 Yes, why everybody, wherever you are, a very warm welcome to our conference, Working Time Reduction and Climate Crisis. Due to the Corona crisis, we are meeting in this online format and not in the rooms of A2E of the European Trade Unions Institute in Brussels as originally planned. I am Margarita Steinrucke from the Working Group Arbeit fair Teilen of Attack Germany. Together with Adrien Tussaud from Roosevelt, Aidan Harper from the New Economics Foundation and others, we are coordinating the European Network for the Fair Sharing of Working Time that is organizer of this conference. The Rosa Luxembourg Foundation Brussels is supporting us very generously. Without its support, the network could not exist. Many thanks. Also many thanks to the A2E for its support for this conference. This network has the goal to connect organizations, initiatives and persons from science, politics, red unions, social movements and others around the question, what's going on with working time reduction in Europe and how can we better coordinate and promote these trials. It began to work in 2013 with a big conference in Strasbourg and is organizing every second year a conference for this behalf. We are proud to say that the network has in the meanwhile around 60 members from 15 European countries. The youngest is Iceland. This year we want to exchange and discuss about the contribution which working time reduction can make to fight the climate change. At the moment somewhat covered by the corona crisis, the climate crisis is the deepest crisis and the most urgent to fight for the whole mankind. And studies like the one our member Philippe Frei made for the Autonomy Institute. It's called the ecological limits of working time show that when we want to reach the 1.5 degree goal of Paris, we have to reduce our working time to around 10 hours per week. So working time reduction is a crucial and constitutional part of the fight against the climate crisis. But also for the just transition in all the climate destroying industry, we need a strong working time reduction to save, respectively give back jobs to the workers who will lose their old ones. Here the trade unions are specially demanded as they are the main actor in the field of working time reduction. The demand of the eight hours day was founding the 1st of May as Labor Day. At the moment we have a running big experiment with working time reduction within the corona crisis. The so-called Kurzarbeit or short time work is a working time reduction for saving workplaces already successful in the finance crisis 2009. But the relationship of trade unions to the climate issue and the climate movement is not a simple one. Often the conservation of jobs at any price for the concrete workers is nearer than the long time perspective for the whole mankind. There are no jobs on a dead planet is true but not easy to bring in the head of people with concrete fear for their existence. But there are trade unions that are trying to bring together these two questions. I'm very glad to welcome Tofi Yanicka from Iggy Metall, which has fought successfully for working time reduction in 2018 and made the social ecological transformation to its main issue for the next years. And also, for example, Frans Sweeney from the trade union for energy democracy. He will join us tomorrow. The TUED is a worldwide network of trade unions which explicitly fight for the workers and the climate or environment perspective. The trade unions are a very important player for the working time reduction also in relation to the fight against the climate crisis. But without the huge commitment of all the other movements, climate movements like Fridays for Future, social movements like Attack and Rizzo Roosevelt, women's movements, movements of unemployed, of people in science, politics and churches and many others, they will not succeed in the fight for working time reduction. So we have here in this conference a lot of other wonderful speakers from science, from politics and social movements and other trade unions I welcome hereby. Many thanks for your commitment and your contributions. I wish us an interesting and productive conference and pass the word now to Andreas Thompson, head of the Rosa Luxemburg Foundation Brussels, and to Philippe Pochet, director of Etui for a welcome address. And afterwards to my colleague, Andrea, who will explain us the agenda and the proceeding. So Andrea, it's your turn. Thank you. Thank you very much indeed. It's a real pleasure to have this conference here and to continue with the cooperation with the network even now if this has to be unfortunately digital and I'm really hoping that we can meet you and we can meet again maybe next year, maybe then actually in Brussels and in presence. So this is the whole thing is about work time reduction. So I believe a welcoming address should be quite brief and then I will try to do this as brief as possible. But still I want to stress how important the cooperation and the whole issue for us in Brussels and for Rosa Luxemburg Foundation is. I said we might meet again next year in Brussels or somewhere else, but still we don't know how the crisis we are living in now will develop further and it's not only obviously a medical crisis. It is a severe economical crisis. It is a social crisis. And this is a crisis which is now framing everything literally everything we are doing in politics and developing progressive and leftist concept. So it will also shape discussions on the question of work time reduction. It will of course also shape discussions on Green New Deal or everything else. Since this crisis now frames everything, it is more much more important to further develop progressive ideas and concepts like work time reduction. And I'm actually not one of them saying the crisis now, this kind of crisis now creates large opportunities and chances for the left. It is as always, it