 Hello and welcome to this special CUBE conversation here in the Palo Alto CUBE studios. I'm John Furrier, host of theCUBE, the topic today is driving business and software agility with Tanzu by Broadcom. And of course we have Pranima Padmanaban who's the VP and GM of the VMware Tanzu Division of Broadcom. Ryan Morgan, Senior Director of Engineering VMware Tanzu Broadcom. Thanks for coming on theCUBE for this fireside chat to get all the data he was going on. Great to be here. Last time we saw each other here on theCUBE here and also explore last year a lot going on. We also saw the Broadcom VMware Combination Tanzu Division that you're running is a separate division. So I have to ask you, what's going on with Tanzu? Help us understand the lay of the land because Broadcom has simplified things in a very, I won't say complex VMware, but an existing, pre-existing VMware environment. A lot of things have come together, bundled in. It's kind of a little bit confusing at least from my standpoint, to help clarify what's going on with the Tanzu Division and how that act to help speed up things and clarify it all. Sure, sure. And when last we talked, of course, the acquisition was not done and there was rumors, a strife about what would happen and so on. So now that we have passed the acquisition, essentially Hock and what Broadcom has done is taken VMware's many divisions and converts them down to four main divisions. The one division is what we call the VMware Cloud Foundation Division, basically taking vSphere NSX vSAN and the management portfolio and putting it together as a private cloud offering. The second division, and each of these four divisions are independent divisions. The second division is Tanzu and the whole, it's called the Tanzu Division and the fundamental role of Tanzu Division is to make sure that we focus on giving the industry an app platform to accelerate app delivery, right? Tanzu is the app platform. We also have an advanced networking division about networking and security and an edge division, right? Now the nice thing about the way these divisions are formulated is they are truly fully contained. So it's not just product and engineering but also marketing and sales and everything together within the division. And the singular focus of Tanzu Division is how do we enable enterprises get business agility by helping them develop software faster? Okay, so VCF is the main, kind of the crown jewels of VM where some would say in terms of the old school, vSphere, vSAN, you mentioned a few of them. That's like the core, a lot of installed products. Tanzu, we've been covering with, Spring is in there too, right? You got Spring. So what's in the Tanzu? What is in the portfolio? Unpacked Tanzu, what does it mean for customers in Tanzu? Yeah, so what is in Tanzu and what are the components, right? So the good thing is pretty much what was in Tanzu stays, right? It hasn't fundamentally changed. It's all about the app platform focus. So within the Tanzu division, we have got the Cloud Foundry-based Tanzu application service. Still very critical piece. We have got the Kubernetes-based stack, which is what we call Tanzu application platform and associated with it are Kubernetes mission control and service mesh and all the Kubernetes management stack and the app platform stack. And at the heart of it, we also have our Spring portfolio enterprise Spring open source contributions being very key there. So that set, you would think of it as a Tanzu set of run times that are part of the Tanzu platform. And then of course, you can't just have a platform by itself, right? So you also have two additional product areas, data, because you can't build application without data. So Tanzu data, both our proprietary focus data sources such as Green Plum and Gemfire, as well as things like RabbitMQ, MySQL, Postgres, that forms Tanzu data. And in fact, that data business is really doing very well. And then Tanzu intelligence. Tanzu intelligence is our multi-cloud management portfolio but focused on delivering application management, cost performance and security. So Tanzu cloud health is in that. Tanzu observability, and then our security components for application. So the idea is with the portfolio, it's a very simple portfolio, you have platform, data and intelligence. And the idea is you build your applications on the platform, you attach your data sources and you make sure they are managed on all the time. So the way we summarize it, and this is not new, we have really, it stays focused, is we help our customers develop, operate and optimize their applications and get them out to any environment, any cloud. It's interesting because, I hear you saying this now, it can make sense. So you got the VMware VCF, VMware Cloud Foundation, that's the core platform. Developers wanna operate their apps on multiple environments. That's where, I think, is that where Tanzu comes in? You're independent of where they run the apps, right? So how should that enterprise thing about Tanzu? I got VCF, when does Tanzu fit in? I mean, it's very simple. Think of VCF as your private cloud, just like you've got AWS, Azure, GCP, you've got a private cloud, equivalent to the public clouds. VCF will give you an IaaS dial tool. It gives you compute network storage and an IaaS dial tool. Now, it is the same question that we've always asked. What comes between the developer and a private or a public cloud to make the developer consumption easy? So the developer doesn't want to be instantiating VMs, networks, and so on. What they want to do is, they want to just say, hey, here's my code, build it, create a container, sign it, secure it, and deploy