 Hello and welcome to Daily Debrief brought to you by People's Dispatch. I'm Pragya. Argentina has won the World Cup and Lionel Messi has not retired from international football. Second story, Israel's deportation of Salah Amori, the French-Palestinian human rights defender, has invited widespread anger towards Israel's forced transfer policy for the occupied territories. A warning from the United Nations envoy in Libya to put aside political differences. Elections in Libya were put off last December and the stalemate has only grown stronger since then. The FIFA World Cup is over with Argentina's victory and Lionel Messi declared the king of the game and not ready to retire. It was an unusual World Cup, much of it because it was held in Qatar. Siddhanta Neh, who was in Qatar, joins us in the studio to discuss the legacy of this game. Great Siddhan, so you're back from Qatar, pretty hectic one month. Tell us about it. What was the mood like as you were leaving? Wow, that's it. I was prepared for like, was this the final of all finals kind of question. But the mood when we were leaving actually, that's put us in a completely different zone because I suppose from a wider football perspective, just the sport, something happened last night that was a bit special. It's not in the ordinary that two superstars absolute like at the top level of their profession, their endeavor and also functioning at peak performance levels in their own ways fire all their cylinders at the same time. So in that sense it was rare and overall this World Cup threw up many rarities. It was the first time an African team made it to the semifinal. We had conversations through the tournament about a range of political issues that otherwise at tournaments like these are completely ignored. Because the same journalists who are covering it there suddenly are not so interested in what's going on outside the bubble which is very comfortable and very well created. It allows four journalists to enter into it and then remain within it quite comfortably filing your stories, writing your reports about the matches and what's happening on the pitch and maybe some other conversations you're having around it but all centered on the World Cup. Nothing to do with the place you're in. The people that actually live and inhabit that space, what are the challenges that they might face, how do these events impact them if at all. Those are some of the reasons I would imagine that the world's press goes to these events not just to watch the games which was great in itself and super well organized and all of that. So it kind of throws you off because you're spending the first couple of weeks of the tournament watching two games a day which means you're pretty much on the road from let's say nine in the morning or eight in the morning to about midnight or after that. So then there's very little scope to think about how do people actually live in this space which was otherwise a desert and certainly now has all these buildings and stadiums and education city and museums and libraries and all of this. So who is inhabiting it and what are all of it. So in that sense I guess the legacy of the World Cup and the mood in general for people who you leave behind who live there is also a bit iffy. They are not sure what will happen. Some people like the regular Uber drivers for example they are happy because for the duration of the World Cup they introduced a new service which allowed anyone with a private vehicle to put a sticker on their car and run it as a taxi. So those not earning regular incomes or high incomes started doing that many of them from our parts of the world. Indians, Nepalese, Bangladeshis, Pakistanis all riding their private vehicles after hours to make an extra buck. So they will be happy that things will normalize, offices and schools will open so people will regular commuters will start commuting again. It's been a really sort of bubble World Cup because you know the way the countries also governed it allows the state to give holidays when it chooses to and it chose this time and the final was on Qatar's national day which they celebrated and all of that. So yeah, the mood was iffy. What was the legacy in terms of who won, who couldn't win, who couldn't make it to the final and also Lionel Messi sort of overshadows the entire team and we were discussing this earlier today. What happens to him next? I think by the looks of it he carries on and I don't say any reason why the way Messi is playing today he can't do the same at 38 or 39 because in terms of of course it requires performance at a certain level but it's a sport that he understands at a level that is beyond most of us mere mortals and it requires some quite complex computation from time to time because you have to figure out the ball and also the dynamics of where the rest of your team is moving and the other team is moving. So there are a lot of moving parts essentially to figure out. So Messi's legacy now is cemented. He's now as Argentine as an Argentine can be and I think he has been for some time actually. I don't know a lot of the western media maybe because we read also what is written in English that comes from South America or Latin America and so we are taken in by their storylines. This divide between it was the same in the case of Morocco where so many of their players are born outside of the country but are now representing the country. The highest in the tournament amazing you remember that. You got quite into the World Cup. So the same kind of thing should apply whether you're a big footballing nation from a traditional