 Hi, I'm guy Hi, everyone. I'm Sandy and We're here to learn about starting tomatoes from suckers so Our title is economic implications of starting late season tomatoes seeds versus suckers And this all came about kind of through a Sarah grant. We got in 2016 of the two-year Sarah grant and we wanted to see about you know Time and money-wise and starting Tomatoes late season from seed versus from suckers And if you don't know what suckers are you will find out here in just a little bit, but all tomatoes have suckers on them We'll start off maybe a little bit here. I'll tell you a little bit about our farm and then we'll kind of get into the sucker business on that This is minus Sandy to picture Lady by the fence is our daughter Nelly and she farms full-time with that girl's flowers right here at the farm and her husband Joel and then Seniors our son Conrad Ashmore. He's a equal partner in the produce here at the farm And he also farms organic corn beads and small rains and hay with another partner The next to him is our other daughter Maggie And she farms full-time in Eastern Kentucky and Clay County raising organic produce and along with her husband will That raises lots of proteins down there. You know the work She This was this year's crew We generally raise about six date acres of produce along with about two acres of cut flowers We sell at the one farmers market. We wholesale Some small groceries and Dayton and Cincinnati. We have an honor system here at the farm and Do a CSA a small CSA a winner in a seller one, but that was Kelly with the red flowers She was a produce this year then Emma of the yellow flowers is her second year with Nelly Nelly and our granddaughter Maribel and Sandy and the rest of the crew here I Said we sell at a farmers market Everybody's pretty familiar with that. This picture is a Liz and she was with us in 2015 and actually she's the one that kind of encouraged us to do this Sarah Grant She was real intrigued with the suckers and we've talked about Sarah grants and if you don't know about Sarah We'll talk about those in a little bit She started she looked the outline The grant actually and then we've been doing cat flowers since uh, oh 20 some years and now they took over that part of the farm about seven years ago So Sarah is a stable agricultural research and education It's kind of through the USDA and they give out grants to farmers and ranchers colleges High schools for educational purpose on stainless lag They're a really neat organization and we were fortunate enough to get accepted and actually we've got a short video It's about four minutes and it's going to explain quite a bit This came about they do a spot checks every year and this is how this little video came about We are Guy and Sandy Ashmore from that guy's family farm. We are in southwest, Ohio and between Cincinnati and Dayton and our Sarah project was a economic impact of late season tomatoes Crop with starting from suckers versus seed and we're getting our suckers from existing tomato plants and See how much time savings that would be in the busy time We also kind of limited on labor and equipment for greenhouse space So suckers could be just taken from the plant and started and we're doing a trial here with three different varieties And we are a certified organic farm. So we are following all those practices as well The varieties that we have in here are really field varieties and not varieties. You might find in a tunnel situation So we have some Arkansas travelers for testing some heirlooms Big beef a very traditional red slicer and then we have fourth of July, which would be an early producer It's early tomato. Yeah And one thing about for being certified organic. It's hard to find late season tomato starts that are certified organic So that's one reason we're really excited about these suckers We can take them right from our farm and not have to worry search somewhere for expensive late season tomatoes And we're open in the tunnels, you know, a lot of research has been done on disease resistance So we're kind of hoping to see how suckers will do with Plants started from seed. Yeah, we're also, you know, curious about, you know Wisdom and knowledge from the past So this whole idea came about from someone telling us at market that their father would always start his late season tomatoes From the suckers. So that just, you know, a light bulb moment. We decided we thought we could do that We are also a farm that didn't Produce too many transplants in a greenhouse. So we did a lot of direct seeding We Depend on another grower that would do some of our transplants. So this was one way we could, you know, get get a transplant without having a greenhouse Well, I think, you know, if you're a limited resource farmer with smaller Equipment you really wouldn't need a greenhouse to start these transplants You wouldn't have to invest in the potting soil and the lights You can just take these suckers right off the plant and like there I think it's a big win situation that you don't have to worry in a July if your ceilings are going to die in a greenhouse because you forgot to water them, which came close and I Think it just really kind of helps be a full circle to keep everything on the farm your inputs are coming from the farm that you're working on and You know, you're up to build your soil to build your plants to continue that that circle I want to just Snap it off. You would just stick that right in the soil mix about there we do First, you know Two or three days they're gonna look like they're dead. It's kind of like spinach and then in about two weeks. They'll be almost rootbound in the container Went to Sarah as we've seen the research projects They've done in the past and I think like they're free thinkers too and willing to support new ideas maybe even old ideas like the suckers from transplants and They've been great to work with so far and I think they're really good at spreading education across the country of different regions They have and it's really been a big help and we always like looking at what? Everybody else is trying and you don't know to Do it really on the farm if it's going to work or not in a real life situation And I think Sarah's gonna help in us do that. One