it at scale for me, based on my intent. So that is the role of an application platform. And it is the same role that Cloud Foundry and with our IaaS we have played in the past on top of VMs. And we are doing the same thing on top of Kubernetes. And whether it's private cloud or public cloud is a material. So think of VCF as giving you the substrate that is a code into cloud. And then on app platforms, sit on top of cloud, giving you that developer simplicity and developer abstraction. So app platform gives you three things. One, it gives you that simple set of intent-based commands for a developer. I've built my code, great. Build it into a container, secure it, bind all these data services and deploy it in high availability. That's what a developer wants to say. They don't want to say give me a EC2 instance or give me a network instance and connect it this way and so on. So that's what an app platform does at number one. It gives you that developer simplicity. The second one is, it allows you to curate a set of good patterns. And this is where more things like Spring comes in. So you want to see what are your enterprise patterns and creates that golden patch to production, right? You don't do that within a code cloud infrastructure. You're saying, hey, my golden patch to production involves the following testing, the following scanning, the following signing. So you stitch all of that together and you do that consistently across multiple platforms. And finally, it gives you that operator leverage, right? There is this new term called platform engineering. You and I have talked about it, right? Yeah, exactly. What does a platform engineer do? They are sitting on top of clouds, but they are curating that set of capabilities that the developers can use directly. And imagine if you can truly give operator to developer or operator to app ratio of one is to 1,000 or one is to 500. That is the goal of a platform. I think it's interesting. The modern IT, we've talked about this before and Ryan, I'd love to give you a take on where the platform goes next and you guys both weigh in on this because the original DevOps ethos was, DevOps are all one thing, you got the cloud is all great. Now you go into modern IT where you have distributed computing as the problem statement, which is what we're seeing, certainly with all those AI conversations we were just at NVIDIA's GTC, we heard Broadcom's semiconductor announcements and scale out, scale up, game is happening across all environments. I think we touched on that last time. That's distributed computing. So you still got to develop, you got to operate and optimize for the next gen platform and apps. So as that evolves, which is right in line with what we're talking about now, the game is still the same, but it's changing a little bit. So what's next in Tanzu? How do I look at this? Because I'm in the project, I get it. I got the substrate, I got DevOps, next level happening. Tanzu's perfect fit for the app in spring and the tools you have with Cloud Foundry. What's next on the platform? What are we seeing from customers as they look at this? Okay, I'm getting the piece parts. What's next with the platform? I mean, obviously AI helps the platform engineering equation, certainly from a skill standpoint, from an optimization, you're starting to see a lot more. Platform engineering just came back from Cloud Native, Con, KubeCon, from Paris. The largest event in their history in Europe, which means North America will probably be bigger. So more developer action. Yeah. And you're- I thought I was there. KubeCon. That was the cube, yeah. So again, this is a sign and then, you know, got news, Databricks just beat Meta, Ilama this morning, we heard all that news. Open source and developer actionist at an all-time high right now. Yeah. What's next with Tanzu? Maybe I'll take a quick cut and then I really want Ryan for you to weigh in. So you brought up KubeCon. I was there. Amazing action, right? The level of innovation that is happening and especially in the Kubernetes space, whether it is AI or even outside of AI, right? But one thing that you see, which was very clear is, you have so many new projects and so much innovation. When I started talking to enterprises, they're saying, which one do I pick? How do I stitch it together? Ultimately, I have to stitch the best mesh capability with the best management capability with the best registry capability with the best API gateway. How do I stitch all of it together? And that is the evolution of the platform. And what Cloud Foundry did on top of VMs to give a container-based infrastructure, really that same set has to happen on Kubernetes. In fact, that is what was a big revelation for me, which is imagine in order to unleash the power that is captured in all these projects of Kubernetes, somebody has to still put it together. And that is what Tanzu is focusing on. That's the evolution of the platform, which is, look DevOps is not just about CICD pipelines. Platform engineering as a team subsumes all of that. It says that, look, across multiple clouds and multiple environments, how do I bring all these pieces together, stitch them together, and give developers some simple interfaces to deploy pipelines and code and make them consistent? You know, Pranima, you know, before Ryan weighs in, I just wanna add to that. What's interesting, I was talking with Rob Streche, our CUBE research analyst, Savannah Peterson and Dustin Kirkland, our CUBE contributor about KubeCon. Kubernetes is kind of getting boring, as they say. And that's a good thing. Like Linux is boring, but there's no show for Linux, but Linux enabled a lot of stuff