 audit just to find out like where are we at you know like we know some things are obvious to us you know like most of the people on stage are white dudes but that that's just a kind of you know you know first blush so we want to make sure that we do that that deep work and really I just realized my backs before we start making changes implementing things really know where we stand so this discussion for us is is about you know starting to get some ideas so we're really excited to hear your voices and thank you for really encouraging us to have this discussion in the first place so thank you my name is Denetjo Thompson I'm Denet French Swedish and unknown I grew up in Alberta mostly in Cree territory also Caliary came here about 10 years ago started making theater and really really privileged to be working on these lands the Slavutut, the Musqueam and the Squamish it's a really exciting time there's a lot of really great dialogue going here I think Vancouver is in a lot of ways leading parts of that discussion it's important for me in this conversation to acknowledge that I'm coming from this from mainly indigenous perspective I'm male I present white so I have a different experience than many of you that's just an acknowledgement I want to talk briefly so I'm going to set up a lot of context I'm going to talk at everyone for a few minutes and then I'm going to step back I'm not going to be very involved in the conversation I'm just going to help move it in a certain direction or guide it or stop it from going places that I don't think are productive for where we're at just a little bit about the land acknowledgement I think it's something Vancouver theater specifically is doing very very well and is starting to be incorporated into training institutions and other theater organizations across the nation one of the important things we say here is unceded and that acknowledgement acknowledges that this territory was never given over so that's just a little context there's a lot of other things educate yourself about this I think it's really important issue and take responsibility for the education I think we can all do more to support each other in these diversity conversations by actively engaging in learning about other people's experiences there's a sign-up sheet outside signing it if you haven't please do it helps the fringe know what they're doing who's been here who's been part of the conversation and it helps them report to people that give us money and tell them that they're actually doing and we all need that money again right so in terms of safety exit signs stairwell elevator fire don't use I don't know the muster point when I'm sure there is one top of the stairs top of the stairs muster point great good to know and in line with safety in these conversations some big things come up sometimes so to help protect ourselves and each other from re-traumatization and things like that the first offering I give is to speak from your own perspective don't speak for others something that's really common in a lot of theory and for that becoming pervasive in our culture great and it's a safe space we want to be able to speak our minds but don't feel pressured to there's also as we go through the day we'll just start let's move this somewhere away from me there's a path here and if you ever have things that you want to be heard by the fringe or in this space write them down you might get to the path we might not but you're not comfortable speaking here that's totally fine witnessing as participating in and of itself we are live streaming on how mentioned can't be seen over there so if you don't want to be seen over there like to thank the fringe David and Jess Chetney we've been engaging in this conversation for quite some time players theatre center who has provided the equipment to the support to live stream and Heidi Taylor who is minutes from participating in a reading and came in and set up for us and then we'll finish the reading and then we'll come back and tear down for us and take all the stuff back to the side so she's pretty awesome she does great things for this community and the folks at all around her posting this so what I think we're here to do is to one discuss what's going on in our community specifically under the framework of the fringe but also to create progressive actions that are scalable to our position in between so individual artists it's my hope at the end of the day we will take away one single action that we can commit that is simple achievable an example and I'm borrowing this from some folks that were to the making a scene conference Marcus you said Sarah Gordon Stanley they did my corrections I said I will take someone I admire in the community for a cup of coffee or a beer once a month very cheap maybe some people who are organizational leaders maybe it's more organizational but something still that achievable and to acknowledge that the work of us as theater makers and people who support theater makers we want to expose vulnerability on stage in some way that is safe that's what we do and so in discussing diversity there are communities within our community that are vulnerable so how do we support our community's vulnerability when we value vulnerability in question I don't have answers we're just talking so coming from an indigenous perspective I want to draw a couple of ideas in one is relates to this idea of vulnerability Monique Mojica wonderful creator she speaks to the idea of body politic so people that don't come from the status quo white patriarchy they work for their own bodies they are inherently asked to do work that that status quo may choose to do or not our work as diverse artists is inherently political immediately just because of our own existence and our meeting here today is inherently political and the other idea Glenn Coulthard again an indigenous thought leader over at UBC he brings up the idea of righteous resentments which is where a lot of us are angry and I woke up I agree today this this stuff gets me charged and I'll talk about that in a moment and I saw his book launch red skin white masks and it's either Matt herner Lisa Simpson or naming the names that I remember because we should honor them but I'm not sure who it was but they brought up the idea of the place for that righteous resentment it's okay to be angry about the things that are going on we shouldn't be suppressing those emotions we should embrace them and move them to progressive action art was named art is a very very good place for that anger to be put and talked about so that's another opportunity we have as artists that being said I think the anger while it is present and should be acknowledged is not the folks who are here looking for progressive forward-moving action great so I woke up this morning feeling really political there's a lot of things going on for me right now this is one of them this is something that I believe in greatly and there's some personal things too so one of my allies a good friend we had a pretty strong fall you know recently I just unknowingly it has to do a lot with our own identities our own politics and my inactive list and so we're coming together as a diverse group of diverse artists so I'm suggesting that we maybe take my mistake move forward listen better to each other and come together really hard we all experienced a lot of violence in some way from our experiences but yeah let's take those let's take that action