is a question of the relation of powers and it is a question of the actual social struggles. It is a question of the ideas and the concepts which will give a direction for the future. But we also know deep crises often lead to changes to paradigmatic changes in economics and social politics. So there might be a chance in it also for the question for work time reduction. This severe economical crisis can also, and I believe easily, lead to a massive return of neoliberalism or even worse. So it is still a question how we approach the crisis and which kind of concepts and ideas we develop. But at the same time now, we are seeing in this crisis, in this actual crisis, how important state intervention and regulations actually are. So this is something that could give us hope in many aspects. As I said, it is as always, future is unwritten and it is the question what the several forces but also progressive and leftist forces now find ways and directions and concepts and ideas to take part in the struggle for the future. And there, transnational organizing and discussion like you and we are doing here something to give us hope and perspective for the futures. Because still, the struggles have to be led locally or on a national basis. But the exchange of experiences, the solidarity across the borders is a lot and it can lead to much more. So I'm very, very glad to see that the network is not even that impressive wide European wide and also worldwide, I believe. It is also broadening and you have new members also from countries not being part of the European Union like from Iceland and this is also a good development. In the end, and also in the beginning, the struggle for work time reduction is one of the most original and genuine struggles of workers movement. It is directly addressing the relations between workforce and capital. It is a struggle connected to the question of distribution of profits or respectively surplus value to self determination and in the end, it's also a struggle connected to the question of sovereignty. This is why we as Brussels Office of Oso Luxemburg Foundation will definitely stay with this issue and with this important cooperation we have with the network. Now it should have been brief and it will be brief. So it's a special pleasure for me to give the word then to Philippe Pochet of Itui. It is very important that organizations like the European trade unions organizations are involved in this struggle. And the last word I have to say I wish of course you asked very much success with this conference fruitful exchange and discussions and again hopefully meet again in Brussels someday hopefully next year. Thank you very much. Yes that's I think it's my turn. As Margarita was saying that we should have the pleasure to meet in the premise of the Itui and to inaugurate a new hybrid room that we have in the ground floor and have this conference and have all the discussion and the important informal discussion but no it's the new reality and we have to do that online. We are used to do that but we still miss the quality of this kind of informal conversation. Even with online we can continue the conversation and this conversation is particularly important and I'm very happy from the institute is the first time that we have we support formally this network the attack the Resor Roosevelt and we are happy also to work with the Rosalind Somburg shift them in Brussels because I think also it shows the variety of point of view and the possible collaboration that we need on the topic and I will return to that at the end. For us at the institute it is a very important topic it will be a world program and it will be also in the perspective of climate change but we with all the crisis I think that's the what all we are on the left and in the various part of the left we are generally thinking that we will change the paradigm and that we will win something and last crisis was unfortunately what we did and I would like to start putting that in perspective because and was set by the previous intervention too I think that the out of the Covid the kind of socio-ecological transition that we will discuss now and the impact or the possibility to develop with necessity to develop reduction of working time I think it's just one of the possible scenario that we have on the table and the first one is the the return of austerity and the never-ending neoliberalism is also on the table and not perhaps in short term but let's be sure that it will not return but we have also other scenario that I think could be also rather frightening I call that the authoritarian scenario and could be linked with the green approach is the Chinese okay that's we protect our citizens and in an authoritarian state including to have an ambitious goal for climate change and through a mission and finally this kind of full consumption organismism scenario that we return to a spending spending and we don't care take take flight take care that's important for grow etc so I think that's what we we will discuss the two days it's one of the scenario and we have to be very cautious to avoid the other scenario too what seems to me important starting for all of the Covid crisis is the climate change strategy and the change in the climate change strategy and I think that it's nice to put a new figure in there to say okay we move to 40 to 55 to 60 percent of reduction at European level and we can put a nice figure but if you take that seriously and we have to take that seriously because if we don't go in that direction the the consequences could be dramatic or will be dramatic it means that we will have a rapid change in the the production it will be not a smooth transition we can call that just transition everyone likes something just but it will just transition we will be just transition in a short time and with a lot of change and there is some discussion here also about the