 Good morning, everyone. Our panel is going to be a great segue into what was spoken about yesterday, some touching based on something issues that were spoken about yesterday and how we should evolve further. So first, Ms. Houdad is going to speak about sexual terrorism in Africa, so a specific issue. Then we're going to get into a larger issue of how women get involved in terrorism. One is through the sexual terrorism. And then Ms. Washington, soon to be Dr. Washington, is going to be speaking about what we can do about these issues, the military strategy into combating sexual violence. So I think this is a great segue to yesterday. Ms. Houdad. Good morning, everyone. If I get started, I'm going to set a timer. And also to thank the Naval War College of Mary Realm for inviting me to come and speak on this topic. I don't think that this is being talked about enough, so I'm very honored to be standing before each day in order to talk about it. I also need to give a little disclaimer. Sexual terrorism in Africa, as you might guess, is a pretty heavy topic and a big graphic. So I will try to keep those instances to a minimum. However, to illustrate some few points, I will be talking about a few horrible things. Also, I am also a skating reviewer of the UN, not as fervent as Matruder. But I do have my issues with the UN, and I will be talking a little bit about that. So I like to be a little bit more interactive in my talk. So I just have a couple of questions if you guys would indulge me for a moment. Has anyone been to or stationed to Africa, if you would please raise your hands. Wow, quite a few people. So I have never been to Africa. Unfortunately, I would love to go. But if I say something out of turn, just yell at me, tell me that, no, in my experience, this is not exactly how it is. I'm an academic. I wish I could be more in the field. So if there is something that I'm saying out of turn, just let me know. Also, does anyone, I want to do a word association exercise. When I say Africa, what kind of problems do you think about in relation to Africa? What place, the nation, the most? Anyone? Corruption. Corruption, that's a good one. Food shortage. Economic problems. Health. Health. Ethnic diversity. So a lot of very diverse issues and a lot of issues, just in general. Africa composes of 16% of the world's population. There's some of the poorest and sickest people. They have some of the most corrupt nations, some of the most fragile states in the entire world. Because of that, there's a lot of terrorism that is emerging from those different war-torn areas. And because there's a lot of terrorism, there's also been a large emergence of sexual terrorism. Does anyone know the definition of sexual terrorism? OK, good, because I do. It's a practice executed in the name of a state, an oppositional entity, or their surrogates, as part of a political, racial, religious, or ethnic armed conflict. So it's slightly different than terrorism in the sense that it's a targeted agenda used by these groups in order to incite fear. So rape and specific instances, although horrible, are a part of sexual terrorism. Sexual terrorism consists of many different things, forced impregnation, mutilation of the genitalia, gang rape, rape in general, and forced marriage. So it encompasses a large gamut of different things. Just a quick history on sexual terrorism. Sexual terrorism goes back as far back as we can, as we have documentation of it, goes back to the Bible, Greek and Roman mythology and history. In the Bible, in the Torah, in the Old Testament, there is instances of war-torn areas that people would rape the women. And in Greek and Roman mythology, the women, it was a common practice of war. And it was expected, when you were defeated, to be raped. So it has a very long history. I'm not going to go quite into all of the intricacies, because I don't have time. It's also been brought in since the Total War campaigns, which Total War was coined by General Sherman in the Summoner War of the 1800s, 1840s. And his philosophy was that hostile peoples, as well as hostile armies, needed to feel the hard hands of war. So his philosophy was that the Total War needs to affect everyone to make it so that war would be so bad that no one would want to go to war. So modern terrorism and modern terrorists have used this idea of Total War and instituted it into its campaigns, because they want everyone to feel the hard hands of war. After World War II, although we had a stage of peace, we couldn't quite get to peace. And we've actually gone over into what modern terrorism is, because global visibility, which has been aided by the availability of sophisticated weapons, money, and technology. So terrorism, unfortunately, has been boosted by cell phones and internet connections and more inflows of cash and automatic weapons and things like that. So because of the influx of terrorism, sexual terrorism has become a byproduct of that. So there is five main motivations behind sexual terrorism. The first is ideology. A lot of these groups feel that it's pardonable because it's a byproduct of war. It's collateral damage. These women are spoils of war. So and due to the lack of really enforceable laws or laws that are in place that aren't really being taken into account, these groups feel that it's OK for them to rape and because they're not being tried for these crimes, that they can continue to do so. Their mere toys in the hands of the soldiers is what a quote from a Rwandan soldier has said. Also, they feel like it's some groups. Some groups feel that it's their right as part of a religious sort of tenant. Instance of this is Boko Haram, which I'm sure everyone is aware of. The Shabbat kidnapings and things like that, which I'll go into a little bit later. Boko Haram is a staunch follower of ISIS and ISIL and the extremist teachings of the Quran. They believe in the rape of kafirs, which are infidels or unpracticing Muslims. So they feel that during times of war and civil conflicts that it is their right as part of their religion to take women and force them into sexual slavery or they call them brides, but they're not actually marrying them, which is why the title of my paper is called Unwilling Brides, because there is not quite that stuff, and they're also being forced into it. Additionally, in Africa, there's a large mystic sort of population. Some of these groups, including the FDLR, which is mostly within the DR Congo, believe that rape will enhance their magical potions against their enemies, which will allow them to win against their enemies. So there's this large population of magic. It's a very sort of mystical and not quite understood by a lot of people that magic could be such a large tenant of this idea of rape and their enemies will be vanquished because of this rape. So a lot of these groups will rape as many women as possible in order to make their magic potions and their magic become more susceptible to the enemy. The second motivation is propaganda. They use this as an enticement for newer groups. In Africa, there's 1.1 billion people. 52% is under the age of 25, and 70% of those people live on less than $3.10 a day. So there's extreme poverty rampant, especially among young people. So in these terrorist groups, they use that as a way to entice young people in order to join. And because they're giving them this opportunity to leave their poverty and come into an organization where terrorism is not an organization, into this group where they would feel accepted and would have food on the table and not be in such extreme poverty. Additionally, because the area is mostly on Muslim and Christian, again, with the magic, there is a large abstinence sort of following. So there's a lot of sexual frustration among young men, especially if they're impoverished and they can't get married. So these terrorist groups are using this idea of gaining rides for these young men so that they can live out their sexual frustration. So these terrorist groups are using the poverty and this idea that they can't have sex before marriage as a way to entice young men into their goals. The third motivation is indiscriminate amoral violence. Rape is a cheaper means of achieving the same goals. They don't have to use bullets. They don't have to buy guns. They don't have to use bombs. They can use a part of their anatomy that they have at all times. So it's a lot cheaper for them to use rape as a form of terror amongst the people. Their aim is to dehumanize and devastate not only the victim, but the victim's families and the communities in which they live. More often than not, rape is very stigmatized in the area because female chastity, like I mentioned earlier with the abstinence, it's highly regarded. So once a woman is raped, she is usually ostracized from her family and her community and left with either pregnant or with STIs, HIV. Or in a lot of cases, because the rape is so brutal, she dies. So there is quite a bit of stigma and these terrorist groups are using that stigma in order to dehumanize as many people as possible so that they can gain more followers who don't want to hurt status quo. The fourth motivation is voluntary compliance. So they use this indiscriminate amoral violence in order to