 Everybody, today we're debating whether or not Islam fits in Western society and we are certain right now. Ladies and gentlemen, thrilled to have you here for another epic debate. This is going to be a fun one, folks. As we explore this brand new topic, probably a juicy one, so strap your seatbelts on, folks. It's going to be a wild one. Want to let you know, though, at Moderated Debate, we are a nonpartisan channel focused on hosting debates on science, politics, and religion. We are very excited for this one today, and if it's your first time here, consider hitting that subscribe button as we have many more debates to come. In fact, even tonight we have a tag team debate, two atheists versus two Christians, so that should be a lot of fun. And also want to let you know, if you haven't heard yet, we are stoked about the fact that we have recently decided Moderated Debate is invading the podcast world. So we are excited. You'll see on the far right side of your screen. Those are just some of the podcast, I should say podcast apps that we are already on. And so if you can't find us on your favorite podcast app, let us know. We'll work to get on there. So with that, want to let you know, for our debate today, very excited, want to let you know neither of our guests has a camera. So that is basically the screen, the way it looks right now is the way it's supposed to look. You will be able to tell who's actually talking, though, by looking at which bar is lighting up. So there will be a yellow bar, you're seeing it blink a little bit as a little bit of sound is coming from Dean's mic. And so that will signify which side is talking. And want to let you know, for our format, it's fairly flexible. We have about roughly 10 to 12 minutes for opening statements followed by open conversation and then Q&A. I want to let you know, if you have a question, feel free to fire it into the old live chat and it'll make it easier for me to get every single question in that Q&A list if you tag me with at modern day debate in that question. Super Chat is also an option in which case you can ask a question or if you'd like, you can make a comment toward one of the speakers and Super Chat will also push your question or comment to the top of the list for the Q&A to be sure it gets asked. So with that, we are excited, folks, we're going to kick this one off, but do want to let you know we are very excited to mention we are going to start with the affirmative so Orthodox Moore is going to get the ball rolling as he's going to answer yes to the question that Islam can fit within Western society and then Dean will go arguing why it cannot. So with that, very excited to have you guys and one last thing. I put both of the links for our guests in the description, folks. So if you're listening and you're like, I like that, I want more. You can hear more at those links. So thanks so much, gentlemen. Let me just first say we really appreciate you coming to hang out with us. It's a true pleasure to have you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate being here. Absolutely. And with that, Orthodox Moore, the floor is all yours for your opening. Well, let me say thank you to the platform for having us. Thank you for my counterpart for being here. Thank you for the chat for showing up and share my screen real quick. Can you see my screen? Yes. Now we can. All right. Start up. So this debate is, does Islam fit in Western society? Real quick. My name is Tav on Swineau, aka the Orthodox Moore. I'm a Quranist, carite, libertarian, theological naturalist. I wasn't always a Muslim. I was not raised as such, et cetera. A good Sri Lankan Muslim brother, they gave me a Quran when I was younger and sat on my shelf for 10 years because I thought I was going to find wife beating and child marriages inside it and all kind of crazy stuff. After finding out about some familial ties to Islamic societies, I decided to read the Quran and was amazed by what I read. I was quite surprised to find that the extreme concepts I had thought were in the Quran were actually in the hadith, secondary books of sayings that are not considered equal to the scripture of the Quran by Muslims. I can completely understand why someone would think that Islamic culture has no place in Western society given the images painted in our media. I used to think the same thing myself with all the stories of terrorist organizations, honor killings, grooming gangs and the like. Then I came to understand that I was being exposed to radical Islamic extremism and by definition was extreme and not representative of what the vast majority of Muslims believe now or have believed historically. Please understand. I'm saying this as some media conspiracy in any way, shape or form. In fact, I'm saying quite the opposite. What I noticed after delving into