 Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly. Joining me as always is my constant co-host. He's never missed an episode except for all of those episodes. It's Tom. What's up, buddy? How you doing? What episodes? Hello friends. Right. Well, it's just no no idea what I'm talking about. Yes. I got it. I got it. As usual, we are late because Tom is on the show again. He's back and co-hosting so hence now we're late again. That's not my fault. Oh, no, I'm not taking the fall for this one. No, we were just talking and got talking. That's all of this. Also joining us, very happy to have him back on the show. David Griffin, TO of NashCon and the sexiest man in American Warhammer. What's going on, David? How you doing? I'm doing alright. Thanks. Love that intro. Though I do, after having met a few people at NashCon, I think I think I might be getting a little long in the tooth. I think I'm getting phased out. It's might be time to retire you. You're the liberators of Sexy Warhammer. I got some new vindictors rolling out somewhere. I'm the poor night-questor. They're just putting out the pasture. Sure, absolutely. But night-per-albore. That was my next one. Tom, we'll come back to that one. We'll get to it because we're talking Stormcast 2021 tonight. I am very excited. I'm in the middle of building a Stormcast army. And so this is like I'm in for both of these books because I love both of these armies so much. We had a huge lengthy discussion over which book to do first and end up being Stormcast. So so stay tuned for that. We're gonna go through the book in detail. So much detail. Eye-bleeding detail. And somehow keep the show to three to three and a half hours at most. Tom, take us to the news. Rumor engine? Yes, there is a rumor engine up. What kind of elf is this, Tom? It looks like... It is definitely an elf. It is definitely an elf. Like that hilt with like the lion mouths on it. I think that this is... I want it to be a Tyrion elf. But it's not. It's like an underworld's elf. Correct. David, what do you think? He's muted. Yeah, I was trying to find the stream because I don't actually know what you're talking about. So maybe come back to me. That's fine. No issue. It is yes, it is it is clearly an elf pony tail. You can see like the elf ear, the elf sword, the elf things. There's elf things. I agree. It is a war cry or underworld or something elf, which is cool. As we'll talk about in another in a news item here in a moment, we are expecting to see some exciting new war cry stuff in about two days. So maybe it's part of that. Yeah. Go ahead, David. Oh, yeah, that's just having now getting a chance to look at it and a little behind. Yeah, I agree. I think I think it's insane some war cry stuff would be really interesting. I think that's a really good way of getting some alternate sculpts and some different styles of units that we don't, you know, have ready potentially. Yeah, whether you actually play a war cry or not, I think it's always great to have alternate builds. Agreed. And here's what I'll say. Tom, you could be right with despite yourself. What I mean by that is it could be a tyrannic elf. Because you're saying if we got the warband first before we got the actual army. Yeah. The first place we could see, in fact, I would go so far as to say that the first place we will see tyrannic elves, Tyrion-specific elves, other than the ones we've already seen already. Like, there are people in Luminath right now that are like the guy on the pony, the weird antelope pony is like the second in command of Tyrion's army. To Tyrion's army, yeah. So, but like the first tyrannic guy we'll see that is tyrannic itself is going to be in war cry or underworld or something like that. That's how they'll put it out. That's how they'll give us a little taste. Just give it a little bit in there. Just get you going. Revved up, ready to run. Maybe. I mean, I think it'll like I think we'll see glimpses of them for sure in some of those spaces. Sure. We've got lots of calls of people wanting it to be dark elf stuff, so I can see, you know, that'd be nice. I just wouldn't see the lion heads being on the dark elf thing. That's the problem. Right. I don't think I don't think that Malerion uses lion insignias. I am excited for whatever he ends up being though. All right, what's our next thing it is? We have an announcement show this weekend. We do. It's at GenCon. They just like randomly threw this out there that they're now going to do a reveal show at GenCon. So are you going to be there? I am. Yeah, I'll be there. I went and bought my little ticket. It's like two dollars for effort, which is hilarious, like, okay. Because I was already going to be at GenCon. I leave tomorrow morning, so Okay, like I'll go to your show afterwards. No, because there's no AOS stuff in it. We already know there's no AOS stuff. What will be there that we know there's underworld stuff and war cry stuff. So there's there's like, you know, Sigmar adjacent things, but no AOS proper. So yeah, but I'll check it out and be there. Be fun. So that will be fun. We obviously I'm bearing the lead here. So we got an app. We did get an app. Yeah. The new app launch today. You sound all sad about it. It wouldn't let me log in. I was having log in issues. Oh, why? Like, do you have a forge rolled account? That's what screwed me up. I had to go fix my fourth world account. Like I do and it wouldn't take my stuff. And so like, I need to go back in and it's like, sorry, server's busy. But I'm just like, I don't have time for this. Gotcha. For me, I did I got a little dodgy with the forge world thing, because I had to tie all those accounts together. But then once that was done, I logged in and it was easy. And it was actually pretty nice. David, what did you think? Yeah, it's fine. I I embarrassingly had to spend a lot of my morning updating my phone because I don't have the most recent version of iOS on my phone. And so I had to spend forever offloading my phone so I could download the update so that I could download the app that I thought was definitely a beta. Definitely. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it's fine. I think it's going to do it. It's good. It's going to have to do a lot to convert me over from my Lord and Savior, War Scroll Builder. Nothing is going to do that. Nothing is going to do that. Look, I'm going to give you the straight story here. I loaded it up and I was like, OK, let's see how this works. I looked at all the rules like for the armies. And now they did it, which it was cool. It has all the old books in it and all the old rules for all the old books. You can look at all the old artifact, like everything that hasn't isn't the two new books that are being published here that are coming out this weekend, right? Everything. OK. So, you know, we had you've got all your old books, rules, artifacts, command rates, sub factions, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, all the monsters, Arcanum and Forge World stuff. It's got the FAQs in there. Great. And I was able to navigate that stuff pretty easy. I will admit, I kind of liked the old scroll through the pictures thing better than the new way of going down. But I get why they built it like that. It's hard. It's a lot of information. I get it. It's tricky, you know, and this let them nest more information underneath. So whatever. The filtering is pretty good. I wasn't sad about that. To me, it's like the worst girl part of it that will probably remain free was like a solid B plus. OK. The army builder part of it that I will never use anyways and do not care, even in the slightest about was like a good C, maybe C plus, a lot of little issues with it, a lot of like you can't add this thing properly. And this doesn't recognize this is about a line and all of that. I mean, look, I am a diehard. I'm a Tony P. Stan will be forever. You know, whatever that man needs, he's got from me in a heartbeat because. War Scroll Builder is our one true Lord and savior. All praise be War Scroll Builder. But I don't understand why they're still making an army building tool in the app. I don't like I have a higher. I can't add work lightning vortex to my KO army in the app. But I can't work for a builder. There's a lot. There's a lot of no hit. No, it's been modeled. It exists now. It's a thing. Yeah, I think I think that's just whoever designed the app, taking a strong hand and trying to do what's best for the universe. But anyways, like, you know, like I didn't have it crash at all. It worked fine for me. I played around in it for like 30 minutes and it was it was fine. I could look at the scrolls. I could look at the rules. I was like, OK. Neat. You know, like that's fine. I don't use the army building. So I don't have a good review other than to say I used it for a lot of basics. It's fine. But clearly, there's a lot of bugs still in the army building site. So for a beta, I average those two scores out to a B. You get a B. It's like not bad. B for beta. So it was OK. Almost failing in graduate school. Yeah, I mean, OK, that that just is a creep of expectations. But anyways, it was it was a solid B. And, you know, it wasn't the 40 K launch. So that's it. It could have been better. Yeah, also that that also that. But yeah, was it good? Sure. It was OK to good room for improvement. But it's not starting off with like terribly right. I didn't immediately. It didn't burn my eyes out of my head. Or maybe I just want to be like, God, why? You know, James says, will the war scrolls stay free? The war scrolls for the new SE aren't on the website. Assumingly, yes. Now, they've been kind of cagey about this. So they didn't put up the war scrolls on the website with the preorder. I don't know if they're going to put them up when they go live and launch. Maybe that's what they'll do with the download section. Maybe they'll just cut the download section completely and have you go only to the app. I don't know. I hope they keep the the. I hope they keep the stuff on the website. I like that it's on the website. I like that the scrolls are there. But yeah, everything they've said in the marketing seems to be basically saying that the scrolls are going to stay free, that the basic rules of the basic scrolls of the game stay free, which, by the way, would be in line with them giving away the core rules for free, which they also did. Right. You can also just get the core rules for AOS free. It would be weird for them to give away the core rules and not have scrolls for free. Because then you'd be like, wait, what? What do I do with this? How do I play this game? Right. So either you're either you're trying to get people to look at your stuff or not. So I assume the scrolls will stay free and the army builder will get tied to your Warhammer Plus account. So, you know, that that would be that seems to be what they're saying, if you like read between the lines. But boy, oh, boy, it'd be nice if they just came out and were clear with it. Wouldn't that be great? Just be clear with it, guys. Tell us what the plan is here. Can't imagine. So whatever. But anyways, yeah. So the app, B, keep working. You'll get there. Green with that. Yeah, that's that's that's all I have to say. You've done better. I mean, you know, look, you didn't fail. It's fine. You've done better and worse. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. And then finally, we have the next round of the work and stuff going up on pre-order. Yes. So, man, that vulture. He's real good. I have a question for you, Tom. You know what that question is? Mm hmm. Where are my dragons, Tom? Where are my dragons? OK, I want to know. And very bad TV shows. I need the I like this. I'm trying to get this army done for the first week in November. These guys take forever to paint. Just put me behind the eight ball here. They are just really going to try to kill me. Yeah, you have like eight weeks. Not even though I have like seven now, maybe eight. Don't say that because that means that I'm way behind on my army. Yeah, we have a seven week, Tom. So there you go. That's that makes me a little bit more anxious than I should be. OK, any models I'd like for habit? One, one, how are we coming up? Awesome, I didn't know you were coming up, man. Fantastic. Oh, it's going to be this is going to be a banger. Oh, I'm so excited. Yeah, me and Picasso are going to come up. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Oh, yeah. That's going to be great. Oh, my God. Still settling out exactly what the arm is going to be. But I think probably cities in Stormcast. Nice. Cool. That's that's a good combo. Sounds familiar. Well, yeah, that's what we're doing. Well, I have a strong feeling you're going to be way more way more teared at that, like, told other than us. I'm just bringing what I've got. It's interesting. I would put that idea away. Yeah, I mean, like, because I'm just I'm like, this is about what what can I get painted at 13 hours of 12 hours of model? So, you know, we're on a long road here. We all know what Vince is taking. Yeah, Rackast Dragons. Dragon Rackast, how much non dragons is in there is going to depend on how much delayed these stupid dragons are. And then I am going to take elves, all the elves. Well, like, so I my army, my army will literally look like it came out of eighth edition. High Elves is I am doing as I'm buying as few models as possible, kit bashing as much as I can and only bought like two boxes of models. Oh, which happened to be Seminoles. There you go. All the Seminoles. All right. Yeah, that everybody loves what we're playing, Chad. So let's keep going. What else we got? OK, that's it. I mean, there's a couple of small news items. The The Slaves of Darkness rewrite from the White Dwarf did leak by the by. Yep. So we saw that like Coltas became General Batterline as long as they can take marks, as well as the Dark of War Queen and the Ogreid Miramodon and stuff like that. So that was cool. They did not rewrite the marks rules. Much to all of our surprise. So the Zinch mark continues to be real good for reasons that none of us can fathom, but they decided to just keep those. That's good for you, Vince. Yeah, great. Absolutely. Yeah, Ogreid, Miramodon, Darkarth, War Queen and the Dark of Chieftain can all take a mark. And then if the Coltas is given a mark of Chaos Keyword, it has the battle battle line battlefield role as long as it matches the general. So there you go. They also got new battalions, which are. Both completely forgettable as we're seeing with most of these battalions that aren't giants. Apparently Giants got the old good ones. So good stuff. I mean, they needed it. They were really struggling in the current meta. So I was happy to you love to see it. That was pull them up. Yeah, exactly. I mean, they've needed a hand. And then, of course, they got in the ongoing train wreck of the biggest mistake GW's design team has ever made, which we will talk about more tonight. They got their own grand strategy and battle tactics, none of which are that good. So none of which you would probably take over the existing options. So there we go. Yeah, so happy to see that in the Tome Celestial. Very surprised they did not redo the marks. Only other news thing was they released the Total Warhammer three thing, which you don't often talk about, but somebody asked for the opinion, my opinion on it. I don't play video games. So I have no opinion on it. I don't care about Total Warhammer. I don't care about anything that's in this game at all. Cathay was never interesting. Not China isn't interesting. It's as uninteresting as not Germany and not England and not France and not Italy. They're all an interesting because they're all just not their version of the world thing. But it was very pretty. Art and the game designer certainly did an amazing job with the art. I think that whoever does the art direction for those games and the sort of modeling and that kind of stuff is top notch because they are those were gorgeous and stunning. And I loved their realization of the world. I thought it looked very beautiful. That is my opinion. Vince is being negative. It looked amazing and it made me want to play the game, even though I know the game is nothing like that. David, any thoughts on Total Warhammer? Yeah, I mean, I haven't played a Total War game myself. I did really like those types of games back in the day, but I haven't really just don't have time. The art looked really cool. I mean, it's compelling. It makes it makes me wish I could play those games, but. I haven't seems cool. Yeah, I got I got painting to do here, folks. OK, like, you know, I got I got painting. I don't have time to sit around here. So why aren't you painting? There we go. That's so for those that don't know, that's a video game reference. It is. Warhammer online to Warhammer online. Yes, you'd click. You'd click the one guy in the city and you'd go like white fighting. Yes, correct. All right. So anyway, so let's get on to our pick of the week. David, we'll start with you. Yeah, sure. So I've got two. One is going to be, you know, played. I messaged you on Twitter, but I don't know if you saw it. I got there, but they're already in the comments, my dog. Oh, perfect. Great. So I'll direct everybody to Vince's color theory videos. He's got a whole series where he goes through color, like one color in depth and then did another video where he goes on their color, et cetera, et cetera. I think it's a kind of background in my background in design. I went to school and learned about color theory in depth. And there's things that I learn something new every time I watch the videos. And I think it's really helpful for painting because it really teaches you to think differently about depth and ways to kind of alter color to bring, you know, more interest, visual interest to a piece. I think in particular, I use some of the some of that color theory work on the purples I'm doing on my Lumineath, kind of learning how to deepen shades using different colors to do different things. So cooler colors in the recess is warmer colors towards the highlights, all that kind of stuff, really interesting work, really, really enjoy it. And then the other one I have is the season of war bad reps. I think they are great for kind of learning the game, also kind of seeing competitive armies. They do a pretty good job of showcasing some of the more some of some popular armies and they look really great on the table. Their tables look gorgeous. So direct you to those. Nice. Nice. Well, I appreciate the shout out. Thank you. And I will second your season of war. Absolutely. It's great stuff. Both are already linked down in the description. Tom, what do you got for us, buddy? Yeah, Paul Conti, friend of the show, Radio Free Hammerhole, put up a video today on the new the new app and his kind of thoughts on it. And it's a nice 10 minute 10 minute dive into the new app. You heard us kind of talk about it. And I would encourage you all to go check out Paul's video. Nice. I agree. I watched that video before we did this today. And my picks, if you don't get enough Stormcast content in your ear holes from us tonight, while there are two, two, two additional videos, you can go watch people breaking down very different opinions, probably, than what we'll have. Well, at least one of them is. And but both bring their own nuance and charm to it. One being the honest wargamer in his review, which boils down to, I think, just by dragons and apparently nothing else in the book is worth anything. I kid you, Rob, I love you. But that is kind of his point. He and I have extra, like as I was watching the show, I was texting him and just being like, I could not disagree with you more. This I like this your your whole theme is wrong. You're wrong. I was like, we got to get a show going. So I got to get one here. I'm going on his show. We're going to we're going to debate this out. I love the man. It was great. It was a good show. And then at the same time, Face Hammer, did their detailed review today, which was also really good. So the Face Hammer crew there went through it and I thought gave some really nice appraisal of some units and of the various components talked about some neat strats and things like that. So both of those are linked in the description if you want to go shove even more stormcast in your face. OK, gentlemen, let's turn to hobby time. Uh, David, since the tournament, you've been able to work on anything. I know you've been super busy. You got any had any had any hobby time at all? Yeah, a little bit, a little bit here and there between real life stuff. I've been working on some blade lords for a minute. Some kind of cool stuff here. He's a little birdie dude. So yeah, some kind of fun stuff. And I kind of came to a realization at some point during my. Painting that I was really I'd gotten where I was painting everything into like a competition level, high, high quality, really killing myself for no good reason. And so I kind of have gone off and diverted to paint like speed paint, a bunch of D&D models. I think it's just kind of as a fun palette cleanser to paint different stuff that isn't GW isn't going to a tournament. No one's going to see the people in my in my house. And, you know, just that's been actually really fun and fulfilling to do. So I've been spending a lot of time painting up some stuff for that. And yeah, that's that's about it. Aside from aside from a mountains of terrain for Nashcon that I'm surrounded by right now on all sides, I'm pretty hemmed in. But it was beautiful. The terrain came out so it was when I did my show. There is a lot of talk of the terrain on the aether gas. Because I had photos of setup and that all the train was front and center. They were marvelling on that dark Elf table on that first like table fourteen or whatever, the how big the one like house was in the corner. They're like, you can hide an ironclad behind that. And I was like, uh-huh. They're like, is that what you did? And I was like, nah, I just went first. Sure. Yeah, we were we were comparing the tallest pieces. And there there were some pretty pretty tall ones in there. I think, uh, in retrospect, some of the pieces were too big with the with the table size change. I think the table size change really kind of messed up how they get positioned. But, you know, whatever, it was all good. Honestly, I found it wonderful. And I mean, I was playing a shooting army, so I should go and be wanting flat open tables, right? Like, sensibly, that's sure. But there was a lot of big terrain on tables I was on. And it was great. It made you have to think more and like position carefully. And, you know, it was fun. Like they did what terrain is supposed to do, which I like. Yeah, so shout out, of course, to crazy horses in the chat who was obviously your partner in crime, both at the tournament and also in the terrain making. So yeah, for sure. And there are a bunch of guys who did who did painting aside from me. Austin Fletcher was one of the guys who painted a bunch of stuff. Had a bunch of other guys this year. A man of culture and iron jaws player. Yes, absolutely. Of course. Yeah. Of course. And apparently someone who likes to win now in the new in new edition. Yeah, there you go. With the new iron jaws book. Yeah, save it for next week. But yes, it's a good day to be an iron jaws player. We did it again, boys. We did it again. Anyways, OK, so awesome. Great. Love it. Tom, you've been hobbying. I know. I have been. So I like, I realized a dream today. Like, like I have been conceptualizing this unit. Do I need to queue up? Lay Mizorab here? Or what? What are we doing? No, but can I do a screen share online? Is that possible? No, because it'll it'll get weird if you if you if you try to screen share. Like it like, OK, I'm not going to add another stream. I'll show you what it'll look like sometime offline. We can see if I can. That sounds great. But the appropriate thing to send to me pictures beforehand to think. Hey, I said I did. I sent it to the group chat. I sent as a group chat. No, so I I have long dreamed of remaking of kit bashing the maidens of the Everqueen. Do you remember those metal figures that were like really nice elves? Because there was the handmaiden that was done, but they never actually like had a unit. They just had a Euro edition, but sure. Right. But like they haven't had plastic. They never did plastics. They never did like an update of that model. Yeah, I still have them. Yeah. Yeah. So what I wanted to do was I wanted to kit bash a plastic version of those. Sure. And like I spent years dreaming about like what the combination of bits we're going to look like. And like I got them done. That's right, folks, they are done. And so I am so happy with these girls. You can't see them. And that's fine. Just tweet out the picture, Tom. Tweet out your picture. Yeah, I will. I'll tweet out the picture and the shields aren't on there. But like I have just the exact number. Do you remember like years ago when I was trying to gather shields? Like a certain Hile shield, which is like the heart that I've learned. Right. Exactly. It was for this unit. And so finally, like this project that I'm doing for City, for Havoc, was a perfect excuse for me to kit bash to create this unit that I've been like gathering bits for and doing all the things for. And like I went in and like carved, you like used like carved the chess pieces from Sisters of Avalon to fit the molding of the cloaks of the Phoenix Guard and then went into the Phoenix Guard because of the way that the cloaks clip on to the chess pieces. I had to cut those pieces off of the cloaks, shave the backs, attach them to the edges and then lay overlay the Sisters of Avalon chess pieces. Sure. Like I had to build arms for these spears. And the spears aren't just normal spears. They're the three pronged spears that you only got in like a handful of kits that are very like the the rarer elf spears. So like they like the Dragon Lord had one and then the like the chariot had one, you know, like. So I had to gather all those for the unit and like this is like collecting Japanese full art. Yes. Cars, isn't it, Tom? That's what you're on about in Magic. Like it like it but but it's done and I have a 10 man unit. I will never like the cost to make another 10 of these girls would be like three hundred dollars because of the cost of bits now. But I have a 10 man unit and they are beautiful. And so I'll tweet out a photo and then I started building my sentinels. And so I have a bunch of headless sentinels right now because I don't have the head swaps that I need yet. Very nice. Well, congratulations, Tom. I'm glad that you're welcome. I'm glad that I pushed you to realize your dream by my partner with me from my storm cast. So you're I just wanted I wanted to not have to buy any models. And so I looked across my armies and I was like, what can I build from what I have? And it's like, OK, well, we're we're Peyton Hylson. Sure. For myself, it's been an extremely busy week of hoppy. I I did get a game in with the new iron jaws and love that. I'll talk about that more when we do the review next week for work work plans. So come back then. I got something painted specifically for a video, which won't be out for quite a while, but that's you'll see what that is. I'm working on a seeker project. I can't share right now. And I'm also working on my annihilator unit, which also you won't be able to see. But that's my this is one of my rack cast annihilators. You can see he's got a big old bonker. That's a big bonkin hammer. They have big bonkers. These are the big bonking mace fists out of the storm fiends, but now it's there. It's their bonker. So, yeah. And the more I work on the scheme, the more I feel good about it, although with all this other painting that's been going on, and then I can go into Gen Con tomorrow, I'm not going to be able to sit down and work on him anymore. And I'll probably have to start all over again, learn it all over again for the next one, but that's all right. OK. But yeah, so it's been a super busy weekend. And once I get that, that, those annihilators finished, I have like a little more than one to go. That'll be three units I have done in this army. I'll have like 500 points, Tom. I am well on my man. You are well on your way for havoc. I am really good. If they would just give me my stupid. I am not. Sure, well, such is life. All right. With that, gentlemen, have you mailed me my warlord? I'm supposed to mail you a warlord. Yeah, I thought Dan said that you're mailing that to me. Oh, he didn't give it to me yet. He was sick this weekend. OK, oh, got it. Yeah, he wasn't going to come over and infect me. So that was nice of him. So, yes, yes, he is. He is giving it to me that I'll mail it to you, Tom. Because I need my warlord continue. All right. With that, storm, cast, e, tur, nulls. Let's do this, gentlemen. Here we go. Boom, boom, storm cast 3.0. Now, before I jump to my summary slide that has my summary on it, I want to get both of your thoughts. David, I want to start with you. You're the guest. How do you feel about storm cast 3.0, the newest storm cast battle tone? OK, so I'll say this. I went to bed unhappy. I woke up less unhappy. And as I continued to read the book, I got happier. That's what I'll say. I think I'll talk more about specific things later, but I think to me it's kind of a tale of two kind of books to me where the newer things got a lot of love and are super cool and exciting. And if you're someone who owns an older collection, I think there's probably some reason to not feel as happy or as excited. But I think overall, it's a good book. It's great for beginners. It's great for entry level. I think there's a high ceiling and a pretty easy barrier to entry and plenty of power in the book. There's some pretty interesting builds, a few different ways to play the army. Not many things are bad. And there aren't, well, there are a few big, big winners, but the book doesn't have too many auto-includes. All right, Tom, what's your high level take? I feel that this book is essentially, it gets the same design principles and treatment that Sons of Bahamut did. And what I mean by that is that all of the war scrolls are kind of high powered. That's where the action is. They're just good, high function scrolls. Most of them have a distinct purpose, not all of them. But they are well-designed elements for the army, yet. And then all of the secondary rules, so all the faction rules and stuff like that, are low overhead, low mental load features that allow you to focus on your army rather than focusing on all the abilities that you