 Good afternoon everyone and welcome to the joint meeting of the design review board and cultural heritage board on October 2nd I'd like to call the meeting to order First item of business is a roll call Let the record reflect that for cultural heritage board all board members are present except for chair Edmondson and board member Musor and on design review board all board members are present except for vice chair Hedgepeth and board member Cordenbrock Thank you patty Next item of business is approval of the minutes and I didn't have any attached minutes to my document Do we have any joint minutes to? There are no minutes. There weren't any minutes. Okay. Thank you bill Moving on to board business This is where we identify each board's Purpose for the city so for the design review board The purpose is project review The review authority shall consider the location design site plan configuration and the overall effect of the proposed project upon surrounding properties and in the city in general Review shall be conducted by comparing the proposed project to the general plan in the applicable specific plan applicable zoning code standards and requirements consistency of the project within the city's design review guidelines Architectural criteria for special areas and any other applicable city requirements i.e. city policy statements and development plans the Cultural Heritage Board has its own statement of purpose and I'll hand it over to mark to read that Thank you, I apologize for not being particularly prepared today for the chair I Am looking for the purpose in our Agenda Bill would you care to? Yeah, so board member debacle. I'd be happy it looks like it's not on the agenda But I can read it into the record if you'd like thank you, sir So this is essentially this is the purview of the cultural heritage board the cultural heritage board shall consider the following matters The standards guidelines and criteria to the extent applicable and determining whether to grant or deny a permit Whether the proposed change is consistent or incompatible with the architectural period of the building Whether the proposed change is compatible with any adjacent or nearby landmark structures or preservation district structures Whether the colors textures materials fenestration decorative features and details proposed are consistent with the period and or are Compatible with adjacent structures whether the proposed change destroys or adversely affects an important architectural feature or features The secretary of the interior standards for rehabilitation and guidelines for rehabilitating historic buildings Such other matters criteria and standards as may be adopted by resolution of the cultural heritage board Thank You bill at this time, I would like to welcome the public again and Open the meeting for public comment This would be public comment for items that are not on today's agenda But are relevant either the design review board or the cultural heritage board Any members of the public wishing to speak? Okay, we'll close the public comment Next item is statements of extension by board members any board members need to abstain Seeing none. We will move on to scheduled items. So there has been a change this evening scheduled item number six point one concept design review for a cartus village Has been pulled from the agenda and will be heard at another time So we will move on to item six point two concept design review landmark Alteration for 528 D Street redevelopment at 528 B Street file number LMA 1 9-0 1 6 and Andrew triple with staff will be giving us a presentation as will the applicant Great. Good afternoon chair concave and members of the cultural heritage board and design review board The project to be for you today for joint concept review is redevelopment of the property at 528 B Street concept review by the cultural heritage board is required for this project and Design review by the design review board is at the option of the applicants the applicant has chosen to Have input from the design review board as well. So we're holding the joint meeting today So project description major design review with preliminary design review approval by both the DRV and cultural heritage board is required for the proposed project Exceeding 5,000 square feet within a historic combining district the applicant Project that they'll be discussing today is construction of a new five-story 36,650 square foot 24 unit mixed-use building in the st. Rose preservation district additionally a major landmark alteration permit Reviewed and subject to approval by the cultural heritage board is required for this project for both demolition of the existing building as well As approval of a building height in excess of 35 feet and two stories within a historic combining district The proposed building height of the new structure is approximately 57 feet six inches So the project location is in downtown Santa Rosa in the northeast quadrant And it's located there at the elbow of Healdsburg Avenue where it becomes a B Street adjacent to City of Santa Rosa parking structure, which will be important As the applicant will explain with regard to their parking plan the project is located within retail and business services land use designation and The retail business services land use designation pursuant to land use and livability policy LUL dashi dash six does allow multifamily development within this land use As well as the office development, which would be the ground floor use for this mixed-use structure and as we see it is across the street from a Medium-high density residential land use there on the west side of B Street. However, it is Within the retail and business services land use designations entirely to the east side of B Street and Healdsburg Avenue The on this slide as well. I'll go ahead and point out that the zoning is downtown commercial Five-story height in a station area plan This project is subject to the downtown station area specific plan as well as the historic combining district Additional regulations contained in the zoning code In this image here I overlaid the a st. Rose preservation district So you could see the location of the proposed project within the st. Rose preservation district located there at the edge of the preservation district and then additionally this image identifies the those those Structures or or properties that are contributors to the establishment of the st. Rose preservation district So the subject property is not a contributor to the establishment of the district at the time of the most recent survey The building was was less than 45 years old And so it would not have been considered potentially a historic resource However, since that time the building has is now over 45 years old and so a historic resource study will be required Shouldn't application be submitted And I'm available to answer any questions you might have the applicant Has a detailed presentation that addresses both site development and design considerations for the proposed project Thank You Andrew We'll start with questions for staff and we'll start with the design review board. So Adam. Do you have any questions for staff? No questions at this time. Thank you Henry questions for staff no questions Drew questions for staff. Yeah So with this this property has to have its landmark alteration permit done, but it would potentially be Fast-tracked because it's residential and it's in the station area plan combining district correct Well, so that's a great point. Thank you for bringing that up The the project due to its location within the downtown station area plan is within a priority development area And so the city resilient measures or the resilient city measures Would apply except that it is in a historic district. So the resilient city measures State that if a project is located within a historic district then it is subject to design review Pursuant to the historic combining district So we would see this project for a preliminary and final at some point for a major design review as opposed to Right, you would you would see it for preliminary However, the resilient city measures do delegate all final review to planning staff. So this would get delegated as it So it would okay that makes sense Okay, cool. That's my question But certainly you would have the option you could have the option of approving final design review at the time that the preliminary design review is Thanks And also I should note that a neighborhood meeting was held on January 30th for this project and was well attended Good question drew and thank you Andrew Eric any questions Moving over to cultural heritage board Laura any questions for staff John any questions for staff and Kurt no mark. I have one. I'd like to staff. Can you confirm the Period of significance for the St. Rose district in the year of construction on the existing structure I I've got I found from one source, but I normally Check more than one source in the our guidelines. I don't have time to check the second at the moment I have 1872 to 1948 on the source that I checked and I wanted to verify if that's on the official numbers for that I'll I can check on that and get back with you Of the existing sorry of the existing structure that was constructed in 1969 that consists on with its appearance. Thank you Thank you mark any other questions for staff And I have no questions for staff So at this time I'd like the applicant to make a presentation Once you approach the microphone if you could for the record give us your name and your relationship to the project That would be great, and if you could also remember to speak into the microphone. We've had some visual issues with the Televised streaming so thank you Can you hear me? good, okay, my name is Tom karsten. I'm the applicant and We also own the property and I if you permit me I'll have presented I've prepared a Be a brief introduction. I'd like to share with you all a little historical background of the property of the lake Good afternoon. My name is Tom karsten and along with my development partners at Archaeologic We are the applicant on the project before you To the respective board chairs and members of the cultural heritage and design review boards I want to thank you for the opportunity to present our project and receive your comments Having served on the DRB and planning commission in an earlier life I am well familiar with the time commitment associated with these important volunteer positions And appreciate your willingness to serve in that capacity Before I turn our presentation over to Mitch Connor our design architect and Christine Talbot our landscape architect. I thought it might help if I could provide some background The current building on the subject site was built in 1969 to serve as a podiatry clinic and surgery center until my firm purchased the property in 1995 And we've occupied it ever since Prior to purchasing this property we were tenants in the two-story office building Immediately adjacent to the subject property to the north