 Okay, we're back. We're live. It's Wednesday. And we just had Trump week. I hope you guys enjoyed yourself. And now we're having, now we're having Coronaville, Coronaville. What's next? And we're examining how the epidemic is doing, the pandemic is doing, trying to get a handle on where it's going. And what that means to us is a complicated thing. It moves a lot. It moves fast every day. So today we have, I'm just going around the pictures on Zoom here. We have Stephanie Dalton. We have Winston Welch. Then we have Cynthia Sinclair, our heroes in the report on Trump world, if you will. So what do you think? What has happened this week that tells us where we're going? Are we going to be able to reopen safely? It seems like there's a lot of discord between Trump and various governors and between the governors and the legislatures and between the governors and legislatures and the people. There's a lot of disagreement going on. Stephanie, what do you think? Is this going to work out or is this a really bad sign going forward? Well, I think that if there's a little more knowledge, people are trying to absorb that and using it for their own purposes. I think a lot of people see who are, who the groups are, the subpopulation groups who are impacted by this virus the most. And it turns out that for many people, it's not them. So I think people are surveying and scanning to see where is it that people are getting hit and they're not among those groups as much. Of course, you've got your occasional. So I think that that's driving a lot of the decisions to behave in the way they are because those who are not in the at-risk groups are going back to normal and they're going to do that. Now, I think the leadership is a little bit different. Trump doesn't care. He just wants the economy up. But the governors and the mayors and who are in more specific areas differentially impacted are looking after the welfare of their people. Though I salute them for making that. Winston, how do you feel about this? Are we in the right place here or are we bound for our recurrence? Well, we're in the right place in Hawaii because we don't have any cases. But, you know, I want to keep an open mind and say, okay, what is going on with this virus? We don't know. We're in a giant basic petri dish around the world and this nation and each state is having its own policies. The problem with the other ones, except for Alaska, which is separate, is that they're all connected to each other very closely. So, driving across an imaginary line and you're in a different state with different rules, it's going to be a little bit harder to follow things. You know, what if you're in Delaware and you have a big reunion but you go back to Philadelphia? So, we're going to be seeing what happens exactly out of this. Here in Hawaii, we can keep the doors closed. Let's wait it out. Let's see what happens in a month from now as you're seeing people basically say, I don't care. I'm trying to be cooped up. I want to go to the bar or church or whatever it is. We're going to find out here very shortly and hopefully maybe the virus will die out. We don't know but we're going to find out here soon. Yeah, Winston's referring to something I mentioned before we started the show, namely an article about an Israeli researcher that claims that 70 days ago he predicted the virus would die out and he says that his prediction is coming true. I'm not sure that's so. In Russia, for example, they're having a terrible time. A lot of people are dying, a lot of infection, a lot of suicides by the health workers. Anyway, okay, Cynthia, your thoughts about this and let me lead by saying that I think we've established that what Trump wants is money and power. They're related, I suppose, and the longer he stays in power, the more money he'll make because he's taking it with both hands and one hand behind his back and he's got his hands all over the till. So he wants to stay and it's really important to him to win this election and as far as he's concerned, the coronavirus is all secondary to that. If he can swing it in his way and win the election, if he can swing the economy in his way and win the election, that's all it counts. But what are your thoughts about whether we are going to have an effective reopening or not? You know, he stands there and calls it a badge of courage that we've only lost, you know, almost 100,000 people that have died. We've got a million cases. And now we're going back to full tilt boogie in some places. I was just reading this morning about how this weekend they're going to have a giant graduation ceremony in Alabama. And I think, well, in two weeks from now, we're going to know, but we still have, you know, the numbers are still going up every day. We lost 1,400 people yesterday. 1,400 people. That's a lot of people to die. So for Trump to call this a badge of honor just sort of makes me a little sick. Yeah, well, there's two parts to going back to the economy. One part is working. And our survey, our think tech survey reported at least among our people who responded to us here in Hawaii, although some of them may be elsewhere, is that most people are working at home. A lot of people are still employed working at home. They're using Zoom. They're using their computers. They're finding a new way to do work productively. They haven't taken a hit on pay. They're working at home. And I think that's probably so in other places too, maybe not to the same degree. So one side of it is working. Now, if you work in a restaurant, the restaurants closed, you're not working. If you're working a manufacturing plant and they got a lot