 And just so, well, let me let me convene the meeting and then I'll make a couple of opening remarks. I don't see Margaret yet, and I believe she is planning on joining us. So I'm Kathy Shane. This is the December 2 meeting of the school building committee. And before I go into the agenda of the meeting and welcome our guest panelists today, I need to go around the room and make sure people can hear and be heard. We are conducting this meeting virtually, and we are recording it so recording will be available later for people to view and we will be posting it. I'm going to just call out the names of people who are on the committee and ask them to let us know if they can see and be heard and maybe since we are being joined by Dinesco the design or lead designer group. As I call out your name, you could tell them who you are. I'm Kathy Shane, I am chair of the committee, and I am also on the town council. Paul. Paul Backelman, town manager. Sean. Sean Mangano, director of finance. Steve. I'm Steve Schreiber, town councilor vice chair of this committee. And I'm going off of town council in January. Yes. Yes. Because I can't hear you. Hit the volume buttons on your, on your keyboard. She can't hear you. So I only have a couple anyway I was going to say I only have a couple of years left. But I should say, you're also an architect, Steve, so you left architect. Yeah, yeah. More than just an architect. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I'm just an architect science. Okay. Mike. Present. And I think you all what you met Mike because he's superintendent schools, Jonathan. Good morning. I'm Jonathan Salvin. I'm an architect here in town. And a parent of a four or four students. Tamara. Hi, I can hear. I am the interim principal at Fort River Elementary. Ben. Ben here and can I'm the school committee representative and the assistant director of facilities for schools and. We'll be joining them laterally. Okay. And Allison. Hello, I'm Allison Estes. I'm the assistant principal at Wildwood Elementary. Okay, so see we have a core. I'm calling the meeting to order. The main item on today's agenda is meeting Dinesco and they will, and Margaret, I may just turn this over to you. Both to introduce them, but we've figured out we talked yesterday briefly about today's presentation. And it will be anyone who anybody who wasn't talking, it would be good to mute your mic so we don't get a background noise. I don't know where that's coming from, but they're going to discuss sort of timeline, some engagement issues with us. And then I want to make sure anyone a few like Allison said she has to leave early. We have scheduled and I spoke with Allison McDonald who is head of the school committee on December 14 that's 7pm. We will be joining the school committee with a joint meeting for an hour with about a 20 minute presentation but engaging the larger community which will really be a launch of this. So Margaret I'm just going to turn it over I see Rupert is here too so Rupert. Just make sure we can hear you and you can hear us and also introduce yourself please. Okay. You got it unmuted. I can hear you can you hear me. Yes. I'm Rupert Roy Clark. I'm the facilities director for the school system. Okay. Okay, Margaret why don't you just lead in if you want to just turn it over to Donna. Yeah, I'm just going to sort of briefly remind everybody since I couldn't speak earlier so I'm the owner's project manager. Margaret Wood with answer advisory and yes we've had since the interviews which were I think on the 15th. We've had a number of conversations and this is today as Kathy says mostly to introduce them and to give them a chance to talk about what we've discussed. I will kind of lead off by saying that one of the biggest issues to me as the person responsible for managing the schedule on the project was to figure out right away. When was it if it was going to be possible to get to a November vote November 22, 22 vote on this project. And as we discussed at the last meeting. And Jonathan thank you for chiming in about that it was it was a really fast schedule, and I will say that to me there were two scary parts about it. The first was that we were moving awfully fast through the community engagement process. And the second was we were going to be asking a lot of the designers were giving them a very short period of time for schematic design so you know just to refresh everybody's There's a programming submittal, there's a submittal of options, and then once the option has been the preferred options been put forward, then the design team needs to really dig in and go as far with schematic design as they can, for the purposes of establishing the cost of the funding agreement with the MSBA. It's not a good idea to shorten that. And I think to nisco has sort of further enforced what we began to talk about the last meeting, which was that, you know, they really need more time than the November schedule would allow they need more time for schematic design and I think we feel as a group we need more time for community engagement. So, I am going to stop talking and just say that one of the things that they're going to present is their draft milestone agenda for the project that also helps us understand where we're getting to what you know when the building would be delivered which I think is probably the most important thing to keep an eye on so Donna why don't you and your team introduce yourselves and I'll shut up. Good morning everyone. I'm Donna Dennis go and I'll be working closely with Vivian Rick and Tim. You'll be seeing all of us, probably at most most are all meetings. I'll be working on the education program community and the outreach, just the overview and process and we look really look forward to working with you all. Rick or everyone just want to introduce themselves. Rick Rice will be seeing me all the way through. Especially when we get into the construction documents deeper the more detailed design, because it starts to establish scope and schedule and through construction. I'm Vivian low. I'm a principal at Dennis go and I will be the design lead on this project so you'll see me primarily or mostly at the front end. I'll be working also closely with the team on the community outreach, and we'll be attending all the meetings and hopefully see this all the way through but mostly at the front end. Tim Cooper, I'll be the project manager for Dennis go managing our consultants and our team and I'll be with you throughout from design through the very end. So, Donnie you want to talk a little bit about the schedule or would you like to start. No, we can jump right in on that did you can you pull that up or do you need to. I can pull it up to give me just a second. I'm sure technical difficulties here this morning but yes, give me just. So I think we would just like to add on to Margaret's comments. The schematic design absolutely recognizes your, your reimbursement with the MSBA right so that establishes, not only what you need to fund and what we're going to be going to request for an override but it establishes MSBA's participation in the project so we really cost is important but the other really important component is once we submit a final space summary to MSBA on the size of the programs spaces the location of them, that's it to desi also plays a really important role in that so we just feel between the two of them. We want to make sure that we maximize the square footage that the spaces are exactly where they should go. And we have a really solid foundation to moving forward so with that. You know as Margaret said we're sort of tied to the MSBA board meetings at the very beginning, which dictate or inform when we, how much time we have so again, you know keeping the eye on the prize. We're making sure that the occupancy is ready for September or the fall of 2026 which seems crazy but it'll be here sooner than we