perspective or not. So just because Argentina is a big footballing nation from that perspective doesn't mean it has the richest clubs and so like even Emiliano Martinez the goalkeeper was a bit also off his head as all goalkeepers are was also saying that at the age of 12 you have to take that bus and head over to a place which is completely alien just because that's the only way to perhaps have a career in this profession and he spent a lot of time at Arsenal in London completely alien culture to anywhere in small town Argentina I would imagine and to fit in try and fit in with that and then move on from there try and find another club and he's only grown since then to where he has come to now so I think Messi yes of course he overshadows everything and it was all about him for the last three days five days of the tournament also yeah and and that correlation which I think also people have moved beyond now because Madonna is no longer around and so he's no longer such a physical experience which is what he was at like I remember in Brazil at the World Cup and he would walk into a stadium it didn't matter what was happening on the pitch absolutely everyone turning around taking pictures of that guy so yeah so I think Messi has now transcended that and they figured out what the points of similarity are this new agro and this new feel that Messi is showing displaying all of his emotions whenever they are called upon is a side that's endearing him to a lot of people and I think he's one that border base now now it remains missing what they do with actually what the legacy that they built right what they teach the next generation and how even things like what clubs they choose to sign for how they end their careers all of these things right will be great for us if Messi stays on for another World Cup but does that mean he will then start playing club football at any random organization that pays him a big paycheck and what does that do to your legacy then in in that context yeah all right sadhan thanks for joining us Salah Hammoury a lawyer with Adamir a human rights group that advocates justice for prisoners held in occupied Palestine has been deported from Israel to France he was held in so-called administrative detention in March Hammoury has spent over a decade in Israeli prisons for opposing Israel's illegal occupation Israel's constantly changing residency laws and revocation of so-called permits for Palestinians to live in the occupied territories are once again in focus we go over to Abdul from people's dispatch to discuss this hi Abdul Abdul what is the basis on which he has been deported and what is the situation like in Israel well as per the claims made by the Israeli Interior Ministry Hammoury has been deported primarily because of his disloyalty to the Israeli state and after and his activities which they thought is a kind of terrorism quote unquote terrorist activities he was before he was arrested in March his residency rights were revoked by the Israeli state in October 2021 claiming that on the basis of his quote unquote disloyalty Israel a next has a next east Jerusalem in 1980s and since then it has basically not given any right to the Palestinians living there they are only allowed to reside in the territory they do not have right to vote and so on and so forth but on the contrary the Jewish citizens of Israel have the citizenship rights so there is dual kind of rules for one for Palestinians and one for the Jewish Israeli citizens so his deportation is is basically also based on the overall idea overall understanding in Israel that he has been involved in activities which is prohibited of course all the Palestinians who fight for the liberation of Palestine who fight for the rights for Palestinians are considered to be acting against the Israeli state and that basically that becomes the basis for different kinds of treatment Palestinians go through some of them are arrested some of them are deported and this deportation is basically a part of that larger process as far as the the condition of the Palestine is concerned we know that in last few years though the Palestinians have always been on the receiving end of the Israeli state Israeli state atrocities or colonial occupation tactics the rules what it is increasingly recognized as apartheid regime in the occupied territories in last few years the operation has increased many fold and there are thousands of Palestinians in the Israeli prisons hundreds of them have been killed in this year itself for for basically standing up for their basic rights of self-determination and other human rights thanks Abdul for joining us Libya is in a strange in-between zone it has an internationally backed prime minister and a UN brokered ceasefire since 2020 the ceasefire hinges on holding a presidential and parliamentary election but a year after missing the deadline there is no sign of this election since Muammar Gaddafi was deposed and killed by NATO forces in 2011 conflict and violence has raged in the country we'll go back to Abdul for some of the latest details so Abdul what has delayed the election in Libya see initially last year when the elections were about to conducted there were disagreements over the electoral law the kind of the nature of those disagreements related to the constituencies how do you decide the candidates candidates see and other things apart from the electoral law which was passed by the the Libyan parliament we should understand that the Libya is divided into two different spheres there is a Libyan parliament which is based in Tobruk in eastern part of Libya and there is a even