car industry but the car industry will be affected dramatically and the workers in the car industry if we take that seriously because we will not go for hybrid and then electric car we will have to accelerate to electric car which i have some consequences on the the the workforce and not only the workforce for the electric car but i think nobody is dreaming to have a traffic jam with the electric car so we will have another mobility it's not the goal to have traffic jam with the electric car perhaps in my third scenario full consumption that's kind of some dream to have that but that's not a goal so i take a sector with 10 million workers it's not the the the small sector of coal which is 400 000 that's kind of statistical error in the when you can't and that's it's just one example what i want to say no is that we we are changing and we will change if we go much quicker and that will be much more difficult than before because in 30 years we reduce by 25 percent the emission and now in 10 years we have to reduce by 30 percent so when we have that what are the the solution and i think what should be and that's where for me and for the institute the working time is coming back what could be the the kind of the mark what the brand what what we want to achieve and you can see what through all the the variable that i think on working time is the most important is the most distinctive that will give the direction that we want to achieve for the future to avoid also the the other scenario the the austerity scenario the the authoritarian sort scenario the full consumption scenario and that's why i think it's it's important it's important but it will not go between without fight without difficulty and without discussion and then i finish with that and that's why i think this this conference is so important because as was said by the two previous speaker we need to to expand the conversation we we need to to to create consensus and we we need also to have conflict to the i think that there is no problem for trade unions to have conflict but we have to do to create consensus understanding and also a way forward and i think that's important that the most important trade union in europe at least by the numbers ege metal but certainly with the also the the importance this trade union has in the the world debate in europe it is returning and pushing the the working time in such a circumstance because it is no longer kind of idea of some kind of idealist people that have nice idea but difficult to put it in place it could be also pushing by real actor having some leverage on the situation so thank you we are very happy to to contribute on that and ask everyone set we hope that you will come in the etui premises will not be for the inauguration of this room i hope that we will have other events before but next year which also show that we would like to to continue with cooperation at this first step that we have no thank you yeah thank you so much philippe crochet and now i will give the word to adria he will explain us now the proceedings of the whole conference yes welcome everyone so uh on today's program we will have two round tables uh one on tables about the recent example of initiative and experimentation on working time reduction in europe so philippe was talking about uh igemetals a presentation from the igemetal experimentation and from others from begium and island and the idea of some table is to give concrete example and show that something is moving and it's not like you said an utopia but a concrete idea that that could have a real impact uh after this front table we will have a single one table on the place on work time reduction in the post-growth society so we free speakers which junior show will be strong and beat zipperman and the idea is to replace um or to debate about this this vision of future of the future we want and what is the place of working time or work of working time reduction in our society and to all the the the challenges and the that you you have mentioned the address and philippe and we have to to to to challenge and to to move forward and beat the so that's one table will be with the space to have that discussion and to give some guidelines about it again and welcome to our third panel on the recent examples of initiatives and experimentation of the working time reduction in europe we took exemplary selection of examples from germany from island and from belgium and in this case we have to organize the panel in the following way we first will give the word to sofi yannicka from the igemetta um she will speak and afterwards we will discuss um uh directly her contribution then because uh sofi has to leave us rather early around i think uh 230 or 240 and then we will go on with good mundur and uh 50 minutes speech and um uh 50 minutes discussion then with maxim the same procedure and at the end we have a half an hour for the general discussion okay so uh i now proudly present uh sofi yannicka she is um um uh working in the department for quality collective bargaining uh of the igemetta and they're responsible for all the questions of working time and igemetta is um the i think always biggest and mightiest trade union of the world and um in the year 2018 the igemetta really began after a long silence of more than 20 years to go on with the fight for working time reduction and successfully reached some agreement on this topic and now in the crisis of corona but that was before already a crisis in the automobile by industry again the igemetta is thinking about working time reduction in a more general way now i give the word to sofi yannicka yes hello everybody and thank you very much for inviting me it's a real pleasure for me to tell you something about igemetta working time policies yes and i have to apologize in advance that i have to have to leave earlier because i have another panel at three in another online zoom