reason we want to date season tomatoes is we get We're in a bottom ground or farm is mostly bottom ground soils or all it is we get lots of late-dos Lots of moisture. So we get lots of early white down here So our tomatoes a lot of times on last as long as season as other farmers So we kind of wanted to push that envelope a little bit and have some early tomatoes for our winter CSA which starts in October and November and That's kind of the reason for this Sandy mentioned in the video that a customer at Farmers Market mentioned it and that customer is actually about 80. So his dad was raising these you know back You know knowledge that kind of gets lost Here's our tomatoes in the field we raise about I don't know 2,000 field tomatoes and We try to do white spacing so we get more airflow to try to avoid Early blight and then we mulch so we don't get water splash. We'll be still really fight early blight It's a pain problem. So this is about the size of tomatoes are when we get the suckers off Like Sandy said we wanted to use varieties. They're using field production. So that's what we have You know, there's we're not you want to learn how to raise tomatoes Really good in a greenhouse or high tunnels. We're not the person to come to you We don't do that that much, but we do have a That's kind of why we wanted to try this out to see if we could use our field to varieties for this and The first year we did fourth of July big beef in Arkansas Traveller the second year We went with green zebra and said Arkansas Traveller Green zebras really did not like the tunnel for us So here's the plants in those the suckers You know what they are the side shoots that come off the plant a lot of people turn those off anyway for try to get better yield Better production. So there's one right there by my thumb. Actually this one's got three suckers on it The one right here in Sandy's hand is about the size. We kind of like to do them They could be bigger and you'll see these other photos. They are bigger. So that's a sucker Yeah, you just just snap them off. It's almost as too easy to believe how this works These suckers are bigger and we use a 72 cell tray We just you know, just stick them in there. We don't use any Rooting compound or anything like that. We did but stick them in some great soul mix we get from peach Mountain Then what happens you put them in there and then they look like cooked spinach and about a day or two And what we do is we try to keep now the direct Sun Here we got them underneath the flatbed wagon when they get some daylight Yeah, but they're out of direct Sun to get some indirect in the morning and they'll look like this You know, you'll think they're dead and we always do every year and then after about a week You know, they're standing up and you're just kind of remarkable Here's a one week old sucker you kind of see by the stem and top my hand I'll affirm it is and that's the roots already after one week There's after two weeks and you know, it's not root bound, but it's just It's always remarkable A little fuzzy, but see there and then there's like six weeks on the left Versus the two-week suckers on the right you can even see the suckers got better color And you know that time of year it's just really tough and into June and July to have time to Keep up for us in the greenhouse Right, so that's the control group, which is just Plants that we had started in the greenhouse Which are the ones on the left and then the suckers were on the right. So You know, there's always that fear that we weren't going to get them water I want to kind of just tell the same women saying you'll be struggle to do it They're our busiest months of the year And I said, you know farmers working to prove six or more acres of vegetables and we've got a small crew We try to be as efficient as we can and you know, but everybody's you want to keep your cost production down and their suckers Are free Then here we are in the tunnel and you part of this serigrant if you've ever looked at serigrants, you know, you do get money And ours was about $5,300 for a two-year grant And actually I paid for this tunnel and their labor and you know potting soil Seeds We you know with that grant we had to have a field day and do a public demonstration and just some things, you know But you normally do farming so really wasn't anything out of the ordinary Probably the biggest thing out of the ordinary is us using this tape measure because we really got that precise and Usually you give by the wet holes that have our purge you put your tomatoes, but you know, we uh, we Smartered it up. I guess you might say and I'm trying to do this so we can keep track of all this for serigrants and I was thinking that For the labor hours, it could only be the farmer So you couldn't hire things when you're hire someone out or use their hours for a serigrant So it has to be you doing the labor and tracking it And then we didn't uh, you know, we had three beds in here. We always call them beds, but We had six rows and they were side by side Sandwich planting big beef right here and the suckers are what she's planting right now And on the right that's laying out to get planted for the ones from seed Um, we did 80 suckers and 80 seeded transplants And then we you know, we string and clip like are giving it up And this just kind of shows you that you know Suckers have suckers right below that clip is a sucker coming out. So, you know, if you had a Heated greenhouse of lights, I guess you could just keep taking suckers off and forever It's pretty remarkable And this is probably this is 4th of july. They're a smaller tomato. You never raised them. They're great tomato Maybe about an inch and a half That under two inches. These are probably about uh, we've you know Six weeks eight weeks That time of year, you know, you got full sunlight. Things really just take off And this is probably, you know middle of september And this picture here is kind of demonstrating You can see there's two rows there and the suckers are on the left and the ones from seed on the right You know, they look identical You know, we're looking down any difference in diseases or growth habits So here's some figures So in 2016 we started the seeds on may 18th And then we snapped