 On my side welcome to the focus session in which we outline the plan for the exploratory work that we have prepared in the Euro system for a while and which we have also indeed received feedback on in our related contact group which I share. So on the next slide I give the outline for the presentation sorry it's one slide back sorry that was a bit too quick maybe yes so then the outline for the framework yes exactly so the presentation now so this is a first of three three more before we go to the question and answers so the framework for the exporter work so this is now firstly the design principles thereafter we'll discuss and explain the timeline and the solutions in scope and also the envisioned settlement for the purpose of the experiments and for the trials in particular. So the design principles so the exploratory work will actually rely on existing regulatory functional and operational framework of the target services so this is not a sandbox approach and this is important to have in mind because it will explain why we do something specific for the trial which we would not do which we would do differently in case this would be a long-run solution. The trials will also rely on the Euro systems T2 for ultimate settlement of the cash leg of the transactions in center bank money. In the in the slides you will see that as a CEBM just because it is repeated so often it's a long long word but center bank money so there are no changes to the current rules for accessing center bank money so basically it's the same participation as for the current target services. The exploratory work is planned to run from May of 2024 to the following November and of course also here now the disclaimer that Ulrich had already said but it's important to have in mind that this this does not say that actually any implementation decision has that any decision for implementation later has been taken regarding any solution nor do we commit through our exploratory work to do so. So that brings us then to the timeline which is then on the next on the next slide. So the work kind of has started in the sense that actually indeed our call for expression of interest has been published on the 13th of December and it's open to all market participants subject to eligibility criteria. Then in this turquoise or blue-greenish box so it means that actually as of now you can actually apply and register and the onboarding will be actually possible so as of now. So each eligible participant that includes also market DLT operators will contact their respective their local NCB for onboarding which and that NCB will then liaise with the solution providers so the center bank solution providers who actually provide them the three solutions that Ulrich has talked about. The wave one applications are feasible until the end of January and that would then bring us to the to the blue box so to offer the DLT exploration on a timely basis we have announced our firm plans and actually why we speak so to say we are finalizing also the all of the remaining paperwork so that the decision on this can be taken early next year also on the on all of the modalities and thereafter actually subject to actually an favorable eligibility assessment then actually the legal framework can be signed and the document can be signed and that will be actually between each national center bank and the participant and their jurisdiction and also where applicable the solution provide our center bank and the participant will also sign another agreement. So that actually in May the exploratory work can start that brings us to the blue box so as of in May the trials and experiments will be conducted participants take part can take part in these but not only can they take part of course this whole exercise serves also for us in the center bank but also for the whole market to learn so we are asking the participate the participants also to provide some reporting on on metrics and criteria that we are actually specifying so that we can actually better assess afterwards the solution analyze them so that's also important you also see actually a dashed arrow there's also a wave two so if you are not ready yet for a wave one for the full six months for which one has to apply until in January there's also another window open where one actually has to express an interest until end of April so that the exploratory work that actually those eligible found eligible thereafter can actually start also in July it does not mean that those participants will also have another six months so the time window will be shortened because in November and that's the reddish box on the on the right hand side in November the exploratory work will end for all participants now coming to the solutions in scope in a bit more detail so the proposed euro system work is focused on the three interoperability based solutions that are offered by what we call the SPCB or solution provider center banks so that's firstly the trigger solution by the dodger bonus bank secondly it's the tips hashlink solution by bank at italia and it's the full dlt interoperability solution by the bank the force the euro system will conduct jointly with the market trials that means there will be actually actual settlement of transactions we can also and we'll also actually set up experiments so these are actually then mock transactions how does it look in more detail that's here on this chart so on this chart you actually see three technical environments that will be used to interact during the euro systems trials and experiment on the left in blue what you see are the target services that's mainly the t2 service or the real-time gross settlement or rtgs component that's used for business as usual payments and will also be used for the final central bank money settlement and also for liquidity transfers with asmic connectivity so and you see there that we for the different solution we actually then have application to application interfaces and also user to application in yellow we have the actually three solutions provided by the solution provider center banks just mentioned before and they are used to firstly orchestrate the dvp process through an interoperability mechanism between the respective platforms here in yellow and the market dlt which is then put in green so they are so the the yellow solutions they will orchestrate the yeah so they will orchestrate that that dvp and will and through their interoperability mechanism and they will forward also instructions to the to t2 for settlement or provide a proxy center bank money settlement relying on the exploratory liquidity as part of the escrow process which i will actually also explain in a minute so in green is the market dlt that is used for the settlement and delivery of tokenize on native digital assets so security tokens and would be operated by illegal market dlt operators so in short in this case for for dvp transaction they will be coordinated via different mechanisms so we as a center bank we will provide solutions for the center bank money cash payment or the cash leg of the transaction or the market dlt operator ensures the dvp and delivers the security now the envisioned settlement for this during the trial so firstly the envisioned use cases two slides on this so the the main focus is here on the dvp use cases so delivery versus payment there's security settlement and also life cycle management so market dlt platforms can connect to the solutions that we have mentioned before for the settlement of financial instruments available to those