know it. We just started working backwards. The designer typically does are the ones that get squeezed a little bit because constructions construction. So much time that's going to take. So we've I'm going to work backwards, just so you can see how we kind of fit ourselves into the schedule. We've identified about 24 months for construction right now we don't know what site we don't know what the final solution is. We're going to have, if it's a new building we've, we have to move the children into the new building and then tear down the existing building and site and finish up the site so we have to fully vet that out but we're saying 24 months. What we believe is right now, an adequate time for for the duration of construction and again, depending on what occurs with the final solution there may be some additional site or or building work on the other end. We're assuming it's a CM procurement process so we've identified only about five weeks for bidding. And for construction documents we've allocated 10 months and we think between that and the design development we can push and pull might start bidding a little bit earlier but overall about 12 to about a 12 to 14 month duration is what we feel is appropriate to make the documents are solid for bidding. And then so when you work backwards, you know, we end up, it is would be a March vote for a override or obtain town funding March April. And I guess that's a conversation with you all to make sure that is viable timeframe to be doing that. But for schematic design six months is typically what we would really like to have to make sure that everything that is required is well documented. And our schedule indicates that we would be doing this for six months, but what we would actually be doing is once we submit the PSR, which would be our were final decision and final solution preferred solution that we would actually start schematic design before the MSBA approves it. We will have a facility assessment subcommittee meeting before we submit the PSR to MSBA are right at the time we submit to MSBA so we'll have an understanding if there are any issues with our solution if they would like us to make some changes to it so we'll have that time to start schematic design and incorporating the facility assessment subcommittees comments or recommendations. So, can I can I just add something because I haven't talked about the facility assessment subcommittee, but I think of it as a peer review group, which is several board members as well as some other staff. It's a moment that the MSBA sort of in a, in a, they give us comments and writing at the end of each phase but this is a moment where there's actually a meeting. I think it's on zoom now I haven't actually done one since the pandemic but where the board members who are involved with programming and design and some other issues actually come together and make comments. It's a really big deal for the design team because it can send us in a slightly different direction than that direction we're headed. So, we're happy to say that that we actually look forward to these conversations we understand what's important. And the desi representative is also involved on those calls so this is an opportunity for the board MSBA board to comment on our project and ask questions, not at the board meeting. I don't want to have this major debate and conversation at the board meeting when they actually move your project forward so this is a informal way of making sure they fully understand the scope and the educational program. But, but that said, so then working backwards, you know we really we have identified seven months for preferred schematics of three months for PDP, and then four months but we're going to be working in parallel from the preliminary design program, while we're obtaining the information that we need for both sites, understanding, you know doing community outreach and we can talk about that for a little bit but could we do it for a little bit less sure but it doesn't matter MSBA is dictating when we submit the PSR just because of their, the way their boards are scheduled so we are comfortable with the schedule. We know that we can have a new school, I say that in quotes by September of 2026. And so I guess it's, you know, with the town with understanding the reasons or rationale behind wanting to have a November vote I hope that this is something that will work with the town as far as the funding and all of that that that's required. So I want to add one other thing Donna thank you that was a great summary. So the, the piece of the project that is funded right now is through this line of chain town funding. Right, so the. This is the piece that is sort of on the plate of the consultants right now. And once we're in schematic design will be developing as Donna said, you know, the, well it's the construction costs, but it's also the total project budget, inclusive of you know all the fees and costs and temporary temporary school space if we needed all of that really gets developed in this phase and as Donna said you know you want to take the time to get the estimates correct. And then they're the submission. We don't know the dates for 2023 but we're guessing that there's a January or at the latest early February submittal, and then they typically vote about six weeks later. And so the town can do its local vote. Well it's supposed to do as local within 120 days of the MSBA vote so you can do it sooner. So we are thinking that you probably wouldn't want to do it vote in January or February but that's up for discussion. Okay, I see Mike has a question or comment and please and everybody else in the committee if both for clarification, or other information and I might ask you Donna when does the educational plan need to be done within your timeline so let's go ahead and call on Mike first. And you need to unmute Mike. Sorry, getting less used to virtual meetings which is a good thing for my, probably in general but bad for this. Actually I think your question is fine at mine can follow yours so I think if you want to have that one answered Kathy then I'll jump in after because it actually that's a nice flow for where I'm going. That's my question so that we need to do an educational plan and submit it along with these documents so Donna can you just talk about when that happens and your thoughts about how you would be working with Amherst with Mike and schools. So, the education program is part of the preliminary design program. And this is the foundation for your project, and it is so critically important that we identify all of your programs, how they function throughout the district, not just within Fort River or Wildwood MSBA wants to see collectively and we've thought through all of these programs and the impact, and I understand that the fifth, fifth, sixth grade is shifting up. So we'll certainly want to address that, but all this is the fundamental foundation of your project, they will refer to the educational program when they look at the building plans the floor plans the layouts, the size of the spaces that they do. There's several members, Matt Denninger Mike I don't know if you know him. There's one Terry Quan being another, and they really put the emphasis on education so I know there's been a lot of they being that these are members of the MSBF. Right, sorry. They're like my, you know, BFS, I just know them all. No, I don't mean they're my best friends but anyway, so, you know, understanding the importance of this, I know Mike has done a lot of work on this we actually have a call set up for Monday morning, just to kind of touch base and see how much work we've done I know that this has been an evolution from the Wildwood project, and then taking it forward so we really I think there's a lot of work that good work that has probably been done MSB has made a couple of changes of the last couple of years, but, but