 welcome guys welcome to classic cast 14 I'm here with tips out baby I'm here with stay safe TV and we got a whole lot to talk about we got a whole lot to talk about here this week in case you guys haven't heard yet there is going to be a classic demo available on the floor at Blizzcon and there were also some alleged alleged classic leaks that came out yesterday and I think this would be something fun to talk about you know it's a legend right but it might be something fun to talk about here today but first let's go ahead and talk a little bit about the last couple weeks of classic cast with with vanilla level designer John stats with team lead Mark Kern what is something that really stood out to you guys in the last couple weeks tips do you want to go ahead and start us off yeah sure I mean the first thing that jumped out at me right away was the chemistry between stats and Kern you can tell that they had a really good working relationship over the years for them just to be able to pick up where they left off and deliver what I think was like one of our best classic cast ever was amazing but in terms of the actual like gameplay and everything we talked about on the technical side the biggest thing that surprised me and it might seem a little minute but it blew my mind it was the fact that the server populations originally Alan Adhem's vision was a 2,500 concurrent player cap on the servers and it was changed later to be a technical limitation but originally 2,500 that's what the game was designed for and I think that has serious ramifications on what we see for classic because as we know 2,500 has kind of become you know considered to be on the low end so we'll see how it plays out but that that blew me away when I heard it yeah for sure I think I think it's funny like the fact that like a lot of people want a lot bigger servers just because of you know things things that we've gotten used to a little more recently maybe in recent years but I think that 2,500 number being the original like designed cap for the servers really kind of tells you a lot about like what would make the server like feel lively or like feel dead I think something at 2,500 would be would be just fine because nobody really knew the original server caps back then I guess as far as the player base goes yeah it was all speculation tips I gotta say you're definitely right like once once they once John and Mark got going like they really started jiving they were just like they were digging memories out of each other it was crazy it was great to just listen to that it was awesome and we we sort of just let them talk about we didn't talk very much this last class cast because they were talking so much and that's exactly how it should have been in my opinion yeah but for me the thing that the thing that stood out the most for me was you know in recent years with wow dungeons and raids have been very hallway hallway boss hallway hallway boss and so it was awesome listening to to John explain why he why he explained design dungeons in a way that made them feel more homey and natural for example black rock depths they have a dormitory they have a place where the where the where the dwarves are sleeping and eating and resting and it makes it feel more like a natural environment moradon is like a natural cave system that has been inhabited by monsters and it's not just like weird arbitrary just like hallway hallway boss like under what circumstance would that dungeon be made in game you know it doesn't seem as believable as an actual environment you know what I mean does that make sense so that's what was cool to me was to hear his philosophy about why they designed dungeons that way yeah for sure for sure I think for me there was a couple things I mean it's kind of hard to to even think about this but when they said wow was almost canceled like that that kind of blew my mind it's like you think about it 14 years later it's you know it's the biggest MMO the most popular MMO of all time I mean it's not even it's no question right I think I think that is pretty wild also something else that was really interesting is whenever they talked about the first expansion you know everybody loves burning crusade right not everybody but a lot of people really love burning crusade I know I do and it was almost I guess originally the original plan for the first expansion was actually a South Seas expansion which is essentially what BFA is you know with Colteras and everything I mean you can even see like there's the the orc starting area they have that quest with a you have to kill the Colteras Marines and the in the keep I mean it's in the game it was in Warcraft right down below ratchet there's the Colteras keep with the Pirates there right below ratchet remember that that's true there you got a watch keep yeah so um so yeah I don't know I think those those two things really for me are what really stand out for sure for sure kind of kind of going forward is there anything you guys really want to specifically touch on from the last couple weeks anything else that you guys want to touch on before we we go to the more recent events I just thought it was a great cast man like honestly we did such a great job another thing that kind of stood out to me was was the whole Alan Adham thing I know like especially Jeff Kaplan is somebody that's a greatly praised in our community and for good reason obviously did a great job the Blizzcon 2005 panel he wrote all the quests stuff like that but to hear how hot like how highly they praised Alan Adham and I think Mark Kern even said something along the lines of it was Alan Adham's vision that produced vanilla wow that was shocking to me too I had no idea who this guy was been covering this game for so long and playing for so long and the Steve Jobs of vanilla wow was just undocumented up until that point so it was cool to hear that too yeah I think that was really cool really really cool yeah it was crazy I mean for me for a long time I've known for me I don't know if you guys agree with this but Mark Kern has been like everyone knows you Mark Kern is like he's in my mind I sort of like put him on a pedestal he's like the vanilla guy you know and so it was really cool considering he hasn't done a podcast or a video about vanilla wow maybe ever that I'm aware of it was really cool to sit down never it was really really cool to sit down here I'm just kind of decompress about it that was really awesome yeah for sure so let's let's go ahead and move on forward guys let's go ahead and move on forward to the more recent stuff right something that a lot of people are very very excited about I know certainly all three of us were really excited about it was the fact that there is going to be a classic demo there is going to be a playable classic demo on the floor at BlizzCon it's something that a lot of people were really really hoping for a lot of people were really hoping for that you know in terms of speculation and then just you know the whole talk since the classic announcement is like it'd be really awesome if we got that but not only that I think it's kind of crazy that they're taking it like out of house basically and they're allowing people to to play it and try it out and do the demo from from home with a virtual ticket I think that's something that I think that says a lot to be honest not just necessarily about not necessarily about like you know what they're doing or all that but it says a lot about how far along they are in development how confident they are in that it's gonna gonna work it's probably gonna be a little bit of a stress test but I don't know I think like it's a little bit of confidence there which I like yeah I definitely think a lot of people would have speculated at some sort of playable version on the BlizzCon floor but to actually be able to bring it home and play it for six days or five and a half days from home like I didn't I was blown away by that that's crazy that's that is that's phenomenal yeah and it's available right now I believe on the downloadable servers you can't download the game but it's there in the patch notes and the crazy part about it I think back to what John Stath said when we interviewed him he said best industry practice whenever you have something complete it's usually put on display like six months later so there's a big chance they've had this demo pretty much ready to go six months ago and I can only imagine what that means now I mean God knows if they're playing an alpha internally if they're doing something now maybe the game's done who freaking knows but I think it's yeah yeah it's a good sign man it's a really good sign and to add to that both John and Mark with the within our last two classic house they were not very optimistic about classic wow releasing anytime soon they thought it was gonna be maybe 2020 or 2021 so the fact that you know things are coming along so smoothly that we're having a play at home demo very soon like 30 days from now 32 days from now we can we'll be playing a demo of classical on our computers at home that's a crazy thought that to me shows how seriously Blizzard is taking classic about development and how fast they're pushing it along I think it is a very very good sign yeah get wrecked John just letting you know okay yeah and yeah just to just to like piggyback on what tip said is current also mentioned that Blizzard historically is kind of like kept all their stuff kind of close to the chest right kept their kept their cards close to the chest and if something is ready and like not just industry practice but Blizzard for sure really emphasizes this is like if they tell you something that's not necessarily what they have done at that point that's just what they're willing to tell you and you know we speculated that a little bit with the with the water cooler right it's like they're probably farther along than this but this is just what they're willing to tell us and could be another case of that here right with the with the demo and them pushing it out for a for a little testing period for the week after blizzcon which is really really awesome for me I mean that's that's the most exciting part is the fact that they have something not necessarily that we get to play it I don't know how much content there's actually gonna be on this demo I don't I don't think it's gonna be anything crazy I mean they they said they specifically stated that it might that it's gonna be like two zones right they said it's gonna be two zones so people are saying maybe it's it's gonna be like Westfall and the Barons maybe and there's gonna be like a few talent points that you might get to spend is what Ian said I believe let's go ahead and read the quote so they said players will have a chance to explore and enjoy a limited questing experience through a pair a pair of classic early level zones one horde and one alliance and experience firsthand our recreation of the original Azeroth they mentioned on on the video the five minute video they released Ian said you can put in some talent points and he said you maybe you can kill some quillbore and some defias so in my mind I'm thinking Elwynn Forest maybe Westfall and Durotar maybe the Barons I'm really not expecting much but ideally the ideal scenarios if we can level 1 to 20 and I don't think that's what I think that's way too much content I don't think we'll get that much but if they love us if they let us level 1 to 20 that would be crazy like that would be dream scenario yeah yeah that's a lot of gameplay dude and vanilla even 1 to 10 1 to 10 and vanilla will take most people I would say people that have never played the game probably a five hours people have played the game it will go a little faster than that much faster than that but in general like five hours nine classes that's like 40 hours of content man which is pretty freaking good if I say so myself plus you get to see it on the other faction look at the end of the day I'm very happy with the demo what they're doing the fact they show us the talents shows that will finally get to see which talent points you know system they decide we're gonna learn a lot about you know did they update the graphics they not update the graphics how do we access the game from battle net is it you know are we gonna be able to right-click and add friends of the opposing faction I think a lot of this stuff will be answered at least presented to the players and I think that's part of the reason why they're doing this yes the stress test yes great opportunity to gauge interest but also I think they want to see the players initial reaction to how they've laid the game out I think they just want to a little bit of a litmus test to see if players really like this or not or they should scale back maybe some of the adjustments that they may have made do you guys want to talk about so we didn't plan on talking about this but this is just a thought that I had as testers playing the demo what are we looking for are we're so we're looking for new new textures new shading new lighting we're looking to see what debuff limit they're using that's like that's the big thing on my mind how many debuff thoughts are there what do you guys think else yeah I mean I think I think those are some big ones that you mentioned I would look at the UI right see if there's any any notable changes to the UI I assume you know a lot of any any sort of UI updates that I would expect would probably be in the line of potential texture updates like increasing the resolution of textures you know like we've talked about we've almost beat it to death right how much everybody has talked about like what they you know they did a lot of people don't want to see updated models some people do but I would say the majority of people who've been involved in the classic community and have been excited for classic for a long time or hoping for classical for a long time would like to see these old models be preserved in in in wow classic so yeah that's you know pretty much that yeah I mean I guess I've done this sorry tips I'll let you go ahead I was just gonna say the first button I'm pressing when I log in is escape and I want to see all of the options I want to see if there's a shop I want to see if there's you know what what are the new interface options are like you said graphical setting stuff like that as fan anything that would you know differentiate the game from what it is today and yeah the smoothness that like that's a big thing for me like how smooth is the game going to be retail is a lot smoother than vanilla in terms of like moving your character around and like panning and stuff like that view distances are a little bit different so just the overall smoothness fluidity and responsiveness of the game is one spell queuing yeah like all it's just the whole feel of it yeah these are kind of I was gonna say if you're running a 1.1 to client you can actually open a console command window and you can manually enter in improved graphics commands and it makes the game look way better but it's not available within the within the base graphics UI within the interface I mean you can't do it in game you have to through a console command so maybe those like when they say updated textures and graphics that might just mean integrating those into the interface I don't know but you you can just naturally as the game was back in the day if you if you tweak it you can make vanilla wow look very very good without doing anything too crazy yeah I think so too I think I mean crap dude as it stands and I've said this I've said this plenty of times before but wow was kind of the first MMO in the current generation of MMOs so you had like the EverQuest the Dark Age of Camelot astronauts called you had all these other games right you had all these other games and I feel like there was like a there was a big change in graphics not just for MMOs but for a lot of games kind of around 2004 time where we saw we saw wow I believe that's the same years like Source Engine came out for like Half-Life like I remember that being a year where like graphics became like way better and I thought with wow I was like you know what the graphics for this game aren't as good as Dark Age of Camelot that's what I thought at the time but it kind of has this like cartoony timeless feel to it to where it's still like I still think it looks good but if I go back and play Dark Age of Camelot now I don't think it looks good but back then it's it's very very weird it's very very strange but I really think that vanilla wow just kind of looks good as is it's held up man so much every time I go back and watch an old vanilla video I'm what you know you don't expect much if you haven't looked at it for a while but every time I relook at I'm like wow this game it really has held up very well yeah open up any other game from 2004 including Halo 2 any other game and you'll just be like wow this just looks so much better than any of these other games like it just really held up for sure let's see some other things that they that they mentioned about the classic demo mention it mentioned Quilbore and Defias right so that's kind of like we know when we're talking about speculation of where these two zones could be that's where like Westfall comes from like some of the Defias there outside of outside of Deadmines and then the the Quilbores and the Barons so it's just I don't know what are your thoughts on that I was gonna ask you guys if you were to put your money where your mouth is what would you bet the content as we get on the demo I mean personally I would it's so hard I think it'll be very limited I would bet you can play a human or an orc and I bet you will be able to level 1 to 12 in the Endurator or Elwin I bet that's all you ability to do 1 to 12 maybe you mentioned putting in a couple a couple talent points that means more than one everyone knows you get your first talent point at level 10 so obviously you'd have to go a little bit higher than 10 to have a couple of them and really if you really tried you could get another one or two levels out of Elwin Forest for example if you were grinding mobs or you did every quest in a zone you can maybe get to 11 or 12 maybe 1 to 12 in Elwin Forest Endurator what do you think yeah I think you kind of run out of quests at that point and in Elwin Forest at least I mean I have more experience playing Alliance and Horde for sure but I think you'd kind of run out of quests and I don't know if they would do the demo like that right where they would it wouldn't be super straightforward or it's like here you go you're here do these quests you can grind mobs and stuff if you want but if you were to sit in Elwin and they were just to let you got like get as far as you possibly can in Elwin I think that'd be funny I think it definitely would have hogger raids and like it would be great it would be it would be funny but I just don't know if that's what they would do right yeah and it's weird like when you say quillbore and defias I don't think Durotar in Elwin like defias there's defias in Elwin but the quest associated with the defias there's the red bandana quest but that's not what I think I think I have cobalt when I think Elwin to be honest yeah me too and yeah and defias okay Westfall the entire zone is based around that story and then same thing with with Durotar