dlt platforms the type of transactions envisioned are well delivery versus payment for primary and secondary market operations and other payments related to securities life cycle for example coupon payments dividend payments type of assets envisioned it's both listed and also unlisted securities financial instruments according to mefit available in the market dlt platforms as either native digital assets dlt assets or tokenized assets or assets actually so representation actually of existing assets that are otherwise being held in current technology there can also be additional use cases that will be considered the exact setup of these of these will depend on other partners and will be subject to an assessment by the euro system so that is actually dvp and other payment use cases so cross currency and cross border payments and central bank money as well as automated wholesale interbank market interbank payments in central bank money for example it could be in relation to actually used by commercial bank deposit tokens and then there could be a need for central bank wholesale settlement for the interbank for the interbank transactions the expectation that we have is that participants will propose delivery versus payment and payment versus payment use cases that explore the opportunities and benefits of the new technology and set up the necessary partnerships so that's up for the market so that is for for example for regarding dlt assets that would of course require that market participants find an issuer find investors trading venues etc now coming to the settlement of those assets and then and first i gave actually a conceptual view in in view of a potential steady state so just to say also to explain also of where in the trial would be deviate from this and what are the consequences of this or how do we limit any consequences for this so in a potential steady state where any of these solutions would be implemented it would be the following like it could be the following again this is a potential steady state we haven't made a commitment that any of these will be implemented but in that case it would be logical that in the trigger solution which uses together with the tips hash link existing technology central bank money would occur with the existing rtgs liquidity pot because it uses t2 so in the second solution tips hash link central bank money settlement would occur with a new liquidity pot held on the tips like platform set up by the euro system so if one applies the logic that is prevailing today for the full dlt interoperability solution the central bank money settlement would occur with a new dlt based liquidity pot held on the euro system dlt of course in the potential case of implementation the euro system as it wants to provide central bank money in a in a relevant form and in the form that market participants want to have so we would seek to seamlessly integrate any of these solution into our current infrastructure offering so that could of course relate to connectivity automated liquidity management all this however would be subject to further liquidity analysis so nothing we would actually venture into detail now and would be subject to any project decision and then and further review so it's just again the conceptual presentation the final central bank money settlement for the cash leg would be ensured by the euro system while then relying on the market dlt operator to ensure finality of the dlt securities transfer orders as is the current practice what is then the temporary setup for the trials from May to November 2024 the actual settlement would take place so for the planned start of the exploratory work in 2024 settlement in trials with real transactions would rely on a temporary construct compared to a potential steady state that i mentioned on the previous slide so the solutions of the the solution provider central bank would provide solutions specific connectivity to the different environments so for the trigger solution from the bonus bank the dl3 s dlt platform by bank the forms or for the tips tips hashling platform for the tips hashling and for the full dlt interoperability solution and the talk escrow mechanism would be set up in the rtgs system so it would lock central bank money funds during the trial process so the liquidity would be locked for intraday only for several hours a day which i will specify further nonetheless this is actually a realistic technical process where we tried with all solution on the basis of which these solutions would be assessed so in other words the feel of the solution will be like it would be real for example you instruct the payment in the exploratory liquidity and it would be actually executed with whatever the speed of the application is and this is what would be measured so even if the transaction the dvp transaction would not be legally final prior to a t2 payment at the end of the day so this is of course and and would of course also be subject to the settlement finality of the asset leg depending on the rules applicable to the eligible market dlt operator so this is a temporary setup that is specific to the trials it's not something of how it would be pursued for a potential implementation but again as mentioned at the beginning we use the current rule for target services and did not do changes for that and the escrow mechanism in the support by national centerbank banks so each local national centerbank sets up an escrow account as a temporary construct to support their own eligible market participants who wants to conduct trials with a tips hashing solution and with full dlt interoperability solutions so participants what they would do is to fund an ncb escrow account at the beginning of a trial intro of a trial intraday process so the funding is made with the full transfer of ownership of that amount to the national centerbank then on a one-to-one basis so if you pay in 10 if you fund for for 10 million euro you will get exploratory liquidity which would be minted at the start of a trial day on a one-to-one basis so you pay in 10 million then you will get exploratory liquidity for 10 million relative to the total amount held of course then on the ncb escrow account in t2 the defunding later would occur at the end of the trial day on a net basis or growth basis in some exceptional cases resulting in the final central bank money settlement of net balances during trials and target services of course what you get back depends on what you have paid or what you have received as payments so the balance at the end of the escrow account is at the end of the day is zeroed at the end of the trial day at 3 30 important to note is this is trials so we don't have a absolute high availability super redundant infrastructure in place for the purpose of the trials so from that point of view it's important to note that the liquidity use for trials should not be critical for participants to meet their obligations outside exploratory work this is to cover an unexpected case but still possible case that in case of an incident it may not be possible to transfer the liquidity back at the end of the day in that case when the case of an incident the funds would remain on the ncb's balance sheet until they're being paid out and they will not be remunerated as the funding of the escrow accounts occurs with full transfer of ownership to ncbs yeah so again it the liquidity that you use should not be critical actually for participants to meet your obligations outside the exploratory work when are the solutions available so for