for four years that would be This work it would be this property right here Just immediate adjacent So we have been a resident and property owner in the neighborhood for over 28 years And as such have been privy to the changes that have taken place over that time Back in November 2005 We proposed a redevelopment plan of the site to build a four-story 22,000 square foot office building on the site that was jointly approved by the DRB and cultural heritage boards However, due to a combination of never ending increase in construction cost a softening local office rental market And then the sustained hit of a global recession We tabled the project as it was no longer economically viable Then in early 2017 and prior to the October fires We envisioned redeveloping the site with a mixed-use building comprised of ground floor commercial office space that will serve as new offices for my firm and that of my development partner Archeologics with the upper four floors comprised of studio one and two bedroom apartment units Allowing for six units per floor for a total of 24 residential rental units all units will have outdoor balconies in Doing so this project complies with the city objectives to build high-density housing appropriate for a city-center pedestrian friendly environment However, the site offers some interesting and rather complex issues to overcome The first is the site is only 60 feet wide by 140 feet deep This narrowness of the site represents some significant design challenges to efficiently provide Residential units while also being respectful of neighboring buildings and uses This is compounded by the fact that the office buildings to the north of our building sit directly on the property line And the apartment building to the south is a mere four feet off the property line As such this leaves us with little flexibility in providing four plates Large enough to build appropriate sized apartment units necessary to attract tenants Making the economic feasibility of our project all the more challenging Would you go to? Slide to thank you However, that is not the only challenging aspect we are faced with For the slide that you're looking at the red box represents our site And you will note it is situated on the southeastern edge of the st. Rose historic preservation district that is highlighted in green The site is also part of the downtown station area specific plan courthouse square sub area highlighted in orange Therefore our site is governed by overlapping district designations and these plans have their own set of growth redevelopment objectives and multiple design constraints that unfortunately are not entirely consistent with one another To break it down further the purple dotted line denotes an entryway street type that has its own set of guidelines and Since this street traffic designation was created B Street traffic flow patterns were altered to accommodate changes brought forth with the reunification of courthouse square Making B Street a more heavily traffic thoroughfare that funnels traffic through and around downtown and a freeway on ramps I mentioned this to point out that this action did much to alter the nature of all properties on B Street That sit between College Avenue to the north and 7th Street to the south The significance of these changes is that it is unlikely this edge of the historic district can be turned back to what it was Envisioned 30 years ago when the district guidelines were created Unless there are significant changes to how traffic flow is directed on B Street Then there is the proximity of the 7th Street garage to the east of our site While the garage is not a contributor as a historic structure because of location immense size and how tall it is it cannot be ignored as it is in every way a contributor to what is going on all around us and Because of its location it serves as a vital component of our project for it allows us to not have to add parking on the site With that in mind and given how we've designed the project We feel we are actively engaging the parking lot by enhancing its accessibility and usage We point this out to demonstrate there is a lot going on in and around the subject site With each plan having different objectives related to this location that don't always mesh in context and intent That coupled with designing a project that can reasonably address both DBR and CHB guidelines that with respect to our site are also in conflict have made this a very challenging exercise Simply put the complexity of the site having to serve so many different masters make for a challenging project to design and make work I Will now turn the presentation over to our design team who will address issues associated with the design and architecture Once again, thank you for your time, and we look forward to your comments. Thank you. Well, good afternoon I'm Mitch Connor principle with archeologics and development partner with Tom and his colleagues What I'd like to do is pick up on the last item topic that Tom was referring to which is the streets and Certainly, you know any good design problem has as Tom points out sometimes several masters that we have to pay attention to and so I think once we Realized that the street in particular the gateway street type. I think it enabled us and sort of freed up our thinking to look at a More intense or robust development and architectural solution that was appropriate for this edge of the of the historical district so Sorry So just as a matter of definition the the dashed line the purple line the entry street type It exists for along key corridors in locations that bring travelers to the specific plan area in this case from the north To the south and vice versa the goal of the entry street type is to mediate between the small-scale Residential development and the larger-scale development So I think when once we and this actually came from the comment that Tom made earlier About his sort of watching the street change over the years that we sort of married up the idea that You know the streets really define the you know the experience of the district from an urban planning point of view It's really the sort of underlying Idea that you know enables our architectural response to have meaning and value and purpose So this really I believe helped us you know sort of justify the kind of architectural response that we're going to look at So one of the things that we did For this in order to understand the street is moving from north to south We sort of did a kind of an MRI on that section of street to really understand You know what the role previous buildings have played in defining this sort of gateway experience So what we did is we got four sort of sections through here This one is you know the Moor building Healsburg Avenue and 10th Street So you can see the sort of the section and the relationship of the public realm to existing buildings As we move further south there's the brew or I think that's what it's called that the restaurant and pub and The open space that the city owns adjacent to the parking structure so at this point the aperture of the street really opens up and You know our experience with this idea of bringing buildings to the back of sidewalks You know and understanding the impact of that a lot of times has to do with You know creating a kind of a canyon effect, which can be a you know sort of a negative experience For me personally as a resident of the town Green and Windsor We have a lot of that and it can be quite pleasant and it's actually a feature of that environment So we weren't necessarily intimidated by bringing the building to the street But we also needed to sort of justify and understand You know how it was going to be perceived as you moved on this on this street So the next section Which really is our our building our buildings to the left in the cross hatch section Then you see these large front yards that are in front of the Victorians there So it really opens up and you know There's no in our opinion no difficulty or challenge here as far as Unnecessary shading or sort of a scale of development that would intimidate, you know the pedestrian In fact if anything it starts to get and create I think a stronger edge on the on the east side And then the final one is down as you get into these apartment buildings Which actually do what we're talking on you know Which we think is a good thing which is they are coming to the sidewalk You know in allowing not just the mass but the you know the detail of those buildings be Experienced differently for the pedestrian in a positive way and Just as a kind of a reflection point and for some of you that remember the root at back in 98 You know that national team spoke specifically to this collector's tree doing exactly what it's doing now And in fact talked about bringing liner buildings in front of the mall to even reinforce that experience even more so Hopefully as we continue to you know Redevelop and repurpose our downtown with some of these planning You know goals that are about to be revised and put in place You know we remember that we have a lot of history with this particular street You know being a collector and being kind of a launching point as you you know experience these different districts So before I turn this over to Christine and she can talk about the landscaping the Development guidelines for construction of infill development. These are the sort of three things that we really want to talk about You know here with you to this afternoon First of all, this is a contemporary building. There's no you know, we're not trying to camouflage it in some kind of you know Historical excuse me architectural type We certainly respect older buildings obviously and what they bring to our you know to Development in general in the history of Santa Rosa, but we think in an interpretive way We've come forth with sort of a rendition of a building that you know tries to you know Make a gesture to you know our history Christine will talk about the landscaping and then I will come back and talk about the details of the building and how Is it you know comes out of the ground what it what it starts to do? So these are important elements that we'll we'll focus on Good evening, I'm Christine Talbot from quadriga landscape architecture and Just speaking a little bit about the presence of the building and the landscape and how one explores the street and Comes into the building. I really want to point to things. Does this show up? No, okay? so the public sidewalk is a very important component of You know electrifying the street and creating more of a pedestrian experience and we do have The B Street connection, but we also have the connection to the public sidewalk on the eastern side, which is Adjacent to the public garage. So we have the opportunity to create a little bit of a Paseo Along our property to create some movement in and out of The site and to allow for a more pedestrian oriented development much of our landscaping will probably be Low to allow visibility into the building