I don't think quillbore I mean I think Barren's quillbore but obviously there's some quillbore quests and Durotar but it's not the first thing that comes to my mind so I'm not sure if that was intentional or if Ian forgot a little bit or that's just what he associates it with but when I first read it I was like okay maybe they put you in Barren's crossroads and maybe in Westfall and you're level 10 already and you go and you do a couple of quests you get a level or two and that's it I don't know I think would be a far more intuitive just to start you off as a fresh character in Northshire and in Valley of Trials but it just it seems very odd to me that they said quillbore and defias because I don't I don't attribute Elwyn or Durotar to either of those things really well yeah I'm not sure they'd start they dump you off at level 10 I think it's counterintuitive like you said and also I think having that moment of watching the human intro cinematic you know the humans and the defias and then you load in and you're at Elwyn forest and level one you see all the level ones around you like that's a very iconic moment yeah right and I don't think they'd want to lose that like that's that's that's something I think that they would want to give to players again yeah I just think the combination of everything they said doesn't really like line up yeah like to say like a couple talent points and then to say only two zones and it just makes the most sense to start everybody at level one and just like give them Elwyn forest to do whatever they want or give them a Durotar to do whatever they want now how far does Durotar go as far as levels because that that's like I like get I like anytime I've played horde I've just kind of like moved along I haven't really like screwed around too long in there depending on the quests you do 11 or 12 but depending on the quest you do basically okay so I mean that's what that's what it could be too then I mean who knows I've always tried it I mean I think the farthest I've gone in Elwyn is like level 10 I don't think I think I probably could have gone to like 11 or something but that'll be very interesting that'll be very interesting to see how it pans out yeah and it's strange like one of the reasons why part of me feels like they might start at a later level I mean do they really expect people playing on the blizzcon floor to sit there for like five hours to get to level 10 you know what I mean like there's no way you're getting to if you're playing at blizzcon on the floor and you're starting at level one there's no way you're getting to level 10 period like it's gonna take you at least the most seasoned players an hour and a half to two hours at least and that's assuming you know there's dynamic respawning and no one's taking your mobs and stuff it seems like a very steep requirement for those of you that are unaware with like leveling quickly and vanilla wow if you have like a two maybe two and a half hour one to ten time that is phenomenal as far as going to 20 we talked about leveling one to 20 on the demo if your speed level it might be nine or nine and a half hours if you have a sub 10 hour one to 20 that's very very good so the average gamer it might take you 20 plus hours to get one to 20 right I think that's just way too much content for the demo I think I don't know yeah I think I do think this everybody who has a blizzcon ticket also gets a virtual ticket if you have like a physical ticket then you also have a virtual ticket right so they're going to get to play the game whenever they get home I'm sure they're going to have like almost like stations they're gonna have a bunch of stations set up and they're probably gonna have people staffed to like help people log in with their actual accounts so they might get like a 15 or 30 minute like that's their turn to play even that's a long time honestly to get to play for like 15 or 30 minutes so that it's probably just gonna be like you can sit down maybe even 10 minutes and like create your character and run around a little bit but it's on your own account so whenever you go home you're gonna be able to play on on your own account you're gonna have that create a character created maybe I don't know that's just something that's the real W that's the real winners being able to play from home like I think you're right on the doubt on the on the blizzcon floor if we can play for more than 15 minutes I'll be shocked definitely if you play more than a half hour I'll be very surprised I would bet money they'd kind of shuffle us along I was thinking to be really funny that considering the content will probably still limited to have like a demo gold farming contest whoever can farm the most gold by the end of the demo would win something you know just like some way to make it fun and competitive I definitely think there's good I definitely hope there's gonna be ways for like communities like do events and stuff like even after blizzcon like for the next couple of days after I hope it's not like super sharded I hope some people are suggesting it could be a solo player experience I don't know about that I certainly hope not but I hope there's gonna be a way to like get everybody to like roll on a specific server do a hogger rate if it's an L when like stay safe said just do something fun try to kill try to do dark storms quest at like level one or something if you're horrid like that'd be pretty cool my opinion yeah so for those of you guys who don't know tips stay safe and I actually are going for all three of us is gonna be our very first blizzcon so we don't really have a lot of blizzcon experience supposedly I mean this is what Vakir and midnight say that last year it was actually that they had 30 minutes that you could play at the stations and then also they usually have like create a character or like pre-made characters they don't let you log into your actual account so that's just something something to note I guess that they've done in blizzcon's past that we have no experience with so this is a that'll actually be the first time we all get to finally meet in person together so that'll be fun that'll be fun yeah absolutely our stream I don't know that one but something else to kind of talk about is we got the vibe we got the vibe we kind of got the impression from again this this is from John and Mark who haven't been with the company for a very long time but they were there for the original development the game they said that they thought that well actually Mark said Mark said it'll be ready when it's ready and he really he didn't want to speculate on any of that John thought it would be a few years and to your point stay safe to your point to kind of like show like how important classic really is to kind of like get something pushed out before blizzcon right after BFA launched I mean because we're still like a lot of people say like the BFA hype is starting to die down and maybe it is but we're still technically on the up from from where BFA was at in lesion and I think for them to like start pushing out classic stuff and all this stuff is a very good sign and that's what we're all hoping for we didn't know that's what they would do but that's what we're all hoping for so I think it does show that classic was very it's showing the classic as a priority for them and it's important I think that's cool well definitely and I mean if you're one of the people that hates blizzard and thinks blizzard is only doing this to make money I mean that it's still still same thing you know every month that they don't release classic they're losing millions of dollars so their financial incentive is to get it out as soon as possible as well yeah I don't think that's the case by the way I think there's a lot of very passionate people that are working on this project 100% that love vanilla well yeah thanks so too yeah I mean in terms of like release timeline got it's really difficult to say I think a lot of it depends on patch 8.1 when they're planning to release that and I would expect very shortly afterwards like a month or two after that drops is probably when we'll get some kind of beta alpha public testing I think and then depending on how long that blizzard wants to take that could be three to six months that's when we get the official release but 8.1 rolling out probably in December because of all the data mine Christmas stuff in it January February man never know possibly March at the latest yeah you never know now they surely are gonna make a lot of I'm just because here's the thing and we've talked about this I think all three of us have probably talked about this separately we haven't really talked about it together but when it comes to getting a blizzcon virtual ticket when you get that virtual ticket it would make the most sense to get the ticket for everything that it comes with you get you know perks for every I think for pretty much every blizzard game you get something for the virtual ticket and then you also get access to all the coverage in the streams and whatnot so you know they're definitely gonna make some some extra money I think that's a question they're gonna make a few extra bucks for people that are just gonna buy it for the demo but you want to know something yeah I have to give credit words do I still count down to classic he's in chat posts on Twitter he said if you go to a baseball game and you buy a five dollar hot dog or you buy a hot dog you're not paying the entire you're not paying to take a price for the hot dog you know you got the game plus the hot dog or whatever right so so that's such a great way to phrase it I think yeah that's good that's good for sure good stuff is there anything else that you guys really want to see from the demo I know before we before we move on is there anything else from the demo that you guys what are you guys plans for the demo that's really what I should say you know one thing it just pops into my brain is we need to see if there's an honor tab if there's a PvP window PvP page we can get because if there's an honor system that is actually that has giant implications for early game vanilla so we need to see if there's an honor system honor tab HK capabilities that's huge that's very big yeah I think that's a huge one that's a really really good one we talked about it before right so if they have the honor system put in from the very beginning then there's going to be honor gear and honor rewards and it kind of changes the meta a little bit of how people gear up how people prepare for raids especially in terms of especially in terms of speed running right whenever we talk about a lot of stuff there's so much that we talk about that relates more to the high end and sometimes you need to you do need to reel it back a little bit and realize that there's there's there is a 1% right there is a there is a percentage of the player population it's very small that tries to speed run and push for you know server first and this and that and that that's that's just what they do but that's not quite going to be everybody I do think it does change the meta a little bit for those guys if there is PvP gear in from the start particularly like warriors or melee classes in general having the rank 14 weapons early on is is huge having the gear is really huge and I would say the leveling process to it definitely does I mean people will level level more slowly in farm HK's a certain leveling brackets and I mean as far as like at the way it impacts level 60 gameplay you can have an entire roster full of ranked 14 melee DPS by the time your guild steps into blacking layer when blacking layer comes out that trivializes the content it makes the content more less difficult it definitely does have late game impacts I think also for a new player for a new player who's never played vanilla well you have to worry about learning your class leveling up for the first time you're messing with professions you're enjoying the dungeons if you throw on worrying about grinding PvP it's an honor to and you're worrying about ranking up for it early on I think it I think it is very very overwhelming for a new player I also think for the longevity of classic well the more like hype releases they have that makes classic well more fun okay guys on month four the honor system is out on month six ratting bg's those are like hot events the community can sort of rally behind and look forward to and make content for and just get just get excited for right I hope I hope that they delay it I really don't want it to be out mm-hmm yeah I'm not the same way when it comes with the honor fits when it comes to the honor system honestly like trivializes content it changes everything you do at level 60 I mean if you're a warrior or even a row even a rogue I would say I'm like depending on the class but you start grinding right away at level 60 honor it changes how you approach the game entirely and if you're in a lucky position where you actually get the rank 14 weapons it's great it's awesome you're dominating but at the same time you're not getting an upgrade for like a year and a half so there's that too I mean we'll see you know as when you asked you know what do you guys really want to see I want to see that the servers can hold up that's the big thing for me there's gonna be a lot of people playing this demo there's gonna be even more people playing classic a lot you know we experienced the BFA launch I think you guys had a tough time on launch right disconnecting yeah it was not ideal yeah I can only imagine classics return how much hype that's going to generate how many people are going to be playing I really want to see something special with the servers I hope we don't get disconnected I hope you don't get thrown in cues and I hope that even though it's a playable demo blizzards you know trying to address this issue as soon as possible I'll say this I've talked with this I think in a video and on stream several times and who knows if they'll do this but it kind of makes sense to me I want to know you guys think about it I hope that with the demo you know they might not necessarily make us aware of this but I hope with one demo server they have a 2000 population cap and on another server they have a 4000 cap and maybe one that even goes higher than that there are different variables maybe one server has slightly increased respawn rates maybe one server has dynamic respawn rates they're testing different things this is this can be a stress test and testing different variables which which version of classic wow you know what server type is the most agreeable they're different variables like that and then they take feedback and information which one did the players enjoy the most I hope that they're doing that yeah I think that's really good I think for me kind of this is more this is more on tips tips point I something I feel very strongly about and I think the overwhelming majority of people feel this way as well sharding I really hope that we don't see any form of sharding I don't know it might be they might try to implement something as a one-off thing for the sake of the demo or whatever but I just don't want to see it right I want to see them put it in naturally and just see how it plays out you know I don't like I mean they might try and do something as a pre-question but I would rather them just play it out and see see how it goes I think a lot of people are not happy with sharding I understand what it does for like stability and this and that but I want to see the people that I'm playing with I want to like if I'm if I want to go and find tips or if I want to go and find stay safe and we're all leveling and you know Westfall or Elwyn or Barons wherever we might be I want to be able to go on that server and go find the guy you know yeah I'm just gonna say it I think if they're sharding this game is done on arrival like I'm just gonna say it and there's nothing nothing feels worse than having a guy leveling next to you and he runs 20 feet to your left and he disappears or you're leveling solo and you've killed a bunch of mobs in your area and suddenly you're you're ported into a new shard and all the mobs are respawned because now you're you're in a new shard and now you're like surrounded by mobs imagine that happening in the middle of a murloc camp you're you're just ported into a new shard and just die immediately yeah it would be it would be terrible it would be absolutely terrible yeah the world pvp implications too man but yeah yeah both of those things I remember Stay Safe was doing an Iron Man challenge early on and you had made it to like level 45 or something and you phased in you were in the middle of the quest and you you switch you switch shards or something I don't know what happened but all of a sudden like five giant spiders just like spawned right on top of you while you were killing another one and like the one you were killing disappeared and then these other spiders spawned and just like kill them and it was doing an Iron Man challenge you had to leave this character and then with world pvp one time Savik's and I were running around doing kind of some new school paladin police force stuff and we're chasing down a group of horde and I had not done the quests in that zone yet so as we're running along all of a sudden I get phased into a different zone and I was just like the most like my heart sank dude because we're going to kill these guys and I was going to feel sick yeah yeah who has been trying to make a raid in war mode with your friends maybe you have 25 or 30 people and it seems like it seems maybe like 25 people plus you risk that you risk the possibility of people in your raid in your own raid group phasing off into a different shard you'll have people in your raid group that you can't even play with oh yeah it is ridiculous yeah yeah it's it's such a pain and I think the issue with it and actually somebody posted this on MMO champion a couple of days ago I think he was talking about sharding um it seems to be such a core part of Blizzard's approach to launch days now but there is an alternative and like the alternative is to have more servers with moderate population caps let's say 3000 blizz like population caps and just merge them over time if they start to dwindle the population I mean I think that's a far better alternative far more vanilla ass you know sharding is not a requirement by any means and if you have over population you can have dynamic response at least that's a better alternative than so disconnecting people let me ask you and I don't think this will happen but I've heard this asked before if there are server die-offs and like I said I don't I'm not worried about this but if there are server die-offs would you rather them offer character transfers and you can transfer to any server you want or just merging several small servers together what would you prefer um the vanilla precedent is to do the latter I think right I'm sorry to do the former where they offered people to get off the servers right I think they did merges but I don't know if that was in late vanilla or there were some servers that I remember there were servers that were like dying off and they had to open new servers at one point so like they didn't have a q40 open like well after the like man I'm trying to remember how exactly they did it but I