 Hours right now. I will call the major order it is 7 o'clock by my watch and the First item of course are the minutes. We have the minutes of September 3 2019. Is there a motion? Move we accept them subject of modification Is there a second second? page one page two One thing on page two under number six noise control ordinance amendment the Third paragraph the one sentence. I wonder if it should Reflect that we also If in fact we did that yes, we should It was a comment Page three There are no further corrections all those in favor of approving the minutes of september 3 2019 say I I may oppose and one abstention enjoy Next on the agenda as the usual public comment Part of the agenda. So if there's anyone in the audience who has any Comments on anything that's either on the agenda or not on the agenda. This is your opportunity to do so And seeing no hands raised that will move on then to the justice commission Interviews and tonight we have eight people to interview And what I'd like to do is to invite the the three youth Or the students to come forward and sit at the table with the the microphone And then after we interview Those three will do the other five. So if you would please come to the the table So welcome to this elect board meeting and What I'd ask you folks to do is please just introduce yourselves. I'm terrible with names If you do that, please and then give us a little idea of Why what prompted you to Apply for the position on the board and then to tell us why You want to be on the board. So if you'd like to start Because I was a victim of a crime and I went through the cjc And I found it to be extremely healing and I felt that the justice I got from the cjc Was more powerful than the justice I would have gotten the courtroom and I also Have found that I want to pursue a career in law and I have Taken steps such as going to a camp at Yale law school this summer And I find that justice is extremely important to victims And it gives them a sense of closure that you wouldn't be able to find I'm jackson nimi From shampoam valley union high school. Um, I want to join the justice board because I'm very passionate and interested in criminal justice and I think similar to Avery ava Sorry, uh, I'm also very interested in possibly pursuing a career in law or criminal justice and I think that This type of justice is really important, especially for Healing the community So I really want to be a part of that My name is Adele Jennings. I also go to cvu And I've always been interested in forensic science. And so I've gotten to see More of a factual and criminal side to the biology of crimes And so I really want to be able to see more of an experience where I can Interact with the two people involved with the crime or the multiple people involved with the crime And I think it'd be really eye-opening to see More of a process where you get to talk with the people who are involved and see not just the person who committed the crime side But also the victim Thank you. Um, so now comes the inquisition from the So I'm curious actually Jackson. What was your internship with Murdoch and Hughes? Uh, I worked with Frank twang as my grad challenge. So I basically shattered him There were a bunch of uh, followed him throughout his day went to the court with him read briefs stuff like that Uh, and I used the cvu grad challenge as my way to do that Obviously it didn't characterize you to make you run the other way. No that I did. Thank you There are questions from the board What year are each of you? Could you tell me? I'm a senior. I'm a senior also But are all three of you thinking about law school or you're not but you are You are definitely a possibility I survived law school Well, I think it's it's wonderful that you're, um, interested in this stuff I really do And I hope I hope you do continue on With with this endeavor and don't don't get jaded It's easy to get a little cynical as you get further in but this board I don't think has a lot of that trying to game the system. So anyway, but thank you for your interest You're all very well spoken. Thank you so much Other questions No, I'm just impressed that you know, we have youth coming forward that is Interested in such positions. I think you both are all three of you are well spoken You know, I I know we might have some People on the board that have already Been through law school. I have not I'm an educator But I certainly can see the passion That you folks bring this evening And I just thank you for stepping forward and taking taking this on or hoping to get on The forensic stuff have you had a chance to see where they do autopsies? No, I haven't I toured the forensic building in Waterbury, though Yeah So my question I'm the one who's going to ask are you sure that you're ready for this? It's I think it's both going to be probably a rewarding experience But it's also going to be a pretty heavy experience and I just want to make sure that all three of you are I kind of know what you're getting into and are are ready for it So I'm seeing three people nod their head I think I'm seeing three people nod their head. So I'll take that as a yes So as the the board knows all the candidates both the youth and the adults have been interviewed by the police department and by the director of our community justice center as well and they come recommended from both of those groups, so There's no more questions for our youth. Well, excuse you and You can go back to your seats if you like and the There's a proposal that Rick and I have floated to The board tonight to hold off on voting until the end of the session. There was some discussion Last week by at least one of the candidates Who found it unusual to discuss Uh them while they were still here all the meeting is wide open and people can be here As long as they wish to If you wish to make motions, there's a new a new suggestion Coming to you from eric that came in the packet on your table tonight for the a motion to approve So it's up to you as to what you want to do at this moment I As I'm going to move to a point Adele Jennings Jackson any and The community justice board youth panel for an unexpired one-year term through june 30th 2020 This is your second second special emotion Hearing none all those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye any opposed Congratulations you three and Welcome to the community justice center board So now I'd call the other five candidates for the position to come and drag some more chairs up if you would come to the uh the table But once again, um, if you would introduce yourselves to um for It was a little bit about uh information in your background on the uh the board So if I'd start with you My name is Alex Tucci. I work full time for the Vermont International Guard I went to the school of the University of Missouri to study political science and anthropology moved recently to Vermont and Really have a passion for serving the community I work in and live in That's why I want to join I'm Bob Stafford. I'm a Richmond resident and my 45 years in law enforcement have Basically exhibited that alternative ways to justice Really work. I've been a part of the diversion program in Franklin County I'm one of the original Corporators for the Grand Isle Franklin United Way So I've been involved in different initiatives to give back to the community I think I've been doing that since I can remember I've been a part of the form of years for the jinn and unit for special investigation And I think this particular position is unique because we can help um I think rehabilitate people salvage people as I like to say Put them on the right track I'm a firm believer that people deserve second chances as well. So I was pretty enamored with christa lee when I first met her. She's a ball of energy. She really cares There is no doubt that she cares. So I said why not help if I can help You have a rather famous name to live to here in Vermont with former governor us senator Well, hopefully I'm famous in my own right Hi, I'm Ashley Sutton. I work at Wilson central school. I'm a special educator and teacher there in the alternative program I've had the good fortune of watching two students work through some stuff with christa lee She's also come into our classroom and help with some restorative circles and such And I'm a firm believer in the work that she's doing and like you said rehabilitating people and just supporting Our community and that and that's faucet and I come from a huge family of 12 kids eight of whom were adopted and super Super diverse family and I had a young brother who went through An incident back home when we were kids Made a poor choice and the way that was handled wasn't really fair So there's a passion that kind of stemmed from that to make sure that our community is supporting students that make You know mistakes and help them learn from their mistakes Hi, my name is david newton I work at an alternative placement school here in molestine and I was introduced to restorative justice through christley as well I've had the chance to work with her for about a year now To repair harm that's been done at the school by some students And it's been a chance for them to engage in Repair of measures instead of facing the criminal justice system. And that's why I want to be a part of the board I'm melissa achy. I I'm a special educator at allenbrook school in williston And I feel like there's been lots of different hats that I've worn that have brought me to this place of wanting to be on this board but I Was a foster parent for three years I have a child who has Gone through this process and that was really what brought me here was just How valuable that process was to her and how meaningful it was so That's that's really what and then my work as a special educator with young kids Which you don't often see this process at that age, but I I definitely see a place for it at the at the younger level too Thank you very much Questioners from the board David is two roads the one that's located in the kid in new house building Yes, okay, you're literally on the other side of the firewall for me I'm in that building. I just because I saw it and I wondered what it was. It's a yeah, we're on the inside of the door It's nice to meet you Thank you all for your interest My question is essentially the same. I asked the kids is I just want to make sure you're all ready Um, it is a potentially, you know a pretty big commitment Um, I'm sure it'll be rewarding, but I also want to be sure you're ready So again, I'm seeing Notting heads, so I assume the answer there is yes. Yes Further questions Comment I I do criminal criminal defense law and I have to say the the panel that you're about to be appointed on is really wonderful It's really evolved when it first started 15 or 20 years ago not in williston, but statewide It was it was a great idea that had not Evolved yet. Um, and so the it's it's a wonderful thing that you're doing and thank you very much for your energy Further questions or comments, I just have a comment as well I just hear words like repair passion rehabilitate salvage second chances I think I'm an educator as well and I think Lots of folks do make a poor choice But how that choice is handled after the fact Is really important and I can just feel the energy That you all feel passionate about this. So I just thank you for taking a step forward and It's certainly um, going to be work But it feels like each and every one of you would be a valuable resource for us So I just appreciate you coming out tonight and and giving up your time. Thanks Speaking with a different hat on I served in the legislature on the corrections and institutions committee and The committee is very much in favor of this program statewide and We know that there's some Problems perhaps developing as far as financing that and we'll be talking a little bit about that A little bit later in that this meeting as well But thank you for offering up your service to the town So it looks to me like we're ready to do other voting on the rest perhaps I would move to appoint melissa achy david newton and bob staffer to the community justice board for an Unexpired three-year term through june 30 of 2020 second This motion is made in second. It does there Any discussion on the motion If not, all those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. We opposed We have more positions to fill though. Yes I'd move to appoint ashley Sutton and alexander tucci to the community justice board for an unexpired three-year term through june 30 2021 Is there a second there is a second? Is there a discussion on the motion? Yes? I just wanted to double check this because you've got Never mind. I withdraw my my comment. I apologize If you think we have people leaving the middle that's what it was it was just to I spoke too quickly All those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. We opposed So congratulations. Thanks very much. Congratulations We'll move on then to The justice commission report and crystal lee McQueenie is is here the director of our community justice center and Crystal lee if you would talk to the uh the table Good evening So thank you everyone for taking the time this evening to bring on our