trials and experiments could be conducted on any business day of target services calendar during the may to november 2024 window of course you're familiar with the weekday rules and when and the few days when target services are closed so basically for the trials you can do that on any day during why the six month trial window is open for experiments there could be specific gays that we choose so that is a bespoke development there is settlement settlements under trials would occur on an intraday basis only in t2 prod so from nine o'clock to two to two o'clock settlement window for the trigger solution and from 10 to two o'clock settlement window for the tips hash link and full dlt interoperability solution the settlement under trials will be subject to volumetric limits where your limits could be added if the euro system deems this necessary so here more on the here more on the business case or on the opening hours for settlement during trials so you see there that the day is actually the day is there between nine and is open between nine and three thirty as planned and then there's a yellow is a contingency window from three thirty to five so firstly for the trigger solution so start of the day is at nine o'clock and then payment instruction can be sent to the trigger chain direct debits and credit transfer messages are being then sent to the rtgs it's useful of course to say so in blue are the activities in the rtgs in gray the activities conducted on the dlt platform so dl3s or the tips hash link trigger solution then and then the payments so the payment instructions in the trigger chain they can be actually so it can be done from between nine o'clock and two o'clock and then a two o'clock which is the end of the settlement for of the settlement window then the payment there will be payment return messages sent to rtgs or the rtgs interim account is is emptied and then there's a contingency window in case the the balances are not zero on the interim account so that the payments could be returned the funds could be returned for the tips hash link in the full dlt interoperability solution there are liquidity transfers so lt in this presentation here in the rtgs and the funding so the participants transfer the funds to the ncbs again with a full ownership transfer then the solution providing central bank creates an exploratory liquidity on the dlt platform or on the tips in the tips hash link solution as mentioned on the one-to-one basis and that is then happening until 10 o'clock and then basically the settlement in dl3s dlt and the tips hash link can take place so then actually the business can start so that's the that's the the difference also in the opening hours when you effectively can can actually do the settlement compared to the trigger solution and that actually then lasts until two o'clock when the when the solution providing central bank removes or burns the exploratory liquidity on the dlt platform and in tips hash link and then there's a realignment depending also of of how payments have been made or have been received among the ncbs and then actually the ncbs pay out to the participant according to to the result of of the payments processes during the day the payments paid the payments received and then again there's also the possibility for further realignment and defunding in case of an incident in the pier from 3 30 to 5 o'clock so this is the framework for exploratory work the design principles the timeline the solutions in scope so which have been as i as i mentioned so and also the payments that we that we foresee so it's the it's the dvp in particular but we actually also we are also one that actually dvp and sorry pvp cases and and other payments are being proposed so those we will have to consider then and there would be a case by case assessment on the non but the on the non dlt cases we may we will also reserve we will reserve the possibility for prioritizing in case we actually have run into into into volumetric limits but those actually will be informed and agreed and and everybody will know when the when the when the exploratory phase comes of of what will be possible so the next actually is then actually is the clodine from our team of course there are quite several people clodine is actually senior market infrastructure expert from my from my team but of course there have been quite some more not only at dcb but in the whole euro system working on this clodine thanks holger and so again welcome everyone so i'm working on the market innovation and integration team with holger and i'm delighted to be here today to go through the requirements for participation in the euro systems exploratory work so on the next slide you will see that the euro system will follow to the extent possible an open approach to participation and we aim to accommodate in severe as possible all market participants who become eligible to participate in our exploratory work um however there there will be certain operational boundaries due to the lightweight nature of the trials and in line with one of the key design principles already outlined by holger we will continue to rely on the existing existing regulatory function and operational framework of target services the policy for accessing central bank money will not change nor will it be modified for the purposes of exploratory work that being said we aim to support innovation and maximize learning opportunities both for ourselves in the euro system but also for the participants so with this in mind the eligibility criteria for participation in our exploratory work for these two types of participating actor namely market participants and market DLT operators so we are seeking responses on the next slide we are seeking responses to the calls for expression of interests which was launched yesterday from the two types of financial market stakeholders firstly eligible entities interested in providing DLT based platforms for wholesale security settlement relying on euro central bank money settlement of the cash leg such entities would connect to one or all of the three interoperability based solutions namely the trigger solution the tips hash link or the full DLT interoperability this would be to enable the dvp transactions and also the possibility for a broad range of operations related to securities life cycle management in addition we are also seeking responses from eligible entities who wish to access the interoperability solutions for the euro central bank money cash leg settlement payment use cases could include cross currency and cross border payments in central bank money as well as automated wholesale interbank payments in central bank money for example in relation to interlinked central bank money and commercial bank money transactions which could involve the use by commercial banks of deposit tokens with a need for wholesale settlement in central bank money eligible participants would be able to conduct trials with real settlement in central bank money in production environments and or experiments which refer to mock settlement in test environments so on the next slide it sets out our this slide it sets out the detailed eligibility criteria for the two participant types so firstly the eligible market participants so the eligible market participants for participation in the exploratory work would be any of the entities would access to T2 as set out in the target guideline so that's within the meaning of article 4 and article 7 of annex 1 part 1 of the target guideline eligible market DLT operators then would be