do believe they did some merges I think they did merges also vanilla will continue to grow through its life they were actually making more servers they added new new service throughout the life of no well I would personally prefer server merges I don't ever I don't maybe until like the very last six months of classical like they did in vanilla wow with the next patch I don't want server transfers I don't want that at all I would prefer them merge servers but at the same time there are people there are people who might only want to play on very small servers like that's their ideal they might only want to play on a server that only has 400 active people you know that so you shouldn't I don't know like are you gonna force those people to merge into into a new server or what yeah I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure they did and I know for me like I've told the story before but I used to play on illidan I used to be illidan alliance and then I transferred to Kel'thuzad I believe it was after the next patch I'm pretty sure it was after the next patch and Kel'thuzad was then made my home but I do know that they had server transfers in late vanilla I don't know if they had paid server transfers but I know they certainly had a population based free server transfers to certain servers from from certain servers basically yes they did they added server transfers I think it was with with next patch and you could do one once every six months you had to pay for it and you could only transfer you could transfer from from pvp to pvp or pvp to pve but you could not transfer from pve to pvp I didn't want people leveling on the you know pve carabare servers and then transferring to a pvp server and and killing low levels and stuff like that so they wanted the consistency there look at the freaking attention to detail dude like look how much they were trying to preserve the feel of their game do whatever they can to make sure like people experienced it right and stuff like that um I personally think it's kind of unrealistic to expect them not to have transfer services I wish they wouldn't but I feel like they're going to it's just part of the the bnet services now I hope they don't in terms of like merging I remember there was a wild star post wild star rest in peace pretty soon but the MMO wild star came out like five or so years ago and almost right away within a couple of months servers were dying off and I think there was like a PR press release that was released and in it they said the reason why they weren't merging servers was because of the negative connotation that has like it makes it seem like the game is dying in the case of wild star the game was dying but like I think it's just kind of like a an optics thing where it makes it seem like the game is dying it's it's not necessarily good for players you know feeling that way and and yeah there might be players on servers that don't want their servers to be merged I rolled on a 400 pop server because I don't want to be grieved or because I want to experience classic well like a solo experience I mean you know how are you going to take that away from somebody I think if they open up and say hey guys listen classical I was going to launch and we're not sure exactly how many people are going to play so we're going to make too many servers we're going to have overflow servers and down the road we will very likely have to merge servers I think if they if they open with that I think that optics thing is is negated what do you think about that I agree I hope they open with it I freaking I hope they're cognizant of all of this like this is one of the biggest things personally like sharding will destroy classic wow you said dead on arrival dude I'm right there with you like if they implement sharding and it's it's implemented beyond like the first five levels of the game it is DOA for sure now here's the thing with sharding it doesn't actually change the majority of the end game content as far as battlegrounds as far as raids go it doesn't change the content but the problem is is this isn't retail wow this isn't bfa this isn't legion and it's I mean it's a world of warcraft and it lives up to its name it's about the whole entire experience of the game and I check it out a lot of people feel really strongly about yeah I agree it depends on how many people they let's say they have sharding it depends on how many people they allow for shard let's say they have it in vanilla wow you have you guys seen videos of epic you know world pvp battles it's 200 alliance first 250 board it's crazy or black mountain battles or you're or just running from thorium point flight path with your guild 40 people down to black rock mountain in retail wow you can't do that you can't you can't have a red group before you like do you you run the risk if you're in war mode or something you run the risk of just half your rate phasing out you would never be able to have this world boss battles sharding like you cannot have that with sharding it's impossible yeah like please no pleasure please please no yeah I think you know I think everybody's kind of hoping for the best there and like I said while it doesn't change like the the end game like instance content it still does change the feel of the game throughout the entire course of the game and even stuff like world bosses and world pvp and stuff you know yeah I think I think it's not good I think it's really not good um is there anything else you guys want to talk about with demo I know like I already asked that but we just kind of kept going before we uh before we go on to the uh alleged alleged leaks that came out the other day legit leaks yeah I think this is let's talk about them dude yeah I just have one more this more of a question for chat because I tried to find the answer to this question um the issue with the demo uh and we've kind of talked about this off stream a little bit the issue with the demo it seems like it goes live at 10 a.m pacific time based on the release and I think that's the same time of the opening ceremony does anybody know or anybody that went to blizzcon have any experience with these demos is there a chance that it goes live for people at home before it goes live at the actual convention center I just want to throw that out there real quick if anybody knows that but yeah yeah that'll be that'll be interesting to see how uh how exactly that plays out um I'll tell you what the demo announced um and let me give a little bit more perspective with like the whole $50 ticket thing like so people so I was able to get a hold of three blizzcon tickets what four or five months ago and I and we were going to buy them as a group for classcast we're all going together it's going to be great and so I was just luck of the draw I was able to get three of them and I didn't even know that I was getting virtual tickets we got bonus virtual tickets with our physical tickets and so for people that have already bought their tickets their virtual tickets or physical tickets in the last couple months um this demo thing we just got it's just like a bonus loot we just got bonus loot for it so yeah like we've already had it but I will say with the announcement of this demo virtual ticket thing um I might cut my trip short I might fly back Saturday night so I can come on and play the game you know going to blizzcon is kind of bittersweet now can you imagine being on the blizzcon floor all the freaking computers are taken and you've got to wait in like a 10 000 person line and everybody else is playing the demo at home that would suck that's the big fear honestly yeah a lot of people have been asking me like are you going to stream the demo and I'm like well I will but probably not till I get back home for blizzcon I mean it's just like you know it's just the nature of it I guess but um it'll be good it'll be fun it'll uh it'll be something very very uh something to look forward to for sure so let's talk about this leak uh alleged leak again and first off before before we even get into this right this is something that's more fun to talk about it's from some random guy who posted on the forums uh he posted like I saw the the EU forums the german forum I don't know but it was it was a german post where basically he talked about this and that like okay this is what somebody who works at I believe you said Activision who's like somehow involved with blizzard told him through this means and he's seen this for all we know it could be like a load of bullcrap right and more than likely it probably is but um it is it has been news in the community over the last 24 hours so I think it'll just be fun to talk about you know how how we feel about uh or how we would feel if these alleged leaks were true um but yeah I think uh I think surely this is something that you got to take with not even a grain but maybe a whole bag of salt so it's just gonna run those things that more than anything it's fun to talk about um I'll go ahead and I'll go ahead and read off the bullet points and then we can go from there uh the bullet points were classic why I was in a pre alpha state mostly all the quests are done they started working on dungeons and battlegrounds recently uh 17 devs are working on the game two former devs for assuring authenticity uh they don't think there will be a long beta phase uh maybe a two week open beta uh the only changes that they foresee are improved textures and spell effects but still using old models improve view distance and color blind mode battle net will have some restrictions on pvp servers eight servers per region those eight servers would be four pvp two pve one rp pvp and one rp pve uh known game shop to start off the game um sub will be included in retail wow or you pay less for classic only the launch will be around april or june 2019 and that there will be an announcement and gameplay at blizzcon which that already came true and that's kind of that last bullet point is really kind of what I would say set fire to this thing is the fact that they set it two days prior to the actual announcement but yes that that part's already come true right yeah that part's already come true but that's not really it's a good guess right it's a good guess but that's something that we like people have been talking about for months like hopefully this happens you know so I think more than anything this could just be like a really well thought out thing but um let's go ahead and talk about it right they they say classic while I was in a pre alpha stay mostly I posted on they've started working on dungeons and battlegrounds what are your guys thoughts what are your guys thoughts on this just as a whole let's start off as a whole what are your guys thoughts on this do you want to do total thoughts at the end what do you want to break them down okay let's break them down first yeah let's let's do that let's start with the source let's start with the source okay this like when I look at leaks I started the source yeah kind of work my way back so just for context here okay a lot of people group Activision Blizzard together they are technically one public entity but the way both of these companies operate is very different there's very little Activision oversight on Blizzard and vice versa I would be I would be very very surprised if Blizzard had like a slew of Activision employees just hanging out at their HQ every day peeking into the classic wow room like you know what's up guys what's the update you know what I mean are like taking a head count on everybody in the in the freaking room developing um that the Activision offices are in Santa Monica California the Blizzard HQ is in Irvine California it's about one and a half to two hour drive between the two if you live down in Southern California what I'm talking about and um and for whatever reason somebody at Activision if we're to believe these leaks somebody at Activision drove down to Blizzard HQ for whatever reason somehow got the clearance to go into the classic wow dev corner let's call it did a head count of everybody in the room then hit up his home in in Germany he's like yo dude Shiza's going down 17 developers working on classic wow blah blah blah you know and then that guy posted to the forums ah you know I don't know that that's you know I mean to defend a leak and I'll play devil's advocate if they're making classic wow they're making this game in how many what 15 maybe 20 different languages so this is an international game um and emails exist they don't have to drive down I mean I'm sure this information is probably it's spread throughout some people that you know have signed NDAs and on top of that um I mean I'm not I'm not sure about that I imagine that Activision does have oversight as far as release dates and demos and alphas and betas because you have to imagine as a company like this they line up their releases with other Activision products or other Blizzard games so it's all very well coordinated so I'm not I'm not sure about that the granular information eight servers per region 17 devs working on that project and like for me it's about security clearance so like if you've ever worked for like especially like larger companies if you've ever been like a pencil pusher in a large company you know that there's like a lot of clearance issues like big corporations they only want you to work on what you're working on they don't want you know what's going on outside of your scope and I know that Blizzard operates in a similar way like people on the Diablo team have no idea what people on the wow team are doing have no idea what people on the Hearthstone team are doing the only time they all kind of get the inside scoop is when there's something ready to present and usually it's only a little bit in advance I mean it's not and that I mean I just I I can't see somebody at Activision being privy to such granular level data and you know 17 devs working on the game plus two former NAS devs working on it to even know that eight servers per region and the breakdown of server types for PVP to PV I mean somebody said to memo that was like yo guys this is the server breakdown this is this is exactly how many servers we're having it seems a little bit far-fetched to me personally it could be true I'm not I'm not saying it's not true but it seems a little far-fetched I mean what what I would say even at a higher level than all this like like any random jackass can just go and like make an account and post on the forums you know what I mean like and anybody could like dude maybe it was me maybe maybe I did it maybe I went and threw a bunch of words into Google Translate in German it was me no you know it could have been anybody right and they could have just made up all this stuff and and and said all this stuff and I don't know I I I think that alone like without like actual like names and real sources um it's just hard to put any stock into this but again we're gonna talk about it anyway because it's fun right let's look at this from the from the point of view of it's fake but are these things realistic could these things be true what what yeah let's look at it that way okay so the first one classic WoW is in a pre-alpha state mostly all quests are done they've now started working on dungeons and battlegrounds what do you think I that wouldn't surprise me yeah to be honest that would not surprise me at all um I mean think about it what they said in the dev water cooler with they were they were already working on a third prototype right they said first prototype this second prototype this and then going forward right so they're working on third prototype and this was what about three months ago I think this was about three months ago and then that's what they were willing to tell us then kind of going along with the thought of like Blizzard playing their cards close to their chest and we know what are they willing to tell us it would not surprise me if that was the case if that it already was in some sort of pre-alpha uh friends and family whatever right that that would not particularly surprise me um is it likely no I think it's just as likely as it is unlikely but uh it wouldn't surprise me it's educated guess like I think that's again going back to the dev water cooler update that's more or less what was implied they were in some kind of internal testing period um you could call that a pre-alpha you could call it an internal alpha uh it wasn't a big lead to suggest that I think if you ask the vast majority people including the people in the chat right now where did you think classic WoW was in development a week ago people would probably guess some kind of internal alpha sort of thing you know again derived from the dev water cooler update I think they might be actually a little bit further beyond that like he specifically says pre-alpha I think they might have an internal alpha going and I don't might be like semantic difference or something like that but um I do think by the fact that they are releasing a demo to the public and by the fact that Jon Statz said they typically release something six months after it's already been completed I think they could be 20, 30, 50 people could be playing this right now friends and family who knows I mean the possibility very likely it could be friends and family I mean all of us actually with BFA it was like six months ago or seven months ago we got alpha access alpha invites to BFA and the game was definitely there like a lot of the quests were there um the game was far along obviously it wasn't finished and I can tell you playing on the BFA alpha what we weren't able to test were battlegrounds and dungeons we were able to do quests so that sort of that makes sense to me but the pre-alpha claim here technically everything that comes before the alpha which is a lot of work is pre-alpha so it's a very big it's a very big like it's a safe thing to say that you know what I mean yeah it's not specific enough and it sounds somebody said something in the chat I think uh let me see if I can start up and find it oh yeah it's uh this is said by Leafley26 it's believable enough that sounds like it's true and I think that's what a lot of people that's that's what makes a really good fake leak if it's believable enough that it sounds true usually people kind of pick up and run and run with it but yeah I mean technically I wouldn't surprise me wouldn't surprise me yeah uh I think the next point the 17 devs are working on the game two former NASDEVs for two former NASDEVs for assuring authenticity I think that's that just seems maybe maybe it's the translation maybe it's the translation but to me it's kind of ridiculous that you'd bring in a third party to verify something that you made yourself you see what I'm saying like Blizzard made the game like it's Blizzard's game so why would you bring in a third party for specifically assuring authenticity like I don't know maybe maybe it is mistranslated uh that and that's that's kind of my it would uh it would have to be because I think that just sounds absurd like I totally believe it that sounds I totally believe that they that they have those two people on the team I'm gonna they might be unpopular I totally believe it let me read something here for you guys give me a minute here this is from April 4th 2017 this is a J Allen Brax interview