our new members and to Take the time out of your schedules to to go over the The information that I had sent out previous My hope this evening is to just share kind of the status of the CJC where things are at how our population of clients is continually growing And to just kind of talk and share a little bit about What's coming down the pipeline that's been shared just to keep everyone in the loop And to just engage in that conversation. So thank you So I did prepare in your documents Just some graph information about how our center has grown And I really cannot express enough how Fantastic our board of volunteers Are and the level of support that we have received from The police department from rick from the town from all of you it really Speaks volumes to the importance of the work that we're doing and the level of support that we receive So wanting to just kind of look and share that we in williston have the highest volume of cases in the state of vermont with CJC's and we are minimally funded compared to some of the other sites in the state and have The highest number of volunteers and the highest number of volunteers on a wait list Eric and I went over it this morning And we have 42 people on the wait list who want to join The justice board, which I think is just amazing and I think all but three are williston residents So that is extremely impressive and wanting to highlight when we first started out As a justice center started out. I believe with a thousand dollar grant and just doing basic retail theft and as of yesterday We did an account and we as I said have the highest volume of cases and since july We had put down 41 cases that are new, but we received 21 new cases from the protesting That happened down in williston and potentially 54 more On top of our regular caseload that comes in and so trying to to manage The the level of cases that are coming in the the various kind of types of cases that are coming in They're no longer just retail theft We have a lot of careless and negligent operation traffic violations theft retail theft much of which is really fueled by The the opiate epidemic and people's addiction poverty and a big Amount of the cases that we see with youth have to do with sexting and revenge porn and The creation and possession and dissemination of child pornography and so wanting to Really educate our community about that really help kids to understand the dangers And the the long short term and long term consequences that that carries for them And so just wanting to to share that Even with the increase of Hours for our two new employees It is still very difficult to manage all of the the cases that are coming in within the time frame that we would like to So generally we like to get people in within the first couple weeks of receiving their case to do their intake and get them on the schedule within 30 days Most cases we try to turn around within 30 to 60 days Some of those cases are taking a little bit longer due to victim participation what victims needs are Trying to get people into to care and treatment before having them come In front of victims so it takes just a little bit more time But as you heard from some of the people in the room that really is the focus of our work So just wanting to to share, you know the work that we're doing the impact that it has and just kind of Also share that we were told by the department of corrections That there is potential budget cuts coming down the pipeline as we all can imagine Last year and there was a 3 cut that came across human services and The department of corrections was hit with that and then cjcs were Were impacted by that that projection is Looking to be a little worse next year and within five years It's not looking so so promising So surely and I sat down and really just kind of looked at the figures of what it costs to operate the center Currently what it would look like in terms of financial need if we didn't have Doc support and also what it would look like with Some doc support but adding another person on full time and so I presented that all to you this evening Um I'm just wanting everyone to just be on the lookout. I know rick has been really Supported and engaging in conversations and there is a statewide meeting that's happening on october 30th that i'm hopeful that rick and terry as well as the chief and surely will attend cjcs across the state sarah george tj donovan will be there and really looking at How funding is being allocated and how towns Are supporting or not supporting some of our services Extend beyond will astin but will astin is the only Community that provides any sort of financial support to the program That meeting on october 30th is the one that we had set up or started It's our lunch meeting that exactly it's the follow-up to that meeting Yeah, and they just confirmed that date for me, so i'm sure you'll be hearing from them soon So yeah, so I just wanted to Be transparent with with all of you about the fears that that we carry Because as you can see the work is is really well respected in our communities It's it's having profound impact on responsible parties and on victims And the chief wasn't able to be here tonight But he also wanted me to share that it's really important to him that Our program stays local in will astin and there is some talk in chitlin county about reorganizing Just the way that cjcs are operating there are five cjcs in chitlin county With just a little under a million dollars being spent throughout those five cjcs And our site receives a hundred thousand of that Kind of where things are at What percentage of people who appear before the cjcs are from will astin So it's hard it's hard to say we we haven't really collected that we just collect where the crime Is is occurring So most of the crimes that we have are occurring in will astin very few of them occurring in richman or heinsberg or huntington Those towns are covered by our cjc though. They are covered by our cjc And just take the opportunity to explain the area. I'm sure I was told this at one time I apologize for forgetting but what the area is for the cjc Sure, so the will astin cjc covers will astin richman heinsberg huntington Part of shellburn and charlotte if it's connected to cdu and then we also have st. George and bolton So that's our our surface area most of Most of the crime that we deal with happens in will astin So it's other towns more peaceable than ours. I guess well, I'm not sure I would say that They don't they don't have the retail Right, I think that you know if we look at at what happens in will astin Right, there is the the big contribution of crime that happens within the box stores And certainly, you know, the other surrounding areas don't have The the landscape and the makeup of what will astin has And I just feel like you know will astin police officers are really invested in this process and participate with us The chief is really supportive Chief buckin richman was very supportive when he was there We now have a new chief Heinsberg kind of the same thing So I think there's been a little bit of shift But it most of our cases do come by direct referral by our our will astin officers And in addition just again to be fair and transparent there is Deep conversation happening around youths and having most of the youth cases actually not go through prosecution but be sent to cjc And then if cjc doesn't work having the the case sent to diversion So I have a feeling that our case will continually increase especially with with youth cases and the the new age of legislation for for youth Obviously if you don't mind that's That's something I don't understand and what I mean by I don't understand is I'm hearing that from the state side Where you were the funding I guess originates or I don't know if that's the best way to put it They they're looking at cutting But on the other hand what I'm hearing is is the value and I assume the cost effectiveness of This program and so I'm trying to figure out why would you cut a program that's successful and so I'm trying to Yeah, your perspective is on that so I I mean, it's it's hard to say because there's a lot of information that we're not given I believe that you know, there just are the the regular cuts that are coming within the human services and The department of corrections having to reallocate funds in in certain ways And I believe that there's there, you know when when CJC started out I don't think that it was with the scope of the kinds of cases in the in the vast amount of cases that That we are seeing and so I think that that has played a major role And having to to look at that and how do we support these these programs that are growing exponentially? And without you know, wide range of financial support. I think we've been really Lucky and fortunate and Williston to have the kind of supports that we've received from the town and from from DOC but again looking at that and if you look at The figures that Shirley and I sat down and put together the there is a substantial unmet need if we do lose Funding or if we lose have a decrease in funding in order to keep the program going at the rate that it's going now I can expand on that a tiny bit more The the funding that we do receive is from the department of corrections 100% of that and we support it through in kind building the the lights power supervision The number of cases coming directly through the department of corrections is Been decreasing in as well Cases are coming from other sources now Oh, okay. Yes. All right. That's what started this conversation that led to this meeting on October 30th Which was gee there's other groups benefiting Yet, they're not supporting and so in order for this whole program to be sustainable Each group the benefit should be contributing a little bit not a lot necessary a little bit And including the town of Williston including the other communities that we serve and so we're we're hoping that we can work towards that model There's certainly no guarantee because Especially some of their other state agencies involved and and for them to come up with money They're going to face the same issues that the department of corrections is facing In the town contribution in the past has been in kind not a a dollar amount Okay, with the exception of this this fiscal year may be a little bit different. We're contributing towards some of the part-time help Okay, and that's the Was it 15? 15,000. Yes Reference. Okay. It is in the budget. But yeah, okay, and then my last question. Hopefully is I'm looking on the graph on page two And I know there's a really good reason why but it does sort of strike out how the total number of cases in 2017-18 and 19 is you know significantly higher than the number of completed cases But it's a really good explanation. So there's like there's a couple explanations. So one is That when we start with with a case Oftentimes we realize that people need to go to treatment or people need to engage in counseling before We can have them come before the panel There's conversations about are people really in the right frame of mind to be able to engage in the restorative work If they're coming in under the influence or with an act of addiction So we might start a case and then put a case on hold while they go through iop or they go through treatment and bring them back Also the nature of the kinds of cases that we receive As I said, we would want all of our cases to come in and out in 30 days But it doesn't happen that way victims needs are are you know at the forefront of what we do and so oftentimes We'll start and victims will want to participate, but we'll need to take a break So that that contributes Pretty heavily and then the other piece of a lot of these cases have to do with folks picking up additional charges And so if they pick up additional charges We we count them, but it's still an open case with us until that case has fully Close to its completion I'm sorry. I lied. I did have one more question on when you're presenting the various scenarios Um In the notes you say for instance on the first scenario one full-time employee with no doc support director at 80 hours I assume that's 80 hours every two weeks every two weeks. Yeah Just want to be sure I don't want to work 80 hours a week Hi, I also have a question on the graph itself And I think I know but I just want to be clear. So I'm looking at the 2020 and in 41 cases in 41 completed Is that due to the time of year that we're in and what we're we're coming into for like holiday season So so since july we've received 41 new cases and we've successfully closed out 41 of those cases But as I said, we received the additional 21 cases for the protesters, which we didn't include in here because we just received them So we currently have those those cases that are are open and coming through Um So you mentioned intensive outpatient stuff. Is that I mean To what degree does the Does the program actually kind of is it morphing into more like a supervisory probation thing if you're doing stuff like that? No, so so to to address that what we so if we find that someone's coming in And they need counseling we we can't mandate anything right? It's voluntary And so if someone is is really