 So, this is a regular meeting of the new board for the town of Berlin. We have one application before tonight. I'm going to start with the productions however, since everybody's wearing a mask. My far left is Tour Delsen. Paulie McMurtry. Paulie McMurtry, good board. It's okay, it's a long day. I'm the zoning administrator. Carl DeWiesel, member of the board. And myself, I'm Bob Wernick. I'm the chair of the board. If you all would introduce yourself, I'll start with you. On the left, Bernie. Bernie Shannette, representing the architectural control committee, review the control committee, practice firms association. I'm Jane Bartram. And a butter of the property being discussed. Marty Bligerstead on a butter as well. Meg Grubos on the architectural control committee for a practice firm. I'm David Grubos, the president of the practice firms association. Lewis Gritzer on a butter of 69.3. Okay, and who do we have on? Okay. So I'm going to introduce your crew. Trish. There I'm a little slow on that. So it's a, we've got Joel Baker here. And myself. And I'm going to close myself. Yeah. I'm sorry, Trish Sawyer. I'm the realtor. Working with Joe. Okay, thank you. And Joel's the property owner. I'll let him speak on his for himself. Hi, everybody. Yeah. No, nobody's been sworn in to speak yet. So. All right. Catherine, can you introduce yourself? Catherine Lagerstead property of butter at 99 point Ridge Road. Kathleen, can you introduce yourself? This is Catherine Lagerstead 99 point Ridge Road. Yeah. Kathleen's my wife. She doesn't. 69 point Ridge. Kathleen McDonald. Okay. So. Before I begin anything tonight, I want to swear but again, because of your testimony, but I think before I do that, I'm going to ask, is anybody here requesting party status on this application? Party status is required. If you want to, you can testify, but if you want to appeal or be involved in the decision, you need to have party status. Party status is awarded to what? I think there's five different categories. Should I read them to you? Most common is in the body. Most common is butter. But one of the most common is butters. Or, particularly in the immediate neighborhood. So that's the most common that people apply under. So who wishes to have party status on this matter before the war tonight? Besides the applicant obviously. No one? Okay. Hey, Christine. Christine's our recording secretary. So I'll start by swearing everybody in. It tends to get testimony before the sport tonight. Please raise your right hand. Swear to tell the truth. Nothing but truth. And as before the sport tonight on the penalties of perjury. I do. I do. Thank you. So. We start by asking the applicant to describe the nature of their application. Okay. Well, I bought this lot along with four others in the neighborhood. I think in 1995. And the intent was to build or sell on these lots. And for whatever reason, I was a builder at the time. More or less retired at this point. But for whatever reason, I never got around to building any houses. On these lots myself. So we sold four of them. And some of them, I believe were built on some or not. But we hung on to lot 35. For no particular reason. I mean, it was. In my case, it was kind of an out of sight, out of mind thing. And. It's kind of, it's come back to the surface in this environment. You know, I'm older. I don't need it. I'm not going to build on it. I'm not going to sell it. So. That's what's motivated. Myself and Trish to kind of pursue this. So. You know, my belief when I bought it, it was a plan residential development or a planned unit development, whatever. I thought at that point that. You know, all the permitting was pretty much established. And so. Nowhere was there any reference to this slot being any different than any other lot. And so. Apparently we need a curb cut. Which is fine. So that's why we're here. Yeah, I actually, my apologies. I failed to. Really read what this application is that is before tonight. It's just so we know what we're looking at here tonight. In application by Mr Baker for a request under section. 3203 B for B. To reduce the spacing of a new curb cut. When it is not physically feasible to achieve required spacing on the applicants. Obtaining an access permit in the town. So this is actually asking for permission to reduce distance between care cuts. And this between curb cuts is governed by our regulations. Largely by reference to. All the state standards. For transportation. And that is. B71 B71 which is now B71 B. B71 a. Bylaws speaks to B71 was now by law B71 a which is residential drives. And that basically speaks to distance between. Curbs. In case of 100. What is the speed limit on that world you know Tom. 25. You should know for sure. That's 155. 