and to provide the Low-impact development requirements that we have for stormwater and especially at the street We're going to have a lot of variety in the planting material to make it engaging and To allow a view out of the building The windows along the sidewalk so that there's some transparency in and out The Mitch will talk about the circulation within the building, but we also have this Paseo where we envision a Transparent opening here. There'll be a gate. So it'll be open during business hours But they'll have the ability to close it off for security reasons so that residents can have some security in the evening We will have a screening fence along the north Property line that will be decorative and have vines to provide some privacy to the neighbors to the north because they have therapeutic Business that they have so they would like to have some privacy and also the building tenants would like to have a little privacy We envision this area as being very rich in material. It's a small space but it'll be highly detailed with interesting pavement the interest in the Fencing and also will have some more columnar trees interrupting the space and providing a little separation between the properties As we move through the Paseo, there'll be entries into the downstairs space, which would be envisioned as office space and could be Used as breakout space during the day for employees to have lunch or meet and then also a gate into the more residential portion of the building where residents would Access their home along the southern Side of the property. There's access in and out. This is exit only doors for You know emergency exits and also just daily use and this component will also be detailed with interesting materials and overhead components to provide interest at the street level and The same level of detailing with the pavement and the planting and to show some of the elements that we're looking at right now to kind of keep that transparency right now, we're looking at ways to Visibility in the site and still provide privacy. So we're playing with different materials metal and glass woven metal fencing And or a mesh component. So these are the materials that we're looking at right now We look for opportunities to grow vines on the building to bring some of that greening and up the vertical and Again interesting pavement patterns so that there's it's like a little jewel box Paseo with a lot of interest and then columnar plantings so the The ground floor the first floor The idea on the B Street side like Christine alluded to And again, we have a space plan this this Sweet, I mean, it's Tom's office and ours But some of the things that we've all kind of committed to and I think this is a real positive is that the That the public experience as you're going down B Street. I'm a real big believer in sort of transparent edges in the buildings I think people like to see activity and if they don't see activity They like to see some kind of an illuminated building in the evenings So this would be you know, like a like a lobby for our two offices It would be kind of a meeting combination really creative. Maybe even a gallery type space. So the idea is that You know when we shut it down at night assuming that ever happens in an architectural office of that, you know there will be things that we can display and You know possibly tie into an art program with the city I'll show you in a second the kind of window systems, but they're they are steel sash. They're quite large on both This edge and the street edge We think it's important that you know that the material and the windows be interesting just in and of themselves So I'll show you what we have in mind there The thing about the Paseo like Christine said, you know, it's it is a breakout space. It's it's meant to be active And yet at the same time out of respect to the people who will be renting, you know the sort of Lobby for the residents there is sort of a you know, not back of house But a more secured way of getting into the building and the same for our staff So people are working here at night, you know, and they do decide to go home at some point And they don't want to go back into the garage this way They want to go down the street and you know that there's a series of checkpoints that they can kind of take stock of What's going on around them as they move out, you know into the the public areas So floor is two through five As Tom talked about and and And Andrew it's it's the residential component elevator I'll talk about this corridor in a second These are the four two-story elements that are on the street edge And we've carved this corner off and I'll show you the elevations and why we did that Then we have three one bedroom four one bedroom and a studio Vertical circulation stairwells with you know exits to that controlled part of the Of the south part of the building We thought it was important out of respect to the apartment to our south that even though we like windows in these corridors You know just to bring some light in You know, it might be some kind of a diffuse glass type window system So that you know people can get some kind of light that's in the corridor spilling out They're just not looking at a big dark blank wall, and I'll show you that elevation in a second These are the other balconies that face north Balcony here that looks out unfortunately, you know, we have a big parking structure But it does bring in light to this unit and this one a little less so The north elevation the long elevation parking structure b street These are the window systems we're talking about so what you see here is pretty much what we're going to be creating Not only along the the peseo, but also on the street side the b street side, which I'll show you in a minute Building materials consist of a base, which is a split face block That moves along the long, you know this direction here It also is is part of the vertical circulation Both for the elevator and then when you see it on the street side and for that matter even from the parking structure It becomes part of the the structural statement for those particular uses of the building We are using for the primary body of the building So we've got a base we're using the james hardy reveal smooth panel system These colors here are their standard colors, but We think what's probably going to be in our best interest is if we bring Hardy product to the site that's primed and we're now talking with them about you know field painting this because it's it's just I'm a little surprised at the limit of faint colors they have but That's just me I guess So if we go to the front Street elevation again the steel sash windows These are steel sash windows here in the balcony on the corner. We have a 3d of this Here's the vertical circulation of the stair Christina I think she mentioned that there's some kind of vine planting the other thing that we're looking at is possibly bringing in some public art On that particular corner You can see the gateway, you know taking you you know into the peseo This is the elevation from the parking structure block block and smooth panel hardy and the The balconies for the studio in one bedroom and then this is that south elevation There's a number of windows. So, you know, it's they'll be getting a lot of you know Light it's not going to be bright, but it'll be enough that people in these apartments will You know not feel too intimidated. Hopefully by by our building And this is kind of a work in progress 3d model It starts to give you a sense of Of you know what happens at the street how it feels our neighbor That tom talked about where he used to have his office the apartment building to the south The block as you know comes along goes up Things that we're doing now are cleaning up cornices. This indentation isn't quite as deep as as you see here Because we're giving back some space, you know to the bedroom units that are basically here right here And What this doesn't depict that the elevation did is that the steel sash window and the structure that Defines or creates that opening As you can see it, you'll actually see the steel members that read like it's part of the actual window system So it's it's not just a punched opening with a you know with a window system that We think it's important to express the structure at this particular side of the building And like I say these colors This was another attempt to try and understand You know, what if we did if we lightened it up? So obviously when we get back in front of everybody You know, you'll see the real deal and And as far as the corner I want to touch on this one more time We understand primarily in the downtown plan that This notion of that after the third level there starts to be an attempt to sort of layer the building So part of the reason that we showed the street sessions was to say well, that's really not necessary As far as impacting the public realm however as a gesture to do that and to make these units more interesting We sort of took a notch out of this corner. So we have a A system of metal railing in trim pieces And obviously as another steel sash window from these are the living rooms for those two bedroom units So this is where we are right now. Um, obviously we're here for feedback and comments and Welcome your questions Thank you. Great presentation both from a historical perspective and uh, where we're headed in the future. So thank you Um, normally a concept review. We try and keep it a little bit lighter But because there's so many people here, I think we'll take it one by one And go with questions and comments. Um, and we'll start with the design review board. So questions and comments adam Let's do public comment first. That's a great Chair in training Okay, so we'll open up public comment on this item Uh, I have one card, but that doesn't mean that others cannot speak. Um, so one card I have is for mr. Joe lilin fall We want to keep the comments to three minutes and uh, we appreciate you being here joe Thanks, uh, joe lilin fall 317 10th street and uh, I just Want to reinforce the The overall look of the building just it seems too large. Uh, normally in historic districts, you have Setback from the street and not a wall right at the back of the sidewalk Even the apartment building to the south has a setback And just as a an aesthetic if you want to compare something a newer building that was built a few years ago Three properties to the south of this one. It's 514 b street And if you stand back and look at that you'll notice that the design is not copying anything else It's it's its own design. It's not super modern. There's some elements that were taken with tile roof and things But if you stand back from the street and look at it it it fits into the scope Of the buildings next to it this to me Looks really large and it's kind of just blot out everything. Maybe if it was stepped back Um, and wasn't such a prominent Big wall on the street it'd be it'd be different, but it just seems like it's uh too big and not quite