right okay he was asked has Blizzard maintained a relationship with the people behind the unofficial legacy servers I know the Nostalgia guys visited Blizzard HQ at one point J Allen Brax says we've talked to Damon and Viper the leads for that project a handful of times since that visit follow the question do you see them being more heavily involved in WoW Classic he says J Allen Brax we would welcome their involvement for sure Damon and Viper I think one of one of the challenges is that they're both French so there's a little bit of a visa concern but we'd be open to it they're very passionate and strong Blizzard fans clearly so I think I actually this sort of might lead to the idea that this is a faked leak because J Allen Brax is talking specifically about two Blizzard or two Nostalgia developers if I was gonna fake a leak I look for something like this and and mention to and it's sort of like a breadcrumb kind of deal you know yeah but but here's where the story gets crazy and get those Illuminati emotes ready in the chat so last night I spoke to Nano from the Nostalgia team he was one of the five people that was invited to Irvine to present a Blizzard all the Nostalgia stats and stuff like that and Damon and Viper were of the five as well as Tyriel and Athelian and of course Nano and what Nano told me interestingly enough I asked him is anybody on the Nostalgia team working on Classic WoW and he said I've kept up with Athelian and I've kept up with Tyrell and they are not working on the project now Damon and Viper on the other hand who were specifically mentioned by J Allen Brax here in the interview stay safe mentioned Damon and Viper have gone MIA and they went MIA about a year to a year and a half ago now the reason why they went MIA or the reason Nano told me that an MIA was unrelated it had to do with some drama going on behind the scenes but it's all kind it's just funny how it all kind of lines up timeline wise a year and a half ago did they start working for Blizzard I have no idea but and Nano says he's not sure but there you go there you go there's a lot of speculation okay there's a lot of speculation that could possibly be had here uh I mean I would say that it does line up okay but just because it lines up I mean who knows I mean they two guys that nobody has heard of at all two guys that nobody has heard about at all since they left the team they were all in the Nostu meeting together or the the Nostu Blizzard meeting together all of a sudden two guys disappear they go off the grid and then this leak I mean you heard about this yesterday right yes you heard about this yesterday this leak also came out yesterday that two guys two unnamed Nostevs are working I don't know I mean I don't know I gotta take this thing off I gotta take this thing off I mean I want to say like a lot of people are picking apart this assuring authenticity Nostaris like why would they find those guys you have to imagine okay I don't think the the two Nostaris does if they're working on classic wow they're not like in the trenches you know coding and scripting the game right they're not pushing things along but I can totally imagine these people Damon and Viper if it's them are being used as a reference point you know these are people that have spent the better half of a decade digging through old web archive links and alexander and thought plot really looking day to day week to week month to month how spell power coefficients changed how itemization changed on certain items like these people probably know the way that vanilla items changed in spell power like all there's you know what I mean all this stuff all this stuff it changed very frequently and a lot of it might not have been documented exactly was there might not have that and I can totally believe that hey you know they're they're in the classic wow development room hey Damon Viper does this look right that the the the rod of of spell power changed from seven intellect to 19 intellect on this day uh yeah sounds good okay great like just just just as a quick little reference you know like I can totally believe that like definitely paid consultants I see see for me like that seems that still just seems so far-fetched to me because like I feel like they would have this data right I mean we can talk about it like this okay so uh John and and and Mark were a little bit like ify on some details of the game right I mean they haven't worked for the company in years uh they were a little bit ify on some details of the game and I understand how like devs don't always remember everything a hundred percent right they've done other projects and they worked on other stuff in the meantime but it's it's not so much that like the devs like being able to actively remember something like I feel like all this stuff would have been documented I mean you know this isn't a small indie company right I would I would hope that they have all this stuff documented and they've just kind of like had it stored to where they could go back and reference it as far as like looking at the numbers and and the nitty gritty of stuff now tips you said like paid consultants that is something that I could see a little bit more reasonable was like hey what does the data look like like almost like demographic type stuff of you know looking at okay how long did it take the average person to hit 60 on your server like how did this play out how did that play out when you guys made this decision to do this thing uh how like how did you see things kind of shake out and move throughout the world stuff like that seems a lot more that seems like something to me that's a lot more logical to ask them about as opposed to and I could be wrong maybe maybe stay there you're right maybe that's just stuff that got like lost over the years through the patches because it kind of got overwritten but I just I don't know I don't know I definitely agree with us fan like when it comes from a community side and all the the statistics that they released in their post mortem and even stats beyond that that were presented there that stuff is information blizzard doesn't have blizzard has no idea how appealing classic wow will be to the younger generation nostas that that are at least some fragment of that data like you said you know retention rates how long you know what's the average play session of a player all of this information is just not available but it was available on the nos team and for blizzard it's very interesting now that you read that back stay safe the interview the visa thing now believe me I know a thing or two about visas and green cards okay you don't need a visa to travel to the U.S. from France the only way you would need a visa or a work permit is if you were planning on immigrating or if blizzard was planning to bring them on as salaried employees right the fact that Jalen Bragg specifically mentioned the visa thing it means that at some point that discussion probably took place and they were like okay we got to get them visas and stuff like that that might be difficult who knows it's not it's not easy to get a work permit you know it takes time um but there's a lot of issues with international travel especially now but um but yeah I mean uh I think that conversation was had and maybe the result was okay we won't be able to bring you over specifically but maybe bring you on as consultants you know there's an off there's a blizzard office in France guys there's a blizzard office office in Paris so who knows you know what I mean who knows I mean this is something that yeah it's just so like I don't know it's still like it seems so absurd to me but you never know you never know um next thing they don't think there will be a long beta phase and it mentions a two-week open beta I I think that there would be a longer beta phase I think that there's so much to test with this game like in in in terms of like looking how things pan out and with 16 debuff slots versus eight debuff slots and stay safe you mentioned that's like one of the things you want to look at and uh excuse me in the uh in the demo is like if they if they have 16 or eight debuff slots stuff like that I don't know that's that's very um if they want to tune any of the early content as far as like health wise like just like the values because you are going with 1.12 talents in what would be like you know 1.1 1.2 content you're gonna have you're just gonna do more damage your your your class is just gonna be more effective like are they gonna change anything there we don't know that's why I always thought there would be a longer beta but I could be wrong I could be wrong about that what do you guys think this will this leak makes no mention of an alpha it's very likely that they're you know maybe have an internal build or maybe friends and families going on right now but there's no mention of an alpha they could probably get a lot of that stuff done with an invite on the alpha and it would be public like people would be aware of it you know they'd give it to big streamers or whoever else they give it to you right with the guy like they do with bfa um there's no mention of an alpha stuff like you mentioned could be taking care of an alpha uh maybe a shorter two week open beta that would be more stress testy how many servers do we need do we need bonus servers you know do we need to pay for more host like whatever it is you know what I mean um it could it could be believable tips what do you think um I'm not sure if you guys are getting it on your end but sometimes you guys are getting super robotic I think it's discord I think it's the discord servers are crapping out because I've got internet here too and it's doing the same thing for you guys should we all quickly leave the call and rejoin call do you want to try that I don't I don't think it's not that bad on my end okay yeah okay uh yeah you went you went full bender on my end stay safe at the very end there so I didn't catch it what was the question uh what do you think what do you think about about about the the beta like uh just the beta question here do you think a two week open beta short beta phase is uh is reasonable uh it's difficult to tell I think it depends on which philosophy Blizzard goes with the beta they've got two options the way I see it option number one they're fully committed to their vision of classic wow they don't need a long beta they just want to test you know certain bugs stuff like that stress testing server capacity stuff like that then they'll move on option two which is personally the option I hope they take is they want to solicit community feedback on specific things like ubrs sizes like um you know small things that are still considered no changes but changed over the course of vanilla and they want to take their time and test those things and have the community you know give their feedback on those things that's the the approach I hope they take and that would mean a much longer beta for obvious reasons so it really depends on Blizzard I think if they're committed to their design and they're just going to be like okay we understand what you guys want we're going to roll it out um yeah I don't think it'd be that long of a beta but um I I just I hope I hope they just let us test a couple of things at least you know so let me ask you a question I see two weeks here if it's a two week open beta and there's one thought on my mind that's just enough time to get to 60 let's say you can do everything you can do pretty much everything right are you guys going to try to get to 60 in a two week open beta are you guys going to you know prepackage your meals and you know it could be a complete sweaty greasy no life when classic comes out dude like I'm prepared to gain 50 pounds I've got my doctor on speed dial the EMTs ready to go I'm not moving from this chair I'm eating Chinese takeout of pizza every single day whatever it takes dude I mean this let me tell you this DX razor dude we're gonna get to know each other really well when classic comes down so I sure sure why not you know what I mean it's not like I'm moving from here anyways yeah I already gained my 50 pounds so I'm good I'll play a lot of classic let's be sure yeah yeah I think I think with the uh I think with the two weeks I've never I've never speed leveled in vanilla wow I think in the two week period I would like to spend more time testing and stuff than leveling but I uh it's also very beneficial if if you want to speed level to take that time and to figure out a leveling route because whatever you've seen on private servers is not going to be 100 accurate because of dynamic response and I mean just anything else like who knows if the the quest values and stuff that you did like the XP values were right or you know it's it's yeah and that's the thing I mean that's just the big thing with private servers and I think pretty much I don't know I think most people know that that it's not going to be 100 accurate to what it was but um that's the best way to find out is going to be in that beta period yeah and by the way a two-week beta is unprecedented that's why I don't think it's going to happen Blizzard's never done a two-week beta for any game ever um maybe like their last age of an open beta they might have opened it up to the public for two weeks but in terms of closed beta stuff like that I would be very it would be very surprising for Blizzard to roll out a product and be like yeah two weeks of testing then um then you know it's good to go but then again we did that BFA so I don't know man do you know what I mean who knows the next thing on the list here it says the only plan changes again on these alleged leaks the only plan changes are improved textures and spell effects but still using old models improved view distance in color blind mode and the battle net will have some restrictions on pvp servers for me personally we again stuff we've talked about for months improved textures is something that we were probably going to see spell effects I think as long as they are not changing the animations and more so just like increasing the resolution of stuff that's kind of like the rule of thumb for me as far as things that they'd be looking at because like I mean you you want to make it look a little bit nicer without changing the models without changing the animations without this like kind of make it match your monitor because 1080p wasn't wasn't the standard now 1080p is the standard for monitors back then like people are using these freaking like big crt monitors and very few people had a flat screen I remember if you had a flat screen like I remember having a flat screen wasn't always an lcd screen it would they had flat screen like tube tv's like that flat screen crt's for a while too and so I mean like that like whenever people said flat screen like that was like the first thing that would come to mind I really do not want to see new animations or new models I really personally do not want to see that I think one especially because they don't exist in the retail version of the game you can't even go back to the old old models anymore so that's one but also with the with the animations I do think I've talked about it before again animations have have balance implications you know let's say you're making blessing of protection or blessing of freedom more visible it's kind of like a beacon to like hey purge me hey dispel me I think stuff like that's not good colorblind mode I think if you're colorblind then tough luck you shouldn't I'm just kidding I'm colorblind I'm colorblind I'm minor I'm minor colorblindness no I think stuff like that like it's an accessibility accessibility thing I think that's not a not a big issue and then I think battle knight having restrictions on pvp servers is a really really important thing to uh to make sure that they do yeah it's funny you make the colorblind joke I think it was on mmo champion there was a guy he was like you know what with this he's talking about the leak you know what with this like he was being serious by that I check his post history with this colorblind mode this is it I'm walking away from classic route there's too many too many changes I can't play this game colorblind people if you have a disability I don't want you like you know what I mean like oh geez yeah I'm very curious to know what the what the improved test textures and spell effects will be that's something that we need to check on the demo 100 take note of that um but yeah this all seems pretty reasonable to me uh this one at least this bullet point completely agree I mean I made a video about graphics a while back like a long time ago and my biggest argument against updated or toggleable graphics option was if it's gonna take them more time to do it why would you want them to do it even if it was optional why would you want them to take more time to develop classic but now the way it sounds like it's like if they're bringing the game down instead of bringing it up in terms of like the clients and stuff like that if it doesn't take a lot of time if it's something that flip of a switch you can toggle it they don't have to develop anything extra I wouldn't mind updated textures or anything like that but if you ask me straight up I would prefer them not to be in the game um but yeah compatibility 4k monitors 1080p monitors all that stuff it would be pretty ridiculous to assume that Blizzard is just going to be like well screw you guys you're you're playing on what is a 4x3 or whatever it is like it doesn't make any sense yeah I think uh I think I think we've pretty much covered everything there um the biggest bit here piece here is if truth alonette will have some restrictions on tvb servers that's been a hot ticket yeah and we've said before you know cross-factor inclusion is probably it's definitely something that's going to happen on discord and wherever else it'll be texting your boys you'll wake up there's we got some devil sword battles you know what I mean but uh I don't want blizzard to foster it in game I want them to try to shut it down in game and try to stop it as much as possible yeah so I think that's the right move I think that uh basically like blizzard they're it's current year right people people have ways of doing what they want to do but I just don't think blizzard should basically allow it they should it shouldn't it shouldn't be the kind of thing where it's like they give you tools to be able to uh collude and whatnot yeah uh next up we have oh sorry you want you want to keep going no I agree 100 yeah uh eight servers per region for pvp two pve one rp pvp and one rp pve I think the split is fine eight servers is not going to be nearly enough if they're talking about na and eu and it doesn't even make sense like as far as like having the same amount for for every region like na eu ocean I mean what do you guys think about that so I I initially was like whoa that's way too little like obviously but someone it might have been you I think I think one of my moderators nodica told me this that na actually has three regions there's west coast central and east coast and australia might have two or something and russia has over me and europe has over many so there's more regions than just north america you know there's there might be three or four of them even so if there's three that's you know that's 