 Welcome back to the breakfast here on Clause TV Africa. Our focus now moves to Ogun state where there seems to be crisis brewing in a Oloke Meiji community where farmers and headers seem to once again be at loggerheads after of course an indigent of the community was killed. Some cows apparently also died as a result of a farm being poisoned and you know others. We're speaking this morning with Mr. Mohammed Abubakar the secretary of Macban in Ogun state. Good morning and thanks for joining us Mr. Abubakar. Good morning. All right we hope that we have good enough network to have this conversation but quickly fill us up fill us in with what exactly has taken place in Ogun state in the last couple of days. There's reports that indigents of the community are fleeing for their safety. What seems to be going on? All right we'll try to reconnect with you. Yes we're having issues hearing you clearly so we'll try to reconnect with you. So he's basically you know kickstarting the conversation talking about what exactly happened but we'll try to get back because that network quality isn't perfect at all so we're doing it to get to the bottom of the smarter. Find out what exactly is happening. If we're having cases where farmers are poisoning their own land because herders are encroaching on it then it's there's a problem something needs to be fixed. For me it's the wildest part is the fact that we are now in a you know a place where people can decide all you poison our cows we're going to attack you people attack your villages attack your communities without any fear that they will be arrested without any fear that this is breaking the law that you shouldn't go take another person's life or destroy a person's property simply because you're angry that your cow had constipation. Good morning. Mr. Wubaka, good morning once again. Yeah so struggle this morning with the network I'm not sure what's going on but as we try to reconnect with him that's for me is the wildest part that you know people can decide or there's going to be reprisal attacks and the conversation we're having this morning is about how government can create peace in the community and how we can find you know you know a middle ground you and you try to calm nerves and all of that you would go to jail that should be the answer to killing anybody or destroying anyone's property that should be the answer. See how should we look at this should we look at it from the angle of all the herdsmen to count their losses because in the first place they did not poison your cows according to the statement that's what we have Mr. Mohamed Abubaka, secretary of manpower to explain their no the cows were not if the factor right their land was poisoned they poisoned their farmland not the they didn't give the cows something to eat and they died they poisoned their own farmland so anybody even if it's a human man who goes in there to steal something then becomes a victim of whatever was done to the land so we will really see that way and say you know we did not poison your cows we're poison our farmland so if you come in you bear the consequences of whatever it is or how else do we begin to look at this because if we get to the point where do you know what a cost to farm and what what the prices of foodstuff are saying in the market if it has gotten to the point where the farmers have it up to their throat that they have to take such a drastic action to basically send a warning to herders not to encroach on their farmland then it just shows how bad the situation is you cannot buy tomatoes to make a little pot of stew these days with all the money you have and you'll be comfortable I mean things are expensive so if farmers are trying to make ends meet you know contribute to Nigeria's food food security and all of that and we're having issues you know cattle basically destroying that are making a mess of those efforts then so earlier we had spoken about the anti-open grazing law you know and how it should be in place in Ogun state so in the first place we shouldn't even be having this conversation if people have respected the anti-open grazing law if we're talking about open grazing being banned in a place like Ogun state then in the first place we can say that the herdsmen you know the action of encroaching on people's farmland openly is illegal truth or false is that something we cannot agree on so why don't we begin to tackle the root causes of issues you know I believe that when southern governors meet today and allow Saikeja these are the things they should begin to talk about why is it so difficult to get farmers or to get to get protection for farmland so do we do we need to now have every farmer build a fence and put a gate on their farmland I mean how bad does it get no that's what we're saying how bad doesn't it get before we begin to get government intervention in cases like this because somebody even had to die I'll go back to you know realizing where we are as a country the fact that there is even conversations of reprisal attacks and indians have to flee their communities for their safety because there is a possibility that they will be attacked because a couple of cows had constipation at Daria after eating or encroaching on another person's farm and eating their crops there is no fear there is no regard for the fact that that is unlawful there's no fear that you will be arrested and you will prosecuted for taking another person's life or for destroying another person's property so we are the place where these things are almost normal and so what we need to do instead is find ways to you know create peace in the society get you know the leaders of magban get the traditional religion community to all meet and you know negotiate anyone tell the tell the you know the catur eras not to attack I can't believe that that's where we are because it is it is a crime that should take you to jail and so any person who is bold enough at this point