we want to make sure that that's all incorporated. As far as when it gets submitted, the latest it can get submitted to MSBA is, I believe it's six weeks prior to submitting our preferred schematic report. We prefer to do it much further in advance of that because they weigh in, and we will get desi comments and we will get other comments. So, so we believe that that's an important component to make sure that we give them enough time to evaluate and review it and ask their questions, and then be able to incorporate the final educational program with the preferred schematic report. So, as far as community outreach. The education program is really driven by the program needs for the town of Amherst. However, there are parts of it that talk about spatial relationships and adjacencies and what's important to the community and where do you want to see these spaces and so we feel that, you know, it's time for the community to embrace it. You know, there's some administrative and requirements from Mike and his team but there is an opportunity for the community to comment and provide input. So we gave it three months I think that's what was on the original schedule. We believe that that's unfortunately it's December right so I feel like we've already lost a month but but we believe that that would be a great target if we need a little bit more time. That's fine we have it. And it doesn't stop us from then going forward with PSR we're working in the background doing all of the other work. So we kind of see it working in tandem. So, yep, perfect this so thank you. I look forward to that conversation Donna on Monday and I just want to share my appreciation for setting up what seems like a reasonable time on a particularly like kind of the shaded green and the schematic design because you know while there are these sort of points where MSBA gets involved like Terry will absolutely grill me on why we need a kiln in the art room at the elementary level so everyone can, like if you're watching these meetings, Terry and I will go back and forth multiple times about kilns our our teachers are passionate about the importance of kilns at the elementary level Terry is not so we know that's going to happen it's going to take time right. I appreciate you putting this together I guess my only. We don't know each other that well and so I have two dimensions to my comment one is a level of anxiousness that we've been at this a long time. Right and people in our community and representing the schools are hungry to be in better learning environments so I think 2026 totally makes sense I'm not pushing it all on that. Once people hear that like right now at a public meeting. There will be some expectation that we you know achieve that and some of my anxiety comes from sometimes things in Amherst. Occasionally take a little longer than they take other places right and that's not a critique of Amherst I think there's some real benefits to that so I guess my question is and sort of a dangerous one but. There are enough wiggle room where if we get delayed for some reason like when we're hiring you all we got delayed because of a technical snafu that just happened. It wasn't a huge delay so you know I guess my question is is that built in a little bit so if you know we do have an FDM extra meeting and I'm not picking on Terry she was great to give really good feedback just to kill him thing is, is a passion point for both of us in opposite directions. You know is that built in so that one minor delay doesn't mean that we're looking at 2027 because I think both for me and my role. Being an advocate for kids as well as you know I'm thinking of Tammy and Allison and the buildings they currently spend their days in and children do. I just want to make sure that we have you all know this because you're all incredibly well versed MSBA but sometimes unexpected or unforeseen things happen. So, I guess, I don't want to pretend that like you built in six months and it's going to be easy but have you thought through those pieces and if you have, I think sharing them with the committee be really helpful. Thanks Mike and, and just so you know we've got you back on the kiln. We do it we do it and almost all of our elementary schools so so we just want to clearly identify this one on. So, so we just want to clearly identify in your educational program the reason behind the kiln so we got you on that. But, but as far as the schedule right this is, this is a preliminary schedule and you're right this is being recorded. We want to make sure that this is our first pass, and showing you how we can still reach your, your September 2026. date. There is wake up room there are different ways to look at this we have 14 months built into design development and construction documents. So we have some time there if this does go a CM route route, which I think it was before, but but that conversation has to come come up again but assuming it is a CM route. There are ways that we can accelerate the construction and start doing some of that while we're still in construction documents so that we can pick up some construction time, if that. Even if it doesn't go see, we have done design build projects where we've done early site packages to get a shovel ready site for a big contractor so there's there's even ways to early bed. The design scheme and the schedule makes it important. So you have some flexibility at the front end. Yeah. For both delivery methods. Kathy, could I ask a quick follow up that be okay. I don't want to hug the airtime. I think that's really helpful and I appreciate you sharing that not just with me but with the community in the public because I think that's a question that's going to be on people's minds. I think my follow up to that is just a request I guess when we do get into new construction versus add Renault and all those pieces. I know my experience is not just from the Wildwood but from all projects is they have different. Even different sites may have different estimates for construction and I think that really has to be part of the conversation. As we move forward about the impact to the sites. I'm going to speak a little for Allison and Tammy. Just that, you know, I think those are real considerations I know that that for perhaps generous members of the general public maybe be less but for the people working every day in the schools. Understanding how long construction is going to happen the impact on the current students because instructions construction is not going to be a six month process Allison and Tammy I apologize it's just not going to be that quick. I just want to emphasize that you know kind of looking back and what I've learned in the prior project, probably didn't talk about that publicly enough that there really is an impact. And I know you're looking at 50 years but you're looking at, you know, basically a quarter of kids elementary experience, the kids at Wildwood or Fort River that's impacted by that and just just want to tag that as something that I really want to be part of the public discussion forward but that's it I will promise I'll be quiet after this. No that's okay I and that's a really important piece and I think that's why another reason why we're saying that we need a little more time, both at PSR, because at the end of PSR. You have to make a decision what your preferred solution is, and we need to give everyone all the information that they need to make an informed decision, which includes renovation in addition, and what the impacts are, and how that might change the duration of construction. And so we have no preconceived notions on what the best solution is, but we have multiple sites, and multiple options that we have to consider. We're hoping that we don't have to revert back to just look at a 320 students level, but if we have to do that per MSBAs enrollment with you all. We just need all of that time