either central securities, depositories, CSTs as authorized under the CSTR and NCB run CSTs exempted from the CSTR authorization procedure both of whom would be operating a securities settlement system based on DLT or operating a DLT platform. Operators of a DLT system or a DLT trading and settlement system as authorized under the DLT pilot regime regulation are a third category which encompasses credit institutions, investment firms, market operators and other licensed financial institutions operating a DLT platform as duly licensed under CRD 4, MIPID 2 and or other relevant national legal frameworks these would be subject to a case-by-case assessment by the EUR system to ensure proper risk management. It is important to note that the eligible market DLT operator is an entity that for the purposes of the EUR system's exploratory work is responsible and liable towards market participants for the activities occurring on the eligible market DLT platforms that they operate. We encourage interested parties to work together together to ensure that they get the most out of this exciting opportunity to experiment and trial with your system's solutions. We will however not be publishing information about the stakeholders that have shown interest in participating the exploratory work. As Holger already mentioned we expect that participants will propose DVP and PVP use cases that explore the opportunities and benefits of new technologies and that they set up the necessary partnerships. For all categories of participants, partnerships may be set up jointly to provide a DLT platform and related services to their participants. The outsourcing of provisions of services, technical infrastructure and any of the operational responsibilities to third parties would as already is the case today be subject to an assessment by the national competent authorities. Also please note that if such partnerships are set up that the entities themselves would need to individually register for the call for expressions of interest. So each party, the eligible market participant and the eligible DLT operator would need to individually submit a response or a registration form to the call for interest. Now I will hand back to Holger who will talk us through this registration process and the timeline for the next steps. Yes, exactly. So for the call for expression of interest now the background. So as said before we published it on 13 of December. The call for expression of interest is open for market participants and market DLT operators interested in the exploratory work to meet the envisioned eligibility criteria that Loudine has just mentioned. What is there to do? So the participants have to submit the registration forms which are on the website to their local national center banks. Just to be clear to the national center banks where the accounts are held in T2 or to the national center bank of the jurisdiction in which the market DLT operator is licensed if you are a market DLT operator. So this submission should actually include background information from you on your eligibility. There are more details in the form. So that includes so for demonstrating your eligibility and it's also of course on the scope of the foreseen trials and experiments and the choice of the solutions to be used. So you contact always your local national center bank and that's irrespective of whether you want to actually work with a trigger solution if you wanted to work with a tips hash link or with a full DLT interoperability solution. So for all three cases you always work through your local national center bank. Sorry just one more from the slide before please. So the deadline is actually so for the 31st of January 2024 so in January for all participants who want to start exploratory work in May so for the wave one and want to benefit from the full six month time window. The deadline for the second wave where you can start later so you have more time to maybe get your licenses sorted out etc. So that is the second window there the deadline for applications is 30 of April for the participants starting to work on the exploratory work in July 2024. Slide please. So the registration process so the registration form as said it's on the website it contains three parts which must be completed in full and submitted prior to the respective deadline we have to repeat it so 31st of January for the wave one 30 April for wave two and there so there are three parts so the first part as you see here in the yellow yellow bold part so the registration part one will be used to assess the eligibility of stakeholders for participating in the Euro systems exploratory work so again please attach all the documentation that you need in order to demonstrate that you're eligible and there is registration form part two that's solution specific so for each of the three interoperability solution that you may wish to connect to for conducting the exploratory work so you can choose there to take which one you take or that you take all I mean of course we would be interested that actually participants actually are actually involved with all three solutions if that is possible because that will allow even more easily actually a comparison of the different solution and will provide more information but you're free to choose but just fill in part two accordingly then there is part three and that comprises a request for additional information on planned use cases for exploratory work including anticipated volumes that's for planning because we put we put put some checks there in place so also just to be clear if you a financial market stakeholder wish to participate both as a market participant but also as a market DLT operator in the Euro system exploratory work in that case please actually use two forms so submit separate registration forms because that will be assessed and your eligibility will be assessed separately for the two cases on the second slide of this of the registration process I continue with the again that with the stakeholder interest in participating to wave one so for May 2024 there you're invited to submit the registration form in particular part one and part two as soon as possible to your local national centre banks again which NCB it's the NCB of the jurisdiction where the market participant has opened the T2 RTJS account or for market DLT operators the NCB of the jurisdiction where the market DLT operator is licensed and then what Claudine had said the eligibility assessment can take place based on part one of the of the form and of course additional documents provided by by by applicants following the successful completion of a preliminary check of eligibility participants will be invited to commence the testing and the onboarding process so they are yes so they are just to say so the final confirmation I mean this is the small print but I would like to to to mention that as well so the final confirmation of participate participants eligibility will only be granted at the later stage but of course prior to the commencement of the execution phase of the exploratory work because this participation is actually also subject to the governing council approval so entities subject to an ongoing process licensing process may be permitted to participate to experiments only so if the license the license I mean you can apply without having the license but the license must be there for trials before the trial start otherwise we can discuss whether you can be whether you will be permitted to run experiments so not an actual settlement in central