need to remember. But at the end of the day, I think that it's the first book that we've seen truly designed for third edition ALS, and I'm thankful for it. Because to me, what the book says is that the designers were very self-aware, and they knew what the new edition was doing, and they knew that they needed to simplify the content of the armies, the content of allegiances, stuff like that, so that it's easier to see what's going on. And I think that that's what we're seeing. That's why we don't have command abilities on war scrolls anymore or anything like that, is that it's all of that is being simplified. And I think that most of the complaints are sticker shock or they're like addition shock, because it looks like they've lost a bunch, and they have lost some, but they've lost complexity. And people are fools if they think that all books aren't going to get this treatment. This is where we're going. And so this is as much a road map for the edition. And I think that people need to pay attention to that. And so I think that at the end of the day, a lot of people are going to be disappointed when their new books come, because a lot of armies have lots of toys on their war scrolls and lots of toys in their factions that are probably just going to go away. The two that I lament is when Daughters of Cain, when that rolls around, will be to them. Luckily, they were one of the last books, so it could be a really long time. Or Lumineth would be the other one. Like, will be the Lumineth when their update comes, because a lot's not going to survive that. Yeah, I think Lumineth, Doc, and Zeench are the three that I would call out as going to get hammered. I mean, Lumineth is objectively the most complex book from like it is just there's so much crap in there that doesn't have anything to do with the models. It's just tons of rules on top of rules on top of rules. And so that's my other army. And so coming from Lumineth to this new Stormcast book is like whiplash. It's like reading two different games. Right, right. Because they are two different games. They're different editions with different core rules. And so, yeah, I mean, this is where we're going. Okay. So I have a couple thoughts. One, I partially disagree with your premise. So yes, these books were both simplified. I don't disagree with that. But the Cruel Boys are still a very techie faction. They are. Okay. But most of that's on the worst rules. That's not on like abilities you're over. I agree with that premise. I'm just saying like lots of, lots of Cruel Boys stuff have pretty techie elements to them. Sure, sure. Now, here's how, here's what I saw. I don't know. We're all guessing based on a single data point, how the line is going to be drawn here. Two data points. We have two books. It's still a single data point because they were both written and released at the same time. Can I take what you mean? But that would only strengthen my argument because here's my argument. I love this book. I think it's fantastic. I think it's full of great options and lots of different ways to play. I think it is a beautiful new design for sub factions. Allegiance abilities are cleaner. Abilities themselves are cleaner. I think this finally feels like the army somebody could pick up and play and really shows the power of good design and action of fit to purpose design. Stormcast is the beginner army. This feels like I could read it and hand it to somebody who's starting the game without feeling like I'm murdering them. The sacrosanct chamber was a nightmare. A nightmare, okay? I cannot imagine handing somebody sacrosanct and saying like when it came out and being like, this is how your basic Stormcast, this is how you play the game. It's your intro faction. Are you out of your freaking mind, okay? These guys are finally built how a beginner, simple, effective, numbers-based faction should be. What I mean by that is they're good because the numbers are good. They're not good because- It feels like the- They're not good because of BS, they're good. It's the fighter class in D&D. Absolutely correct. Absolutely correct. There is nothing wrong with the fighter class in D&D. You know why he's good? Because he's got good numbers and basic abilities and he just punches people hard and he can take a punch back. And people, if fighter remains to this day the most popular class that people select, okay? Like every report I see out of D&D Beyond because it's a big database, they publish regular reports from. Every one of them has the basic fighter, champion fighter, the basicist of basic fighter as the most popular class subclass combination, okay? So having something that actually speaks to the basics and just works, especially as your intro faction is exactly how this should have been designed from the beginning. It took us almost seven years and we finally figured out how to design Stormcast correctly. All right, I'm not talking about their power level right now, I mean the design. As Skade said, it's just good fundamentals. It is good fundamentals. Now I think when I looked at Cruel Boys which is supposed to be the Trixie faction. Yeah, that's what they are. By the way, Cruel Boys have some pretty bonds or allegiance abilities. They do. More rests in there than in Stormcast, okay? And Cruel Boys don't have the numbers. Look at their basic troops and how they're costed. Like we're not talking Oryx but I'm just preview for next week, okay? They're a faction that relies on tricks. They're written more complexly because they're meant to be a more Johnny army. You don't design complex blue counter control cards in the same way you design green two for two beater bears. Right. All right, these are different things, right? And so to me, if this is the future of how books are gonna be designed where they're actually fit to the theme, purpose, form and function of the army then we're good. This is gonna be the greatest addition ever because the designers have finally figured out to stop over designing things that shouldn't be like that and fit the design to purpose. And to me, the distinction between old and new units, I don't buy it. I don't. I think that's all resting on the dragons which I think the dragons are a bit too good and I think there's still some units that are complete waste in this book but that's what you're gonna have in a 74 war scroll faction, okay? I think there is a ton of old units that are very good and competitive. I think if there's any problem in this book, it's that there's a few, it's all in points. Dragons need to go up a little bit. Couple other units need to come down a little bit. That's literally it and points is like the easiest thing to fix. But like why would anybody ever take a night at zero? We'll talk about, I didn't say every scroll is good Tom. Okay. We'll talk about, like we'll talk about the scrolls. We're gonna go through every scroll, okay? And as like I said, there are dead scrolls in here. No joke. There are probably 20 scrolls in here that I wouldn't even look twice at. Could they be called the dead sea scrolls? Ah, they're good. But like, and by the way, there's nothing innately good about simplification. Okay. Like I know that's not the argument I'm making. In an extremely complex addition, it is good to have a more simplified, you know, set of books. So like, if on the whole, we strip out some nonsense and keep things smoother and leave the tricksy-ness to the tricksy factions, then that's a good thing because it does let you focus on the extremely high complexity of the base addition. Okay. So fine. Fine on all that, right? But ultimately my argument has nothing to do with like, oh, it's simple. I know this was the thing Rob made. People are gonna say like, oh, like his point was, oh, people are gonna say they simplified and all this. Yeah, they did. That's not good in and of itself. What's good about it is it's form to function. This is meant to be the simple faction that relies on having good, strong numbers. And they do now. The number of three up saves in this book is crazy. Okay. It makes my head hurt. Like they are hard as a rock. There's a huge amount of Ren too. Good amount of Ren three, lots of multi-damage. They're on numbers, right? Like when you look at numbers, these guys have good ones, right? Okay. And ultimately to me, that's how a faction like this should work. Stormcast aren't tricks. They're thunder gods who teleport down on the battle and smash the crap out of anything in their way or hold the line against the innumerable hordes of chaos because they are the unbreakable wall of Sigmar's will made manifest. And that is what this book represents. Like 100%, that's what I feel reading this. Yeah. So if we get formed to function books from now on, like when we get the Zinch book, I don't think they'll strip much out of it. I honestly don't. I'm sure they'll simplify some stuff. But I think Zinch will still be a weird, tricksy, dumb, complicated nightmare because that's what Zinch is. He's the god of cheating. So I think that's what he'll basically still be doing. Right? And ultimately there is value to like keeping things tight and to having things be obvious and not having like memory tricks. A lot of what they cut out was things that are like, oh, if you activate this here, then some later ability triggers here. And in this weird situation on this six to wound on this one attack of this offhand and at the main thing you do, suddenly more stuff happens and yada, yada, yada, yada. Yeah, good. It's complexity. Cut that stuff. If I was the editor, let me tell you what folks, that crap would have never been in there to begin with. Okay, I would have cut it six years ago. So the fact that we're getting to it now is good. I think that's all, I agree with you. And that's kind of been my journey. It's my journey like getting to like a happier place. I think there's still some certain scrolls and we'll talk about them later, but that had rules removed inexplicably that I didn't think were like, they weren't like overbearing or hard or broken in any way. And they were just kind of like taken away from the scroll and it made the scrolls to me in some ways lose some flavor and interest because now there's no reason for them all to see the table. Yeah. Hades, they don't pay enough. And by the way, Hades, don't worry, I'm gonna turn you around on that on those prosecutors with javelins. You made a good investment there by the way, buddy. I saw your, I saw, I've been watching your chat. Don't worry. Like prosecutor javelins, that's a stonks. Those guys are, I'm living for those guys right now. There is some old stuff that is real treasures in this book and that was one of them. Okay. Prosecutors have never been better. Yeah, I absolutely agreed. Like the javelin boys, I'm in on them so hard. So if you just picked some up, well done. Well done. I'm gonna rip all the stupid hammers off of mine. Okay. So anyways, let's get into this. It's not a perfect book. I wanna end on that. This is far from a perfect book. I, there are lots of problems with a 74 war scroll of which 39 are leaders. I mean, that's insane. Right? So. There's just gonna be dead weight. Okay. A lot. But there's also plenty of options in here I think of different play style, okay? So, but we'll get into it. Let's get into the book itself. All right. Storm hosts and all that stuff. You have a storm host, whatever. You're gonna always pick one now because there's no downside to them anymore. We'll talk about that in a minute. Okay. So when you pick a storm cast, Arby, you either go for Scions of the Storm or Stormkeep and then you always have Blazeglory which if you're Thunderstrike you get a little tiny bonus too. Like, fine, whatever. I don't think that actually, like the Thunderstrike bonus, I wish they would have just cut that but I get why they did it to try to make some kind of difference there. It's an irrelevantly different number especially on the big wound models. It's like, instead of 12 rolls you get 13. Oh, that's gonna make the difference. You know, like maybe over a whole unit of Thunderstrike guys, it's five more dice if they all die so it's not nothing, right? But it is a fairly minimal bonus overall. Again, over the course of a whole game if you have all Thunderstrike versus all non Thunderstrike and you get tabled, sure, maybe you do an average of five more mortal wounds because of Thunderstrike so like it's not nothing, I guess. Right, but it's whatever. They're the GLA may now. I get it. That's a very old reference. We'll see if anybody gets that one. So Scions of the Storm is what it's always been. You put half your army up into heavens you teleport down, bing-bang. Stormkeep is one in four can be cities of Sigmar units. Yep, which is cool. In addition, you add one to the braver characteristic of friendly Stormkeep units, whether near any Redeemers. This is really the Redeemer type of faction. Like I think there are, there is definitely a Redeemer build that they want you to build and there are options for it. And I think it is strong and Shield of Civilization is doing a lot of that work where in the first and second battle rounds any friendly Stormkeep Redeemers, are Liberators, Vendictors, and... Sequiturs. Sequiturs, yes. Is it one of the big sword guys? Oh, yes, thank you. And what are they? What's the vanquishers? Thank you. Yes, or the other ones? Appreciate it. Yeah, the new big sword guys. We haven't even, like I forgot we saw those models until I looked in the book and read them. And I was like, oh yeah, they did preview those guys. What are those guys? Stormcast, Stormcast with luminous blade lords. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, just like, they previewed those guys and then we were like, okay, cool. And then we never, just nothing, just never mentioned them again. So, but anyways, in the first and second battle round your Redeemer units count as three models for the purposes of contesting objectives, whole or partially in your territory. From round three on, they count as three models everywhere when contesting any objectives. And in addition, if an enemy unit finishes a charge move within one inch of a friendly Stormkeeper Deemer unit, those within six inches of an objective you control, roll a die, on a three plus that unit suffers D3 mortal wounds. Okay, fine, sure. Need enough, I guess. But it's like that in addition is one of those things that like, we talk about simplification, I don't know man, I might have cut it. It probably would have been cut. It feels like it'll be forgotten. Yeah, yeah. A lot. But it's fine, it gives you a little, it gives you a little mortar wound impact. It'll make people less excited to charge low wound heroes and near your Redeemers if they're standing near objectives. That's what I'll say. Because this army, I think there's another build in here that has, that is the Splash Mortal Wounds build that's always been something Stormcast have played around with. And I think it's a very real now in this book. There is a lot of just do some D3 mortal wounds around everywhere in this book. And this is one of them. When all your units are little porcupines, it's not nothing. It adds up when it's every Redeemer unit near objectives. So, I don't have anything else to say about the allegiance abilities. Gentlemen, any thoughts between the two? They're both fine. This is my note. Yeah, I mean, I just, the thing I had to say about it was the Redeemer. And she said, was I think there's certainly like a shield of Sigmar build, right? Where you just build a bunch of dudes on foot that hold objectives and don't die and hurt you when you charge them, right? I mean, that's kind of like the, you know, I think that there's actually probably a pretty competitive build there. Yeah. Tom? It's fine. Yeah, they're fine. They're fine. They're fine. Like, yep, you can teleport or do this other thing. Cool, okay, great. Good, good stuff. Okay, command traits. So there are, these are bad for the most part. It's just gonna, I'm just gonna say that out of the gate. We did, we have clearly haven't nailed writing command traits yet. Now that we get to take them, they immediately wrote basically three that are not interesting. And one that you're gonna take every time depending on who you're, is in your army. So shock and awe, if your army is science of the storm and your general's on the battlefield at the end of the movement phase, subtract one from hit rolls for attacks that target friendly science of the storm units that were set up in that phase until the end of that turn. Basically the old shock and awe rule that they had in the previous book has now become a command trait. So it was pretty worthless before, but I guess it's okay now that you can, cause you can drop people on seven inches away. So you are more likely to land the charge and need the neg one to hit. So okay, it's fine. I give it a four out of 10. Stanch Defender is just super bad now, like super duper bad. Like the curse of it used to be good. This is the one habit that GW could not break themselves of. When something used to be really good and show up a lot, they just kick it in the teeth so hard. And I just do not understand that instinct. Like why? This isn't even like a model. This is just a thing. Unless it's Hagnar. Right. Somebody went to bat for Hagnar internally and was like, no, you won't touch my precious baby. Okay. So at any rate, Stanch Defender is terrible. I'm not even gonna read it. It does nothing. You don't take it. Next. But the next one is like new Stanch Defender. Yeah, but it's, yes, but it's very complicated to use. So if a friendly Stormcast Eternals, Envoy of the Heavens, if a friendly Stormcast Eternals model is slain wholly within 12 inches of this general, you can add one to save rules for attacks that target the slain model's unit until the end of that phase, the same unit cannot benefit from this ability more than once per turn. So to benefit from this, you have to have multiple units attacking that one unit. Right. The key is, the purpose is like, when you have an objective holding unit that you know that they're gonna try to peel. Sure, that they're gonna multi-charge. That they're gonna multi-charge or shoot, multi-shoot. Well, yeah, sure. It's like they have to peel that one unit, yes. Right, right. Sure. I mean, but what else are you gonna take? Well, I mean. The last one. The last one, or the Command Traits and the Core Rules, did you forget that there are generic Command Traits? Yes, I remember. Because we all remember there are generic enhancements, but we all forgot that there are generic Command Traits. And guess what? They're actually interesting in this army because there's a good one for priests and a good one for wizards. Mm-hmm. I actually really, I really like the master of the Celestial Menagerie. I think that one's amazing. Because it's amazing. Yes. I was gonna say, but they absolutely, that's the good one. It absolutely is. This one, I mean, is obviously so good. Like, it's too good compared to the other three I hate when they do this. Because yes, if this general's a monster and is on the battlefield, subtract one from moon rolls for attacks made with melee weapons, the target-friendly Stormcast Eternals monsters. So if your general's a Star Drake or a Knight or Conus or whatever, then or a Torlon guy, try and think of other monster writers, they could get it. I think that might be the three. There's probably another one, I'm forgetting, there's 80 million heroes. Then your Stormcast Eternals monsters, namely him, because he himself is a monster, and like the other dragon riders or whatever, also get Meg one to be wounded in melee, which is like really good. Super duper crazy, silly, good. Like I'm excited, because I'm making a dragon army, which by the way, I was making a dragon army, I was gonna make a dragon army. Regardless of how these rules came out, I've been talking about it for months. So hey, thumbs up for me, I guess. So great. But yeah, there are basic command traits in the core rules that honestly work really well with this army. Check them out. There's a good priest who had a good wizard one, and you often have priests or wizards in those kind of general worship roles, so. But yes, if you're running the monster boss, which I think is gonna be, the third build is obviously just dragons, right? The three, there are four builds in my mind. The Redeemer Tank build, also I'll just put them out right now and we'll see how true it proves. The Redeemer Tank build, the chip damage mortal wound build, the dragons, like all dragons, we'll call it the Daenerys Targaryen build, right? And then shooters, you know, he's a shooter, right? Like, shoot cast is still a thing. So, back to me, he feels like the four builds. Is the Torl on good now? Maybe, he's got, he's interesting. I'm gonna, we'll see. I'm gonna defend him a little bit. I promise, I can see the look on your face, David. I know, don't worry. It's a hard no for me. That's fine, we'll get there, we'll get there. I'll see if I can turn around a little. All right, artifacts, gentlemen, I have a question for you. Are any of these weapons good? The weapons, the first bar, are any of these worth taking under any circumstances, ever? I mean, Rural hits is good. Okay, the silence means no. No, they are not. They are not, they're not good. These, the weapons, the Stormforged weapons, poor. Poor showing, poor showing. There's no way, here's the bar, okay? It's this easy. It's this easy to say as an artifact good. Would you take this artifact instead of an amulet of destiny or an arcane tome? And if the answer is no, are you insane, then the artifact's not good. That's the bar, okay? Like, I didn't set the bar, they set the bar. They did it. So when you print a bunch of crappy artifacts and they fail to hit the bar, you said, this is the world, folks. I don't know what to say. The armor, however, I think there are choices. Now here, we've got some life. I think there are two in here that I think are interesting, at least. Drake scale armor, you can reroll saverals for attacks made with weapons that have a damage characteristic of two or more. Rerolling saves is very rare and very powerful in this edition. And if you have a big monster general, like a Star Drake or a Nitroconus or something like that, people are gonna point multi-damage weapons at you, usually with a high rend. So rerolling your saves is a good thing, like a very good thing, because it cuts down the damage you take immensely. In general, against like one damage attacks here that aren't gonna tend to be more than rend one, you'll be fine, like you can just shrug those, right? And then obviously the mirror shield. Oh, baby. That mirror shield, now we're talking. The bearer cannot be picked as the target of a shooting attack unless the attacking unit is within nine inches of the bearer. Incredible. Tasty. Take that, Sentinels. I was about to say, it's one of the few artifacts or one of the few abilities that turns off Sentinels. Most of them don't. Right, because most of them say you don't have line of sight and it's like Sentinels are like, well, we've got a bird. For some reason, this matters. Well, mirrors trick birds. That's true. Both of them fly right into it. Right, so it just doesn't work on Sentinels. Sorry, sorry, Bird. Yes, James is the best one, it's awesome. It's amazing. I love it. Great way to keep your general alive, fantastic. Love seeing this in there. James says, what does a D3 count as? Does it count as a damage characteristic of two or more? Great question. Do not know the answer to that. I would say yes, but I'm sure the FAQ will answer that question because I've seen it be asked like 50 times. I think somebody even asked it on Facebook somewhere. So like, if it's permeated that deeply, to me what it says is multi-damage, but they don't have the concept of multi-damage, but that's what they were going, right? There's no multi-damage word in the core. My answer is anything that doesn't read one. Yeah, yeah, exactly, that's right. Which should have been the way they phrased it, but whatever. The artifacts, the tempest, could be some interesting ones depending on your build and how many artifacts you have. I don't know. Like, luckstone to me stood out because you can just make a 12-inch charge, right? It gives you the Celestial, Celestial Prime ability, sorry. Yeah. So, pretty cool. Like, being able to say I am going to charge 12 inches right now is very powerful as anybody who's playing Zing will tell you. So, yeah. Anything else on the artifacts? Did I not mention anything? No, they're fine. Yeah, we got a couple good ones, which is fine. You got a couple options. Yep. So, that's cool. Let's see. Spells. All right, so we have Stormcast Eternal Hero Wizards, including unique units only. Which I like that they added that little text in there. Thanks. That's good. Now we don't have to refer to the FAQ. So, I guess the question is, any of these spells that stood out to you, y'all? What do you gentlemen like in the spell thing here? I don't want to just be me talking. I know I've got some mix. I've always been a fan of Azerite Halo. And so, I still like it because you're gonna often stack a bunch of defenses on like a dragon and throw it forward. Sure. And if you have your re-rollable save on multi-damage stuff, you know, like I love kicking back mortals. Like I used to love this obviously on the Lord Selston who had a re-roll once already with enough bonuses to bounce. But I still like it. On the Selston on Star Drake, he doesn't even already have this. It's like he couldn't trigger twice. Is this on his Thunder Shield? I believe it is already on his Thunder Shield, yes. When we get to it, his Thunder Shield is something like this, so yeah. I think it is. It's on... Well, we'll get there. We'll look at it. Let's... So the reason, so here's my pushback. Technically, their roll is not triggering an ability. Their roll is triggering your ability. And that's not how the stacking effect is working. No, it's the unmodified save roll that triggers it. But we'll get to it. We'll see what it says. It's not about the source. It's about what triggered it immediately. And it's an unmodified save roll of six. But anyways, yeah. I think Celestial Blades is interesting. Getting plus one to wound is good. It's not a buff that happens very often. So if you can get plus one to wound, it's particularly interesting. Yeah, yeah, agreed, agreed. And we should say all these, not all, but most of these spells and prayers are gonna have this little distinction that it's like 12 inches if a knight, 18 inches if a lord or draken. So there's sort of that distinction that occurs throughout the book, right? Yeah, I kind of like Starfall. It's some really interesting tech. I love Starfall, man. I'm excited about it. Yeah, a hundred percent. Because basically it like you pick an area and then each unit you roll a dice and on a three plus they can't make pylons until the end of that turn. So it's pretty restrictive because it's a single turn. It's still on a three up. It's still within a certain range, but not being able to pile in is a really powerful ability. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm mixed. I'm mixed on that one. It's really good. I hate having to roll to cast and then roll again to see if it works. That irritates me. It's about just having to do that. But I mean, it is really good. If you hit that bubble amongst a bunch of units, it could be really, really good. Yeah, where you shut off a bunch of people from piling it. Yeah, it is a pretty decent sized space. And it's only three inches out. It doesn't sound like big, but it's a six inch diameter on the board. It's a decent. I'd love to hit Knights of the Empty Throne with that. Sure. Right. Get them stuck in their weird, because they're on such a weird, they're trying like, oh, you can't pile in, you go from six to zero and you're stuck in your weird dumb formation that you have to stand in to try to be coherent, right? Yeah, it'd be great. Right. Well, it just that like, you don't get to participate in this combat because you set up six inches outside of combat and we're gonna pile in and we're like, nope, you don't get to play. Yeah. Like this turn. Yes. So, yeah, interesting spells. Like Thunder Shock School, the old plus one to wound, minus one to wound, both good. So, you know, the fact that you've got a couple of different sources of minus one to wound is nice. In the book, it's a very, very strong debuff. By the way, I have a couple of people have asked, where is Tyler? Tyler will be back next week. We've talked to what we're gonna do is we're gonna alternate week to week. Basically, in most cases, it won't always go exactly week to week, but there'll be alternations. Some weeks, it'll be all three of us. You know, it'll be a thing, but Tyler's still gonna be with us. So- He is part of the Warhammer Weekly broadcast team. He's part of the team now, that's right. Yeah, he's in the family. Yeah, I agree. I mean, the two damaging spells are the ones that I'm like, okay. They're whatever, it's fine. Stormcast don't do damaging spells well. I don't know what to say. But I think all of the other four all have some kind of interesting play. And I think stopping piling in is generally pretty strong. So, yeah. Prayers. Yeah, so- You have my attention. Yeah, all three of these are good, right? I mean, that's what we can say here. It's good to be a priest working for sickness. He gives good prayer. He gives good prayer. Rero wants to hit. Why? Hello. And not only are you not buffing your unit, you're debuffing their unit. So that debuff can benefit multiple units. Yes, this prayer is a very basic slanesh spell that like every slanesh caster in the army gets all of the basic heroes do that spell that gives you Rero wants to hit. And it's real good. It's the same thing. Literally the exact same thing. You put it on a target unit and then anybody who attacks them gets Rero wants to hit. They're stealing slanesh's prayer here. So there you go. So yeah, translocation, answer value of three. All these are answer value threes now, which is good. Range of nine inches, if you're a knight or 12 inches, if you're a lord, you can pick a friendly unit and teleport them. It does not, at the moment, bar you from moving afterwards. That's gotta get a fact. I think there's no way that that's intentional. Will it stay? That is the question. I tend to come down with you, David, but I've also seen some arguments that maybe it won't. It seems silly that they would still allow movement afterward. That just, it feels like the biggest oversight, but I don't know. Yeah. They just left out the line. Yeah. I think they just left out the line and didn't catch it. I don't know. Do we know how they write these rules? I think it'd just be really strange if they didn't. It's weird. And then catechism of murder. I mean, bless weapons. Right, yes, exactly. Yep, and then catechism of bless weapons, yes, correct. Which is if you pray it up and then if the unmodified hit roll for an attack made by the unit is six, that attack scores two hits on the target instead of one. That works, by the way, for both shooting and melee. So there you go. Which is cool. Love how we're just handing out our prayers to Stormcast. Double tap and it's just that it's taking all the other people's stuff. And I'm, yeah, it was good, it's good stuff. I think all three of those prayers are viable. Any disagreement? Like I think it says to me you're gonna have a priest in every army, right? At least one. Yeah. Agreed. Mount Traits, one hero with the Star Drake, Drakenith, Drakoff, Dracoline, or Griffcharger keyword. So many different weird things, Stormcast Ride. There are actually multiple interesting ones here, I think. Did you guys have any that you particularly liked or that stood out to you that you wanna start with? Who doesn't like six inch pylon? There you go, that's right. This, that's the one I read initially. It was like, oh, heck yeah. And then it read the Star Drakes couldn't do it. And I was like, ah. And they did that multiple times throughout here where I would like read it and get excited about the ability to think about what I'd wanna put it on. And that particular unit couldn't do it. And I'm like, ah, come on. But I think there's some pretty interesting stuff here for sure. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the six inch pylon etheric swiftness is really good. Yes, it cannot, like, and you're right. It's really restricted to Griffchargers, Drakoffs, or Dracolines. That being said, I do think it's very strong on like the just simple Lord Celeston on Drakoff. Like I think he's a great, you're gonna use that guy who, you know, he could be an interesting part of a Redeemer build for reasons we'll see. And then having him be an interesting little pinning piece that can run around and jump onto people and then jump out of combat and be where he needs to be. Like, in other words, being very mobile and an otherwise fairly staunch kind of army, right? Yeah. You're saying having etheric swiftness? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, I hear that. But at the end of the day, I think we're bearing the lead. I mean, Celestial Instincts is the right answer. Like, wait, you're telling me that I get to bake in Mr. Toots' ability into every Star Drake? Sure. Yeah, there's your answer, right? Because yes, the Celestial Instincts, this unit can retreat and still either shoot or charge in the same turn. So just permanent retreat and charge. That's really good. Yeah, it's good. It's good. It's really good. Yeah, I mean, it can go on anything, right? That's the advantage. And like, I like a lot of you on Star Drake. Like I like some of the other ones, but like to me, Celestial Instincts is the winner head and shoulders. Yeah, I mean, the light of the young stars on the Star Drake is interesting because you do it instead of a monstrous rampage, but it's not actually a monstrous rampage. So you can do it to things that have hunters in the heartlands, right? Because it doesn't say this is a new monstrous rampage. Like it does in the Cruel Voice Tome where it gives, or sorry, in War Clans where it actually gives you a new heroic option for your heroes. In this case, it just says instead of doing this, you can do this thing, right? And yeah, neg one to be hit. So cool. I also really, really love Thunderous Presence. We should mention Thunderous Presence, which is for Drake and Eth only for your like night draconis. You can choose this ability instead of carrying out a monstrous rampage. Once again, it's instead of so it, you know, it doesn't, like you can't be immune to it and you pick one enemy unit within one inch of this unit and roll a die on a three plus that unit cannot receive commands in the following battle shock phase. Oh, hello, no immunity to battle shock. Get wrecked. Love this. And, you know, if you double up, mm, double up, then you can with another monster then you can roar at them and do this. And then they are just shut off. And then it's time to go to town. So yeah, good stuff here. And then your Envoy of Lightning is also perfectly fine. You can give the unit the annihilator ability. Right, it's fine. Which is cool, yeah. Okay, yeah, in other words, I think lots of interesting mount traits, right? For kind of no matter what type of mount you have. By the way, I think the retreat and still shoot in charge can be useful on lots of things. But yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead, David. Oh no, you're, no, I was gonna say the Envoy of Lightning kind of goes into that splash D3 mortal wounds build pretty nicely. Yeah, if I was gonna do the splash D3 mortals, I'd find like one of the small based, like one of the smaller based monsters and you're gonna bring him down, you're gonna bring whatever this hero is down with the Lord Imperitence. So he's seven away from everything, right? And suddenly there's a lot of things in the unit and now Bing Bang Boom, more mortal wounds splashing on a lot of different units, right? Like people are just gonna have to spread in weird ways against you because of the way you, because of the ability of this army and if you're running the mortal wounds splash build to just be like in that point, in that point, just all sorts of stuff like that. So, yeah. Okay. All right, boop, let's keep going. Unique enhancements, command abilities, oh hello. So as Tom mentioned, there are no more command abilities on any war scrolls. Those are gone, which is fine. A lot of them aren't actually gone. No one's ever really gone, Tom. Most of them, many of the command abilities just became abilities on the scroll that now no longer require a resource to use, okay? So a lot of the command abilities are just things they do now for existing rather than a thing you had to spend a resource on. Let me just start there. All right. So I'm not like, that's a good thing. Losing a command ability and making it just now a free aura, hmm. Which one's better? Oh yeah, the free aura, okay. But these are, you basically you get to choose a command ability, you would get to choose one of these because it's a unique enhancement. You pick one of the following. This could be chosen as an additional if you wanted with your battalion. Yeah, with your army battalions. If you received magnificent or whatever, the one that gives you an extra enhancement, you could choose an extra one of these. All of these are once per battle. And I think there are a couple in here that are pretty interesting. Gentlemen, what grabs you? What grabs you out of this list? Obviously Thunderbolt Volley is one, I mean, right, double tapping shooting is gonna be always good. Never hasn't been good. Yep, still good. Double shooting in the Europe base. Yes, Thunderbolt Volley, Thunderbolt's enlightening, very, very frightening indeed. You can double tap a just a car or Angelo's unit. Thank you for using that keyword. That's comical that you think I would ever double tap a prosecutor unit, but I appreciate the instinct. It's nice of them to include it. No, you're double tapping just a cars. Let's be real here. Yeah, go ahead Tom. I mean, I like Unleash Hatred, Unleash Psy Hatred for Paladins, plus one attacks on Profile. Like, pretty good. I always like bonus attacks. Now it's not gonna get a lot of mileage unless you're running like 10 models. But I could imagine like, what are the Paladins with the big fat blades? The protectors, is that what you're talking about? The protectors, yeah. I think protectors are one of the things where their stonks have went up. And I think they're one of those hidden gems that we didn't talk about. They didn't make my list, but it could have because of the monster meta that we're in. Like, don't forget each one of those are swinging around the D6 wounds against monsters. Right? That's still true. I didn't know, that's not true. I don't remember what's on them. We'll look at them. I think that might have changed to some degree. We'll look, I literally don't remember, Tom. But regardless, some of those have some pretty punchy attacks. No, completely agreed. There's a lot of the Paladin units got real interesting. By the way, the new annihilators officially got their Paladin keyword now as well. So like, and the new big hammer, neg two, rend three damage double-handed hammer annihilators. Also interesting, okay? Right, yeah. And yes, everybody's telling you, Tom, that that's gone. So I thought it was gone. Oh, I, for some reason, I thought it was still there. No, I mean, there are plenty of Paladin units that I think that was one of one of, like that's one of Rob's complaints that I do agree with. They stripped out a little bit too much of the anti-monster stuff in a monster meta, which is weird. I would have liked to see a couple units still have some, a little bit more specialization in their role that wouldn't necessarily hurt the simplicity that bad. Like if I had a critique, it would be that in the, in the pursuit of positive, of reducing unnecessary complexity, they also sometimes killed flavor in a negative way. And what they should have done is kill a boring rule and kept an interesting rule. They didn't always make that choice correctly. So that's a fair critique. Okay, but we'll get there. There, the Paladins I think have like, man, there is a Paladin heavy army that is real now between this commandability. Okay. And what we're going to talk about when we get to sub factions. Like I could even imagine running like decimators with that plus one attack. Is there already like five attacks a model? They're the ones with the axes. Yeah, they go seven with their ability. Seven with their ability, eight with that. So like that's 40 attacks out of those five dudes. It's a lot. That's pretty good. Yeah. And then obviously call for aid, you can just restore a Redeemer unit, like five dudes to the battlefield so you can just get back five Vendictors or something like that. It's quite a lot of model restore that could be floated around in the Stormcast army. Like if you're running Yandrosta where she's dropping a model back into every unit around her every turn. If you have the new Knight Vexelor whose banner can restore basically up to three dudes, you know, you get back a unit here. There's actually quite a lot of restore that's there. Yeah. And then there's final Thunderstrike, which we're not going to talk about because it's terrible. There is also a steadfast March by the way, which gives you run in charge. So like, hey, guess what's good? Run in charge. It's still good. It's still good. Run in charge. Still a good thing. 2021. It's still good. News break. It's still good. But if it's my one once per game thing, I'm not sure that it's the one that I choose out of that set. I think it would depend on my army build. But you know, what I'll say is oftentimes I only need run in charge once around. Once. Right. You need to get across there once. Right. Like I'm here. I want to be there. And then I win. Yeah, maybe. That's true. I mean, yeah. All right. So like what I would say is this, I could very easily see a world where I take like a bonus enhancement and take Thunderbolt volley and steadfast March. Sure. You know, or call for aid and steadfast March. Yeah. Like it's a good second. Yeah. I agree with that. I totally not to minimize your point, David. Cause you're absolutely right. I'm looking at these going like, man, there's there are multiples of these I think I would take first. Right. Depending on my army construction. But I think it is like, it's a good place to look for a second enhancement. There's a lot of fighting for your bonus enhancements in this book. Like there are a lot of good options here that'll flavor your buildings. Yeah. I mean, you're right though. If you're building like an all dragon army, you're not really going to use the other ones. So it might be that, you know, that your run in charge is the best one to take. So yeah, that's true. Yes. That is true. You see, David, I've come to a realization on what I enjoy in Warhammer and what I enjoy in Warhammer more than anything in the world is mobility. I want to be wherever I want to be every round all the time without fail. And I found that that wins games somehow. Surprisingly. If I can just always be anywhere on the board I want. And weird how that works. Weird how that works. So speed. I got a need for it, you might say. All right. Anyways, so I like that one. Yes, by the way, I see Sean said LOL buttons are fun. Yes, they are. Hit the like button. It's fun. See, just like it says right up there. It says it right up there. You can see it. Hit that like button. Hope so that people find the show, especially midstream. The more of you to hit like now, the more YouTube does a thing and more people come find the show. Storm hosts. All right. All right, gentlemen. Here we go. So this is how sub factions work now, okay? All the other things are gone. You don't sacrifice anything to choose them. You just choose one and you go. Great, fine. This is true in both books, by the way. It'll be true next week for WarX. This is how sub factions are. Do all sub factions work like this going forward? Who knows? Who knows? Right? Does that mean when we get a scaven book it's gonna look completely different? I don't know. Or will the slaves look like this? I don't know. Or will they still have a different type of build? You know, the more, because they didn't eat your command trade either, right? They had a different type of sub faction. Who knows? Here's what I know. Some of these are real good and interesting and some of these are not. All right, so we're gonna play a game here, okay? You ready? I'm gonna read it real quick and then you're gonna both give me a hot take. David, you're first, then Tom. I want you to give me a good or bad and then we can say why. Ready? Hammers of Sigmar. Friendly Hammers of Sigmar units wholly within 12 inches and an objective have a ward of six plus. David. Boring. Okay, boring, but is it good? It's fine. All right. I don't know if it's bad. I don't know if it's bad. Real quick, I know you want to go quick. No, no, no. But I will say in a world of lots of mortal wounds, having an aftersave of any kind is probably good. But I don't get it super excited about a six plus. That's fair. That's fair, totally fair. Tom. Good. Okay. Because when you don't have to have a hero to get a bonus aftersave on that group of five liberators that's guarding an objective. Then what's better than for five liberators guarding objective, five liberators with a six up aftersave? Okay. I've been dictating a holding an objective is better than five liberators. This is also true. But either way, been dictating for the six up aftersave is also good. I would also state that they might have just well of said friendly Hammers of Sigmar units have a six up ward save. Okay. Because 12 inches of objectives in this game. It's massive. It's massive. Okay. Yeah. It's not the size of where you can test the objective. It is, and it's not twice as big as that because that's not how diameter works, right? Like this pi R squared gets a lot larger when the R is 12 versus the R of six. I did the math and it was like 113 inches square or something like that was how much space you cover. And that's how that's the actual space of a normal objective. And it's like 440 something for this. Okay. Square inches. So it's a lot of the board, you know, like in anything where the objectives are in the middle like tectonic interference or something, these are overlapping. These bubbles are overlapping each other by like nine inches, right? It's massive. Yeah. It's boring, but it's probably not bad. It's okay. I agree with you. That's my argument. All right. The Hollow Knights only the faithful. If a friendly Hollow Knights redeemer model is slain within three inches of any enemy units, we'll die on a four plus. They can fight before they're removed from play. David, your call. Good or bad. Let's give you a quick thought. Why too? Good or bad and why? I think it's good. I think being able to fight after you die is good. Anybody who's fought old gristle gore knows all about it. Yep. Tom? Yeah, it's fine. I mean, what I'll say is this. Yes, and it has nothing to do with the actual ability. Okay. Why so? Because it lets me feel Gartus, who's also going to give me a five up or an aftersave. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fair. Like Gartus gives you a five up aftersave and a big bubble now. Gartus is good now. By the way, we finally, we fixed him. Yes. And so I look at that because like when I, like if I'm doing Hollow Knights, the question is, what else am I having to feel? Or what else do I have the options to feel? And what this says is, hey, your army can also have Gartus with that five up aftersave, which is better than that six up aftersave. And I fight, I have 50% chance to fight, which doesn't trigger as much as you think it would. Trust me, one of my lists did that. Well, one might say statistically it triggers 50% of the time. Yeah, it doesn't feel that way. Like I know you're saying that. It doesn't feel that way. Sure. So what I would say is that like it's good. Like I would take it. I would say if you're in a, if you're going to enter Redeemer's army, that's that's pumping back like mortal wounds on death. And then you also get to fight on death. I mean, you're not, people don't want to kill you. Right. Yeah, it's more porcupine, right? For the porcupine Redeemer build, which by the way, you can buff up Redeemers and the like, there are ways to get them bonus attacks and bonus things that can actually make them, like, especially if Indictors do damage or even sequiturs, like both of those can actually do real damage. I mean, they're not like hammers, but they'll do enough that in the fight between like a D3 on the way in, their Thunder Strike on the way out, they fought then an extra fight for 50% of them. Like it's, it just adds up as they grind you down. It's attrition. It's not as flashy as the Gull King on Terragite's coming in and blowing you up with 18 mortal wounds, but it like, it will get there. So yeah, I agree. Okay, driven by vengeance. Start of the combat phase. You can pick one friendly Celestial Vindicators unit that made a charge move that turn until your next hero phase, if the unmodified hit roll for an attack made with a melee weapon by the unit is six, two hits instead of one. Basically they get less weapons every combat phase for one unit for free. David. I think it depends on the build. I think a lot of units already get this in certain ways. There's lots of ways to get this exact ability. It doesn't get me as excited because of that. Like it's not unique in that. But I think it's good if you don't already have a way to get that ability. Okay. Tom? Fine. I agree. This one's fine. Marco says 10 Vindictors dying will do two damage fighting all on death. I don't know what you mean, Marco. Do you mean all 10 of them attacking back? I would want to know what numbers you're saying because that is not correct math. But like, if you can show me your numbers, I'm willing to believe you unless you, but depending on what you mean again. It's Vindictors trigger mortals on a six. So right away it's going to be higher than that just because of the number of attacks that they make. But sure, I get it. Like I understand it's not a huge amount of extra damage as at the same time. Okay. Anvils of the Heldon Hammer. Now real quick, Anvils were the really probably too good when last time, right? Yes. Okay, cool. Just checking. At the end of the charge phase, you can, I'm not even going to read it. I'm not even going to read it. Gotcha, GW. I'm not reading this. I'm not reading this. Okay. And yeah, it's bad. It's a bad ability. I don't know what else to say. Next. Yep. Thank you. Next. Okay, Knights Excelsior. Once per turn, this is so overtly written, but it gets to a good place. This is the opposite of the last one. There's so much text, but we at least get to a good place. Okay. Once per turn, at the start of the combat phase, you can pick one friendly Knights Excelsior Paladin unit. So all the retributors, God, what are they all called? Retributors? Retributors, decimators, annihilators. There we go. Thank you. Yes. All of those. Until the end of that phase, when you until, okay, a little bit of a lot. On the battlefield. Until the end of that phase, when you pick that unit to fight, pick one enemy unit within one inch of that unit. If the number of models in that enemy unit is greater than the number of models in that Paladin unit, add one to hit and wound rolls for attacks made by that Paladin unit that target that enemy unit until the end of that phase. Okay. That was a lot of words for plus one to hit and wound. David, your feeling? Good if you're planning on running a Paladin heavy build. Obviously, obviously, if you're not, obviously, you would run it, but if you're playing against like, Sons of Baymont or something or some other army that's not gonna have, you're never gonna be outnumbered by, it's worthless. But yeah. Yup. It's good in those builds. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I think this is super strong, actually. Because, especially on annihilators, because annihilators are Paladins and because they come in threes, so they will very often be outnumbered, right? Like there's like many units they go against will have more than them. It's a little harder to pull off with your five-man Paladin units because they might often be other, they might often be up against five-man units, right? Those are very common so they don't get their bonus. But like I think on annihilators, that is a crazy good bonus. And so, yes. And then in Knights Excelsior, I should be mentioning this. Hammers makes the Dracothean Guard battle line. Knights Excelsior also makes the all of the Paladins battle line. So like you have a good reason if you are in Knights Excelsior, you're gonna take the Paladin Command Tray, you're gonna take the Knights Excelsior sub-faction, and then you can make some pretty brutal Paladins, right? So yeah. Okay, cool. Celestial Warbringers, once per battle, sorry, once per phase, you can re-roll one hit roll, one rune roll, for an attack made by a friendly Celestial Warbringers unit, or one save roll for an attack that targets a friendly Celestial Warbringers unit. David. So real quick, is a roll the entire roll, is it a one-dice? It is, let's wound, hit, and save, so it'd be one-dice. Like if you roll four attacks, you pick one and re-roll it. That would be what it would be. Yeah, I don't like it. Okay. Tom, don't feel like it's big enough, is that the thing? Yeah, I just don't think it's impactful enough in comparison to everything else that's in the list. Okay, cool. I love it. Okay, why so, Tom? Because when those attacks are coming in on my Celestial Warbringer dragon, and I'm only failing on a one, I wanna re-roll that one. Yes, that is correct. I'm sorry, David, I'm going to disagree with you on this one and say, let me restate the ability for you, David, on the way I read it, okay, which is like this. Once per phase, in your combat, sorry, in the combat phase, okay? Or the enemy shooting phase, you can re-roll one save roll, okay? Anyone? In your shooting phase, you can re-roll one hit or wound roll, because that's how the ability is actually gonna be used, right? And now all of a sudden, I am super interested, because oftentimes, exactly with the way that these guys are gonna be able to put out saves, it's like, well, I only fail one or two in any given clutch dice. I only needed to re-roll one of them, right? And I'm in the zone. The auto, the auto save zone. So yeah. I guess I'm having, okay, yeah. The way, when you say like that, it sounds a lot better. I guess I'm comparing it versus the rest of them. I think there are others that speak to me more, specifically the two next ones. Hey, I get it. This isn't my favorite one either, but I just think that like- It's boring, but it's boring, but it's safe. Yes. There is a 40K ability, by the way, that does this, it is like a super powerful thing. This is like- Yeah, this is the zinch ability, right? Right. Like, do you wanna cheat? Cool. Here's how you cheat. Right. And what I like about the celestial warbringer is that it's not triggered to anything. It's not like wind being attacked by a monster. Yeah, sure. It's just generic. And it's not a hero. It's your entire army. There's no range restrictions. There's no anything. It's just once per phase, choose one of those dice that you roll the one on and re-roll. Like- Keep emphasizing every word by smashing your desk. Yeah, stop it. Yeah, I'll try. But I mean, so what I would say is this, there's a lot of these abilities on here that you will not use multiple times a turn. That can't be said for the celestial. Yeah, sure. Sure, there will always be reason to use this. Yes. Yes. That's fair. All right, Tempest Lords. Boy, do I like this one so much. I think this is where you're at too. So Tempest Lords say when you attempt a charge with a friendly Tempest Lords unit that can fly, you can re-roll one of the dice for that charge. I love me a re-roll one of the dice on a charge ability. It's real good. Yeah, this one's super good. I mean, I'm just gonna say it straight out. David, what's your feeling? That's exactly right. That's exactly where my head was at. I love, so there's nothing more frustrating than missing a charge. It's just like one of those things in the game where you get right up to somebody and you're, and you just don't, and nothing happens. And then you get piled into and taken off the table. So I think making your charge is one of the things that I feel most strongly about. I love getting something for free. Like, I hear that. So what, so you're gonna use this on your dragons? You're gonna use this on dragons? Not only. I'll give you another item you can use on, but sure. Okay. Dragons are a vital target for you. Hey, Tom, here's just a quick shout out. Everyone loves dragons and everybody's gonna be running dragons. So I agree. Like, I was thinking about a dragon army. So like, I get it. I do. And this is gonna be like the ability for dragon army, right? But what else are you, what's flying that you're charging that is not a dragon? Prosecutors who are also battle line in this force. Prosecutors who charge 3D6, which lets you pick up the one low dye you roll and do very important things with them as we will get to in a moment, namely stopping Unleashed Hell dead in their tracks. Or catching annoying foxes because now you can land super, like even on 2D6, as Marco said, the median charge goes from a seven to a nine with this ability, with re-rolling on the dice. When you get it on a 3D6, and you can pick out like, you know, how many times have you seen 3D6 where it's like four, five, one, I don't know. Re-roll that one, that becomes a much bigger charge. Okay. But yes, also the prime, who also has his own built-in re-roll and capability to do this. Yndrasta is another one, right? You want a long bomb out and really get in there from a distance. She will get in there a long time. Like, there are many good targets for this, okay? Yeah, I like using it on the prime. I'll use it on the prime and saving his like change for something that does damage, you know? Right, right. Yep. And then finally, Astral Templars, friendly Astral Templars units cannot be picked when your opponent carries out a monstrous rampage. Cool. These guys, by the way, get the Vanguard stuff as their battle line. Like the Vanguard Hunters and Vanguard Paladors. So, cool. I just want to add the Vanguard stuff. What's that? Sorry, I didn't mean to catch up, you ahead. It's neat that they all get Hunter's of the Heartlands. Basically, your whole army has Hunter's of the Heartlands, you're immune to monstrous rampage. It's like, oh, cool, okay, that's a good ability. Yep. Yeah, I like the Vanguard Portion of Stormcast, so I like this as kind of an enabler for that army. And I like that you're kind of, it's themy, and you're turning off a part of the game that's really prevalent right now. Sure. Yeah, I agree. Okay, so the point is, we've got some interesting sub-faction choices there, all of which are enabling a lot of different battle lines, which is cool. There is quite a lot of different battle line in this army that you can get to, so cool. All right, gentlemen, matched play. All right, let me time this out. Now that we're here, boy, did that take a while. So, matched play, GS and battle tactics. All right, let's keep pressing ahead. Grand strats. Bad, bad, amazingly fun to cheat and win with. So, Dracothea in defense. When this battle ends, you complete this grand strategy. If the only heroes, only heroes on the battlefield are friendly, draconist, star, draker, drakoth units. No, terrible, because that includes your heroes, so that means they all have to die too. Sorry, all the other priests and wizards, you're all dead. No. The pillars of victory when the battle ends, you complete this grand strategy. If the only battle line units on the battlefield are friendly, redeemer units. No, stop with these. What, these shouldn't be printed. I've talked about it a million times. This is the biggest mistake they're making in the new books. This is my least favorite thing. Please stop printing these. Why are we doing these? Erase these from the all. If every TO just said, you know what, we're only using the GHB and all of these are cut from existence, I would applaud that TO for their bravery, because I think these are all just bad. And until we get to a world where like, Rob talked about a world where would it be neat if this was the only battle tactics you had or something and we didn't have the GHB ones? Well, sure, that could be interesting. That could be really fun and challenging than the complete battle tactics. You'd see the number drop like a rock of which you could complete, but it's gonna be months and months before we have 25 armies that all have their own battle tactics, even between white dwarf and battle jump releases, right? So like, although I agree that with that world where we cut out the GHB ones and only use these would make for an extremely competitive environment to complete battle