hoping to make that change in their life and they want to go through iop We we help to get them in and then it's up to iop to do their work And then when they complete that they come back to us some of those cases However, as we receive from probation and parole Right, they come with maybe an order of the court to complete restorative work or from their probation officer And then we they have a term that they have to complete that by and so part of that might be Engage an end care or engage an Safe driver and so we have them complete those phases before we have them actually come through and so it just it varies Depending on the kind of case the timeline and how many open cases we have And then just to be really transparent part of The challenge that we've faced and it's rolling out is that the doc has changed the way that they are structuring Volunteer training and services and so right now we used to be able to train our own volunteers And doc has made it so that it's a statewide kind of comprehensive approach Everyone receives the same training and they're only offering it very selected times of the year So when we have someone leave for illness or we have turnover, we're not able to slide new people right in Due to the way that doc has has kind of revamped And so we have you know the people that are joining tonight that have been able to fill some of those vacant slots And now the next round won't be able to happen until december And so we've had some vacancies around Scheduling and needing to make sure that we have the right amount of volunteers so that it's it's fair and equal Further questions or comments How much of the a financial situation i What you might expect in terms of grants from doc Will we know by the budget season? So we as i said we're meeting on the 30th and we should know i'm hoping by January kind of the rough estimate of what they're thinking the decrease might be or If they're choosing to close down some sites and maybe reallocating So i'm not that's why i just wanted to keep everyone kind of just starting that conversation and in holding that information So as information does you know get sure that we can we can update everyone Further questions or comments. Thank you so much So moving on to the parking report and melinda scott is here to Talk about the amount that she has written for us so I wanted to update you on the situation out at mud pond mud pond road There is a neighboring resident to the mud ponds conservation area country park who continues to Complain about the disturbance of people parked along the road And wants the town to do something about it Just i'll briefly go over the background for those that are not familiar Um, the town acquired the mud pond conservation area and country park in the early 90s In the late 90s, I believe it was when the the current parking lot was established the one that's near south road Um, that parking lot serves both the country park and the conservation area In the early 2000s, um fellowship of the wheel local mountain biking advocacy group Started developing trails on the mud pond within mud pond country park And these trails were gradually expanded Into a neighboring property owned by Mr. Herskowitz So as the trail system expanded it also became increasingly popular among mountain bikers And then this Eventually led to complaints about the parking situation So in 2014 in response to the concerns that were raised by The landowner nearby mark simon The town took some steps to alleviate the parking congestion on mud pond road At that time A portion of mud pond road was Unofficially designated as overflow parking and that Was about 500 feet from the existing parking lot 500 feet down the road And away from mr. Simons house That was you know Supposed to be done on an interim basis until a more permanent solution could be found Around that time the town also began investigating the feasibility of developing an additional parking lot along south road We even received a grant From the recreational trails program to do that um in 2015 The town hired an engineering firm to investigate the feasibility of developing a parking lot and Discovered that there were wetlands Along in the location that they wanted that that was planned for the parking lot and there wasn't There wasn't really a feasible alternative So because of this Well, and also at that time a public hearing was held in front of the drb as to preliminarily review the concept of a parking lot in that area and A lot of neighbors came out Against a parking lot. So there there didn't except for mr. Simon. There wasn't a lot of support for um building an additional parking lot in that area so because of this The conservation commission decided to defer the project indefinitely um in the meantime The town acquired the abutting hirskovitz property as an addition to mud pond country park using environmental reserve funds and Vermont housing conservation Grant And then The complaints continued and in 2016 To to try and leave the situation alleviate the situation the select board amended the Town of wilson motor vehicle and traffic ordinance to officially designate where parking Could You know where there could be parking on mud pond road a sort of a designated parking area the same area That was unofficially designated previously 500 feet from the existing parking lot There was a you know section of parking That was officially designated with signage And be you know outside of that zone people are not allowed to park So This the designation of official no parking zones um According to mr. Simon has not really worked out to alleviate the the situation to satisfy him So We have been trying to You know trying to to do official additional measures To try and alleviate the situation We've had ongoing communication with fellowship of the wheel About parking concerns. They're they're well aware of the issues And and I think they understand And are sensitive to those issues and they're they've been really Pretty good about conducting outreach to their members about you know trying to Limit their impacts around parking areas Not only here but at other areas Where there are popular mountain biking trails and with similar impacts um And they've also limited they've also shifted large group events to other areas as well To try to limit the impacts we've worked with the police to try to you know Have more active more frequent patrolling out there I've talked with chief foley and he stated that There have been bike patrols out there the Bike officers talked to mountain bikers has talked to local residents including mr. Simon And that there have only been since summer of 2017 There's only been two complaints to the police department the last one over a year ago in august 2018 We've also taken measures to try to better understand the usage out there Uh We've we had a chitin in regional planning commission Do a traffic study? They set up traffic counters in june for a week About 200 feet from the intersection of south road And just west of the parking lot So the average daily traffic volume according to their study was 27 Combined westbound and eastbound trips so about 14 cars And Peak volumes were in the middle appeared to be from that study in the middle of the day um And then the conservation intern conducted some a couple of trail user surveys one in july one in august trying to Uh gauge the intensity of use and counting the number of cars Parked in the parking lot as well as along the road and um, and even and also counting users who came there via on foot or on bikes Just to kind of get some indication Of usage um And And those counts were taken from five to seven p.m Which is also understood to be a peak time for usage there We also looked at uh You know, we did a little data mining on on a popular biking app called trail forks a lot of people use these apps to log the rides It doesn't provide you absolute numbers under any circumstance, but it just gives you an indication of trends So At this point we're we're looking for some direction from the select board about what ought to be You know, what further measures if any should be done And you know keeping I mean just keeping in mind that we have investigated pretty thoroughly the options for another parking area And haven't come up with anything that's feasible And you know, so so really the measures That are left are closing the park to mountain biking Which you know, as you can imagine would result in some fairly negative feedback from trail users And could you know could hurt the town's credibility with Other partner organizations But but yeah at this point we're we're just we're looking for some direction of What what you'd like us to do? I think I wanted to uh, mr. Simon, would you like to weigh in on this? Yeah, um, most of the what we're going to have to say is correct except I'll give you my version is I've lived there for 30 years for 25 years. It was no issue The issue came when the bike trails were made last six years and the It was never a problem there that was it was only for the walking trails and very few people used that And when I bought that property that was something I looked at Because if it was like it is today, I would have never have bought that property This has become a major park a lot This is like if you're if you if you're a neighbor through a big party And 30 people park in front of your house. Well, I have that seven days a week Every day from morning until night And it's it's horrible my whole existence is totally altered I can't be out of my porch without being totally annoyed. I hear beeping People with the the beepers to close the door to open their door to unlock their car I mean, it's like I hear voices Radios I hear people screaming back and forth. I mean, it's it's a nightmare for me I mean, I can't be on my property without being totally aggravated and annoyed that because I hear constant people And it just never ends. I mean, I am like I'm not going to really, you know complain, but this is this is a life altering situation for me and my wife I mean, I'm at the point now where I'm close to retirement the thought of being there all the time I mean when I'm there a little bit at night a little bit during the day I'm like my blood pressure's rising. I mean, I'm flipping out This is like it's like I'm living in Walmart or I'm living in in the city I mean, this is not living where I've lived in the last 25 years 30 years This has been a total change and I feel like the town sort of When it first happened, I was promised that this was a temporary thing and that they were looking into a parking lot And I said, okay fine If it's a temporary thing I can live with it for a little while Well temporary is now six years It has gotten so popular that You know, I'm telling you this car is there seven in the morning and there's cars there Into the night people get off the trail. They hang out they party they You know, not all the time, but right into the night. I mean right into dark eight nine o'clock at night I'm still hearing people. There's still lights going on. I'm still hearing noise And it just never ends, you know So I feel like I'm the sacrificial lamb here for The town to make a bike path and Well and and you guys telling everybody to go park on mud pond road. Well mud pond road is in front of my house So to me it's unlivable. I mean, I'm thinking I need to move. I mean, I mean that's I'm so annoyed and so upset about it that If nothing is done, I don't see it as an alternative but to move And I think that sucks. I think it's a horrible thing that you create a bike path with no parking And how where are my rights with no one ever approaching me? I mean if you make an apartment lot, you put out hearings you people have time to Say that what impact it would have on them. I had none of that It was basically the town just said to everybody go park on mud pond road for the bike trail And we don't need to make a Park a lot although when it first happened The town manager promised me there was going to be a parking lot His assistant promised me there was going to be a parking lot and for a good year and a half They were working on it and now that's all Under the you know water under the bridge And that thing has gotten you know, and it used to be that winter stopped the bikes Well winter didn't stop the bikes anymore. Now they got the big knobby tires and people are going year round I mean seven days a week Seven in the morning till nine at night Constant noise That I never had before never had I'm voicing that out. I I have no idea what to do. I mean to me. Yeah, I want to close I mean I got nothing. I mean I'm an outdoor enthusiast, but I didn't you know I didn't invite The whole world to be parking in front of my house every day I didn't and it it's not right. It's not right that I'm the I'm the sacrificial land. Yeah Thanks That's been the war of ideas I'm having trouble visualizing and I'm sorry, but is the the parking is going on Right in front of your house But the my time parking area that was for the walking trails for the last 30 years Which maybe a car or two or three might be there Every day now that parking lot is totally full Because of my complaining We made a 500 foot space that at least