155 feet between curb cuts. Is what's recommended by the. B71. A. So. And that's not directly it actually makes reference to. States. Access management program guidelines. Which you have to sort of read those to get why we're here. Yes Tom. Mr. Chair. Context to this discussion tonight. Please. This I spoke to. So early on in this process. And. My understanding back in 1995 the town of Berlin did not require curb cuts. And these blocks were developed without. In effect seeking a perfect permit. And that's why we're here now that maybe answers Mr. Baker's question. Mr. Baker's question. Why I thought all the permitting was in hand. We bought a lot but. That's my understanding is that back then. Perpet permits were not required. They are required today. And so. I spoke to. Miss Sawyer. And. And suggested that. Because. Perpet permits are issued by the Berlin select board. That. Her most expedient way through the permitting process would. Would be to. To go visit the select board and request a curve cut. The. The select board was. Notified in advance of our regulations and they said. They really wanted the DRB to weigh in on it. On that. So they they have put off their decision on the curve cut. My sense is it's again my sense is. If. If. The DRB. The grant. A waiver under under this section. That the select board was likely granted. One thing. Yes, go ahead please. As I understand it. You know, when a planned residential or planned unit development is put together. The intent is to. Intensify. The development patterns. In other words. Get a higher density. And to that end. Your standard dimensional. Regulations are. Not really considered. In other words, the setbacks are less. These lot sizes are less. Everything is. You know, I think it's a little bit. I think to be a little bit condensed. And you know, there's. It's a dead end road to a cul-de-sac and. It's not a 50 mile an hour drive by. Thank you. Yeah, we were talking here about a provision under the. Commercial drives and then. Residential drives and say. Must be new curb cut. So. Okay. New curve because it was separated by existing approved curb cut. The same side. The road from any intersection that is specified by B 71. B 71 a. Except that they'll be. Reboard may. And you probably all have read this. Reduce the spacing. If it's not physically possible to otherwise. So obviously there's what's the right away. 20 foot width. It's not a, it's not technically a right away so much as just the dimension of the property. Okay. Yeah. Very good. Questions by members of the board. What is the distance? Yeah. What will the distance be. This is would be. I'm sorry. What was the question? What would the distance to the nearest driveway being from your driveway? You know, I just have. I have the lot boundaries in front of me on a map, but I don't know exactly where the. Where the driveways are located. I mean. There's a drive next to me or a lot next to me lot 44. The total width is 112 feet. So obviously that's not going to be 155 feet from anywhere. The lot on the other side lot 33. The total width appears to be. Approximately 130 feet. I mean, all these lots are. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it appears that. The driver will be adjacent to the. Is it the one driver? Yes, it would be a matter of feet. Yeah. It would be a matter of probably less than 20 feet. Right. So. So this. This lot was approved back in whenever the. Was approved the shape of the lot and all. Correct. In 1988. Okay. The question by board members. Questions or comments by. People who have asked to be. Involved tonight. Our architectural control committee has submitted a letter. I believe it's October 28th. Which sort of describes the. Concerns that we have regarding development of this lot. First of all, that, that. Strip 20 foot strip is. Is part of the lot. Within that 20 feet, there has to be a underground power. Water and driveway. And there is quite a cross slope on the. On the lower part of that. That we. Think will be an issue in terms of. Creating a. Recently level of drive into the lot. Without encroaching on the neighbors. Either side. The primary concern, though, with this. This. Development of this lot is the. Wetlands. And the drainage, the stormwater drainage that. Flows onto this lot. Good portion of the lot is wetlands. There would have to be an expert brought in to actually look at that and. Delineate and. Determine the limits of it, but. From the, from the obvious cat tails that we see and so forth. It appears that a good portion is wetland. That wetland functions as a mitigation factor for our stormwater. Coming down behind all of the homes above. There is a main drainage way. That crosses the lot. There's also a drainage way from Point Ridge road, which you can see on the aerial photo that we're looking at. That has cat tails in it. And that veers into the 20 feet near the bottom of the. The. 20 foot section there. There's another drainage