to have all the information so we can present to everyone. But I'm going to say something a little different Mike so there is an impact, absolutely whether it's renovation addition or new construction on these sites like, and then depending on what we do for sustainability and our net zero there there are all these impacts. And the impact is for the administrators and, and the parents, the kids love it. You know it's so exciting, and then they're so excited to even come back and see, you know what what it was so. So, we do think both principles here for your patients and your input, because you're also going to have a really important role in talking through all of this. I have one other thing which is one of the things that I is really important to me here is having looked in detail at the wild, wildwood project and then at the Fort River study is actually setting this up so that we're looking them at them on parallel ground. And I think it's really hard to do two separate projects and two separate time frames, and feel like you've made a real comparison this will be a real comparison. Starting with the establishment of priorities and not, you know, diving in right away. The first thing we are, we're, we are not going to immediately start presenting options first we are going to establish priorities. And the priorities the establishment of the priorities is going to be the basis of the evaluation. And I think that's really important, because you know people see an options what they want to see, to be honest to some extent it becomes hard and so now right now they're these two studies that were done in different settings with different partners it becomes really you can't compare them so we're, we're sort of starting. We have a lot of information to work with but in terms of the comparison, we're starting on a level playing field looking at the options. Donna, yesterday I had, it was a terrific conversation, a little bit about the way you and Tim weighed in on the way you work with different groups so parents and teachers, you know, to be getting input and listening do you want to say just a little just give a flavor of that, because we've, and then we have to work with the school system to figure out how we do the various things but I found it really useful to hear what your approach has been. Thank you and I'll Vivian and Tim feel free to chime in. So, you know we, we actually are, I agree with you Mike we hate these zoom calls but but we think that sometimes that actually brings more people to the table so I think that if there's a way to incorporate both virtual and in person at some point in that that would be really great. But for us it really is an inclusive community engagement and outreach. So, the opportunities where the community has input, and that they're comfortable in the right setting to ask questions, and also provide varying perspectives. It's just really important to us that not only the communication and the dialogue can't just be in one direction. And the goal really is to make a setting that's comfortable enough for people to ask the questions and voice their opinions without getting into debates or or debates are good arguments are not good that people can walk away, and at least respectfully because there are so many mutually exclusive needs and opinions and and we have to weigh all of those as we move forward with the with the project. We think community forums are a good way to reach out to a larger audience, and of course with zoom that that even makes it more accessible we have found that instead of 50 people or 100 people and an auditorium, we have 300 people on a zoom call. But we don't hear very much from them, we think a more personal intimate setting will allow people to be more comfortable to voice their opinions. So, Tim if you want to talk about how we would recommend like a series of workshops or how how we might roll this out as well. Sure, as a little bit background I'm on the school building committee in my town, he just passed the vote for an elementary school and prior that we failed the vote so it's very easy for me to put myself in your position and understand and in between those votes. There are a few task force and we spent a lot of time thinking about how we could engage how we could listen to everybody embrace the voices that we're trying to improve the project. Some of the most effective meetings we had and this was in person. It was a forum where you had breakout sections by topic so people would rotate between rooms. And the topics which would vary would be sustainability, traffic, open space education program. And then the smaller settings would allow people to, you know, interact in a more genuine conversational way with maybe a group of 10 rather than an auditorium because often an auditorium allowed voice with a particular point of view. You can drive and direct the conversation. And so these smaller groups would allow you to one hear more, and to take better notes and quantify so that that information could be communicated back and, you know, used as the evaluation, and the rubric basically to evaluate future decisions going forward. We did this on person and in zoom and just that sort of approach which I'm sure you have all thought about in the way you're going to do it is something that we'd like to work with you and tweak as we move forward. I just wanted to just add that we feel it's so important to reach everyone at different levels right so we would recommend these larger community forums where we invite all of Amherst whoever is interested whoever has a steak in this whoever has an opinion so that they feel that they're being heard, but it's also as important if not more that we fold in the school communities. So that would be smaller group meetings with the parents, the teachers, the neighbors, we have had meetings with just the direct neighbors of each school, so that they know that we see them and we hear them and their priorities are also folded into the overall priorities. Consensus is just such a so important as you all know, having just completed the permitting and now in construction of a project that for a community that was exactly divided in half. It was just one way or the other by five or 10 votes it was crazy and you know we didn't what I heard what we heard from this is we didn't know about these meetings well you know we advertise we tried to reach out so it's it's incumbent on us all to make sure everyone is reached, and that we reach them at all and you know for for the Spanish for the populations where English is not the first language will send out flyers with the kids in the language that they can understand. As Donna said, sometimes the zoom meetings, they're great actually because we could share information so much more clearly. So we put as Donna, or as Margaret did we we put the slides right on the screen and they could see exactly what we're talking about and we can zoom in where sometimes if you're looking at draw or drawings or slides in an auditorium. It's more difficult right to just kind of pinpoint to exactly what we're trying to say but, but that all said, we just want to assure you that our goal in this, this whole initial phase is in terms of establishing priorities is to hear what everyone's concerns are because, when this is all sending down we want folks to feel like this is, this is their school. This is not a school that we're imposing on anyone, and, and in that way will build that consensus. And I think to add to that. Throughout this entire process as you probably have worked your way through the first, the first project that I don't want to say compromises are going to need to be made, but there are mutually exclusive needs. Throughout the, it could be from cost to the ideal educational program with, you know, 12,000 square foot gym right so so there, there are mutually exclusive needs that we're all going