the world of Islamic debate and dialogue was that the extremists, although the smallest segment of Muslims were making the most noise, while the normal slash moderate Muslims were too busy arguing amongst themselves between the different sects on meaningless matters of dogma to notice the extremists moving in the shadows or to call them out publicly. To that end, I have had two YouTube channels taken down by so-called Muslims for defending the free speech and criticism of people like Tommy Robinson and Asal Raghavi and using the Quran to do so or the place they stand for justice even against yourselves. Tommy Robinson and Asal Raghavi are white and black nationalists. I don't agree with their ideology, but I agree with their ability to be able to voice their opinion and to voice critiques against Islam as long as they do not call for harm against people. As a matter of fact, the video I made about the concept is one of Tommy Robinson's last few tweets on his Twitter page before it was taken down. It is my position that radical Islamic extremism is real and that the Quran obligates almost to stand for justice against such, even if we must stand against ourselves or our families. It is also my position that the religion of Islam is not against the Western values, ethics or society in general. The religion of Islam teaches principles consistent with the Western way of life, the non-aggression principle, religious tolerance, women's rights, being a good citizen, disdain for oppression, academic study and rational thought. It is my position that any disdain for the West is a cultural phenomenon and has nothing to do with the religion of Islam in and of itself. My position is that extremism does not belong in any society Western or otherwise. I don't judge Islam by the extremists that violate the faith like ISIS or Boko Haram, just as I don't judge Western society and culture by Nazi Germany or the papal bulls that initiated the transatlantic slave trade. Most people that take issue with Islam either do so for religious or cultural reasons. However, there is nothing about the religion or culture of Islam that stopped Western Islamic cultures from sharing with and also enriching Western society. My father descends from West Africans who were historically Muslim that went through the slave trade. My mother descends from North African Jews that came to America via Spain and Mexico. Both lineages have historical ties to Islamic societies in North and West Africa. These are Western Islamic societies. They are interwoven into the fabric of the history of and culture of Western society. Most are not aware of Islamic influences on Western society through no fault of their own. We're simply not taught about it in Western schools. Hopefully, some light can be shed on that history here today. Disclaimer, we will most likely, me and my opponent will most likely disagree on the cultural expressions of Islam that we don't like. I'm willing to stand with anyone against child marriages, battered women, grooming gangs, acts of terrorism, and the limiting of speech, etc. Muslims don't agree on hadith scholars or sex. The only thing that is agreed upon is the Quran as a source text. I will defend the Quran as the universal standard for Islam only. Second, disclaimer, the scholars in schools of jurisprudence that are linked to radical Islamic extremism are typically of a fundamental Salafism or Wahhabism. From the 18th and 19th century, a school of thought that is no way emblematic of Islam as a whole or the Western Islamic societies I will be mentioning here. These societies that I will be talking about historically were either Malachi, Zachary, Sufi, Somershia. And these schools of thought were coming through in the 18th and 10th centuries. And even before that, some cultures predated schools of jurisprudence altogether, like when the Moors went into Spain in 711 AD. My premise is this. Yes, Western Islam fits in Western society. Interactions and influences from Western Islamic cultures are interwoven into the fabric of Western society. Contributions from Western Islamic cultures on Western society are just as foundational to the construct of Western society as those from Greco-Roman culture, Judeo-Christian culture, the Renaissance, or the Enlightenment. Islamic cultures translated Greek classics, expanded math, science, philosophy, and medicine, et cetera. And we're involved in developing the West through alliance, trade, and exploration. Also with my premise, Muslim slaves and their modern descendants, almost one-third of slaves taken in the transatlantic slave trade were from African Islamic societies. Around 25% of just American Muslims alone are descendants from slaves. American Muslim descendants of slaves do not have a history of involvement with the terrorist acts of radical Islamic