that comes off of the hill. So there's a confluence of three drainages on this lot. As well as the wetlands. So we would simply like to. Request as we said in our letter that the board defer the. The waiver on this curb cut until these other issues are resolved. A site plan is developed to scale. Showing the limits of the wetland. The drainages. How the drive is actually going to be constructed. Without filling in wetlands. Which we know is not permitted. And how. The owner intends to stay within the 20 feet that he has. Without approaching on the neighbors to do cuts and fills and to make this. This drive work. We have no problem with the decision on will go. Whatever the board says on the curb cut itself. But that's sort of a minor point. Compared to the environmental concerns we have. In developing the law. I think that's. I think the letter kind of speaks for itself in that regard. So. Found your little telling. One member of the board but I have to tell you that. That really has nothing to do with what the board is considering tonight. What is not considered whether the law should be developed and not be developed. Or is not considering you know. Complications and drainage. Really is only saying this is between drives. And. Frankly I. From my perspective it kind of beats the standards laid out here. That the board must find. I mean it. Low Vine Road. Without even looking at that's the next standard which is. Not physically feasible. Unless only has another alternative of how to do this. I don't see how it's physically feasible to access a lot without using this drive. Just my opinion. Board is not made a decision by any means but. Just responding to those issues just put these respective. You have not asked for party status so. Right now you're just speaking as a. Friend. Well I'll explain that we don't have any intent. Of. Appealing. Of the decision of the board regarding the current cut. Okay. So that's why. You know. We don't need to. Request party status. Thank you. I may ask. The authority of the. Architectural control committee within the association. Do the final. Development have to come to you for approval and do you have the authority. As the ACC to with all that approval. We believe we do. Okay. And then. Mr. Baker what is the width of the proposed drive way. Well your standard residential drive way is around 12 feet in width. I mean it could be a tad. Could possibly be 10 feet but. 10 to 12 feet is typical. For you know. A residential drive that services one. Home. And is there an existing culvert across the road right there. There is. There is a cross culvert. On Point Ridge Road. So that's something that's like. Those like there's a catch basin there. No it's just an open culvert. All the all the flow from. One side of the other road crosses right there. And joins the other side. And it all goes down onto this lot. I think a site visit would really help but. Again if you're narrow focus is just. I have to tell you I think our focus is narrow. I think the select board probably has more prerogative. In granting a curb cut or not granted curb cut or any conditions attached to it. But we're really dealing with distance between curb cuts. That's the only thing we're dealing with tonight. And frankly. Again you pointed out or somebody just pointed out that. Joe Mr. Baker did that basically. We're dealing with it. A plan to present. Planetary development which is designed to have compact. Development. And so. It's expected that. Driveways. Most most of us don't have a hundred feet five feet. In front of you. So. I'm not sure that hundred feet five feet is appropriate standard for a road this world. That's sort of state standard. Is it correct to say that you're recommending to the select board that this curb cut. If. Be granted the waiver if that's your decision. We have made a decision. If that's your decision it would be a recommendation to. It would be it would be it would be approving. The curb cut. Our action would be to approve or not prove. Make. The way. Yeah. The way. The standard. Yeah. It does not improve a perfect. This board doesn't have. We don't. That's right. And that'd be I guess I don't say a concern. You know for the applicant that. Don't misjudge. This action. As meaning it you know. Yeah. The type of. I think for hundreds. You know the select board would have to follow. It's just a very narrow focus that we're dealing with tonight. You know there are a lot of significant issues that the ACC has brought up. You know it's I think are going to be dealt with it's just not within. Our control is this board. To do. Really only thing we have is we have the ability to wave space to wave that space. Correct. And. That's what we're hearing. Is there any argument why we should. Not wave that space. Based on these criteria. I have just a point of clarification please. Kissing