it's not directly in front of my house, but it's The the the main parking lot for the walking trails is right pretty much right next in front of my house so that thing that used to have wanted to cause now as That's totally filled every day and this is you know It's not like people park and then they come back 10 hours later This is like They're coming and going and coming and going people don't stay more than an hour or two on those trails And then the next person comes the next person leaves the next person comes the next person leaves. It doesn't stop But is there street parking right in front of your house? Excuse me. Are there is it street parking right in front of your house or is your house where the no parking area is? It's like if my house was like this The parking lot the original parking lot is right here and goes to south road and then there's a 500 foot Space where they're not supposed to park and then there's parking again That 500 foot space where they're not supposed to park in front of your house Excuse me. Is that 500 foot space where they are not supposed to park in front of your house? Yes Technically yes, two feet over is the parking lot. But yes, right in front of my house No, I just asked a question on the map. We have is the pin that show is labeled residents is that Mark's house And and just I want to make sure I understand You mentioned the 500 foot and people parking illegally, but there is a 500 foot legal Parking area on mud pond in addition to the six space parking area Well, and I I I do remember we did a study. I don't and I remember it didn't go anywhere That's not the best description. Sorry, but Can you And you mentioned earlier cost in wetlands could you Maybe a little bit more expand upon Um Because when I look at the mud pond country park area, it's quite a bit of area, right? So it would one might argue that there ought to be lots of options right parking There's a lot of wetlands over there and they're Initially we're looking at one spot that seemed to be you know, sort of outside of the known wetlands but as it turned out that also had wetlands in it and Um would have required Well, there was It could have been moved, but then um You would have had to build like a really expensive Boardwalk trail to to kind of get all around the wetlands and um, and then We investigated potential parking further down the road but that also, uh Has wetlands and would also I think we looked we looked at But potentially parking on some of the cyples Land, I mean we didn't pursue it very far because we wanted to investigate visibility And that would have involved You know besides another wetland delineation and kind of figuring all that out permission from vermont Uh Housing and conservation board permission from the cyples And it just you know We when we investigated it the wetlands Department was saying well, you really ought to check it out with vermont land trust first and the vermont land trust was saying Well, you really ought to check out the wetlands before we you know spend any time discussing this and Just you know plus it plus it's um Pretty far down mud pond road Now the other issue is that when we uh, had a pre-application hearing for the parking lot on south road a whole bunch of neighbors showed up and spoke out against it so It just see it seems like if you're going to build in a parking lot somewhere else You're likely going to shift the The neighbor you know the neighbor impacts to another location Excuse me, but you know no one no one wanted in front of their house and basically None of my name first of all that meeting the one meeting the one time in my life I took a vacation. I was not there and my wife and I wrote a letter whether it was Right at the meeting which it was supposed to I have no idea um But you know none of none of my neighbors have the cause in front of their house So why would they you know at this point? Why do they care? Why would they have to have a parking lot since they're all shipped over to me? I mean, and I don't even know if they were aware that this is such a burden on me. I mean, I've never complained to my neighbors I've only complained to you people um So mark, there's still two there's still two two more neighbors down on that road, correct You're way down correct. Well, we we used to own land over there as well back in the day So I understand like the wetland concerns Are there any complaints that have been From those folks at all from the from the traffic that's or park or the noise or i'm just curious if that's Just because of the locale of where mark mark is and where they're They don't really go down that As far down as that There's another issue. I believe um Melinda that has the conservation commission had a discussion about even the forgetting the wetlands issue that Have they had a discussion about the advisability of expanding parking which would then Maybe result in the overuse of these trails. Well, so Limiting the parking is is a management tool to Try and you know to manage use um, this is a small area and One of the conservation commission's concern is if you build a parking lot, it's just going to attract more people and Build it. They will come. I mean, yeah, so you got unlimited parking right there. That is the parking lot What is the parking lot? So yeah, i'm just so anyway, that's only gotten worse than worse So what you're saying mark is that people When the six lots fill up in the parking area and then the parking the 500 feet along mud pond They just start parking for lack of better words illegally in areas. They're not supposed to park, but not not that much One or two people that park in the wrong spot then you have 20 people parking there that day But most of the time if people do redesigns and park what they're supposed to then they're not in front of my house media But i'm still here and seeing and and i mean it's they're still going by my house They're still riding their cars by my house. They're cars are going by my house I hear whether they're there or they're here. I still hear all the noise You know, yes, I'd write right in front, but they're right here and they're right there and I hear I cannot not hear it. I mean when I'm in my house and I have the windows open I hear if I'm on my porch It's a I could I could partake in the conversations I mean you know All I can say I'm not one to really complain, but this this is I like my piece of quiet I like to have I like to be able to have my slice of pie Which I had for a long time And ever since the bike ramp has been built and no and no facility was built to go along with it Then I've been the suffering suffering. My wife is suffering You know, you're just a man. All's I can say is just imagine You name the throne a party In and and all these cars come in front of your house every day Sunday saturday holidays every day. There's no there's no break for me This is ongoing every day. There isn't one day. I don't get a store for this I think I know the answer, but I'm still going to ask the question it sounds like Your the primary impact On you on your quality of life is noise, but it also sounds like there's some visual impact also Yes, for sure both Is there both more than noise than the visual? Okay, is there this is just a general question that's out there Is there any Way to attenuate? I don't know if that's the right word Sound barriers anything along those lines that might be worth looking into Um, I mean There is a pretty wide buffer a forested buffer between the road and Mr. Simon's resident residents, so I don't really see how Like what additionally we could I do I don't know either. I I I do drive on highways every once in a while And I notice they use those walls for the development that's on immediately butting the highway, but So I I'm groping here a little bit, please. I mean, I've had the same thought. I mean, I thought should I throw trees up there? Should I put up the fence myself? I mean, I mean, I'm losing it. I mean, uh, this is I can't I can't express how upsetting this is on an everyday level. I really can't not hear not now I'm not sure we're going to get any further tonight as far as directions to To staff But it certainly needs to be followed up. I'm not sure who the appropriate group is to do that The one um, do you have a copy of that the parking study still? Um Yeah, I believe if I included in your packet. It's it's just a A pdf with uh Kind of looks like this. It's got a bunch of numbers on it. Okay. No, I meant the um, Oh the that looked at alternatives. Oh, um I do have that if you want I can provide a copy of their if you could I guess I go through a periodic cleaning out of my files and I'm guessing that's what happened here And so if I could take a look at that again, that would yeah, these are the type things I kind of interest me The lawyer's got to talk about things that interest them me things like, you know, would you put parking? Other thoughts about wouldn't even what we can do Was there information about how expensive it would be to expand the parking lot given that it's a wetland area And whether it was even possible it, uh, I believe It would have doubled the cost. Um, I think we had budgeted something like I'm gonna say Well, I shouldn't I shouldn't throw numbers out because I can't remember them but but it was a substantial increase in the cost Like a third more to double the cost I think it was about, uh I want to say 30,000 40,000 But mr. Simons if we expanded the parking lot and I don't know if that's even possible that Doesn't sound like that's something you'd want because it would The noise the noise would continue to be right across from your house if you expanded the lot. That's right there. Yeah Wouldn't wouldn't do it wouldn't do it for you No, it wouldn't solve anything I believe the way it is if you're going to do that The parking lot needs to be where people don't live. I mean basically I look at other sites that you have around bulletin and when you have a parking lot for a trail It's not next to somebody's house. It's not in front of someone's house You have it in areas that have buffer zones. Okay The other comments tonight we can We need to further investigate this You're looking for You're looking just some time to think about it and put it back on the agenda and you want staff to do some more work What we certainly would that look like? In my mind this staff needs to do more work on it, but is it Well to find out whether it's a solvable prowl or not and if it's solvable how much is it going to cost us to solve it and But we need to have We've gotten the information right. I think we're We're at loggerheads tonight as far as what we can do conceptual thing is I'm thinking is like if is it is it possible to move the parking lot I know everything is possible with enough money. So I mean is it possible within the parameters of what the town can do and you know like Heaven and earth to you know build a access road that goes deeper into the Into the park and then you know creates a parking lot there or something. I mean, I don't know. I'm just throwing ideas out But is there any outside the box? Solution that we might be able to come up with I think we're It's doing it. We've done as much tonight as we can on this so we'll need to Have a back on an agenda once we have some more ideas. Yeah, it's a tough Thank you So move on then to the bylaw amendment transportation impact these That the launcher is here as what you're planning what looks like As well so welcome and if you haven't signed in Please do so before you leave Matt great. Thank you um So what's before the select board tonight is their first consideration of amendments to chapter 45 of the williston unified development bylaw This is the chapter that establishes a transportation impact fee As well as the list of transportation projects in town that can be funded with revenue from the fee And the existing transportation impact fee is about 10 years old It's been time for some time for an update The fee is assessed Based on the number today of vehicle trips that are projected to be generated by new development in town so The fee is paid upon the time that a permit is applied for For a new building a new dwelling A new commercial use of some sort that's likely to increase Vehicle trips on the town's road system. The current fee is 700 dollars per vehicle trip end The new impact fee is based on a new study Performed by rsg resource systems group for the town And is based on a revised list of transportation projects that was developed between rsg the regional planning commission and the town planning commission So one of the major points of revision of this impact fee is to focus the project list Primarily on town projects or projects for which the town is primarily responsible So the old impact fee list included a very large Price ticket line item to rebuild exit 12 with a Very large Fee attached to that And this this fee among other things Removes that from the project list There are a few projects that the fee does identify partial funding for $100,000 each on mountain view road bike lanes and multi-use path from williston village to Taft corners Neither of those projects is going to cost so little as $100,000 But we had some