tactics, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. And I just wish these weren't here. I wish we were just all playing with the same stuff out of the GHB, that we kept it simple, that we didn't clutter the game with a stupid nonsense. Yep. It was a bad choice and I'm never gonna forgive them for this. It's like, I'm never gonna let this go. Well, but I'll be a year from now, a book I'll be reviewing, it'll be in here and I'll be saying the same crap. So anyways, sacred charge. When the battle ends, you complete this grand strategy if there are two or more friendly cities of Sigmar unit on the battlefield. Love it. Love this one. This is a hot pick if you're a storm keep army because you can just take two gyrocopters. They're elite, they're super fast, they're relatively easy to hide because they're a tiny thing. So you just put them behind terrain, you corner them in the back corners, who's shooting at your gyrocopters? Who decides that's the thing they've gotta do? So 150 points, easier than Predator's domain, easier than keeping your wizards or battle line or anything else alive, free grand strat to gyrocopters. Love it. That's my argument. And they're coalition units if you're a storm keep, right? So there you go. What do you think of my gyrocopter strat? It's good. I mean, I agree with you. Honestly, this page is where I spent the least amount of time reading. So I don't even know that I've given a lot of thought. And it's almost on just my own protest against it because I think it's stupid. Yeah, I agree. As far as the battle tactics go, here's my honest answer. None of these are in any way, in any way like, none of these are in any way interesting, is what I'll say. Some of them are just straight up bad. Some of them are just harder versions of the existing thing. They're conquer but harder, or destroy the battle line unit but harder, or whatever, right? Because they put more lips on it. And then suddenly there's like two that are pretty decent for draconists and stargrapes. Which is just, they are both pick a monster or pick a battle line unit but harder, but they give you a second version of those. That's it. So if somebody has a lot of battle line and you've got like a star drake or a drakeneth leader, you can be like, oh, all broken ranks. Okay, cool, I killed that battle line unit. Now I'll draconist, draconist destruction. Now I kill that unit. Yay, I get to use broken ranks twice. Fantastic, okay. Marco, did we already say how the Stormkeep keyword, it doesn't have a single interaction in the book? It doesn't though there are interactions. It's just not through the Stormkeep keyword. It's through cities of Sigmar things, which you're clearly in Stormkeep. Like, yes, yes it doesn't, but I mean that's not the take I would give. Like what I'm saying is there are still certainly things you can do. Like if you're Stormkeep and you take cities of Sigmar units, there are interactions of cities of Sigmar units. Now, if there's enough, we could have a discussion about that, but there are interactions, they're just sideways. Just because it doesn't say Stormkeep doesn't mean there's no interaction with the city's units. But that being said, I would have liked to see him throw around more Scions and Stormkeep stuff, certainly. I don't think you're wrong there, okay? All right, Corp Battalions. Yup. These all exist. Next, none of these are better than anything in the Corp book. I thought it was weird that, as many sub-commander units in this army, there are no Italians that use sub-commanders. Weird. There's like 30 of them. Yeah. Yeah. It's bizarre. There's more sub-commanders in Stormcast Eternals than like entire factions have War Scrolls period. Yeah, I think that the answer here is, these also shouldn't exist, and these also are bad. So thanks, you wasted two pages in the middle of an otherwise good battle tone. So, Haiti says Brotherhood Command is good. I disagree. I guess because you can have three large leaders is what you're arguing for. It just gives you strategists, it's an extra command point. I'd still rather just build that list with the basic stuff. Like I'd still rather go Warlord slash Battle Regiment, any day of battle. Warlord slash Battle Regiment, any day of the week, and fit that stuff in. Personal taste. So, okay, cool. All right, let's rock and roll. Let's roll, let's bowl, let's bowl, let's rock and roll. Okay, now it's time gentlemen. We come to the part of the show that we've all been waiting on, the units. Oh yeah, tuck in. Here we go. The Celestin Prime. He's here baby, he's here, it's real now. It's real now. You want to talk about a scroll that got improved. Seven words, seven words. That's what it took. And we made this guy a boss. Did we give him plus one attack? Sure, that's fine. But I of the Celestial Storm, this unit has a ward of four plus. I'm counting that as one word. Amazing how it works. I'm counting four plus as one word. I literally, when you said that, like below the table counted the words on my hands to make sure that that was what you were talking about. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. No, it's good. Like that's what he needed. Exactly, this is all he needed. Like as soon as I was at it, I was like, I'd feel him now. Totally. This guy's 325 points for the Celestin Prime. Yes. I have all the points on a separate sheet in front of me just so I can reference as we're talking. 325 worth it every day, twice on Sunday, part of a great mortal wound strategy if you're doing the drop and pop. This guy's fantastic. And now he doesn't instantly evaporate. Here. He's great. He's freaking great. And I love him. In a city's army. Yeah, sure. Good ally. Like good in this army, good ally. Yeah. It's nothing bad about this guy. He's not faction locked by the way. Well, in a city's army, he's actually like a coalition. But yeah, that's good. Yep. I'm a fan. He is unique, so he can't take stuff, you know, but he can benefit from sub faction stuff where appropriate. For example, he's a flying unit and when charging, he could choose to re-roll as you earlier mentioned and save his own worry of celestial fates for later stuff. And he's also, so yeah, he's great. Great. I don't know what else to say about him. He's awesome now. I love him. I just took a four up word. So yeah. Four up word and an appropriate price. Like he's been too expensive for a while. So I think this is good. Yep. And he's rent three damage three big old hammer doing work. He still has the annoying, you've got to keep him up in the heavens mechanic, but that's fine. He'll come down in round two with five attacks and that's a perfectly respectable profile. Okay. He has my attention. Yeah, indeed. Krondis. Oh, our big dragon. Big D. Woop. So big D has 18 wounds and a three up save. He has some decent attacks. They're okay. I like to render damage three or two. He has a little, his breath is like all the dragon breath. So I'll read it this time. All dragons breathe in the exact same way from the biggest dragon to the little baby dragons. They all breathe the same way, which is do not use the attack sequence or an attack made with his shooting weapon. Instead, we'll die on a one to two. It's one mortal wound on a three to four D three and on a five to six, it's D six. His tail is number of attacks equal to the number of miles and three inches of him. And both dragons have the ancient master of war where you subtract one from the attacks characteristic of melee weapons that target his unit. That is a heck of a defense right there. That is a pretty strong built-in defense minus one attack. Lots of units rely on multi-attacking. So it's just automatically sapping one of those away for being in melee with them. Yeah, and it's not even like a range. It's like, oh, you have bow attacks. You have two shots model. Awesome, you have one. No, it is only melee weapons that target this. Is it? Yeah, it's melee weapons, yes. Yeah, I know. I wish it was all attacks, but no, it's just melee. For some reason, I thought that that was all attacks. No, I know. Like when we went over it. Yeah, it's just melee. I know, I know. And then importantly, he is also a wizard who is a double caster and he has the regalia of Pullman Terrace giving him a base plus three to cast. It does go down as he gets wounded. His spell does subtract one from hit rolls or minus one to rend or minus one to attacks so he can minus two attacks people if he needs to or minus one to saves. Really good, really strong spell that he'll get off on a six because he has plus three if he's unwounded. Bravery 10, he heals himself quite easily. He has Thunder Strike. So when he dies, he'll roll 19 dice and then cause three mortal wounds to you, which is fun. Yeah, I mean, he's only 600 points. Honestly, I think this guy's a steal for 600 points. Honest answer. I'll say this. And my first read was like, he's absolutely not worth 600 points. And I'll tell you what just swung me the other. Oh, okay. Well, no, it just swung me the other direction was I just reread Calamity's Tale. Yes. When I first read it, I read it incorrectly and just now rereading it. Oh my God, it could be amazing. In the right situation, it's kind of like, it's the old Star Drake tale but like a thousand times better. But in that, like, if you fight a single model, it's worthless. But if you fight like a horde, you're gonna just murder them. Yeah, absolutely. Because he could, because it's a three inch range and he's on a very big base, right? He's gonna Tokyo drift into a unit or whatever and have a lot of models within range of him. So, yeah. Yep, I agree. I think this guy's great. Honestly, I think 600 is probably a little cheap for him. He does lack of word save, which is a problem, right? He can get focused on by mortals. So we should keep that in mind. But at the same time, he is a very strong double caster with a decent melee profile, a good shooting attack and a very versatile spell. Yeah. Right? Because that's like, the fact that he has a spell that he can just point at somebody and go, neg one save, right? It means that effectively he can make himself red three if he needs to. Yeah, right. My pushback is that because he's not good against single models, not as good against single models. Sure. He's gonna handicap you in those armies against like suns or something because you're dedicating 600 points of your army and you know suns are gonna be at everywhere in a tournament. So he's gonna handicap the amount of weight you can bring to bear against those big giants. Even if you are taken away with their save, you only have 1400 points of your army and 600 points of it isn't gonna do the work. That's just the, you know, the counterpoint. It's an excellent point. But if he sends all those attacks into one of those targets. It's only okay. His damage profile is decent, but it doesn't work out amazing. No, it's not great. Yeah, it's okay. He's not like, he's not a pillow, but he's also not his brother. Like his brother has a much higher damage profile. I like him. I like him a lot. Yeah, I agree. Like he shouldn't be the same points as his brother. That's what I'll say. Like there's no way these guys are actually the same points. This was just dart at the wall. Like this guy should probably be 650. The brother should probably be like 500, 530, something like that is actually how it should be. Speaking of his brother, Karazai or Scar as we all like to call it. Same 18 wounds, three up save, blah, blah, blah. As per usual, by the way, all these new monsters only have four things on their damage table. That is worth mentioning that all the new monsters only have four charts. Like I mentioned that in the last show, but it's worth mentioning here again. And the initial wound count has been set much higher, which is great. I'm glad to see that. So that's a good thing. Thank you. Karazai, not a wizard. And he's just a better melee guy. Same ancient master of war, same blazing tempest, same calamitous tale. The difference is he has six attacks with his jaws and they're at rend three instead of rend two, which I mean is actually quite a big difference. And then he has this little RPG game he's playing where each time he destroys a unit, you can basically, based on what he destroys, he can get bonuses. And obviously you're immediately trying to hunt a hero or a monster with this guy to kill him, because then you're plus one attack to every profile he has. And like good Lord does that do a lot of work for him. So every time he kills a hero or a monster, he gets significantly scarier because it's plus one attack to all three profiles. I kind of wish that the breath weapon was better on the things in comparison to the little dragons. It's weird that they're the same, right? Yeah, apparently they're all the same fire. That being said, when Daenerys had her little baby shoulder puppet dragon, burned that dude, he's still incinerated. So I guess. Yeah, he's still burned. Wait, hold on one second. Her little baby dragon killed a dude. Her big dragon killed an army. I mean, fair. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. That's also a fair point. I guess, well, he got a little bigger and then he was still blowing stuff up, right? My point was there was a range there, but sure. Okay. Yeah, I mean, cars I should be cheaper than his brother. Like there's, again, we've said it. This is where I go to like the old, my main problem with this book is that is point related. Like some things are a bit too cheap. Some things are a little too expensive. Car as I is too expensive. Krondis is too cheap. They need to like scoot apart, right? Sure. Krondis is that cheap. I think car as I has definitely too expensive, but I think Krondis, yeah, because of his lack of a word save, he's just a target thing it picked out. Yeah, it's a fair point. How much does that word matter? I mean, he can't take the amulet. That is a cost. You may be right. I don't know. I think I would like him better at like 620, maybe 650, somewhere in that range. It's just, he's good. He's strong. Like as someone who's repeatedly argued that like GoTrek needs to go up and Marathi needs to go up, I just, you know, he does a lot. He's clearly a very impactful force on the battlefield, right? The difference is that Marathi and GoTrek can't die. This is a good point. Yeah. You're not wrong there. He's eminently killable, right? You shoot, if 40 Centinels shoot at him, he's probably dead. Right. Dante said we can't get even a little discussion regarding the anvil's ability. I think it's pretty cool. My argument is no. I think it's bad because you're rolling 2D6 against Bravery. And as somebody who plays Slanesh and has lots of abilities that are 2D6 against Bravery, it is a, it's a nothing burger of a thing, man. I'm sorry. The number of things in this game that are Bravery 9 and 10 is way too high. You fighting a lot of Seraphon, they're Bravery 10. You fighting anything in Death, they're all Bravery 10. You fighting anything in Chaos, they're all Bravery 10. Like more than 50% of this game for what people actually play is Bravery 10. And 2D6 against that is just nothing. It's impossible. So like it's cool you can use the ability against Destruction sometimes, sometimes. Sometimes. It will often just be like Bravery 6 or 7. But, you know, yeah. Even 2D6 is not guaranteed to be over a 6, right? No, it's actually not a, no, no, not at all. It's still about a 40% chance of failure, a little more than. So, you know, like it's a cool designed ability in what it's trying to do, but it's just, it's so badly written. They need to stop doing that 2D6 against Bravery thing. It's like they don't understand the probability curve on 2D6 because it's just, it doesn't work against the way it works. There's 3D6 maybe. If it was 3D6, totally different story. Totally different story. Okay. Yundrasta, she's what she was before. She was good before, she's still good now. Yundrasta is now 320. Feels absolutely correct. I wanna put her and the Prime in an army. That's what I wanna do. I wanna both. I want it all. I want both of my angels. And I want them just being awesome together. They'd be pretty awesome. Yeah, right? I mean, they're both super sweet and then we're gonna put it right in Tempest Lords where all of a sudden I can re-roll charged dice with these guys. So yeah, cool. And Yundrasta good, right? That's what we're all saying. Yes. I mean, that's, that has been universally true, yes. Yes. Okay, great. I thought we'd all agree, just making sure. All right, Lord Commander Madass. Excuse my language, but he earns the title. So Lord Commander Bastion Carthalos, the Lord Commander of the Hammers of Sigmar. He is a Hammers of Sigmar locked unit. Eight wounds, three up save. This dude has some abilities. Four attacks, threes and twos. Neg two, rend four damage. A hammer that would make a giant's club look weedy in response, but this dude's more utility than just damage. Once per turn in your hero phase, you can pick one enemy unit on the battlefield and roll a number of dice equal to the wounds characteristic of that unit. For each six, they suffer one mortal wound. Fun, just because it's anywhere. Obviously it's fun to throw 35 dice at mega gargants or, you know, 18 dice a big crazy monsters. So that's fun. But it is good for just doing a couple of mortal wounds and slash damage to a monster. Castellan of Aesir after, at the start, the first battle round after determining who has the first turn. But before the first turn begins, you can pick up the D three friendly Hammers of Sigmar units on the battlefield and set them up again. Oh, boy. You're giving a thumbs up to that one, David. Tell me why you love that so much, because I love it. It's great. It's just a bait and switch, right? I mean, you can, I think it was, wasn't this old Tempest Lords back in? Yeah, I think Tempest Lords did this, yeah, before. Yeah. That was an underplayed, you know, army back then. But I think this, I love this guy, he's awesome. But I think it's just such a good ability. You can make, you can fake out your opponent or put yourself in a better position if you think you're going to take the first turn. Yeah, you can also sneak things up into the heavens or down. Yeah. Depending on how you do it, because you can redeploy them. So you could like pull them up or pull them down, right? Yeah. You can also, like, I just love this ability so much, right? It also lets you cheat if you're in a one drop, because like part of the downside to a one drop is that your opponent then gets to react to your deployment. And you, after they react to your deployment, you're like, no, woo, woo, woo, follow the lady. Where's the lady? Oh, they're over here now. You're not getting the matchups you want anymore. Jerk. So that's great. Vessel of Tempest, War to Four Up. So again, this dude is also super tough. He, Voice of Thunder, once per turn, he can issue a command to a Hammers of Sigmar unit anywhere on the battlefield without a command point being spent. Incredible, 10 free, unlimited range command points every game. And Mantle of the First Storm at the end of any phase. If any enemy models were slain by wounds caused by this unit's attacks in that phase, you can heal all wounds allocated to this unit. So if you don't kill any heals, he is a hard guy to bring down. That is for sure. So Lord Commander here is 300 points even. And in my estimation, he earns it. Yeah. He's a little, I mean, he doesn't have the mobility. Sure. So I think that's a knock on him. But really, I mean, he's awesome. He has my attention. Yep. Like, when I look at him, I go, yeah, that sticks up on your objectives. I can work with that. Sure. I mean, there's a couple of things involving the Hammers, right? Like, yeah, some of the Dracotian Guard we'll talk about later. You'll be like, okay, all right. Okay. You have my attention. That was my one knock. I'm in to say that. I hate that they lock certain characters to Hammers. It bothers me. Because the Hammers, the Hammers are my women's favorite faction. I don't like it. But I think you can take him in a different storm hose, right? He just doesn't get the benefits of the storm hose. Yeah. So I mean, there's that. He just couldn't apply his D3 ability only works on Hammers and Sigmar units. As does his D3 ability. Yes. Both of those are locked to Hammers. Yeah. Okay. Never mind. I mean, you have to take them in those armies. Yeah, I didn't see that. His model's sweet though. He is. I mean, like, if for some reason you were going to make a Lord Celestin, which you're not because they're terrible, we'll get to it. You're like, this is, this would be the model you actually wanted to use, not the regular Lord Celestin. So that's fine. You don't like Hammerclaw? I do not. Gartus's looks okay. That's because of his pose. Vandus Hammerhand, our old buddy, our old friend from the beginning. He shuttled us into the addition. This is a good example. Part of his old commandability just became a normal ability he has now, where do not take Battleshock desks for friendly Hammers of Sigmar units wholly within 24 inches of this unit. So just period all the time now. No need to use a command point. It just happens. He can also pick Hammers of Sigmar Redeemer units wholly within 12 and add one to the attacks characteristic. So if you're running Hammer's Redeemer build, which I think is perfect, like a good choice by the by, because then your Redeemer's sitting on the objectives, which is what you're wanting to do, are getting ward saves and kicking back. And now things like Vendictors can actually be at three attack space, which now we're getting somewhere, right? So, yeah, he's fine. He's a reasonably good choice. 215 points, by the way, for a nine-loom three-up save guy, so. Yeah, I like him a lot. Yeah. The Battleshock community is huge. I agree. Yeah. It's just a giant bubble, right? Like it's absolutely massive. And that's the most one to save on the unit like sequiturs or something. I mean, they can get pretty punchy. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, we'll talk about Secces and Vendictors later and like both of them can have some good offense. So, yep. They're more attrition grindy units, but they can give a little punch. They give some fight. Okay. A Ventus Fire Strike, the Magister of Hammer Hall. Okay. Yep, he's a double caster. His little stick is Ren too. That's fun. He has this plus one to hit ability that the normal guy also has. A Ventus, by the way, in addition to being unique is 325 points. He's on a Torlon, 14-inch move, 12 wounds. No word save. He has a heal and he's bad. I don't know what else to say. That anybody could defend this, dude? No. Okay. I mean, Comet Trail is better. Are you sure? It is, yes, but you can also get it on the normal guy, cheaper. Yeah, no, yeah. Yes, I don't agree, I don't disagree. He's bad. Right. It's shame because I wish he would have been good because he can be a general. You can actually take him as your general in cities of Sigma armies. Because he's a coalition unit that actually allows you to get your heal hours. You break the rules and be a general. Anyways, Astria Soulbright, another, I hate all these Hammers and Sigma characters that we gotta plow through, but whatever. She has the whole cycle to storm. She can reroll charges at the start of the combat phase. She can pick a friendly Hammers and Sigma sacrosanct unit and add one to save rolls for attacks made with melee weapons that target that unit, which is a good ability. That is a good ability. Let's just go ahead and credit where credit. And her spell is pretty bad because it is the shortest range thing in the universe. Astria is 195 points. Not bad. She's not that expensive, honestly. But I mean, that's what the normal guy is, right? Like the non-rained one. Yes, well, we'll get to it, we'll get to it. But yeah, I mean, she's, I don't see her. Here's my answer. Yes, we'll get to the generic one. And I think the generic one is where you wanna go. I mean, I think, okay, real quick, just in one real quick note, she could do Mystic Shield and the Soul Energy the first hose and give one unit plus two to save or two units plus one to save. That's pretty good. That is true. It's absolutely true. I mean, I don't wanna discount her completely. She's like, anybody that has on their scroll, click a button and give somebody plus one to save. Yeah. Is not, that's- Well, actually those cats, like the cats already are on the floors. And so she like, she's gonna wanna, well, I was gonna say she wants to run with cats, but actually she doesn't because she doesn't have the generic wound bonus for other cats. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, she's still a single caster. It's a lot of points. She is relatively tough. Like she is on a three up save, but again, no word. So it's like- Yeah. Okay. It is probably a skip. Who's targeting her? Yeah, it's a fair point, sure. Yeah. Garda Steel Soul, old baby, he got better. Not as good as he should be, but he got better. So this is better than the travesty that was his last scroll. Yeah. And this model is supremely awesome. So whatever. Five inch move, six wounds, three up save. Hey, he fixed his armor. No more, does he have a four up save? He's down to the three up. His stupid cloak is dumb and he should feel bad about it, whatever, it doesn't matter. His Runeblade Warhammer, this is the first time I'll mention it. He now has the standard, like Lord level stat attack profile. Yeah. So the standard Stormcast Lord level character is now five attacks, threes, threes, neg one, two damage. That's just, you're gonna see that stat block repeated. A lot. Okay. And he's 160 points now. So he did go up, but his aura of purity gives all friendly Hollowed Knights unit, holy within 12 of him, a ward of five plus. Whoa, way better. Like awesome, amazing, fantastic, love it. Yes. Including him, by the way. Like obviously he has a Hollowed Knight and gives it to himself. And so if he's destroyed on a two plus, he fights before he's removed from play, fine. And then Saintly Assault, if you have other Hollowed Knights heroes when he charges, he can give them all plus one attack. So if you're running a hero heavy thing, he can actually force multiply them out pretty good. Not a command point, by the way, thing. Just a thing he can do once for you. I love him. Yeah, he's good. And I love that they're aware in the art of the hero pose, the hero landing. Yeah, yeah. And so they model him in a crater. Yeah, yeah. Tree. Like they put his base in a crater. It makes me giggle. Yeah, I'm down. Like all of mine are basically already painted to be like Hollowed Knights or some variant of Hollowed Knights. And so I saw this and I'm like, I'm happy with this. I'm in. Yeah. Like I have no problem. A good word save that he passes out and a good ability to force and multiply other heroes nearby. And we up his attack profile and fixed his same. Great. He's doing everything that I would want him to do. Right. He's good. He's so much better than the regular Lord Celestant for like 30 points more, even though he has faction locked. It's shocking. It's shocking. Okay, the Lord Celestant on Star Drake, our big old Star Drake hero. Tom, I'm gonna kick to you on this one first after I give the basics here. Because you've always loved the Lord Celestant on Star Drake. 18 wounds, three ups saved, nine bravery. Again, better wound chart. Now you know, zero to eight. Better wounds. Yeah, yep. Better wounds. Better wounds and better chart. Yes, a hundred percent. Still has like the hammer or the blade. And you know, those are, it's whatever. I would probably honestly take the hammer because I know that because Ren too is pretty good in this game. He still adds to casting rolls for wizards. That subtracts one for enemy casting rolls. He can still do his cavernous draws trick and eat people. His Thunder Shield is the unmodified save roll for an attack made with a melee weapon that targets this unit is six. The attacking unit suffers one more to wound after all attacks have been resolved. It's the exact same language as the other one, Tom, by the way that we mentioned earlier. Yeah, but it's not like, I hear that. The question is, is it an effect that triggers on six? Because if that is the case, then Archeon's old like reroll six's ability, like if you have a buff and they have a buff, somebody would get to choose which one. There are, well, a lot of those things got removed, but the trick is that it doesn't clash if one is on the final roll and one is on an unmodified roll. There's a sequencing to it. I did a show about it. It's fine. Like sometimes they clash, sometimes they don't as the answer. Yeah. And then once per battle, this unit can issue a command to a friendly storm cast eternal as a unit, a holy within 12 without a command point being spent. Okay. The Lord's Celestant on Star Drake, this big boy. He is 500 points, Tom. Five, honey. Straight up quarter your army. Where are you living on this guy? Is he worth it? Is he good? Did we get there? I really struggle with him now. Losing reroll ones to save is a really big deal. Sure. Sure. I took him over the, the, the Templar because of the reroll ones to save. Sure. Because he needs to be an Anvil. And I'm just not sure that he is now. Rain of Stars is also weaker and that, and that makes my soul hurt. It is. Yes. It's not just like anywhere on the battlefield. It's not just a shooting. It's not mortal wounds. Right. It's not just, it's not straight. It's just a shooting attack with nectri-rend. Yeah. Right. And so- Wait, real quick. In favor of Rain of Stars, you can unleash hell with it now. Also true. Also true. True. I don't hate that. Um, I don't know. I'm really mixed on this guy. It makes me sad, but like I want him to be better than he is. For 500. What's your feeling? Okay. Today in our local chat, we've had lots of debate on the Star Drake. I've gone up and down on him because I also have a Star Drake that I've lovingly converted and modeled and it bones me out that he's not better than he is. I don't think he's terrible, but they made decisions that I just don't understand. So he used to have a command, they removed all command abilities. That's fine. I'm fine with that. But he had a command ability that only targeted Drakoff and whatever Star Drakes basically. Right. And it was terrible. It was bad. No one ever used it. It was awful. Right. But they just added dragons formally to Stormcast and they removed his ability. It's like, what? Why? Like the one time that ability would finally be actually used, it's gone. And so it doesn't make much sense to me. His sword used to be able to spike and now it's just boring and bad. You know, I think in favor of the Star Drake though. So those are just a couple of things that I just didn't understand. I hate the random attack characteristic on the tail. But in favor of, or just, yeah, I don't know, or kind of similar to the tail that the other dragons have or something. I don't know. But in favor of the Star Drake, I think he's a prime candidate for the Arcane Tome because he can buff himself and give him plus one to cast. So that's it. And so giving him flaming weapons is interesting. But the thing I think that sticks out to me is the cavernous jaws in 3.0 is stronger than it ever was before because you can remove champions from units and so they can't issue command abilities themselves. Right. So if you go, it's always been good, but in this edition, I think it's better than ever. And so I think that's pretty valuable. He also makes the baby dragons battle line. Yes, he does. Yep. Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure he's 500, but he's not that far off because I mean, you can build around this guy a lot, right? There are mount traits, there are command traits you can give to him. There are artifacts, you know, you obviously you're gonna put an amulet of destiny on this guy if you want him to be your, if he's your general, you know, and you want him to survive. And suddenly he's like 18 wounds on a three up, five up, that's a whole different profile. Like instantly that's a completely different profile, right? In what it's achieving. So, you know, I think he's maybe a little bit over-costed. He's never been the damage machine. And I feel like we could have pushed a little bit more damage on him, honestly. That's I think the one thing I'm sad about. He's not quite as offensive as he should be for what this model is. For 500. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's what I would say. But again, he can be super tough, right? Like you have Celestial Menagerie, so he's nagged one to wound all the time. He has the amulet on him. He can have the retreat and charge mount trait, so he can leave combat he doesn't want to be in and just go attack somebody else. You know, like he's got game. I don't want to sit here and pretend like he's just a nothing burger, right? Correct. If he's over, he's probably just not quite as offensive as we'd want him to be for what he is. No, that's been the case with Star Drake forever, which is it's irritating, it's still the case. Yeah. I think the issue is you can get two of the Hero Baby Dragons, what is it? What is it called? The Night Draconess. What is it? You can get two of them for like what, 20 points more? And they are. The Night Draconess is 255, so it's 10 points more. Yeah, they're objectively better than he is. Right. Yep, and I mean, we'll talk about, I mean, there's the problem of, of course, there is some power to concentrated wounds and abilities that you put in one thing, right? There's also downsides to that. I don't disagree with you and that's when we get to the three dragons, the Night Draconess and then his little baby dragons, one of the big problems with this book right now is they're under pointed. I mean, that's just, I'll give the game away now. They're under pointed for what they are. Like just absolutely, clearly, fantastically under pointed. And happily, that's an easy problem to fix, right? Like there's nothing fundamentally wrong with this guy's scroll. Knock him down 25 points or something like that, 30 points. I'm a lot happier with him. Knock the, the Night Draconess up 30, 40 points at least. Suddenly we're having a completely different discussion, right? But that's the kind of moves you need to make. We just didn't dial in the points exactly, right? But that's okay. That could be fixed this winter, you know? Right, very quickly. Yeah. All right, Gav, Gabriel Sherhart. Well, he doesn't, he's not sure charge anymore. That's fine. He has, he has the standard storm cast attack profile. He has once more for Sigmar charge, which lets him re-roll charge rolls for this unit in addition once per turn. He can issue the forward to victory command to hammer as a Sigmar units without a command point being spent and he has the Thunder Shield. Yep. So moving on because we're not taking him anymore. No one's ever going to run him. And that's fine. Keep moving. Yeah, he's 130 points. Next. Okay, Nave Black Talon should make sure, sure does make a lot of attacks with those axes that aren't going to do anything. Cool model. I mean, what I'll say is this, I love the teleporting. Yeah, but I'd rather take the generic one, not the named one. That's the problem. I agree, I agree. No, no, no, I don't disagree with that. Yeah. Share her like extra two attacks or whatever are like. Nope. Nope. So that's fine. Skip, she's 120 points by the way. All right, Lord Arcade, I'm on Toralon. Let's see if I can defend this guy. Here we go. All right, this is going to be a tough one, but I'm ready. Okay, okay. 14 inch move, 12 wounds, three have saved nine bravery. His little eighth or staff has only rend one as opposed to the Magister of Hammerhole. And, you know, he doesn't do a lot of damage. He's a single cast wizard. None of these things are good things I'm saying so far. I promise I'll get to the defense. He's 285 points. Okay, comet trail. After this unit has made a normal move, add one to hit rolls for attacks made by friendly storm cast, Eternals and cities of Sigmar units within three inches of this unit until your next hero phase. So he lands, he gives them the buff to anybody around him and it just rides. They can then go charge away, do whatever they want. Okay. Now, he also has cycle to storm and he also has lightning orb, which is just a little mortal wound splash thing. Okay, he is a little too expensive. All right, but he is a more mobile, tougher by far, per economy. That's my argument. Okay, because obviously it's not holy within three. He just needs to touch the base of one guy in the unit and he gives that whole unit plus one to hit just by moving around and landing. And, you know, he's a big dude on a three up save. Like he's tougher. He's far more mobile. He can fly. He's faster. He buffs cities units as well, which is cool. So if you are using storm keeps and have brought in some cool cities units, he can give them plus one to hit as well as your storm cast. The hurricane doesn't work the opposite way, right? Like it's not gonna affect your storm cast dudes. He does. Now, you know, look, the hurricane has some nice advantages namely having a big sweet mortal wound storm of Shemtech that is incredible, right? Like no joke. That's amazing, all right? But that is a on an aura on a fairly fragile unit and that aura can shrink real fast. You know, he doesn't lose. He doesn't have a monster chart. He is a monster. He does not have a monster chart. So his 14 inch move is locked. He's got one wound. He can still move his max move, drop in, give the plus one to many units. Okay? So in my book, he should be about 260, 265. He needs to be about 20, 25 points cheaper than where he is. But I think he's interesting mainly because of comet trail. So, you know, like because he's not as bound, he doesn't force you into a tiny castle. You can still like have a couple of guys tailing out a little bit, land, get that unit, that unit, that unit, boom. I think it's pretty cool. What do you think? Have I at least made a sort of case for him? I don't know. I get, I have a hard time getting excited about him. I mean, for his points costs right now, I just, what is it, 285 right now? 285, yeah. Yeah, I just think of other things I can get for 285. That is fair. That is fair. That's what I'm saying. He needs to be a little cheaper. But I think he's got potential. Move his nice points down. He used to be a double caster, didn't he? Yeah, he did, yeah. That's a real shame. It is. I, like, because what's his, the name don't instill a double caster. This guy's not. Yeah. I like that he, that he buffs city's units. I mean, that's, that's interesting for like a city's a sigma army. Yeah, sure. Sure. Hey, he said the silence was deafening. Yeah. I don't think I sold him. I don't think I sold him. It's really just how valuable is plus one to hit, right? And I don't know that it's fine. Plus one, it's pretty good. It's very good. I must say it's, I'm just saying, is it 285 points valuable? I mean, people spend 280 on a Huracanum and that's often what it ends up doing. Huracanum blasts above the table. Yeah. It often also storms people. Yep. Unless you're like me, where you love rolling ones on your storm or shem tech. But yes. Okay. I agree he's weaker than he probably should be for his points cost. But again, I feel like this guy, there is a right points cost where he could be interesting. It's not that far off is my argument. So, Markham is a potential future. How about that? Lord Celestant on Dracoth. Okay. This guy has a lot of rules. They're all to do with his different stupid weapons. It doesn't matter. He has his storm blast. All of the Dracoths have a unified storm blast now. I'll explain that right here. Do not use the attack sequence for a storm blast. Instead, roll a die on a four plus the target suffers D three mortal wounds, which is good. It's nice because it's just one target. Four up, can't be given neg one to hit or anything like that. It's just, you roll a die, it happens. All of the Dracoths do that. And he can issue all our command for free once per battle to storm cast units. Seven wounds, three ups, nine bravery. The Lord Celestant on Dracoth, 215 points. What's your feeling? There's just so many units. Yeah. Sure. Like we're running, we're running out of steam here. Oh, we got so many more guys. You better, you better shovel some gold. For me, it's just that like I look at this guy and I'm just like, why? Like there's other things I would run and set in. Yeah. Sure. It's fair. It's a fair answer. Like that's what I struggle with with a lot of these. Vandas is the same points cost? Vandas is the same points cost, yes. But I mean, Vandas is locked in hammers, right? So, I mean, if you were in hammers, there'd be no reason you'd ever take the generic one if you're outside hammers, then maybe something different. I do think he could be interesting in a redeemer build, like I said, with the six inch pylon trait, right? Where he's just bouncing around and pitting. That storm strike glaive, is that with the impaling strike on the charge is really good. It is really good, yeah. Five attacks, three, three, snag two, goes to three damage on the charge. Yeah, yeah. Like, he's got a decent attack profile. I mean, heck, he's better than a Star Drake in combat. I mean, you're not wrong. I'm really not far off. I mean, he's certainly better than 50% of a Star Drake. Okay, let's keep going. Baboom, Lord Arcanum on Celestial Dracolene. So this is one of the people we talked about previously. The Lord Arcanum on Celestial Dracolene. Where the heck is this idiot? 200 points. So that's what we're dealing with here. Eight wounds, three up save, nine bravery. Basically nothing in melee, because it doesn't matter. Built-in rear roll charge has the pack alpha thing. Add one to the attacks characteristic of monstrous claws. Used by friendly Dracolene units, holy within 18 inches of this army. So good, or sorry, of this unit. And Storm Lance is a spell cast of five, range of 12. If successfully cast, pick one upon the battlefield and range invisibly cast or draw a straight line between that point and the closest part of this base for each enemy unit passed across by that line on a four plus, they take D3 mortals. So I mean, you're gonna take this if you wanna run Jack lines, right? I mean, that's the reason you use this guy. That beginning and end of discussion, yeah? Right. That's it. I mean, I like in this case, they kept some flavor and like a clear use, right? I mean, I think that doesn't happen in all of them. We'll get to one later that I'm annoyed by it, but this is one where they, this model is a clear, like, you know. It just says like, hey, I'm a power pair, use me, right? Like, yep, this is, you like kitty caters? I'm your man, right? And he does have some good mount rates he can take. So like, you can build around this guy. I like that guy. I don't, I like him as well. I think he's, like, again, depending on your build, this guy could have some play. I absolutely think so. Like, if you're doing a Dracoline build, but you know, it's fine. Yep. I am a fan of him. Yep. David Herron says, you got to stop this man reads book redux. What do you, how do you want me to read them, David? Put in the chat how I should be handling it. I'm all ears, buddy. We could be like, hey, these are the good scrolls. These are the ones you need to, you know, like how we've traditionally done, outrageously. Well, somebody might love something and then I skip it. I can be shorter if you want. Okay, that's fine. You can try to have more hot take this. We can, we can hot take it out. That's fine. I'm trying to like say what they work with, what they don't. We're getting to the point where we're going to have units that we're just gonna more hot take. A lot of those guys, like we hot-taked a few of them. We hot-taked right through Dave and the other ones, right? Just some of those behooved discussion. But I love the feedback, David. I'm ready for it. The Lord Arcane, I'm on Griff Charger and the Lord Aqualor. I mean, both of these are actually quite similar because they're on little bird mounts. This is the first time we should talk about ride the winds etheric. Instead of picking this unit- Oh, man, I love that. Yes, instead of picking this unit to make a normal mover or tree, you can say that it will ride the winds etheric. If you do so, remove this unit from the battlefield and set it up on the, again, on the battlefield more than one inch from all terrain features and objectives and more than nine inches from all enemy units. Okay. Oh, David said I prefer this format more by the way of performative dance. Now that I can do, okay, excellent. Performative dance. All right, so this is the bird guy and he wants to just teleport away from you. There he goes. Okay. Yeah, I mean, the teleport is super cool. I love ride the winds etheric now. I really do. I've saw some people complaining about it. I do not understand that at all. Ride the winds etheric is super good now. You can just teleport away from people. That's amazing. Just reset up this whole army every round. Like I do not understand how this is bad. It's extremely mobile. It struggles with objectives, right? I mean, that's the best challenge. But at the same time, it also makes your opponent always defend every objective they're near with stuff all the time, every time, right? Because if they, the second they walk away from an objective, you take it instantly. Tom, you play KO, an army that has things that teleport every round. Yeah. Yeah. How's that feel to just be able to go, I'm not here and resets up nine inches away. Now, given you're shooting on some of those units, some of them shoot for crap. Nobody takes gun haulers because they're amazing firepower. Right, right, right, right, right. It's amazingly powerful to be able to just redeploy across the table. And like I said, when I read that, I was like, oh, I'll run these. Yeah. Yeah. As the owner of many pallidors, I'm all for it. This is like, this is everything I've hoped for. And I'll be honest, I actually misread that rule again. I take back what I said. It doesn't struggle to hold objectives. I find it said nine inches away from objectives, but it's nine inches away from enemy units. Yeah, it's one after objectives. You just literally can't sit right on the thing, like, oh no. So scrub what I said like a minute and a half ago. Gotcha. I'll edit it out. Yeah, yeah, get that in post. Sure, we'll get that in post. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, the Lord Arcanum is a fairly, oh, by the way, just to give you the points here, the Lord Arcanum on Griffcharger is 195. The Lord Aquilore is 200 even. So they're both about the same price. So here's one of the big, one of my big, like, hate it. Is the Lord Aquilore. This is one that I love this model, love like the role he's supposed to play. And I feel like they just took any kind of flavor out of this model completely. Like he used to have a really interesting commandability where you could redeploy units with them and kind of bounce around the table and stuff. It wasn't used as often, but it was really interesting. And I felt like he had a really themy kind of combination with the units in the Vanguard chamber. And now he can issue a commandability to Vanguard unit for free. It just seems like such a meh, like mailed in, like version of what it could be. I just feel like this is one example of rules writers eliminate it for simplicity and eliminating interest, interesting rules for, and losing flavor. That's fair. I think that's fair. Like I get where you're going with that. I think that this is again, sometimes you need an army that just has like, the simple stuff is the good stuff and five free command points is pretty good, right? Like that's pretty good. Like that's actually an innately incredibly powerful ability. Right? Right, right. But you're right, it doesn't read techie or Johnny. And I think a lot of times how well you read this book as being interesting is like how much into Johnny you lean, right? Like to me, that didn't eliminate any flavor. I don't care. It does what I want it to do, right? Like it gives my Vanguard units five free things every game. That's good, right? Like it's prima facie, functionally good and has a cool ability and ride the winds etheric, right? Which I think is super flavorful and that this guy's using his teleporter. And he's a decent beater too. What, what? He's a decent beater too. He's okay. He's okay. Looks like he carried away. Yeah, he is armed with all of that stuff. Like he's not forced to make a choice, which is- He's making that entire profile. Yeah, he's okay. Yeah, he's fine. It felt like one, it felt like a letdown for me because I feel like the Vanguard units in general more interesting than they used to be. And I feel like instead of having a really interesting leader, like a lot of other parts of the, like a lot of other chambers have, Vanguard chamber doesn't have. Okay, I get that. That's fair. The Lord Arcanum, by the way, the cool thing about it is just that it, they have a good heel. That's why you would take the Lord Arcanum because they have a good heel spell. And like D3 slash D6. Yeah, I mean, it's a powerful ability. Like, healing is good. So- And they still stop, they still stop the death of one model. Like that does occasionally do something. They still have cycle of the storm. Yes. For some reason, we decided to keep cycle of the storm. Yes, I agree. For reasons I cannot comprehend. It's bizarre. That rule. So yeah. Okay. But yes, he can teleport every round, both of them can if they're on the birds. Most basically anything in the Vanguard chamber, a lot of it can just teleport every round. Yeah, it's not terrible. No. Lord Imperitence, we saw him already. He's the new guy. He's good. Again, free command points. And he can make one unit every round drop within seven inches. So. Which I don't hate that. Nope. He's good. Simple, effective. He's fine. The Lord Imperitence, 175 points. He did go up some. He's worth it. Gets a burp. So that's cool. He has a little bird friend. Lord Celestines. Oh boy. Oh boy. So this guy's just bad now. The Lord Celestines, 130 points. He's six moves on a three up save. He has the standard Sigmar profile, the standard Lord profile. If he hits on a six, it's two mortal wounds and it stops and once per battle, he can issue an all out attack for free. Well, Hachi Machi. Like, this guy does nothing. Poor guy. Yeah, like, nope. Pass. Nothing to see here, move along. Right, like pass. Hard, hard pass. Oh, also obviously the Warclobe range attack is just terrible now, but whatever. It was always stupid. I always hated the cloak that threw hammers. I just wish they would have cut it. It should be an aesthetic thing. Like, either make it something real or get rid of it. Stop doing whatever you're doing. Okay, Lord Relicter. Let's talk about old models that got a sweet buff. Oh, this guy, I'm in for him. I'm in for grins on this dude, Mr. Skullface. Okay, Lord Relicter, six moves, three up save. He has the Lord Priest profile, which is like four attacks on the same thing. Yep. I had one to chanting rolls. He does the storm cast prayers on a two and he does the like curse on a three, baby. Yeah. Dude is a beast. I love this guy. He still has his heal, still has his mortal wounds slash neg one to hit prayer. He's super good. He's 145 points. He's also gained the totem keyword by the by. Small note. I'll try to mention it when it's relevant, but because he's a totem, even if he's not your general, he can issue commands up to 18 inches away. Yeah. So like, And great. And he's been, he's been doing some agility work in the gym because he got an inch faster. He did. Yeah, he's been, he's been, it's been, he skipped leg day back at the beginning of Age of Sigmar that he learned. Yeah. He's been, he's figured it out. So good, great. Fantastic staple. Like in my top six heroes in the army, right? Which is relevant because you can get six heroes in an army. So, you know, he's so good. Like he is absolutely top six. Let's talk about another guy in my top six. Lord Castellan. So still gets his little burb. Now he has eight wounds because of the bird. Because they just folded the bird in his profile. It's great. In your hero phase, you can either pick one friendly storm cast and turn his unit wholly within 18 or one enemy unit wholly within 18. I hate that the enemy unit has to be wholly within, but I don't care. You're never going to use that setting anyways. Right. And if you pick the friendly unit, which is what you're going to do, plus one to save roles. There it is. Just does it automatically and he is a totem. Still good. Still good. Winner, winner, chicken dinner. 155 points again. Love this guy. Yeah. Like I have no issues with this dude. But so ever. Those are all both the relic are in the castle and both kind of standby is in my old storm cast build. They'll still be there. They're great. They're still good. They will often find a slot in so many lists because again, they're still so solid. What they can do, right? They just provide raw utility power. Yeah, they're good. Lord Exorcist. What you watch? We're really going to the flip side of the previous two here real hard. Like this is gonna, whoa. You get some whiplash on this. Okay. Okay. The Lord Exorcist again, has the priest attack profile, six ones, three up. His like, his spell is bad. I don't even, you have to do like stupid math to calculate if you get to do D3 mortals. His redemptor casket is an interesting ability, but you're not going to take it through him. The redemptor casket is slain models cannot be returned to enemy units that are within nine inches of any friendly units with his ability. That is a very, very, very interesting ability, okay? But you would never main this guy. This is like, I've never seen a more strong sideboard card printed as a model than this dude, right? Like Tom, tell me this isn't like the Tivedar's crusade of models. Destroy all of that ones. Yeah, I mean, what I would say is this, I hear that Vince, but the farther I've gotten into this edition, the more I'm thinking that this guy, like, so he used to be 95 points. He jumped up to 120, is that right? Lord Exorcist 170, Tom. Oh, never mind, I was just kidding. No, the reason why is like, there are a number of things that will, that like put models back on the table. Totally agree. You know, like every army with rally. Sure, sure, but I would point out that being in combat, which you often will be to be within nine, not always, but often, will also stop rally, strangely. Right, sure. But I'm thinking about even things like horrors. Yeah, sure. Well, I guess. I mean, it doesn't work with horrors because they're not slain. Right, they're not slain. What you're talking about here is like, we would screw over, like night-hot chain rasps in Reignors are like screwed hard, right? Because suddenly they get nothing back. There's actually, the trick with it is, this as a main is bad. There's a better way to get at this without sacrificing. Sure, let's do a sequitur unit. Correct, yeah. Yeah, you're never going to take this guy. You're just going to take sequiturs. That's it. Yep. It's easy. So, no bad pass. Lord Varitant, pass. So wait, here's a quick question. What point value would that Lord Exorcist be valuable on? Oh my God, so much less than what he is. I do not know how far he'd have to fall a lot. Like a lot. Like so many. Many, many. I'm going to say 120. I don't even think he'd be worth it at that. I really don't, man. I really don't. He's, he need to go even lower. He's just bad. Like I just. Okay. Well, we can think about it later, but just something to think about. The Lord Varitant, 155 points. Also a priest, also a totem. His prayer is bad. It just does damage. And he can attempt to. He has a gris found on his base. He does. There is no world where this guy at 155 and the Castellate at 155, and I go, yeah, give me that Varitant. No world. You could be, the permutation of a million realities. I never make that choice. Okay. And so Hades, yes, stopping revive, reviving slain models is decent. It's a good ability, but there's no reason to have to take a Lord exorcist to do it for things we'll see later. That's, you don't, you don't need this piece. We're going to get that same ability in a better way. These two are the dark, awful inversions of the previous two. They're just worthless. Good. There you go. Okay. What is happening? Oh, there we go. Sorry. There we go. All right. The Lordinator, our old buddy, the Lordinator. He's back 130 points, still gives plus one to hit for order war machines, holy within nine. And then he has a little thing with his hammer that nobody cares about. Cause you're taking this guy for 130 points to get plus one to hit with war machines. That's why you're taking it, right? Yeah. I'm still really good if you're trying to, if you're doing that build. Sure. Like that's, that's what it is. And I will say Ballistas are interesting. Well, we'll talk, I'll be interested to get everybody's take on Ballistas. Right now they're in a tough spot given the dragon points, but we'll see. Again, dragons are incorrectly pointed. So it's not fair to like points or points, points can move. All right. It's the fundamentals of the thing. If the dragons go up 40 points and Ballistas come down 10 or whatever, you know what I mean? Like things happen. So like, yeah, here we go. Points are very dynamic. Okay. The Lord Arcanum. All right. What's special about this guy? He can move predatory endless spells six more. Endless spell thing. Yep. That's it. Yeah. And then you can give people neg one to hit. Is, and the Lord Arcanum is 155 points. Are you ever taking this guy solely for the extra six inches to endless spell movement? That's the only reason why you're taking him. Sure. I understand. And I get that. I'm saying, does he make you the cut of being in a list because of that ability? That's what I'm asking. I think a better question is, are you casting a lot of predatory endless spells with Stormcast? Probably not. Yeah. I'm trying to figure out what I would be casting with Stormcast because like none of their, like their hammer spell isn't good. Okay. Let me give you the one situation that I constructed where I think you could take this. You might take this guy. Okay. If you were running a heavy mortal wound splash build. Okay. The diff, like, and you had something like the burning head or other similar summon within six and then it moves eight predatories to be splashing mortal wounds around. Right? Could be jaws, could be whatever. Could be the various things the two D three mortals in the endless spells. All right? Like in the generics. The difference between six and eight and six and 14 means you hit the enemy line round one. Yep. That's the difference. Okay. So if you were going for a crazy all in splash mortal wounds around build, I could see it. Yeah. Haiti said, what about life swarm? Maybe, I'm not sure life swarm is like going to do a super huge lot against it in a lot of builds that you're gonna have for Stormcast, but maybe, sure, you could, you're a life swarm could go farther. It's not bad. There are a lot of ways to return models and to heal and all that kind of stuff. I don't think life swarms actually needed really. Yeah. Yeah, I think I'd rather build into other ways to get models back than spend a life swarm. I think he's probably a skip is my answer. Like I said, there might, I need to play around with the like mortal wounds all around the world, build and see if I can get anywhere with it. And then maybe he'd have a place in there. Maybe. Hard maybe. Drake Sworn Templar, he has a four up save. We can now stop discussing this guy. That's it. Yeah, not very compelling. Like I wish I had more to say about him than that. He, you know, he's 455 compared to the other guy. He has a lot of different weapons he can take. And, you know, like, you know, yes, he has stuff like the Storm Lance where he can go in on a monster. And if you hit on a six, he does D6 mortal wounds to the monster, which is cool. Like that's a cool ability. Okay, I'm not gonna say it's not. He always gets his bow now, which I appreciate. So that's cool. I don't know what that bow is actually doing, but at least he gets it. He doesn't need it anymore because now that Rain of Stars is a shooting attack, you know, the old Drake in Star Drake in Living Cities. So you could then move after you shot like you had to have the bow guy. So he could move, but you don't need that anymore because Rain of Stars is a shooting attack now. Yeah, it's weird. I don't know. This guy, I mean, because the thing is, like you do the Storm Lance and then you charge into a monster, maybe you do six mortal wounds, but then you're stuck fighting a monster. And it's like, oh, great. This is exactly where Star Drake wants to be. Like, I do not understand how a guy head to toe, completely clad in Sigmarite Armor, on a dragon, completely clad in Sigmarite Armor. What is the relevant difference between this guy and his buddy that is a four up save here and a three up save there? It's a shield. It's a tiny, tiny shield. That's doing a lot of work. That dude's like, It's like the, it's a map. An animated shield. Yeah, it's like