get compliance, as I said before. Boko Haram is a very prime example of this. They're actually considered the deadliest terrorist group in the world. They've had 20,000 deaths in the last three years and they've displaced 2.6 million people. We never hear about Boko Haram, though, other than in the case of the Shabbat kidnappings, which I think is a crime. We hear a lot about ISIS and although they are terrible, they're not the deadliest and they're not provoking the most terror on the most people. And at this time, Boko Haram is. As you know, they've kidnapped 276 girls from the Shabbat school, but this is not their first kidnappings. They've kidnapped 2,000 girls since 2014. They often sell these girls to other terrorist groups, keep them for themselves as brides, or they use them as suicide bombers, which the women actually prefer because they get away from this horrible section of terror that they're going through. Just as a side note, when a woman is sold as a bride to another terrorist group, they get approximately 12 US dollars for that person, which might be a lot of money in Africa, but that's just horrible. And also, the younger, the more money they get. The DR Congo is similarly a huge issue with the FDLR. It's considered the rape capital of the world because every hour, 48 women are raped. The FDLR is a Hutu extremist faction group. I'm not gonna go quite into detail about them. I'm sure a lot of you know quite a bit about them. However, 13% of its victims with sexual terrorism are under 14, 3% of its victims die of, as a result of the rape, and 10 to 12% of its victims contract HIV AIDS. And many, many more are impregnated. These are also, I should mention, not quite accurate numbers because, again, a lot of these rapes are stigmatized so a lot of women don't come forward and report them. So these are, although accurate, it's probably larger. It's because of the lack of reporting by women. In 2010, in the Kivas region, the FDLR raped 15,000 people in one month. So they're quite prolific in the area. Two instances, which are the graphic ones that I'm gonna go into. They tied a woman to a tree. She was gang raped by five people and when she tried to escape, they cut off her arms. Which is just horrible. So it's just a very rampant problem. Another instance was a woman who was gang raped by 11 people in front of her husband and she had to watch as they killed him and then she was forced to eat some of his body parts. So that might be horrible and I hope you're keeping your coffee down. But that's just the tip of the iceberg on what's going on in the DR Congo and no one's talking about it. I only have a minute left so I'm gonna go quickly into the last one. It's, and I've already kind of discussed it. The last motivation is societal perceptions of the terrorists and the terrorized. So because of these horrible acts that are occurring, a lot of people are unwilling to stand up and fight against the terrorist groups. One and two, again, there's a large stigma regarding rape and being a bride of these terrorist groups. Briefly, my scathing review of the international response. There's only been six resolutions on the topic of Africa and sexual terrorism since 2000. The solutions within these resolutions are primary legal and medical in nature. So there hasn't been any concrete ways in order for Africa to combat this problem. The Office of Sexual Violence and Conflicts, last communique on Africa was in 2014 which is to me atrocious that we just aren't talking about this problem. Because so many women are affected by this. Although I do not blame the UN for the rise of sexual terrorism, there are lack of responses alarming and it's just a little bit too little, too late at this point. Unfortunately, I must end on a semi-bleak note. I do not have any solutions on how to combat this problem. I just wanted to present it in front of all of you and try to get the word out there that there is a huge problem in Africa about sexual terrorism and all over the world, but especially in Africa. And I hope in the next decade that we can amplify this problem and try to present solutions that will help these women and will also aid Africa in its fight against sexual terrorism. Thank you very much. Thank you, now we'll hear from Dr. Masters who's very well published in The Subject of Terrorism. Thanks everybody for having me. It's really a pleasure to be here to see so many accomplished people working in the area of security. I'm going to date myself a little bit. I thought, I was thinking about how long have I been doing, you know, working terrorism, accomplishing terrorism? And I figured the area is probably about 20 years, but I think I missed a decade somewhere in there because it's been more like 30 years of looking at conflict terrorism from a variety of perspectives, not just academic but working in the intelligence community. I've been really, really lucky to be able to have the kind of access that I have. And in particular, my specialty is really about understanding people and understanding the groups. I worked in the government in information operation so it wasn't about dropping bombs, it was more how do we influence the situation, how do we understand how to do it? And that was just the most amazing work. And so I just continued to do it. I, in the last few years, I've just been really publishing and doing things to, you know, to highlight where there are still major gaps in the study of terrorism. And one of the chapters in our most recent book, where I collaborated with another colleague from NSA, was particularly about women and women in terrorist groups. So I spent also about seven years going back and forth to Northern Ireland. I have pretty much interviewed, I think everybody who's ever lived there. And I spent a lot of times in the communities. And so while you see women who are still, to this day, traumatized by conflict, sitting in on their sessions, watching them try to get over the rampant sectarianism that still exists, and while people talk about peace, it's peace without security. And I don't even know if we can call that peace. So anyway, that's a little bit about my background. So when I was reading that chapter that the woman wrote about women in terrorism, you know, she made a lot of interesting points, like, you know, here's what's happening, here's what a role. But what was particularly missing to me, and subsequently when I looked more into literature and was reading more about how women are, you know, talked about why do they do it? There's never a real explanation for it. So that's kind of how I, you know, took this talk when I was talking to Mary about what I wanted to talk about. It seemed like a great subject. So obviously there's a lot of literature out there. And women in these groups play the same roles as men. But as a role, they're not found in the upper echelons of leadership, right? So they are, so why they can be active supporters or passive supporters, they're not going to lead groups. Their real status depends on the norms of the group, which obviously driven by society and the way things work for women in that society. So if you look at, for example, Hamas, Chechen groups, al-Qaeda, Iraq, before ISIS, using women in these groups, particularly as suicide bombers, they really give these groups a tactical advantage, especially because of our perceptions about women, our stereotypes of going that women can't be perpetrators. And there's also cultural norms of searching women, which made it very hard to say on, you know, forces, just forces in particular, people on the other side of conflict. So women are also perceived as expendable. You know, in especially suicide bombers, it's a really calculated move on a part of these groups to use women in this way because they bring a lot of media value and attention to the group. It also demonstrates that, oh, look, we have to use women because enough men are stepping up, so it's really like a recruitment tool for other people to join. So if you look at an example, and I don't know if everybody remembers the Feslam school massacre in Russia, but the Chechen group went in and basically it was hard that all these children had died. And a Russian reporter had done this study because, of course, everything was so closed, you couldn't really get the real story. But they had some, she had some accounts in there that these women were actually, some of them were actually arguing with the male colleagues because they weren't told they were gonna have to kill children. And so you can see sometimes, you know, they get into situations and although they join the group, you know, they don't agree, but by virtue of being in this group, they're forced to do some things that they don't agree with. And the role of women really can evolve over time in certain groups. And I think the Tamil Tigers is a really good example of this. Now, when women and men were not allowed to be married or have relationships in the group because they thought it would be a distraction, only they thought it would be a distraction. But of course, when he met a woman and fell in love with her, he decided that people could get married. And, but a woman couldn't get married until she was 25. But interestingly, if she, if