communication with v-trans that those projects which would be fully funding funded as circumferential highways projects alternatives projects Might be moved up in the queue a little bit if the town did some Preliminary work on them. So the planning commission wanted to include those Should the town wish to spend money to get those projects off the ground so We have A list of projects We have a prediction by resource systems group that across the timeline of this fee Which runs through 2040 that if we were to build all of these projects Williston in 2040 would experience a similar level of road service or conversely a similar amount of congestion As it does today things wouldn't get a whole lot better, but they wouldn't get any worse and that would be Even though we would experience all of the new development in town that's likely to occur between now and 2040 So you have a list of projects You have a price tag You have a predicted amount of new development and new trips that will be generated by that development And in the end you divide the cost of all those projects Against the projected number of trips and you come up with a new per trip fee The recommended per trip fee at a maximum from resource systems group is $1943 per trip You'll notice i'm not saying vehicle trip now The new study looks at trips as being possibly in a vehicle But possibly on foot or by bicycle and that reflects Some of the things that are happening in town in terms of its compact development form And also that some of the projects would support those modes of travel So it would be by trip Um But certainly the major changes in this bylaw amendment are the increase of the fee and the changes to the project list I would add One other change which is simply that we've added some clarifying language related To when a developer builds or contributes to the construction of a major piece of infrastructure that's on this project list How they can be credited for their participation in that construction We wanted to make sure that when a project Builds a piece of infrastructure like that They continue to get credit against their fee as they as they have in the past and the best example in williston is finny crossing and the construction of zephyr road um essentially finny crossings construction of that road has erased Most any likelihood they'll ever need to pay an impact fee because of the cost of that facility And the number of trips it mitigates in williston system We wanted to expand that a little bit and make sure that if somebody was building the facility But maybe not developing everything along that facility right away They would still be able under some kind of either umbrella permit or umbrella development agreement Have credit for that and a really good example is Taft corners park and the potential construction of trader lane, which is an impact fee project So i'm going to stop there with one thing i'll offer up which is um, you know, you you all read the newspaper I'm sure and and saw that there's a proposal in williston to triple the transportation impact fee Which currently there is or close to it the number is not two thousand dollars. It's close um The commission wanted to provide a little more information providing some context for that fee So i have an informational piece my staff prepared for them that i'm happy to share with you And it's two things. It's a bar graph that shows total impact fee liability across the last 10 years Including the projected year under the new fee. This is for a single family home And then down below we've compared impact fee costs against estimated project costs for some of the bigger commercial developments in town to just show How that might change The takeaways from this When we stopped paying for the allenbrook school The total impact fee load for residential went way way down It's not coming back up anywhere near what it was In 2015 when we were still charging that fees the total impact fee load remains well below What the town was historically charging in the first part of the 2000s here The takeaway down here if you want to see these numbers and i can i can pass this around to you Small inexpensive buildings that produce lots of vehicle trips It's pay a lot of impact fees and they would pay a lot more impact fees if that fee were increased so A building like a fast food restaurant that doesn't take up a lot of land and is pretty inexpensive to build If it's not being built as part of a project that's on one of these impact fee project roads It's going to create a lot of trips and it's going to pay a lot of money And the example you'll see on here is is mose which was Projected to produce a hundred trips during the busiest hour of the afternoon during the week And therefore at the time paid 300 dollars a trip for those trips So you can imagine something like that paying Close to two thousand dollars a trip. It's quite a bit more So i'll stop there But i just wanted to call out that i have that available for the select board I didn't have it at the time that we put your packets together One question before I pass it on to the board You had a public hearing on this as well. What kind of feedback did you get at a public hearing? We did not have any public participation in that hearing I've taken one phone call since the newspaper article came out But I will say that the planning commission has been working on this for about a year on and off and has certainly wrestled with The project list and the figures in presenting this to you tonight So pass it on to the board for questions or comments Let me first start with the the easy question In your memo you make Sorry There's a comment in there that says fewer trips are predicted For willis and then would be the case if development was built in a more conventional suburban pattern and I actually It caused me to think and and I actually wonder if that's true I'm not challenging you but it's just true because I think if you have your more your dense mixed use type environment Isn't the concept of that to encourage Things like you know pedestrian use of the area i.e more more trips and to kind of use the example I was coming up within my head is Let's say I live close to hana ferds in this sort of mixed area Right now we go to hana ferds maybe once a week and we try to buy all our groceries for that week So that we aren't making more trips because of the distance But I lived within walking distance. I'd be like a dozen eggs. I'll go get them. Oh, I forgot the beer go back and get it You know, so it's I guess maybe I'm wondering if that really I'm sorry to put it this way, but you know it is is accurate. Okay So trips are generally going to be generated with someone comes or goes from a parcel or ownership So if you were to treat finny crossing as one thing which which this model would You might make a trip off property to go to work in the morning. You you might even drive your car to do that You know, we're not completely off of the single occupant vehicle here, but Some days during that peak hour, you might get home and you might need the eggs in the milk And you might walk to healthy living which will be On the site You might meet friends for dinner at the restaurant that will be in the end of that building You might Go to the atm at union bank Um You might be able to do some other things at some of the other commercial things that exist there Maybe your folks are in town. They're staying at the hilton. They get to come over and see you And so none of those things are trips Under under this model because they're all staying on the parcel Okay, so trips and maybe The way I looked at trips and the way trips are sort of described or Or characterized and it might be a difference. Okay, right So you might not think about a trip is happening at the threshold of the door But rather on on the parcel or within that, you know, like if if you thought of everything inside cottonwood crossing as being one entity The more conventional example is you're going to go to shop at rei and you might pop into marshals at the same time In some more suburban contexts and in the ones that the international traffic engineers based their trip generation Modeling on which is what this is starts with Marshals and rei are each on their own lot on their own driveway on their own parcel and and you really got to drive in between them That's The legacy of the trip trip generation modeling that's out there that we use so When rsg looked at williston and looked at the development pattern and the likely future development pattern They said well, we're going to start with that it model that pretty much assumes every single business and home and everything else is on its own parcel and we're going to assume Better than a 50 reduction in trips from that extremely suburban model that those numbers are based on So so the point being when we predict all of the trips that new development will generate in williston between now and 2040 We aren't predicting that we're going to grow in this really really sprawled out suburban pattern But rather that most of that growth will continue to be in the kind of compact mixed-use pattern that that we've got going now All right. Good. Thank you. The next thing you actually hit upon it was What do you Envision to be and I'm going to use the word the liability of this and what I mean by that is You gave an example where there are going to be certain types of commercial uses that are going to get hit pretty hard by it because relatively low cost To build the small lot to build the structure itself, but they generate a lot of trips So my question is is How will this impact The type of development that occurs in willis then that's allowed permit it meets our Zoning our ordinance, but how will what will be the impact of this? Do you see certain types of uses that may not Feel like they can afford To locate in willis then or do you think it's really not going to have much of an impact at all? Drive through fast food Will will remain I mean in addition to drive-through is not being allowed under willis then's current zoning ordinance This would this would really make it expensive to do something like that Uh, a new gas station would probably be pretty expensive under this You know The the one that would be really expensive under this is the one that's exempt or proposed to be exempt under this Which is child care? Well, you hit on my last question And and Why why one single type of use is exempted? Sure So one of the questions our consultant posed to us is are there any things that that you want to have Be exempt and the you know the first one was affordable housing Because that's a that's a way to make housing more affordable is to not charge an impact fee Child care is often exempted in impact fee calculations Um In some ways a decision to exempt something is is a little bit of a decision to subsidize it. Um, we have specific Mandate in the state planning goals and in our comprehensive plan because the state says we need to address it To meet goals around the adequate provision of child care So I single it out Because there are some goals related to it that come all the way down from the state legislation that enables towns to do planning Um, because it feels like there's support for that use in town just in terms of what I've experienced in the time I've worked here and I've also had the experience of Working with people who were looking at starting that kind of use in williston who were significantly turned away By the prospect of paying What amounts to generally? $700 right now per Perspective child in the building. So someone who wants to do this at scale They're probably looking at a hundred child facility And that's a lot of money so if Restating what I just heard if child care facilities weren't exempt they would be one of the liabilities of having a higher What about I just Were other uses also considered, you know, maybe emergency facilities, you know, what do they call those? first Yeah, type type facilities I I'm at a loss for what other might be some other desirable high High-trip generator uses that are also, you know viewed as beneficial to willis then sure so We exempt town facilities We have not exempted state facilities Some of you may recall some back and forth about the park and ride although it mitigates Transportation impact region wide it does generate trips in williston and the towns taken in the past the position That it that it wants to see either a offset project or or a fee liability around that Which it's always fun to tell the state that, you know, you want them to pay you money When you're a creature of them But but we the town has taken that position before, you know, some of the other things we see, you know Even a a big doctor's office or an urgent care They're not really huge trip generators When when you think about a fast food restaurant that every customer might spend 10 or 15 minutes in and that is just absolutely designed for volume And if it's designed in a you know as a standalone not in that mixed-use context, that's a that's a really big trip generator Trying to think a standalone pizzeria with delivery It's going to be the it's going to be largely the food things It used to be drive-through