the last year. And I realized, wow, I'm actually not that same person, but your mind still thinks of yourself that way. So, I do, yeah, right. So that's very important work, but you know, so yes, she's not gonna need more laser treatments. I don't think. Wow. Well, Bob, this is so, you're right, it is mind blowing. I am so delighted. This has been one of my favorite interviews and I hope we can do more. Where can people find you? What resource? I wanna make sure and mention your books. I'll put links to your books website. Tell us a little bit about where else can they find more information about you? Well, as you could go to our website, it's wholepsychiatry.com, like Whole Foods, only Whole Psychiatry. And I came up with it before they did. I would. Right? But it's easy to remember at WHLE, wholepsychiatry.com. And there's a contact form. There's a lot of resources on the page. I've done radio shows back when there was such a thing as radio show. And in this video, there's a lot of information. You have to dig a little bit, but there's a lot of videos, et cetera. And people can contact me. Perfect. Yeah, and again, the practitioners will be listening to this as well. So if you're a practitioner and you hear this and you wanna get in contact for training or information or fund, Bob, I'm sure he would be happy to take some investments in funding because I love this. If I had extra funds, I would. You know what my dream is, Jill, my dream is my dream. My dream is to have a small hospital where we can take these patients who are really ill, the mild cognitive impairment, they can't pull this off outside the hospital very well, bring them into the hospital in a wonderful environment, do the functional medicine, train them, teach them, exercise them, teach the family, do the neurofeed, do the laser, do the age, whatever it is, the PMF, whatever it is you gotta do. And then after a few months, two, three months, they go out into the world in a much, much, much better. That's my dream. I'm putting it out. I love it, Bob. And I'm gonna just plant a little seed here publicly. I've been in Switzerland two years. I didn't go this year, but to a Swiss fountain clinic that was amazing to get away. And while I was there last year, I had this real download kind of a spiritual inspiration of where someday I went ahead. It's exactly what you're describing, a place for people to come where the food is taking care of for them. They can sleep and stay there. They're taking care of, and they've got all the therapies, all the access, and they have functional medicine, they have QEGs, they have HBOT, they have all of this stuff, and people like you and I trying to really help nurture. Oh, that'd be awesome though. So let's just put that intention out because I think I really believe it'll happen. Yes, I'm working on it, I'm working on it. I have to tell you one last time, I have a patient, it's a friend of the family, so I'm working with the physician's amount sign. Do you know that they're giving her TPN, she's unconscious, 128 grams of sugar a day. And they're expecting her to recover. Now they of course have to put her on the insulin. So the insanity, the insanity in the hospitals you know they're killing you with one hand and helping you with the other. Yeah, that's my dream, the hospital. Well let's stay in touch and I'm just manifesting that the right investors and people that see the value will come and help us out Bob because we have the passion and the dream and I think it'll all happen in the right time but I believe, I saw a vision as I was walking up to Swiss mountain and I literally wept because I thought, who am I to be involved in this? I'm just a little peon but I know that I believe big dreams and sometimes I see that happen and so let's put it out there. Let's put it out there, I'm with you, I'm with you. Awesome, what a great time. Thank you for your time today. Thank you for inspiring us and I hope you have a great, you're welcome. I really appreciate Jill, I appreciate, first of all I appreciate all your great work and I just love your teaching and your lecturing and how you're moving the field forward. It's just fabulous, fabulous, fabulous, keep it up. And I really appreciate the opportunity to put this out there because it's important. It really is and we will do it again. Great.