the Macross Point Defense shield system, right? It's the animated shield from D&D, right? Yeah. It just floats around in trouble. He just loses it at the start of the fight. Yeah, it's true. An animated shield can only float for what, five rounds or something like that. So that is true. That's all you need in a game. It's five rounds. Yeah, never mind. Go away. Night Dracotus. Oh, you sweet, sweet summer child. You underpointed beautiful baby. Okay. Look, I love him so much. And I know he's cheap right now, but I don't care. I don't care. He's underpointed. Let's start at the beginning. He's 255 points. It's way too cheap for what I'm about to read. 12 inch move, 11 wounds three up save. Avery, very fine. He has the draconic flame stream. It's the same shooting as the other dragon as that we mentioned, right? As Crandus and his big baby, his big brother. He has arcane heritage, which gives let's him ignore spells on a four up. So that's cool. Both he and the little boys have that. It's fine. Not a bad thing. He has the wrath of the draconith. Once per battle in your hero phase, you can pick one friendly storm drake guard unit. That's the baby dragons. There's holy within 12 of this unit that has not made a shooting attack in that phase. That unit can shoot. That's super good. That's super good. If you had a unit of four drakes, that's about eight more to wounds. That's what comes out of it. In the hero phase. So it's solid and it's even more solid when we get to their abilities because they can very easily be where they need to be to maximize that attack. For reasons we'll see on their scroll. And then he has like a dragged into the tempest ability, which is just cavernous draws by a different name. But except that he doesn't get to pick the model, the enemy gets to pick the model. So you can't kill a champion. You just kill a random guy in the unit. But that's cool. The important part about him is that his main sword, his aeon fire blade, which cool ass name, threes twos, neg three rend, two damage each. Love me some neg three rend. So yeah, this guy's good. He needs to be more points. Yeah, he's a beast. And just these models, I mean, they're awesome. They're just so cool. Yeah. Love them. Amazing models. I love this dude. I do hope his points go up some, but I like, I'm gonna run him. I'd run him. If they would have come out and been bad, I would still be running him. I don't care. The scrolls could have been blank. They could have been ipsum lorem text. I would have put them on the table. Legit, all right. So whatever. Yeah, just move up some points and run a good place. He's a great thing. He is a monster. He has not a strike, all that kind of stuff. He has all the fun toys. He has all the fun toys. As good as a breath weapon is, Candace. Yeah, sure. They all do. Okay. Dante says the nitriconis is the best hero in the book at his current points. I'd have to think on that. He might be. He is one of the, he also makes the baby's dragon's battle line. That might be true. Like pound for pound, point for point. That might be true, Dante. I'd have to think on that. He's a beast. He's real good. Night relic tour, hot liquid garbage. Just the worst. The night relic tour is 140 points. He has bad attacks and his only ability is each time a friendly storm cast eternal's unit wholly within 12 of him is affected by a prayer or the abilities of an invocation. You can roll a die and on a four plus you ignore the effects of that prayer or invocation. So he is a priest, which means he's gonna, he can pray, right? He is a priest. He can pray, yes. He has one prayer every round, yep. He doesn't have any prayer himself. But he gets the free one. Yep, yep, I get to select a prayer. And the relic tour is 155, is that what he's done? 145, five points more. Oh, five points more for the ability to get plus one to pray and two solid prayers on the war scroll. And this guy needs to be like 110. This guy is straight garbage. I honestly, if he was way cheaper, I still don't think I'd take him. I just think that ability is bad. Like will it, will it do something sometimes? Sure, sometimes. Sometimes you might get blood boiled by somebody psychotic enough to still take slaughter priests. Sometimes you might get an like a magma spitter invocation at you or something or a Raphax from a corn player. Sure, those things could happen. And then it'll be really neat to ignore that plan on a four plus. I also, by the way, I think this model is super ugly. I know there's some real stands for this model in the chat. So hi everyone who loves this, I apologize. A static sense is deeply personal. If this model revs your engine. Cool, I'm glad I'm happy for you. I just think he's ugly as sin. I will say this. If he were like a hundred points and you can take a prayer on him, like translocation or something and you couldn't fit a relector. Yeah. Like the normal relector. I think he's a take. Because you don't care about his ability. You just take him for the prayer. Yeah, like if he was, you're right. If he was like way cheaper percentage wise. A lot of the points that I've been talking about moving are like, oh, they need to go 10% up, 15% up, something like that, right? This guy needs to go down 40% something crazy to be useful. But I agree. If he was like a hundred points, sure, sure. Did he agree? Like he would give a cheap alternative as a priest. And that's what he needs to be doing. Like lords need to be like 30% or more, more than Knights of the equivalent thing. Yeah. Hades, I want to know if you're still thinking about points in the scope of AOS 2. I think that whatever points you think AOS 3 is adding about 20% to that. No, I'm absolutely thinking of the off points. Yeah, I mean, and I'm comparing them in book to each other. Like again, Knight relector to Lord relector, right? Like that's, I don't know a clearer distinction than those two, right? They are in the same chart. A hundred and Hades said because a hundred points is cheap for unit 3.0, criminally cheap for a hero. Sure, there is a hero in this book that's 105 points. There are lots of heroes in the game still. We're going to review next week, a hero way less than a hundred points that is awesome in the Auric War Clan's book. So they're still around and they can still be valuable. Most of my heroes in KO are a hundred or less. Right. Right. Yeah, I mean, I threw out a hundred but I actually, and legitimately that guy, I mean that. Because this guy is horrific. He's bad, like very bad, like embarrassingly bad. Yes, it just feels like they accidentally left his prayer out or something like, oops, did we ship? Hey, did you ever write the prayer for that Knight relector? No, was I supposed to? Oh, that's like, I don't know. It's like, why did those 870 horse rolls, I don't know. Yeah, like somebody had to make a mold for this model for some reason. Right. Yes, exactly. All right, Knight Judicator. This guy's really interesting to me, like super interesting. All right. Not at 200. I'm even interested in him at 200 but we'll talk it through. Six inch move, five wounds, three up save. He has his Terminus Grapebow, 30 inch range, two attacks, three's twos, neg three rend, three damage. The first time he set up, he also gets two Griffhounds, which is cool. Like those are normal true Griffhounds so they can do the Bork. And once for battle in your shooting phase, he will orbital strike. He can call down the gaze of Sigmar which is just an orbital strike. And so instead of attacking with its missile weapons, if you do so pick one point on the battlefield, within 30 inch of this unit invisible to it, roll the die for each enemy unit within six inches of that point on a four plus D3 mortal wounds. This guy would be part of my mortal wound strategy by the way, 100%. Yes. You're right. You're absolutely right. He has 205 points Tom, okay. That is so many points. He's a lot. For a five wound hero. He's like on setra levels. But that bow was pretty good. I like neg three rend shots. I wish he had one more attack. I'd like him a lot more with three attacks rather than two. I'll openly say that. But that orbital strike is pretty good. At two, he needs to be like 160. Does he unlock anybody like in like for battle line? Yes, he does. He unlocks the vigilors as battle line, which is actually like if he's the general. Yeah. If he's the general. I don't know that I know vigilors well enough to say whether that's good or not. We'll get to him. Think about it when we get to vigilors. Here's what I'll say. I agree with you. I think this guy is slightly overcosted. But at the same time, all shooting in both books is pretty expensive. Okay. Like shooting is generally expensive and fragile. And you know what? Good. Good. Like that's not bad. We've spent the last three years complaining about shooting. Okay. And like, and how much we hate shooting and like it's the number one rated NPE. And gosh, if only we could, we didn't have shooting being the king. And then they actually correctly or up point even maybe slightly a shooting unit, that's a better place to be in than slightly undercosted. Right. Agreed. Like honest talk and chat, put it in there. Okay. Like I would love to hear the chat's opinion on this. A lot of people watching right now. Would you rather have shooting be slightly overcosted in the game or slightly undercosted in the game? Which should shooting be, especially in non primary shooting armies? Go ahead. I wait your response. I think I know what the answer is going to be. Okay. Yeah, I think he's interesting. Super cool model. I mean, I'm going to get one of these dudes. He's a very cool model. Night Vexelor. So the regular night Vexelor is 120 points. Six wounds, three ups, save the weaker attack profile. His standard in either case, both these guys have a standard, there's two night Vexelors obviously, the new one and then the original recipe. Both of them are totems. So they both broadcast 18 inch command points. Yep. Okay, cool. I mean, like everybody's saying overcosted because yeah, slightly overcosted. I'm not saying like wackily. I'm just saying like make it a little more expensive. They both allow reroll charges. The Vexelor has the meteoric standard which would be part of my mortal wound strategy because you pick a point on the battlefield. He has the same orbital strike once a game, but his, you don't roll a four up for it. It's just you pick the point and it happens to everybody within six inches, which is like a lot by the by. Okay. We all understand this math. And so, and Liz lab said shooting is keeping corn, demon princes and foxes in check at the moment. That's true, but I don't want to rely, like one, my smorg in my mom once told me that two wrongs don't make a right. She was very wise and foxes are wrong. So the meteoric standard, if you're going part of the mortal wound strategy, that's the one you're going to take because again, it's super strong for dealing mortal wounds, right? For just chip damage. One point, everybody within six inches, every unit within six inches, automatic D three mortals, or you're going to take the pen into the storm bringer so you can just teleport somebody. Yeah. I think in a, I think in a, a storm keep list, I think that pen in the storm, storm bringer is interesting, right? It gives you some mobility. You can move a big block of your, you know, heavy redeemer units forward. Yep. Yeah. Exactly. Like this dude's still good and still reasonably priced. Like I said, he's 120 points. Like that's super reasonable for a six wound three up saved dude with a good ability. And even if you use the ability, he's still running around giving people re-roll charges all the time, which is just as generically good ability and as a totem. Yeah. So, you know, I think I rate that dude. The night vexler with a banner of apotheosis, I don't rate him the new dude. I think he's worse than his old counterpart, like a hundred percent worse because yes, he can do his resurrection trick, but it's very swingy. Cause you know, you're rolling 3D, let's put this straight up into a unit of vindictors. You're rolling three into a unit of vindictors and what you're hoping for is that you get average. Cause then you get three vindictors back, right? But if you roll poorly, which is certainly very possible, you don't get three vindictors back, right? That's what it comes down to. And that's like your once again ability is two guys. Okay. Right? And by the way, this night vexelor is 160 points. He's 40 points more. No, I was gonna say 3D, 3D on a Star Drake is pretty good, but not for any 60 points. Right? No. Like there are just other methods of healing we've talked about, right? The relic tour has healing. There are other people that have healing we could use. Right? Yup. He does look super cool. There's no reason you couldn't just take the new night vexelor. He's got his banner, put on a new banner. Ta-da! Yup. Well, what days will I be a GenCon tomorrow on? Somebody asked what days will I be a GenCon tomorrow on? If you happen to see me, say hi, if you're gonna be there. Yeah, I mean, he's just not worth 40 points more. Old guy, good, new guy, bad. Bad. Yeah. Yeah. Brian said at least three vindictors is a 63% chance. I'm just gonna round up what you said, Brian. And that's my problem. You're right. Three vindictors is only a 63% chance. That's not enough. That means 40% of the time, I'm gonna put it this way. In a tournament, statistically two out of the five games, I don't get my three vindictors back. And that's just one more vindictor that's not even doing that much. Right? That's what we're talking about here. Could I just keep the same banner? Sure, just say he's the old guy. Who cares? Nobody knows. He's a night vexler. Right. Okay. It is, in fact, a night vexler. I don't even know if that counts as proxying. Oh, now we get to that. Now it's time to slaughter some things that Vince loves. Let's kill another one of Vince's darlings here. Here we go. My city's army with my night venator and night is zeros. I'm glad I got Nash caught in with these two, David, because, oh God, did we ruin these two? The night venator is bad now. He has 175 points. How do you feel about that compared to the other night now? This guy compared to that guy. Because let me tell you what, I'm taking the other guy. Five wounds, three up save. His shooting attack is like, whatever. He makes six attacks on three, three snag one, one damage. I love that there's zero difference now between his bow and a bird. And once for battle, his starbuster arrow went from super cool to bad because now instead you pick an enemy unit and roll a die. On a three up, it's D three mortals. If it's a hero or a monster, it's D six. It doesn't even do the same job it used to, which was pull all out defense. Right. And this guy's how much? 170? 175. 175. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, this guy is bad now and it's a shame. Night is zeros. This guy is only bad. He's even like, night is zeros is even worse to me. Okay. This is one where like, man, boy, how far we've fallen. Like we've fallen so far. Cause remember back to the night of zeros was like, the thing back where like war or brotherhood where it would like, he would like, this is a back in like one point where he'd pick a point and like bring down units like into combat and he was so broken. And then he was like, yeah, it was just like, just so awesome. He was just like so awesomely good. Right. And like he broke the game. It was a whole thing. Then he went into 2.0. He was like really good, but not game breaking. Boy. Okay. Let me talk about the night is zeros here. All right. Because part of the problem that we all run into with this guy is anchor bias. Okay. We look at his old ability versus his new ability and his new one is so much objectively worse than the old one that no matter how good this ability was, we cannot look at this thing in a vacuum. Okay. That ability, that once per turn ability is not worth 140 points or whatever they're asking for. He's 120. Yeah, it's still not worth that. I understand. Okay. Like maybe at 90. He's not 90. He's better. He's still a very fast flying hero with a five wins and three upsave, right? 100. This guy is a built-in plus one to hit. Now again, let's forget the old night is zeros for a moment. Okay. Forget the old bubble of re-rolling wins. Okay. Okay. Hits. It's plus one to hit rolls for free that you can just pick a target unit and say everybody in the following phase is plus one to hit. Yeah. Okay. So even if you get roared, you can still, you're still getting the plus one, right? It can stack very easily with all out attack. Like plus one to hit is good. Let's not lose sight of that. Okay. But it's not 120 points good. And my actual, like I missed the open the lantern to do mortal wounds. That's actually the thing I miss. Right. Right. Right. Now the melee profile on this person got a lot better because they got the full on storm cast combat profile. Right. They used to be four attacks, three, three's neg one, one damage. Now they're five attacks, three, three's neg one, two damage. Like significantly better in combat. Yep. Okay. Again, also a totem. So also as the 18 inch range for commands. Okay. The knight of zeros is definitely not as good as it used to be. All right. Yeah. My actual problem with it is the timing on the ability. Yeah. Yeah. I wish it worked. I wish it worked like earlier. At the hero phase. No, no, no. At the end of your movement phase. At the end of your movement phase. So I could apply it in shooting. Right. Right. So we could focus fire. Now it doesn't matter. We're gonna have a different way we do that. Like we got a different way to do that. Okay. That we'll get to. But all I'm saying is the reason people are so sour on this guy is it's, look, there is an anchor bias here and you have it. You're hurt by what you lost. Regardless of how good this is, you can't objectively view it. And like plus one to hit is good. Okay. Is it worth 120 points? I don't know, probably not. But that's still a pretty good hero. Like it's a very fast mobile buff that doesn't require a command point. I like that he's a totem. Yeah. By the way, that scheme, all I ever think about, David is that scheme that have a time. I was years ahead of my time, David. Years ahead of my time. Oh my God. And we gave you some grief for it. And yeah, man, this is the perfect, perfect situation. Now banners are back and totems are back, right? Like now is the time. But anyways. Yep, yep. So, you know, like the night of zeros is interesting. And Andrew, I don't think that's fair. Like the dragons are awesome and they are under pointed. But we've talked about a lot of stuff in here that's valuable, a lot. This army isn't just dragons. Like that's just such a shallow read on a pretty deep book with different play styles. And that's not insulting you. Not at all. Like there's a lot of tech here. The key is there's a lot of tech here. Yes. Like there's a lot of redeploy, there's a lot of like reset up stuff. And yeah. And we're still getting to some of the best stuff. Here's what I'll say. I wouldn't be surprised if you still sometimes see night of zeros as in lists. He's still a flying hero. He could be in Tempest. He can still, because it's at the end of the charge phase he can get deep in there and give that plus one to hit to anybody he wants. And if you're using other, like I could see him being in sort of the Paladin builds or something where he's another way for them to get plus one to hit. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe. Okay. Maybe. The advantage of him is that it's a target enemy unit. It's not. So imagine a world where you're actually running two of these guys for power pair purposes because the key is, is that it stacks with all people attacking and you're going to get that bonus to hit. And you'll also have, now I'm thinking about it, and you can stacks with all attack. So the net, like this could actually swing just the net math pretty significantly. That's what I'm saying. Like he's another interesting way and a pretty cheap frame to counter out minus one to hit. He's certainly a heck of a lot cheaper than the night of the Lord on top. Well, so I'm thinking about it from a night haunt standpoint and I'm running Spirit Torments, two of them at like 115 or 120, like right in the same spot with basically the exact same purpose. Right. Now mine is giving re-rolls and I have a little bit of model regen but I have worse damage than what this got. Well, no, I mean, you do have an egg too red on those guys. Yeah, I don't know. He has much higher mobility. Like maybe, maybe, maybe he has a spot in some built. That's what I'll say. I like just when I heard the outcry of this, it read as anchor pricing so hard to me, right? It was an anchor bias coming out. Like I just so strong because he definitely got worse. No disagreement, absolutely true. Like old ability was better. Yes, a thousand percent. Okay. And I missed the mortal wound explosion on the lantern. I thought it was the coolest thing that he could just like shine the bright light and burn away chaos. So this is one of those things that again, we stripped back a little too much off of this guy. All right, night arcaneum, bad, new unit, bad. I want to keep pointing this out. And I'm the reason I keep hammering this is because this narrative of like all the new units are super good and everything old is super bad. No, yeah, there's some new units that are super bad. My question, what's this guy's price again? The night arcaneum is 135. It is for a single cast wizard that's really the only ability they have is in very average spell. Yeah, it's like I like what their ability does. I just wish that it was larger. Sure, then it might be interesting. But in fact, what we're going to be taking is the knight and cantor because I'm about to give you this thing. Because that's the one we're actually taking. Sure, sure. The knight and cantor still remains the wizard. So knight and cantor, five wings, three ups, save. Perfectly average melee profile. The knight and cantor still has the dispel scroll. So fantastic. And still has a good, like a good spell in spirit storm with an 18 inch range of neg one to run and charge. I love neg one to run and charge. Neg one to charge is such a potently powerful ability. It can skew the game in your favorite incredible ways. Haiti says they took away the spirit flasks. Like these are the things I don't miss. No, I don't miss the spirit flasks at all. Not even a little. I hated rules like that. I would have cut that immediately. Like those kinds of things are things people forget. New players can never get in their head. They're confusing in how they worked. The number of times I've had to explain to people how their own spirit flasks work in applying the mortal wounds. Right? These are the kind of rules that just shouldn't be there. Like I'm not trying to beat you up, Hades. I understand, like it's a loss. But again, that's just like, I really think there's like an anchor thing of there of like, oh something, I lost something. So I feel that really painfully, right? The knight and cantor does everything I want to do. Good spell, good ability in the scroll, 125 points. Yeah. I think it's that 125 point cost that really gets it though. I mean, that's really where, you know. That's where she should be. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think she's effectively pointed for what she does. And man, that auto unbind is just so valuable. Right. So, yeah, like ultimately, like, and I get it. I get that the old thing was fun because you could blow up a bunch of flasks and stuff. But it was just them trying to write rules for every little bojangle on the model. It just didn't need to be there. It should have never been there to begin with. Okay. Cool. Knight Zephyros. Skip. I love him. It's a cool looking model. I love her. Yeah. No, I like what she does. Okay. To defend it for me, go. She has the teleport. She has the teleport. So her points are 120. It's 120. 120. So you're telling me that I have a model. So let me say it this way. Do you like the gun hauler? I do. I do like the gun hauler, Tom. It's 150. What if the... It's gonna be your point of comparison. It is 155. Yeah, yeah, sure. Thank you. What if the gun hauler could also always teleport out of combat, even against fliers. Sure, yeah. To go snake objectives. Sure. Okay. And she can, if you need, she can run and still shoot. Sure. So she could have that 12 inch move. Her shooting is only marginally better than the gun hauler. Or marginally worse than the gun hauler. The gun hauler does admittedly, hilariously, often whiff in how it shoots. But sometimes it can also spike the damage. I mean, it does a damage two shot. Yes, it is, it is. But my point is that, like, this is one of those units you can just pick up and redeploy. Advantage is you have an easy redeploy on a tiny base. Or easy redeploy on a tiny base that you can put command abilities wherever you need in the hero phase. Like, let's say that you need to issue commands somewhere on the board, she can just be there. Yeah. Like, it is a really big deal. Like, yes, her, I really wish that she was too damaged. Like, if she was too damaged, we'd be, like, I think that she would be in most lists. At one damage, it makes it a little bit more, like, she's more of a tech piece and not a combat piece. That's fair. Yeah, she feels a little too expensive, but I like your defense there. That is interesting. She has on such a tiny base, her redeploy is highly threatening. Right, because it becomes almost impossible to zone her out. So she can bounce. She, okay. I like that she makes people play weird. Right. But, like, you know, but that's all, that's valuable. That is an interesting, like, I like your point, Tom, I like it. And when she lands, she still gets three pistol shots. Sure. She sees herself with a pistol smoke. Yeah, I got it. Yeah, like, they're still like, you know, they're okay. Like, one might land, you know? But, but, but, but it's not just a redeploy. Like, it's just a, it's not just a redeploy with no function. Like, she's actually gonna put some damage somewhere on the battlefield and possibly charge it. Put your arms like I do, Tom. It's 1230, dude. I get it. Continue. Do spirit fingers the whole time. Spirit fingers the whole time. Get into the interpretive dance, Tom. It's fine. No. Knight Heraldor, you will never take this guy because he lost his run in charge or retreat in charge, unless, you ready? There's a reason. There's more wounds everywhere. Yeah. The reason you take this guy is because you took the Predators domain grand strategy where you control more, more terrain than your enemy. And like one or two of these guys in your list will make sure you auto-complete that grand strategy because your opponent knows if they get near terrain to claim it, you'll just be like, blah, and just more wound right off of there. Right? So you just auto-complete that grand strategy. So there you go. Causum of my entire feeling about how a lot of the rules went away. Like this was one where they took a rule away that just didn't understand why it needed to go away because it was theme-y. It didn't break the game. It was like, yeah, you're blowing a horn so you charge better, right? And it's like literally every fantasy thing you've ever seen in your life tells you that, right? Yep. But I don't know that he's used this. And it's the points cause. 