of COVID there, you're not going to be working probably. But the other side of this is just how exactly are people living their lives around COVID? And are they ready to go to a restaurant? Are they ready to go out? We had one guest on the show a couple of days ago and he said, oh, I went to a fancy restaurant. He lives in Florida. I went to a fancy restaurant with my wife. We really needed to get out of the house. I said, you wear a mask? He says, yeah, we wore a mask until the food came. And when the food came, we ate the food. And when we were finished with the food, we put the masks back. He said, what kind of life is that? And this may be a long-term condition. But what I'm saying is that it's one thing to work at home. It's another thing to go out, to go to a restaurant. That's the other part of the economy. So there's the part that produces and the part that helps people consume, I guess, where you have like restaurant places where people congregate. So what's the step transaction on this? Everybody, including David Igay, talking about multiple steps. And you look at it and if you can test, you test and track and all that. But is that the most effective way? Is it happening even if it is effective? What do you think, Winston? It seems like a reasoned approach and in a state like this where we're having virtually no new infections, one a day, on one of the islands. It seems like it's something where you can get a grip on it. It's the tourist and people coming in that could be bringing this in and throwing everything off because you land, you go to your hotel just checking in and taking the bus or taxi, whatever, to Waikiki. You've already come into contact with a dozen people. So, you know, it's not an easy answer. But I saw, you know, people playing basketball, for example, that's not on the list right now, but people are out doing it. Mostly, I think we're pretty law and order conscious here that says, don't do this, people aren't doing it, or they're supposed to be doing it. They are doing it. This is a matter of course. It seems like a reasonable outline of what they've done. I might tinker with it a little bit, but because we are an island, country, nation, state, I don't want to paraphrase the governor of California too much about calling us a nation state, but in fact we can close our borders and we have. So we have a chance to maybe model for the rest of the nation, although like I said earlier. Well, we're an island state though. It's hard to compare us with Montana, you know. It is, and we don't have people coming over the border. So while we could open up and if there's no COVID here, it really wouldn't matter if you opened up everything. If there's no COVID, the islands are pristine in that in that regard. Having COVID or not having COVID is really, really critical to our future. We have to brand Hawaii as a safe place. If we start having a resurgence, and if tourists come in and affect the local people, they're going to get ticked off. And so you know that the problem is we, it's for us is so much more critical that we don't have COVID in Waikiki. Because if we do, people won't come here. We won't have an economy and we'll have to rebuild our brand somehow and demonstrate to the world that we're safe. I'm concerned about that. But let's talk about whether you, Stephanie, you go to a restaurant, you wear a mask. Are you afraid to go out? Are you limiting your moves now? Even if David Igay says it's okay, are you going to take advantage of that possibility? Oh, no, I'm going to continue to be careful. And I think hopefully most of the majority have learned lessons about hygiene and going forward. I don't even mind continuing to wear a mask because that's what Asia does. And if you look out and see who's what numbers and recovery, these are countries that believe in masks and wear masks. So I think that we've got lessons still to learn and our outcomes are still to really implement. We can make predictions, but we're not going to get the data on this last run of opening for a while that's going to be informative. So yeah, I'm okay with going with it. But I'll follow the directions. I think as most of Hawaii citizens do, the rest of the country and where I'm going to go to D.C. They're not following directions. And so they've got disasters, you know, they can't flatten, they can't plateau, they can't bring it down. So it's the leadership is having a real challenge in some of these places where it's not coming down as they expected it to do so. So I think people are going to learn lessons. Yeah, there's a new experience for us and for government and government as you may have noticed sometimes make mistakes. I'll go and reckon about that. And they may not be right in the policies and procedures they set up. So we may be victims if they're wrong. I mean, for example, we know now that COVID spreads by my mostly by micro what they call it droplets. Okay, which stay in a room for what 16 minutes we know, and it can effectively it's more than six feet it can fill the room, and you can catch it that way. And nothing has changed. That's the part that really troubles me is when Trump gets up and says, it's okay. And I quote, we're back to title of our show. We're back. We have prevailed. What exactly have you done to prevail? Have you provided PPE? Have you provided mass? Have you provided testing to the country? Have you set up protocols or everybody can really get a test whenever he wants it? No, you haven't done anything. I'm sorry. I'll go and reckon about that too. You haven't done anything. So why have we prevailed? Why are we back? Why should we risk our lives