forward so just before we get into it a little brief history of why I kind of we got here in the past 18 months or so there's some bits really big conversations with them the Jesse's received an open letter for being whitewashed they held a town hall well over a hundred people attended it was a wonderful step and I know these conversations have been happening for a long time but some senior artists that I'm talking to feel that there's a little bit of a different momentum this time I'm sure conversations will happen well beyond our time but that happened and then there was a production of motherfucker with the hat and there was criticism of the casting choices there and though getting into my own politics about it there was another meeting that happened that was hosted by the Latino community who I am happy to say are very interested in this conversation but are currently at Carmen here is reading which is running at the same time which is festival life right so several several prominent artists with a voice in that conversation with our next door oh yeah so that happened and then there was a social media burst that went crazy and then I've been involved in the fringe last year and this year and I got an email from the French and they're like artists feedback time on some of our policies and I was having a bad day so pretty candid and said call me and check me did we sat down we started talking about okay how do we how do we have the conversation not just behind closed doors how do we start bringing the conversation out into our communities and so through a bit of a struggle back and forth and also what to do we arrived at this idea and so we've executed it to best of our abilities and hopefully we'll learn from this and provide some information for the fringe in their own work and they're in there really good work they're doing great stuff and to do that I'd like to acknowledge Carmen's reading as a part of a program that is advanced theater new works by women really exciting stuff you know it's providing space in the venue for underrepresented voices in our community and in the French community okay the cover is right so as we progress through the day through the next couple hours we're gonna break off a couple things but when we come back I'd ask that the inner circle be reserved for people who self-identify as represented and then anyone does not self-identify as that step back into the second row we're going to do our best to practice witnessing we are here to provide space for voices that are not typically heard and so we will begin the conversation in the inner circle those of you witnessing thank you witnessing is hard work it's really hard work and it's really important work and hopefully the conversation moves the outside circle and we'll see how far we get and that being said be aware when you are in the inner circle or the outer circle of how present your voice is in conversation and to make the immediate assumption men speak so with that in mind be aware of your own voice and provide space for others really important in these conversations to include every can we actually can we make that move now because I want to do something that is great so I'm going to ask everyone to get into partners in a moment if you're someone who self-identifies as underrepresented I'm gonna ask you to pair with someone that self-identifies if you self-identify as witness we're gonna ask you to pair with someone who is identified as witness simple it seems if we've got all numbers also look out on either side and there's going to be four very simple questions that we're just going to discuss in part first question why am I here like today to recognize what we're trying to get out of this or what draws us to this work or why we value this work those kind of questions the other is with the other question do I see myself on the fringe stages as an artist as a body is a story and then we're going to shift gears a little bit to a conversation about what is the perceived fringe community just a question about what do you see the fringes and then what barriers does the system or model presents to myself or others of accessing the fringes and artists respect the primary questions and just nice little candid talk with someone meet someone introduce yourself tell me where you're coming from to make connections and support each other so let's start there today what was the third well was absolutely just a very good question it's yeah it's howl around there might be some people up there the questions why am I here why is this conversation important to me and all the questions that come with that question what is the perceived oh no sorry do I see myself on the fringe stages as an artist a body in this story what is the perceived fringe community and that would be really coming from your perspective don't don't make judgments come from your own experience and what barriers does the system or model present to myself or others accessing the fringe as an artist or community yeah meet someone new if you're comfortable if you're not hanging out with someone you're comfortable talking with different different implications to give it I the rest of the community as well, so for instance, the reading series that you're doing next door, a lot of those are more established artists, so it's like a fringe community theatre in the end, particularly in the end, as divided groups. I am... Because of the criminal, of course there are many different people in, but they are... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, really? Oh, okay. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, maybe talk like this. I'm not sure. Interesting. Okay. Yeah, nothing great so far. That's sort of really interesting. When I was doing my theater studies, one of my designers, we were close friends with Romanians. Yeah. And she's... She's in the... Oh, I see. Yeah. Of course. So, it's... The way they do it is not, but it's not curated. So we have room for all of the programs, So about a third of it, so very much. And then, but also a lot, but a lot of the international work it is. I help Americans so they can see it better. Oh, very good. And one of the things that I do is I have a very good group of students that have a very good age group. Yeah, a very big group. So, you know, everybody comes by themselves. I mean, so we, because we just, we, um, it's a lot of interest, so we just make it by ourselves. So that's what makes it great to be here, is that it's focused on, you know, the focus done on that. And so, yeah, that's right. That's right, yeah, I would guess that's true. And also, yeah, and also we, um, we don't have any connections that we're able to see all the time. Like, for example, the push-fest, many of the people that are not in this best quality would have except for being supported by some of the Swedish that have been seen by them. Let's see. Let's see. Push is not good about me. It's really, really different. But, yeah, I think I do have a very good group that's very different. I think that's what I'm doing as well. I mean, I just have a lot of sense of progress. So, like, I think the group that came from my team was so amazing that it was a big group. I just looked it up for you. It was a great group. We're still amazing because they fit into our, um, parameters, but they work so hard to do it. It's very... We schedule the festival so that there's only 15 minutes to set up your show and be missed to take down your show, and you have to do that. It was like a big thing. We had this lot of 12 people that were like, we're there with like, you know, all of their street drivers were like, you know, like, um, but they were amazing. But it was pretty unusual that some of you could actually do that. And we also give them a three-hour technical period. So, you know, it was unusual that they figured out how to participate. You know, someone saw that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, we used to be a technical group. It would be like two days. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, does that help you feel better now? If not, I don't mind that they may talk to me in English, but I don't mind. That's it? That's not the meaning. What are you talking about? It's not the real meaning. French, we need to survive on it. I think so. I don't know. If you're absolutely right. Yeah. I don't mind that they may talk to me in English, but I don't mind. I don't mind that they may talk to me in English, but I don't mind. And then I'm wondering if we have Vallahi outside though. So, I rate it. Yeah. It's okay. If you don't, maybe just talk to someone bye. So, that's fine. If you don't, that's fine. I think that's fine. I like Microsoft. I like Microsoft. I love Microsoft. I've heard it. It says English in English, That's fine. I want to help us make a change, I want to find ways, we're in a way, we're very open Anybody can, you know, but that's naive, you know, like it's not, I want to find ways of making us more open and more diverse Right, but diverse means the topic wise or like Artistically diverse, culturally diverse, I think it's a very specific type of artist that is usually on our stage Mostly solo artists, mostly white males, you know, and so I would like to see different perspectives Because do you think, like as you said, that artists have only three hours to prepare? Yeah So it means it should be smooth, right? Yeah, that's right, you know, it's probably like that because of that Yeah, I guess But if you are looking for like diversity, I don't know how, like same kind of scale and then have the justice Yeah, I know And then so in that case maybe, for example, I think a lot of countries have solo artists, like Seattle artists But maybe they cannot speak the language Right Do you know what you're saying? Yeah, yeah Oh, that's great Yeah, that's a surprise But I don't know, for me, when I was watching this year, it was a little hard to follow But maybe if the artist is only one or two people, maybe more easy to carry on But it was big one So it's so many things, the stage itself This was in Romania? Yeah, okay It was so hard to follow the title Right, yeah, yeah That's great Maybe focusing on small scales, the other companies Or solo, maybe easier Might be easier, yeah Yeah, well I think that, you know, tech language is definitely something to consider Yeah Yeah And then I'm wondering, Canada has some, like, friends supporting Yeah The artists Yeah Yeah, funding for sure is a barrier because the artists that are in the festival are kind of self-sustaining They're just, you know, they're able to be very minimalistic with their travel ideas You know, their sets and costumes and all that kind of thing Yeah I'm wondering, do you really, because Europe, like, Europe has a lot of, like, cultural immigrants But I'm not sure, I haven't looked into it, but Yeah, I think that's something for us to be thinking about, too It's like, which cultures do we expect to see on the stage? Right I think some that, you know, seem obvious to me are South Asian cultures Or Asian cultures in general, which we don't see a lot on the stage I'm not sure And they're here, for sure Yeah, for sure For sure, because huge Asian population But I'm not sure, like, all of these people Yeah Well that's another question Are we looking to help artists that are already there? Or are we looking to connect to people who have not yet been artists, you know, and to encourage them, you know Encourage that within communities? I don't know I'm not sure But I know one guy, he's, you know, his background is Filipino Yeah I believe he's doing his group Yeah But I don't think he's carrying his Filipino background He's more, like, Canadian He's doing it Doing it Right So when you're looking for more of a cultural diversity, I'm not sure he's qualified Right Right That's another aspect to it For sure And then the other very difficult thing is, like, being able to, you know If we're trying to change things like that, how do we decide, you know, which culture is, you know Is it about, like, is it about the color of your skin? Is it about what you're, you know, the culture representing on stage? Yeah, it's true Okay Yeah Next question, do I see myself on the stage of the fringe festival? I don't know You cannot You cannot How about the fringe? You speak the fringe too Yeah, yeah, I mean, yes, I could see the type of things that are happening at the fringe right now Yes, I could see myself doing the same type of thing Okay You know, monologues, puppets, white guys, you know But when you say like a fringe, fringe doesn't mean transportation No Because I don't know about transportation Oh, fringe, you mean? Oh, fringe We don't have that I mean, French is the language right now Next question, what is perceived by the fringe community? I mean, all the questions I don't know about the meaning Just like, what do we think of as the fringe community? What does that mean? I think one of them may influence the population or a culture Like, officially, you know, in kind of like, English Oh, no, no, fringe is different from fringe A fringe? Yeah, fringe Yeah, fringe festival, not fringe I hope it's fringe No fringe, yeah, fringe, yeah Like, I think generally fringe is as I think of as like the most independent artists Or the, you know, artists that are doing their work Maybe without funding from the government Really independent Yeah, just really Oh, yeah, that's what I think Do you have a perception of like, what kind of community it is? No, actually to be honest, I was not sure that what's the fringe means And then when I grew to it, actually I saw a lot of fringe, that guru And fringe, different cities Yeah, so it's, yeah, the word means like on the outside You know, like the edge, you know, like the edge Oh, okay That's what the word means, yeah So it was literally, it came from Edinburgh Everyone, just take a little minute to kind of sum up Finish your conversations It came from Edinburgh, the Edinburgh Festival And that in a long time ago in 1947 There were some groups, artists that performed on the edge of the Edinburgh Festival And then that became the Edinburgh Fringe Oh, okay, so it kind of evolved the way Yeah, right, on the edge of it, yeah And now the Edinburgh Fringe Festival is bigger than the Edinburgh Festival So it's evolved quite a lot And then in Canada, we have fringe festivals all across the country But they're not attached to other festivals We've just kept that word, fringe What's that? So you said, like each city Yeah, because it's all on the edge But you guys are not communicating each other? We do, yeah So we're associated, but not the same Yeah, yeah, that makes it more interesting Yeah Because every city has doing the same thing, no point Yeah, so we're associated and we do have a system where some of the artists tour And we help them, we help make it more interesting Yeah, interesting Thank you for that