24 regions who knows might be enough like I don't know it like really it depends on how big they want these servers to be if let's say let's let's just imagine that this this information is true that would mean that they have some ballpark idea of how big they want the service to be otherwise they couldn't be giving they couldn't be given be giving the amount of servers that there's gonna be they have to know how big they're gonna be right so who knows like that that would actually have big implications if this is true this is the one that made me just shake my head like all right no no way and the reason why I think that per region I mean when it comes to the game itself you log into world of warcraft right now and you're on na servers you will see on the bottom left hand side of the server list united states oceanic latin america tournament in brazil okay those are the options that you see you will see very clearly that the united states has a hundred plus servers a ton of servers but if you go to oceanic they have 12-ish servers if you go to latin america they only have three servers blizzard is a company they want to min max their cost the same way we want to min max our characters and for me when it comes to expenses why on earth would i supply lower pop servers with more servers than they need and why on earth when i supply uh higher pop servers less servers than they need it would all be variable depending on the size of the region how many people play in that specific region to have a static number of servers per region it seems just completely off it's it's weird so let me let me let me try to like talk through i'm having an idea right let me just try to talk through this i don't think that retail blizzard or retail well i don't have any merged servers before i think their their decision was just to have sharding and phasing so you can do cross servers though i don't i don't think that they've merged them before so that's probably why the server count is so inflated for retail well you mean recently recently right um that's probably why there's you know over a hundred servers in north america because they're they're they're most of them are low pop and you can just do sharding and phasing and go to your friend server that's probably explains why there's so many of them that are very low pop they could have a philosophy with blizzard with classic servers that um they want less but they want them to be higher population like that could explain why they uh because because you know if you played vanilla you understand population is very important people tend to want active servers so the best way to ensure that would make be to make less servers right yeah but that few that few servers i mean let's say they've been split it up east coast west coast central like those for the regions they had in mind um that would be 24 servers for the us assuming they pick 3000 concurrent pops you know what let's say 5000 let's say 10 000 concurrent pops for these 24 servers that's only 240 000 concurrent players at any given time that's nothing in north america i can guarantee you right now on retail there's at least a couple hundred thousand people playing in north america and we're talking about classic launch and that's if they pick eight servers per time zone and they pick 10 000 concurrent pops which they probably won't do it just seems to me like it's a recipe for disaster blizzard has to know they have to at least have some kind of inkling that the demand is going to be very high they don't know what it is exactly but i would be very skeptical for blizzard to come out and say yep eight servers per region you know we'll we'll let the hype build up or something like that and try to make it exclusive i just i think you want to get as many people into the game as fast as possible just to capitalize on that hype rate and i don't know i mean the the thought of like uh is a region like na eu or is a region a time zone it's kind of interesting because like you said stay safe and we talked about before like if that's what it could mean it would make a lot more sense right to have like 24 us or if you count hawaii that's another time zone right but i don't know you know they probably were going to keep the three different time zones and so one other thing that i just thought of if you read through the translated german post that this originates from uh it's not in the ballpoint list here but so in the ballpoint list it's referred to as as regions uh in the translated thing it says eight servers per language just a just a weird thing just by the way um so that would mean in europe you'd have eight servers per language maybe eight for france and eight for germany um but in america it's all gets kind of scoffing because we only speak american over here that's right damn right yeah really interesting yeah i think that's i think that's a big bullet point of like that's a big skepticism one like that's one where like i'm feeling real skeptical about um especially the breakdown like the four pvp to pve this would mark the first time in world of worldcraft history that blizzard has favored pvp players over pve players you know what i mean like for them to give more pvp servers than pvp servers uh pvp servers i and who knows again it could be correct um maybe it has to do with time zones or something like that to make it make more sense but it's just a wishy washy you know it's just another wishy washy thing about this league uh the next bullet point is no game shop at the start but whenever he was translating it when it was being translated to english uh it mentioned like something about an astral tiger potentially uh but potentially adding a shop for like the later on for the for like the later patches or later on in the game um if that shop i don't do i don't want to see any of that like i i don't want to see i i understand like it doesn't vanity pets and mounts don't really change the game they don't they don't really have any impact on the game uh i understand that i personally don't want to see it but what would have an impact on the game is if you can buy like a baron mount or stuff like that that would be totally absurd to me right now the things i don't have a problem with the shop for pretty much is towards the end later on if they were to add like the server transfers and stuff that's that's something that that that's blitz like i mean that's that's what it was in vanilla that's no changes right that's that's what they had so something like that like that wouldn't really mind so this here in the german translation he specifically mentions an astral tiger or you know a spectral tiger um this is actually the biggest piece of information that makes me think this is a fraud and i'll tell you why spectral tigers were a burn crusade tcg item they were not in vanilla well spectral tigers are not vanilla they're they're burning crusade tcg and someone that was going to make a fraud like this um not many people know that a lot of people think it's vanilla wow but it's not um so that that would probably be the kind of thing that if you were making a fraud post like this that would be a big oversight yeah um or you could have secret and find inside information that they're gonna retroactively add in all the tcg stuff to to classic wow in-game shop you know who who knows but that that was something that really stuck out to me yeah yeah again how would somebody an employed activision be privy to this kind of like you know strategic this strategy basically i uh i get probably the cfo mike moraheim a couple of hind executives maybe james brak maybe even has a coast us maybe they know what what they plan for uh for the shop but you know random x-name employee worker b uh will probably not have access to that information at least i wouldn't think so obviously i've got to say yeah when when talking about an in-game shop um a cosmetic shop maybe they add it here's what blizzard would do if they're going to do this they would add it six months or a year after classic wow is out everyone is already very invested they have one or two level 60s they have their pre-made fist they're rated everyone is very invested in the game that is the perfect time to add a shop because at that point really like be really honest if they had a tcg loop shop in the game where you can buy a tiger if they put it in for 20 dollars and a tabba fame and tabba to frost for 15 dollars are you really going to quit the game at that point why you got to give them ideas stay safe why you got to give them ideas man no no you're right you're right yeah to go to go further than that um like it's actually not that much of a deviation from how it was back in the day because back in the day in vanilla wow in 2005 you could you could go on ebay or go to walmart and buy a pack of tcg cards and run the chance of getting a tabba to frame tabba flame or whatever else there was you could buy you could buy an irl loop box you could buy an irl loop box you could buy these things it's like there were cosmetic stuff in the day you could buy um so it's not even that big of a deviation to be perfectly honest what i do i want the shop no but for me is at the end of the world honestly it's not i wouldn't quit the game over it no if it's strictly cosmetic tcg stuff no i i wouldn't like it but it's i'm not going to quit over it yeah cosmetic stuff doesn't doesn't i guess change how the game is played it's just like annoying more than anything i think i i don't want to see it i'm i'd be annoyed by it but whatever right i'm i'm a curmudgeon old man i guess um i'm go ahead maybe i'm a little extreme in this in this issue i personally do think that that cosmetic items do have an effect on gameplay because i think when you can purchase the cosmetic item from the shop it strips a player of the incentive to get gear for purely cosmetic reasons and that's one of the most beautiful things about vanilla the end game sets objectively are more detailed and more robust than the early game sets so part of the incentive to level up is obviously to gain power and get to little 60 yada yada yada but also you look at that guy with that you know helmet of wrath and you look at that guy with that thunder fury and that's in the hand of rag those items just look objectively cooler for at least objectively more detailed than kind of the lower tier items and the way i've seen blizzard use their shop over the years it seems like they leave you know the very unique special mounts just for the store like for example what's what's the vampiric bat called you guys know what i'm talking about the one in retail i don't like that mount it's like the only mount with uh like a wind effect on its wings for example the celestial steed at the time was like the only mount that was like so crazy detailed like you know the stars and stuff like that at the time so i feel like in essence when you make when you give items you make items available to players for money that look cooler than other items in the game you kind of invalidate the work players put in to get cool items and on top of that you take away the incentive for them to one of the incentives to get those items which is to look cool so that's that's where well here's the thing talking about items we're talking about tabards and maybe amounts well and things and things that aren't available in the game right so like if you have your wrath set or your mindset like that's something that's available and like you can earn i i think like okay hypothetically let's say whatever game company doesn't even have to be wow added where you could buy the gear that you have to work the you have to work towards they have to attain that gear that'd be really really really bad right that's like major pay to win that'd be terrible but like in terms of like a cosmetic item like you're talking like what you're talking about is more like um like look at that guy in his wrath set look at that guy in his judgment stand like that guy's a good player he's earned all his gear and it's really tiger look at the guy that's just a tiger like if they put out a mount that looks cool in this visually entire it'd be like you know a dude i bust a lot but here's the thing like it just makes that mount like kind of like you didn't earn it right and like if it's only available like through the the shop like i mean i like i i don't want to see i don't want to see cosmetic items in the shop as much as anybody but like you just kind of like being kind of kind of thinking about it like if i saw a guy with like the gurubashi uh war turtle i don't know just some some kind of stupid random mount like i just like i just paid like 15 bucks for it like okay whatever like it doesn't mean anything to me and in my mind this is only tcg items that's the only way they could accept we do this like let me ask you this if classic wow comes out and they re-release tcg cards you can go to walmart and buy tcg card packs and there's a chance to get a spectral tiger like are you okay with that you're just yes i'm okay with that i'm okay with that anything that occurred during vanilla i'm okay with that i'm not going to argue with it do i agree with it what i do it for my you know in my eyes i wish they never did that but the fact that it was available in vanilla i can't argue against it was there so so then your contention is not so much about the way that it makes people look it's just about the way that you can buy it then right well it's kind of both i mean i do still think that's bad game design i don't like that they added the tcg cards and wow at all i just don't like that idea of being able to purchase something and and have it you know i don't like the idea of purchasing things outside the game giving anybody any kind of advantage either power wise or cosmetically in games but the fact that it was there it's a precedent it's bliss like it would be less it would be more changes than no changes for me to argue that that should not be in the game that's the way i look at it so if you're doing no changes philosophy these are items that were available we're talking pets tabard's mouse how how would you like to see those items be reintroduced into the game as faithfully as they were back in the day so like for example that the diablo pets and the collector's edition stuff sell a collector's edition i think that's fine i mean mimic it the same way it was i think you're going to see a lot more of them unfortunately because i know a lot more people are going to buy the collector's edition this time around if they did that but the tcg stuff for your least tcg cards totally okay with that any service including you know the character transfers for example i can't argue against it even though i don't like it because it was available at some point in vanilla the way they did them back then i would be totally okay with them doing it like that today yeah i mean personally like i said i i just i just don't really care to see it i don't i don't really want to see it i think uh i don't know i i just don't really personally i just don't really care to see it obviously i'm not a fan but i fully expect honestly i this is bliss i fully expect six months to a year we will probably have a shop where they're selling old tcg items i fully expect that and and i'll say honestly i am going to be very invested at that point i'll have two maybe three level 60s am i going to quit the game over people spending 20 to buy a tabard or a pet i'm not it's not good it's not enough to make me quit i think that i think that blizzard knows that and that's why they're going to do it yeah it's tough it's it's tough to argue with that logic man you spend a thousand hours in a game are you going to quit over something like that you'd have to be a very uh you know you'd have to really piss you off you know what i mean yeah i just see kind of absurd um i just i just i mean look here's the thing though it i think it would be a bad idea to do that i think it it would devalue it would devalue all the stuff that people got in the past you know what i think would be really cool i think this would be really really cool is if you have that stuff on on your main account the original and they don't release it at all and i'm not talking about other stuff i'm not talking about oh i got my transmog crossing but i'm saying you have a tcg main thing that was something that was in was that even vanilla i think it was burning crusade was what was the tcg burning crusade i think there was only one vanilla was it was it the turtle i can't remember dude it's been a long time some people are saying no in chat tcg was named vanilla i'd have to double check the turtle was vanilla but nothing else was that's what i remember see like something like that is like maybe maybe then i could like i could justify it but like i don't really i don't i don't want to see any sort of cross cross retail classic stuff i don't want to see any achievements or like like you you got to level 60 and you get an achievement and resell like i don't i don't want to see any of that i the only thing that i think would be like justifiable is if only the people who had them originally like which would only be the turtle i guess in this case i don't know but only if you had it originally then then you get to keep it in classic or something like maybe that but like i i still don't know i mean just just play the game like that stuff to me is like not not that big of a not that big of a deal like just just make it to where they're like they don't have to put that stuff in who knows like stay safe is more talking along the lines of what you could see blizzard doing because like clearly none of us really want this but um whatever so in vanilla there were three loot cards saltwater snapjaw thunderhead hippogriff and lando long shot so there were three loot cards in vanilla wow but the leak the leak mentions just to clarify it mentions specifically a spectral tiger which is one of the things i'll say again that makes me question the authenticity of the leak because spectral tigers were obviously they were a tbc thing yeah two point oh real quick 2.0 pre-patch is not vanilla wow that's like a that's beaten been beaten to death like if it has a two in front of it it's burning crusade it has a three in front of its wrath of wrath of lich king and so on so yeah there's somebody in the chat said that and it's just like i mean come on yeah um the vendor hold on on the vendor for tc g cars didn't come out until 2.2 yeah i mean if it wasn't even in vanilla then yeah i don't know i don't know because i i didn't ever i didn't ever do the tcg stuff i mean it kind of it kind of goes to show like how how much like i don't really care about like stormouts and stuff like that like that stuff is like not on not on my radar like because i i didn't do the tcg or anything like that like other people if they want to do that like that if they did that like that's fine i just that wasn't on my radar at all i guess for the sake of this like because it's because it mentions spectral tiger it's like the possibility of them retroactively adding back tcg or wrath or maybe anything else uh tcg stuff uh onto a shop you know yeah i mean i think regardless of when they were implemented i think the point kind of still stands um if it was in vanilla it's very hard to argue against it you would