105 points is pretty affordable. And if you're playing on tables with decent sized terrain, you're going to hit stuff. And you're talking about a splash damage build. I think he goes into a splash damage build. Yeah, I think if I was in the splash damage build, I'd have him in there because it is on a 2 plus for D3 mortals for everybody within three inches of the terrain. It's a feature wholly within 18 of him. Sure, sure. And that's not. He can run and do that. Yeah, yeah, I know. It's not actually a shooting attack. I know. And he can drop from the heavens, right? He drops from the heavens and you can pretty much guarantee you'll get something within range. Yeah. Again, I do agree. In the mortal wound build, he could have a home. I also agree with you that he should have just it could have just been like once per battle, you can run in charge when he does a special attack. And now all dragons just get that anyways with the celestial mount trait. Well, one does, but sure, not all of them. But yes, I agree. The forward to victory or whatever it is. Or he could issue one of the commands for free or something like that. There were things they could have done that still would have been on theme. It just feels like they didn't put in the work on this guy. But he is cheap. And Samorgan said, as a Seraphon player, exploding terrain is super strong. It's true. Like it's what the what this guy does is effectively what the Seraphon realm shaper engine does to a point. Like close enough, at least. And you know, I think the mortal wound thing is still strong. It depends a lot on the terrain on the tables. That's part of the problem, right? That's very much out of your control. But in a mortal wound spammy build, again, I would take predator's domain and just be like, I'm definitely owning this grand strategy. Nobody's going to touch it. They're going to try their best to stay away from terrain. And that's a big win. So whatever. He's cheap. Cheap is good. Oh, Night Quest or? Skip. Yeah, skip. Like, again, nope, still didn't get there. He has the new profile. He's still bad. 120 points. That's what he is. OK, vindictors. Now we're to the units. Here we go. I'm going to actually timestamp the freaking, the actual regular units because it's so insane that it took us this long to get here. Fortunately, we've done, with doing the heroes, we've done more than half the book. So there you go. I'll bet we have. OK, vindictors. We saw them. They're good. They're fantastic. They're 130 points now. They're redeemers. They make 11 attacks as a group. They are bravery eight if their standard bearer is present. And their attacks are on sixes. They have two inch reach. What about these guys is bad? Nothing. They're fantastic battle line. They're fantastic. They're the stick with which all the other battle lines are judged and most other battle line fall short. Yeah, we're going to be judging against them with the other redeemer units. Yes, because they are the measuring stick. That I agree with. Vanquishers. OK, so this is the other new redeemer unit, right? So these guys have a sword. They add one to the attacks. If there are five or more models in the unit they're attacking, they add two to the attacks. If there are 10 or more models, they did set the target low, which I appreciate. Base two attacks, three, three's neg one, one damage. No mortal wound capability, though. Bet they do get up to four attacks. They have a four up base save. Pass. Complete pass. How much does it for 10 of them? OK, vanquishers are, they are still battle line. They're 125. They're five points cheaper than vindictors. So they're 125 for five. 125 for five, yes, correct. As opposed to 130 for five. And if you have 10, you can have a standard bear and a musician. Yes, correct. And they do have an interesting ability that's worth mentioning that one in every 10 models is going to be a vanquisher. Herald, if they receive the rally command, they come back on a five plus instead of a six, which is an interesting ability. Which is why I was trying to think about them in mass. The problem is they don't have a two inch reach. So when you have 10 of them, they're very hard to use effectively. And they have no mortal wound capability. So with only rend one, even with a lot of spammy attacks, they're just going to be hard pressed. They're great for chopping through low armor stuff. Yeah, like hordes. They're a good hordes here. They're literally luminous blade lords, but stormcast. Yeah, but the way those rules should have been written, probably, that's yes. Probably, yeah. But both are hard to justify. The blade lords have their guard ability. But yeah, I mean, that's like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, to me, they're not passed on the test. They're not passed in the muster. Like at only five point savings. Literators. Liberators. OK, 115 now are original Redeemer unit, right? Their weapons are just now weapons. If you have hammer and shield, it's two attacks, three, fours, and egg one. So they did get rend. If you pair the hammers, you go up to three attacks, three, fours, and egg one. And then the grand weapon guy, which only one in five gets now, the prime doesn't get the grand weapon for free as well. It still has to respect the other things. Like at one model, this unit can be a liberator, prime at one of the attacks characteristic of that model's heavens wrought weapons paired heavens wrought weapons or grand weapon and all models. No, you can still have a prime with a grand hammer. You can, but you can't get two models then. It's either him with the great. You can't like it's not him and another guy with a grand hammer. He doesn't have it as like a weapon option is my point. Yes, you can get it to him. No, in the champion, like text, it says he can take a grand weapon. You're missing my point. You can't have two of them for five. Why, you never could have liberators on thing. OK, that's fine. So yes, he can still have the big, the big hammer. So fine. I wasn't saying he can't take it. He can take it. He's just not. It's not him for free. Yeah, I don't know that that's true, but OK, that's fine. Yeah. Thank you. OK, it was only sequiturs they could take to. Gotcha. All right. So these guys are 115. At the end of the combat phase, you can pick one unit that is within an inch of them and six inches of an objective on a four plus D three mortals. So it's more of the it's more of the like you hit them, you take D three mortals at the end of the combat. If they're alive, they push and do D three mortals. And if you've got at least half of the unit having shields, they're plus one to save. So here's my question at 115. Do they stack up to vindictors? No, no, I think it's completely up to if like your points in your list. I think if you can't fit a unit of vindictors, then you then that's when you take a unit of liberators. But I don't think you ever take them over vindictors. Yeah, I think that the points differential between the two isn't big enough to justify the savings, right? They clearly don't have the same capabilities. If these were 100, then I would consider it that 25 points. But at this, like, it's just worse for the defenses. And the other one in the offenses are better on the other one also. Is your numbers are better or your attacks are better? Yeah, it's just. Yeah, they're an interesting unit. I don't know. I'm not going to say they're straight up bad. OK, because I don't think that's the case. Sure, sure. Like, built-in plus one to save is good. You know, more little mortar wound potential is fine. Like, they're OK. All right, they're OK. But I feel like in the vindictor match, they still need to be a few more points cheaper than this. But I know there are some people who really stand these. I mean, I was talking in a chat earlier, and there's some people really standing libs because of the lower points cost, right? Like, the fact that when you multiply that out, it does actually add up to quite a bit. And I think there could be something to that. I haven't played with the list enough to really feel the difference. And I feel like I would need to play this and see the mortal wounds before and after combat and is that stuff adding up? Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I'm really torn on these guys. I know I'd like them a lot better at even 110, which sounds so small. But like, even that little bit that multiplied out, just feels more like more of a thing is happening if I'm taking them out in my Redeemer bill. OK, but now let's get to the one that I think is really the interesting discussion. Seki tours, 145. That's what we're looking at for sequiturs. Also, battle line. Also, five of them for 145. Obviously, two of these guys can still take the big great base. Um, now if you with one of them, you have to not take the great mace to take the little redemption cash if you want it. So like, depending on how many you have, you've got to have at least one redemption cash. So you've got to sacrifice a great mace for the redemption cash. Um, at the start of combat, they can either tilt shields or weapons, which is, you know, still really, which is way better now in 3.0 because you can't get always strikes first out of it, right? You'll always get to activate this. So if you tilt weapons, then you double tap on sixes. If you tilt shields, they gain a ward save of five up. And they have the redemption cash, which is slain models cannot be returned to enemy units. They're within three inches of this unit's equator prime. And the whole unit has rent. The regular weapons are rent. Two attacks, three threes, neg one, one damage. The great maces are two attacks, three threes, neg one, two damage. Here's what I'll say. I really like sequiturs. Yes, they're on a four up save, but that five being able to tilt shields into a five up ward. Now, again, it's only in the combat phase, but I like these guys a lot. I don't know if they're pointed exactly correctly. Maybe they should be a tippy tad cheaper. You said they're what? 145. Yeah, I can't do it at 145. That's, that's where I'm at as well. I think they just don't stack up favorably with the vindictors again. Like I think at 15 points cheaper. It's a hard time justifying it. I think the actually that the redemption cash is really, really interesting. I think I think you definitely take one because I think that can be, it can be really big against certain, against certain opponents. Because it's just a new tech piece. Yeah, right, sure. I guess I'm just getting really excited about a new tech piece. It's a cool, it's a cool tech piece though. And Dancer Day Fair, no, they don't have the Lord Arcane of Tax. These are just battle lines, just straight up battle lines all the time. These are all battle line choices we're discussing. All Redeemer battle lines, right? So these are direct comparisons against each other. No tax, no other units required, boom. The other thing that I think is important is that that ward only applies in combat. So it doesn't help them in the way against like ranged mortal wounds or anything like that. Sure, cool. I think that, what's that? Smells, yeah. Right, so a lot of the main, a lot of the big culprits of mortal wounds aren't getting, aren't getting like stopped by this disability. I think they're doing it. Go ahead. I'd say it's not the mortal wound shield of Cast Warriors. Like that's not what this is. No. Yeah, but I mean the mortal wound shield of the Chaos Warriors is like, it's only mortal wounds, it's not a ward. So there's some give and take there. Like in the combat phase, in the combat phase, this is way more powerful than the Chaos Warrior shield. Like insanely better, okay. Yeah, because it's gonna be all damage that they take. That's correct. Here's my argument. Ready? Here's what I'm gonna say. These guys should be the same cost as vindictors or pretty darn close. Maybe one should be one. Yeah. Okay. I could believe 135. Andrew said, I came in at the start of the unit discussion to certain storm hosts favor a certain battle line. Yes, 100%. Absolutely. There are some that either create new battle line or absolutely favor them. Yeah, 100%. Flaming pole. No, you cannot get beat out of this anymore because of the new sequencing in the combat at section seven, I think. Right. Or six, I don't remember, whatever. No, all start of combat abilities for both players happen in order. Then the fight of start, then the fight at the start happens, then normal, then end of fight, or fight last, then end of combat abilities. There is an exact step to them now. So you can never get cheap house out of this. To me, seconders need to be 135. That's my number. They should be just slightly more expensive. Yeah. Yeah, I don't hate these guys. I mean, I think they have some play for sure. They just need, they just don't, again, stacking up the vindictors, they just don't quite make it. Yeah, agree. Right now in the great battle line redeemer battle, I think vindictors do come out on top. Here's a case where the new guys do come out on top, but it should be noted that the older models are only losing here slightly on points. And that's it. Right? So there's interest here. Okay. Judicators. Judicators got real interesting now. Obviously these guys are just cars. They can be double tapped in your, with the command ability. Skybolt bow. Let's just, I'm just gonna cover this quickly. You're never gonna take the shock bolt bow. Never. The champion never takes it. It's stupid to take it. It does not make any sense. It's bad. Okay. So just forget that exists. You have five guys and the champion gets plus one attack with this, with his Skybolt bow. That's what happens. This unit makes 11 shots. And here's the simplest way I'm gonna describe these. These are snake bows now. They're snake bows. They're the bow shooters from dock. Okay. That's it. Because there are 24 inch range, two attacks each, three, three's, neg one, rend one damage and sixes to hit go straight to mortal wounds. That's what they do. Now, the difference that is relevant is two things between them and snake bows. They're more expensive. These guys are 200 points for five of them. Snake bows are under-costed anyways. They should be more expensive. Snake bows are way too cheap right now. Okay. No, you never take the shock bolt bow, Brian, because the shock bolt bow doesn't get the mortal wounds. Okay. This celestial blast is only for Skybolt bows. So that's it. Your average on D6 is three. The number of attacks that the champion makes with his advanced on a Skybolt bow is three. These are the same number, except that this one does mortal wounds. This one does not. Hence, this one is worse. It's a very simple math. Okay. So at any rate, they're snake bows and they're straight battle line. Straight battle line. Yep. These guys are good. Yeah, they're good. They turned out a lot better. I think, yeah, they're solid. Okay. Nothing else to say about them. I mean, they're good quality shooting. Judicators have always been fairly decent. I mean, they went through a prior period. They weren't less good, but I don't know. And you can take these guys that needed a 15 because they're straight battle line all the time. So they can go up to 15, no matter what you're billed. If you take the double tap command ability, it's 31 shots. 31 shots in the hero phase or 31 shots total. Sorry. That's what I'm trying to get at. 31 shots in the hero phase. You get it. My brain can't do math. Yes, they're real good. I mean, right? Am I missing anything here? Last time I checked snake bows are real good, right? Yes, they can shoot in the hero phase once per game with the command ability. It's not every round, but it's good. To be fair, snake bows don't usually shoot in the hero phase every round either because Marathi dies in like at the top of three. So yeah, you know, there you go. Yep. Judicators with Boltstorm crossbows. Oh, by the way, I saw somebody say I already built mine with the shock bolt bow. No, you didn't, because nobody knows what the heck a shock bolt bow is. You just go, they're all sky bolt bows, man. Don't worry about like little modeling things like that. Who cares? Who cares? They're all sky bolt bows. The champion's bow just looks cooler. He gets the cool looking bow because he's the champion. They gave him the nice one. Judicators with Boltstorm crossbows. All right, here's how Boltstorm crap works. If it hits, it hits twice. That's it. Okay? That's all. Not if it hits on a six. If it hits, it's two hits. Period. So this unit of five guys, right, makes 11 attacks and every hit on a three up becomes two hits. That's it. Yeah, sky bolt bows are better. Way better. So better. Eight, six and shorter range. This spammy no-rends thing, it just doesn't work here. It just doesn't work. Okay, like the Judicators are way better. Yep. Castigators. Nope. Ah. You wanna defend the Castigators? Yeah, so they're like three for 95 now, is that right? Oh, God, you're gonna make me find these guys. Where are they in the list? No, I think they're more than that. 105, I think. Where are they? There you go. 105, correct, thank you. Okay. And they have no status of anything. They are just an other unit. So, no, they're just a cars, which means that they trigger. I understand, they're not battle line or anything. Correct. So you're getting 3D, like out of a unit, you're gonna get 3D, three shots, plus one, right? So on average, you're gonna get seven shots out of this unit. Okay. Had to make two rents. Sure. And sixes are gonna double tap against malignets and demons, which aren't gonna normally matter for most, most intensive purposes. Okay. So seven shots at neg two rent at 18 inches. That's not bad. Okay. For 105 points. Like, think about the comparatively to the other shooting units in the game. And especially in this army. And it's technically three models. So like, I could see deep striking, like these out just outside of an objective. And they're gonna come down, let's say that you've drawn, you've put like crap on an objective, right? Just like a five junk units, five models that are junk, is a junk unit or 10, like a 10 man Arco unit or whatever. Okay. When these guys come down, they're gonna come down and do some damage. I don't know how much, but they're gonna do some. Okay. And then you can move in and do it again next turn. Like, so, so often you have stuff like, like you come down and you're like, I'm gonna come down with a unit of liberators to threaten this objective. Sure. They do nothing unless you make a nine inch charge. Sure, agreed. These guys actually come down, do something. They're gonna put a couple of wounds on because that, I mean, they are. Yeah, it's neg two rent, sure. Right. And they're gonna do more wounds next turn as they move on to the objective. Okay. All right. And they're only 105. I like them. I like them in an MSU three man units. All right. So, I think- Maybe my initial take on them was wrong. I'll have to think about that. I gotta think about the math. So maybe potential incastigators, okay. So like, think about this. For 210, you get 14 neg two rent shots. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And they can both come down to the same target. How many points are our judicators? 200. So it's about the same comparison. Yeah. But you get the neg two rent shot. Instead of neg ones. That's actually pretty good. And it could spike higher. Well, but the others have mortal wounds where you're not gonna get mortals on this, but it's all neg two rent. Okay. And if it's against malignments or demons, you could double tap. Sure. So like, I don't hate them. Yeah. So just something to think about. It's interesting. It's interesting. All right. Maybe my initial read was wrong. I think, I think you might have turned me around a little there, Tom. Yeah. Castigators. All right. I gotta think as I'm trying to build out a couple lists, you know, to like see, like build the various lists. It's gonna be interesting as part of a shooting thing. Yeah. It's an interesting tech piece. Like it's not. Mr. Gang says evocators can pair with them. They can empower them. I'll have to look at that. I didn't think about that. The plus one is a wound. There you go. Yeah. Cause then his point was, if you, if you, if evocators empower them, his point was you'd be on twos and twos. Yeah. Which does change a lot. It's interesting. It does change a lot. Okay. Cool. You may have turned me around on castigators. All right. Okay. Cool. So it's not your primary tactic, but I think that there are some. It's a nice little sidestrat. Yeah. No, it's not bad. Yeah. Okay. All right. Vigilors. So this is our new shooting unit, our kind of mixed shooting and melee unit, right? And these guys, you're taking them for one reason. There's six inch move there a little faster. Four up, save, fine, whatever. Two shots out of the storm collar bow, 18 inch range, three, three snag, one, one damage. So their base profile is, you know, a shorter range judigator, right? And excuse me, their ability is navigators of the storm. In the shooting phase, if any wounds caused by attacks made with this unit storm collar bows are allocated to an enemy unit, add one to the hit rolls for attacks that target that unit until the end of that turn. The same unit cannot be affected by this ability more than once per turn. I like these guys quite a bit. They do go battle line if they are, if they're with the night judicator as the general, they are five for 195 points. The fact that you can even split the shots and just try to ping two units, like take six shots on one and five shots on another. And your plus one to hit with any other shooting or melee, right? Until the, for the rest of the turn against those units. It's pretty good. Like they can mark or light people, right? Yeah, you know, like to pair with castigators. Sure, sure. Yeah, yeah. Sure, they mark them up and then drop the castigators and shoot. And then the castigators are, they use their neg two rend instead of using the plus one to hit. Now, good point. These guys are real interesting in cities units because that plus one is not faction locked at all. Oh, cool. Right? Plus one to hit roles for target them. They're pretty cool models too. Yeah, yeah. They're absolutely super cool models. So like they have a sweet marker light that lasts the whole turn. They can hit one or two units, light them up, it's not faction locked again. So they could be anywhere where they're an ally or a coalition unit. They can get in there and be giving their army that is plus one to hit. What's that? What are their? 195. And no status, no battle line. Their battle line, if you have the night judicator as your general, the long bow guy or Mr. Morville strike. Interesting. So again, like I think a lot of, especially if you're leaning, wouldn't just be necessarily leading into a shooting list. I think these guys might end up finding a home in lists points dependent, just for the tech, right? Just for being able to pass a plus one to hit where you need it. Well, and like compare these though with like the night Zephyrus, right? Sure. Like, why wouldn't you take these? You mean with the night is zeros? Night is zeros, that's right man. Yeah, yeah, sure. And they'll actually do something other than pass one to hit. Like both of them are just functional plus one to hits, but these will actually do some damage in addition to that. And these also mark shooting. Right. And they also mark shooting, yeah. They're way more expensive though, right? Yeah, it's five for 195 compared to one for 120, sure. Yeah. Yep. So they're interesting is my answer. I don't know, like they would make my short list of units to experiment with because they could have some real value. Yeah. I do think I would probably take them in my city shooting list. Let me just say that. I think that'd be there in a heartbeat, they're showing up in Tempest Eye. Yeah. So there you go. All right, the Raptors. All right, here we go, both just to cars. We're really talking about probably long strikes. Okay, long strike crossbow, 30 inch range, two attacks, threes, twos, neg two rend, two damage. So they now have two shots each. I don't think they had two shots before, right? Am I remembering correctly? They used to be one shot, right? I think so. I don't remember. I think that's correct. Which ones? The Raptors. Yes, they were one shot. Okay. Yeah. And they still have head shots. So if the unmodified hit roll is a six, then they go to two mortal wounds and the attack sequence ends. Points, oh boy, oh boy. What are they called? Vanguard Raptors, there we go. They are 240 points now, four, three of them. Them is a lot of points. Six shots coming out of them, but boy are they expensive now. They're far past. They're a lot. Seems like a lot. The hurricane crossbows I don't buy at all. They make four shots each. Here's what I'll say. It's actually not as bad as you would think. If you do this math, it's pretty crazy, okay? Yeah. Like these guys, if you have six of them in a unit, it's 24 shots. If you like plus one attack them, so they hit on twos, right? Sorry, it's actually 25 attacks as the prime, right? Yeah, is that right? Six times four, 24 plus one, five. Yes, that's right. With the hurricane crossbows, so they shoot 25 times. If they hit on twos, right? Yeah. Then you basically hit... It's 40 hits, I think. 21 times, yeah, something like 20, 21 times, and you generate 40 hits. Yep. Which then generate about 27 wounds. Yep, I did that exact math today, but then I realized they're like 235 points, and I just don't think that's worth it. It's a lot. These guys are so risky, both of them, right? Because there are six wounds on a four up save for a lot of points. A lot of points. I ran nine of them, nine hurricanes in my Tempestilus for a while in 2.0, and they put out a freaking herding. Like, they were brutally good. I don't know that they do the same now, especially if you can't run nine, you can only run six. Yeah. Yeah, it's, by the way, to answer a question, yes. Hades, the knight of zeros is every round. It's not once per battle. The zeros can give plus one every round. Same as the vigilars. So they're an interesting comparison. The, yeah, I mean, to me, these guys, the challenge is in the points. It's just too much. It's just too much. You've got better shooting options now. Like, not that I don't love neg two rend damage to shots with potential for mortal wounds, but given the math we just went over, Tom, with castigators. Yeah. Like, I'm on the castigator train now over these guys, right? Agreed. Yeah. That just feels so much better. I'm getting way more neg two rend shooting. Yes, I can't go through the mortal wounds unless they're like a very specific type of thing. But neg two rend is neg two rend. Neg two rend is neg two rend. Neg two rend shooting is good shooting. That's good. That's good shooting. The new chariot. You guys like it? No. Okay. It's fine. I don't think, I don't love the model, but I don't hate the rules. Yeah. I despise this model with all the fire of a thousand suns burning in my soul. But like as a piece it's actually pretty good. I don't think you'd ever take the bow. I think you would take the axe or whatever it is. I think that's the spear, whatever. You would take the melee option, whichever though, I think it's the spear, yeah. Yeah. 12 wounds is a lot of wounds on a chariot. It's 165 points and it does do, it has good ogre charge. Yeah. I mean, what I would say is this, it's a great penning piece. Yes. Yeah. Now it can't give commands to itself. Correct. So you need a hero nearby to all out defense it. But the fact is, is that like you can, like on a three up, you can set Lord Celest in it, or Lord Castle in it, sorry, for a two up, jam it into something, give it all out defense. Old Mystic Shield is obviously still an option if you want to throw it around, sure. But there's options, yep. Yep. And you buff it up and then send it in to pin something on 12 wounds with that good of a save. I mean, it can maybe hold some stuff for a bit. And if on that charge, and for 165 points, I don't mind throwing those points away. Right. Like I would throw this guy at Archeon. Sure, if he had enough bonuses, sure, he could do it. Right. He could hold out. Yeah. I can't put him in the sword because he's not a hero. Right. Right, and so like I wouldn't mind this guy grinding on Archeon for a turn or two and let Archeon have to chew through all those defenses. Sure. If he's up to like plus two, plus three to save, sure. Yeah. And then maybe like be a real jackal about it and have a Lord Archon him in the back on Griff Charger to heal him up. Sure. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I mean, there might be something here, right? Yeah, yeah. Currents that I want to run him in Tempest Eye, so it's on a two up save turn, one 15 inch move. I like that. Sure. That's nice. There you go. Like what this tells me, Vince? This is like a cheaper steam tank, Lord. Yeah, sure. Sure, it doesn't have to be a key word, which, you know, hurts, but nonetheless, yeah. Yeah. Aetherwings, boy did they get different. Okay, so 12 inch move, two wounds, no save. They fly and stuff, and they can retreat and still charge, which is hilarious to me because that would assume that somehow they didn't die in fighting whatever they were fighting, which seems highly unlikely. And they can add plus one to hit rolls for Vanguard Raptor units. So they put your Raptors on twos and twos, right? That's how you get them back to twos and twos is you have Burbs near them. Yeah. Okay. Man. Yeah. Well, they're still. Oh, and they're 65 points now. They're 65. Like, they're still a cheap unit. Sure. They're still a cheap unit. If you just need cheap bodies, they are cheap bodies, but there's a better chaff unit now by far in this army, by far, and we're gonna get there in just a second. See, I mean, Aetherwings, whatever, they're fine. It's, they are what they are. If you just need ultra cheap, right? This is the way to go, but Vanguard Hunters. So they have their shots, their little bolt storm pistol, which has rend and their little regular weapons, which have rend and they can ride the winds aetheric, baby. It's, they have to have the astral compass, but one in every five models can carry an astral compass and they still can do that. And then they can teleport every round. On the board edge, which is a difference. This is true. This is true. They do have to be within the board edge, but yes. Which I think is actually pretty big limitation, but I mean, they're better than they were. It's true. They are battle line and astral Templars, by the way. That's where these guys become battle line. I don't hate them. No. They're certainly better than they were. I still don't think that they would meet. Like honestly, I still, How much? 125. They are, yeah, 125. Like I might take these instead of the night, Zephyros. Because of the ability to move around near an edge. I mean, the go anywhere versus an edge is a big difference. It is. Oh, as has been right now. Thank you, Mr. Gank. Yes, it's also in normal moves. They can't retreat and do it, which is a big limitation. Oh yeah, that is a difference. Yeah, okay. There's a couple of little things on these guys that make me not like them as much as I should. Yeah, no, that's fair. I was just thinking like all five of these guys are gonna shoot when they set up. Yes. And so you're gonna get 10 attacks, but they are numbers for sure. Yeah. Their little bow used to be a, they used to be able to set up within seven, but their bow had a shorter range. Now their little pistols have a longer range, but they still set up at nine. So whatever, whatever. In my book, they're still not meeting the, they're still not meeting the number. No. No. Vanguard, Vanguard, Paladors. Okay, so I don't hate these guys at all now. I actually like these guys. I think people are kinda hooked on what they lost, but I actually look at what they gained, which is quite a lot by the way. They gained a lot. Now it's all mostly in the numbers. You wouldn't notice it just by looking at it. I think this is one of those places where we look at their sort of the text that's missing and are like, oh no. Okay, Paladors. 