No problem So I thought it would be interesting, but I didn't know that it would be So we're going to ask everyone to go back to the seating arrangement Of if you identify, self-identify as underrepresented, whatever that means You're in the front, bro Everyone else is witnessing And so part of... Good, good Part of why I've asked everyone to kind of start smaller conversations Is to allow space for those conversations to come to the group Without anyone necessarily having to take responsibility for any of the information So that we're all in a free space And so starting with this inner circle Whoever feels that they want to share any of this conversation Or any thoughts around those questions We'll begin a discussion there Couple of rules of engagement I'll put my water down, I'll put my book And these are more from Sarah Burke and Stanley and Marcus Youssef Witness their work And they've ordered from someone else It's great conversation stuff, I don't know A reminder that if you speak a great deal, if you hear your voice a lot Keep it brief or listening At the end of your current thought, please just state This is the end of my current thought So we have contained, sustained ideas And speak from a position of yourself That's really... This is the end of my current thought, that one? Yeah, exactly, so I'm... Oh, and reminder that there is a microphone here Speak up if you remember to It's just broadcasting to a handful of us out there on that round So... Yeah, so this is the end of my current thought I turn it over to the inner circle And the other one here I can't be quite sure if it is a little technical But this workshop, I adapted that through I contacted many, many, many people In the current kind of respiration That there's no real kind of obstruction And confrontation happening with that community And I have an average of no background If I wanted to speak in a territory in Saskatchewan So I experienced a bit of a color difference That's happening in this community as well So I feel very excluded And I really heard it much like What the new party has done a lot And this has been a real... The new party has been in the very fact urge I think the person needs to follow the model Of that perspective It's doing... They have a policy around diversity And it's absolutely... What are the criticals to welcome to the community So this thing, it's not what I consider to be I know y'all can't have people as I'm a player But I'm completely natural And you will not find another representative From my community that are able to navigate In the community like I do I have to depend very heavily on the community So I really can't see people With the way of the shadows Taxing on their place And I'm having to sit over here To practice what I'm trying to To figure out what you're working for me And what you think a lot of work I mean, so I might not have the energy To do everything I can to save them So I do not think that that part Of the perspective of You know where you're being on the stage That you can live with me in very A lack of awareness Thank you for your words Would it be helpful for us to close the curtains? I don't know Okay, perfect, yeah That breaks my heart I also don't feel So hearing your words A part of me wonders How much of my feeling Of lack of inclusion Is self-improved We're talking about One of the difficulties My show is my story And I am an African Obviously a little extra mixed in there And yet if I apply to An African American festival My show might not be Included black enough And here my show is random And I got in And I can bring my show But where's my audience? Because my show isn't Frangely straight But it breaks my heart And that's the end of this thought Appreciate it Have any words right now? There's a question of audience There's for me a big question around What is the fringe audience And how does that audience Become intersexual And how does it start to include different stories I think that's one of the big challenges Have thoughts about The role of audience In bringing diverse stories To fringe stages Yeah, so the question of Where is the diverse audience And how to bring that diverse audience To fringe stages I guess I'm asking Is the weight on the stories being available Or the audience wanting to see those stories And is there an audience shift that's needed Any thoughts around that? The audience generally comes to the shows When they feel that they are presented And I think because historically Fringe has been a white center A lot of the people don't come To the shows you know And I think it's also the relationship Between the economy and I talk about it From my own point of view I'm a theater artist But for many years I had to choose Kind of if I paid for tickets for fringe Then I don't have money For international film tests And to be honest there are Many more diverse That's so much more diversity I think international film tests There are so many people As an Iranian Canadian That they go to see the films Because there's Iranian films And all sorts of films You know that it's not a very white center So I think that's like That becomes a thing That like if people come and support And then they still feel Every year after a year There are not well presented There are not a lot of people Of color that they write scripts There are not a lot of people Color on the stage And I think eventually Those audiences that they were Maybe here in the beginning They also kind of like Step out So I think it's probably I don't think that the first thing That starts within the theater world And then you build the audience Unless you're thinking about Communities that they just bring Their own immediate audience And people know you So in that group They just come and see your show But you don't think that's Guilty an audience In terms of the thing Oh, that's the end of the line I recently read an article About Fringe New York This year for the first time I think they had seven After the Oscar So White issue They had seven shows By African American artists Two or three of which were Like mine, just stories That happened to a person Of color And the others were Intended for political or political They were consciousness raising Shows one about Richard Crier And his impact And with a critical mass They found this year The audience should You know And I think if the person New York is a very poor place And things happen fast But I think it takes That kind of critical mass From the theater to immunity To make an impact And I will add that I had one Experience in Orlando Where my show opened I went to a very well-viewed Very well sold-out show By two men who Dressed as women And were comedians And presented as queer I'm not as sophisticated About the whole spectrum Of where they fell But anyway And the first third of the show Was very fun The second third of the show Was audience participation And an audience member Was called on stage And the game was Is this word A black woman's name Of a drug The entire third of the show Was making fun of the names And in the process Of making those guesses And it was so highly offensive to me And yet the reviewer loved it The audience The rest of the audience loved it So what do you do? The print is uncurated And even if they're to be They'd have been in And yet it was racially offensive So it's a question No, and that's all The question of curation Is very interesting Is where at least the responsibility For the work being