uh Into the historic district as far as blending in thank you Thank you for your comments. I have another card from uh, thomas pope Thank you. Uh, I am uh part of the building to the north of this proposed building and so we I'm the building that's We're the building that goes right up to the property line and The concerns that we have are are several one is the construction part and one is the basic design Um, this is going to dwarf our building to the north and shade our property Tremendously that paseo also will have people Right outside of our windows and we're a psychotherapy clinic and this is going to adversely affect our business Um, there is a tree you can see that's behind that that's not a great Uh picture of our building That's in a courtyard and it's going to become problematic of how we deal with that for both properties If this is built the way it is um We have a lot of concern about b street during construction Because there's no place for construction trucks to be and it's going to block the street And it's already a dangerous street when they took out our parking along our side of the street there And made it a three-lane Uh roadway it's a thoroughfare and it's going to create a lot of problems with how construction materials are going to be dealt with there's no parking and Uh taxis and delivery trucks will block the road also after construction So these are some of our concerns. It's already adversely affected our property values realtors say that We have to disclose this is in progress and it's going to reduce the price of our building if we try to sell it now And afterward it's going to also adversely affect it And it's just so big it dwarfs us. It's going to shade us and It's problematic building for us. I understand them wanting to build it But it just seems too much for the property Thank you Thank you as well for your comments Any other members of the public wishing to speak on this item? Seeing no one heading to the microphone. I will close the public comment period and again, thank you for the reminder Okay, back to questions and comments Adam Thank you And uh, yeah, thank you for the very thorough presentation. I did appreciate the introduction. That was great to hear that I can definitely tell that a lot of thought has gone into this project and you guys have been residents there So you're invested in it Yeah, it is a really interesting site because it does have those overlapping The zones and it's that boundary between the residential and the downtown and it is interesting. It's a it's a It's a thorny issue. I mean you you guys are would definitely be improving on the site and on the building that's there that's for sure and And it is it's a neighborhood in transition as well and it is having the the inclusion of more of the more modern looking buildings into the very Beautiful stately homes that are there. I think right across the street. They're the Larger beautiful Victorian homes. Sorry architects if they're not Victorian, but um, they like Victorian to me But uh, and so And and and I do appreciate that you um You haven't necessarily tried to reference that or mirror it. You're you're doing something new in in this historic neighborhood And and I think that um that that that is definitely appropriate improvement One of the things um one of the things I've been thinking about just in terms of this the scale as well, um Uh I do appreciate bringing in the density in the housing. Um, I wonder if the if some more thought can really be devoted to softening it somehow just the scale uh the thinking About the northern north side, you know, you've got the three trees along the base of the columnar trees I wonder, you know, I know that this is um, you guys are really maximizing the site very narrow very, you know It's you're you're putting a lot of building onto there, which I also feel is appropriate, but just thinking of ways to to kind of um To really soften the edges a bit. Um, you have those neighbors that are really close the you know the the south side, um You know, I like the the fencing and the vines um the large, uh Side of the building there potentially even thinking of you know, living wall or something like that They could really just you know bring in something. I know that that brings in a lot of other concerns in terms of maintenance What's there, but just you've got large structure. Just think about softening it a little bit moving around to the front um I know on the uh Southwestern corner, there's the rain garden planter um I didn't see an inclusion of a street tree on that side. Um, is there a reasoning behind that? This south southern corner southwestern Okay, and they're sticklers about the microphone. So Mainly for people at home. Yeah Yeah, it's a six foot walk So we haven't included a street tree at this time if we need to include when we can okay Yeah, that's just one thing to think about because you're you're softening that the northern side, but then the other side um Yeah, something to think about there. Um, I do appreciate the Thought with the rain gardens going into that On the the front and I do appreciate I liked the the thought that it was going into the transparent edges of the streetscape I thought that was a really nice idea um One of the things you don't want to have because if you have a You know the the softening that you you are doing Is to not just have an edifice just this huge wall if you do have these windows And like you say having something engaging is really great people walking by there's a lot of traffic From downtown to the coffee shop around right across the way There's people working and living and so having something that's really fun To to look at when you walk by you know architecture offices. I just say are busy late and it's always fun to see People working on drawings. Um, and so, um I appreciate the thought that's going into into that um And then in terms of the peseo again, um, you know, I'm looking on the The the street view of the site it looks like the the tree that could become problematic is is something deciduous deciduous the the Um, the street view photo is in winter. So I can't tell the leaves, but it looks like it is growing over Uh, and so that just wondering how it's not reflected on the plan and how that You know referencing the the the big tree that's there Pulling that up Yeah, it wasn't the street view. I'm looking at isn't on your slide. It's actually the google street street view because uh Yeah, and that's it's it is, you know a big big tree that's there and it's it will be growing over and as the The neighbor mentioned it could be problematic to figure out what is happening with that that overhang It's gonna overhang the peseo as well um and uh And to think of ways also you've got the peseo with the Columnar trees and then the bump out where it gets Paved for three quarters of the way and then fully paved for the middle portion of it. Um, and that's also happens to be the portion that is Right next to where the building butts up against the property line. Um, and so Uh Just some thought into how that's going that division that's going to be there and how that that is going to be Soften with those rooms if they're psychotherapy Practice rooms that are right there then noise is going to be a concern as well Of thinking how you can screen for noise and for movement You know being a good neighbor Um also Thinking moving towards the back of the site the public sidewalk and the gates and security that's there where Exactly is the the access. I see it on the again on the the google map that um right towards the I guess would be the north a little southeastern Corner of the the side the access to the parking garage Um And it and it seems like there's a stairwell directly Right on the end there once you come out on this sidewalk. I think there's a point About right there where you can go into the garage. Okay It's south Okay, and then a question of um, I guess this might be a question for staff I don't know if this is with you but in in terms of getting reserved spots in the parking garage will they be reserved right next To the site or can that happen in public parking garages? I think the reserved spaces are available on a monthly basis But i'm not certain how they Determine where those spaces would be located. Okay okay, um And you know, of course safety security along that Walkway that sidewalk there is definitely going to be something to think about Um I think That will that's got all of my parts. So Thank you Thank you, adam Henry questions and comments for the applicant Um, thank you for bringing us a very well thought out project. Um, I Like the massing of it. I Would be a hypocrite if I said it was too tall since I designed six one five Aka the moor building so um, and thank you for a little bit of Of taking us on that MRI through the street section because that does really help tell the story of how B street is changing and changing by Changing out It becoming a a gateway street. So Uh, and you took me back a little bit to the uh, rudat Sessions that we went through and and I'm glad to see this is is developing in the way that it was structured back then too as well um My question for you Mitch is is the neighborhood meeting that you've had so far I don't know if you've had one or two I I know when we were going through the process And in typical processes you go to the meetings who listened to comments Could you summarize any of those comments that? Were made at the meetings and if if this current design reflects any of those changes Are you planning on making future changes based on neighborhood comments? Well, I think they're similar to what we are hearing today. I mean, there's just this general feeling that the building You know is possibly too big So then that leads to a discussion from a development point of view of you know The economics of the project and how it works for us So, you know, I think we'd be kidding everybody if we said that that's not part of the conversation because it is So once we get past that then it's you know, how do we You know, how do we soften the street? How do we make it an approachable building? I think people want to know that that you know, you're not going to have I think we were hearing that Too big too intimidating. Well, then, you know, I think what designers do is they look for those Those opportunities to use different materials into light buildings a certain way and to you know Use window systems that people feel comfortable with and they want to be around And so it's just you know telling our story a little bit differently The peseo, you know, it's a transitional space going from, you know, east to west People will be gathering there, but we want it to be safe and yet, you know, it could very well be a public space Especially if we space plan these in a way that you know, maybe we actually bring in another tenant That might be at the back of that. So, you know, we need to be mindful of how that works and so forth You know, I think the comment they were just Yes, we've