in the economy? It's not clear to me what his thought process is, except that I know it's flawed. So speaking of flawed thought process, what do you think of his thought process on this point, Cynthia? Well, he's behind everything and in everything. And if you think about it, we had started opening states, what, a week and a half ago, Georgia and Florida and some of the states were already starting to open on their own, un-safely, and then, what was it, yesterday or the day before, he came out with the guidelines for safe opening. And I thought that's, again, here we are shutting the barn door after all the horses are gone. It seems like that's how he approaches everything. It's like after the fact, we get this notice, oh, here's the safe way to do it. It's like, oh, too late now, everybody's already done it. So I'm just behind in everything. Why is he doing that, Winston? Why is he backing and filling on this sort of thing where you can't tell from one day to the next what he wants, what he expects people to do, what he wants to order people to do? I think, as Stephanie said earlier, it's a shiny ball. It's a shiny object just to distract us so that we aren't paying attention to the election coming up and ways to disrupt that or to say, oh, look over there, look over there, look over there. And we are so, we have all become, we all have Trumped Arrangement Syndrome. It is not possible, not to. Whether we're Trumpicans or just watching the disaster unfold, we are all affected by this man and have given him such power and meaning that it's really insane when you step back and look at it. But right now, I think this is what he's playing this to his base that says he's tying this into your freedom of religion, freedom of guns, freedom of movement. I get it. It's a convenient ploy. I don't know that anything that he says is, well, it's meaningful to have the nation and then the rest of us are just reacting to it. So, however, when you, it may be that there could be, keeping our minds open, there may be alternatives out there that just say, okay, you know, like the article last week where Cliff Slater came out and said we can have a phased opening here where we keep vulnerable populations effectively still cloistered, but the rest of us go out. Like Stephanie said, there's no guarantee that there's any herd immunity with this or not. But essentially that's what he's saying is just 80% of the people let him get it. They may get sick. Most of them won't know they have it from what we're telling, but we really don't know what this virus is doing. That's what's happening in the mainland now. That's what happened, been happening in Sweden to some effects like this, although they are sequestering a big portion of their population. We're going to, we're going to find out what's working and what's not working. And we may not know for three or four years down the road, but a lot of these results are even if the same burns out. But I am just guessing we're going to have a resurgence here. So in Hawaii, we have a choice. Are we going to keep the borders closed? Are we going to wait out eight months? If we do, we're going to have to have some very serious subsidies to our 40% of workers that are without a job. And that is something that needs to be addressed immediately. And if we don't, there's that pressure to open up again at whatever cost. You know, we had a show about what happened in Korea, which I think is very interesting. They have been very successful. They've been successful on the way in and on the way out. They've been successful for everybody. If you have any kind of symptoms, you get it free. If you don't have symptoms, but you have anxiety, you pay $125 for it. And that's market. That's what these other testing companies that are coming up in the US are saying they will charge. I don't know if they're actually doing it. Aside from that, people in Korea, as in Hawaii, are very, it's an Asian thing. It's very respectful. If the government says stay home, they stay home. If the government says maintain distance, they stay, they stay distant. And that's still happening. The same time in Korea, when they're going back in a rational way, they're going back step by step. And if a given step looks like it's opening things too much, they come back on that step. You have to unpack it. You have to break it down. You can't just say like Trump, you know, go for it, boys. We're back. We're back. Really, the question is, is this going to, like the Israeli researcher, is this going to work out by itself, no matter what we do? Or is what we do, does it count? I think it counts. And I think what happened in Korea counts. And I think Hawaii is at great risk for the tourists because we don't have the steps that Korea has taken. We don't have that level of testing. And in tracking, I forgot to mention, they track everything. We don't have that. We make little sound, little pittipat sounds about doing some of this, but we're not doing anything close to what Korea has done. I don't know. You know, Stephanie, what concerns me is that Trump may capitalize on a Peter out process. You may say, I knew it all the time. I knew this was going to Peter out. You guys didn't trust me and look how the economy is returning so quickly. You have to elect me again. I'm very concerned about that. Do you think that people, A, do you think the economy will come roaring back once we make this kind of collective, maybe imperfect decision that it's safe? And B, if it comes roaring back, is he a shoe in for president? I don't think anything's going to Peter out. The only one that's anywhere near close to Petering