to have to come to making the best decisions. This includes buying from the community what makes the most sense. If, if we can achieve lead platinum but it's going to cost you, you know, an extra $50 million I'm just making up numbers, you know, we know that's not going to happen so so for us. It's really making sure that everyone understands the decisions and has an opportunity for input throughout the entire process and we would love to say that we can do everything. We never say no, but I don't know what, what community has ever been able to say we yes to everything. And so this is going to be what's most important for you all. And we just want to make sure that everyone agrees with, with the priorities and the decisions that are being made as we go along. Tamara, Tamara has, I see her hand is up to. Excuse me two questions, and maybe I missed it is one who was creating the dates and the itinerary for these meetings. Is there a subgroup that I somehow missed is this incumbent upon us. One of the things I'm thinking about as you're talking and I really appreciate the idea of hearing everybody's voice but I based on my own experience and talking to families. I know often they don't necessarily see or feel themselves represented. And are there explicit, I guess what I'm hoping for and I'm sure that you can provide explicit instances in which families voices were heard and then carried out. But those are the things that families are going to give all of us and all of you street friends right like, who are these predominantly bunch of white people telling me that I actually have voice and twice in this. I don't, I don't, I think we have to build the capacity for that as well. And I think by sharing more intimate stories with support that. And then obviously the sooner we can get talking points and dates for community forums, the better. So, so, Tamara, I'll answer the, how do we engage or how do we listen or engage these parents and families, we start listening to them, what's important to them what's important to their school. It doesn't mean anything from safe walking routes right you're you're going to have a combined school so we're going to we're really there's so so many different sets of perhaps excitement concerns and and what might work best for them in their family so so we want to start that conversation as soon as possible. The other thing is we don't just listen and say thanks have a nice day and and and we never come back. There are so many communities, this community this family, or PGO would write your local communities. We have these conversations, all the way through the project. We absolutely have to pick it up again, right before construction because now anxiety starts setting in like, you know, how is my kid going to learn what's the disruption, etc. We will never have a meeting, get input and not follow up with a meeting and say this is what we think we heard. This is our approach. This is why or why not, we can't do it, because it's important to hear them. But if it can't be done, which I hate to ever say, maybe just at home right you get me again you don't get upset so I say to my kid but we hate to say at that but there might be instances where something might just not be possible whether it's cost or size or whatever. But we always want to go back to people and say we heard you, we think this is what you were saying or requesting. And this is how we've addressed it. And if we can't do it this is how we, why we can't. I was also asking with the logistics itinerary how do we work with you to set these up, I guess is that, you know, you know, and it looks like January isn't a really important month. Since we're don't have. So I'm just going to, how do you, how do you come and orchestrate these. Well, let me speak briefly, just sort of a link to prior conversations so what's been discussed here is that there would be. And tomorrow I'm not sure whether you were in the meeting where this happened but we've talked about creating a working group that would provide input to the design team around communications and we haven't identified who those people were I mean there's a couple of people in this group. I would definitely want to have their regular input, and you and Allison are sort of at the top of that list. And we haven't caveat I don't know if you thought anything anymore about the mechanics of how we would establish the subgroup, because that I think that's the answer to tomorrow's question is, there's going to be a subgroup that's going to work with the design team to establish the schedule and the one thing I've conveyed to them is that it's what I've heard is it's really important for people to see the arc of the process that if we say, there's a meeting, and we'll get back to you when we're going to have the next meeting, people lose the thread they don't understand where they are in the process so. And actually, someone in this group's been really sort of. Phoebe isn't here today I guess I'm looking for Phoebe's face. Phoebe is the one who I think has really nailed this issue for me so Kathy any more thoughts about the mechanics of that you're muted. Phoebe did say she couldn't come today but this is her key issue Phoebe Mary Emma who's on our committee. She wants to be part of this and wants to help in any way, both as a person but also links to the community and links to the school so it's of. She has raised her hand and her voice more than once on this issue so she is a willing able and eager. What's important as far as when we would love to map out kind of a series of meetings but I think what we've also heard is what's important is, we're not just coming back just to talk, if we don't have more information or respond to your comments and that's going to raise their time, we all probably have better things to do to right so let's make sure that we lay out enough time in between meetings so that depending on what the questions are or the requests are that we have enough time to fully bet them. That's going to take a little bit of time. So we you know we want to make sure that we get going on that so that we can maybe have a conversation about traffic sooner rather than later that's just an example sustainability is another one so we feel that we absolutely agree let's let's maybe come up but we just want to make sure that depending on what the topic is that we have enough time in between meetings to be able to thoughtfully respond to people. Tomarji did you have a follow up or is your hand still up. Okay, I thought I lowered it sorry. That's that's okay. I just didn't want to cut you off. Anyone else with questions or comments. I know Jonathan you, you would emphasize at earlier meetings this point of it's better to have a meeting when actions are being considered rather than we're just saying here's a process that we're going to go through and the importance of we're at the point of making a decision and here's the information we have. We haven't made the decision yet but but we've gathered it and I know on the site. Site number one or site number two, trying to, we should have a focus discussion at this committee level of the list of things that we want to be thinking about when we're saying Wildwood or Fort River, and just have it so that the design team can have a gathering information that would say okay this is what we know about traffic is what you've mentioned but water levels, other kinds of, you know, how much space we have to work with we've talked about wanting to have an outdoor for play but outdoor for learning. What kind of space we have outside the school building. So I think those when we have some of that you can get input more readily if people have something to bounce off of. You know that we're not just working off of building up the concepts people can add to the list but at least have something to work off of. I just wanted to make sure. Yeah, I agree with