bank money but actually mock settlements only this would be then subject to a case by case basis and subject to our discretion in looking at the individual cases then after you have submitted your applications and following an in-principle assessment of interested market participants eligibility which will be conducted after the registration forms have been received particular for parts one and part two the onboarding process where it commenced so from December to February there is the possibility but also the need to actually do mandatory testing activities in the phase one there we test connectivity and basic operational functional tests with the illegal market participants and also with illegal market DLT operators on February to April following the completion of the phase one testing so this is so that must have been one I mean the testing activity phase one mandatory and has to be completed successfully thereafter there would be the mandatory testing activity of phase two so that would comprise in particular a full day rehearsal and of course it's also necessary to sign the legal framework as I've explained on the chart before between the eligible market participants the eligible market DLT operators and the euro system so there the contracts have to be there also before trials trials take place and also the exploration phase takes place and general takes place then again wave one as as illustrated by that icon start again is in May and in June and July there's an additional onboarding window for participants to the second wave so that actually in July the start of the exploratory phase of wave two so trials and experiments could take place so summary I go in the top actually in the top I mean row by row so firstly again the exploratory work is foreseen for duration of six months from May to November 2024 then the three on interoperability solutions that we have introduced can be tested in parallel or sequentially so we offer them parallel and it's up for you to see whether you want to work with them in parallel or sequentially but on our side we offer them in parallel certainly the participants can participate from from May wave one and from July wave two I think I've mentioned enough enough times actually when the deadlines are during the exploration work the participants will provide the regular reporting on the results of trials and the experiments to the euro system so that we can assess this then also the trials are foreseen on a regular basis during the time window when the trials are open so the trials are foreseen on the regular base so all of the working days of t2 with a limited settlement window however from 9 10 o'clock as I had explained before until 2 o'clock and lastly the experiments in contrast to the trials they can be executed on the predefined days so where we look into our euro system I mean our operational boundaries which we can can decide on for experiments with an experiment specific framework yeah thank you and with that one I opened the floor for questions where where as mentioned before so you can write those in the chat and you can send also the email to mip.events at ecb.europa.eu so super so just giving you guys a short breathing break there for Holger and Claudine thank you so much a lot of information here we already had a few questions on registration and eligibility but they were covered I think they came before you guys presented it so I think we're fine participants out there if you still have questions on this then shoot them in the chat or via email if we did if you didn't think we followed up on that afterwards but I think we did also just to mention to everyone we're searching here in the question so give us a few minutes but also to mention to everyone the recordings of the whole session will be posted on the event webpage afterwards so you will have the opportunity to go through everything again also the slides we'll replace all the slides as well so there's a lot of information here we understand there's a lot of information on the slides that will be accessible to all of you very shortly after the session today so do not worry also Holger referred a lot to the call for expression of interest all the information on that call is also on the website it's all the links everything is there as well we in the chat we have posted the links to all of this so so you can access that directly for the ones viewing the live stream we will also make sure we share this with everyone and for that I just want to do a quick you know follow us on all our our communication channels we have a newsletter if you follow this you get you know first-hand information of everything we do so sign up for that same email address also the we have a LinkedIn group where we also post everything so there's big opportunities to get the information first hand but with that I want to hand over to Claudine and Holger so quickly see if there are any questions in the in the chat or the emails that you think we have not covered so over to you I might I might got forced I can see a question there that seems to be related to the section that I covered it's it's relating to cash on the chain and if it is foreseen that commercial bank digital currency would be on the your system's solutions or would wholesale central bank money be on the external platform so in answer to this I suppose market participants could provide commercial bank money facilities and test their interbank settlement in in central bank money however it it is important to note that the commercial bank money tokens themselves would remain on platforms external to the euro system but these platforms could then be connected to the the central bank solution providing solutions so the euro system solution so there's the connection between the two platforms but central bank money will remain within the euro systems perimeter and the commercial bank money tokens would remain external to this and and would be provided by by the market okay okay sorry I'm just screening actually I'm screening screening the the questions here um yeah so there's a lot of questions so bear with us everybody you're shooting in this is great news but just give us a few seconds here to go through this is the fantastic thing about doing it all live yes so one one question was also if there's a group somebody called it a consortium project so there is uh which involves for example one market operators and several market participants so will we can we can we apply I mean can we get the will we make a the contract with a quote unquote consortium or not so indeed as the question was also suggested so everybody has to apply for themselves so because we will actually look at everybody also I mean individually it makes also the paperwork easier if you actually are also involved on the reversely if you are involved if you want to do for example work together with several groups then just specify that clearly in your supporting documentation so everybody for themselves so to say for the for the application but please provide all of the overview of what you want to do and if you do several I mean if you want to do several things you mentioned that clearly with and if you of course already know with whom it is then please specify to us so that we can also put it together but the legal work will be actually on a on a bilateral basis with everybody and again if you if you have two different roles so as a DLT market operator or as a market participant again it's two forms as well we also have a few questions again on the legal side of it but