conference uh so i'm doing a bit of conference shopping during these days um i will try to make my screen visible wait yep can you see it yes okay uh i can somebody say something because i can't hear you anymore yes yes we are perfect okay thanks okay um yeah let me start first and then if i talk too much please stop me um yeah maybe uh in the beginning a few general words um as magareta introduced igemetta did a lot of working time policy but not always let's say we had the big times of working time policies in the 80s where igemetta went on strike for the 35 hour week very successfully in germany so now we have a weekly working time of 35 hours in the german metal industry and um then yeah there was a period of silence around working time policy i would say um this had several reasons um because i think uh you have waves of of issues in trade union policies and after reaching the 35 hour week uh in the west of germany you have to say um igemetta did a lot of other things we invented new uh wage systems in the metal industry so um we did a lot of other things and uh in the meanwhile um working time policy went from the collective uh from from a collective issue from a trade union issue to an issue more dealt with in the companies uh which meant that we we faced a lot of flexibilization of working time in the companies working time uh became longer than before and um also important working time in the companies became more unhealthy so we had an increase of unhealthy shift systems for example so um yeah a lot of developments in working time which have not been really uh in favor of the workers so um yeah voices in igemetta became louder and louder to to um go back to to working time policies um but it was not so easy to be honest um and igemetta made a lot of effort uh during the last i would say seven until five years to get working time as an issue back uh on the agenda we did two big uh surveys the the second one especially on working time um we did a big working time campaign which led into an negotiation round in 2018 uh where we came to new regulations on working time uh as magarita already mentioned um we have to say that uh this was not easy for us we needed industrial action we needed strikes to achieve those new regulations and um i will come back to this but um i think what was the most important for the people um was to get more self-determination uh on on their working time again um and then we reached this um this results you see there maybe uh you remember them because i presented it in the last meeting of the network already that's why i want to keep it short um we got a new regulation that certain kind of people people who are taking care of children of elderly or people who are in shift work uh get a choosing option they can choose if they take uh some kind of annual extra money or if they uh take eight days off instead and we achieved the right to reduce full time and go back on go back on full full time after that um and yeah this were where the two options we achieved and um yeah now we are on a different point in the debate again i mean we are only two years later uh but as mentioned before we are now in one of the biggest crisis uh you can imagine and uh discussion on working time and especially on working time reduction is uh back on our agenda you can see there um that in in 2018 we had a focus on individual needs uh in in reduct uh in in the reduction of working time because people said we want to have more self-determination with our working time and now uh because of the crisis we are going a bit back on a collective view on working time um yeah but i will come back to this later and look at the time um so what we can say after our uh negotiation round and collective bargaining struggle in 2018 was um that achieving those new new options for workers on working time strengthened the self-confidence of our colleagues in the companies and also strengthened Iggy Metall as an organization that has also to do something with the fact that uh we had industrial action on this because i think if you have industrial action on an issue then the workers uh are very proud on it and they are they are taking those regulations much more um as their own ones because they have been fighting for it um um yeah and what we also achieved is that after a period uh of of uh working time being seen as a very difficult very uh um yeah heavy issue let's say for uh shop students that um we now uh saw that working time is again a successful field of action uh in the companies and also for Iggy Metall and the new options are broadly used in 2019 260 000 workers used this option of eight free days instead of money and in 2000 more already uh more than 340 000 um so you see that uh workers are very keen on on getting more free days uh even if they lose money because they can they can change the money into free days uh what is interesting and this is that uh in this um changing option money into time time is more worth than money because if you would simply count the money you can change into time would be six days but people get eight days um so this is also part of wage compensation let's say we imagine to get more we didn't but at least we get something um and the reduced full time is also used by around 10 000 workers annually this is not so much like the other option of course but it's good for those who would need it so this is what we did two years ago um and if i'm talking about that i have the feeling i'm talking about something historic because we are now on a completely different point in our discussion to be honest um so um what are the perspectives of the perspectives of working time policy for ike metall how to continue um for ike metall it is clear that uh we are further going for uh either collective and individual options to reduce working time we discussed this in our congress last year and uh it was clear that we will go for