extremism. The Islamic society's latest syndrome were not historically Salafi or Wahhabi. American Muslim descendants of slaves not only helped build America through slave labor, but have integrated themselves into the pop culture and politics of America. Conclusion, if this discussion is in good faith, then we should be able to agree on solutions for fighting radical Islamic extremism in Western society. We should also be able to agree on the historical contributions made to Western society by Western Islamic cultures. Not to mention there should be no argument about American Muslim descendants of slaves fitting into Western society. Also, if this discussion is not in good faith, then I will expect the strawman of Salafism and Wahhabism and radical Islamic extremism being made to represent the whole of Islam. I would also expect dismissive rhetoric about the existence of Western Islamic culture and hand waving of any demonstrable contributions to Western society. Not to mention the flat denial of the American Muslim descendants of slaves fitting into Western society. Western Islamic societies and their influence. Greco-Arabic translation movement of the 8th and 10th century in Baghdad at the House of Wisdom translated Greek text into Arabic such as Aristotle, Homer, Plato, Hippocrates, Ptolemy, Yarin, and many, many, many, many others. After such, the Islamic world developed said information and retranslated the Greek and their own Arabic text on the information into Latin in the 10th and 13th centuries. You can see here Al-Khorezmi, Ibn Sina, Al-Ardi, Al-Ghazali, Al-Farabi. These are all different thinkers of medicine, science, astronomy, etc. that were translated into Latin text for the Western world. For instance, Al-Khorezmi. His name, we get the word algorithm from his name. We get algebra in our society from this man. Can you, can you, can you conceive a Western society not using algorithms right now? Influences on Fibonacci and Copernicus, Newton and Descartes, these all came from Islamic culture. We get Arabic numerals, the heliocentric view, laws of motion, and epistemology being affected by these cultures. Aspects of Western daily culture via Islamic Iberia and more. We get toothpaste, deodorant, shaving, hair conditioner, three-course meals. We also get coffee, distilled alcohol, daily bathing in seasonal fashion. Not to mention in these cultures, they had public bathhouses and public education and public ovens, etc., the foundation of a safety net in society as we enjoy in the West, etc. Also, aspects of the Western culture via Islamic influence were the fact that you had Muslim, Jewish, Christians, and female scholars and academics. You can look up Lubna of Kordubu, Maimonides, and Honein Ibn Ashaq, and also Al-Sahibi. These are female, Jewish, Christian, and even Sabian scholars, all flourishing within Islamic societies. We have Ibn Aswad, a Moorish-Iberian navigator, said to have sailed over the Atlantic and found New Land in 889 A.D. We have Mustafa Esmuri, also known as Esteban the Moor. He was an explorer and surgeon. He explored North America from Florida to Arizona from 1528 to 1539. We also have 800 years of Anglo-Moroccan alliance to trade and culture, going back from the 1213 to modern times and whatnot. We also see that through that alliance, trade and culture, that Islamic presences and figures show up in Anglo-pop culture. For instance, you have Shakespeare writing about five Moorish characters in five and four plays of his, most notably Othello the Moor. Etcetri and Othoriel engines, there are four Saracen knights that participate in his round table, et cetera. 400 years of Dutch and Moroccan alliance with trade and culture, et cetera. We have the Treaty of Friendship in Free Commerce in 1608 and 1610. In such trade and commerce, et cetera, we see that Islamic culture show up in their culture, in their pop culture as well. You can see the story of Maureen and our thorian romance about the Moorish knight. About a Moorish knight. There was 250 years of U.S. Moroccan and Barbary alliance, almost 250 years in America, trade, et cetera. Morocco recognized, was the first country to recognize the U.S. in 1777 and was the first to strike a treaty with them in 1786, 1787. The Treaty of Tripoli in 1796, listen to this, stipulates this in Article 11. There is no enmity with the Muslim religion. America has no enmity with the Muslim religion. In our pop culture, America, we see this, we watch this every year in this country, the movie of roots. It's a story about a Muslim slave struggle to retain his culture. One of the famous lines from that story is in the movie, is when Kuta Kinte is proposing to his wife and says, I'm not going to be no Christian man, I'm not going to eat no pork. I expect I'm going to be hard to live with sometimes, meaning him