the suckers off on june 16th Both were planted on july 11th and we picked till killing frost, which was november 11th inside that tunnel Harvest began on august 8th In the 2017 You know, we were behind again I mean, we was a week later getting our seeds started and a week later kind of getting the suckers Both were planted on july 17th, which is a week later than the year before And then the harvest began almost two weeks later that year and killing frost came in october 21st and what was kind of interesting on this Tomatoes in 2017 in that tunnel actually out yielded the ones in 2016 even though we harvested a couple weeks shorter and we found out and it works and we'll say this Grant started in 2016 I think the first suckers we planted like about a handful out the field was 2013 And then we kind of increased it just a little bit trying to Play around with it. It's really time saving. It's easy. You know an economical way to produce late season tomato transplants As opposed to we found that suckers increased the yields And they ripened up to about a week sooner So we were harvesting the sucker tomatoes about a week sooner than we were to want some seed Even though the seeded plants were over And if you actually went to um the sarah website You can look this up and it has like our daily logs It has the amounts of tomatoes that were harvested Each day or every other day and all of that's on there. I couldn't actually get it to fit into this Present They're on the sarah website even more information and we just Counted what tomatoes were marketable, you know, they had one one damage or something like that. We did not weigh them And there you go, you know, one one's like all tomatoes if they're inside or outside Like I said, we saw no difference on what they preferred There's a little fuzzy there They're gonna say the sucker tomatoes, you know transplants used almost 20 less hours of labor 19 half to produce in five less weeks of Worrying about them, you know water numb and making sure they're not cooked And uh for sarah, we had to put a dollar amount stuff. So 19 half hours equal about 390 dollars in labor The sucker tomatoes yielded 21 percent more fruit Which it was fabulous and that equaled like 368 more dollars also in those two seasons We were surprised at the increase in yields. I didn't really think it would be that much difference Uh, we were able to harvest five to seven weeks longer than the field Because we're like, you know, it took them out about Second week of september third week and in the tunnels. We really saw no difference in disease. I was kind of worried Since uh, we take the suckers off We usually have early blight already kind of starting on our plants. So I was or we were Thinking now we're taking suckers in the tunnel. They're going to just continue with that early blight There was no difference in disease in there And we think everybody should try it and just uh pretty fun to see if you only do one in your flower bed So here we go the valuation transplants from suckers did increase profitability Reduced our time and resources needed and created a late season crop that had environmental economic and social benefits for the farm farmers and customers This forward thinking using traditional wisdom of the past can lead to greater financial stability for farmers and they all need to be More financially sustainable And that might be good Okay, I guess Sorry, these are messed up So recommendations was uh, it's a simple process of producing a second and we this one kind of says that you might be able to do a second Production just out in the field Without putting them in tunnels depending on where you're at. So, you know, if you wanted to I think everybody's yields start to decline on tomatoes no matter if you got early blight or not coming, you know into september So there's a potential to keep the farmer ahead of disease. And like said on the first crop Uh collection of suckers can begin as soon as they are formed Then two weeks later transplanted grow a second crop and then you keep planting, you know, every two to three weeks if you want it We haven't done that But I think it's very possible Another thing I really think is that you could take the suckers And actually not even put them in this 72 cell trays. I think you could just plant take them and just put them right in the ground To have to put some shade cloth over them because they wilt so bad But I really think you almost could take away Almost all that later Uh, maybe we'll try that this year. I keep saying we're going to other things, you know Kids around around the spokes here, but uh, I just I really don't see any reason why you would have to put in that cell tray Except to keep them shaded, you know, the shade cloth can work with that with hoops, I believe Or rainy week, maybe or rainy week coming up, right to be overcast I don't know if that's the last slide. Yeah, that would be for questions, but yeah, so I guess uh I kind of went through that kind of quick, but Questions about anything So are all the tomatoes you grow uh indeterminate? Yes, yeah, we've raised one variety for disease But probably all of you know 30 varieties you've raised 29 or are indeterminate And you're indeterminate to put on lots of suckers Unlimited supply on that We didn't try any determinants but uh That'd be something else to work on I said it's almost just uh too simple a process When the gentleman told us about it, you know, I thought maybe He'd forgotten something from his youth that you had had more steps to it But it really is just as simple as breaking a sucker off and putting it in the soil And if anybody raises tomatoes, you know, they lay on the ground they start to root anyway So, you know, it's not as surprising when you start to think about the whole plant Well, I have a question Um, are there any varieties that you don't think I mean, I can't wait to do this this year Are there any varieties that you think just wouldn't work? You know, we had green zebra in there Yeah They were just kind of went crazy. They Multi branched really bad and the yield was really just not there Oh, okay beef and um Fourth of July and Arkansas travelers just did Fantastic. So I don't think I know cherries just take off Yeah, the