evolved the building materials. I mentioned the color. I think that's going to be an important stroke that we're going to have to figure out But uh, you know It's I think a lot of it was just it's a big building and so how do we How do we play the game of, you know, additive and deductive Forms, you know, as far as the corners the in and out You know, I probably would have helped possibly to show the project that tom did back in the mid, you know, let go 506 The difference was that that was a complete office building And as you know, office building in office space is a lot more forgiving than residential development Where you actually have, you know, living units that you You start getting them too small and then the whole thing starts to fall apart. So We've been looking at or did look at roof forms and felt that this, you know The flat roof at this height You know, we don't have people looking down on us other than maybe the parking garage So that was, you know, I think a good thing that we keep, you know, keep using but I think our goal is to just make this of a nicely crafted building that people want to look at even in the in a modern rendition and You know, the research that we do in communities One that comes to mind for me is savannah georgia. I was there last year In his, you know, that town is all about historical architecture And yet where they probably are spending the majority of their time are these transitional edges That are modern buildings and that's driven by businesses wanting to get into these, you know, historical areas. And so What did they do? Well, they focus on these features that i'm talking about these things that Are about, you know, making the human experience of walking by buildings, you know, memorable and So that was a takeaway I also practiced in santa barbara for years and I understand that downtown district and how they brought more modern, you know Buildings there and it's a lot of the same things i'm talking about so I think what we don't want to do and what was mentioned in those four items and we can go back to those those four talking points, you know, is to Not be authentic about something that's historical and I think that is a big I mean historical architecture like we're talking about, you know, has its own price points and its own way of, you know, There's nothing worse than a you know than a knockoff and so Um, we that did not interest us as as a development team and designers And that's not a slight on the historical district at all So, I don't know if I answered your question. You did at length and thoroughly you'll learn I'm glad you mentioned the colors. I It's it's my biggest knit with the project that that that uh dark brown and navy blue Um having three older sisters They would have never let me get out of the house wearing those two colors together So I'm not sure they work on the building either. I'd like to see Some happier colors more vibrant colors. Maybe you know, take a look at the neighborhood and And help help it become a little bit more vibrant and and I'm glad to hear that you're Going to go away from the standard hearty colors and get get something more vibrant. I'd like to see that the next go around um My other my other comment that that you might find some use in is is the south elevation And I almost I was going to suggest something crazy and have you mirror the building and have the peseo and the the the balconies interact with the neighbors and Like I said, it was crazy for a second But I was thinking of the depth of the peseo is so wide. It's 10 12 feet wide And that would give a better a bigger setback to the to the apartments, but I think a better solution is kind of where adam was going and maybe that wall becomes a little bit of a living wall Or we you you come up with something that is a little more palatable for those existing apartments to look at And you know a nicer color will help but having some sort of visual break in it, whether it's a vertical Uh finned element or a living wall, you know, you're the architect You guys you guys figure out what what what would be appealing from the neighbors from those neighbors in particular to look at Um and actually like all the balconies and the lighting going to the to the north North lights awesome, and you've got less heating cooling gains to deal with so your approach is is pretty spot-on and I'm looking forward to seeing it at preliminary design review Good luck. Thank you. Henry drew comments and questions for the applicant Sure, I've uh, I've got a couple of questions first before I get to my comments. Um, so Mitch the uh So you on the site plane you indicated that it's five feet from the South side of the building uh to the property line it looks like and then you have that bump-in Component is is that about six feet there? You're talking about in the peseo And uh the south side south side. Yeah, I'll get to the north side in a second Yeah, this is yeah that right there. Is that about six feet you say it's about six So then because you said that the building The adjacent multifamily one that's three stories to the south is about four feet from the property line So you're creating about 10 feet in that area Right to try to get over some fire rating stuff. I would imagine Okay, um So that's about 10 feet and then the width of the peseo I couldn't find that anywhere. Um, how wide is the peseo? It's 10 It's 15 Yeah The thing about the peseo that you you can sort of see dashed in is the balconies that overhang into the peseo on the second And that's and then that's your 10 feet, right? So you're gonna have you know, yeah So you start to get a sense of closure above you You know with the way those those were cool. It's not just a sheer wall. Right. Yeah, sure Okay, so then how wide is the corridor on the second through the fifth floors? Probably five feet. Yeah five or six. Yeah, something like that. Okay, cool There's a reason I ask So I'll get to that So Thanks for a good package again I think for I'm gonna agree with the color thing too But for me, I think it's more materiality That I'm having an issue with specifically In the design guidelines it talks about utilizing historic materials or that found in the district, right That's not to say that I would want you to mimic a building because I think that's completely against the Secretary of the Interior's historic preservation standards to mimic historic architecture, right against a historic building So the split face block is also the structure Of the stair tower and the elevator tower, correct. I would assume Well, it could be. I mean, we're looking at a modular system intentionally, so we're gonna have the whole podium construction question So, yeah, it could be structural block. It could be structural block or it could be poured concrete as part of the podium It could be steel frame and then the block is a veneered material. Yeah, it could be a lot of different things. Okay Yeah, I think for me the split face block I mean, I like split face block a lot. I've used it on a number of projects I just I don't know if it's the right intervention here materiality wise and funny enough I would actually be totally okay with like panelized formed steel or concrete I think I mean like if you want to go modern like go modern, right? Just go big or go home, right? Or board for concrete would be really kind of unique or I know there's a lot of different things that you could do Um, I think the split face block is I don't know. Maybe texturally. It's not the right thing Uh, I think from actually there's a if you've seen the we use it on storage pro over here Where we grind smooth this split face block if you've seen that or not, it's beautiful. Yeah, it does look Can you bring forth the you know the the the aggregate and the cement and you don't have that sort of rough texture But yeah, it's a beautiful material. Yeah, I've used some shot blast cmu in the past As well, it's it's similar to that or where you're grinding. Yeah, it's really cool So I I do take issue with the height a little bit So I have a question Is it an economic factor that's driving the fifth story? In terms of the story is two through five and the amount of units That you would need to get on site for density in terms of kind of a payback for the I mean, it's a honest question. You don't have to answer me. You don't want to Is it well, I can I can let tom and peter speak to this too, but Yeah, yes, I mean, yes it is and and let's be honest about it. There's another big component and that's the City's encouragement to do taller buildings right now in the downtown. No, and I uh, so I mean it's You know, we're not really nilly about this. I mean, you know, it's it there's We understand these transitional kind of sites and um, so it's So we're sort of meeting a housing demand kind of question, but but yeah The economics for sure. Yeah, and so I think I think what's unique about this site Compared to some other sites that we've seen actually in different projects Is because it does have that backdrop of the parking garage Which is large and in charge in many ways, but is also shorter than this building And then you have the historic apartment building next door to it Which is now being dwarfed in many ways by this building Right, so for me that interplay between this five-story kind of 57 foot tall building adjacent to What's probably about a 30 ish foot building and then also the Probably 40 ish 35 to 40 foot Parking structure I think that interplay is it's what's kind of making me scratch my head Um five stores would Be okay. I think maybe But I think it's because of that historic building adjacent to it. I I totally I buy into the whole Discussion of the street scale And I'm told in total agreement with this idea that you put the building straight up against the sidewalk I think that is the scale that's established on b street from 7th street kind of to where it does this business with Healdsburg and uh where the brew restaurant is I mean that's definitely the scale that's being created there. So it's not that I have an issue at that It's that the total overall height Uh specifically related to that fifth story I think four would be okay because it's kind of a in-between ish Um scale thing and it's it's specific and the reason I bring it up Is in the Historic properties and districts section of the design guidelines 4.7 Let me find it 4.7 g1. I believe it talks about new construction And it says design new construction to be compatible in height and proportion with adjacent structures And I think if we weren't in a historic district, I'd say hey go five stories go bigger go home, right? but because of the connection to the historic properties that's where I have A hang up with the total overall height that it's not a transitional Kind of thing. It's just hey, here's five stories. Um, but if it were four, it's closer to the garage and the adjacent building So then regarding my questions about kind of the distances from the property lines and whatnot. I'm curious if They're And and