what you were saying, you know, there is a there, it needs to be kind of a combination of both presenting topics that you request input from, and then as you get, as you kind of return and report back as it were. You know, where you're taking in of the information you have. It's nice often to have something to view to respond to, you know, for the individual that you're reading or the group that you're reaching out to. But I'm very comfortable with what I've been hearing this morning that that that process will will happen very much agree with what Margaret said earlier on about sort of setting the priorities or the metric of data that we're going to compare the options against first so that we're all very clear about what it is that we're trying to achieve in the new school design, and then that have a common basis for looking at, neutrally looking at the options that we'll have to assess. Any other comments, Rupert I know you've always emphasized when we're talking about sustainability or the systems that we were aiming for a high performance building in terms of energy use electric, but that we also need a building that can be run once the engineers and engineers leave us and and and both make maintenance costs but sophistication or ease of use. So, Rupert I don't know whether you wanted to say a little bit about that but you've been fairly eloquent about it at earlier meetings. This is something that's going to develop as we as we proceed with the project it's not necessarily going to come up in the first month or two but yes absolutely. I've seen buildings that are very high performing for the first six months or nine months or a year or two, and then fall the pieces because they're just too difficult to maintain and I'm sure that didn't go has seen the same thing as well. I'm just making sure that I'm looking around the room on any other questions or comments, and I will make sure that we take that diagram that we just saw today on the screen and we make it part of this meetings packet so people won't have one glimpse of it will will save it as a PDF and there's a beginning grid that Margaret's been working on and she shared with the nisco the other day on a list of issues about to think about when we're comparing sites. And I think that would be a good document to be able to share with the committee Margaret and I would just send it out as an attachment. So we, we haven't, we have a next meeting joint meeting on the 14th with the school committee. And what Alison McDonald who's chair of that is requested is in that hour, about a 20 minute presentation discussion from Dinesco on, here's your team, you know, our approach. And that would be, we're, we're talking about that is sort of a big public launch. So I'm segueing into Margaret giving us an update about the website and the launch of the website so that we, we are telling the community that we are really starting on this, and then. So I'm turning it to you, Margaret, but I also wanted to get a sense of meeting schedules and may do this with a poll with people rather than try to take time that when we turn to do. And the frequency of meetings, trying to set make sure we have times that people can come to the meeting and I see Paul's got his hand up. So, Paul, are you about to just for them for the meeting on the 14th. If I were on the school committee, I would be looking to understand some and we talked about this a little bit but just the key dates and our expectations, not by, I mean by months I think so when does we. We're not going to be in there but to be very explicit and clear because I think what's the, what's the overriding message, the, the ed plan has to be finished by this date. We, we expect an override vote in, you know, first quarter of 2023 or whatever it is. So that's an instruction to start on that date. You know, the just sort of give a timeframe for people as a big that that chart that we have is great, but I think for the general public. It's going to be really important to have the five key milestone dates that we so people can start to wrap their head around it and it becomes more real, and it becomes very simple to understand for most people. That's why I would suggest we do that. Thank you. So, Kathy just to respond to your question so the website is ready to go and I have kind of been sitting on it because I wanted to roll it out once we had had this meeting, because I think what's great about this meeting is that it's an introduction to all of you but it will also be an introduction of Dennis go to the community. So you, my next step is to coordinate with Brianna and the folks at the district about. It's easy for us to make it go live but we sort of want to make it go live with a splash. And Kathy I feel like we did a press for redrafted a press release. The press release is done. Okay, so, basically I need about a day just to sort of have a plan with Brianna and the folks at the district to kind of make it go live with a splash and then one of the things it's going to say is, you know, come and listen to, you know, the first Bill and committees first meeting with the designer so that they get to have the same sense of like, now we're cooking that hopefully you are all getting today. And I, we, we record the meeting so today's meeting one of the things we will have is a link to this meeting so this initial conversation will be part of it. If one of the things I had hoped to get but we can figure out whether this works for Dennis go. You did a presentation to MSBA, and I think Margaret actually did a recording. Well, if there was just a link, it wouldn't be part of the presentation so people could see because that in that presentation, you identified a lot of the other key consultant groups and people who would be working with your team. And that would say there is this larger group and then here are the people you're really going to be seeing so just some way of giving without putting a lot of work, giving you a lot of work it's things you've already put together, figuring out how we make that part of the information that people can easily get access to. And you don't need to answer now how we do that but I was just thinking you've already put a lot of work into that so there's no reason not to have it be an introduction, in addition to today. Sure. Whatever you feel is the appropriate level of information. Are you referring to our interview. Is that what you're suggesting. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's that would be fine if you feel that that's appropriate it's 30 minutes that's a long time but but sure if you feel that it covers a lot that's fine. Yeah, and you had a you had a pack of slides and I realized it works better with the talking voices so this would just be people could click on it if they wanted to is my my thought and we have the document when you apply that is already up it may be that people have to search for it. But we can figure out how to just make background documents so people can learn more to the extent they're interested. Yep, that's absolutely fine. Whatever you feel is best you have permission to use it sure. Well and actually one of the key documents I think Kathy this is getting it to your piece because everybody can see this so this is a page from the application that shows the size of the team and the number of people who are involved and I think we will probably highlight this on the website so that people can understand there's this you know pretty substantial team that are supporting the team's architects. Don, you know one thing I did look. Thank you for trying to figure out how to make the embed your, the thing about the, you know we had for opiums right we had slides they had slides that don't actually work for real. So I do agree with Kathy that I think that the recording of the interview is more successful, because we get to hear you all explaining. You know what it