there was a proposal of marriage, the women who led the women's, you know, group in, within the Tamil Tigers, she would have to be asked for permission. And then the actual combatant of the woman would can refuse marriage. And it seemed like something that evolved progressively over time. I think you will find this also in the criminal hierarchy a little more progressive in terms of women's roles, but not in many other groups. So why do women do it? You know, if you look at, again, accounts that are taken, we really don't see a lot of real focus on, okay, what they're doing. And so they're sort of all talked around or, you know, mentioned as, oh, will all women do it this way? And this is the reason why all this group of women do this. And that's not getting us any further understanding women as perpetrators. So women are judged in the public forum differently, okay, than men. And they are often sensationalized in the media. So they're depicted as un-ladylike, unmalable tea, first to do something. They focus on things that such as looks, personal background, relationships with men, sexuality, style of dress. And so they're already being depicted in one stereotype story. In these accounts of women, you know, they really incorporate irrelevant details, you know, of their lives that have no causal relationship to why they were radicalized in the first place and why they joined. So for example, like the name of the Pats, or, you know, whether they like the spice rolls in the western, you know, in the western world. So that really doesn't help. Any of us really understand why they do it. Um. So they're also judged, and this is the most, I think, terrifying part of how we do women. They're more cruel, fanatical. They've gone bad. They can't, you know, because some of them, of course, are raising their children in this environment, sending them off to be killed as martyrs. And so these depictions of women, of course, you know, are always after something obviously very wrong. The men are fine joining this, but women are not. So they're also judged through stereotypes. And I think, in a sense, you know, I'm guilty of this as well. As mothers, daughters, wives, or sisters, I mean, that's how they're actually depicted in these accounts. And not that they have any free will or could make a decision on their own, which could be quite the case. And so they have to do, then, what their brothers or fathers say, you know, and that's why they're doing it. You know, they're often called jihadi brides, which basically drives me up the wall. These accounts of women, you know, like, of the course they're applied. That's, you know, that's all they can be. It ascribes motivation to women, and it's not accurate all the time. So the literature, again, makes these broad generalizations about motivation. And so I think we all have heard the term Black Widow. This is another one that drives me pretty much in saying. So they called them these because these women were active within the Chechen group and their husbands had died. But, you know, really, if you're looking back on some of the accounts of the stories of these women, which you actually need to understand and know, they're not, that's not the reason why they actually joined the group, and I'll talk about this a little later. So in studying people who get involved in terrorism and terrorist groups, there's a couple of things I learned along the way. If you ask somebody why they did it, they will give you an answer straight out of their indoctrination process. Okay, so you really can't know, and I saw this a lot in the US government when they were interviewing detainees. And we got to the point where we were giving the people doing the debriefings with these detainees at Big Hitmo, ask them a different way, and you're gonna get a lot more information out of them to really understand why these guys joined the first place. So that's the one thing, and I really do believe in field research, interviewing, storytelling, like some of you have already brought up, that it's really, really important to be able to really know why they did it. So you really have to, again, say, well, what was going on in your life before you joined this organization, you usually tend to find out some very interesting things about why they joined. So I don't think there's any one single factor to why people do this, or women, men, joint terrorist groups, but again, you gotta think of a story in the overall context in which they live. So there's not gonna be a single motivation described across groups. You're gonna see probably different motivations coalescing around certain groups because of the situation that they're in, the context, the role of women, how they're viewed, how they act. So I always bring it down to this, political, economic, social, political. Oh, sorry, I said political, personal. And you will find mixes of that, varieties, reasons for why people are doing what they're doing. You have to look at people as individuals, right? And to understand that people do it for a variety of reasons, and the most I've ever seen in studies of men, and I'm sure this is true of women as well, is that there's a lot of personal reasons why people do things like this. So I wanted to talk a bit because we talked a little bit about Boko Haram earlier, and rape, and the role of rape in women and why a lot of these women could actually join these groups. So they're raped by members of their community or enemy forces. Either way, women are shamed. And when they're shamed, recruiters come, find the vulnerability and say, you know, the only way you can really get out of this shame is to murder yourself. And this is how they actually recruit suicide bombers, right? And it's sad, and the worst part about it is it's other women recruiting these women and convincing them of this. So it's not just a male issue. There's a lot of female leadership in this way in groups. So again, relatedly, of course, is, you know, women are forced to do it. And there is forced conscription in many, many accounts across groups, but it's not always the reason, right? And so women are kidnapped. You know, they're forced to enter rape as we've all discussed, you know, torture of being sold off as wives, held for ransom, which ISIS and Boko Haram really, you know, that's become their valley work. And they're forced to act on behalf of the group sometimes, right? So they're forced members of the group. And in one account, a young woman who joined Boko Haram, you know, she was forced to lure soldiers to their death. And so you saw this in the provisional area, although they weren't forced to join the group, that women acted as honeypots, right? Luring soldiers to their deaths. So they do play a variety of different roles with the force, do not. And again, men see this as a tax, right? So their ability to rape women or hold them hostage and keep them as their brides are part of the tax on the group, just in many Islamic groups. So returning to the case of the Chechen theater woman, actually her story was that her husband left her because she was infertile. At 40 years old, she actually married a Chechen, I don't know, I was going to call him a warrior, but an active Chechen member. And so really, she did this out of shame, despair, right? Because you can't bear a shoulder and you're no longer useful to society. You have no other options. It's not that her husband died in the battlefield. And yes, her husband, her second husband may have died, but this is not the reason why she went into it in the first place. So it's those kind of missteps for trails that we really need to get behind and understand. Other lost family members in the conflict, as you all know, it's the same for women as it is for men. I want to give you an example of Colleen LaRose. I think you all probably know her by Jihad Jane. And this is really just a west of an example of where you throw up your hands and you're like, yeah, I really didn't consider that motivation, but. So she was like a petty criminal. She attempted suicide when her father died. She had like boyfriends and husbands and it was just a weird, weird background, kind of like her mental state. So she went on to these Jihadi forums and she created this alternative persona, like an avatar, you know? Here's, I'm a Jihadi avatar. And it also appeared like she was looking for a husband when she was on these forums. So those are the kind of stories that stick out in your mind, you know, that probably aren't gonna fit into the stereotype of women. And there's also those dubbed as like fan girls and this is in the west as well. They troll the forums. They think it's really cool that these guys are doing these kinds of things. They're attracted to the violence. But they're not truly pious. And a lot of them get called out publicly by men on these forums because the women post actual pictures on Facebook and so forth about, you know, without being bailed or, you know, scannily clad and all these other things. So I think you also have to understand that motivation is a push and I'd argue this forever. It's a push to get somebody in the group but it's not the only thing that exists. There's gotta be a pull. And the pull is propaganda. It's, you know, the atmosphere that