this further um but now we have three big uh challenges let's say um which which determine our discussion about uh working time the first one is of course the digital ecological and social transformation which affects uh it was said before a lot of our sectors very very heavily um if we talk in the in the automotive industry or in the in the supplies industry about ecological uh and digital transformation we are talking about a huge a really huge transformation with um with a lot of impacts for the workers of course um so this is a bit the the mid-term long-term perspective we have uh second perspective is of course of course that we are now in a deep and worldwide economic crisis um and those two things coming together we as ike metall are facing very concretely a lot of struggles and companies for employment and for the future of sites um because um you can see in this picture that we are discussing now about a loss of 220 uh thousand jobs in the in the metal center we collected the announce of layoffs of big companies and these are only the big companies you see here um it started end of last mid of last year end of last year um that uh big companies started to announce layoffs and um it was because the crisis began let's say but i think those layoffs uh had to do a lot with the transformation which is going on and then they knew they wouldn't need uh so many workers in the in the future um and you see if you if you count them all together that we are talking about 220,000 loss of 220,000 jobs it's not clear that this will come of course it's only what they announced and now uh we are discussing and fighting about that let's say um but this is a challenge for us as trade union of course um so um our perspective is now uh to say again very loudly that working time reduction is an instrument to safeguard employment and uh this it's an instrument for the current crisis as well as for the transformation which is uh a more longer or mid-term issue because the transformation will lead to more productivity in the companies i mean that's that's the goal of the whole thing that's why they are doing it um and it will of course also to lead lead to over capacities in the companies and working time uh reduction can safeguard employment in the longer run via the distribution of the remaining work to more workers um but for us as trade union of course it's very important to uh always to say that uh no matter about which kind of working time reduction we are talking workers must be able to afford it so uh it's not an issue for us to say we reduce working time um without any wage compensation um so in uh in last summer eager metal made a proposal which was discussed very broadly and in the uh public and in the media and we proposed uh an option for companies with employment problems to reduce working time to fold four days per week with at least partly wage compensation um to say it clearly it's not a collective uh reduction of working time for everybody to afford days working week we are discussing about an option for companies with employment problems to do this um yeah why we are saying that maybe i can i can tell something about that later um and and as i as i mentioned here we are talking about a model of four days and eight hours working day that would mean uh 32 hours per week yeah um main arguments uh that we discussed in the title that proposal is that this was would be an answer to the structural change in the automotive and supply sector because we say transformation must not lead to mars layoffs but to work for everybody um and of course in the current crisis um it's also a reason for us that industrial jobs and companies uh can be saved via shorter working time because to save the the industrial structure of an of an economy is for us uh the key for working uh economy in the future and third argument of course an improved work-life balance for the workers because we still see that work full-time workers have the wish to work shorter uh due to a better work-life balance and uh last but not least less commute less commuting more climate protection uh there are studies i think this one is not the only one that um if only 10 percent of the workforce would stay at home one day per week that would mean a reduction of 850 million kilogram uh co2 plus less stress for the workers in the traffic and lower cost for commuting so this could be uh actually a win-win situation there are a lot of more arguments of course but uh due to the time i i will stop with those four uh and we can talk about the others later um so what is important for me here is that just to to make clear that of course egan et al is one of the organization saying we need working time reduction uh to safeguard jobs um but it's important to think uh this all the struggles for working time reduction together and you see that for example uh the the climate aspect is one of our main arguments to reduce working time so we try to to get things together to get different uh discourses together and also um to to link to the to the progressive discourses uh which we have in the society and i think uh the one of the climate protection is one of the most important most important moment um we got good media response in the in the public for for this proposal and of course we had a broad discussion in egan et al and within our members and in our collective bargaining bodies and we are discussing currently uh in our collective bargaining uh bodies which means in the in the commissions uh of of the uh shop stewards meeting and discussing uh for which demand we will have in the next collective bargaining round if we want to have this uh this proposal as a demand for the next negotiation our negotiations will start in december and will then uh go into the next year so this is an open question at the moment but uh i think we will do something on that in the next collective bargaining round and