maybe you've you've mentioned this Holger but maybe you just want to stress that again who is it that can apply it's the ones that already are applicable with the target services maybe you want to highlight that one again so we have a few questions on that sorry so we have a few questions again you hear me we have a few questions again on the legal side of it like who can participate maybe you want to stress that one one more time you've mentioned this in the presentation but I think Claudine maybe if will you take that yes I can take that so you could flick back to slides 20 or 33 I think it was no 35 sorry as to who can apply so we have the the previous slide to that maybe no previous again the other anyway the who can apply market participants so those participants that already have access to target two in terms of the target guideline and the market DLT platform operators so those operators that are authorized under CSDR so CSDs and those operators that operate a DLT under the DLT pilot regime and then the third category is credit institutions investment firms other licensed financial institutions that are operating a platform licensed under national frameworks so the national transposition of CRD for MIFI to or other national legal frameworks in some jurisdictions there's there's specific national frameworks governing our licensing and these entities for that third category of participants it would be subject to a case by case assessment to ensure that there's an equivalent risk management proper risk management procedures and regimes in place that would be equivalent to the say CSDR or the DLT pilot regime so there the two categories of participants that can apply and the call for interest sets out what's on this slide also and gives a bit more detail around what evidence is required and what the case by case assessment would cover but essentially it is an almost equivalent assessment just to ensure that that the systems remain functioning in a safe and efficient manner because we have to be cognizant that it is real central bank money that we are talking about settlement settling in trials and just on that I know that I think I saw a couple of questions regarding what's the difference between trials and experiments so trials will involve real central bank money in ultimately in target two so in our RTGS system of the cash leg whereas experiments the transactions are simulated transactions their test transactions are mock transactions transactions in test environments so it would not involve settlement of real money real cash leg transactions in target two so I think I've covered two questions there I hope that sufficiently covers yeah there was also a question now I mean I have to admit it's a challenge to read and sort out the many questions so if I read that well so regarding the that that innovation starts without licenses because of course it's innovation there's a disruption so that's true that's also what and that's where it needs to prove of concepts and maybe something at a smaller scale might be possible but just one point just to say here so we provide this I mean and you bank on you rely on that central bank money is the safest settlement asset so it's very clear that it's it's very clear that actually we want that the impact on target services I mean there's no adverse impact on on our services that we provide hence hence we actually insist there also for the trials that everything is is licensed so that's that that is important that's important to say we also do know of course there's always a trade-off between safety and innovation so we do know that and that's why why we for example also said that that for experiments where there's not an actual settlement in central bank money still it uses our our test environment but where there's not an extra settlement of central bank money we can be more flexible so we could if somebody has asked for a license but didn't get it for example decide that that entity could participate there and of course we are we are looking then in particular at so we we care as you see because we have kind of two type of participants it's well the banks are those with target I mean access to target so that's the that's one and then we have the market DLT operator there might of course be other parties involved like service providers or so that's I mean we will we we could we actually make contracts only with the with a market participant and with the DLT operator if there are the service providers I mean all that needs to be of course done in a in a safe way but there is scope for for others to to come in there I don't know is there anything else you would like to add on that Odin yeah I think you you've touched on it but maybe just to say that this eligible market DLT operators could partner with the technology providers that them stay themselves say the technology providers are not licensed but there's nothing in our setup there's we were not putting in any rules to say that those technology providers cannot partner with an eligible market DLT operator and then it's the the market DLT operator that will say apply to our register interest to participate in the trials and experiments but they will be working in conjunction with the technology providers that they themselves are not licensed yeah yeah and there are other questions so would we first need to apply to that I mean to the for example to the DLT pilot regime or other licenses of course that Odin have mentioned and then apply here well basically you can do that in parallel but logically I mean but we will look at that have do you have the license or is it in progress then for experiments but for trials it has to be one of the one of the points there um yeah so there was also again Holger you thought you said it a lot but there was a few questions again on the timeline I'm just showing here one of the slides not this one let me try to find the the right one with the with your timeline on there was a question on that one so we can just place that on the screen this one there was a few questions on that again so for everyone you know so really guys appear with us with a lot of questions maybe I use that occasion because I saw there were also questions for and what about 2025 timeline so point one the call for expression of interest is open since 13 December you can apply as of now so after this session you log off download the form fill it in as said so and then as said also if you have uh if you have actually well download the form fill it in and actually applied then there will be an illegibility assessment which can happen anytime now so if you want to participate for the full six month as of May you can do that from now over Christmas until 31st of January when the illegibility assessment on in principle illegibility assessment is positive then actually the testing like the connection test that can start actually very quickly there will also be later on after that is completed and it's it's clear that you will actually participate then we can also do the more complex testing like going through the trial days but but the testing has to be the first testing has to be completed before and then there is the other testing and in May it's clear when it starts you must have successfully done the testing you must have by May all licenses in place so that actually you can participate as of wave one you have more time for the testing for the licensing to clarify that if you participate for wave two because there the deadline for applying is in April and then um and then you