praying multiple times a day. This isn't our modern American culture. Again, American Muslims who were enslaved or Muslims who were enslaved, who were enslaved. And again, we have American Muslim descendants thereof. We have Omar Ibn Said, Yara Mahmood, Abdul Rahman Ibrahim Ibn Sa'iri. All these men were Fulani men from Senegal and Guinea, and all of them were extremely, extremely educated and can write in the Arabic, et cetera, whatnot. We have memoirs from them. We have histories from them written down. We have theology and the autobiographies you can watch or you can go read and go check out. And we can see how some became entrenched into our society after being freed, becoming merchant fined, financiers, et cetera, whatnot. Also, just to note, one was actually freed and sent back to Africa via one of the Moroccan trees that was signed. Got about 30 seconds. OK. Real quick, I want to talk about a few Muslims who were descendants of slaves who are well known in American pop culture. You have Malcolm X. He's the major cause behind modern conversion to Islam. We have Muhammad Ali, one of the greatest boxes of all time. We have Karim Diljabar, the leading scorer in the NBA. We have Ahmad Rashad. He was a sportscaster and the husband of Felicia Rashad, the TV wife of Bill Cosby. And on top of that, we have the first two Muslims who were a part of the American Congress. They are African-Americans who converted to Islam. Do they not fit in the West? Do all the different contributions of Islam not fit in the West? If they don't, then you need to go back to a view to where you look at the Earth as the center of the world and it's flat. You've got to give up your coffee. You've got to give up your bathing. You've got to give up your distilled alcohol, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But with that, I yield the balance of my time. Thanks so much. We will kick it back into the dialogue boxes. And so thanks for your opening from orthodox more. We are going to kick it over to Dean for his opening as well. Thanks for being here, Dean. All right. Mr. James, thank you for having me on your show. The orthodox more. I'm happy to debate with you today. I would like to talk on the motion that Islam is not a feed for the Western society. So first of all, what is Islam? Islam means something to a lot. Hold on one second. I think that there is a little bit of an internet connection issue, just one sec. Sorry to interrupt. I'll restart your time so that you have the full 12 minutes. But it was just that we were already starting to lose you there. We'll give you a restart right now. And thanks for your patience. The floor is all yours. OK, thank you for having me on your show. And James, I'm happy to be here to talk more. Thanks for coming to talk with me. First of all, what does Islam mean? Islam simply means submission to Allah. Allah is an Arabic word meaning God. So in Islam, it simply means that you don't make any choice of your own, make no decision of your own. You just choose to follow God. And that is just it. But according to the Islamic Jewish students, Islam has been meant to worship Allah alone and none else, to offer prayers, perfectly pay the compulsory charity and to observe fast during the month of Ramah. In the 7th century, a guy named Mohammed claimed to yes from an angel called Angel Gabriel. Even if we don't know whatever that means, then he claimed that there's only one God. And he decides to follow the God of the Jews and the Christians. All right. And since then, Islamic empires as spread through violence, wars, slavery, and everything that will get out through the rate of this debate. All right. OK. Sahib Buhari, one of the most widespread hadiths in Islam, even though my brother said she wouldn't be able to have this. But please, permit me to quote what Sahib Buhari says on the topic of Islam. He said that Islam means to surrender is to testify that there is no God but God. And that Mohammed is God's messenger to perform the prayer best of all. Fasting Ramah and make outcance the pilgrimage to the holy house. Now, what is this? This is the five pillars of Islam, which is compulsory given, which is called the zakat. You must go to pilgrimage in Saudi Arabia and to prove that there's only one God. The definition of Islam alone proves that the belief can be compatible with the West. Why do I say so? The West is built on a different opinion. It's a multiverse place. It's not a place whereby you follow one idea and you stick to that idea. Any idea that feels superior to another, that only him should be heard, is a problem in the West. The West is the head class of democracy. Yeah, there are over 20, if not more countries in the Middle East, countries in Africa that follow Islamic law. They don't give us this platform for debate. We can't do this in Saudi