 I think we met one time years ago at Def Con and you had a segway and I remember you were the first person I ever saw or met with a segway. So it immediately made me think, aha, that person's connected. Well, a segway is technology and it was such a huge part of my life. You know, we'd carry them in our cars. So wherever we went, like Las Vegas, Def Con, have the segways right around. It was such a pleasant, did an incredibly great thing for those of us who wrote them. It was green before green was the thing. Yeah, it was different. But to me it was just because it was so different. Somebody had actually taken their brain and some physics calculations and it wasn't so much the greenness. I mean, if you had a big gas engine, I don't think I'd have enjoyed it as much. No, it was just nice and smooth. Yeah, I remember the gyroscopes on those were the magical hack, figuring out how to downsize those gyroscopes. Well, it was really incredible to just, it's always under you, you don't worry. Well, we saw you at Def Con zooming around swimming pools and you seemed pretty confident. And so that was pretty encouraging. Yeah, what I remember from Def Con is less that, I don't even remember having it there, but just running into people, talking to people, people that I met, and they were my kind of people because of what Def Con is about. And it's almost like to me, Def Con almost sometimes means defeat contracts. We don't follow the rules, bad rules aren't meant for us. Well, we didn't know how to throw conferences, so we invented it up along the way and we ended up with our own thing, sort of lack of rules, right? That was something older people did. I like people that, a lot of people, especially a lot of maybe musicians that I know, I love the people that just sort of went around and the rules didn't matter that much to them. They just took risky lives doing the sorts of things that you make movies about. What's your most proud of engineering or hack, I should say, that you're most proud of? And if you had to do one over again or you had to fix something you screwed up, what would it be? It's kind of like Bob Dylan that I mentioned. I mean, I had some magic pouring out of my brain for about 10 years of my life and I go back and look, where did I, why would I ever think of doing these things that were so different, so advanced? And so there's way too many stories, but one of them is how I was designing Breakout for Atari and four days and nights, no sleep and your head wanders when you're not sleeping. This is Atari, Atari the game company, Atari Computer. Atari, the Atari computers came from Atari. They were starting the arcade game industry. It did not exist. There were no arcade games until Atari with Pong and then a few others. And I was designing Breakout right down there and four days at night. Nobody could design a game in that short of time because it's a thousand wires on a hundred chips hooking things up to get signals going just right. I spent four days up in a row and we actually completed it. Steve Jobs and I, it was all my design. But while I was there, my head wanders when you're sleeping, going to sleep. It's some of the best time to get creative thoughts or waking up and they're in your head. And I thought of, wouldn't it be great if these arcade games were color someday? It was the first time ever that arcade games were color and even more importantly, I said, wait, I'm taking numbers out of a computer. Why don't I make, rather than a wire going off to a digital display, why don't I just have the display get some of the data that's being scanned in the memory of the computer? The computer is the arcade game. So the computer was the arcade game and that meant it was software. Also Dial-A-Joke, can't forget Dial-A-Joke. I started that all on my own and I ran it. You phone a number and you get a joke. Now I go back to the blue boxes. We're talking about out-of-the-box thinking. You press a button, one, two, three, four, five, and you've got to create a couple of tones. Baby people like touch tones. And so when you press the button, it put out all these lines to the chips telling it the inputs, which number to divide by to get the tone you want. And there were two tones, all these things. And I had a little array in there. And then what occurred to me is inside the chips actually have to put out a little bit of, like if electrons are going in, a little bit of positive currents coming out, a tiny bit out of the inputs. So the inputs are also outputs. And I fed them back into the touch, all the keys, that came out one common thing that was supposed to be grounded. Meaning when you push the buttons, it'll decide which of the lines will get grounded on those chips that are making the tones. Only instead of grounding it, I actually fed it into a two transistor circuit called a Darlington amplifier, amplifies it hugely, and it provided the power that turned the chips on. And you'd say, how do the chips supply a signal to turn themselves on through all this mechanism? And it was really, but I knew how the chips worked inside analog, and so I was able to accomplish that. That was another really great out of the box. This hacker's mindset of you not only used the technology, you understood the technology so well, you could make the technology do things it wasn't ever intended. And that's what's really inspiring for me and for hackers. It's sort of like the manufacturer says, no, you can't do color, and you say, no, wait a minute, I bet I can do color. That's right, the rules don't apply if you can do it better. Right.