uh you can actually start the exploratory work as of July make it more complicated you can of course already now apply for wave two but we look at all the applications for wave one and wave two together after the deadline um and then in November again the explorer exploratory work so trials and experiments will stop then in November for all participants no matter when you started and what happens then that's I mean that's the uh that's the unknown of course what we will do as said before we asked you for data I mean you participants in this so we ask for data so we will evaluate this we will evaluate the finding and see what lessons to learn we will also this I mean we will also use we have a contact group which is uh why you can you can think of it as a sounding board for us we will actually discuss aggregate findings there and and and and ask them also to help us to complement our internal analysis and and help us to to make the best conclusions out of what we have learned from that well and then it depends on the result I mean on the results that we have what we do there is of course also um Ulrich Binzald in the first presentation he had shown uh he had shown other possibilities which are not based on interoperability so the integration and the distribution approach as we call it so we will then have to evaluate thereafter I mean the one thing is uh well to pursue this much further of course makes only sense if if if actually the market is really using DLT or is moving in this direction so that's the one thing otherwise I mean it will be a nice nice analysis um uh that we have done but it's if the market is not using it there's not necessarily a need for center banks to make center bank money available in that form that's one point so from that point of view even if results are nice everything works fine anything could be implemented but if the market doesn't move there's no reason for actually launching a big project which will which will be an intensive investment um and continue this if the market continues to move in that direction the center bank again we have the interest to provide center bank money in a form that is relevant for the market then we have to see what is the most suitable form there will also be other policy questions what is the best form to do this uh is it is it one of the models we have implemented now is it something else that will depend on the findings on policy considerations that we have and developments uh and developments that are there um so of course don't just let you breathe the yeah okay go ahead so of course if if you were looking for a specific answer this is simply not possible uh at this moment I mean we are of course also fully aware of other discussions for I mean for example if you consider the the BIS uh the unified unified ledgers uh global layer ones we are also I mean we're also monitoring these developments see what has to be done in any case we think that actually the interoperability which we which we now is the focus of this exploratory work it's important to have these features because uh because the I mean for many for many years I mean that we they're in even for for those who think that actually the DLT is the main scenario the market will move in this direction it's unclear that actually well if one looks at now some people still use faxes to correspond with their custodians um there is a use of different standards um so if one looks at that now there can be the case that actually different jurisdictions move at different speed it can be within the market some are very advanced some move slower so there will be existing technology for quite some time there might be DLT uh so one always has to think about how does one actually link those two worlds and some interoperability so even in the scenario where the DLT is the future there will always be a case where one needs DLT uh I mean interoperability part also you may as a bank for example you may have actually some things where you do trade financing supply chain uh relations so you will have to see not everything may be on the same DLT platform anyway so some interoperability mechanism is always is always needed and we look I mean and and think of what will be our next step after the results of this exercise taking into account other external developments and taking into account other policy uh considerations that Mr Binzal mentioned actually in this in this welcome speech all right good I'll just let you go through and see a few more there was a there was it's been like Christmas right the Claudine there was a question on the on the solutions on the NCB's actually we would talk more about that that is coming everybody so after the break we will go into details on this so you know just that's coming that's coming but just to say uh well it's Christmas uh maybe but actually so this is not just this is not just us doing a gift so just to be just to be clear so I mean we provide the we provide the opportunity now I mean uh for you to actually take part in this exploration work including then the trials with actual settlement in central bank money so it's it is uh it's a rather innovative approach of what we do there we help to foster innovation with that and of course again we actually do that also because we want to see of if that is relevant for the market how can we provide central bank money in the form that is useful for the market but in the end it is an opportunity also for you and actually it is also for the market to actually find and demonstrate the business cases use cases for what can be done how can it be done how is it useful not just for you also for your clients for for all the various actors in the market and on different markets so the responsibility for kind of I mean for for making the idea success that's up for the markets to come up with with those and this is an opportunity that you can use um and then again on us is the point of okay if the market is going in that direction if the market is doing this so what will be a relevant way to do it and of course in the efficient one we will have to look at both at our perspective but also the overall market how can it be work efficiently and what are what is the cost benefit of various solutions if they have to be implemented okay so yeah I know that we have the solution providers yet to come but there's been a couple of questions about uh interoperability between the solutions themselves so maybe if you want to I think it's slide 20 where we have the overview of yes this one um so um the market DLTs will connect have a technical connection to the individual solution providing a solution so a technical collection to either the um trigger the DL3 DLT or the tip sesh link or three if they could have potentially three connections when we're testing interoperability it's between the market DLTs the your system solutions and ultimately target services it's not interoperability between the three solutions the trigger DL3 S and the tip sesh link so um with say a market DLT can't connect to the Bundesbank trigger and then use that in order to connect into the other two or the market participant for that matter in terms of the market participants I think it's important also to differentiate here in terms of the liquidity and the exploratory liquidity there is a different approach for the DL3 S DLT and the tips sesh link versus the trigger chain in that we have the escrow mechanism and the funding slash defunding for the DL3 S and the tips sesh link so for the escrow mechanism the market participants need