Arabia or Iran. OK, yes. I intentionally mentioned Saudi Arabia or Iran now. Islam has two denominations, the Sunni and the Shi'a. Now, which do we follow? Which is the word of God? Do we follow Habib Bakr or Imam Ali? That one is still a question that we are here to answer today. I think there's maybe, forgive me, I promise I'll give you the time back. I'll give you the time back. Dean, I hate to interrupt, but Dean, I promise I'll give you the time back. It sounds like there's kind of like a rustling in the background. I hate to be so picky. It's just like maybe papers or something. It's a little bit, sometimes it kind of spikes the audio on me into the red. But you can keep going, but just want to let you know that. OK, OK, sorry, let me get the papers off the microphone. OK, thank you. As I'm just saying, I'm talking about the Sunni and the Shi'a Islam now. Which do we follow? I talked about the five pillars of Islam earlier, and everybody knows that that goes with the Sunni. Maybe the Shi'a has seven pillars of Islam. So which is the way, man? How can this idea that is in conflict with each one self, be applicable in the West? The West, if we look at America, for example, the question of independence, I need to say that all men are created equal. And all men should do something that will create their pursuit of happiness. But if we go back to the 7th century and how I am, Mohammed's prayer in Islam, I don't think that was happiness to people. I don't think that there was someone in the West who would be happy to. Uh, we're, Dean, I'm sorry, we're still not, we're not quite hearing you, Dean. Dean, we're not, I'd say, I couldn't hear Dean one second. Dean, OK, Dean, one second, I'm sorry, like the last 10 seconds, I, or so, I just couldn't hear. Are you, are you able to get to a spot that might have a stronger connection? It just kind of seems like it was cutting out that time. It wasn't the sound interference. It was more that the connection might not have done it, like it might not have been that strong. Yeah, we cannot hear you. I can't hear you. Yeah, so I don't, I mean, I, it's definitely your internet connection. I mean, it's your, maybe part mic, but part internet connection. Are you hearing me now? Yes. This, we'll try to go again. All right, it's all good. OK, let me, are you hearing me now? Let me bring the microphone closer to your ear. I can hear it still, though, that your internet connection is kind of ebbing and flowing. I don't know if it can handle the Zoom audio. I don't know if it's, we're just not quite getting your audio in that smoothly, but we'll give it a shot. OK, I'm gonna keep trying. And then if you're able to, I hate to be so hard on you, but just, if you're able to slow down just a bit, just because I think it's hard for people to hear just because it's also going fast, and then the internet connection, and then the sound feedback is hard, but we'll kick it back over to you. Are you there? I'm, I don't know for sure if we're going to be able to finish this debate. Dean, I don't know if you're there if you can hear me, but we just can't quite hear you. We might not be able to continue, because people, it's just really hard to hear you. I don't know if you can hear me right now. Can you hear me? Once in a while, I can hear you, but I just don't know if this is gonna work today. I think that, you know, I'm really sorry we give it our best shot, but I mean, if you can hear me now, in the pre-show, I felt like it was more consistent, but it's just, but maybe that's just because we were, you know, setting up. We weren't talking and we couldn't notice it. Are you, can you hear me? I'm hearing you clearly, but I don't get why you're not hearing me clearly. Yeah. Wherever you're at, Dean, just stay right there. Just stay right there, don't move around. We'll try again. Yeah, I think like, let's just go from right where you are. We can keep trying, and we'll see, hopefully it'll keep going. Okay, do I start afresh, or should continue from where I stopped? Uh, let's see. I would say maybe like two minutes into it would be fine. So like only last minute or so, because the last minute has been me asking if you can hear me. So maybe just the last minute, if you wanna repeat that and we'll keep going. Okay, I was talking about the two major denominations of Islam, which is the Sunni and the Shia. And now, if we look at the same two major denominations, we're already causing so many conflicts in the Middle East between them, Saudi Arabia and Iran. In Iran, especially, three groups, they are sentenced to death last week. What was their crime? Simply protesting against the Ayatollah, and with the Ayatollah, the spiritual leader of Iran. Also, if we look at their men like Osama bin Laden, which they are not able to do with Islam, in the creation of Saudi