banking, but there's just there's very little of that their their volumes are now Very low car wash Might be one again like a gas station But Childcare and fast food appear in my in my survey of it to be the really the overwhelmingly big Generators as a function of their cost You start building really big things You will start to Generate lots of trips, but as as you'll probably see with some of the projects. We looked at You know something really big and really new like burlington emergency vats as a percentage of their Construction cost so this is construction cost not land not soft cost not the cost of the mri machine They pulled in or anything anything else just the building And the site you know grading 0.75 of their cost was the transportation impact fee if we went to the new fee It would be a little over 2 percent of their of their construction cost would go toward impact fee Pretty pretty low In a rationale for exempting town facilities We'd just be paying ourselves Is that true? Well, we'd be taking some some money from ourselves and allocating it to these transportation. We'd be We'd be taking some money that we could spend on anything And putting it into a place where we're only able to spend it on those projects on the list Which the town generating trips is But on the other hand the concept for having that pot of money that we can spend on these projects is because the new Entity is generating trips and we don't want to reduce the quality of our traffic or so I mean, I don't see the town doing much, you know, but I'm wondering if is it really right to exempt town facilities. Well, I would say The odds of building all of these things on this list by 2040 without spending any general fund money slim none so that the town Will likely be spending money that's not its impact fee money to build any of these projects Impact fee money will get us part of the way, but we'll be paying We'll give the town the credit We're basically building a credit for ourselves in by exempting ourselves. Yes And I'm going to that I'm going to give some thought to And then here's here's my my bigger thing And I have to admit right upfront everyone is I'm a little bit skeptical And the and it's personal When we built our house in Williston, we paid that high school impact fee We didn't like it, but we understood we wanted to To live in Williston and it was a cost that was worth it to us The concept was is that was going to pay for a new school a new school that never happened In fact, we said we don't need the impact fee anymore And that's always kind of bothered me Not so much that it impacted me, but it bothered me that we thought we would have a use for this money And it turns out we didn't And so I guess my question is along the lines of how is this different? Does that all make sense? Sure Well, the first part is that under the enabling legislation for this if we don't if we take money from you and we don't spend it within six years We've got to give it back If I read this correctly it you have to apply to get it back. You do If you ask we have to give it back to you Um, I've asked Bruce our Bruce who our public works director before you know He said never never in my life as a public works director. Have I had to give this money back? We've always got something to spend it on um, and so I would I would say from my perspective of watching Williston actively work on projects that it it's Got a pretty good track record of meeting its commitment To improve transportation in town by spending its impact fee money So If you will stated differently is You don't envision the scenario that happened with the school impact fee happening with the transportation impact fee The the school impact fees were used to pay for projects that accommodated the You know the expansion of the community a good part of it went to cvu and there were expansion projects And it was that debt service over time that the impact fees as they came in helped paid out But I guess my point is is that the fact that we decided we don't need that Level impact in fact, I think we've gotten rid of the school impact fee totally We did because the the bonds were paid off for those expansions I guess my point is is we still have people coming Moving to Williston. They still are Providing kids But yet those kids were saying well, there's no impact of of them when I think all kids You know actually have the impact. It's just that we charged it to some people But not others And that's the part that I This is the function of state law that says we can only spend on To to address the impact of new development It might be you know state law. I'm sure doesn't always Help in the way we'd like it to but Well the the other thing jeff I would say about that is um, so when you You know you bond to build a school because you you need the space and you build it and you've built capacity, right? And then you're going to be paying an impact fees for that bond for many years after you build the school, but you're also Working into using all of that capacity and it works similarly for the transportation facility So we would take a bunch of impact money that came from people from now until some distance in the past And we'd build a big old street And then from when we built that street until under this plan until 2040 We're still kind of working into the full capacity of that So there's this idea that um, you're You're building more capacity than you need right away because that's just the way projects work But you're continuing to charge the fee So even the person who comes in 15 years after that road got built. They're adding to the demand on it They're bringing it closer to its full capacity and they're paying for it and I I think I get that I just wonder how come it didn't work with the school impact fee and You know, I think a piece of the school impact fee had to do with at one time We were pretty close to pulling the trigger on building the second half The bulletin central school I was on the school board You know when that and Today, I don't believe there's any discussion about Right the need so my point was is is along the lines of and this isn't meant to be criticizing of anybody. It's just We had vision but that vision and we had a way to charge impact fees for that and I assume plus the high school But a big chunk of that never needed to happen Right and that's kind of my concern about impact fees is do they always? If they don't predict the future accurately Are we charging people more money than they actually really ever should have been charged for Building a residence in willis then so under under the state law that allows for impact fees You should never be doing what you're describing now You and when you start planning to build that school, but you don't have your impact fee yet Your incurring expenses that can be made whole with impact fees later on And then you you know you go and bond for that school and then you're paying debt and paying debt and paying debt And then you might even start studying whether you need to build a bigger school or an addition All of that can be covered by impact fee But once you're you're done doing those things and you're not doing anything relating to accommodating New growth in your town You should not be charging the fee anymore. So the way it worked in williston was after Fiscal 2015 we no longer charged the portion of the school impact fee related to the development of the allenbrook school Because that bond had been paid off and We probably when we looked at it to talk about retiring that piece in beginning in fy 16 Said well the town did enough study and design work. We could probably justify charging it for another year But let's take the conservative road and get out of it So what remains for school impact fee, which is the blue bars on this graph? That's the cvu portion of the fee. So we're still taking in an impact fee related to the town share of expansion related improvements at cvu At some point We will go through that same process with cvu where we'll say all of those things have been paid for And the question will be put to you folks Um Well, it'll be put to the whole town first off Do we need to do anything more to expand at cvu? And then if the answer is yes does williston want to pay for its share of that in part with an impact fee Or do we just want to do it? Collectively out of a general fund I sort of get this um my facetious and i'll stop here My facetious. Please take this in the humor. It is meant is So when looking to a community to move to you should choose a community based on those that have just paid off their bonds At fees will be less Quite possibly You know, I mean There there was a little bit of friction in that the newspaper article about this impact fee Quoted me as saying it'll it'll raise the cost of development and could raise the cost I think it was implied at least could raise the cost of a house. Well Yeah, typically um when somebody goes to build a house, they have a certain amount of money They want to make on that project and you know, they look at all their costs including the impact fees and You know within what the market can bear that gets passed on to the home buyer and you're deciding whether it's worth it At that moment in time in that place To buy that house The other side of that is to the extent that we have this money coming in to help pay for these things We don't have property tax money going out to pay for those things right and I helps us to keep a lower I think I understand the concept of You want to charge at least a good apportion appropriate apportion To the folks that are moving to Willis then Whether they be residential or commercial and are causing the impacts So that the residents through their taxes That whatever Are not footing the bill I get that piece of it Further questions or comments from the board? I apologize for you know So if we're Pleased with what we have tonight the proposal is then to have a motion to schedule a public hearing on the on this and there's our Suggested motion at the on the back of matt's It's different than the motion in the manager's report Pardon me. It's different than the proposed motion in the manager's The back of matt's I mean they accomplish the same thing so either way the other choice tonight. That's right It's one of the managers report as well I'd move to schedule a public hearing on the proposed amendments to the town's unified development by-law Was there a second There's a discussion on the motion You use the word please I wouldn't Well, I use that to describe my position, but I think we should move ahead to the public hearing Public hearing is it hearing What's that? We were in agreement and he said please. Yes. Okay. Okay. I will Revise my language to The discussion on the motion If not, all those in favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Thank you very much matt Thank you I'll move it on to the budget review preliminary report and rick's has a large document for us So I we're actually going to divide this report in several different sections of eric talk about section and We'll be shortly worked on a section and then eric will come back and talk about another section, but I think I wanted to frame the issues that we're looking for feedback on And one of them is actually an attachment to the report budget review schedule The schedule that's been proposed is generally fairly similar to what we've been in prior years I would say the only major difference is that we are going to be putting off review of the water sewer and storm water budgets in general after March I would say probably early april There's no need for us to have those done By before town meeting and that just adds to your workload during that time frame. So I've I'm Figured the board probably wouldn't be too upset if we move that to a later date And So really that's the only major change to the schedule The plan that you'll hear Discuss tonight also talks about a citizen engagement plan And so we would like some direction if are we on the right track? Look at something different Whatever feedback And in the final piece of the funding priorities You know, we will be getting obviously a detailed discussion on funding priorities when we present the budget Which is in December But we wanted to kind of give you a preview of some of the major things that we Think we're going to be facing. We won't know for sure until we actually see the budget presentations But for example, we know we're going to have a significant increase in health insurance costs That's one thing we know at this point in time We're not quite sure how big that increase will be We have a rough idea But That's just one of the issues Another issue that I don't even know if it's on this list, but I learned today that the culvert That serves the money brook on Marshall avenue that the bridge between wilson and south barlington That condition of that culvert is deteriorating Faster So that That project is in the design phase right now. So we are moving forward with it. It's a huge expense So it's an expense we'll probably need to bond for We may need to move up that date of bonding Sooner than we anticipated I don't think we'll be ready for that for next fiscal year