to lock that liquidity in the target system the target two platform their dedicated cash accounts they need to transfer though that liquidity whatever liquidity they plan on using during the day they transfer that to the NCB their local NCB at the start of the day that liquidity that's transferred is then converted into exploratory liquidity on the the solution for use in DVPs or PVPs or whatever transactions are happening on an intraday basis between the your system solutions and the market DLT platforms at the end of the day then between the window after two o'clock between two o'clock and three thirty the defunding takes place the reconciliation and then there are liquidity transfers back to the market participants on target two with respect to the the equivalent amount that they would have remaining on their wallets or their accounts on the your system solutions at the end of the day so it's about testing interoperability between the your system solutions and the market DLTs not between the various your system solutions themselves I hope that's clear and also there was a question I saw on whether technology prove I mean sorry no another one whether whether actually participants once the trial starts have to announce concrete transactions executing the concrete transactions to the euro system before they happen uh should should it be shared uh ex ante so there I would refer to what I mentioned as for the registration part three so to give us actually please additional information on planned use cases for exploratory work and on the slide we already said that indeed including anticipated volumes uh and of course there will be a dialogue with you so while on a normal day with normal transactions you don't tell us before what you are what you're doing this for the trial it is somewhat different so we have some operational boundaries as I said we have a strong interest nothing just there must be no adverse effect on on target services so we have some we have put some operational boundaries so let us know so that we can that we can plan that accordingly as as I said so some operational boundaries may apply we have to see whether they will whether we will they will be effective or whether or whether actually everything stays within but but they they could apply there could be restrictions and and and maybe that could speak for discussing of whether one can do that uh well I mean adjust a little bit the timing of something so that it's not framed all on one day for example that's of course again it's something which is specific for the trials that is not if if ever this was implemented or something similar this is of course not how it would work in the future that's the point of that we do something with life systems systems I see one or two questions regarding um eligibility assessments and um the legal agreements and and who best to talk to of course uh any follow-up questions can be directed to us both with regard to the assessments themselves and and the direct engagement um I would suggest that as a first port that you would engage with your local NCB because in particular for the the national uh legal frameworks uh it's the the local NCB and the national competent authorities that are best placed to um assess these and and um they will be assessing um the um it called for interests that come in to the local national central bank so as with uh current target services the um direct relationship with the market participants remains with the the national central bank yeah and then also I mean I would really encourage of course in this presentation some things we highlighted I think on the date mentioned it many times uh but of course there's much more information in our material so I would really suggest you to read that material I mean I was talking for example uh about the uh operational boundaries so we have put for example uh in the documentation that we have provided so then volumetric limits and trials and experiments and operations in T2 and trials so we have actually put that uh into the documentation so please look at the call for expression of interest read it very carefully before you reply uh and and then look at that so there's much more information there so please read all the documents very important so that it's clear what you're doing and otherwise again I think there are many many points on the licensing etc but I think that actually uh Claudin has been has been clear that actually which licenses are possible for us in this in this euro system in this euro area set up where we actually do the do the trials and experiments so um so it it must be something which is licensed I mean which which is for licenses that are applicable here then Claudin colleagues are there questions that we ought to do so we will look again we will look actually with a bit more calm later on uh and if there are questions which are not covered in the material uh that is already published if there are um but but so they are they are relevant question and they're not covered in the material etc we may actually put out a further q&a document I don't want to promise it depends on the case so we will look more carefully at it because many questions I believe the answer I mean the answers to many of the questions will become clear when you read carefully the documentation and of course for some details again there's the local national center bank where you apply you contact them there's also the details of who the contacts are how to contact the national center bank so that you can look at that because there are also some questions which may be very specific for for you so uh so there there has to be better a bilateral discussion than on this all right thank you Holger thank you Claudin um so I said lots of questions so we will go through all of them after the event as well um but one one last you all like I found one more that he just wants to I mean uh so really want to emphasize because there are questions on the finality so we take care of the cash lag and now for the trials uh I mean really be look carefully also at the rules for the DLT operator who um for that one to ensure the settlement finality of the asset leg so um so that I mean you must go through I mean really for everything I mean it's real money so so really go carefully through all documentation that will be provided uh so that it's clear of uh what what you're up to so we for the purpose of the trials um so for the purpose of the trials we take care of the cash there and then and maybe just to to compliment that all Holger just to say that um essentially atomic settlement is going to be simulated on the the DLT platform so on DL3S and the tips hash link in particular um that actual settlement in central bank money will only occur when the liquidity transfers and the defunding happens at the end of the settlement today so it'll be a couple of hours later between the period of two to three thirty when the actual settlement finality of the the central bank money cash leg takes place but for the purposes of trials it's simulated and as as Holger already mentioned during his presentation it will feel and is meant to represent as close as possible what would happen in a steady state scenario but this is a trial set up specific to trials and the escrow mechanism and the defunding process has been constructed in order to allow us to provide the the platforms to to the industry at at this juncture to carry out the trials what settlement finality of the central bank money cash leg will only take place when the defunding happens