you're living in, what people are telling you, you know, how they're recruiting you, you know, the words they use, you know, this is all part of the process as well. And I think, you know, again, you're gonna find that men and women have the same motivations but I guarantee you the stories of women will be far different than men. So I think I'm gonna, you know, close by saying women, peace and security, I think this is one of the largest topics and we don't focus on these women, you know, and again, we don't wanna think about women as perpetrators but we need to understand why they do it and have their side of the story as well because you can't address issues in countries without knowing what people do with it. So that's it, thank you for the introduction. It's a pleasure to be with you here this morning and I first like to thank Naval War College and Mary Rown for the opportunity. In April 2016, after four-year struggle, US Special Forces Sergeant First Class Charles Martlin would finally win his fight to remain in the Army. Following an incident in Afghanistan in which he and Captain Dan Quinn, also US Special Forces assaulted an American-backed militia commander for chaining a boy to his bed as a sex slave. According to the New York Times, the Army contends that Martlin and others should have looked the other way. A contention that I believe is nonsense stated Representative Duncan Hunter, a California Republican who worked to save Sergeant Martlin's career. While the conduct of soldiers who engage in such behavior as Martlin and Quinn should not be excused, it does appear that soldiers lack a coherent policy, a set of rules for rational decision-making on the handling of incidents of sexual and gender-based violence as a part of the military's overall strategy for providing security. In amplifying the women's peace and security agenda during the next decade, I argued that it's important to focus on this pillar of prevention and ensuring that women, girls, men, and boys do not suffer from needless sexual violence. Although global understanding of sexual violence and conflict is shifting, there remains the need to tackle the root causes of such violations that lie in fundamental inequality and discrimination against women, according to Deputy Secretary General Amina Mohamed. And what is sexual and gender-based violence? Sexual and gender-based violence or what I'll refer to sexual violence in my presentation consists of several acts that have already been mentioned, violent acts of sexual nature, including rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, mutilation and decent assault, trafficking, inappropriate medical examinations and strip searches. And although sexual violence frequently occurs in armed conflict, especially in fragile states, it is not inevitable and it can be prevented. Since military personnel are charged with the responsibility to protect and may be the first to encounter victims or potentially threaten situations, it is important to train them to appropriately handle such incidents long before they deploy to conflict zones. It is impossible to maintain a secure environment and protect vulnerable populations if sexual violence is a widespread problem. In my paper, I focused on the training of military forces for the prevention of sexual violence. I argued that the armed forces already has several programs and mechanisms that coupled with a gender perspective, a systematic way of examining gender-powering balances could be effective in helping soldiers develop the appropriate strategies for improved operational effectiveness. In discussing military strategies for the prevention of sexual violence, I examined three different levels of intervention where actions can take place. The first is primary prevention. Activities that take place before sexual violence has occurred to prevent initial perpetration or victimization. The second level is secondary prevention where centers on immediate responses after sexual violence has occurred to deal with the short-term consequences of the violence. And the third is tertiary prevention, which involves those long-term responses after sexual violence has occurred to deal with the lasting consequences of violence such as prevention and treatment programs. Primary prevention. These activities, as I mentioned, normally take place before sexual violence. The best way for military forces to prepare to prevent sexual violence in this phase are in two stages, basically, pre-deployment training and later, during-deployment operations that are targeted against sexual violence. During pre-deployment training, a good place for commanders to establish their priorities concerning a gender perspective in sexual violence prevention is the commander's annual and quarterly training guidance. Training guidance allows the commander to determine his or her units, training requirements, and set priorities in the development of a training strategy which emphasizes the importance of eliminating sexual violence and its significance to the mission. Training should be tailored to local and cultural circumstances and address both the standards of conduct, expected of soldiers, and how to respond to sexual violence incidents that occur. This can include things like medical treatment for victims, detention of perpetrators. Soldiers can benefit from scenario training. Scenario training exposes them to situations they might encounter on the ground as well as possible solutions to handle them before they even occur. It allows soldiers to think through these problems. During deployments, military operations can be specifically tailored to prevent sexual violence. Since women and girls are disproportionately targeted, they're vulnerable as they perform some daily activities such as gathering firewood and water, shopping at the market, taking their children to school. Some indicators of pending sexual violence might be even the absence of women on the streets and children. Evidence of exchanging food for sex and domestic violence. It's also important to pay attention to the activities of men and boys. Are the men going to work, for example, or are they just hanging out in the street corners? Men and boys can also be subject to sexual violence. Military forces should be prepared to intervene and stop acts of sexual violence when they encounter them, and depending upon policy, detain perpetrators. So that's primary prevention. In secondary prevention at this level, this should include efforts to address perpetrators and also to assist victims. This is an immediate response. During ISAF, there are several initiatives that can be adopted in this level of secondary prevention. For example, in the detention of perpetrators in ISAFs, there are holding facilities slash detention facilities that were adapted to detain individuals in accordance with ISAF standing operation procedures 362. Detentions were both planned during a specific operation and unplanned just during the course of normal duties by controlling. Detainees face questioning by specially trained individuals with issues of immiscibility and procedure for possible future prosecution that were raised and cleared by the legal advisors or the legads of headquarters. Rules of engagement or RRE allow for the detention of individuals under following circumstances, ISAF force protection, self-defense of ISAF personnel and accomplishing of the mission. The RRE appears to be broad enough to extend to the detention of sexual violence perpetrators in other situations. Actions taken to assist victims of sexual violence could be similar to the Afghanistan's Family Response Unit or FRU. Mostly female police officers support victims of domestic violence, sexual abuse, child marriage and other issues. Resolute support has constructed 41 RFUs and 93 women's participation program facilities across Afghanistan. And during incidents of sexual violence, FRUs can provide essential services where victims normally receive the treatment that they need immediately following an incident. And third level, the third level is tertiary prevention. These are long-term responses, as I mentioned, that deal with the lasting consequences of violence and involve prevention and treatment. It was seen that the military would have no role in this level of prevention since it seems to be more of a social welfare nature. But there are a couple of programs, several programs, but I'm just going to mention two of them that could be instrumental in preventing sexual violence at this level. One of them is the Defense Institute of International Legal Studies, or DEALS, located here in Newport. It's the lead defense security corporation organization for professional legal education and international engagement on human rights, international human law, humanitarian law, and the law of armed conflict training. And it aims to strengthen the legal capacities of other nations. DEALS can be very instrumental in offering training, usually through mobile training teams and MTTs that go directly to that country. When I was chief of the office of security corporation in Slovak Republic, I actually had DEALS bring a team there to train my Slovak soldiers. So one example in December 2016 of DEALS and what they can do in order