research thing but we've done cherries in the past and they just uh, I love it Did like three different varieties of cherries. They really really Yeah, I'm getting into Sarah if you have any ideas for Sarah and I tell you I I'd have put in a plug for Sarah and Otha I said in them two workshops that Otha gave over the years on the writing Sarah branch And uh, it's very helpful on that The main one they said was make sure you can read your grant You do it by hand make sure it's readable or it probably won't go through it And they couldn't have been more easy to work with So really we've got any type of grant, you know I think, you know, if we wanted to do a new grant with your cherries versus determinants, uh, You know that but something to dispel into it Sometimes people get a Sarah grant and then you realize you need more information and they will help you with that if you really got a viable project All the times you're counting I think I will try it Yeah, I'm excited to try it as well especially just, uh Snapping them off and sticking them in the ground Right. Yeah I mean really what do you got to lose? Right And you know, most people think they're suckers off. Anyway, it's up to the first bloom or more So you got to use for them Guy, do your customers recognize your real organic project label yet? No, you know, we just got Bad about in august, I believe And we've headed up at market trying to get some encouragement We really haven't pushed it too much either, but uh, hopefully more and more will and more more of us will join with it, you know I think they've got a good good program. And I think they're Really passionate about it Couraging by that certified mechanic and they're been great to work with also Amber, do you want to put that link for the evaluation into the chat now? I can do that for sure People a chance to do that because it looks like some people are already kind of drifting away Dropping out There's our email, uh, feel free to contact us Have any questions suckers or anything else we're doing? I have to share Guy, I would love to come out and see your farm. How do you feel about visitors? Oh, we always like to have visitors, you know, okay Always try to have an open forum policy, you know I come down to show you sometimes people stop by we don't have time but they're welcome to go anywhere They want them. We know you're coming. We'd love to have you Hopefully maybe and Time tomatoes are ready to sucker. We won't be wearing masks Right, right We're here to see each other, you know Thank you guy All right. Thank you Guy on the Can you hear me? This is martin. Yes. Yeah. So part of this air grant was was the hoop house also And to see if you can extend extend the season on the tomatoes It sure was They helped pay for that high tunnel And that one there we've got a few high tunnels that one's that's just a 48 footer Usually I think on research they kind of go with the That size seemed to be more common than trying to get a hundred footer because don't really need a 100 foot maybe for a research And you need more than you know a 20 footer. So it's kind of seemed like that 50 foot's kind of a A good recommendation for when you do that We we actually put that one up ourselves. So you know, I kind of counted as some of the labor for the grant Yeah, if you did go look up and there's a quite a bit of information On our grant. I mean if you went to 2016 Farmer Rancher Grants and look Ohio, you would find us in that you could see all the The grant proposal we wrote up and then our You know research at the end how we wrote it up and a few days we hadn't things like that but Really other than writing a grant and Wasn't much more than what we're doing already, you know, unless you were sort of an organic you're doing daily logs and You're keeping lots of paperwork anyway. So really Was it much a traditional labor on our part? Right, I guess if you were going to put them directly out in the field that you just risk in the length of the season, right? using suckers Right Frost would be your limiting factor on that I Yeah, depending on how big an area you've got to plant, you know, I mean we're kind of doing field production But I think if we did it in our form Thanks, you would try to set those As much as we could just because we'd already have early bites starting and that way we wouldn't want to start right next to them You know, we try to move them away Like I said, probably as much as you could so you wouldn't have that carry over Trying to limit that So what what fertilizer do you use when you did the suckers? We use pound I believe it's like a five four five or so Generally in a tunnel that size they only put down like about 50 pounds Then we you know, we added compost with that also It seems like it was kind of weird this year Uh, actually we only found two hornworms I don't know what happened But in the tunnels in the past we've had a worm problems in there We had had to use some bt in there and I've always been kind of surprised how like army worms and The hornworms get in those tunnels Uh, you know, sometimes I think they're worse than they are in the field Maybe just because you're in there with them so close or above your head But this year was um, I don't know. Hopefully it's the same next year But I think you're just kind of amazed to know worm problems I think the tournaments would be a good idea. Did you put any fertilizer mid? Mid season I know we didn't we usually have men just once We didn't know four years like a fish or like either You know kind of revisiting this project I think determinants if you had determinants and you did those it'd be very interesting because you might get a bigger flush of fruit Towards the end before frost then the end determinants kind of spread out the the yield So you might you know, because you're kind of bumping up against that frost even though they're in tunnels, you know I mean we get down to you know 26 or something we're pretty well done. It's like there's 28 at night. Like I said, we're in in bottom grounds We get frost a lot earlier in the fall later in the spring Uh, but you know determinants just kind of thinking off my head That might be a way to get a bigger push of a yield a shorter span than the end determinants Thank you