down. Can you state your name please. Make provost. Thank you. So. Make. Last name again. Pro ghost. Thank you. Sorry. And the cameras are tough to pick up. I'm laboring there again instead of being affected by. Masks. So if if I'm looking. At. The. Property. For this lot. The way the lot is designed. It goes between Mr. Liger stats. Driveway. And. Mr. Dricers. And in between there. Is a. The culvert that Bernie was talking about that will run parallel. With the driveway that he intends so do I understand correctly that. Anywhere between Marty's property line. And. The culvert. Mr. Baker could put in his driveway. Is that is that how I'm understanding the curve cut. He could not could he or could he not consider that culvert. To be part of his allotted space. To put the curve to put the driveway. It's not his property. Depends where the property is very. Very. I guess. You're asking a legal question. You're asking a legal question. Does. Does the association or someone have. Permission from the property owner to have that covered there. Now the culvert we're talking about is a cross culvert within the right of way the town right of way the road. Okay. Nothing to do with the driveway. In all honesty I don't think. Again. We're speculating on where a call word is. I don't think we could even answer that question for me. There was a survey. You could point to it. The definitive line. We can't answer that question. The applicant will have to ask answer that question. With any supplicant supplicant application. Application to the select board. This board cannot answer that question. We're just we're just asked to digress spacing. 155 feet. It'd be less than 155 feet for the next drive. That's really what we're being asked. There is there is an initial consideration. That can be approved under the same bylaw and that has to do with shared driveways. But that would require cooperation between property owners. But shared driveways are a reasonable solution to a problem like this or a possible solution problem like this. That's not within the purview of the DRB to insist on a shared driveway. If these were a new subdivision of some sort. We can insist on these driveways being shared. But these are two separate property owners. That's the next part of the same section. Now is there also a manhole on the Leggerstit property? It's in the right away. It's in the right away? Okay. We're not right away with his property. Is that a sewer manhole? Yes. I believe so. That's what I saw. I was looking at Google Maps and I saw this manhole. Is there anything, Tom, as far as spacing between the manhole and the driveway or nothing would affect the operational manhole? Nothing in our bylaws. So again, our bylaws are pretty straightforward. We're looking at simply spacing of driveways. Is there any additional testimony from neighbors or vastspeakers? All the brosses. It's going to be Lewis or Acer. So if you look at this aerial view, the driveway. Pull it up so they can see what you're talking about. You guys don't have that? They do, but so you can point out and describe it. The distance between this orange driveway and the Leggerstit driveway is less than 8 feet, so I can tell if at 155 feet, your ride sounds like a lot, but what would be too little spacing between this driveway and another driveway? I mean, 8 feet is not very much. Right? No. I would say mine's 5 or 6 feet. From your neighbor's driveway? Right. I'm at the end of the cul-de-sac there. It's not unusual. The very top. You guys are going to have driveways that close? Yeah. Right? It's not unusual. Anywhere in this town to have driveways that close? As long as there's room for the snow. Snow banks. That's all the best for them. Yeah. Questions by board members? Tom, do you have any useful comments? No, thank you. There's a lot of cars being stored down there. Sorry? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It's my comment. Mr. Baker, do you have any additional comments you want to make? I would just. Suggest that. The town of Berlin has been taxing me as though this was a viable house lot. For the last. 25 years or so. So I've been kind of operating under that. Delusion. Just a testimony of everyone's offer. Hearing none. I would take a motion to close the hearing portion of this application. So moved. Second. Motion has been made. Seconded by two or first. All those in favor of that motion, please sit by by saying aye. Aye. Aye. No one's opposed. So this hearing is closed. We thank you all for attending. Thank you. The board will probably do a delivery session now. So we're probably going to ask her to leave. In fact, I wouldn't take a motion to go to the board for the session. All right. So moved. All right. Seconded by two or first. Thank you. All those in favor of that motion, please sit by by saying aye. Aye. Thank you. Good night.