to affect long-term prevention is that they offered a course called the Military Justice Course, which is a three-week course which provides a comprehensive overview of the U.S. military justice system and it compares other justice systems to that. For example, they had an investigation, a specialist come from the U.N. office of internal oversight to actually talk about and give a lecture on peacekeeping to peacekeeping troops of different troop contributing countries who attended this for 21 countries. And they talked about how you gather evidence in cases of sexual misconduct doing remote missions. They had a mock trial there and they actually prosecuted sexual assault and these 24 participants from 21 different countries prepared charges, they questioned witnesses and they presented arguments. Another program which I also used when I was in, when I was the chief of security corporation in Slovak Republic was the state partnership program. This is a very unique program in conjunction with the National Guard and the National Guard has different units there and they partner with different countries. For example, when I was in the Slovak Republic, we partnered with Indiana and the Indiana National Guard was sent soldiers to train Slovak guards. Now through these different partnerships, the state partnership program or SPP can improve the capabilities of partner nations to prevent sexual violence and also enhance the cultural awareness and skills of US military personnel. So this unique civilian military nature in the National Guard offers a wide variety of opportunities. They can not only pair military with military but they can compare their department agriculture for example, our department agriculture or department justice to have joint programs to help support whatever initiative we're doing. So the combat and command commands often have these partnerships. For example, I'm into Slovakia and the European command with Indiana in South Africa, they partnered with New York which is under AFRICOM, Africa Command in Thailand. They partnered with the state of Washington which is under Pacific Command or PAYCOM and Jordan with Colorado which is under Central Command or CINCOM and Chile with Texas under South Com or a Southern Command. So in spite of all the best training and cooperation among security forces there's still several challenges ending this two of them to the prevention of sexual violence. One of them is sexual exploitation within the military itself. Those very protectors task of going out to protect others from sexual violence. They have violations not only within the military soldier on soldier but also soldiers who go out and instead of protecting actually violate others in the area that they're supposed to protect. So what a commander can do is commanders must establish clear policies, reporting channels and have thorough investigations to make sure that where there are allegations and violations, district punishment for offenders. A second one, a challenge to the prevention of sexual violence is host country cultural norms which in themselves may discriminate against women and actually condone this sexual violence. As a result, victims may be discouraged from reporting. To mitigate this type of negative impact military forces should immediately start to interact with local military and law enforcement forces so that they can try to have joint patrols and other initiatives so they can prevent some of this from happening. In conclusion, the prevention of sexual violence is outlining UN Security Council Resolution 1325 and the Women's Peace and Security Agenda in general is an important aspect of the conflict. Since military forces are often the first to encounter victims, especially in an environment where the host nation forces may be unavailable or incapable of providing such protection, it's important that soldiers, our soldiers be equipped with the tools necessary to prevent and protect vulnerable populations in the coming days. My question would be more of a comment to Professor Masters. During research on Russia's women's peace and security, I looked into those Chechens, Black leaders, and Japanese, and people, and please debunk my understanding, if I'm wrong, that from Russian news, and I looked more into the Russian sources, the Russian language sources, that they were Black leaders because they wore their traditional black attire. And they were widows, because especially from the first Chechens war, they lost husbands, brothers, like fathers, and so they kind of brought themselves together that in desperation, like motivated by pure revenge, you took our family, we are taking your lives. So that was my understanding from what I really discovered. So that was kind of like their sisterhood in that grabbing for revenge for what Russian army did to them. And because of desperation, they were depending on their husbands, brothers, or fathers. So when they had nothing. And later, like there was a progression when it was the bombing in Moscow together, and then in some way, like recent in some way, Moscow some way, and then in Volgograd especially, like the most bombing, that those girls who committed that, they were runaways. And that was portrayed in Russian sources. They were runaways, they were desperate again, and they were kind of booed into this group, that again, jihad on Russia. And they were really taking care of, and they were pretty much drug put on the bus, sent away, and the remote detonation brought the destruction. So that was my understanding of the whole situation on that aspect. Have you seen something different, or have you seen anything like that in English news or? So I totally know what you were talking about. But it goes back to my point about ascribing motivation to a group of people that they all do for the same reasons. And that's why I picked up that particular example about the woman who basically had no hope because she couldn't have children. We have to go back to the reasons. And so those women may have been drug put. How did they get involved in the first place would be my question. It may not always be about revenge. And you have to be very careful about how the media portrays women and why they do it. And of course the Russian press has a vested interest in portraying them one way over another. So I mean, that would be my response to that. That's my understanding from what they were saying and also like interviews and everything. That's what desperation and revenge, like we need to do something, we are it. And we don't have anything. So it might as well sacrifice our life to honor the death of all our husbands and brothers and sisters. And again, the other point I made was you can never ask somebody exactly why they did it because again, you're gonna get the propaganda back because that's what they've been told us that they understand, that's how they justify doing something. It's like asking somebody who joins ISIS. Well, obviously you did it for your religion. And that's just not the case a lot of times. People join groups for all sorts of reasons. So I think you may be spot on with some people but I wouldn't have described it to everyone. What state of the room to be in? My question is for Melina. So I have to admit this in the operation I have never heard of sexual terrorism before. So while I was sitting here, we're seeing to your definition and you speak, conflict-related sexual gender-based violence came to mind. So because that's also about power and dominance over a population or a group or a specific individuals through sexual violence. So I'm interested at what view would define as the distinction between conflict-related sexual gender-based violence and sexual terrorism? Is it just the fact that it's conflict-related sexual gender-based violence by any side terrorist groups? So that's a very good question. And I don't know quite the answer to that other than sexual terrorism is described as a tactic of war in times of conflict to be used against women specifically. But also young boys and men are also included in that group. It's just that women are more likely to be victims of sexual terrorism. And because women are more likely to be victims of this, sexual terrorism is, it's becoming more of a problem amongst terrorist groups because they're using it more frequently. So I would say that gender-based violence in times of conflict could include just violence in general, whereas sexual terrorism is usually acts of sex-based violence. Is that what you just described to me? Is what the resolution on conflict-related sexual gender-based violence defines that as? So the difference to me in what you've just said is it's used by terrorist groups as a weapon. So... Okay, then I would agree with that. That sexual terrorism is generally used by terrorist groups, but the definition also uses, it also says in our complex, so I think that they're interwoven. It's just that terrorist groups use sexual terrorism more frequently than other groups. In this time. In this, in this, in modern times, yes. Very. Yes. Very. Very. No, 2000. And I want to thank you for, I like the five perspectives that's going to be useful in our curriculum. Elena, and then Carolyn, I have a question and comment for both of you. I