your units on the upper floors are tight. I can see But I'm wondering if there's space to kind of adjust that corridor Maybe a foot or two and I'm wondering if utilizing this is getting into the weeds a little bit Utilizing instant hot water heaters and different You know different arrangements and still interaction And then that then intertwined intertwines with the four elevations of the building Because I think the southern side of the build. I actually really like the northern side I mean, that's really I mean, this is built for modular many ways because you have a very repetitive rhythm And the south side is just starved for that architectural attention Whereas the other three sides of the building are not They're they're intriguing. They're interesting. There's Pushes and poles. There's voids. There's glazing um, and particularly, you know On the south side, there's a very kind of service capacity of what's going on with the l-shape Of your podium and then your your stair tower Which makes total sense why you would do that and then the upper floors obviously have that same Push-pull glazing thing going on as the other two sides. So the south side to me I need some love In many ways, and that's why I'm wondering if you can steal a little bit of space and maybe Find a way to to to activate that ground floor and then Create that corridor to have a little something That makes sense Let's see what else I had There was one other thing in the design guidelines that I wanted to read to you Uh, so section two core area historic districts within the downtown and station area plan So again, this is my height thing design buildings to be sensitive to the neighborhood with regard to scale architectural style Use or materials bulk and historic context. This is especially important in designated historic districts so again, that's Kind of what i'm talking about that five-story height bit And you're already kind of at the minimum for your plate heights at 12 10 10 10 10, I mean If you took it down to nine that I mean that's You're gonna feel like you're in a cave in those units above. So that's that's why I was asking What what could you do on the upper floor? Is it Take out half of the upper floor Well, we looked at yeah, I don't know, you know to what you're speaking about For the fourth and fifth floor, I mean it just we dropped units is what we ended up doing. So we moved that in It creates and like we didn't bring these drawings obviously, but you know it starts to create excuse me some roof forms that If they're flat, then what do they use for us? Is it just more out? It's like a roof terrace kind of idea, which is you know, we're doing more of those um But I think what we all finally You know when we went full circle on the stepping back idea Is like well, is that really going to change the ground plane and it's not Yeah, and I would agree with you. It's not but so then that led to well Let's open up the camera angle here and let's really understand what the street's telling us and the street's telling us You know if you look at that width from those face of those Victorians in a really deep front yard you know, it's like well I don't know. I mean to me it just it doesn't feel inappropriate. That's for sure, you know Now if those were up against the street, you know, then maybe this discussion obviously could possibly change but And we're being confronted and and have to address again back to the multiple Planning documents with a downtown plan that's and we're in that that that district So, I mean, you know It gets kind of interesting trying to serve all these masters and And we're not trying to be, you know, we're certainly not disrespectful to any of these documents I mean, we've taken pretty pretty damn serious So I don't know, you know economics. I think it's just Instructibility. I mean, we all you know builders and architects in the room, you know understand, you know, how that works or doesn't And then my last comment is um, it's so funny enough that hardy reveal system. It's actually pretty pricey. I uh It's pretty pricey I so I proposed it on a school project a couple years ago And we actually value engineered out of it in a to a similar hardy product But without the aluminum reveals all over the place Um And uh, it still looked just as good without the aluminum reveals So I think there's some other options uh in that hardy in the hardy line or nichihar or some of these other guys I might want to look at just architect architect Um, that that may not be as expensive as that reveal system It's particularly with the paint situation because I ran up against that as well It's a little limited. You would think they have more flare, but they don't yeah, so Those are my comments Thanks Thank you drew Eric Thank you for the presentation. Um, I agree with you this lot creates Makes it tough the location The surrounding area is the garage especially b street I'm curious because I know this is just concept design, but when it comes to the paseo and The east side of the building Where the sidewalk is there runs parallel to the to the parking garage Lighting what are you looking at in regards to lighting that area? um You know, we haven't gotten into that yet. I mean we're We spent a lot of time on this topic when we you know when we get around to it I think there'll be lighting, you know, we certainly understand the night light kind of concerns that you know development has um So the idea is to you know Make lighting work at the ground plane and yet at the same time You know light the forms of the building in a way that will be interesting Um Yeah, so my lighting question comes from a safety standpoint, right Especially with a five-story building And that back alley that garage does not Amit much light and you're expecting Residents for 24 apartments coming to and from that parking garage primarily Into the back Lobby area so lighting actually becomes really important for a safety perspective So that's kind of why i'm asking at the same time not negatively impacting The neighbors that you have there to especially to the to the north Where the paseo is Well the next round of graphics We really dial in what you're talking about so you you will see night time shots of the entire all the elevations in detail so um I didn't bring them, but uh, we just finished a hotel down in katati for hard rock and The entire there was a whole evening kind of presentation doing exactly, you know, what you're talking about Could you use the microphone so that they could hear you As the owner operator my background is in real estate and have been for 20 30 years and um I'm very concerned of the same things that you're concerned about for the very same reasons and so While we haven't looked at it in great detail You have my assurance that it's going to be, you know priority one for us on the back there for all the same reasons. I mean You know, it's um If we don't have a safe building or a safe locale then we have a problem And it's going to affect everybody. So we're well aware of it. Okay. Appreciate it. Um, another question is so with the The paseo and the trash the location for the trash How is that trash getting out to the street to get collected? You roll it out, don't you right now? Yeah right now But those are individual cans, but when you get to multifamily apartment Building 24 apartments now you're looking at one to two yard Trash dumps or how do you get it through the paseo around the furniture? Out onto the street where you can't get it onto the street Because there's no street parking on b street If you're using individual cans then you're blocking the entire sidewalk, especially if it's enough cans for 24 apartments How do you get around those logistics? That's one of my concerns with going back to I think This lot location becomes very challenging the way b street is set up nowadays Where it's a two-way street Rather than a one-way street Yeah Excuse me These are all great questions by the way. I really like the way you're thinking Is this kind of things that I think about and sleep you know sleep over The short answer is We haven't finalized how we're going to deal with trash The thoughts occurred to us that we might put in some trash compactor components mechanical compactors in there and thereby create a You know through compaction then create smaller trash, you know trash loads and take them out It's hard for me to imagine that each unit is going to have an individual trash thing And but it's our intention that you know we're going to deal with that if that means we have genitors that are going to have to roll out Cans in order to get to the street so that they can be picked up once or maybe if I have to You know contract to have it done a second time during the during the week in order to accommodate Trash and recycling flow then those will be those are what I consider operational types of issues that we'll have to rectify but That's how I anticipate we're going to deal with it. But do I have the perfect answer for you now? No Yeah, and and I appreciate the the candidness and and that's my concern with Bringing the building all the way out to the sidewalk There's no area for parking for package delivery, especially with 24 multiple units. You're you're going to have that There's no There's very limited access for public safety Uh, there's very limited access for people that are going to be moving in with all their furniture Limited access to get trash in and out Whether even if it's compacted it becomes very dense and very heavy Getting that out to the street and my concern is especially when you're looking at a pavement system there in the peseo How loud that gets for the neighbors? Having that having those things rolling back and forth Concerned about the lighting and safety there for the parking garage. So Going back to architectural structure design There's an issue I have a concern with the building going all the way out to the sidewalk and not providing for the services for the tenants For the tenants and occupants as well as the impact that it has on the neighbors So those are my questions and In comments Thanks, eric and before the meeting we decided we'd do the whole design review board then flip over to the cultural heritage board and let mark go last so Don't think i'm hogging the microphone and neglecting my cultural heritage board members here Um, so I think to you know summarize I could echo almost everything that was said here except for the building I had comment I think we're in a transition and we're going to have these difficult questions Come out time and time again as we move into a taller city. Um, so I think that The way in which that you've opened it up for this project For me is enough for this project right because I understand that there's economics of You know density And you got to pay for the building materials and the building materials that you're currently showing Are not inexpensive You know steel windows is a great look. I think it's going to look fantastic in this area and money well spent