out is the sweating disease that killed everybody during Henry VIII, which we're living here now. So maybe it will Peter out. But no, in general, these things aren't going away. They may hide. They're devious little suckers, so they hide, but they're not going away. So, I mean, you're talking timing. So will it look like it's going away? And if everybody's so unscientific that they might be doomed, but that sucker is not going away, it will come back. Now we only have in Hawaii or is it 46? We have very few people that are currently in under COVID surveillance that are either home isolated or I don't even think it's possible. Well, I don't think we're doing tracking, you know, maybe we're making little sounds about tracking, but I'm not sure we're doing tracking. Tracking is the most important thing. And what I heard, and we're going to do a show on this, is that the collaboration between Google and Apple, which was supposed to use smartphones to track automatically people has failed. The reason is that they the government wasn't going to share anything with them. And in Korea, they have that in Korea, they have access to smartphone records, the calls you make the GPS, they have access to your credit card information, and everybody buys into that because they know that that really helps in the track tracking can be automated. Unfortunately, it's not being automated. But let's, let's, let's talk about medicines. Let's talk about hydro. What is it called? Hydro. Hydroxychloroquine. He's back. Just like the economy is back. He's back. I never saw a man who makes mistakes and then doubles down on them. No matter how wrong he was, he's back. And now that you know that the shelves are empty from hydrochlorine, hydro, hydroxychloroquine. So what is happening there? Is that really? I mean, the science guys say it doesn't work and it's dangerous. And Trump says it's safe and I'm taking it. I'm taking it. You guys should follow me. I call them Dr. Trump. The question is, so where does that fit? How does that affect people? How does that affect the country? How does it affect their perception of the progress we're making? If you can say progress in medicines to deal with this thoughts? I just want to say it's a confusion again. He's just banking on this confusion, multi-destructive, crazy all over the place. I just wanted to mention if we hadn't seen it, if you haven't seen it, is the what happened yesterday or today that there is an attention to the numbers of the departed and that people are dragging around these body bags and putting them at home. It's like a protest. He's glossing over what needs to be attended to are the body bags that are. He's changing the subject. That's what he's doing. And I agree with you. And the hydroxychloroquine is a changing of the subject. In reality, though, I'll give you an example and see whether this is a real trend. I think I told you before that we have a correspondent in Japan who told us, and he's a university teacher, also teaches in Schuyler School here, told us that Fujifilm, and I saw this in the paper afterward, Fujifilm has a subsidiary that's making a therapeutic drug called, I want to say, Veblan or something like that. And this drug was supposed to be Japan's big bet on a therapeutic. Well, it failed. They did preliminary tests and found that it didn't work. It was not efficacious. So there's one off the table. And then you hear all these stories all over the world, right, about everybody's racing for the for the gold ring. They want to develop a therapeutic or a test, a fast test. You know, Korea's got the testing down to five minutes. I'm not sure if we can do better than that. You go to get tested in Korea on a, you know, a street side tent kind of test. You know the answer immediately, immediately, you don't have to wait. You have to wait for a week or two or three like we do. So people are working on tests, they're working on therapeutics, and certainly they're working on vaccines. And you hear little pieces. What did you call it, Cynthia, shiny balls, shiny, shiny objects, shiny objects about these possibilities. But it's not clear at all that any of them are ripe yet. It's just a lot of candidates. And you don't know because the candidates are only possibilities. They're not, they're not proven up like that Japan drug. That was, that was a shiny ball and nothing came of it. So what, where are we, you guys, do you have some thoughts or something you read about where are we in terms of therapeutics and vaccines. We're making progress. Are we going to have a vaccine in a year or less? There are human trials right now, which is way ahead of the curve. Who's doing it? Some of the drug companies, one of the big ones, the names I don't know, but they've got humans taking this, the getting the treatment. And so they're, and they're also doing it to animals at the same time the animal mice are doing pretty good, but these people have volunteered to take it. So it's going to thrust us forward, but it's still months. One doctor I spoke to last week said he was not at all convinced that the vaccine was coming. That you know that was it was aspirational and there were viruses around where we tried real hard to develop vaccine couldn't over years. There's been, there will be mass progress made on this. I think the vaccine is probably the way to go. But in the meantime, you know, think of the analogy with with HIV. There were no, there were no resources given to that for a very long time because it was a marginalized population. But when it started breaking out, then you, you know, with, I think it was Magic Johnson and Ryan White, both, you