Arabia as a state, it was simply an agreement between them, Mohammed Ibn-Ad al-Wahab and Mohammed bin Saud, in order to form a currency state for the Arab, run under Islamic ideology. And now, if we look at what happened in Afghanistan, how they were, how they stood to go confront the Soviet Union, which led to Osama bin Laden going there to chase out the Soviet Union and the rest of what Osama bin Laden is history. And now if we say that that has nothing to do with Islam, then I ask, what else? Islam that spreads to violence, wherever Islam went, violence followed. The only place that we consider Islam, didn't go with violence in South Asia, in places like Indonesia, Malaysia. Yes, Islam didn't spread with violence. But if we look at the Middle East, Mohammed himself started the whole process with violence, and is that what is at the value in the West? Obviously, not so. In the West is run by a liberal democracy, but everyone is free to say what they like and dislike. Like for example, this is our discussion today. It's taking place in the West. We can't do this in the streets of Iran or Saudi Arabia or any Muslim majority country. There are laws against converting out of Islam. If someone converts from Islam to Christianity, yeah, it's gonna be the cure. And I can use the first of the Quran to prove that point. In Surah 9, 11 to 12, Surah 16, 106, and Surah 4, it's nine. It states clearly, QD Khufri, and with the Khufri, anyone who believes Islam should be executed and in various parts of the hadith, the Sahih, Buhari, and the Sahih Muslim, it has been stated clearly that someone should be heard. Anybody who lives the faith. I don't think that's what people in the West should subscribe to. In the West, everybody lives there freely, the Muslim, the Christian, the Jew, the Atheist. For example, look at the Oxford Union, maybe I'll buy the, so many debates have taken place. I don't see such debates in Iran. Nobody knows the Atheist of Saudi Arabia. And one more point, throughout last century, there were over a million Jews in the Middle East. They were Jews in Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, and every majority around the Jews. But today, where are the Jews? I ask that question, where are the Jews? Outside from Israel, is there no place, part of the Middle East that you can find the Jews? No, we're also in Pakistan. As of the last century, there are 7 million Muslims and over 200 monks in Pakistan. But today, there are only two Hindu temples in Pakistan and over 200 Jews, sorry, 200 Hindus. Where are the Hindus? Like I've always said before, and I'll say it on this platform also. Christianity is politics, but Islam is, sorry, Christianity is business, Islam is politics. Islam is a political movement. It's no longer a religion, it's not a political movement. Whereby it tends to, anywhere it goes, change the order and the government, overthrow the government as in, let me use the word, a coup, take over the system and immediately it starts its own version of whatever it thinks is the best form of them, Sharia law in that place. For example, 1979 Islamic Revolution, whereby the Shah, which was supported by the West, was removed and everybody know what Iran is today. We all know how the Middle East has been passed and that with various wars here and there. I conclude with this statement. If Islam was so great, why do Muslims run from the predominant Muslim areas and go to the West? If Islam was not nice, why don't the Muslims in the West pack up their bags and head to Saudi Arabia? If Islam was so nice, why can't Shia Muslims worship peacefully in their own mosques in Saudi Arabia and why can't Muslims in Saudi Arabia do the same in Iran? If Islam was so great, why did the destruction of Yemen, thank you. Gotcha, thank you very much. And then Dean, we do have to fix a couple of things before we go forward. I don't know what it is, but in, I'm looking at the OBS Sound Meter and your, the speech that's coming through is in the green and it's bumping into the yellow, which is pretty much where we want it. But there's like something, I don't know if it's a crumpling paper or like a clicking noise that flies into the red. And so it's kind of like, it's a little bit jarring. I'm not sure if you're able to figure out what it is that might be all of a sudden just kind of really quick little blips that are super loud and distracting. But we will go into the open discussion and then I think Orthodox more, if you're able to help me out, I'm my attention kind of being both on the chat for questions as well as listening to the debate. If there's anything that you're able to hear and able to explain like what was said, because it's hard for me. No worries. That would be super helpful, thanks so much. I'll do my best. And the floor is all yours guys, thanks so much. So