12 inch move, five wounds, four up safe. Okay. They can ride the winds of theorics. So instead of a normal mover retreat, they can set up as per the good setup. Anywhere on the board, blah, zi, blah, zi, blah. Okay. Now, they have either a bolt storm pistol and a shock handaxe or a bolt storm pistol and a star strike javelin, just like they used to. They lost their silly little, what was this thing called? They lost that silly lunar blade ability, which like, things to forget. Again, things that would have never been printed on a war scroll to begin with, had I ever been in charge of editing, that would have been cut day one. But anyways, okay. So let's talk about the differences. The bolt storm pistol itself. Old version, nine inch range, two attacks, threes, fours, no rend, one damage. New version, 12 inch range, two attacks, fours, fours. So one worse to hit, the three inches extra range, but gained a rend. The javelin is the same except it gained a damage. A star strike javelin used to be damaged one, now it's damaged two. Okay. Yep. So if you have the hand axe, which is the melee build out for them, right? The old build on the hand axe was two attacks, threes, threes, no rend, one damage. Now it's three attacks, threes, threes, neg one rend, d three damage. That is a very different melee profile, right? Like way different. And then the javelin in melee used to be one attack on fours, threes, neg one, one damage. Now it's one attack on threes, threes, neg one, two damage. So even it in melee got better, getting one hit and one more damage, right? The razor beacon claws, everybody talks about how they lost the unmodified hit roll for an attack made with their razor beacon claws is six. It would be a one mortal wound in the attack sequence and fine, okay? That's all fine. They lost that, yes. Now it's three attacks, threes, threes, neg two, one damage, basically the same profile it used to be, but it just lost the mortal wounds. But what the guy gained on top to me balances that out. Especially with the new ride, the Winds of Therak. Yeah. Like the loss of very occasional mortal wounds. Like let's chart that out, right? In the old unit, if they all attacked, you had nine attacks with the beacon claws. Meaning you average one and a half. One and a half, yeah. Let's round it up to two and said you did two mortal wounds, okay? So yes, you lost that, like no doubt. Did it need to be removed? Sure, it's just extra crap that people always forgot. Did it need to? No. Can it be and the unit's fine? Sure, if it means I got better numbers on all the rest of the stuff, the javelin up to damage too, the hand acts like ridiculously better. Ridiculously better, okay? And then the javelin ranged also going to two damage. I love these guys with javelins now. Two damage at melee, two damage at range, lot of shooting potential and the ability to just like float. I'm out, I'm in. And you talked about resetting up and actually doing something. Yeah. Okay? Yeah. And yes, mortal wounds are a big deal, but two mortal wounds aren't how you crack the nut. That just doesn't get there. And the fact that they still have some negative rend and the fact that they have so much more shooting, multi-damage shooting even, to me makes it worth it. Like a unit of three of these guys pop up, okay? And a unit of three of these dudes, right in the winds of theory, just setting up, okay? Have seven attacks with their pistol and four attacks with the javelins because the champion gets plus one to both attacks, okay? The numbers on that are just better than what they used to be. Like mathematically, these guys do way more damage. I know we lost two mortal wounds, but the math is simply a lot more damage. Like the numbers are bigger. Yep. Okay. That's just the bottom line. You actually do more damage. And the fact that you can run these guys anywhere means it's actually pretty easy to hit the soft targets that aren't protected by last stand and Mystic Shield and all out defense or whatever. Right? Yeah, look, I've had six phallodors in almost every Stormcast army I've run and I love them. I liked them when they were over-pointed and not that great. So I completely agree, like with the addition of the change to ride the winds and the two damage on the javelins, that's all day. Yeah. I'm gonna go with it. Now, and the critical part about these guys, remember these guys do go battle line in Astral Templars and they're 215 for three models. Yeah, I'm cool with it. And they are five wounds, so they count as two models, right? So unit of three is actually six for objective taking, which is nice. So like Hades, I'll run the math at some point in time on stats hammer, but you can put in their stats into AOS stats hammer. Like put in the old, I didn't delete the old app and I never will because I have it for comparing the old, that's how I was able to pull the stats. Cause now the old app is locked. So I know I always have a record of the old stats to compare against. So anyways, yeah, there you go. Like it just is more damage. When you move that many numbers around, you get to more damage. Griffhounds, yep, they bork. They have two wounds now. They're weaker. Yep. Well, that's the thing. And there's, you get six of them for 110. So you do get, you do get 12 wounds for those 110 points. So that's nice. Anybody taking Griffhounds on their own? I think your chat, your chat is up next. Yeah, correct. Nope. Prosecutors, whoop, whoop. Oh yeah, bring it in baby. Cause the Angelos are here to rock. So prosecutors with celestial hammers, still a pass from me. Let's talk about the good ones. Prosecutors with storm called javelins. Here we go baby. Here's where it's at. Okay. Prosecutors with javelins. Where are we at here? I need to find them on my list. There we go. They are 115 points for three. Why do I love these guys? One, they move to a three up save. Love it. The fact that the javelin boys move to a three up save is great. Two. Okay. Like they still have basically the same profile. 18 inch range, blah, blah, blah. They throw javelins. These three is neg one rent one or two damage. Fantastic. Okay. Dispersed formation, which is there as a user experience convenience thing, but it's actually awesome. If this unit has two to five models is coherent, if each model, the unit is within three inches horizontally of at least one other model in the unit instead of one inch. And then if it's more than five models, it's two inches. What this means is- So they screen better. Three of these guys can cover 10 inches of horizontal board space. Yeah. Okay, because they're 40 millipses. In addition, they still have heralds of righteousness, which you can attempt to charge with this unit if it's within 18 inches of an enemy unit instead of 12, roll 3d6 instead of 2d6 when making a charge roll. Meaning these guys are perfect chaff, perfect units to absorb an unleash hell. Yep. Yes, they're more than fell bats, but they might actually get into the unit, absorb the unleash hell and live and stick around because they're on a three up base safe. Yep. Like I'm all about these guys. The fact that you can spread them out so thin that they can block up so much of your line, right? And then they can just jump over enemy chaff to charge the shooting unit that they're trying to screen and absorb the unleash. So you can bring in your paladins or your whatever. I love this. Yeah, they're great. I think they're, yeah, they're a good pick. Yeah, and 115, like I'm in. I'm in like Flynn on these guys. Yep. Am I missing anything here, Tom? No. Yeah, they're awesome. I don't think, they're not terrible. No, they're a great chaff slash utility piece. It's something Stormcast never really had and in the new edition, they do this roll so well. So well. Yeah, they do. They do. All right, annihilators. We already know the existing annihilators with their two up save, three wounds, they come down, they do damage, blah, blah, blah. The important part of your reviews and annihilators of Meteoric Grand Hammers, they go up to a three up saves. They lose a pip because they don't have their big shields, but their base profile is three attacks, threes, twos, neg two, three damage. Holy crackalaka, that's some damage. Yeah. Downside, they are battle line and Knights Excelsior. They are paladins. So they can get like the plus one to hit and wound and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And all that stuff. Three of them with their Meteoric Grand Hammers is 240 points. I mean, I like them. What's that? I like them. Yeah. Yeah, boy, I mean, they're like, you wanna talk about the unit you're gonna drop at seven inches with the Lord Imperaton, right? I mean, this is it. Right, these guys are getting in and doing some work. Yeah. Yeah. Hades, why are javelins better than hammers? Javelins have a base three up save. It's that easy. And their shooting attack is just, it's actually better. Yeah, that's simple. Okay. Yeah, these dudes wreck what they hit, but gosh, are they expensive? So you need to use them carefully, right? I mean, they're a glassy hammer. They're not like super made of glass. They are still on a three up save. That's good, but they are only also nine wounds, right? So you gotta use them carefully. Three more wounds than raptors, I guess. That's something. So there we go. All right, let's get into the Paladin stuff. We're almost done, guys, don't worry. We're getting there, I promise. I can tell you're both fainting, but don't worry. Charge up, smack yourself in the face. I mean, we are at four hours, continue. Protectors, hey, welcome back, Tom. Thanks. Protectors. Where was I? I love, exactly. I love that we didn't use the actual picture for protector. We just grabbed a dude with a star soul mace. Like that's not their weapon. I just scrolled by him, cause I was like, that's not a protector. And I like, wouldn't go find the actual protector. And I was, oh, wait, no, that's that. They just used the random. Yeah. Star soul mace, all right. Yes. Same thing for later on decimators. It's very weird, the picture they checked. I know, the pictures of the Paladins are weird. All right, important part about all the Paladins. They moved to a three up save. Thank God. If it isn't about time, okay? That's number one. Number two, these guys are all battle line in Knights Excelsior, okay? Now, protectors are five for 225. Base three up save, they get plus one to save if at least half the unit are armed with storm strike glaives, which makes them actually pretty tough. Five attacks on threes, threes, neg two, one damage. Yes, it's only one damage, but it is built in two rend and two in every five can still have star soul maces, which still swing a bunch of mortal wounds, okay? Retributors, oh, go ahead. No, I kind of like honestly foregoing the star soul maces and just going five with five glaives and going to 25 neg two in attacks. I could see it. I could see it. But a three inch reach. It's, yeah, it's, they do have a big old three inch reach. Like that is pretty good. They're one that can fight in 10, no problem, right? Because they can just reach over the top. Retributors, I mean, what you're taking here is you're taking the fact that they, they're only three attacks, but your face damage becomes two. And if the unmodified for a hit roll of six, it's two mortal wounds and it stops, right? There are your egg crackers, right? That's what they do. They crack the shell. The retributors, by the way, are five for 235. So they're more at 10 points more expensive. Pray tours, we don't need to discuss. They just kind of snuck in here. They're not actually paladins, but they put them in the paladin section. They're your protector unit. They're still fine. They're good for keeping your heroes alive. The decimator picture, yes, is hilarious. They're my least favorite. They're five attacks, three, three is neg two, one. But they have the add two to the attacks characteristic if the number of models in the target unit is greater than the number of models in this unit. Yeah, it's cool to go to seven attacks a piece, but to me they're kind of trying to play a little bit of both. They're not quite tough enough. They probably don't hit quite hard enough. I don't know. I'm not sure what to think. I'm not sure what to think about decimators, but decimators are five for 215. They are the cheapest choice. And GW doesn't know what to think of them either because they put a dancing storm cast as their picture. So yes, that's ridiculous pose. Because it's the champion that has his axe up in the air like this. But you can't even see the weapon. No, I know. It's hilarious. It's so funny to me what they choose to run outside of the box and what they don't. You know, like this guy over here is way, the prey door is like way outside of his box and his weapon's here. But this guy, nope. I think the palette is interesting now because we moved to the all important three up save. There's still a four inch move, which is unfortunate. I think for my money, I like protectors. I think you could, I think protectors could be useful in tens. Retributors could be interesting in fives. Like they could have play. Yep. OK. Stormdrake Guard. Oh, the big dragons that are too cheap. Two of them you get for 285. An important part, they are a battle line if you've got a Drakeoth or sorry, a Star Drake or the Nitroconus general. Important part to understand about these guys is that they're too cheap right now. I have a lot to say. They gobbled up all the extra abilities that were taken away from the rest of the Stormcast line. Yeah, they do have the dispersed formation. Their weapons are like, OK, let's be real. These guys aren't big damage dealers. Like an army of all these dudes aren't really going to super pass a DPS check army. OK, like I know we're all hot on the dragons, but they are all monsters and there are a lot of bonus victory points to potential for your army. And like their damage is at best OK. Their main weapon you're probably taking is the Warblade. They're six attacks on three's, three's, neg one, one damage. They're real good, but that's not a great profile. And then their dragon is four attacks, three's, three's, neg two, two damage. Like I do need you to just reality check us here. OK, like everybody is acting like these are the second coming of the Messiah. And it's like, yes, they do a lot. I agree. And yes, they're too cheap because when compared against everything else, right, I mean, Mr. Gank, so on average, just 10 damage to a three plus save, why are they too cheap? Because when you compared everything else, they screw up the math of the rest of the book. They're breaking the curve is the answer, right? When you compare like this is 18 wounds on a three up save in a unit for 285 that can fly, that can move in the hero phase once per game and then charge in the hero phase once per game, right? So they can get around on Lee Shell. They do still have the mortal wound breath. They still have the four up spell ignore, right? Like they're still just doing a lot. They do have the dispersed formation as well. I'm not saying they should be crazy more expensive, but they should be more expensive, like probably 300 305 is the right number for two of them. I mean, they're 18 wounds, folks. It's a lot, like it's a lot of wounds. If you compare them to other similar sort of monstrous things, you're just getting a lot for the points comparatively, right? Their damage is again, it's okay. Like that's not, that's going to be the problem. Everybody's like, oh, just run an all dragon army. It's like, well, then you're going to fight Megas and just get peeled because you won't pass that DPS check. You'll fight Savage Orcs or something and not pass that DPS check. It just won't get there, right? No one's run Savage Orcs in 3.0. Well, it's a different story. But yes, there are other DPS check armies, right? Yeah. And you are at a big risk for a lot of victory points given up. Like these are every, if you lose a dragon, you just gave up a victory point out of the unit. Yep. Right? Like we, you know, I think the play of like, oh, run all dragons. I mean, I'm going to run all dragons because that's what I'm going to play. But I don't think it's a good army. I really don't. I don't think it's the right build. Right. Like I just don't think you're going to get there. What are you running there? Like a nine model army? Yeah. Yeah, everybody counts to five for objectives. Like that's cool. But your ultimate damage capability is pretty minimal, really. You can spike, you can spike those, you spike the shots. The shots can do some serious damage. If you get lucky on the breaths and roll hot, you'll do some great damage. If you roll a 5-6 and then roll a 5-6, hey, that's all you got to do. But sometimes you're going to roll a 5-6. Like, how much do you love seeing a D-6 damage on something? Yeah. Yeah, I know. Right? We all love a D-6 damage, right? It's always good. It never rolls ones or twos for us. Yeah. OK. Like again, let's just not overplay this. When we see D-6 damage up in a monster chart for its damage, we're like, that's garbage. It's garbage. Derphew goes from 6 to D-6. He's garbage now. He's total garbage. Yeah. Right? But we're like, oh, a 33% chance that I get to do a D-6 mortals? And I'll look out. Now it's like, now I shall kill everything. It's the same people who are crying about, like, Teclas's spell that did all the big burst damage or whatever, that like, the roll, it's the exact same check, right? The 1-2 does like nothing. Well, it does like, we know what I mean. So it's like, yeah, it's the same thing. I mean, he's, like I said, he's good. They're good. And they're probably slightly under-pointed. But they are not break the internet good like everyone thinks. It's just like, I just don't buy it. Now, hey, if all Drake armies end up ruling tables and 5-0ing, then, hey, I'm wrong, OK? But I just like, I'm looking at these numbers. I don't see it. I don't see it, right? They're good. They're just not the greatest thing since sliced bread. They're slightly under-costed. And they should go up 20 points. I think they're, I think, I think the play is, as with most things in life, moderation is key, right? So not going all dragon, right? It's probably, they're like good in a mixed arms force. That's probably where they're best at, right? Where you maybe have a power pair with them and the Nitroconus, and you rock on the table to four of them in a pack and a Nitroconus, and you just kind of go and wreck stuff. And then you have the rest of your armies who can do other things. Yep. OK, we'll see. We'll see. We've got some people making some bets in the comments right now. We'll see. Oh, yeah, we should mention that both Stormdrake and the Dracoffs now have single-it options that you can take one, if you take the guy to allow you to use the kit properly, which is cool. Thank you. That's just a total convenience thing, which is nice. That's fun. I like that because the hero for this and the hero for the Lord on Dracoff get built out of the kits. So, cool stuff. Yeah. All right, all the Dracothean guard concussers. These are basically the other paladins, the thing. They went up a wound. There's six wounds now. Not five, OK? And they got a lot of rend and damage. Like, these guys all went bonkers. So they all have Stormblast, which is the four-up D3 mortal wounds. And the hammer, the hammer guy, the concussers, so are hammer boys. Three attacks, three streaks, neg two, two damage. And all the claws and fangs are now three attacks, three streaks, neg two, two damage. Great. Great profile. And then the lightning hammers do the mortal wounds. It's just like they're paladin on foot counterparts, right? The desolators are the big axes, same rule again, plus two if they're outnumbered. I like these guys better because they're much more likely to be outnumbered. Because even if you take a double pack of them where they're battle lined and hammers a sigma, you're running four. Four is such a great number, right? Because it's gonna be so easy for you to get to 28 attacks. Like, or 29, sorry, does this guy have, no, they're just elite. They don't have a champion. Five attacks. So, cool stuff. Fulminators, man, I love fulminators so much. This is the one I wanna talk about. Like, I'm living this fulminator lifestyle. Yeah, sir, they're great. Fulminators are two for 230. Six wounds, three up, save. Five attacks, three streaks, neg two, one damage. But on the charge, they go to three damage. I'm living that fulminator lifestyle. The damage these guys do on the charge is bonkers. By the by. I mean, that's incredible. Yeah, they're so strong. I mean, they've been a pretty good take for a while. They're just so good now. If I remember right on the charge, these guys are like 70 damage, it's pretty good. It's like a mental base unit. That's a lot. That's a lot for one base unit that is your battle line. The Dracothean Guard tempestors, they don't do the neg one anymore. They just have the double hits, so. Okay. Fulminators are two 30. Fulminators are two 30, yes. To run this down, your concussers are two 20, your desolators are two 20, your fulminators are two 30, and your tempestors are two 20. I think fulminators definitely stand apart, but it's worth the 10 points to me. God, tempestors, I just don't know what they're doing. I, as, as, as Curran just said, I guess living, being in Living City, so they could shoot and move. But move and move what? I don't know. Yeah, I tend to agree. Like, I'm in, like, Flynn for fulminators. Yeah. I could also see an argument for concussers, by the way, with that big two damage base. I could see that. Sure. Evocators on Celestial Dracolines, they have Empower, which as mentioned, yes, they can, I didn't even think about it, but they can hit Redeemer or Sacrosanct units and add one to Wumrolls for attacks made by that unit. So that's cool. So they can hit all the different Redeemer units with their Empower spell. So like, again, that means Vindictors or Vigilators or whatever the heck, the Vanquishers, whatever all these things are called, Vanquishers, Secreters, all that kind of stuff. Castigators. They, yes. No, because castigators, oh yeah, castigators or sacrosanct. Yes, they can give it to castigators. Yep, absolutely. So you can get to twos and twos with your castigators. Yeah, which I shout out to Mr. Gank in the chat. He pulled that out. I did not see that originally. I did not think about that overlap. That turned me right around on castigators. I'm so happy about it. I missed it on my first read. Yeah, they're fun. They still are okay. They can do some decent damage on the charge and stuff. So yeah, and they have built-in reroll charge, which is fun. And they can still pop more to Wumms. Evocators on Celestial Dracolene. Where the heck are these guys? There they are. 280 for three. It's a lot. Yeah, that's a lot. It is a lot. So. It's a shame that the Grand Stave has no rend. It is. It should have just been an egg one rend or something like that. Like, and they should have balanced it out. I hate it having that no rend. It bothers the crap out of me. It always has. But losing, not having any rend two on these guys is a shame. It is. It is. They feel like they should have had rend two somewhere. I agree. At that price. Yep. All right. The base foot evocators, four attacks, the threes and threes neg one-one damage. Again, with the Grand Stave choice, they are a wizard. They have the same in power. So they again can hit Redeemer or Sacrosanct people. Regular evocators are 230. Neither of these guys have any battle line option or anything like that. So they're just kind of an extra unit. I really have a feeling that both evos and evos on Celestial Dracolene at their current points are going to have a problem finding a home in armies. Yeah, if they're not being able to be taken as battle line while Paladins can, it's so weird because like so many things in the Stormcast army can be battle lines somehow that it seems like units that have no way to get battle line are going to get left in the dust a little bit. Yes. And as Mr. Gank mentioned, they are all one inch reach now, no two inch reach. Yeah. So it's like, it's just hard to imagine these guys ever being in more than five or whatever, right? All right, the Ballista. So the Ballista changed a lot. It's nine wounds now. Got two wounds, I guess that's something on a four up save. It has its lightning charge shot, 36 inch range, one attack, threes, twos, neg three rend D six damage. Let's see how much you love D six now. Or it has the Stormbolt rapid fire. This thing used to work very differently, right? Because it was like free trade and then four hits and you know, every hit was like a D six hits and it used to hit on five for the multi shot. Now it's just a bunch of attacks, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. And basically that's it. It's all in the numbers now. Either you shoot one at 36 inches on threes, twos, neg three D six, or you make two D six shots at four threes, neg two one. 140 points. Not for me. Tom. So let's compare that to castigators. Sure. Sure. Which are seven shots, 18 inches, threes and threes, neg two rend one damage. Yep. So they hit the same average, right? As this, now technically this has a slightly higher end. Right. Technically spike just, but a worse to hit. But a worse to hit, yep. And this is 40 more points. It's 35. Yes, this is 145 more points. It has a slower move. Yes. Very much so. I think I'm in for castigators. Yeah. When you put them up against the castigators the comparison becomes quite fun. Like sure you can do the long range shot, you know, and like, but again, we all know how much we love one attack on threes and twos, right? Like it's, you know, it is what it is. I mean, if you like artillery, then obviously you're going to pair this, dude. You've got a Lord Nader in your list. You've got a couple of these. You're going to, you're going to pop, right? Like that's what you're going to do. That's your play, right? You're going to use the long range shot and you're going to go in hard on the neg three rend and try to wreck, right? Yep. That's what you're going to do. You're just going to like, put this guy on twos and twos, pick a unit, roll three dice, hope you get three twos. Then you get three twos again. Neg three rend is a crushing amount of rend. Admittedly, for the single shot. And then you're going to hope you roll hard on that three, six. And sometimes you will, right? And you'll do a crap ton of damage. Yeah. And sometimes you won't. And sometimes you won't. Yep. It is a very swingy unit, right? Yeah. I mean, if you're having a battery of these with Lord Nader in that at the 18 inch range, 66 shots. Pretty good. Yeah, but it's not traveling anywhere anytime soon. Right. It's a drop in pop hold. You're not moving there. You've got to be in silence. I hate to even make this comparison, but like chemists in KO have 3D six shots at nearly the same profile, neg two rend one damage for 95 points. And they're also providing a buff. Now, obviously like it's hard to compare across factions, yada, yada. But my point is that like, even in the best circumstances, this is just isn't that good. Because it's not moving quickly. So yeah, you could do a battery of them, but it's going to move real slow. Yeah. Move. You can't remember, this is a sacrosanct unit. So you could empower it. Sure. Sure. Just throwing out options. Like you could put the multi-shot on threes and twos. That is doable. Yes. Yes. I just like, I would rather put the castigators on twos and twos. I understand. Yeah. Yeah. It's a rough comparison. I think at 140 it's probably just not in the conversation. It takes too much to make it work. Don't throw good money. Like maybe 120. Endless spells and then we're done. So here we go. The Dias Arcanum is still not doing anything I can tell unless you really want to take a wizard and make him fly 12. Yep. That's what the point of this thing is, as near as I can tell. At this point we know, just taking another hero. Like Stormcast has so many heroes, just take a different one. Right. The Everblaze Comet I do think is still valuable as part of your, if you're doing the mortal wound strategy. Right? If you're doing the mortal wound thing. If you're just splashing. If you're going for the splash, you'd still take it because it still does a big pop and it still can hit like D3 or D6 mortals over a good size range. Right, right. We'll definitely mortal wound everybody. Most people will get hit by a D3. It's a good combination in your mortal wound thing with like the Night Vexillaur and stuff. Yep. Right. Or you're, and the Celestin Prime because he's another one who can drop mortal wounds around. Yep. The Vortex still no good for my money. That's what it is now. How much is the Vortex? Yeah. 80 points. Nope, you can stop. Correct. And that's it, boys. That's it. That's the end. We did it. That's it. That's it. We did it. Man. The rest is the point. It only took four and a half hours. But we got there. We did it. But we did get there. All right, Will. Congrats to the 200 and some people that stuck with us. Yeah, I mean, you're all heroes. You know what? You should hit that like button because we like you. That's what I say. You know they are? They're only the faithful. That's what it is. That's right. No. But at any rate, thank you, David. I really appreciate you being here for this super long show. This was a big one. But it was great. I hope that I brought you around somewhat to my initial pitch. That I think there are still lists here. I think there's still lots of play. It's not just like dragons or GTFO, right? It's for everybody else. I hope you see that there's still like, there is some interesting play here. There's multiple different lists that are at least worth looking into. Are they all going to be top to your competitive? Man, I don't know. Anybody who tells you they do is lying or is trying to sell you something, right? Like this stuff needs play. This stuff needs understanding. We're going to have lots of books. Things are going to be changing a lot. But I think this is a wonderful foundation. It's a beautiful starting army. A lot of the old units I think still have play. I like Dracoths. I like a lot of the Paladins. I think that like the Knight Religion and Castlin are still great. I think there's still some fantastic heroes and combos. Yes, I think the new dragons are good. And I think we do need some small points move. But I think we can get there, right? I really hope in the Winter FAQ, we move some stuff around. And Tom, you brought me over on castigators, man. I'm excited for them for the first time ever. Like I, doing that, I just didn't do the math properly before, but you sold me. Yeah, like I just think that there's something there. Like, and I don't know, I don't know the right combo, but I think that they are one of those pieces that needs to be visited. Yeah. And I want to see people, I'd like to see people experiment with Redeemer lists, shooting lists, Morta Woon splashy lists, and Paladin smash your face lists, right? I think there's at least, and maybe some mix up. Then there's probably the fifth, which is just like kind of the jack of all trades, power pair lists. It kind of mixes a few of those things together. There's some good allies here. There's some good main stuff here. A lot of the heroes that need attention. Can we just celebrate the prime again for a moment? Just let's end the show by talking about how great the Celestin prime is now and how excited I am about him. A lot of good stuff. So there you go, everyone. I hope if you were down at all about the Stormcast book, you're not now. I think there is stuff here. Is it a perfect book? No, do we need to move some points? Yes, but is this a great book and a great place to start the edition? I think absolutely, yes. I think if you're a Stormcast player, you're gonna have some fun options to start playing around with and some really fun lists to take. So there you go. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for watching. Don't forget to hit that like button. Hit subscribe if you haven't already. At the end of this four and a half hour marathon. What are you doing? Hit that sub button. As always, very much appreciate you watching and we'll see you next time. See you next Wednesday.