to say oh they you know poison their their their crops and now my cows are sick and I'm going to attack their communities shows that you don't have any fear of being arrested by the police you have it you don't have any fear of whatever the laws of the state are I'm shocked that we we still are here so yes you know you might bring up the anti-open grazing law and say you know how how has this really been implemented in other states maybe you know you would not care of these things anymore but it would take maybe also needs to do better but it takes you back to when we used to say how many people have been arrested for the murder of indigens of communities across Nigeria how many can you point to and say oh this person we're going to make an example of this person he's going to get 10 15 years in jail for being a part of the raid that left 15 people dead in the community because of a farmer's headers clashes we're going to send this person to jail for 20 years or for 12 years because cattles were russeld and they found that that they are cattles rustlers and they're causing chaos in the community how many people would you point to in this whole conversation we've had in the last six years 10 years 20 years that you can say okay this person is in jail now because of the crimes that they committed and when you don't punish people for those crimes it gives others the boldness to say that our cows now have constipation because they ate because they first of all encroached on your land and ate your crops so we're going to come back and attack this community that's the boldness that it gives people for not punishing the crimes the crimes of exactly and that's why this has continued the first time because how would how would the education of millions of people in in a state be threatened such that schools are closed down people have to seek refuge elsewhere because of cattle when you reward when you reward criminal behavior with silence and you ignore it it gives you know the rise to many many more of those criminals two weeks ago we spoke about the bandit who was boasting of killing um soldiers to the jails of others yes and until today and did nothing till today there hasn't been any response from the nandria government to say oh we find that completely distasteful and that person will be found and apprehended and will be sent to to jail or we you know for his crimes there is no there's no we've not had that conversation so it almost feels like that person um i'm very sure that if we had that conversation with you know the nandrian government that there's going to be a person who would come out a shake maybe to defend that bandit and say well uh well you know he's angry you know we need to find way to give them amnesty and some other some other things like that that's what you get when you reward such behavior so instead of the ogun state government to ensure and put his foot down and say that and there will be no such reprisal attack in my state and if you dare even think it you will be sent to prison or you will be jailed and all your cows will be confiscated or whatever it is instead of us to do that we instead having conversations on television talking about how we can create peace in the community and what the traditional rulers need to do to ensure that there is peace yes there's always going to be a space for for dialogue there's always going to be that space for things like that but when it gets to a level where lives are being lost where indians have had to flee their communities where people can no longer go to school then we need to actually start to put our foot down on some of all these things the longer you continue to ignore you the longer you let these criminals continue to walk around the streets after committing crimes against the nandrian state the more of them you know you will continue to see and it may just never end and it's funny how we see the solution is just within reach simply arrest prosecutors but when will we ever see that happen you know hopefully we can bring the secretary of the miyatiala categories association in the genes of the community like we had today we'll apologize that that net of difficulty didn't allow for that conversation to go on but we still need to get the fact of this case and see how we can work together for a solution thank you very much my name is Aneta Felix it's been a pleasure conversing with you for the last two hours about you know top stories in Nigeria it's been the breakfast and plus TV Africa I'm just going to quickly see if I say my goodbyes I remember when you spoke about the poison of farmland I remember sometime in Enugu when so I used to park my cars at a certain place at night because I had someone I was going to go visit that stayed in the that stayed in a kind of rough area it's called a viago in Enugu so I used to park my car there at night you know spend the night you know leave in the morning so I remember that there are certain times when I would get up in the morning I'd get up in the morning you know get to my car and realize that someone has broken into my car and taken something you know sometimes it's food stuff you know you know oranges cakes whatever whatever I left in the car face caps t-shirts you know this time I lost money about 26 000 so I remember that time that I decided I was going to buy oranges and I was going to you know poison poison I was going to poison the oranges I put them in the car for whoever it is you know that wants to because they happen like three times they broke it back up about three times um so I was saying I was going to put you know inject this oranges with rat poison so whoever it is that decides that they want to break into the car again and you know see this fresh juicy orange no the friends but they needed it I eventually didn't do it though but I considered it I really did anyway thanks for joining us it's been a great monday morning I am Osaogi Agmawan see you tomorrow