presented Is to anyone wish to speak To have had that experience Of being offended by uncurated work Maybe instead of the question of curation It's where does the responsibility For that work lie? Is it in the audience? Is it in the community reception? Is it in the community support? Is it in the organization? As a subject to possibly discuss? Great, yeah, tough questions. Tough questions. Well, maybe then Is there any other thoughts From your conversations that you wish to? Looking over the question Is that it is worth Taking the right reaction To the decision Is it worth taking the right To shake the vote And create And I think about that a lot Because I'm quite happy I look like a hearing person I'm queer And I can walk down the street And I'm pretty perfect But at the same time I have a question When is appropriate To jump the vote Like different And when it's not appropriate And I think Full of hearing from your story It's bad It's very, very inappropriate And then he was levered What are the compromises That he made? So I knew more To make a vote What he did My children have Names that are What Logan had to get me So to honor her I'm Takisha And they refuse to learn The Japanese name Because they see a funny spelling And a brown face And so He goes by TK For the last 15 Delt with many people And reused that name You know I wasn't The whole class Oh God This is more than I want to get I say none of this law In that What is the cost Of speaking out Being political If we go back to the idea Of the body politic We are apparently political So there's a cost In being there And what are the energies That that takes I think we can all recognize this It's a lot of work At times The energy isn't there I don't know if anyone wants to speak Of anything as well So Jilly Coley around This really new experience I practiced our dense focusing As a visual maker How do I can go to an airport Right beside me And again I didn't I thought for me A position That could speak about it Systems and structures That are barriers themselves But we're curating Public shows Which is public These are One amazing I don't mean I don't have A lot of it But we should just be Into this show Call of Duty And In with a bowl On Halo Hope It's actually The majority Of the audience Are here And I thought That was really Good I feel A lot of people Aren't actually Being in series About getting quotes Or a big time So But I Partly need to see Every vote Of the audience But actually I took it in And I think That's happening In Seattle I think There's plenty Trickery for me And I've had A lot of opportunities To entertain People And have conversation Like that But They don't seem To run Long enough To meet An attack And I'm worried About What do you think Is coming To this Call of Duty It's about This deaf child Father's Relationship And how They try To communicate With their family And the whole thing With the photo communication So All of that Not just What we need To do But Interpretive The stage Or the microphone So Translate The whole Place over For me Because I come To the translation And I said I'm getting Two Really Different kind Of Happening Enough To show So It's like The both of us Are Being seen And whether The deaf people Are Experienced In the act To show And I Don't See That The only one That Is The only two That are Interpretive And one of them Is Genetic So I have a lot of Confusion For me Because The other Is Still Kind of Here For me Sure But It's not Well Play Well With Others But they Go Around And I Didn't Have to deal With Questions So I I mean You Have to Of course Welcome Everybody And I Don't Have To Add Down Things There Are Different Things Really Important And Really And I don't Have to Quickly Take Ownership Of that confusion The two Names Are not associated But they happen To be the same Just a curatorial Accident That's Really Just That I'll take ownership Of that confusion That's On us We're not Figuring out That there Would Do Similar In Name To Help Producers We do Have a lot Of producers From different Theater Companies Looking For Underrepresented Artists So it was something That we mainly pushed With theater Companies We sent them That information All the different Tags That they could Potentially Look At To help Them Find Underrepresented Artists It wasn't the focus I would like to Go further With that And we have gotten Positive feedback About it But the implementation Of it Was mainly Focused On Producers Looking For work From underrepresented Artists Can I just Say that As a Presenter Who is here Specifically To buy work That was something That If you communicated To me That I happened to Cross that On the website And was quite excited To see it But If you were trying To disseminate That to people Who were producing Or presenting Work potentially From the fringe It certainly Didn't make it to me It was in your past Letter Was it? Yeah Wow I guess I didn't Read that then Yeah Must be it Okay Well I will stand Corrected But we can Absolutely do better That's on that Well Yeah That's what we're here to do Is do better Yeah The self-identification Is underrepresented I wonder if anyone In the inner circle Would like to speak To that Or Nice to be Able to self-identify In that way But if the label Doesn't Go anywhere What's the point? The Fringes Is predominantly White guys And I always look For the shows They have women And I try At any show this With my woman Performed by a woman Directly by a woman I try to see first But it's hard to find those At You have to read The whole thing And so Why not Make that easier With anyone Along with Underrepresented Or women's show Because There's a lot Of fringe What might Be Older generalizations It seems that For less Physical comedy Two guys improvs Are among the more Fringy and attractive Things that draw Audience Therefore the The things that are Other than that Are Almost underrepresented In a way And As part of the dialogue Shows by women And then Shows by minority And then Shows by Non-heronormative You know All like with Non-heronormative People You know All of those things Become It need to be In this dialogue Because they're To get The audience There needs to be A court As you speak With the Deaf community If there's One show You can see Who wants to buy A fringe membership For one show Who's going to Look at Who's going to Look at along And I did hear Someone who said About the first day Or two I saw something On the artist Website That said Where are the Deaf-identified Shows? Where are the Shows with The time I'm not sure Because I haven't seen All the physical Company shows here But it seems Like some of those Would be Slammed youngs To have Interpretation That would be Let the show Be as accessible To the Deaf community Even though It's a very Fringy show So much That's The end of my thoughts So I had to I was actually Very embarrassed By the fact that I am providing This Show that's Translated in the New York So I Have to do A show called The cable story That's That is Included by Aboriginal Spirituality I was very Interested in That they have To have A membership And That only allows You to have access To my show That you Openly Or something For the Deaf community To have A kind of Choices But there's A little more That's The angry Performance that's Happening here And yeah We only Back with The orange show So I think That created A very Interpretant thing It's doing So I need I have Friends that Are coming There And have