would like you, Carolyn, and then I'm going to ask Elena something too. How would you rate what's going on in the military today? You've just fundamentally given us kind of the outline of what's going on. You just, you recently left the service, and I'm curious as to how you would rate what's going on in terms of this area that you described. And Elena, I'm curious with you, this is one of the most phenomenal people in this area sitting in this room in front of you. You have no idea of the work she's done. So I'm curious, I was doing a talk recently and I talked about the FARC and the reintegration of the females that we're working with the FARC. So I'm curious from you as to what are your comments on reintegration? Is that a good program or is that just a farce? So, does that work? Okay, so in the context of what our most experienced in the government, and this had to do with males, not females, but up on in that second, it's always like, it's a country club or they follow these guys around for the rest of their lives, like in the Singapore program, right? So I don't really understand the whole prop, people talk about de-radicalization, where I think it's really interesting with women, and I guess I'm gonna get on my soapbox here, it's a meeting programs with women talking to these women and getting them out and reintegrating them, like you said, society once the conference has ended. So I think that's the role that women can play. Thank you for your questions. So you asked me how would I rate what's going on now with the military. As I mentioned before, all of the different mechanisms and strategies that I mentioned, these are currently in place in their operations, whether it's to training guidance, whether they're doing other kind of training. What I think is probably lacking is more of a focus on what to do in terms of the prevention of sexual violence, how to tie in what's already going on, the training of different patrolling and sort of things, how to make that more of a focus on sexual violence and while they're doing their other tasks too. I would be very surprised too if there's actually a gender perspective that's being incorporated into all of this training or these operations. And I think that's something that might be lacking also and that needs to be worked on, not just at the strategic levels at the co-cons, but it needs to filter down to the privates and those people who are actually having boots on the grounds who are going about doing the patrolling. So the mechanisms up there, as I mentioned, the different strategies, the military has excellent programs and excellent strategies for going about the daily operations, but it needs to be more fighting to make sure that there's a sexual violence focus, not only externally, but internally, too, to make sure there are no problems and to make sure there's an incorporation of a gender perspective, looking at power and balances, looking at the needs of both men and women girls and boys to ensure that we have more effective operations. I thought you were my friend. I wonder if you have an all-right issue, you published it here on your presentation. I thought it was terrific. Thank you. But I want to go back to how you opened your talk, what the story, and why was that the story? Why did a senator have to intervene if the training exists and if the soldiers had done the right thing? I mean, I remain very confused about what training is received. And I am further confused when I talk to senior officers who say, oh, we have to be careful because there's culture involved here. And I'm thinking, no, this is a human rights issue. This is not a cultural issue. But if there is, you know, I mean, anecdotally, I keep coming up against this and I'm very curious, why was this a story in the New York Times if they're receiving the training and if they're supposed to know what to do and then how do you get people to understand that this is not a cultural norm. This is a human rights issue to which they need to respond. Okay, and what the paper further stated is that they had a spokesman from the Army who said that normally we don't involve ourselves in these type of situations. We allow the nation to handle it like you said, cultural issues. And then it's the only time we would get involved if it's a rape as a weapon of war. I think basically in training soldiers, soldiers will do what they're trained to do. So that's why you can't leave it to chance and you have to train them. Sexual violence is going to occur. So apparently there was not a policy that was clearly understood by these soldiers. And so I think that's part of the problem and that requires additional training emphasis by commanders. So you're absolutely right. Cultural issues shouldn't be a reason for it. Shouldn't be excused for it. And so there needs to be very clear to soldiers what their parameters are, what they can and what they cannot do. And so that needs to be part of the training. It needs to be reinforced too. And like I said, it needs to be reinforced not only as they prepare for deployments, but it needs to become part of their modus operandi so that when they get into these situations they know how to handle them. So in terms of primary prevention that you spoke about, if you're talking about expanding the training and making that part of the operational norms for soldiers on the ground, what do you think that this big DOD should do to expand our left and right limits in terms of if we have a policy of not intervening in cultural practices, then what are we going to do? How is that soldier supposed to know what his left and right limits are if the DOD has not defined it's when we do not intervene in the cultural practices or not? It has to be defined. It has to be defined and we have to do it just like we do anything else. Whether we're trying to get people used to the idea of will we eliminate, don't ask, don't tell or whatever we do when we go on this big campaign to do it. So it has to be done from the top to the bottom so that your privates with boots in the ground understand what is expected of them. Can I just intervene because I don't believe that the sexual assault of children is a cultural practice. Am I wrong? Yeah, it is. Well, isn't it attempted by... That's what they're taught, that's the thing. Soldiers are being told that's their culture. And so they are forced to accept it and that the one instance when the first group is not the only one, you can search it on the internet and you find dozens of instances of soldiers that are crying out on social media. What do we do? Like the chain of command is telling me I got to deal with it. And the thing is if the soldiers are being told you have to deal with it because their commanders are not being taught that there is a process and there is a reporting mechanism. But now there is and I just want to clarify. Because of all the instances, Resolute Support does have specific requirements and everybody going into the theater has to have training on this. And so there will no longer be these instances like there were in the past. Because it wasn't training. We've admitted all along that we've got a lack of training in this overall problem, particularly in this area. But now the Resolute Support, because of what happened, they've resurrected, they've rectified that now. In fact, we now have this reporting mechanism. Before there was no reporting mechanism, we saw it. I reported I'm cheating the man for something to do something. And now Resolute Support supports our name. I'm sorry, I have to comment. It really comes down to enforceability, right? And so we can report all we want. But you're in a different country under different cultural norms or these practices. And so how do you actually enforce? So I think that the leadership comes in and dealing with the countries that you're in to force the issue back down the chain between on the other side, that something happened, what is that country going to do about it and stay on top of it until something is resolved? And that's the only way. Yeah, and I was thinking more like in complex situations, right? Thinking about the Taliban, Afghanistan, Gregor Boris, almost became based on what soldiers were coming back to telling us that it just happened. It's just sort of part of this practice with men. Go ahead. All right, just to comment on that. In the early days of the gender training at Sweden, the Swedish International Children's Center, I was a guest instructor and I was asked to speak about human trafficking and what are the laws. And that group is not just American, so there was actually, there was a group of 40, it was quite international. And I had two hours to explain to them what human trafficking laws were, what, how do you recognize it, what you do about it. And this issue of the dancing boys, the Bacha Bazi, came up in Afghanistan because the experience of the officers who some of them were going to play, there's a list and when we're training our police or the Afghan police forces or military, we get invited to these cultural events and we don't want to offend them. But when we go there and then we see this happening with boys and so what do we do? It's a cultural practice and I as a trainer said, that's not a