around it. So Kubernetes is turning into the Linux of cloud native. Yes, that's a good one. And so you're starting to see developers starting to, okay, now I need end to end outcomes. So you're starting to get into the world we've been riffing on. I have to start thinking about end to end where I got VCF as one component, I might have something else over here. I gotta accelerate this, I don't have time to skill up, I need automation, I need AI. So this is now the future, this is now the new normal. Ryan, what's the engineering view here? Because you gotta look at this as a tailwind saying, hmm, if we can bring some more abstraction and intelligence to the table with data and cloud native services, that's a run opportunity, a run time optimization opportunity. Yeah, this is what we've seen within the screen portfolio over the past 20 years is staying ahead of those technologies and providing abstractions that allow developers to have choice, right? So one of the big things we're working on now is Spring AI. It's one of the most exciting projects, probably since Spring Cloud. And what we see is every customer now has an AI initiative. They have developers, they have a lot of built-in expertise around Java. And now we have these LLMs that have API access and that is a perfect recipe for allowing those Spring developers to access those in an abstracted way, right? So you can make choices, maybe you want to change your model, maybe you want to change your clients. Spring allows you to do that very seamlessly and very quickly. And we're seeing a lot of traction within the enterprise. Talk about Spring AI real quick, I love this. So you launched it, it's not yet GA on that coming out or is it, can you share some of the community response, status of Spring AI and some of the community response you've seen. Right, so we have abstractions now over most of the models that are out there we have abstractions over the clients as well, vector stores as well. We're getting a lot of input from the community as well just adding additional capabilities. And we do plan to have a GA in May. So the 1.0 will be in mid-May, right before the Spring AIO conference in Barcelona. So how to ask. And by the way, on talking about Spring right again as I mentioned, everything that we do on Zoom platform, heart of it is Spring. We are polyglot, platform. Just like we are multi-glot, we are polyglot but we are, Tanzu is the best place to run Spring apps. And one example, for example, is that as we are doing community, driving community innovation on Spring AI, already in our Tanzu platform, the Spring AI tiles are available. We have customers experimenting on it. We have customers already trying it out. And what is remarkable about this is a lot of apps are written in Java in Spring. And what Spring AI does is brings the power of AI ML, which tends to be more of a Python type of world, into Java. I saw a stat that almost 50% of enterprise workloads are Spring. Is that kind of accurate? I mean, is that because Java, I mean, I used to do when Java beans came out was the hottest thing, everyone loved it, you know, many decades ago. There's still legacy of Java everywhere. What's the, can you guys share any stats on what the uptake on the workloads are for Java and Spring? It is amazing. I just continue to be amazed by the power of the Spring community. It is already a very large community and still over the last five years, it has been growing 50% year over year. Can you imagine that? So that is the number of apps being created continuously on Spring. So the, and the interesting thing is it is not just apps that might be, these are all mainstream apps that are highly mission critical. People are running their healthcare systems, their financial trading systems, right? The government's agencies are running their important applications on top of it. So very mission critical apps being run on Spring and we don't see any slowdown. And we believe it is because of the way Spring interacts with the ecosystem and community, right? The community has made sure that there are plugins to everything out there. And so as you go to cloud and as you adopt cloud native practices, Spring already puts you in the right path. Yeah, Java is never going to go away. I was just talking with some friends, daughter who she's in the computer science program with GTC Nvidia's event. And she's like, I'm learning Assembler and C. I'm like, oh really cool. So then she was excited about Assembler. Well, that's low level. I mean, you can't get any better than that. So as you, and then as you have these abstractions and you're getting down to the machine level, enterprises are kind of going back to the systems revolution. We've been talking a lot about on the cube that with AI, it's a systems construct going on large scale systems. That's where you see the custom chips developing a lot of action happening around these new systems. How does Spring fit into that business model of Tanzu knowing that there's now a systems revolution going on where people are building new large scale distributed systems both scale out and scale up. And I'll maybe ask Ryan to also comment on it. But as I said, again, from a business model perspective, Tanzu is the best place to run Spring. Spring innovation as Ryan was talking about continues, but then Tanzu as a platform connects, right, that Spring layer to the underlying infrastructure layer. So with, for example, with VCF, now you know we are investing, we talked about our joint partnership with NVIDIA, we are doing GPU virtualization, but how do you bring that power of all of that to the application layer? And so the combination of VCF and Tanzu