In other words, I don't think it'll be part of the budget for next fiscal year, but I don't know what year we had originally had it scheduled, but that's just one example of some changes that Are likely to be Discussed as we get into the budget process, but to the extent that the board wants to give us any direction You know, certainly that's encouraged But you'll get your complete shot at the whole budget in december and january So this is nothing is fixed in stone For whatever you guidance you provide tonight, but To the extent you want do want to provide guidance. We'll certainly do what we can to Follow that So with that we will turn to irrick. Thank you So I worked on the first section of this report looking at economic trends for the town and the region Offer off A few highlights here are some some facts that were interesting Wilson's median income of 81 and a half Thousand dollars Is above chitin and counties of just about 64 and a half thousands and us median income of six just over 63 Thousand dollars. These are most recent numbers currently American community survey Employment in town in 2018. I'm using the state of vermont Labor department data our labor force just over 5100 people of our population Unemployment rate of wilson residence is about 2.1 percent Population in town looking at the census bureau's 2018 estimate was 98 9,870 people And this is interesting from 2007 to 2017 Wilson's population increased increased by 1,240 people Just over 100 people per year And then looking at that compared to other towns that are growing which can be a an exception in vermont These days only sx and south bronyton added more residents than wilson over that decade of time here our neighbors in chitin and county Also took a look at age demographics chitin and county Median age is just over 36 year old years old It's only slightly lower than it was in 2007 36.9 and the median age in vermont is 42.8 Looking at wilson in comparison to chitin and county the percentage of under 18 year olds and wilson is about 24 percent And in the county that's 18 percent And another No is over 65 population wilson is about 14.8 well in the county. It's 13.5 We also looked at cost of living and the inflation rate And notice in recent months this year The monthly rate increases had decreased indicating a slowing rate of inflation at least for right now So looking at these trying to draw some general data conclusions Looking at a higher regional median income and a lower unemployment rate rate Covered with a lower rate of inflation some indicators of more disposable income for residents in town and in the region That could be one of many factors influencing our higher receipts for our local options tax and anticipated as we've talked about in the past It's a good source of income also a volatile source of income that can fluctuate as part of our general fund budget And study population growth in town is really propelled wilson to become a medium size vermont community Getting close to 10 000 residents in town And so with a growing community also comes in need for increased needs for services and funding for that over time And the town's population demographics are another reflected measure of the nature of services See the the older and younger populations in town are a little variance from the county youth population Higher equalized pupils in the school system can affect overall Taxes for folks and compared with the education and municipal tax rates And in comparison older population as well. They they may need more Emergency services ems services and that type of thing. So all pieces of the picture to keep in mind here with future budget planning So The first part of what I was looking at it was the overall financial health of the town So first looking at the fund balance and our fund balance I'll just say June 30th was 7.8 million round numbers, but Big number, but there's a very small piece of that That is unrestricted meaning that we can use it for whatever we need to So i'm really focusing on that piece called the unassigned fund balance. I'm focusing on that piece and Looked at the June 30th balance was $2.5 million and it has been increasing and Most recently the select board in 2017 Assigned part of that fund balance to use to reduce property taxes Or else we would have seen that trend could go go up more than we did So then I looked at the fund balance in relation to our fund balance policy And if you take the total and I'm using June because I don't have 2018 because I don't have 2019 done yet total town and highway expenses 9.9 million The high point of our in our policy for the fund balance is 20 of that number Which is I'll just say roughly 2.2 million and we are currently sitting at 2.4 million um, so We're we're above our target, but I think We're listening to what's happening with the economy. We know what's happening with the fed funds rate That's starting to go back down. So even though we're above target. It does provide us a little bit more protection and if we go into a recession so You know, whether we use it to minimize a property tax rate increase or use it to Purchase a capital asset instead of, you know, taking out debt. It gives us a little bit more flexibility Then I looked at a few Financial ratios and these are really hard to do for the town because They're really for not profit for profit entities So I tried to find a few that would be meaningful for the town So first I looked at the quick ratio, which is just looking at the current assets of the town Which are cash or things that can be converted to cash within 90 days In comparison to the current liabilities. So do you have enough? Current assets to cover your current liabilities Well, the town as you know is Cash we work with cash. So we've got a lot of cash So the town and again, I'm using June 30th audited financial statement numbers can cover its current liabilities nine times over So we're we're doing really well with that quick ratio The other ratio I looked at was the debt solvency ratio meaning You're looking at the town's total liabilities as a percentage or ratio of its total assets Um, and that's that's long-term debt. That's all liabilities and all assets and the from a peer risk perspective as a I'll say a credit agency or a bank or you know, the Vermont municipal bond bank You know how they look at um someone for their credit worth worthiness If they look at this ratio, they're looking at a ratio of 0.4 or lower The town is at 0.25. So that ratio is Is doing well within the guidelines of the ratio When you're talking about total assets, do you mean things like highways and like everything because I've seen I've seen that statistic in other reports over the years. But is that what that means or is that so in this Number this is not including those fixed assets Um, okay, I was going to say is it make more sense that it does not so okay, right? Thank you um The next table I think you've seen because rick has presented it before and there are more current numbers out on the vermont state website, but it's just um The municipal tax residential tax rate and chitin and county in williston is the second lowest in the county Um, and then I Just using our current debt I just did a debt schedule service schedule to show you the balance of our debt So the where it's going and um, what the balance and this this is representing the balance At each year end. So, you know, I just projected it out through 2025 It's the balance there was 3 million 2.2 million of that debt is our public works building So I think there's five or six other loans that are Between 80 and Almost 300 000. So what we have left other than that public works debt is very minimal The only thing I haven't included in this schedule is um In march of last year the voters approved 1.4 million for the new fire trucks So I don't have that projected in here yet Which leads me into the next part of My task was to look at potential budget changes And I'm I'm not going to go through all of these because I don't want to leave you with the impression We're looking at one versus the other. These are just, you know, I reached out to the department heads for inputs for potential Items to include in the capital budget and until I think we get to that process and we know what it looks like We don't know what's going to be included or excluded. But the one thing that we do know that's going to be included is Some new debt for those fire trucks. So I think We would look at yes, we did get approval for the 1.4 million, but we also have a generous Unassigned fund balance. So maybe we want to Take a loan for one of the fire trucks and one of them is 400 000 and maybe we want to use Fund balance for that and then, you know, keep that interest and that payment out of the tax rate So things to consider And I'm going to let you ask me if you have questions about the other one But the other one that I wanted to to to mention that is specifically in Rick already mentioned was the health insurance. We know that there we that is definitely going to be something in the fy 21 budget We just don't know the dollar amount of that yet And the other thing is that we'll get prioritized as we put the budget together and see where we're at and the only revenue one I have is The grand list did increase I asked Bill what his estimate of what that might be and he just gave me three quarters of a percent But I haven't done the calculation to turn that into what that revenue might look like but There were no other revenue streams. We expect at this point to Increase Dramatically from last year and I think we were talking about The local options tax and how so a couple years ago like Rick you're familiar with this a couple years ago There was a court case that Happened occurred in the Midwest, but it changes the sales tax Um And where sales tax is paid and collected and so your online sales So vermont is able to pick up more sales tax those online sales even though We don't there's no bricks and mortar in the state of vermont because that's what the old law used to be There had to be bricks and mortar in order to collect sales tax now because of the growth of the internet We can actually collect sales tax revenue just from internet sales So I don't know that we have information to know the impact of that as it continues to roll out And how that's going to affect the sales tax part of the local options tax, but that's a possibility I'm a little bit confused. Sorry usually done Would it be bait That sales tax that's internet based What what are what is it charged on I guess it's maybe the best way to Um, all right. Is it services that are based in Williston or I I bought something online recently through Amazon And sales tax. Oh, okay, right Amazon now will right you used to be able to shop online and no sales tax So now they should be it's on goods. It's not services So an example might be is um, I'm a member of rei rei is going to have a store in vermont Actually in Williston They don't have what I want. So I ordered online. I will be I am charged a sales tax that will Thus come to Williston Okay, because it's based on where the Okay, I won't say all vendors, you know, we're collecting that sales tax yet, but I think you will see More and more vendors get on board and be compliant Yeah, it's only fair okay To close out the report we took a look at engagement strategies for this year Work for the community to interact and provide feedback and in the budget processes as we get ready for it here So I offer a different framework to kind of think about engagement. It's from the strength thing It's sustaining public engagement in vermont from a group called public agenda So think about these different nodes. Do you have conventional engagement the classic Meeting public hearing someone sits provides testimony to the board thoughts on an issue An idea of thick engagement more intensive informed and deliberative Most the action happens in small group discussions Then thin engagement faster easier more convenient a range of activities allow people to express their opinions Make choices or affiliate themselves with a particular group or cause So I took those nodes that try to um expand on this And first I'm just thinking we'll work again information our usual ways we do in town electronic and paper handouts We started to have a library of information videos about the budget on the town's youtube channel social media posts from porch forum the town website So we get the information out there then how do we want people to engage in the information and create a feedback loop with with the town so For the thin engagement piece We're going to try out an online platform. It's called balancing acts We're able to get a really a good deal on this for a few months. I'm going back and forth with them We can load the budget numbers into this and we can ask some questions It gives residents a chance to play with the budget a little bit look at some issues There's a lot of um capability for it So we can we can take a closer look at that and the board can decide some so maybe policy areas where there's some specific Feedback sought using that tool. Um getting a demo on it this week So I'll have more kind of information once I