know, a kid in the superstar got HIV. Then suddenly, whoa, this is in the mainstream population, we better do something now. COVID's been there from the start. And now that we're seeing other things like kids getting infected or, you know, hospital rates, we may we're going to see very fast progress on this. We're going to see drugs that are being tried all over the place. It may be that the hydroxychloroquine. I don't think it is the drug, but there's going to be others tested out that there's going to be new ones made that are anti retro viral. We will see things, but the interesting thing is that I read was that most states are releasing the health records of people that test positive to the police so that they have records of this. How is that going to encourage people to come forward and get tested? It's the same with states with HIV. Some states they it goes into a public record other states it's anonymous. But if you have some potentially deadly disease, and you're worried about losing your job or your insurance or your house, you're absolutely right with that. You want to be released to the police department or do you want not I mean that these are some basic questions we need to answer before we start sharing medical information like this. These tests are not guaranteed either. I read one of these tests that they were giving 50% of the time it is not showing up is right even in the White House the one where everybody got sick they were giving them a test. It wasn't effective so we have to test people with three different tests six different times maybe. You have this paranoia. I tell you guys a short story. I had a medical appointment unrelated to any of this yesterday. And I go to the doctor and I coughed. Now mind you in order to get into the building they took my temperature. But now I go to the doctor and I caught his staff. His staff said, Oh, you have to go now. I said cost. I just coughed. I don't have a cough. I just coughed. You have to go. You have to get to leave the building. We'll have to deal with this much later. And I said, Whoa, we're talking about institutionalized paranoia. One cough and I'm out. I was not happy about that, by the way, and I'm not happy with the way the doctor handled it. You know, PS, you have you have a couple of factors working. You have these aspirational researchers who think they want to save the world and make Huckabucks doing it. And then, and they may or may not be able to do it. And then you have people who really want to hope. They want to hope they carry hope. And they carry noise. So we're not talking about a completely rational, you know, environment here for the development of these drugs. I'm not sure what's going to happen to the vaccine, but you talk about HIV. There's still no vaccine for HIV. There are therapeutics for HIV, very effective. Some of which have been the subject of research right here, right here in the Cancer Research Center at the Medical School. Very impressive work. But how many years has it been since HIV came on the horizon? 20 years more? 40. Maybe they say back in the 70s. Yeah, but there's no, there's no vaccine for it. There's no vaccine for H1N1 either. And they tried really hard. It was a very scary thing. Luckily, though, they got a vaccine of some kind for Ebola. I think it's a vaccine rather than a therapeutic. Anyway, it's hit or miss. And there's no guarantee. Cynthia, I know you want to say something. I want to say you're distracted by the polio model, but you know, Cynthia. What, what did you say, Cynthia? I was going to say that I think that's something that's really important is, depending on who does come up with the vaccine, that they make it available to everybody. I think it's going to end up stuck in some who has the most money and can pay the most for it so that this upper, you know, 1% gets the vaccine and the people that are poor and can't afford it get left out. Big issue, Cynthia. And there's been a lot of stuff in the paper about that. And you saw where the Chinese said, if we discover this vaccine, we're releasing it to everybody because this is a human problem. So yeah, we won't, it won't be that, but it'll be, is it going to be closer to a flu vaccine or polio vaccine? Will we have 100% prevention or will it be 60, 50% depending on the strain you got? You remember how Trump tried to buy the German company who was working on one candidate about a month ago and offered them billions of dollars to draw away their, their, their talent there. And the German Angela Merkel said, no, no, no, no, no, he can't do that. But let me say that going back to your original point, Cynthia, if he gets his hands on a vaccine, this is, this is going to be a money making thing for him. And it's not going to be like what the Chinese say they will do. Anyway, I'm, I'm so sorry, Stephanie, I cut you off, but what, what were you going to say? Hey, this is vibrant conversation. Yeah, I know I was just saying we're a little bit, we haven't, we have all have a model in our heads, most of us that are mature enough, but the polio thing happened, but the polio vaccine also was the result of 50 years of work that that didn't happen fast. So the point is, why is everybody so surprised that this is complicated, and it's hard. And NIH is a huge place, as well as all the other institutions of that sort. There's no respect for the fact that this stuff is big deal. You got to, you got to go look at the people Fauci's discounted. All these people have been studying this stuff their entire lives with advanced degrees that none of us would be eligible to go after much less most of them. You raised an