cultural practice, that's human rights violation. Let's go over the legal agenda. Again, this is what international human trafficking laws are. This is what American human trafficking laws are. This is what you are responsible for. And I give them, there was only 40 officers in there and I had two hours but I would just say the training that I did, which was one other thing and not integrated into the system that you're talking about, it was putting them through scenarios and having them actually going through the motions, identifying, giving them actual scenarios that they had to respond to in that moment and talk about. And that was the best way that I could think of to get them to understand the difference between culture and human rights and I think it's also fundamental to the human security agenda is also, the whole agenda of gender equality is looking at women's rights as human rights but women's rights can come up and you start talking about sexual violence, it affects pretty much everyone in society and gets to know part of the most egregious oppression of sexual violence. So I would just recommend in the training that it's very clear that it's not just domestic or national law but these are international agreements and obligations and that these people can be held accountable beyond the time when they're in that conflict, beyond the time when they're in ISAP and they happen to go to a party which they thought was a cultural event and really impress upon them the gravity of the situation and their responsibility. That is the only way that I've seen it work but I think it goes back to the conversation we've been having until time of understanding gender equality as applied to security situation and making clear what is human rights and how cultural practices actually can be changed. That's what gender is, right? It's changed over time and in different places. It's not set in stone. Well, I think that works. I'm not the time police right now. I actually had a conversation. Oh! And then we have a few more minutes to keep talking. Oh great, what a great conversation. We did really is. We've hit a complete civilian military divide and there's so many civilians and humanitarian minded people in the room that you may not realize that because to the military people in the room we're not the international human rights police. The soldiers on the ground in Afghanistan because I'm gonna give a brief explanation of our leadership and why did these soldiers get in trouble because everyone said this is a no-brainer that they should have intervened. But our job is not the human rights police. It is not that clear to a soldier on the ground until the rules are identified and policies are put out and pre-employment training and everything else. That's not our job. You're an army soldier and your job is to do whatever your task is. It's to fight a terrorist or find the poppy fields or whatever you're doing on the ground in Afghanistan. See this, thank you military for people who are nodding at me because obviously it's so, we see it so clearly as why it wasn't our job to do that. So it's not something you have to explain to military officers. We understand that there's a friction there but we can also see like really good you guys have identified. It's so obvious that it is the right thing to do which makes it such a big issue why Congress had to get involved defending them because probably if he hadn't, we had this discussion with my students in classes in a great case study. If Congress had not identified and called this out there's a very good chance that soldier would have gotten dismissed but the dishonorable just charged. So why did Congress have to say this because we had to have a discussion? Thank you. Mr. Prescott. Here. Mr. Prescott, who's it going to? Carolyn, thank you for your excellent presentation and I'll store your friend. Oh. So as I'm going to bet as a result of our shared ground component experience I wouldn't presume to speak for other ground component people but I'm going to guess you're backing up. We know that situational training exercises well crafted, well scripted with well trained role players that will stay on script and not go for the Oscar can be very effective ways to train soldiers and trying to figure out how to do things. You brought up the possibility of using STX as situational training exercises as one of the suite of tools to accomplish the goal that we're trying to achieve. How have you had the chance to begin working through how we begin to replicate sex and gender-based violence in the course of situational training exercise with soldiers through? It raises ethical, leadership, legal questions that are very difficult to sort through and I have to admit I have thought about it and I have shied away from it because I am not certain what effective training in that regard would look like. It would take a lot of work to put it together but yet I think it could be very valuable. Have you had a chance to begin working through that? No, but not lately but first half of my career I was a military police officer. So we had these types of incidences that we would encounter a lot. We didn't actually replicate some scenario with a rape victim but we talked about different steps to get through who we need to coordinate with, what our guys need to do immediately. So and that was a little different because of the state side but I haven't really thought through other than say, hey, you encounter someone or this person's a victim and she tells you that she's been assaulted, that what do you do? Step one, two, three, four, five, that sort of thing. Who do you hand it off to when you get to the point that you know that this extends your capabilities to handle it, that sort of thing. I attended, of course, with the Dutch military, gender and operations where they did have scenarios like that and they were mostly on paper. They talked about, hey, you found this woman in a bush and she looks like she's been raped and she says those two tall guys who were walking down there, soldiers did it. What actions did you take and they had like choose ABCDNF, that sort of thing. And so with soldiers maybe, and it wasn't always black and white so when they didn't choose current dancers then maybe they went back and they retrained and they did some lessons to learn or really lessons identified there learned until you go back and practice it. So that sort of thing. So a little bit in the military police corps and then some in that course. So I imagine that you would have to create some scenarios similar to that. Just a quick follow up to that. I have a column along with P.K.O.S. and it's been that very thing. There's a document that was published. We were just gonna say it. Okay, about three years ago and it's a straight scenario. It's scenario-based training. So then you have to walk through exactly the parallels. You can tell you how to train the trainers. I want to give someone a chance because I've asked a question. And actually they mentioned that and I did reference that in my paper because I had that three years ago when my friend Randy White was there at P.K.O.S.O.I. So that was a great effort by AcreCom to do that. Can you tell them what P.K.O.S.O.I. because I've been instructed last night that we used too many S.O.I.s. We'll get to tell them when you weren't there. Peacekeeping, stability, operations, it's part of the United States Army workforce. Well my goodness, we have so much to discuss here. I think I'll take one more question from someone who hasn't asked a question or made a comment. And then we'll open it for discussion over the break and lunchtime. And they're at beyond, so go ahead. Okay, so under the assumption that you may not be able to get it to go top down in incorporating a comment from yesterday saying soldiers have X amount of training that they already have to do. They don't have enough time to do it. How do you add in this extra training regarding this? Maybe Task Force Energy Training has been working on an app that's already accessible so that sailors that are on the ships can do more training and it's interactive and it may be retainable more so than paper. Have you guys thought about maybe trying to do some kind of app like they're doing so that you can reach a larger audience if it's not mandated that everyone has to take it? I'm not currently in the military so I don't know what military organizations are doing. But when you talk about not having time for training, I don't think you could, before it not to do this kind of training because your soldiers are going to, it's going to impact their operations so you have to do that in order so they can be effective in doing what they need to do. I don't think it needs to be integrated. It doesn't mean to be a separate sort of thing but it has to be integrated into their training and their briefings and everything. You can't not do it. I agree but unfortunately the comments are made that hey we invite the soldiers and saying hey we can only take acts the amount of training and so you're gonna continue to have problems like this. No I agree but that's where the push does need to be to make it a force to mandate an immigrant because right now it's whether or not the command