Expectations around How They are going to Be involved with The French Community But Nipping I don't use For I guess I don't use Just a team Like Sure Or two But that's not The point The point is If you're In your membership To think Where you Have access To all Of the friends Well We're Not getting That To all Of the friends I do that Super helpful To Talk about Some of our Logistics But because Some of you Have great ideas I would love To be able to Speak a little bit To it And hear Your feedback Either if It's written Later Or now We've Been working With a few Different organizations So to Provide free Memberships To people With Different accessibility Needs Those organizations Was the Western Institute Of the deaf and hard of hearing And And also With several Different organizations Who work with People Who are blind Or partially sighted And a few Other organizations As well But because We're working With those Specific organizations That information Doesn't get Disseminated to everybody Like obviously You don't have That information So we've So I would love To hear more Ideas On how to Better Communicate And similar To our Underrepresented Artist tag It's a new thing And We You know Communicated it But obviously Not effectively Because a lot of people Don't know about it And just in case You're wondering What the Is Is we have Artists We ask them To self-identify As underrepresented And so we We have a tag That you click And then within The show description It will say This show Is by a Creative team Of women Or this show Was created By an Artist of color This show contains LGBTQ Content Those sort of Things But If most people Don't know about it It's not very helpful So If you're thinking These are more action items That I would love to hear about later But if those are percolating In your brain I would love to hear about More ideas About how to Spread that information More widely It sounds to me I think I'm hearing it From several Places Just to Kind of box that up A little Is that The efficiency of the Communication And the specificity Of the communication We're lacking And I don't think That's anyone's fault I think that's New programs are always That Hey I would also like to say Shanti is very Approachable If you do Have many ideas please She's one of the Great persons No We're going to Kind of Shift the discussion Shanti Yeah We're right Down Yeah She's awesome We're going to Shift Kind of The move On Any kind of Final thoughts From The Circle A critical mass Is so Necessary I'm thinking Of the difference Between the New York Fringe And the other show In Orlando There were Four shows People of color Not counting The big Extravaganzas Where You know With The multi Peminent class A cast of Singer dancers But It got the best Critical reception Was Called Thomas Jefferson Come Up My Slave It was a two-hander With a Well-known Actor Of a resident company In the lead role As his slave In African American And It was a Well-done play But Um You know It's like I wouldn't Have taken The role As a maid And I You know It was a good role For an actor But It was an Obsequious The audience That loved it Was not An audience of Come I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm any queer, gender-vending person of color. So, my world is really fun. So, one of the things, like one of the reasons is because I like to see these conversations from different perspectives. And I was working on the Pink Line Project, which was based on the experiences of people of color, queer people of color, but again, it was not perfect because we didn't have as many people even applying. We ended up working with someone who stepped out, we had from the illness community, and we didn't want to be part of the project. So, there were still all these problematics within a process that had all the good intentions to be inclusive, but we didn't have all of the races. I was still the only one, and most of our cast were South East Asian or Indian, and I was kind of nowhere in that, even as of every year. So, after that, there was a queer symposium at Simon Fraser, and I was, which was between Frantheater and Simon Fraser, it was a national symposium around inclusion and diversity, and I was invited to present, and it was a one-week full-on, which was also very interesting to see the ideas of lack of diversity and inclusion from the queer perspective, that it's not like you're gay, so you have reached this amazing position of understanding all, and now you're good to go. So, fantastic to see that, so that was one of the reason I wanted to come in, to see it from a different angle. And I've been kind of quiet mainly because I just like to listen, but one of the things that I'm just going to say in terms of audience, I think in all of these areas, often there's a conversation of, well, people didn't apply, we mostly got white men who applied, and basically they just got it, or we wanted to audition, but not many people who were from other diverse backgrounds showed up, so I think there's always this conversation, and I think it's not a lie at all, like I think you very much face that problem. Like even, I have worked with the Navy before, and I have been in the situation during my master's studies at university, wanting to cast queer actors, and I had like two super white pen, and lately they're often representing me, I had to defend my project, but those were the people in the program, so I should more of them as a personal color. But they were both pens, I think for a second. So the problem that I think lies, and I think it's an important conversation, is within that education system, I think that especially for a range from what I see, it's such a peer support, beside the shows that have become kind of more well known or organizations that you might have known have opposed their work. Other than that, it's always like kind of students or recent graduates supporting each other's work, and I think in most of our institutions, we have one person of color who has zero confidence to write anything, or direct anything, or to be in anything, then it's very hard to support them, and I think that's always something that is important to have this conversation, but also to kind of go further to see like why we have such a problem in our training programs with diversity, and I'm sure that we'll be similar in terms of their culture, and we probably will know more about that. That's the end of my statement. I actually, it is one of those career concerns, and you're talking about the cubes and cubes. That's right. Okay, I really want to be perfect. Time creates a new diversity, and I think that's the only option that's really significant. What barriers to participation in the system, and unfortunately, they go right back to our culture. I have a friend who's written a show, tell me your name, she's Latina, and she wanted to, she was thinking about bringing me on the train circuit. She is never comfortable unless there's a critical mass of people of color. I don't think that in my three towns, I've had more than 10 people, I said Latina, visible African-American and Latina in my audience. For her, that would be a non-starter, although her show is really, you tell me her name, it's about learning people's names. It's a lot of stories and vignettes, learning people's names, how to basically respect for another human being, begins with being able to say someone's name correctly. So if you hear a name like Takeshi, which he