of course we get harsh critics from the employers there was um the the the boss of of gizamt metal of the employers federation who said this is poison for the metal industry and the other interesting uh statement was uh from from uh um employers federation from bavaria who said yes this would be a possible option but of course only without wage compensation so you see which struggle we will have to fight if we are going for that um yeah and this is my last point we are going now into the negotiations in the metal sector these negotiations will be very challenging let's say because uh the the the issues are big and we have to do all this under the corona conditions and of course this is something completely new for us i mean to do industrial action uh under these conditions of people not being allowed to meet uh with a lot of people and uh all the all the fear people have or the restrictions we have it will be well a very interesting experience how to do a collective bargaining round especially uh in such a situation and with such issues for us uh this year in next year thanks yes thank you very much Sophie for this very interesting and uh very uh actual and concrete uh um contribution um i think uh i have a lot of questions um directly on the concrete circumstances of this uh um now going on um bargaining uh round but first we have a question uh to you uh from Manuela from Rolo Luxembourg Foundation uh too she's asking how could we make sure that the working time reduction in Germany does not lead to relocation of automotive production to Eastern Europe and how do we need an European approach and who could be possible allies in this fight yeah um yes of course we need a European approach that's why i'm here of course um and uh Iggy Metall is also member of the industrial federation of industrial Europe this is our European federation and uh in this uh in industrial Europe we also have very big discussions about the question of working time reduction and uh about the the issue of that actually a lot of unions are discussing now uh to reduce working time the problem is uh a crisis is always a very difficult situation to reduce working time because we have uh we don't have so much uh instruments of pressure towards the the employers because actually if you go for working time reduction um you have to do industrial action and this is all uh this is easier in a situation uh where uh where the economy is going well because then workers have uh much much more pressure than than they have in this situation so i think it's a difficult discussion it's a difficult situation for struggle um and of course we can't uh make sure that this will not lead to relocation but i only can say that um this model we proposed is also a model which is affordable for the employers because of course the employers are also saving money if they reduce working time which partly wage compensation because they are saving money for uh restructuring plans they are saving money for acquisition of of people um when the crisis is over and they they have to to get back the um the well educated people um so we think this is affordable and um we made the experience also that you never can completely uh avoid relocation um and of course this is one thing uh which the employers always uh try to threatening the workers we will relocate but on the other hand uh we are in touch with our sister trade unions in the other countries sometimes it's easier sometimes it's not so easy but it's it's fact that we have to do something on that um yeah so far to this okay and uh just in the moment we have in Germany strikes in other uh branches who are not so well organized as the metal in the public traffic and in the in the hospitals for example and they are doing it even if the situation is very difficult and they have support of others and so far i think it's possible to do something okay so i come to the second question um what models uh they might have in mind when it comes to the partial compensation of pay the metal is demanding a partial compensation and pay and how is the concrete um thinking about it yeah to be honest that's not figured out at the moment yeah i mean that's uh this is the thing uh the struggle will will be about um and it's not only a question of models but also of power relations to be honest i mean sure iggy metals has the more the better uh and employers say nothing that's the situation we are standing in and so i'm sorry i can tell you more maybe next year i in in may latest but we'll see sorry okay dan a question do you have the profile of those who shifted to the 28 hours option for two years yes and is there a risk of agenda buying no yeah that's an interesting question um um because um yeah this this has a lot of dimensions no we don't have a real profile um but yeah my my impression is that uh these are not only women which is very easy because we are talking about a sector where uh i think 18 percent of women are working so if we make working time policy and if we make uh policies for more work life balance actually we are doing this for men i mean it sounds strange but uh it's it's just uh depending to the people working in the sectors um so these are definitely men taking it but um we can see that the the 28 hours are taken a lot by uh well qualified people and also people with uh better wages of course because you don't get wage compensation in this model so this is what i said before people have to be able to afford it financially and this is of course so more an option for people who are earning quite well yeah uh i could complete it a little bit um the very wide chosen option of the eight days instead of the 27.5 percent wage supplement this is really first it is a special offer because it's two days more worse than the the wage would be and um it is the only the the the transformation of a supplement wage in two free time so it is uh no uh reduction in