decides in training of this type. They can decide whether or not the soldiers take it if they deem that they don't have enough time to take all of their core requirements now. I'm expanded permission for two more and so I'll take you because you've had your hands up almost the whole time and then you. And then all of those who already made comments can make more during the break. Thank you. My question is for Winona. It actually is a piggyback to make this question. I too have never heard the term sexual violence and I'm actually working on a strategy right now women and girls and counterbalance extremism and we've never used that term. So I just wanted to know thank you for the background of where you got it from and then to just kind of flag some of the stigma that is associated because you did bring up Nigeria and Boko Haram. Actually the girls who are victims of child early forced marriage or sexual violence are actually being more stigmatized as being associated with Boko Haram or other terrorist organizations within the region because of their actual rape and sexual assault. And so they are being deemed terrorists when they return back to their community. So just wanted you to think about kind of the terrorism associated with sexual violence because we don't want victims of survivors of sexual violence actually associated with the perpetrator especially when they did not. And then to the Boko Haram set this deadly terrorist organization. Where did you get that? Where were you getting that from? I found that information off of IMSD International and a couple of other sort of sites that stated all the different statistics. And when you compare it with ISIS and other terrorist groups, Boko Haram is by far the deadliest in terms of casualties per civilian casualties. In terms of conflict, ISIS wins for Boko Haram. However, Boko Haram has killed more civilians than ISIS in the last few years in any other terrorist group. So by the standards of IMSD International and some other groups, they are the deadliest terrorist group in existence today. So, but the problem is that we only associate them with kidnappings and holding girls for hostages, for ransom. No, I don't think we only associate, I mean at least we associate. That's a lot of the journalistic rhetoric behind them. Which I don't think a lot of people in here consider them, that's their only thing. But a lot of articles published about them are only about the kidnappings and holding ransoms rather than the displacement of 2.6 million people and the killing of 20,000 civilians. I think there's a plethora of of extremist organizations that are doing that, if not more than Boko Haram. So I just wanted to know if you got some of that facts from the IMSD and others, of course, you know, the rights of the musicians, where it's not the literature on that, but I don't think it reflects the totality of damages on my extremist organizations. In my paper, I cite a lot of the different. If you, I just don't have it in front of me right now. So if you want to look at that, we can talk about it later. Last but not least. Yeah, this is a related comment or question. You know, Winona. I mean conflict really is sexual violence and sexual violence in conflict. I mean it's been widely researched and written about and it includes terrorist entities or networks as perpetrators as well as state armed groups in 1325. Very much acknowledges the nexus between sexual violence and terrorism. So I'd say it's not, I think this is really a language difference and I don't think it's that sexual terrorism is it being talked about. I think this is just a terminology difference. Even if it is just gender-based violence in conflict, it's still not there. Well, not just gender-based. Okay. In terms of sexual violence in terms of conflict, I still don't think it's being talked about enough, especially in Africa. And I didn't just make up the term sexual terrorism. I got that from several resolutions and things like that. It's not that I made that up and that I don't think that gender violence in conflict is not a problem. I just think that terrorist groups in general are using it more frequently and in even greater numbers that they work beforehand. And I think that's the problem that's not being talked about enough in general is just especially in terrorist groups that we're not talking about forced marriage and sexual slavery. And these women who are being taken by these groups and who are being forced to marry these people and being used as sexual slaves, that's the part I don't think it's being talked about enough, especially in Africa. Okay, so I'm not very good at being a referee here. So I'm gonna get one more. I'm worried what we do with our time, but I'm good with 10 of them. I, in response to Sarah's comment, I think there is a way to do, and I think the training is valuable that you were talking about. I think there's a way to do it without instituting another training that brings all of the community together. And I think the way to do that is leadership. So I think what people are looking for more than another session where they get told what human, I think it would be incredibly valuable if we could all learn what human trafficking is and the actual laws that define it. But I think having a command and having leaders that actually enforce those standards when push comes to shove and you have to have unfortunate consequences, like when are you actually going to take a country to task for committing violations of human trafficking? Because that's what we're seeing in terms of like our platoon would be, like I'm a platoon of eight guys and if we were on the ground and we saw something like that, the number one thing that would keep my guys from telling me or from reporting it to me or reporting it up is if nothing is going to happen, besides all of my guys getting in trouble for noticing something and seeing something, they're not going to say something. There's a way to do leadership, to teach this and train this without instituting a training program and it's just a leadership that holds it accountable. And that makes that, makes an action, a decisive action when there is a consequence. So I just want to say one thing. The reason why we did the training on this is because it goes back directly back to 1325. 1325, the resolution was part of the ISAP command date, so it became part of the commander's intent. And because of that, we had to train, and that's where the commander's is huge, but it's one of the commanders to do with it. And that's what it was connected to, is to show that's what you're saying. It's connected back. That's it. Now it's coming out. So military leadership perspective now? Thank you. Just in Belgium, just for a moment. So we're at the Naval War College, and there are service colleges that'll like us for each of our armed forces as well as others. And I happen to be a leader in the leadership concepts course at the war college. And the context of what we're talking about regarding the nature of our responsibilities going into a country that has not ours, we talk about that. And what we talk about, we don't do just in time training here. We do an educational deep dive into an individual who is serving their country in uniform or a mid-grade civilian who is working in the US government. And we actually talk about and reflect upon and think about the nature of where they're going next and give the scenario-based discussion in relationship to what they would do in the environments in which we talk about in a small 15 person seminar. And so I think it's different to have just in time training going into an environment in which you may be a part of a larger force. But in our educational environment here, we actually have time over 13 weeks to think about, reflect upon, maybe write about the kind of challenges our young men and women have who serve the country in uniform. And so I want to be clear that we take this responsibility seriously in the context of ethical behavior, moral behavior, following rules and guidelines imposed by our government, as well as their own moral compass. And I think by coming to a law college like this or others, these young men and women come out understanding where they fit in the bigger picture. And we hope, based on what they've done here, make decisions that are good for them, good for the country and good for the environment in which they are serving. And I'd be happy to share our syllabus with you that talks specifically about the things you've just discussed. Thank you so much, Al. Thank you. I'll just say something real quick. So if you don't know, I'm a psychiatrist and I deal mostly with PTSD. And speaking of the moral compass, is that many of our patients, the basis to developing the PTSD is when they have a moral injury. So I think that the training is important at so many different levels. And helping these people figure out what can I morally do for their health even. And so I think it encompasses so much that you can sit here all day and talk about it. But I just wanted to put that piece in, is that it's not only for the countries, et cetera. It's actually for our troops and their health, keeping them healthy. Thank you, Susie. Thank you for a great discussion.