allow you to do that. So the systems innovation that is happening in the underlying layers ultimately have to be represented and made available to the application stack. And that is where the Tanzu play is. By the way, performance comes in big time. As more AI comes in, you're gonna see more performance, more capability. Performance, utilization, so it is the full gamut, right? How do you, first of all, curate your applications and it's not just greenfield applications that need AI. The true power is a lot of brownfield applications that are run in Spring and Java. How do you bring the power of AIML? I already, let's say, have an app. How do I add a chat interface for my customers with AI? In order to do that, I have to do it within the app. So bringing the power of AIML innovation into Java is one of the big things we're doing with Spring. The second thing we're doing is by making it available on Tanzu platform. We're making sure that it runs in a highly-performant way. It runs in a way that it's truly utilizing the underlying infrastructure very well. As you know, GPUs are very critical and they are not available in large scale. So you wanna utilize everything that you get. You know, Ryan, we pointed out in our research that the two ways people are using AI in the enterprise today is one, new applications that they're building on top of the systems that they're building and reusing existing tools and data that they already have on other environments. That's kind of like data exhaust. It's kind of out there and not really being leveraged enough or not leveraged at all, but now with AI and new techniques, you can harness that data and spin that into gold. So the classic data exhaust turns into opportunity for the customers. This is new. This is a new opportunity to your point about these opportunities with AI and this is exciting. It's one of those things that people are talking about. Yeah. Maybe to add to Pernima's comments earlier, just the performance aspects, right? So one of our advantages too is just around Java. Java has never innovated faster. I think that the Java community has heard the feedback that needs to be more performant, needs to have better efficiencies. So those have been built into the JVM and we've done a lot of work to expose that to spring users in a way that is almost transparent, right? So today you can take an application, port it to the upcoming spring boot 3.3 release and take advantage of things like app CDS out of the box. You don't need to do anything. That'll get you anywhere from a 50 to 100% increase in your startup times. So all these things are just kind of things we just try to bubble up to our users and it's primarily, I think, one of the reasons why people continue to choose spring when they are developing new apps. A business model success formula that's been tried and true over the years is simple, easy to use, not too many steps to get things done. I mean, Java, very powerful language. Honestly, almost 50% of the workloads running on Java and AI's are coming around the corner. I guess, okay, I'm sold on this. I'm a customer. Let's pretend I'm a customer. I'm sold on the concept. I have this huge opportunity with AI. The systems is distributed computing. I got the old VM where, okay, now everything's simplified. I need to enable new capability. I'm thinking about VMWare 2.0 in my new environment. Okay, everything's consolidated. There's new capabilities. I got devs hungry to code. What do I do? What's next? I mean, that is where the power of dot com simplicity comes in, right? If you remember in the past with VMWare, we had an alphabet soup of products and then we would say, hey, for networking use NSX, use vSphere, vSan, et cetera. And then by the way, for Tanzu, for Kubernetes use TKG, for something else use mission control and so on. Now what we would come and say is that, look, you've got your VMWare real estate already, rather than running it as disparate set, convert it into a private cloud with VCF. So it's a single solution VCF that converts it into a private cloud. And what a private cloud means is, not only do your existing applications run easily and can be updated easily, but you can expose that consistent interface out to your application teams. Then you say, okay, great, I've got this private cloud and I've got this nice APIs for provisioning. But then how do I go from writing code in some Java application to actually getting it out? And here's a simple example. Let us say you're building an application. You write your core business logic in Java. But you need all the paraphernalia around it, right? I wanna know how should I log this? How should I do logging? By the way, how should I do my security policies? How should I attach my data? How should I connect to an ML pipeline if I'm doing an AI ML? How do I bring my data for embeddings in it, right? How do I connect to maybe external services that I have? Now, you can say, hey, just go ahead and write APIs and write scripts for all of that. Or you can say, hey, application platform comes in play. So now you've got a single thing called BCF that converts your private environment to a cloud, and then a single thing called Hanzo platform that layers on top of BCF and says, hey, I'm gonna help you from the time you've finished your writing your business logic, right? Not only will I help you write that business logic with IDE integration so that you understand what is the security issues, what is the performance issues. But once the code is written, we will take it from there and we have something which is powerful in the Spring community also called build packs. We will do the job of identifying all