The reveals that you've done with the balconies Are excellent, especially finishing the roof underneath them So that you get a full you know Full-dimensional design work is is a great feature. I think it's going to do a lot for the project Um, I agree. I was back and forth on the splitter face block It's going to be tough structurally I think to get at that eye So you may lose too much space with the steel, you know form and that is a cladding So that's something to look at one of the Eric touched on one of the main questions I had and and it kind of feels like Maybe it hasn't been fully developed or maybe it's been further developed already So you can answer that if it has is the kind of resident Lobby area versus the space eaten up by the tenant office tenants It kind of seems like that whole restroom core could move south up to the wall and you could leave more room for Some sort of trash solution Maybe a larger elevator depending on how that impacts the upper floors Had the same kind of concerns about move in move out package delivery Trash collection bicycle storage. Um, and so I was kind of hoping those are placeholders for now that They are might get moved around. Yeah, so perfect You'll address us as these questions keep tom up at night Um, so overall, you know, I'm supportive of the project. I think we do need the housing and again I'm supportive of taller buildings because they're just the reality of where we want to head as a city We've made that pretty clear I do understand the transition and impact to neighboring properties And with those properties have the same zoning Collectively as this property so they can certainly go higher and so I think maybe As you go through your street views again multiple times over you kind of imagine what The you know property to the north is going to be one day, right? It might be a 5-story building itself. So just keeping those things in mind as you further the design As well So those are my comments Okay, cool full heritage board We'll start with laura laura Well, we've listened to all of these wonderful comments from the design review board that our mandate is different and Our mandate is to protect these neighborhoods and to protect The historic things so I don't I'm not as concerned with Cladding and things like that. I'm concerned with This basing and the spanning of this building. It's ginormous and it It's not a good neighbor building It's not and it's not a building that I would say I would want to be beside You know if I owned a property next door I think that you're not only You know in the front of b street you're not only At the edge of the sidewalk, but you're over the sidewalk from the second story up and You're taking out You know just a tremendous amount of space on that on that building and it's to to me what drew mentioned earlier about how the impacts on historic district and You know fitting in you don't need to be a mimic of building, but you do I would like to see it be a more of a good neighbor building. I think five five stories is Really really too too much and when you look at the the pictures of the impact on the smaller building To the north and the other building on to the you know to the south it's just It's gin it's ginormous And it just doesn't I don't It doesn't work for me as is I can see where what you have now doesn't work for you either though And but I think at five stories You're just too tall That's all I have Thank you laura job I'm supportive of the project I'm not concerned about the the height of the building But what I am concerned about is is that it is it's kind of stark It is There's a lot of sharp angles I'm not sure that the I mean I think what you've done here is a good first draft But what I think you need to do is is perhaps Take a look a closer look at the at the saint rose district look at some of the The contributors With some ideas perhaps Where you can change the the outward design of of the building It just the way it is now is is just to me not compatible with With the historic nature of the district. I recognize that that you know, you're kind of caught between two You know things the city wants to do and and so that it I just think that somehow you know The thing I worry about is that Whatever you come up with in 50 years that will probably be a contributor To to this district and so what I would like to see is I'd like to see a design that's more compatible With the district that looks more at like I say some ideas that you can gain from design by looking at some of the contributors within the Within the district if you did that then I think that you know, it would be a much more easy thing for me to to You know Support I support the idea of building the structure. I we desperately need the housing But I just think a better design would would would facilitate and perhaps, you know Ameliorate some of the issues that some of my fellow Board members will Come up with or have so Thank you john curt questions comments for the applicant Thank you first of all I'm kind of looking at this project from many different perspectives Going back to Years ago. I was on the cultural heritage board for a year and a half Before I went to the planning commission for six years and I have to say We congratulate the city and the design review board and The cultural heritage board for having these sorts of meetings. I don't think we had years ago I think it's very helpful to probably all parties concerned Being away from the cultural heritage board and Not having absolute knowledge of secretary of interior guidelines fema so-and-so not fema, but I'm a bit rusty Yet at the same time I appreciate the fact that this particular project Has a whole bunch of overlapping controls on it in essence and So I come to this looking for a balance And I think you can achieve it with what you have The terms that stuck out Listening to folks on the design review As well as I think part of your presentation is transition. This is this is an area in transition And as such I don't know and the district is to the st. Rose district in essence As such, I don't think we want to go to hard and fast guidelines of the past. In other words, I take Whoever developed that statement about we don't want to mimic what we once had perhaps It is transitional space We also have a large need for housing Another term I heard was softening The kind of way I look at this is You've got a massive structure behind you there in the parking garage I think this project and others that would front It long I guess that's B Street there softens that impact in that area and that I see that as a bonus as a as a A positive feature for that particular area Also, I'm intrigued. I think it's a very good use of existing parking spaces If you can get the agreements with the city to provide that parking there cooperative agreement that works for me and I have a background in building park instructions So I know how that the pluses and minuses of that as well, so I I encourage you to proceed as you are I'm sure we'll have some When it comes back, I'm assuming it comes back either individually to the committees or whatever will have further comments but I think this is doable And I would encourage you to proceed Thank you, curtain Mark. All right. Thank you Let's let's start out by Were we able to find out the date of the original building and the Verify the period of significance Right. So the date of the original building As the applicant stated was 1969 And the period of significance per the zoning code is 1872 to 1948. Okay. Thank you. I wanted to verify that right off the front Also wanted one more question of the applicant Uh, they made the statement that they wanted to make a gesture to the historic neighborhoods Um, and looking at the elevations. Um, I'm I'm asking you kind of straight out. What exactly gesture are you making to the historic Uh, architecture of that area. Could you point out on the elevation somewhere? Where you're looking at something pre-1948? We're not Thank you With that I'll go into our purview Let me let me expand on that and I won't be long. I mean There's certain principles in architecture about rhythm and openings and all that and it's It historically it's you know in our profession, you know longer than any of us have practiced So those are sort of guiding Things that we you know default to as we put a building together. So Bedroom windows or bedroom windows. It's just you know, how it how it comes together the economics were different from these buildings We're done versus what they are now. So You know, I think there's some basic ideas here that That you know our universal it's just you know, how we choose to Finish them off that you know that will separate them from you know from what's there now Yeah, thank you So the mandate of the cultural heritage board is different from the mandate of the design review board We're not looking at parking or interiors or functional use some excellent things were pointed out by our members on the Design review board regarding that and they're they're very valuable That really isn't the purview that we're supposed to be commenting on today Our purview is how does it fit with the historic district and the guidelines that we've been presented to review it by As far as historic district goes Uh the building itself. I think is a a rather nice modern building. I kind of like it And i'm going against most of the things that I have done in the past when I say the What's called the rhythm of this historic district when viewed On the footprints of the buildings on it is a residential historic district And we're looking for new construction to represent the same footprint configuration of The significant elements of that district which are small single family bungalows spaced on a lot That's not what you're presenting today and for the first time I'm going to say that your large footprint Is would be inappropriate in this location Because of the other context immediately around you So in other words, though I've pushed before that people are putting two larger buildings in footprint wise I think what you're proposing In this particular location does fit the context reasonably well Now we're going to get to the bad news Um The race is not to be the biggest building in a historic district Um, and that seems to be kind of where this one is going Uh We do need to reflect the scale of the historic district And I'm going to go ahead and talk briefly about what are we going to be evaluating Your final presentation by when you come back to us We have seven Categories that we're going to be reviewing by our guidelines Height is number one Number two is proportion Basically kind of the math the massing of the structure in comparison to what the other significant buildings are in that district Rhythm is number three Are you picking up on the story lines and window? organizations and sizes Found also in the district. Are you picking up on the footprint patterns of the district? four setbacks Are you compatible with the other setbacks in the