technically be pushing a change which i think none of us are really trying to do so it's hard to argue against it if it was in vanilla but if it wasn't in vanilla i would i'll be very vocal against it um when i quit the game over it you gotta see at the time but uh you know it's tough man it's tough you definitely don't want blizzard to to cross that threshold you know because you're scared of what it might open up and that's the thing that like people are worried about like and it's it's more like and that's i i i'm an optimistic person i hope for the best but like that that is the thing that people worry about it's like um if if they were to add this it's like oh well like you know kind of give them an inch they take a mile sort of thing that sort of concept that's what people would be worried about and uh i think that that might be something natural that people worry about yeah it's a very legitimate worry i mean i've been very like vocal about this one of the things that made me stop playing on private servers a long time ago was you know nine or ten months ago was people were selling thunderfuries and selling duped characters and selling gold so that's my mindset i've played on i've played under certain circumstances like that and it's very very bad and detrimental so in my mind comparatively if if that's where it ends is just a tcg loop shop if that if that's all whatever goes that's as far as it goes i can deal with that i'm not going to die on that hill you know yeah yeah i don't really like any of that i don't i don't like any uh any sort of like cosmetic in game shop or anything like that i know it doesn't change the gameplay like i understand like i'm a reasonable person but uh at the same time i just personally don't want it um let's go ahead and go on to the next point we were on that one for a long time um so we'll be included in retail wow or you pay less for classic only that is something that and again guys all these all these like leaks or or it's totally alleged like we said before like this could be any sort of like freaking idiot who's just posting on the forums it could be a nobody right but it's something fun to talk about you've been talking about over the course of the last day we want to go through and kind of give our thoughts on it um kind of like a stay safe worded it you said like as as if like these were true how would we feel about them but but i mean we know like it's it's not uh it's it's highly highly unlikely i i think 99 percent chance that they're uh that they're fake but um sorry where was i oh yeah sub will be included in retail why i play less for classic only i think that that makes no sense for blizzard i think that makes absolutely no sense for blizzard now it's very player friendly but it makes no sense for blizzard i i couldn't never see that happening it would be a net loss compared to the alternative which is just charge a retail price for both games yeah like if i'm somebody that hasn't played wow for like five years and i want to come back for a classic um i pay 15 dollars to come back for classic why would you just charge me five dollars just to come back to classic and i have to to offer more insight from this that people haven't read the german translation uh what they're talking about as they said if you are currently playing if you're currently paying for a retail wow sub 15 usd classic sub will be rolled into that you'll get the classic sub for free on top of that if you don't have a retail sub but you you can pay seven dollars and fifty cents or half price for just a classic sub with no retail sub included so sorry i cut you no no problem i and again from a consumer standpoint yeah i think a lot of people would like that a lot but i just don't think it makes blizzard would be really really it would be very generous of them you know what i mean very generous it just doesn't make sense from a company standpoint because if you have all the subs rolled in together now all of a sudden you know when you're talking to shareholders and i was like look how many subs wow has right you talk about wow right not well we have this many classic we have this many retail it's all one thing it's all packaged together it's more money there are some people that just don't care there are some people that just don't care to play retail there's some people that just don't care to play classic but there is going to be a small overlap right there's going to be here i mean there's going to be some sort of overlap right the middle of the vend diagram that will play both and i've talked about it before i'm i'm probably still going to want to play arenas because i i just love to arena but for the most part i'll be i'll be playing classic right and i think i think most of the people watching this are going to be playing classic if not mostly exclusively right i think that having it to where you can only pay a half sub or something and only play classic takes away the opportunity for people to try bfa or to try retail wow every time they log in they don't see like bfa show up on the screen or whatever i think i think that wouldn't be good for blizzard i think that'd be great for i think it's like incredibly player friendly yeah but i i think a move like this is really let's say it's real your nose i think a move like this with a half off classic well sub fee is really about player retention um i think classic wow requires a lot of time and some people are going to get busy you know they have jobs maybe you can maybe you have a couple busy months you can only play five hours a week or two or three hours a week it's much easier to justify to yourself only spending 750 a month on a sub just that you're not really utilizing as opposed to $15 like $15 is a lot more to mentally justify if you're not really you know you feel like you're getting less bang for your buck or less value out of what you're paying for if it costs that much i think it's more about player retention um and preventing player drop off what do you think maybe i mean if that's the strategy behind it like at the other day when it comes to these financial decisions and how they monetize logic doesn't really play as big of a role i think i think what plays the biggest role is just market research they probably they have no i'm guessing they have no stake in it they're just like okay let's hire some consultant or our internal financial team to go and do some research and come back and tell us what's going to make us the most money um and i think say say if you said this i think on the last class guest or the one before uh very well um Blizzard's going to do what's going to make them the most money in terms of like subs i i completely bet on them to do whatever that is um could the logic behind it be maybe it tests better to uh to have people just retain with a with a lower price than to group it up and have people just buy it all in one sub maybe but if you asked me right now if classic was coming out next week and i have the option of paying just 750 for classic or $15 for both i would downgrade my sub to 750 because you know i would only resell when there's like a big bfa content patch or or a new expansion or something like that i cannot see myself keeping that $15 a month um you know just i know i'm going to be playing classic right yeah i mean again that's that's one more thing that like kind of uh i think throw some water on this on these alleged leaks is is it just doesn't really make a whole lot of sense for blizzard to do that um yeah yeah uh launch about april june 2019 that sounds great yeah the sooner the better but leak confirmed that sounds great dude i'd love that but uh like we've said it before i don't think any of us expects it to come out any later than 2019 um i don't i just don't see i don't see it being that early i think it could be earlier than what we think but for it to be that early i think it's kind of crazy what do you guys think i've been saying for six months within 2019 for a long time i definitely think but june is the six month i definitely think that by june we'll be playing full release um one thing that made me feel very good about that is the at-home playable demo i would that caught me off guard i thought we'd be able to play it on the floor but to be able to play it at home um i i think that they're and like john's dad's and martin's said companies like this like blizzard they're typically six months ahead of where they're letting us uh than what they're making us aware of right i i think they're probably pretty getting pretty close to being done yeah i definitely think from from getting done i completely agree they're very close um my only reservation you know looking back on blizzard's launch dates for all their expansions um every single one of their expansions was released between end of august to early december and the only one that got pushed beyond that was burning crusade because supposedly i can't remember the reasoning was but they had some problem delivering by the holiday season so they released in in january 15 or something like that yeah it was like second week of january third week of january yeah so um it's clearly a timing thing i think it's gonna be a timing thing i think they're almost done and for them again it's about what's going to maximize profits what when we how do we align this with our other releases what about patch 8.1 what about possibly new diablo in the warcraft 3 remastered i mean that's yeah that's the main variable i think and actually uh if you've read the german translation um of the original leak he says there's his his leaker who's supposedly some of the works at activision who knows um he said that there was another product that they are timing the classic wild release around but that he wasn't made aware of what that product is that could be a new diablo game that we'll hear about obelisk on it could be a remastered warcraft 3 a remastered diablo 2 who knows what it is but that they are timing classic wild around another unnamed product that we don't know about yet right and i think so so the the final bullet point is there will be an announcement gameplay at blizzcon and and this leak was posted like two days in advance uh prior to the announcement um just to kind of like wrap this thing up um we'll all give our thoughts on kind of what we think about this my personal feeling about this and we kind of just gave our breakdown of uh how the like what we feel about the validity of this right given what we what we can what we know about blizzard what we can assume about blizzard how will blizzard approach the situation does this seem logical does this seem reasonable i do think small burning uh i i do think the only the only thing that really gives this any sort of uh gives this any sort of kind of fire to it is the fact that they he said all this stuff and then two days later they gave it the demo but pretty much like i think pretty much everything else like you can kind of like poke holes in it and this and that but i also think that this could just be like a and it more than likely is a very well thought out troll if people if if people look at this post and everything that i write can they try and take each bullet point kind of like we just did and try and link it back to something else can they can they put on their tinfoil hats and say that daemon and viper are working for blizzard and they're working on classic okay i think that it's just a really well thought out troll personally i mean i i think that that's what it is most likely and it's just it's just more more fun to talk about than anything how do you guys feel yeah i mean if i if i came up to you today and i said hey the sun is coming up tomorrow and then it comes up tomorrow am i a prophet you know what i mean like it's just some things are obvious you can derive them you know from from precedent or looking at interviews that have been conducted i think almost every point in this was almost common knowledge conventional wisdom or the overall community's skepticism i mean that speculation i think that's what people were thinking the only ones that are pretty specific are the region ones and the number of developers working on the team the developer one unfortunately is unverifiable i don't think we'll ever know what the exact number is the region one is the only one where you can kind of point to it and be like okay it's either right or it's wrong and um yeah i guess we'll have to see i don't know a lot of this stuff it could happen i'm not saying it wouldn't but the leak itself overall if i had to bet i'd bet against it personally so my my thought right now is in 32 days at blizzcon between being at blizzcon and more information they'll give on the project and being able to play the demo what information can we look for in 30 days from now to to decide whether or not whether this leak is true or false so i think we can maybe they'll talk about a beta phase maybe they'll say hey we're only going to have a two week beta phase they could say that um color blind mode would be another thing that could be proved correct um restriction battle net restrictions on pvp servers they'll probably speak to something among those lines they might do you think they'll talk to servers per region i don't i don't know about that um there are definitely things that 32 days from now we could we could use to to as a litmus test litmus test to see if this is true or not yeah so i i think uh yeah the things you mentioned absolutely um maybe a chance on the nostep thing i mean if blizzard we're going to drop a big bomb or like a big community bone that'd be awesome like if like two guys come on stage two like developers you've never seen before and like they've got a microphone and they've got the french accent you know what i mean and they're like hello my name is vibe buddy you know like that'd be freaking hog as hell you know it can be really really cool and um maybe they could do something like that if they want to reveal that stuff uh it's it's tough but but i do want to read a quote from me and has to coast us this is exactly what he said about blizzcon he said he's talking about classic here at blizzcon we will have a classic panel digging into the philosophies that have guided us in recreating the classic experience as well as a lot of the technical challenges and a full update on where we stand on the project full update so from from based on what he said full yeah full hope so if we take if we take him you know as word hopefully leaving blizzcon the only question that will remain is maybe the release date or something like that at least that's my hope hopefully we walk out with all questions answered right yeah alleged leak alleged update alleged blizzcon it's all alleged no no the leak yeah the the leak is alleged but uh we'll get some facts um here pretty soon what do you think stay safe i'm just thinking do you think we're gonna have a launch date at blizzcon are we gonna get that information i don't think so i think they might talk about a beta if anything they gave the bfa launch date in february it came out in august how many months is that uh six months so it's going to be november i don't know i don't know if if classics launching within six months of blizzcon they they've they've done that before they've released release date or talk about announced release dates within that time frame i'd have a heart attack dude that's all i'm saying the convention center would blow up dude it would be insane that would that would be an april or may release you know around there which fits into the leak i guess yeah wow yeah be crazy i mean what a what a first blizzcon to go to you know yeah this will this will be really really exciting very very exciting coming up i still just can't believe that within less than 40 days we're gonna be at home on our computers playing a demo for classic wow we're gonna be dueling we're gonna be getting gold we're gonna be looting linen cloth we're gonna have so much linen cloth we're not gonna know what to do with it man it's gonna be crazy dude i can't even believe it yeah yeah it's gonna be really good it's gonna be really fun after everything dude it's been so long gnaws the shutdown bringing it back you think you do but you don't pristine servers and now we're here you know yeah the whole thing dude the whole thing um guys uh here in a moment we we do want to go to uh i should have said this a little bit earlier but we do want to go to q and a uh if you guys want to tweet questions at us at tips out baby at stay safe warlock at s-fan tv hashtag classic cast that's what i'm gonna be looking at um if you guys have any questions we'll go into q and a kind of give our thoughts on stuff if you guys have any questions about anything specific also please do not forget to follow tips to follow stay safe uh tips out baby and stay safe tv on twitch youtube as well tips out baby stay safe tv uh and then my my twitter and my youtube as well uh those links are up on the screen or on the uh they're they're up on the screen or uh you just uh you just type them out too so um let's go ahead and take we'll take some questions from the chat and then we'll go to twitter because i i didn't announce a little bit earlier uh but if you guys want to go ahead and ask some questions would be good do you guys want to talk about anything else before we kind of start taking some questions i guess i i sort of dodged your question earlier um about whether or not i think the leak is true i'll say if if it's false i think a lot of stuff is going to come true i think it's it's it's probably uh it's it's a very good speculation if it's false i mean about that i agree with that yeah i think i i think they basically uh they they probably took like a bunch of stuff that you could infer and piece together and couple it with what some people want and kind of like have like a middle of the road type of like assumption on things i don't know i think it's a really good well thought out troll but i i do think it's fun to talk about and a lot of people have been talking about well what if this were true uh how would you feel so for sure um this question is from farfa ygo long-term plans for classic like five years down the line uh are you talking i'm assuming you're talking about for for us and kind of like what we want to see um i know for me personally i would i would really like to play burning crusade i would really really like to um would get to be playing burning crusade there's been some talk about like post nax content but i i don't think anything like that should be done until uh after maybe like a full cycle or something like that and and doing something different with that but i i know i personally i i loved burning crusade burning crusade was my favorite expansion and i really want to go back and play some burning crusade classic burning crusade is going to be a big big hit i think um and and i i think the condition blizzard will i think it's very very likely that blizzard doesn't on the condition that classic does well if classic does well if they're making money off of it then it's very very likely that we will see classic burning crusade i think that would be very cool yeah i agree on a percent i have nothing to add to that it's perfect yeah yeah i i'll say i am very very anti custom post nax content additional content being