never heard before, and he tells you twice how to pronounce it, and you want to engage with that person in your life, you need to learn the name. That's the message, but it's a lot of school culture, and it's very, but I can't honestly, she may have lied to Bridger, but she'll be miserable the whole time. And I don't see any way around that. And so I guess when you say that by nature, those of us who are underrepresented, anything we do is political, or it is more political, and she really wants the world, again, it's part of her world peace personal initiative, but the French hasn't been a place with that name. It's inclusive of those who apply, but the community, the French community, it always helps if you went through the Del Arte, or if you have your major storyteller and with a follow-up, it's harder to break in if you're an outlier in terms of grace, age, and those things are not, they're not barriers in the mouth, they're just barriers. So we're gonna shift gears. Thank you all for speaking. Really lovely, lovely thoughts, lots of great thoughts. Um, so I wanna bring in this idea, we've talked a lot about inclusivity, and we've talked about how if we are coming from any diverse or underrepresented background, critical maths is an issue, or audience building is an issue, or accessibility is an issue. And a thought that's been introduced to me several times is who is including who? When we speak about inclusivity. And there's one way of looking at it that the status quo is including us. The other suggestion I'm trying to put forward here is that those are of us that are in the center of the circle start to work with including each other so that we can build those audiences together to create a critical mass that is not dependent on one diverse factor, right? And then the other suggestion there is that lovely people on the outside of this circle here and out there start doing that work as well, taking some of the work. It's a lot of work to be inside this circle and come from these places. And the more ownership people can take about this work from their own position, better off we're all going to be. So in this shift, everyone is going to have a chance to speak, everyone in the room. And we're going to shift into kind of a visioning kind of place. So this is all in the frame of the fringe. There's other conversations happening here and elsewhere and nationally and internationally. A visioning statement, I think everyone should have the opportunity to speak. We probably won't get into a bigger discussion. A sentence about something you want to see that is fringe in five years can be about diversity, can be about anything else. Just to get us kind of positioned to know where everyone stands after this conversation. And then we'll do one more thing about that. So everyone can take a minute and we'll start whenever we have a moment to reflect. Generally. Thank you. I'm not, I'm just kidding. She's a laughing, but no, I'm just kidding, that's okay. It was pretty right now. Oh yeah, David asked the front of house to turn down the air conditioning because it's quite cold in here. So hopefully it will warm up. And by turn down, she means warm up. To chill out, chill at the AC. Christian Christian. Everyone feel kind of like they have some idea of some thought about what they would like to see the fringe be in five years? Or have or need or something? Everyone has some idea. Great. I can start if everyone wants to. Just waiting. I want to see a larger indigenous audience at the fringe, at non-indigenous shows and indigenous. I'd like to see a fringe in five years to 75% scripts written by women. I have so many. I would love to see our provincial category applications represent our artistic community well. Through race, accessibility, gender. I would like to see our provincial category represent what our community looks like. What do you mean by provincial category? Oh, for our applications? So we receive, you know, it's by lottery, so. So artist applications? So artist applications, yes, sorry. Our artist applications to represent what our community is. Well, why does the Canadian province doesn't seem to hear a lot of the story why they should have a grant with that? I mean, in captioning and why they should have a grant with that in terms of what was the, what was the next sort of riffing off what Chelsea said, but is that a place where patrons and artists actively engaged in the efforts that are being made. So that is, it's a conversation between everyone in the festival that everyone is there to continue developing that. I'd like for us to be artistically and culturally and racially diverse. And I'd like for us to know what that means. Like for, you know, the first steps for us, as I said earlier, is to be able to really sort of know where we're at and then know where we're going. Because I think that, that, you know, for a long time our policy of everyone's welcome, you know, we thought that that meant everyone's included, but it doesn't. Well, I think I'm going to take the opposite approach to almost all the rest of you. My background is coming from the interior and now I'm located in Chelewac where I run two facilities there. I am so thrilled to see the incredible level of diversity that's at the fringe compared to my community. And what I see going to the not-for-profit producing theater companies, which is predominantly white cisgendered male performances by middle-aged people written by middle-aged men and performed for middle-aged and older women, white women. You know, that is the world outside of the fringe. And while, you know, these are all great goals. But you guys, the fringe has come so far compared to where the rest of the theater community is that there's a lot to be really proud of. That's not to say there is no long, long way to go, but, you know, if you see a person of color in Chelewac, you stop and look because it's completely unusual to see them. The fringe is lovely for the diversity from where I sit. I'd like to see more diverse audience and performance. And in addition, vacation of that, in other words, there could be a political fringe. So, you know, like, political shows, here's your column. And if you like the LGBT spectrum shows, here's your column. And if you like, my women only, here's your column, okay? If you like, my guys who are white, here's your column. You can't have it. Because, you know, there are, the theater world has a picture, you know, a stage picture, which is predominantly white, except for some of the minority theaters that put on minority work. But to have it so that anyone, so there's more inclusion and anyone coming can find their pod first, because for some people, that's the only way in. They need their pod. Then they'll open to the broader. I'd like to just point out that here, minority theaters are more likely to be putting shows on a fringe than they are in the main stage facilities. Yeah. That's pretty sad. It is very sad, but it is where the reality is now from what I see. I'd be curious about the other, I would compare the space for groups that self-identify as I'm representing that range, which I know is a pretty big thing. A lot resist them. But I don't know, is there, like, looking at a way to move towards that and then not only just saying, I don't know what that means, like holding a certain number of slots for every artist, which might come through that. I don't know what that means. I don't know what that