quote-unquote recognize government based in a capital Tripoli and they both have disagreements right so though even let peace negotiations try to reduce those disagreements and on that basis the elections were proposed last year but the the institution which was assigned the job to pass the electoral law was the parliament and whatever law the parliament passed the the the government in Tripoli did not agree with it so those disagreements led to the postponement of the elections in last year apart from that there were also issues related to for example the candidacy of the prime minister the Babas whether he should contest the presidential election or not as per the agreement even led agreement when the interim government was proposed he was not supposed to contest the presidential election but he did nonetheless he became the became one of the candidates which became one of the reasons for the Tobruk we as parliament to object to the entire process since then there were different attempts made to conduct the elections in last one year but it has not materialized primarily because there has been no agreement yet on the electoral law and despite the fact that the UN has intervened and there were talks in Cairo there were talks in other places between both the parts both parts both the governments in Libya but it has not resulted in any kind of agreement okay Abdul can you also give us a context for the situation in Libya and a little bit on the significance of the selection why is it so important to have the selection well as you rightly pointed out the the current situation in Libya emerged after the NATO led intervention invasion whatever you call it in 2011 which basically deposed the long-term ruler Muammar Gaddafi he was killed in a mob violence and since then Libya has seen a kind of war between the loyalists of Gaddafi and those who wanted to establish a new kind of government backed by different foreign forces whether it is UAE there is US other countries have been involved in that war in 2015 there was an UN-led initiative which led to some kind of agreement that also happened on December 24 but that also that agreement did not did not materialize though there was an election a new parliament was elected a government was formed but the parliament and the government had disagreements over various issues and since then the war kind of re-emerged so for a very long time till 2019 there was an active 2020 sorry there was war between different factions in Libya and Libya is divided right now between three different groups influential and three different parts eastern part the largest part is controlled by the forces which used to be loyal to Khalifa Haftar a warlord the western part is controlled by most of it is controlled by the UN backed government and there is a southern part which is controlled by different smaller tribal groups here and there so the UN-led initiative the Libyan political dialogue forum which have finally was able to create a ceasefire in 2020 and in 2021 march new government interim government was established under the that particular agreement which was under the Libyan political dialogue forum with the mandate that there will be election national elections in December which did not happen we talked about it the significance of that election is quite obvious it is considered that this will be this will address the kind of the power vacuum in in Libya it will provide a legitimate government which will have the support of all different factions and all different warring groups in Libya that is the expectation with which the elections were proposed but since there is a disagreement over the nature of the electoral law the and other things that this election is delayed so you know the one quick question I think we have time for you know under the transitional government they're saying that there's a chance actually of the UN envoy has said there's a chance of the country dividing into two could you talk about that in well interesting development happened in march this year after the the Beba government failed the interim government failed to conduct the elections the parliament based in Tobruk claimed that this government has lost its mandate because it was primarily made to organize the elections and since it has failed therefore this government should design and a new government should be established new interim government should be established the the Beba refused to resign and and that that led to the parliament elect passing a no confidence motion against the Beba and electing a new government with Fatihi Basaga as the prime minister since his election by the parliament both the governments there are two prime ministers now in Libya are trying to take control over they try to take control over capital Tripoli and which led to different clashes from time to time leading to that of dozens of people in earlier this year finally Fatih Basaga decided that he will no more try to come to Tripoli and rule from Surat one of the eastern capitals so there are two governments in Libya right now one is ruled by Fatih Basaga in Surat and one is ruled by the Beba based in Tripoli so if the elections do not happen and this continues for longer the UN envoy to Libya has fear that this will consolidate the power basis and this may lead to a formal split in the country all right Abdul thanks a lot for joining us and that's all we have for you today thank you for watching daily debrief do come back to us tomorrow for more such stories visit our website peoplesdispatch.org and you can look up our regular updates on facebook twitter and instagram