added to classic i'm very very anti that like i don't want that at all um i think a lot of problems and implications would arise out of that power creep just just i'm i'm very anti that i will say uh i hope i hope that they continue like they have a two-year classic server cycle and then that server becomes a tbc server at the same time that the new tbc server is out um they offer another classic renewal server i hope they continue to cater to this crowd otherwise we'll be back two and a half years from now um where we are right now without a classic server to play on so i think they have to you know this is pandora's bucks once they start offering new servers they've got to keep offering them otherwise we're just going to be back where we are right now without anything to play i think that with a burning crusade release they have to open up server transfers or character copy that's what i would really hope character copy to the burning crusade servers as opposed to just releasing them fresh because if they release them fresh there's going to be massive population imbalance uh in favor of horde i mean that's just kind of like what what we've seen in terms of like you you got blood elves and you have um you mean just pretty much all the racials like the horde just have better ratios in burning crusade um i don't know like horde paladins like below alliance paladins out of the water it's pretty bad but um i don't know i think i think that would be something that's very uh i think that's very important is to have as to have character copy transfer option as opposed to just releasing them fresh what do you think about just having that original classic server just become a tbc server because that's that's no changes that's what happened back in the day you know venus became tbc i think if they do that i think if they do that then they have to open up another vanilla server that's just like a static 1.12 server that people can just kind of go over to if they just want to play vanilla on the last patch because i i think that's what people want right people want to play vanilla that's that's that's what this whole thing is about it's about playing classic and i think that if we uh or not if we if blizzard goes in and takes that away with the expansion i think that could kind of suck but uh i would say a lot of these people probably wouldn't mind re-leveling and stuff either and a lot of them probably will and play on a fresh server or whatever but i mean definitely looking at private server behavior we see people like the most hyped times of vanilla wow are the first you know the first four weeks or five weeks fresh the fresh meme people i think i think if they just until the end of time until humanity died out and the star and the sun burned out i think of blizzard just kept offering new fresh classic wow servers that people would be eager to play them until the end of time absolutely dude like there's something about it dude something timeless about that fresh launch just seeing everybody compete and stuff like that but yeah tbc hopefully fingers crossed um there's actually a couple of questions here as fan about specifically the classic demo okay interesting maybe so zin some asks how do you all think the classic demo zones will be boundaries and will you personally attempt to wall jump get out and explore i was planning on doing something like just like just going across the whole border i think there'll be a zone wall i think there'll be a zone wall kind of like uh i mean if you if you go along the walls of of uh if you go up to the playgrounds and you try and run up and like try and run over stratholm and stuff and then you just eventually just like you hit a wall or like if you're trying to fly up then you just like you're you're griffin just keeps like like the whole time like i think you'd hit a zone wall i think that they're probably gonna place a zone wall around like the border or something like that i'll tell you when i was playing the bfa alpha i don't know if you guys tried to explore out of the zones that they wanted you to be in the bfa alpha six or seven months ago you'd leave you'd leave the zone and a mist would appear and then a worm would pop out of the ground and eat you you'd just be eaten by a giant worm that popped out really it was the funniest yeah it was the funniest thing uh so yeah maybe maybe something like that would happen in the demo i don't know regular has come out and hammer stomps you that'd be awesome but yeah probably yeah something like a zone wall um do you want to talk about the uh like a speaking of the classic demo in blizzcon do you want to talk about the thing or a little bit later uh yeah i think actually i was going to do that just now uh guys we have talked a lot about a blizzcon uh you know we've talked a lot about blizzcon we've talked a lot about the virtual ticket in the demo and actually something that we wanted to start doing is we wanted to go ahead and do a giveaway we want to do a giveaway over the course of the next couple of weeks and we'll be doing one of these every week so you guys want to make sure to tune in but we will be giving away a blizzcon virtual ticket uh to a lucky winner and let me go ahead and link this for you in the chat how you guys can do this is i'm going to copy this i'm going to paste it over so the the giveaway is there in the chat right now i kind of spam the chat with it so you guys can make sure to see it all you have to do is subfollow sub and follow to to tips myself and stay safe on on the three platforms and on each thing that you follow us on or subscribe to youtube or retweet the tweet that i announced this on i did it right before the podcast in case you guys haven't seen it yet uh you get points for that and uh you basically get an entry for each thing that you do yeah so sub on youtube follow on twitch uh and follow on twitter and then retweet the the tweet that it was announced in so no it's not really fair to donate your kidneys and you gotta donate your kidneys donate your kidneys uh yeah put us in your will and you can win a $50 virtual ticket but basically for you don't have to do everything you don't have to do everything but for each thing you do you get an additional entry you get a higher chance to get it so um so yeah that's something on twitter if you don't have twitter you can still qualify you just you know you get a slightly less percentage of one in basically right yeah so uh yeah that's that's up right now and uh you guys can go ahead and do that i'll i'll post it more time uh there you go yeah you guys have it too but uh but yeah let me go ahead and take a question from twitter uh this was a question for um or sorry this is a question from uh from bryce martin uh if they aren't gonna add wow tokens to wow classic and hopefully they won't do you think they'll crack down harder on gold selling i think that i i i do not want to see the wow token i don't want to see any of that stuff uh it kind of goes back to the concept of like cross-teaming and like collusion and stuff like that people there's there's gonna be people buying and selling gold that's probably something that's gonna happen i don't want blizzard to be the middleman you know i i don't think that's right i don't want them to basically like come in and somebody has to farm it and do all this stuff but uh i don't think blizzard come in and be the middleman and kind of like say like to me that inadvertently kind of says this is okay and uh i i think that's really bad for classic i think gold is is it such a premium and it's such a valuable resource and vanilla like imagine if i started i'm playing vanilla wow and i hit level 60 and i'm like 2000 gold and i'm playing a warrior or a paladin or whatever let's say i got my epic mount i get my lionheart helmet i get norcanite reaper it's not good it's not good you get such a massive advantage over a lot of other people it's it's not a good situation um i think that'd be a bad thing yeah um i don't want the token at all i don't i would rather blizzard uh try and not be very successful i think they'll be successful you have to imagine blizzard has the highest capacity maybe of any gaming company to crack down on this stuff their their their detection probably is very very advanced i want them to try on even if they're not very successful i think that's still better than them throwing their hands up at the air and like you know what it's uh it turns out it's hard to stop gold buying you know what we're just gonna foster it and facilitate it so i don't want them to do it at all and in fact looking at the at the dev water cooler talk from a couple months ago they say uh here's a here's a quote from this at the very at the very bottom additional improvements to classic wow will include modern anti-cheat and botting detection so i think i think it'll be fine uh like i said i want them to try at least and uh just like out of out of principle i want them to try and not foster it i agree with that so i'm absolutely yeah me too hundred percent hundred percent get those criminals out of here dude they're not bringing their best dude let me tell you uh so many questions dude yeah the okay it's from mixum uh is it possible the demo will be offline i don't think so i i think uh yeah discord discord is lagging it's not it's not on our end we have very good internet uh the best internet so so yeah mixum is asking if the the demo will possibly be offline i think that uh i think that's highly unlikely i don't i don't think they'll do that i mean it doesn't really make sense to me right like they're i mean the the original game's not offline right so i don't think they would have an offline version of the demo i agree i don't see what the point is it's an online game i'm not sure i mean you have to ask yourself what this demo is buzzard going to be acquiring information statistical player information are they going to be using this to get information from us or are they not going to be taking notes again information of course they're going to be trying to get information this is a stress test of sorts of sorts i think um if it's offline then they don't get any of that right or not nearly as much so i it's an online game i think there'll be it it's going to be an online demo yeah absolutely um this one comes from atlas on twitter he says what starting zones do you think will be available at the demo we'd love to see dwarf gnome and orctrol i think i agree on the second one um just because of the whole you know pool board thing but gnome dwarf doesn't really match up with the defy stuff what are you guys think i think it doesn't match up but i i don't think it would be a bad idea to have because like you have orctrol together and you have gnome dwarf together so that would give people more more options but i i think the human starting zone is a little bit more iconic so i agree it matches up better i heard that question raise no if you're going to start in duro tar that's obviously where the trolls are on the orcs as well um if i if i had to bet money i think it will be human orc i mean those are obviously the two most iconic races of world warcraft i think it'll probably just be human and orc dude you guys think that they'll they'll put in the other races and it just spawns you in the other starting areas assuming assuming you're in a starting area right we're this is all assumption that'd be nice just to see the ratios you know but uh i doubt it i wouldn't get my hopes up about that yeah i think there's any any chance to keep our demo progress i they've never done that before with any game that they've tested or demoed i i don't think so oh it means like progress like once we finish the demo we'll be able to use that character yeah right yeah highly likely that'd be a very i think unfair advantage this is a good question and and uh kind of to kind of close the book on this if graphics are updated more than just resolution like like higher resolution textures or effects and stuff like that um how much of an impact do you feel that will have and just kind of to to to like i said kind of close the book on this i think that if they're changing animations it has like kind of inadvertently has balanced implications you know more more um more visible spell effects kind of say like hey purge me hey dispel me whatever uh i think the new models would not be cool because i mean you got the new models in the new game let's have the old models in the old game you can't even go back to the old models in the old game at this point so i think maybe that's uh first off i like them i love them i i love the old models but uh i i do think even from like a little bit of a nostalgia standpoint i think that's what people would want to see whenever they're playing wow classic so yeah yeah like like i said earlier actually right now if you if you open up there's a there's a console you can open up for vanilla wow if you have a 1.12 client you can actually if you enter in a set of commands you can make vanilla wow look much better and this these are graphic settings that aren't actually integrated into the interface you have to use the console to do it but the capacity has always been there um i imagine these upgraded graphics and animations will be among those lines things that have always been there but weren't actually just you weren't able to just flip a switch within the game within the interface that's sort of what i'm expecting yeah yeah as us wants the different animations that's that's actually a much bigger deal than people think it is yeah um question from the darker clouds this one's kind of cool what types of troll things do you think blizzard will do in the wow classic demo for example a level 120 hogger or something like that like i can be uh back in the original vanilla beta they they unleashed infernals i think all over the world and stuff like that or like an interatar um blizzard used to do a lot of cool stuff like that they would have gms come into the game and like summon rag like in the middle of like valley of trials or something like that so do i think they'll do something cool in the demo i freaking hope so i think it'd be funny yeah it might if they do anything like that just like mess with people it'll probably be towards the end yeah old blizzard pepper hands yeah no i um i think if they do anything like that it would be more than likely towards the end like i could also see somebody like i can also see the freaking classic wow forums the official wow classic forum is just like up and uproar like oh blizzard sees this game as a joke they're not taking this demo seriously just like dude come on like i could also see that happening um and i could also see blizzard being afraid of that happening and not doing it so which is i mean i me personally i'd be like dude screw it like if you go back and watch an actual vanilla 2004 open beta footage gms are running around morphed as rats one-shotting players like it was just their playgrounds like i don't know just like suck it guys you know i hope stuff like it happens i hope it happens again i want it you know it'd be cool if they took away the borders on the last day and let people like filter in to like rhetoric or something like a big raid scored versus alliance the last day get everybody fighting against each other battle royale style last man standing and then just wipe the servers that'd be awesome and guys again one more time we are a what just a little update on the giveaway the giveaway for the virtual ticket is is still in the chat i'm gonna keep posting it but um that's going to we're going to announce the winner of that giveaway at the next classic half so so people watching on youtube you guys are going to have a chance as well uh this will be this will be in the comments below uh i usually comment on all my videos that one of our post them so this will be in the comments below as well and uh you guys can get your chance at a at a virtual ticket and that'll get you the uh wow classic demo as well so as well as everything else that it comes with yeah so very very exciting i'm sure i sounded the question here i might have lost it here um i hope i didn't lose it i see what you're since sharding is inevitable is it game breaking for you or not really because otherwise servers will crash um i guess i disagree with the two assertions you made i don't think sharding sharding is inevitable and i think that the servers are capable of not crashing but but yeah sharding is a very big problem it probably would be a deal breaker for me yeah i i really i really really do not want to see that uh this is from eu paladin uh he says that he thinks achievements would be a be a it would have had a huge factor into assuming that blue's gonna add an in-game shop so the good news is that they're not gonna have achievements and they've already they've already said that there's gonna be no achievements and no transmog so in the dev water cooler update that they had a few months back they said that their goal was to not have anything in the game that wasn't in the game post-vanilla and they specifically stated you know it's like okay what do they mean by that i don't know but they specifically said no transmog and no achievements uh one of the we're giving examples of things that would not be in the game so that's something that uh i don't i'm personally i'm happy with that i i do not want to see uh achievements or transmog in vanilla you know i'll read that off real quick uh i'll pick up here this would inherently include classic systems like skill ranks old quest and terrain at towns and so on while later features like transmog and achievements would effectively not exist because they are entirely absent from the data so you have pretty much tldr if it wasn't in vanilla at some point it will not be in classic that's my takeaway from that uh epic leases why would it be bad to get achievements or achievements or whatever on retail if you play or get something in classic he says that that would not directly affect anything classic apart from bringing in more players uh do you guys want to do you guys want to share your thoughts on this yeah i'll chime in on this one um i think at the end of the day there are certain precedents you don't want to cross there are certain walls you don't want to cross you don't want to set certain precedents one of them would be for the two games to have any kind of connection whatsoever um i don't like the idea of you know somebody suggested this in the past use your wow token to buy a classic or a classic time or something like that because it always leaves the door open for the inverse effect for something in classic to change retail and that would have devastating gameplay consequences but um specifically to this thing uh it wouldn't affect me personally but i would actually think retail players would be upset i mean imagine if you you know i don't know like i don't know if you get like an achievement for having full tier three or something like that but i know some people have suggested the transmog pieces you acquire classic could be used to transmog and retail i mean dude imagine if you just got like chromatic chromatically temperate not chromatic temperate sword there's a chromatic blade what is it chromatic sword chromatic blade the one that drops off the right oh cts cts yeah yeah