is people are looking at on the screen so I think that's a better people will, I think people will find the just the PowerPoint that you made but thank you for making it. I think less successful. Yeah, I agree. I agree. But don't forget that you know we had several others the community, kind of listened to all the interviews so if someone's interested they will go there. So I'm, I'm looking around the room and I don't see any other comments so I want to, if there aren't any, I will send out by email potential meeting dates in January I see Jonathan's hand just went up so I'll stop talking. You talk, Jonathan. It's just it just quickly to return to something I think that that Tamara touched on. I'm not looking for this today but curious when, at which of our next upcoming meetings will kind of have a sense of when that that schedule public outreach, we kind of presented it in a tentative way, so that we're thinking ahead to that. I think Jonathan that should be the next thing so we'll just figure out the in January if we can still, if this eight o'clock in the morning on Thursdays works. I think we can tentatively say that first week in January, we will get a, here's some, here's a suggested way of working coming out to Amherst, and I know one of the issues Mike is going to be. I want small groups, can there be small group in person meetings in the schools at all, you know, I mean, you know what is, what is our with mass with proof of immunization with, with whatever pieces we want to do. And then some of this higher level of a graphic that says you know here's at least some things we want to think about about sites so if there's a talk with the community you have something to bounce off so I think. Aiming for, if, if, if I see, I'm looking around the room but I also Paul if this poll poll if eight o'clock in the morning on Thursdays works will aim for that very first week having some concrete scheduling and will market will just work with the board of directors on what their suggested way of doing it and we work with Mike to say what's feasible on our end, particularly with teachers with schools. And Mike, you have a comment on that too. Yeah, the short story on the in person stuff is things get a lot easier if the meetings are occurring well after the school day. The current policy is that no visitors during the school day except there's a couple of exemptions this would not fall under one of the exemptions. But if we are talking about after the students have gone then we were able to get more flexible granted. Things aren't looking wonderfully in the state right now and we may have to backtrack on that hopefully we don't. You know we have had the capacity to do things when students aren't present that we just aren't willing to do during the typical school day so that generally works well because that's when you'd want to have meetings not when the buildings are full it's hard to find space and all that so you know that's something assuming that you know we kind of write our track right now in terms of coven in Massachusetts that we would be able to think of ways to do that safely I mean for forums they're almost too big but our regional middle school and high school auditoriums have good ventilation, they're very large spaces so people can be very distance and that's generally what we've been using for even for meetings that pre covid we wouldn't think to have in the auditorium just because we don't have that many people coming to them, but it just ticks all the boxes. They're both very easy to access, especially the middle school one you go in the side entrance and it's right in front of you so you're not tracking through the whole school which just, you know makes sense so in terms of being in Fort River and Wildwood that's perhaps a bit more complex. There's not, there's not necessarily the great setup for this kind of thing we could use the gyms which have their own entrance but it's not a hospitable environment right that's why we're all here. So, you know, but I think I think we can think about doing some in person ones with some protocols in place in spaces that'll work and to Donna and others on the team that they work really well for presentation middle school in particular is not getting into the weeds of it it's a wide auditorium so it works really well because you can have a lot of people and everyone feels close. High school is very narrow and long so while it's larger it's actually just feels like it's, you know, people feel very far away from the presentation and I know based on what I've seen of your style you'd like to be interactive and it's hard to be interactive when people are a great distance away so that's something we could certainly again, you know, given the numbers we all have to track that we could do just just not really during the course of the actual school day. Okay. So we'll also get make sure to disco knows when the school day ends, you know, when those are and then just work so Jonathan I think we can. We can aim on its January 6 is the that first Thursday will aim on having a schedule then not just talking about it. Yeah, Mike. This is a holiday that celebrating the school says three Kings Day so that doesn't work if we could do a different day that that day it's a day off and we've made it a true day off so. Okay, so then I need to. Well, I'm free every morning, but whether the fifth, you know whether the fifth works so we, if we need to shift them, the meeting time or date for our committee, we should just discuss that but does, I'm just going to look around. So the fifth work then. Yes. Okay, so we'll say January 5 then at 8am meeting and I see Sean's hand is up and I think I know. Well, I'll show on. I don't think you know what I'm going to say at all. Okay, we do we do have if you're thinking invoices we do have an invoice at some point but I did have a question. The other working group or subcommittee we talked about having was a sustainability group, and I'm interested in Margaret or Donna's opinion on when, when would be a good time for that group to convene or be formed. Now. That would be great. There's some other ones to Sean so thank you I think I think we, you know your community best you know what maybe maybe even as an outcome of the last meeting, right where people's interest lie, but we can see sustainability being one subgroup, and traffic could be another. I don't know if that has anything to do with it another one which we haven't necessarily talked about, and was a big issue on another consolidation project was the disposition of the school that isn't going to be used. They felt that that conversation occurred way too late in the process that it should be thought through as as we go through. There may be others but we are ready we've already started a conversation about geothermal with our team so we love to engage you before we start going down a rabbit hole. So Kathy or Margaret. Should we make that an agenda item at the next meeting and I guess how do we go about nominating people to because I think there's going to be people maybe on this committee that want to be on that subgroup but then there's going to be sort of our local experts or we have a sustainability coordinator for example who might want to be involved. So how do we go about sort of nominating people or recommended people for that committee. I think that's a, it's a good suggestion maybe for people to come with names, you know and for example, when talking with someone who's going to be newly on the council she mentioned that the head of our conservation committee is a hydrologist. And so knows a lot about, you know, but where water tables, geothermal and Jonathan probably has a list so I think what we're talking about is people who know net zero who have either been building along this line and up a very small group so I think we, Sean, maybe if people send some names in by email to me, if