district particularly those on adjacent buildings? five materials and textures Are you using materials and textures on the visible elements of the building that are have context within that district We're not looking for you to copy any architectural style But are you using textures materials in a way that at least relates to other things that can be found in the district of similar buildings six roof shapes Typically we've been saying well, you've got a bungalow district which is significant We're looking for a bungalow roof lines. Well clearly we're not going to do that on this one and seven architectural details and decorative features Are you looking to the other larger buildings in this district for your exterior treatments? I guess or most of these is no Proportion let's talk about the massing of the building You've got a little bit higher parking garage in the back Which is out of scale at the district and you've got one of the bigger buildings in the district right alongside This perturrent current scheme goes significantly higher than either of them When it would probably better to be a transition between them Between the garage height and at least the height of the taller building next door I don't think it's going to be approvable for us to go anything higher than the building next door If we're trying to be honest to what our guidelines are telling us Rhythm and footprint I talked about those already a bit um You have some opportunities to look at the adjacent buildings around you and see if there is a consistent cornice lines Water table lines storefront treatments for your commercial tenants That can be applied to your building and make it tie in with the district rather than utterly rejecting it Setbacks this building is clearly farther out onto the street than anything else on the block That's a problem for us You would need to recognize And somehow ameliorate your building to the setbacks of the adjacent buildings Textures of materials. We're not looking for you to copy any style We're not looking you to do white stucco plaster or anything like that, but some gesture To the other historical buildings of Size in that neighborhood. There's a lot of white buildings. For example Colorism to our purview, but some of the larger buildings have that light colored context you might look at And details And decorative features. We're not going to ask you to put Victorian detail on it But kind of look at the patterns in which the windows and doors and fenestration And stories are handled on the other buildings Uh to be able to say at least we tried to make a nod toward what's in the district As it currently stands it's a rebuttal to the historic district rather than trying to fit in and I think that that would be a difficulty when we came forward for a major alteration permit on that project So I'd like to open to my other members for one more round of comments before we finalize our comments Uh, does anyone else uh, Laura do you have any further thoughts? No, I just it was the massing and and the nod to the historic You know that drew mentioned earlier that was most important to me John I think this is kind of a tough call for us in the sense that that uh We have some guidelines, but at the same time I think we have to have some appreciation for The the the fact that we need the housing and and so in some respects I'm willing to be a little bit flexible in terms of those guidelines I would like you know as as mark talked to you suggest it is that you pay some attention to the the the design of the of the structure because it's it just seems to me to be somewhat out of place And so my my sense is is is that it would be It would behoove you to to take another look at that That would be my that would be my comment any further comments at this time other than I have to say I've been sat with mark in a meeting for six six half years I always admire and I mean this in a positive way. He's a strict constructions And that starts to push you, you know, I am probably a broad constructionist when it comes to these things And I think we do have to keep In mind this is a transitional area It's something the housing in particular that the city wants And needs and how we put that together Is why all you guys are working on and I suppose and then have to come back and convince us all but I would still Like to see you proceed Keep proceeding with this project All right. Thank you. Um, sure. How do you want proceed with final comments? They call extend the same courtesy to my uh board members, especially the ones who went first So thank you for going first. But if you had any final parting comments for the applicant It'd be appropriate to make them now Sure. Thanks Scott. I definitely appreciate all of the cultural heritage viewpoints that were brought up there Very valid and worthwhile to consider um yeah, it uh I I do only uh, just bring it back to that the idea that I started with The thinking of that that transitional neighborhood that this is actually actually acting I see this project as acting as somewhat of a bridge between The new development the new direction that is being the new mandates that are happening downtown with going into the the extending into the historic neighborhoods around there. Um, and so um I do think that there can be some more thought in terms of materiality. Um and looking at that and you know, of course Um, this is a great package and I look forward to seeing what you're going to take these comments and see what you come back with The colors are definitely worth thinking about as I mentioned before this the softening There's actually one thing that I I did want to mention that hadn't been brought up But there are two options for the fencing Um, which it must be a conversation that's ongoing because you have two concepts um and so uh That is also I mean right there is this sort of a case in point of The two options that you can go with the two viewpoints there sort of with the toll building you go with this very modern clean Um, you know almost industrial look of the concept B with the perforated woven metal Very kind of stark and then you have the more referencing The natural forms of the woven bands of metal fencing Some would look more natural. They've got a more organic feel to them. I think that you know my Preference is for that concept a because it does and I think that you can extend that to the building as a whole of how you can actually Um, bring in the modern feel but reference what's there. I think you're you're on the way. Um, and um Yeah, I think you can you know, I do look forward to seeing what you have But really thinking about how you can be sensitive to both of those You know mandates that you're straddling so Thank you Thanks Adam. I'm going to jump out of sequence real quick because a board member goes like he needs to leave here Beautiful. All right, Henry I'm looking forward to seeing you at the next next level. Um, I know you'll bring it up Listen to all the comments here. You'll you guys are we'll do a good job with bringing it up to to the next level for approvals um I find it interesting 526 b street. Um, it's only a story and a half lower than what you're proposing So I'd like to see some more visuals when you come back to us bring us some perspectives from The other side of 526 looking to the northeast Because that in the foreground I think will will help people see From a perspective we play this game all the time, you know, it looks differently from one side to the other so You're showing us tonight it from the north looking southeast So that's going to make the building Adjacent to it shorter looking in appearance. So I'd like to see it in fairness on both sides of the building and and in relationship to the um the parking garage in the back because that is a backdrop that that that springs off um a height that I think maybe a cultural heritage board will see that it's um a little more palatable so That's I think what I wanted to add to This evening. Good luck bring it back to us soon. Thanks Henry drew Yeah, I'm gonna I'm really I'm excited. I'm actually, you know, I was critical. I think Mitch, but I'm also really excited um I love infill development like Just in general. I think it can be really Interesting and engaging for a city um and yeah views from like other areas in perspective to Really showcase that maybe it's not as big as we think it is Because maybe it isn't But one thing I did want to kind of point out made some question. We were kind of Looking at this. So we pulled out the city gis map and the santa rosa St. Rose neighborhood association boundary is different than the historic district boundary found in the zoning code And so actually this property is not in the boundary for the neighborhood association But it is in the boundary of the preservation district kind of a weird little Wrinkle I think that's I think that's an element and indicative of kind of the place that you find yourself Serving two different things and in many ways, this isn't a resident It's not currently a residential property, which is why it doesn't live in that neighborhood association But yeah, I'm excited and I I want to push you guys to to really create some amazing architecture Because I think you can and you're capable capable of that. So I'm really looking forward to this coming back. Thanks Yeah, and the final comment I would make and It was spurred by comments on the cultural heritage board Regarding the setback of the front of the building is that the southwest corner is pretty stark on the architectural elevation and and being that the neighboring property is set back a little bit and it looks like that first floor is more of like a Deck or something that people Gather on just softening that side so that it It's not a setback per se, but it's softer for those people that are directly adjacent might go a long ways to Helping them mitigate the fact that it doesn't have a full setback so That'd be my parting comment with that. I want to thank you for a lovely presentation very comprehensive and Again echoing our board members fellow board members Um Like to see you back soon so thanks And thanks for the members of the public that spoke earlier and those of you who are going to be following the project So next up on our agenda is board member reports Any drb board member reports And check in with your board for any board member reports Anybody I'll just do one. I've been Contacted with st. Rose neighborhood associations ongoing Discussions regarding the caritas village project Is is one also they uh for mostly for the benefit of our other board members is the um Historic tax credit is you know on the governor's desk right now Uh If we can get him to re-approve The historic tax credits it will be a great thing for helping Uh, uh do use adaptive reuse And better use the existing building stock in santa rosa So all right That's fine Good information Uh department reports Seeing no department reports We are at the end of our meeting and I will call for adjournment. Thank you