yeah chromatically temperate sword that's the bwl one what's the one that drops off the basilisk and stranglethorne veil i can't remember okay i don't know it's like it's it's just like a it's a green chromatic chromatic sword yeah oh okay that's a chromatic sword it's like a rainbowish sword that drops off the rare and vanilla which is not you know you can farm it it's not that difficult to get in vanilla but in retail it's worth like tens of millions of gold or something like that imagine being able to get that sort of vanilla relatively easily and then having it as transmog and retail i think people on retail would be pissed because that would kind of invalidate their efforts yeah i i hope and i don't expect something like that what happened like if you farm full tier three in vanilla wow you're going to get it unlocked in retail wow but what i fully expect and this has happened with literally every blizzard game ever you know if you play hardstone you can get a mount and wow if you play wow you can get a spray on skin and overwatch if you play wow you can get a skin on starcraft 2 there is cosmetic over a crossover like that to incentivize game purchases i fully expect something like that i think if you play classic wow you will probably get something in retail wow i hope it's not vice versa i hope you don't get something in classic wow i don't want to see that in classical but if they're giving people a pet in retail wow i don't think we need to incentivize people to play classic wow i think classic wow has enough merit to stand on its own it's genuinely a good game but i fully expect that if you're playing retail wow you will probably get a pet or something i fully expect that just because that's what they've done with literally every other blizzard game yeah i think uh the big thing for me is i don't want people playing classic for no i don't want people playing classic no i don't i don't want people to who are playing classic to do something in classic only to get an achievement on retail and take away from somebody who might be maining classic or something like that like let's say um let's say there was like transmog or achievements or stuff like that hypothetically like imagine a corrupted aspringer drops right not not only the point that tips made where you were talking about like it kind of it takes away from the people who got it originally but on top of that it takes away from the people who want to get it now in classic and it's like i want to use that for my myself to play like i don't want to have somebody else take it just because they want it for like they take it on their hunter that they're running max with because they want it for transmog on their warrior on retail like dude come on i mean you're a hunter you probably want it anyway just because you're a hunter you want everything but i i really do not like that yeah i'm really not a fan of that just keep the game separate man i mean just keep them separate they're they're separate games keep them separate i'll also say if the type of player that is crossing their fingers hoping uh to get t3 unlocked or corrupted aspringer appearance unlocked in retail wow if they get a corrupted aspringer in vanilla wow if that's if that's someone's desire to put it politely you're not the type of player that's going to ever get a corrupted aspringer in vanilla wow you don't you don't have to worry about that no i just i don't want to even deal with it like as a as a guild raid leader like i just like god really i don't know yeah i think you're right i think they might not even get to that point but i might not even be a thing so um what would oh this is from dashi move what would be your thoughts if the subs were unconnected and each was fifteen dollars uh i i would not like that i mean i i think what would happen if that had like if that were the case uh i think that blizzard would be basically cannibalizing their own profits right now it's like okay well if you're just paying 15 for both and whatever it's like sure but you're cannibalizing it in terms of you're taking away the potential for them to play the other version of the game um i think that would be something that's really bad i know for me personally like if i still want to arena i might i may or may not i don't know i might just like not arena if i just want to play classic then like if i'm i don't know i don't know what would happen for me personally like you'd have to see how that plays out in the future but uh earn this this hypothetical future but uh i don't think i i don't think that would be a good idea for them to do i think that would be a really really really bad idea for them to do actually you know do you guys have anything add to that tips tips go ahead uh just they should not split their player base like there's no reason to especially when the alternative is to keep their player base together and establish a symbiotic relationship between the two games it's a lot more uh desirable for me to play retail after classic comes out if i know that i don't have to pay an extra subscription and let's say you know six months down the line after classics out we've been farming mc a little bit of a content lol maybe i'll go check out the new retail patch or the new retail expansion or something like that it's a lot easier crossover when i know i don't have to pay an extra sub um and that would kind of keep you within the world of warcraft ecosystem i would not stop playing the game i would not get out of the loop i would still be sub to wow and i do think that when blitzer does decide to link the subs which i hope they do there's going to be i'm just going to be sub to wow for the rest of my life dude like why would i unsub you know there's always going to be content whether it's classic or tbc or the new the new patch or the new expansion of the modern game i'll try it all so i think that's something that a lot of players feel as well and it will definitely keep players connected and sub to the game for much longer yeah i think that i actually i'm actually very happy with this leaked uh sub model i think the shared sub is wise you get the bonus classic uh subscription if you're already playing for retail and if you don't if you really just don't want to play retail you can pay 750 for classic i think that's i'm perfectly fine with that i don't think i don't really see any big problems with that i think tips tips and s font are really right about the ecosystem health ecosystem um yeah i think it's in their interest like you have you have sort of zealots on both sides of fence you have vanilla wow extremists and you have class that you have a retail wow extremists and they like to think that you can only enjoy one game or the other i think it's actually perfectly this might be surprising but it's perfectly possible to both enjoy bfa and also enjoy vanilla and it's still at the same time understand that um that they're very different games i think it's possible to enjoy both of them mm-hmm uh we're going to take a few more questions guys before we wrap it up um just a few more questions because we are we are running short on time uh after this uh i i'll stream for a little bit after this maybe half an hour or so and then and then stay safe you're going to stream a little bit later tonight as well uh and i'll i'll host into you after i'm done with my stream i'll just do a quick little short stream because i didn't stream earlier today but um yeah the after party streams yeah exactly after party streams so uh rock my burst i think this is a good question uh do you think that they'll let us buy mount training as it wasn't the start of vanilla or like it wasn't later patches also do you think that the non armor epic mount versions will be in at all uh i would like to see them i would like to see the non armored epic mounts so what what rock my burst is talking about is two things i believe it was until patch one point was it three or 1.4 that uh they got rid of the unarmored epic mounts i believe it was 1.4 1.4 they got they got rid of unarmored epic mounts it was very very very early on but originally the epic mounts did not have any like sort of special armor to them they were just like different colors uh at least for humans it was like that uh and then also originally i think the mounts were really expensive and the training was super cheap epic mount training was very cheap but then the mount itself was really expensive and they flipped it yeah they they flipped it later on uh to where the training was really expensive and then the mounts were super cheap just so people could buy multiple mounts or whatever uh and only had to pay the big fee once i think that they that they'll have it that way i think i think that it'll be it'll be the final version of it as it was in 1.12 i hope that's how it was you're right so back in early vanilla wow this is actually this is actually 90 percent of vanilla wow so they changed the mount training system the mount prices i think in patch 1.11 uh so prior to 1.11 you had kodo training you had horse training you had mechanistrider training each one had their own training and it was very cheap it was 10 gold and then the mounts themselves were much more expensive uh and up until 1.4 they had unarmored mounts unarmed unarmored epic mounts so um sort of the epic mounts 100 speed mounts look very similar to the low 40 60 percent mounts on top of that and this is like a bit of a gold making tip i guess maybe i shouldn't tell you guys um up until 1.4 up until 1.4 every mount you bought was boe um so if you get exalted with rip with with your alliance reputations for example you can buy an unarmored night saber um an unarmored one they'll be very rare because they're not going to to exist after 1.4 you can sit on them for months and months and months and you can sell one of the og unarmored night sabers or unarmored horses whatever you want you can sell it down the road um because it will it will it will remain boe that's how it wasn't vanilla and you can make a ton of gold you can make a ton of money doing that mm-hmm yeah uh here's a question from uh g dan and i think it kind of falls in line with like the idea of fresh servers thoughts on making wild classic ladder base where there's a hard reset after a 12 or 18 month cycle i don't like the concept of a hard reset i think one of the problems with private servers over the years is that you never know like if you're going to get to keep your character right at any moment somebody could take the server down something could happen well now it's like okay it's happening for sure you're losing all your stuff for sure with a hard reset but um the concept of adding fresh servers after a certain period of time i think would be something that uh that's something a lot more feasible and something that i think should happen and stay safe you're kind of talking about that a little bit earlier um now i don't think they should add if they should release fresh servers in the middle of a cycle of vanilla wow because what that happened what would that cause this to happen is that it it'll kill off and people who are playing the other version of the game will be like oh let's go to fresh and then they just for whatever reason right i mean some people like that some people don't like that but there will be a large portion of people that they feel like man i screwed up i didn't get into the best gilder i got behind or i started late well i'll just wait and i'll go fresh and what ends up happening is it ends up killing off that server uh because there is an obsession with fresh and uh yeah yeah exactly so yeah it creates this culture of just never really you know investing in one server um and it's perpetually waiting for for a new fresh server and i think having that investment is important i would i would really say only have fresh servers maybe every two years i like this one said i don't want them coming out every six months because i'll tell you every time a fresh server comes out the current old uh un-fresh server it just dies or if it doesn't die it takes a huge population hit yeah like it should be i think it was six months after nax or so it was about six months after nax released it's one of the 2.0 patch the burning crusade patch went in um and then burning crusade the expansion itself launched uh in january so i think it should be like a six or seven with period after after nax launches that they then that's whenever they can think about putting out a uh a fresh server sorry no the only situation the only scenario is even putting out fresh servers before that is if they just don't have enough servers at the launch or something but how do they do that back in vanilla wait a minute when they would release new servers would they be on the same patch as every other server or would they restart the patch they would be on the same patch they'd be on the same patch so the appeal of fresh wasn't really there you know they launched on 1.9 or whatever well like i i think what happened was it was after 1.9 or maybe it was on 1.9 uh they would release some new servers to to accommodate the growing game the growing population in the game and i specifically remember going on one of these low-pot like new servers and i think it was towards the end of vanilla and they still didn't have aq 40 open like the war effort was still going on and i just thought it was insane right because i played on illidan and and later kelth is odd and those are servers that were historically have kind of been popping off throughout wow but uh but yeah it was very very funny i don't know i don't remember what server i went to maybe like zuljan or something i don't know it was it was some random server um i have no idea but uh but i just thought that was so funny back in the day mind those copper ores dude yeah you just start mining dude for sure uh here's another good question do you think it's possible to demo as a stress test and do you think it's possible that uh do you think it's possible that including this is the virtual ticket is the hold on is a way to offset project cost in case they don't meet their projected numbers uh i i don't i would say the virtual ticket has nothing with like nothing to do with like offsetting any sort of cost and projected numbers i think more than anything they're trying to increase the value of the virtual ticket right the virtual ticket's 50 bucks well let's just like pack more stuff into that 50 bucks so you get you get more for it and uh on the flip side of things there are going to be a population of people who are just going to pay $50 to get to play classic for a week play a classic demo for a week um i think i think that's kind of the main thing about it but uh stays they've actually mentioned it earlier about the classic demo being likely seen as a stress test and i agree i believe tips you agree as well i think it's going to be big yeah yeah i think it's definitely a stress test i think they're going to be taking notes and taking measurements and taking analytical information um i they might be testing different variables on different servers like you might not even you might not even be aware of the variables or the type of server you're playing on the server you load into on the demo might have a 2000 population cap with a slightly slower respawn rates and they're going to see how that plays out there might be another server that you randomly load into that will have a 5000 population cap with slightly faster respawn rates they're going to test these things potentially who knows um that's that's what i would do that's what makes sense to me so we'll see we'll see let's take one more question let's take one more question uh from the chat let's take one more question from the chat um before we wrap it up and before uh i'm going to go off to my stream we'll do that here and then stay safe we'll stream a little bit later on let's see hmm do you guys see anything that sticks out to you take a look here um people keep asking about what's our ideal patch 1.13 what do you guys think about 1.13 you guys you guys know how i feel i am very very anti 1.13 i want a replay of classic wow and or tbc and tbc yeah do do we want to open up that can of worms now i think i think i i think a 1.13 could be interesting but i just don't think it should happen until uh after a full cycle of classic yeah type the full cycle of classic i wouldn't mind the extra content so long as they preserve the original vanilla servers and maybe they do a couple of these fun servers post next servers i'm totally cool with that um i i just uh yeah i mean honestly if they were really going to go through with it i'm probably against the grain in the sense that i don't want to see the stuff that was all done in vanilla like the dragon isles and um or dragon isles no but like i don't want to see kerosene or caverns of time because we already got that i'd like to see something new that we never got whether it be something like the dragon isles ashara crater or something brand new that they've just developed but the likelihood of going to 1.13 i think is very very very small especially when you have the alternative of tbc and if they did it they would have to do it right they had to preserve the original vanilla servers and then maybe you can transfer onto these 1.13 servers or something just for fun that yeah very small possibility of it happening yeah not only not only do i not want it i think it's not going to happen i mean do you think blizzard if blizzard's going to be introducing new custom content with perhaps new lore and gameplay experiences and storytelling experiences is classic wow the tool that the device that they're going to do that on like is is classic wow the place to introduce new lore and story i think absolutely not like i i just i don't want it and i don't think they're going to do it i think it's very unlikely yeah we'll see we'll see it's gonna be a it's gonna be very interesting thought and we might uh we might open up that can of worms someday but i i feel like we could talk a lot about that um but for now guys anyways guys thank you so much for joining us here for class cast number 14 uh a lot of stuff to cover a lot of stuff to talk about we had a lot of fun a lot of speculation uh like i said before please please please go follow tips out baby on twitter youtube and twitch follow stay safe tv on twitch and youtube stay safe warlock on twitter and then if you haven't already uh follow myself as well and you know what if you do that you're going to be eligible for this giveaway which you need to go on the links do it through there or like click through it even if you've already followed us click on those so that it verifies it in the system put your username in there so that so that we know who to contact and uh we will announce the winner of the the very first classic cast giveaway by the way the very first classic cast giveaway we will announce the winner at the uh at the beginning of the next classic cast so stay tuned for that no thank you very much for watching this is number 14 what did we start using december i think i think i think late january early february it might have been the beginning of february yeah yeah pretty crazy and blizzcon's a month away dude it's gonna be good yeah thank you so much for joining us guys we'll see you guys later peace