they're not names that I already would have and we will ask the ECAC group as well, well because we have a active climate action committee with people with these kinds of expertise on it and we're talking about a pretty small group, but that would be seen in Amherst as proponents and knowledgeable about this range of issues and real supporters of this being a model, not just a model school but a model building for the whole town. I mean this, there's a lot of pride in the fact that we put this bylaw on the books. We are aiming for this. And Paul, I see your hands up. Thank you so yeah I think before we start naming names we should sort of clarify what are the committees, the subcommittees groups that we want and what we want them to do. You know, do we want members of the committee and other members to be members you know because we mentioned a sustainability working group and outreach group traffic group. I think we should start to first say what are the support structures this committee needs or the building committee needs to continue our work to inform the decisions that this group is going to have to make because this is a really important group in terms of decision making. So I think we want to sort of say are we looking at three people on a sustainability group or 10 or seven. What is that number, what do we want them to do is it is an advisory group. You know, let's let's sort of like frame out what we want them to do before we start throwing names around because it might make a difference if you have an hydrologist on one versus a building expert on one. So we just want I think let's the next meeting should be like what is our support structure for our committee here. I think that's a really good thing to bring up though. So we will, that, of course is wise it's coming from Paul, who's worked on his luck. So we'll, we'll come up with boxes and talk about this in much a much more concrete way, but I think it is all just in your minds be thinking about who do we know who's active so if we say are three enough. It's not necessarily right away going to the names. But just just I think we want to say what are the, and this is Donna Donna and Margaret will help us with this. What are the typical support structures like the information about the disposition of the school was really instructive because I thought oh that's after the fact but that's going to be key to what help people think about things in the building a location. So I think that that's, you know, what are the different groups that we think we're going to need and they may not all get formed at the same at right away, but just so we know, we can present as being well organized. I think it's also important to send the message that these things aren't being discussed, you know behind closed doors that there's an opportunity for input with other people. The one thing that I will say is that I think any subgroup has to have a building committee member on it so that it's there's also, you know, just a capacity issue for all of you. I think there are some people here who would like to be on several like Jonathan I think of you like, you know, community, you've had great comments back community engagement, I think you're interested. But there is a capacity piece and to me it feels like the building committee folks should be with the design team and myself, engaging the subgroup and then bringing that back here so that that's the piece of structure that I care about. Yeah, and just to jump on that too. We need to be aware that when we create these as this committee creates the groups and those groups are public bodies they have to post their meetings they have to keep minutes, all those things so there is that sort of other administrative piece that goes along with creating a new group. Yes, Mike. Just a clarifying question and Paul's point, not to discreet just to better understand I know would those be subcommittees or they be working groups. Because I think they're there's potentially distinction and I'm not I'm not pushing one of the other I just want to raise the question because I'll get asked it. Well, I want to strongly lobby for working groups, not subcommittees. There's no substance. I don't believe there's a sub functional difference between the two terms. Whether it's a whether they call it's a committee, if it's a body created by a public body that body is subject to the open meeting law. I still think it would be better to call them. Everyone call it yeah. Working. Okay. Sean did remind me that's what I thought I was you were going to do is that we have to approve an invoice is that correct. And then we need to do that before I open it up for public comments. And I'm just, are we ready to move to that much more housekeeping. Yes. You want me to go ahead and share the invoice on screen. So this is the invoice for October and Margaret. I assume Ramona is the your assistant project manager. She is. Yeah. So that's the only sort of new element to this invoice but it makes sense. And the rents are consistent with the, with the contract. I will say what Ramona did here was she was making the reference calls and creating the documents that we're required by the MSBA to create to summarize reference checks. So do I hear a motion to I'll make a motion I make a motion to approve the invoice. Is there a second. Okay. Okay. I have to do. So I need more and you have to take it down from the screen so I can see who we have. And so just approve or just prove Paul. Yes, approve. Sean. Both. Mike. Jonathan. Approve. I'm going to open it up for public comments, which will be. I'm just looking at the attendees to see if anyone who has their hand up. And I'm not seeing. Yes, approve. Ben. Approve. Tamara. Steve. And Kathy's approve. That's unanimous. So thank you. Thank you, everyone. I'm going to open it up for public comments, which will be. Any hands up. Wait a second. Apparently not today. Thank you very much. Dinesco team for joining us. And I, I personally can't tell you how excited I am to have. The project start and to have a leadership team coming. You know, both listen, but move us along. I think there is, as Mike said, there is an anxiety of we all want this school. But we want a school that we will love for years to come. And that works really well for the kids. And that achieves the various high performance goals we've set for the building itself. And I saw in one of yours, I think the building itself, the engagement of the kids, both when it's going up, but once it opens, we think this will be one of their project based learnings that this was will be a climate. A climate action thing we've taken as a town and we should be thinking about that all the way because that's one of the things I think that will engage families and why this is such an exciting project. So thank you very much. And I look forward to seeing you again on the 14th. And maybe in between we can get some feedback through Margaret on the various kinds of working groups we talked about. So you can give us some input on what structure you think might work well as Paul suggested. So and then we can talk about times and meetings in January. So when we come together on the 5th of January, we'll have a meeting on the 18th of January and we'll have a meeting on the 8th of January. And we'll be able to have the meeting on the 8th in the morning. We have concrete suggestions that the committee will look at. And so we can move quickly to getting to a plan. An action plan. That sounds great. And you know, we'll probably maybe have some background conversations with locations and what might work or whatever. But so. You will be hearing from us frequently. We communicate frequently, which is important to us. And I think we'll be able to do that. And I think we'll be able to do that. And I think we'll be able to do that. Thank you. Welcome to. The Amherst community. Thank you so much. Next.