means. Yeah, I don't know what that means. But looking at a way to both create those spaces, like there's a dedicated space for, am I correct in saying there's a dedicated space for one of the works in this frame here? I'm sorry, that was... No, there's just the reading series. That's fine. So, it's similar to what we were mentioning to that. And then also, once those spaces are created, finding a way to reach, like you say, the communities where you can create a triple mass of audiences, that would be interested in those works and supported by those works. So, what that means, like, I don't know, from Toronto, so in Toronto, I'm saying, hey, we have these shows or to, people aren't going to be drawn to the same, we have these works, but a lot of artists don't check them out. And doing that outreach work beyond just this thing and saying, we're great, we're here, but, like, doing that specific work and finding the audience. I mean, I'd be curious to see that. All right, if I could respond to that. That's sort of where we think we might be going. We just want to do it, we just want to do it in a way that we feel really confident about. I think that's the nut of it, is to figure out, okay, how could we create quotas around some of this stuff and support it. Sorry, no, no, no, sorry, that is... We're in the final thoughts. Hey, I'll just one question. Why 115? I've heard a lot of people say, why 115 for the women's? Because I've heard a lot of people say, I can't take all of them work every day, I can get up early to get to a 5-6 o'clock show, but I can't take off every day at work to get to the women's, you know, those readings, which were only at one o'clock. And like this one today, I'll chose here, even though I really wanted to go there, and there's only one hit. So it is important when we reach out and do inclusive things to make them as viable as the main stage options. Yeah, and I think that will be our challenge too, because we have such a formulaic approach to production, which by we, I say, all French festivals in Canada have a very formulaic approach to production, which includes, you know, three hours of tech time, 15-minute setup, 15-minute strike, you know, shows start at five and end at, you know, 11. You know, like that, it's very, there's no room. So when we look at doing something different, we, by definition, we're looking at taking the whole thing apart. So, right, because it's true, right now we've just tacked them on, right? So, we'll, if we're gonna get serious about it, then that's, it's a big job that can't be done with, can't be done quickly or without a great deal of preparation. So, one last opportunity for final, final thoughts. Here, about the French in that, I would think it's not going to be good enough. I've been involved with the French in the last couple of years and I've not seen any of the changes, zero increase in the net of the tech community. So, I would like to see, I don't know, actually have leads that didn't reach out to me. I want them to reach out to me. I'll respond to that. If you see no change, then you're not looking because change has happened. And I'm not saying that that's the end of the road, but I won't, I won't be told that no change has happened because change has happened. And if it doesn't make enough impact, then we'll keep working. I appreciate that you're coming to keep working. I'd like to be a part of your conversation. I have, I met a few people and I really had this conversation and I thought to myself. Well, they just, it is, there's. If I can just jump in. I think we're derailing a little bit from where we're at and the value of this conversation. I think there are two sides to this. One, I think the work, some work is being done and needs to be acknowledged, but at the same time, your experience of not seeing that work as a visible viable thing is valid as well. And I think this is the challenge we are all in is how do we meet successfully? And I think both experiences are valid and I think there is space for further dialogue here, but now might not be the time to get into the specifics of yes and no. Yeah. Sure. Great. The last thing, we're gonna do a partner thing again. Partner with anyone in the room. So, partner partner, what we're gonna do is one action. It can be as simple as I will see 10 friend shows next year. It can be as, but make them all sustainable. It can be as complex as I will hire X number of diverse artists in my next producing gig. Scale it to your position in the community. So if you are just an artist at large, I am going to see a couple more shows and make it specific, make it within the next 12 months, make it with your partner and discuss holding each other accountable. Can be really simple. I'm gonna go for coffee with someone I like. You're an apartment making each other accountable. Different, but it's already on my work. It's already on my reach. But it's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. You're paying attention. We're good. It's okay. It's a little small. Oh, no, it's just where we can do it. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. It's okay. Yep, so. So, um. Oh. Righting another small. In these years. Three years. Yeah. Yeah. Um, there's time. Yeah. Yeah. Good, good. Good. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. You're all right. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. All right. Okay. I would facilitate a little bit of your conversation with us. Oh, what is my job? There's a camera. That's possible. Maybe you're just to make those things when I'm watching. Thank you for putting the investment into it. Yes. I have a lot of my life. Yeah, that's really interesting. We spend hours talking to each other. Yes. Yeah. We have different friends, but not one that's on our board yet. I don't know, so to say. Is that it? Yeah. Yeah. It's really interesting because I guess this gives you a sense of need to speak with a really good friend. Oh, right. Does everyone have a commitment of sorts to their partner? Did you two make a commitment over there? We talked about mine. You're halfway there. So we're going to leave it there. We're going to take your commitments and your accountability with your partner. We're not going to emphasize that we're going to be accountable to each other as two human beings, which is a shift from the way I've seen this done previously. And I want to thank all of you for your participation in this. This is challenging work, but we came together and I think we moved in a direction that is helpful for the future of the fringes involvement in this kind of work. And that was the most important thing. And I think we made progressive, actionable choices at all levels of this conversation. Thank you. And see you around the fringe. Thank you, Nate, for a wonderful facilitation. And just to say that all of this conversation is about the fringe. I like to think that we can be nimble and flexible and that we can take action that sometimes it's more effective to take action from the bottom than from the top. If you look at our theater infrastructure of our theater community, fringe is definitely the grassroots. So let's make changes here that will show leadership for the rest of the theater community. Some sugar in the corners. For all those emotions. That was great. Thanks for your time. It's Thursday. Not Saturday. Thanks for all your days. That's the brainwarp. They bought brainwarp. Thanks for your time. Tidy back up.