see it in action and how we can build that as a resource The other thing is to use as we've done in the past social media has as a way to provide comments Not necessarily not back and forth for the one-way communication We did something last year. We created a sidewalk map. So using the mapping component potentially They give different ways to engage people and get them involved People are busy and finding ways for them to do something online quickly getting excited about something So that's that's always a challenge Budget season does happen during in a sense I think the worst time of year first of all over the holidays um, not that people aren't thinking about budget but different budgets and And uh, they're busy and then it's also winter when a lot of people just hate to go out I mean, that's just the reality One question I had is the school uses a and this may not be appropriate for this type budget development But still just throw it out there uses a budget buddy type Process is there any benefit to Seeing if there might be a couple one a couple community members who would want to Actually sit through the budget process and provide feedback I think it's it's a worthwhile endeavor if someone's interested in that I think you know really interested any strategies to try Four years And it's Trying to get people engaged and having a dialogue as is a challenge every year. Yes. It's really really hard. Yeah I'd be open anything the the board wants to explore further on this and I could have a dialogue with the school about how The final piece of the thick engagement that's looking at more small groups look looking at an issue Potentially we could see if residents are interested in attending some type of educational interactive session on the budget You know picture this room and some tables breakout groups Maybe some some overview and then some scenario problem-solving and Same idea with the online platform. Maybe you put that to the group some of those questions They talk as a small group they report out to a larger group Then that feedback is captured and shared with the board That's a way of people to engage in a group setting and different different ways to provide that feedback but That's something we could explore if there's interest we We are kind of tight on time coming up too So we could at least try something on a smaller scale or pilot it and see if it might work to expand in future years Then the conventional engagement piece looking at the other public hearing as the board does every year for the budget I've seen presentations about trying different things out a public hearing too But I know it's been challenging to get folks to come to those as well to provide inputs, so it's I sleep to the board. There's there's different ways and different ideas we can try as well. So That's my report on that Any further feedback to erica or surely on Their proposals I found this to be actually very helpful. I did go through it. It Doesn't mean I'm still not going to sit there at the end going how much is the tax rate increase, you know, but it's our job Very helpful to go through this So I think this was a good idea. This will be on our website too. I assume Yeah, we will make sure it is actually it is now anyway Yeah, but we can maybe turn it a little bit different problem at place We put it a couple places actually I think If you'd back on the review budget review schedule Before we go on though the relative to thick engagement. What about the homeowners associations? I'm just wondering Even if it's a targeted, you know, can we use your email list to you know Send a link to the youtube channel video on our budget presentations or or something or maybe even something more than that saying, you know Please, you know engage Play play the online budget video game. Um, I know that's not what it's called. That's what I envisioned Um, I would and actually this is I I don't mean to sound anti Democratic small d but One of the things I'm always concerned about with in the engagement in the budget process is you you get you do get some Engagement to get some feedback, but It's entirely possible to get just a very select group of people who don't represent the whole town Who don't want any taxes ever Or who yes, you know The how come we don't have a rec rec center with an indoor pool all for free You know, I mean these these are the things that I remember from past experiences. But anyway, you know with that You know caveat, I think I'm getting a lot more feedback is a great idea good Moving on to charter change proposal. I hear I can say I'll actually pass it out This brings back to the board our discussions the last couple meetings would propose charter amendments For the board tonight. We're looking for a motion to warn the first of two public hearings on this of the prescriptive charter change protocol I will offer rick just passed out the piece we were talking about last meeting about self-governance component and looking for potential strategies to Increase local control there and kind of engaged of legislature with a dialogue further along if the the voter support something like this The league of cities and towns has a working committee looking at this And I shared with them the language we had we had looked at here initially and their working group reviewed it and they Applauded the town for for looking at this right now and They had a Further just minor Modifications of the language we had in our draft originally So rick just passed that out what came from the lct advocacy to me over the weekend So they're they're playing moving forward with this is to share at the vlct annual meeting And look to see if there's a coalition of other municipalities that want to put this question for on the charter change coming up this year So the town to consider That language has been slightly modified The idea is to have multiple towns in the state offering up the same charter amendment as a as a coalition approach to this issue I'm not seeing any a difference in the two just different use Just diction and I just want to make sure you feel the same way the idea is the same Yeah, yeah same same content them just a couple work changes I'm I'm good with going with that approach the language that vlct is recommending It's also suggested this may get changed again before we go finish this process, but okay, you know, it's But the idea is The concept is to try to work together and use some consistent language if we can So the question before us is um, will we schedule a public hearing on the proposal and if there's a motion perhaps you could modify the motion to substitute in article two language for the Once is proposed by on the language Just a second That's your discussion on the motion And that included the vlct language. Yes. Okay. It was the amended language. Yes The favor of the motion say aye. Aye. Aye. Any opposed um We did the justice commission appointments, but is there any um feedback to As far as the future appointment process in as far as discussing The appointments well folks are still here or postponing the the action if there's Actually the only time we probably would want to do that is if there's a contest for what postponing We're we're just postponing it to later in the meeting. Yeah. Yeah I would agree with that when there's yeah When it's contested because that gives the the applicants a chance to leave if they choose I mean they certainly can stay Yeah, and it gives the board members a chance to think a little bit more and deliberate and it also You know, frankly if the candidates are not in the room, I think it frees up discussion a bit Which would make a better decision I don't want to move it to the next meeting or say, you know, we'll go into deliberative We can't anyway. I'm going to deliberative session. Um, but I I think it's You know, I I feel awkward, you know telling people, you know, you're you're great, but you You shouldn't have come I think it's a good idea Of course, we've been blessed with such quality people. I know it's it makes it very difficult Yeah, well that that's awful from my perspective because it makes it that much more awkward for me It's like, you know, you're both great It's one thing to sit there and say I ditto is sit there and say you you were very articulate I told you you said exactly. Yeah, I mean it was very clear what you said I just disagreed that you're the person we should I mean that's not so hard to do but when you've got Yeah Sounds like we have consensus on that then we'll move on to the members report So there's a few items I wanted to touch on briefly speed tables one the speed table on north wilson road has been removed Meanwhile, there are new speed tables being put in infinity crossing These speed tables are not being installed by the tab But they were required as part of they They're permit approval by the drb And so you will see and I think how many are there four or more At least four So we're already starting to get complaints Are these temporary ones also? No, these are not temporary. These are permanent It's actually much better Because it was turning into a drag race through there just as it is through bloodhark and Well, that was the intent is to not have it as a drag race So and and I will repeat my offer If the town is looking for a new location for the temporary speed table I can recommend one In your driveway is that You can put it in front of our house Yeah, yep governor titan road can see Speeding people can do Yes, I can All right. So anyway, I'm moving along we Are going to be the recipient of a fairly substantial grant And to the tune of 300,000 And we this is a joint grant with other communities And it Eric why don't you briefly explain what that's grants about sure It's going to cover paramedic training for two of our firefighters and that's shared with two other municipalities So three folks from sx rescue and two from cold chest or rescue So this grant will cover their Training at vermont technical college. I believe it's an 18 month training opportunity Their materials books and other things needed for the course It also covers wages because Will they're away at class they need to backfill those shifts So this grant will pay that backfill wages for those shifts or someone taking over for them so they can be in school So it's Quite a significant grant for the town to be a part of That's great. It's also interesting and I think very good to see that vermont technical college offers This program. I mean that's also very A very good thing. I did not know that I'd like to on a different matter announce That one of our staff has received an award. That's sarah mason. She was Selected as a system town clerk of the year by the vermont Municipal clerks and treasurers association at their annual meeting that happened earlier this week and so we were all very happy for sarah and Made a nice little big sign A lot downstairs downstairs for We also finalized the promotion Of one of our police officers to the position the newly created position of lieutenant And the person that was selected through a process was sergeant joshua more And so he will be sworn in Probably The before the end of this month But then we'll have more of a ceremonial swearing in a little bit later because I believe we may have some other people to Be sworn in actually the we're going to be We're doing a promotional process to replace the sergeant's position with so we'll Want to do that swearing in together with the lieutenant And then I guess the final thing is We're still working on the library director position the we did The second round of interviews yesterday terry. Thank you. I participated in that process Um, we had um, it was a three step process We had around the first round involved a panel of individuals including terry and a number of library patrons and and parents and Friends of the library and then a couple of trustees sat in on that And the candidates had to give a presentation on a an issue that was given to them which focused on How to bring in all these new people are coming into the community particularly in fenny crossing and how to Make them aware of library services and draw them in and the candidates both had some very interesting ideas on that front and in the second round of Yesterday was for the candidates have some a little bit less formal time with the employees And eric was the facilitator for that and so this candidate's got a chance to get a brief tour and Have a discussion with the employees back and forth about You know procedures and and whatever And then the final piece was a formal interview before the library trustees And then we gave the trustees a report on each of the candidates from the earlier interviews and They deliberated somewhat They're still working through their process and they have another meeting set up But I will say that The trustees and and and I are of like mind as to who we like so There's no no conflicts there no issues So that's always a good thing And that concludes my matters report for this evening Any questions for rick before we go on to other business any other business that we need to discuss tonight Hearing none Thank you all Copy of what matt brought to the meeting here. Oh, yes Thank you