interesting point and it's the last point of our discussion I would like, you know, your thoughts on everybody. If you look at the American National Health Establishment, including of course, you know, infectious diseases, you see under Trump, we have lost a lot of talent. You've been moving them around firing them, you know, making them irrelevant, not funding them. There's many, many, many things. It's not the agenda he puts out at the press conferences, but it is happening that he's undermining our national health establishment. You know, what can we do about that? What can the next president do about that, assuming that the Trump, you know, is thrown out of office. I think this is going to be, I think we agree this is going to be an ongoing thing for a while, and it's going to need federal government effort and funding. We have hampered, he has hampered us in so many ways, including, you know, undermining science undermining medical research, coming up with these crazy ideas. We do when we need to rely on federal government for this, but the federal government has been neutralized. Winston. Federal governments being neutralized we got to get used to a new federalism. Maybe we open it up, tourism to New Zealand and Australia, and maybe South Korea after they're able to squash all the cases because they're effectively all islands and they can get it to zero. And you got to think about this too, Jay. What if we do have zero cases here? We're kind of like the Hawaiians before Western contact because they had no immunity to disease. So you'll have these islands here with no immunity. So what happens when things are opened up or something happens? The population could be devastated as opposed to maybe Ohio where they're going to get it dribs and drabs and it'll be slower. I don't know these serious questions that we have to have serious thought on, but in the meantime, we need a coherent state response and regional response as best as we can get. Yeah, and that goes back to the press. It really bothers me at the press reports this like very matter of fact, and they never expressed the outrage that they should be expressing, because these are outrageous things. You know, I remember the time when he would lie and the New York Times would say, the president falsely claimed they don't do that anymore. And they don't express the outrage that people should have. And they say, well, you know, we're giving you balanced reporting. Well, it's not balanced if they don't tell the other side. The other side has never spoken in these press conferences, you know, you see the way he beats up the reporters, it's awful. Okay, Cynthia, what do you think about, you know, the need to get the federal government activated on this, and to keep it activated, and to resurrect the CDC, because it's been damaged, not only de facto, but in reputation. And NIH has been damaged and bring back the talent. How can we do that? I'm not sure how we can do it. I know that we do have some people from the CDC that are starting to speak out and say that they were muzzled from a very early date in this whole situation. They were not allowed to put out warnings and to speak truth. So I think that the people are still there. They've just been muzzled. So we need to somehow get them back into the fold and give them a voice. All of them, Dr. Redletter, Dr. Fowler, all of the people that want to speak truth that are allowed to speak truth. And I think we can open those communication lines again. We'll be a lot better often. We'll be a lot closer to getting back to normal, where we challenge science instead of the politics. Yeah, it's reorganizing the climate of these agencies, listening to them. Okay, we're almost out of time, Stephanie. And that's why I want to offer you the opportunity to summarize everything we've talked about, and give us some guidance and direction for how to see things over the next week. Well, I'm very impressed that everybody is analyzing and is very deep into how these things are not working and also knows how they can work. And I guess we need to just continue forward to be good citizens and know how to make it work and do the best we can to get behind that. But frankly, not to be the grim reaper, but if we are going to all go forward, I know he's a good guy and I get along with him. And so we'll make him the Surgeon General for the NIH. Okay, fine. That's good. And that seems to be what we're on here. It's anti-intellectual. It's like the French Revolution. It's like Mao, Mao in China. Nobody needs to know anything special. And that's going to end up not with the U.S. just being a third world country. We're going to be dead. And we're going to be dead by the 100,000s. And I think that's why we need to look at that demonstration across the nation today at those body bags. That's more people that have died in any worse 100,000 in two months. Are you kidding me? Maybe the battle at the bulge? I don't know. I mean, what's comparable? Why aren't we going on and on about this? Because we are facing the existence issues. And when are we going to get strong enough to be able to stand up and say stop? No. I love when you guys get outraged. It's a time for outrage. It's wonderful to have these discussions unleashing a little outrageous. Good for you. It's healthy. Because I thank you for loving me. Good for your state of mind cooped up like this. Okay, Cynthia, thank you very much. You have a great way of looking at things. Winston, you're so knowledgeable. Stephanie, I love your contributions. Thanks so much, everybody. We'll see you next week, right? Say yes. Yes. All right, now go wash your hands.