the packages, all the dependencies, and with a single click convert your code into a container, make sure it's secured and signed. And then you just tell us the intent. A developer may say, I want high availability. I want to, by the way, attach a data source which is Postgres. I want to also be able to encrypt all my data. Great, just say those three things and we will take care of everything else. So it sounds like VMware just said, okay, here's everything. And you can turn on something, turn the lights on. You want some Tanzu? Put the Tanzu, it's available for you. VMware is saying, hey, let us go with outcomes rather than products. So the first outcome is I want my private infrastructure to behave like a cloud. Great, BCF. Got the estate. The second outcome is I want a developer to just focus on building the app and with a single click based on intent deploy anywhere, comes Tanzu. So it's really two distinct outcomes. And rather than thinking about peace parts and how do you put it all together, you're focused on outcomes. And so connecting the dots, Broadcom makes VMware makes more money if people are doing more outcomes. Exactly. And customers do better. That is the most important thing. Customers, instead of spending time, let us say instead of having, this was the interesting fact. I was talking to a lot of people at KubeCon and their size of the infrastructure teams and the Kubernetes teams exploded. One company has a 70 to 100% team working on Kubernetes infrastructure. So our value proposition to the market is get the best, latest and greatest technology, but let us stitch it together for you so that you can focus on building your apps, building your business apps, right? Not building infrastructure. So Broadcom has a software division, all this capability, turn on what you need for your outcome. Developers got a space to work with the app platform and the rest is just the outcomes. Yes. And the outcome being, hey, if it used to take me four months or six months to release software, can I release it in a week? And that we have consistently driven those outcomes with our customers. And where it becomes interesting with the spring conversation that we are having is, as I already said, we want Tanzu to be the best place to run spring, but we are also making spring, we're continuing to make spring more applicable to enterprise environments by doing enterprise class capabilities, like FIPS encryption, like more acceleration. And you'll see more from us on that. We are also helping our, Broadcom is also helping our customers who have invested in spring, but cannot upgrade fast enough to Java with things like long-term support and support for these commercial features. Well, super exciting and excellent to unpack that, Pranima and Ryan, great stuff. We'll be exploring this year again, our 14th year with theCUBE, covering VMware this year in new chapter with the Broadcom finalizing the acquisition. What's next for Tanzu in the next few months? What's on the agenda? What's on the plans? Give us a highlight. Put a plug in for what's going on in Tanzu news. Eventually you're going to be out. Obviously we'll see at Kupkan, North America. theCUBE will be there as well. So Kupkan as well as Explorer. What's next, what's happening? What's some news? Give some highlight. We'll be at Google next. And you'll see a big presence from spring. And of course you just saw our virtual event where we launched the Tanzu portfolio and the simplified Tanzu portfolio. And you'll continue to see more announcements from us on simplification. Single common set of simple SKUs that customers can use an easy way for partners to work with us both on collaboration in reselling but also delivering services. And continued steady stream of innovation around the areas that I talked about. Ryan, spring, what's next going on there? Any exciting things happening in your world? We have some big releases in May. Spring Boot 3.3 will be out. Introducing a variety of features around performance and scalability. The app CDS thing is a big piece of that. Also looking at things like Pasky's, right? You've seen that these new technologies, we wanna bring that and make it easier for developers to use them. And then lastly, we have a big presence at Explorer this year. We're gonna have a keynote there as well. Looking forward to that. And Ryan, we are doing spring one or the spring session there, right? Yes, yep. Yeah, it was a big success last year on day zero. Day zero, exactly. Huge community, we reported on that. And can you success on seeing massive uptake, congratulations. Thanks for coming on. Final point to you, Pranina, since we're gonna end here with you. Give me the elevator pitch on Tanzu division. I'm the customer riding up the elevator together. What's the pitch? Very simple. You are trying to drive business agility, right? Market is moving very fast and the way you drive business agility is by writing software. Imagine instead of releasing software four times a year, you could do it daily or multiple times a day. That is the power Tanzu puts in your hand. It allows you to look at all the infrastructure, all the innovation. We tie it together and convert it to a simple set of capabilities that you can use to deliver your applications anywhere. Thanks for coming on to this fireside chat. Thanks for unpacking and the update on Tanzu. Ryan, thanks for coming on. Yeah, thank you. Okay, we have the leader of the Tanzu division of VMware Broadcom here inside theCUBE, unpacking it all. The business model, the growth strategy, how spring fits in, what's coming up next. All here in theCUBE, I'm John Furrier, your host. Thanks for watching.