who gets the first question? Just open conversation so you guys can feel free to just kind of dialogue. Okay, so real quick is, I want to clear this up with Dean. So are you against like all religions in the West? Like are you against Christianity and Judaism, et cetera? Or are you just against Islam? Yeah, sure. I don't believe in God for every religion, not just Islam. But Islam is a political movement. If you can go back to, Hey Dean, if you're cutting in and out real quick, if you can go back to, I don't know if you're moving around, but if you go back to wherever you were. Once politics come in, that's where it's coming in that critical Islam. You can't understand it, it's a political movement. The decision is set to uphold law. Dean, we can't hear you. You're cutting out, brother. We need to, Dean, we've got to do something here. Otherwise we've got to, I am afraid we'll have to stop the debate. Hold on a second. Hold on, I'm still talking. We've got to do something here. So hold on a second, Dean, is that we have to fix this. Otherwise it just doesn't make sense for people to listen. So I mean, if they can't hear you, there's no point to continue. So I need you to work with me. Is there a spot you can go to where the connection is better? Where did you move from the spot that you were at during your opening? Are you able to hear me? Yeah, I can hear you perfect. Dean, can you hear me? Yeah, I just don't think this is going to work. I gave it. I think that we're getting kind of the robot voice though. It's just, it's really hard to make it. I can hear you clearly now. Like 50% maybe. Hello? Yeah. You're sounding like the matrix for me. This is just, I just don't think it's going to work, Dean, from what we've had so far. So I think we're gonna have to try to scrap it. I really wish that we could continue, but I just don't think we can. There is just no way we can, I can't hear what you're saying. But we do want to say thanks everybody for coming out and hanging out with us. Maybe Dean is trying to reconnect. If he's able to reconnect, we can give it one last try, but otherwise do not mention, we appreciate your support folks. We are very excited for a lot of debates coming up. We are in talks with a lot of new people that we're bringing on the channel and a lot of new topics as well. So I know that this one is a challenging one. And so thanks for your patience folks. We just have to kind of go with the best we can in terms of like the connection. We kind of go with it and hope it'll hold in the pre-show. It seemed like it was okay. Like we could all understand each other, but like I said, maybe we just didn't notice that the connection was ebbing and flowing because we just weren't carrying a conversation. It was more just me trying to set up an OBS and asking a couple of questions like who's going to go first and all that. So we do want to say, Orthodox more will probably be back as depending on whether or not we hear back from Mike Enoch, they may debate which should be an interesting one. So want to say thanks so much folks. There will be a debate tonight and that is two atheists versus two Christians. So that should be a really fun one. Want to say thanks so much everybody for being here. I think we probably lost Dean completely. And so I think that that's maybe why he hasn't logged back in. So we do hope you're well, Dean. Maybe if we find another connection spot where we have a smooth connection, we can give it another shot someday. But want to say thanks so much everybody for hanging out with us today. Sorry, I know that you expected a debate and we will actually, we are open. Orthodox more has a smooth connection. If someone else in the next week would like to step up and do this debate with Orthodox more, arguing that Islam does not fit in Western society, let us know. And we will work to make that debate happen. So let's see. We give it the whole college try, that's right. Let's see. So want to say thanks so much folks. And we will, maybe this is something we can do next week where maybe in the next two weeks we'll find someone who will give him a decent amount of time to prepare for the debate. And my guess is Orthodox more, you'd still be up for it no matter who it was with. And we can try that. So want to say thanks everybody for being with us. We hope you guys come back tonight for that debate to atheists versus to Christians in a tag team debate on whether or not Christianity is true. So that should be a fun one. And want to say thanks again for coming by everybody. Keep sifting out the reasonable from the unreasonable. And thanks both Dean, who is no longer with us. We hope you're well Dean and thanks Orthodox more as well. Yeah, thank you. One more time for me when I'll sit a bit. Absolutely. Take care folks and we will hopefully see you tonight.