 The crisis rocking the People's Democratic Party may have worsened with some members of the National Working Committee writing to the national chairman of the party, Dr Yocha Ayu, and informing him of their decision to return the housing allowance paid into their account from the party's coffers. The development came a few days after a media report claimed that members of the PDP and WC were miffed over alleged depletion of a 10 billion Naira that the party made from the sales of nomination forms. Now, the River State Governor, Yesem Wiki, had also accused Yocha Ayu of collecting the sum of one billion Naira from an unnamed presidential candidate in Lagos. The report had claimed that Ayu, in a bid to pacify the National Working Committee members, paid the sum of 28 million Naira to each of the members. Joining us to discuss this is Katch Oninadu. He's a public affairs analyst and an economist. Thank you so much for joining us, Dr Katch. Thank you very much for having me. So here we are again, still talking about the ongoing trials and tribulations within the PDP. And this time is not about the Southern Cockers, but it's about monies being returned to the chairman. Explain to us again exactly what is going on here because Nigerians are a bit confused. Well, it started with a member sitting there to say that they have noticed that their accounts were credited with money they didn't understand arising from their complaints against the chairman. And then when we sat down and they sat down, they said, if money paid into your accounts, you don't understand this. Don't keep it so that it does not become a problem for you. So they made their reform yesterday and we're now beginning to find out that the chairman may have a lot more things to explain than what we're hearing everywhere. There have been accusations by people, especially Governor Wikia and others, that the chairman has proven to have been doing things that he shouldn't do, that the party's national secretariat pushed under construction has not yet been completed. So how come the chairman is sharing money instead of using such money to actually fix the national secretariat, which is an ongoing project? So those members were employed upon by those who knew to return the money. They returned the money yesterday and we want now want to hear the full details of reasons for such bribes given to members without requests and why the chairman did that. That's what we are at as I speak to you right now. But of course the party has come out to debunk this saying that there was no swindling or there was no money drama, per se. They were trying to say that this is all just made up. But then there are those who are saying that this is employed by people from, of course, the presidential or rather Governor Wikia's camp to sabotage the presidential campaign of Achikua Buboka and of course the chairman, Ayutcha Ayu. This has not to do with the presidential campaign. It has to do with Mr. Ayutcha Ayu. A lot of folks have claimed that Ayutcha Ayu should resign, that we believe him to be very corrupt, we believe him to be very fraudulent, we believe him to be on feet. So he says no. And we're now finding out that internally in the party there are those who also believe the same thing. And the national vice chairman and the different geophysical zones have now come forward to say that they have records where the chairman tried to bribe them to silence them in regards to a lot of things that the chairman have been doing that are simply unacceptable. So those reservoirs here are different. Let me give you a comparison. The other day on television when we are listening to Mr. Petobi, when they asked him about corruption, he said, look, and issues of corruption hold me responsible. I will deal with it. If I don't deal with it, hold me responsible. So now we're having issue of corruption in the PDP. We're now looking at what the party will do, what Mr. Ayutcha Buboka will do. If he says he reunified the party, how can you reunify the party if the party is currently divided? If there is issue of corruption, is he going to also cover it and accept them? The party is currently divided. We're asking that are you going, if Ayutcha says he's not going to go, we're showing him reasons why he should go. If he doesn't want to go, well, as you can see right now, the National Working Commissioner of the party is currently undergoing an experience and an infant. When they're going to have such a chairman, Ayutcha will resign and go if he wants to please. For the party to be together, right now, as I speak to you, our party splits into four different factions. You have the faction with Kwan Kwan Suu, you have the other faction with Mr. Petobi. You also have another faction with the Southern Caucasus, led by Mr. Wieke Anoudas. And you have the remnants with the chairman. And you know very well every house divided can never stand. The pity for today is torn into shreds of four different parts. And we believe Mr. Ayutcha Ayu is not fit to lead the party. And that's why we're asking that he resign and allow us chance to fix our party. I don't, I don't, I'm not sure, but I want to be clear from some of the things that you've said. First, you're saying that Atikua Buberka says he's uniting the party and he has to do something. But he's just a presidential candidate of the party. He's not the chairman of the party. Neither is he the National Working Committee chairman or whatever. So is it necessarily his job to unite the party? He's just one person. The party does have a leadership of sorts. Isn't that duty on the leadership to make sure that the party puts his house in order as opposed to one man who has a ticket and wants to run on the platform of the party? I'm trying to understand. Please make it make sense. Well, right now we've elected him as a, as our party's candidate and he's the leader of the party. Right now he's protecting Mr. Ayutcha Ayu. We'll ask him, give me reasons why Ayutcha Ayu should leave. But if he is defending Mr. Ayu, we're showing him reasons why Ayutcha Ayu is unfit to lead the party right now. We cannot be asking Nigerians to allow us to govern and all we bring is a leadership that's so corrupt, so dirty, that we can show reasons why the chairman is not fit to remain as chairman. We insist that he leaves. If he doesn't, you're going to hear a lot of things in the next 34 hours. A lot of folks will leave the party. A lot of folks may even do things that may not add or help the goodness of the party. Mr. Ayutcha Ayu is not fit to continue saying at his state as chairman of the PDP. We have said that he is very corrupt. The people have not heard or agreed. Today now you're having an internal implosion in the national working community. So if the end of this is this imploding, who do you want to lead? Mr. Ayutcha Ayu will insist truly we believe is very corrupt. If he's denying it, let him give us reasons why he's sharing this kind of money to members of the party when he's not been able to do a single thing. He's not purchased a single nail to add to the construction of our national secretaries. So since he came, all he's been doing is to use his chairmanship to pretend like the chairmanship is at all people's home. It's not a retirement benefit. No. Mr. Ayutcha Ayu should leave the PDP and allow the PDP to have peace. The PDP can hope that the United to go for campaigns with the chairman as bad as he is. Now that we've shown him internally why he's unfit to remain as chairman, the right thing for him to do is to go. Those who want to keep him there as chairman should see that if we're asking Nigerians to give us the strength to lead the country, we cannot lead the country with the chairman's estate. We cannot lead the country where the party is corrupt. We cannot lead Nigeria when we are this divided. We cannot lead Nigeria where we cannot stand together as one. Currently, under Mr. Ayutcha Ayu, our party right now is fragmented into two different fashions. Okay. Let me ask this question. Mr. Ayutcha Ayu is unfit to remain as chairman. You keep saying that if, since he doesn't want to leave the party, we're showing him why he should leave the party. So are you telling me on national TV that the southern khakas does have a hand in the trials of Mr. Ayutcha Ayu? Are you which hunting the chairman because you want him to leave that seat? The southern khakas are only presenting to Nigerians reasons why we think Mr. Ayutcha Ayu is unfit to continue to stay as chairman of the PDP. Well, now you've seen these present issues are coming from internally, from the National Working Committee. It is not the southern khakas. You're seeing this particular reform that was done yesterday was done by members from all across the country. The National Working Committee today is divided. And you cannot have a divided National Working Committee guide PDP towards election campaigns and victory. Mr. Ayutcha Ayu is not fit to remain as chairman. We've asked him to resign. He's not agreed to resign. Okay. Members of the National Working Committee are now beginning to tell the country and the world that Mr. Ayutcha Ayu cannot continue to leave them. And as an example, they have shown how very corrupt he is. Our national secretariat is not completed. How can Mr. Ayutcha Ayu be wasting our money? He's not contributed to buying of a single nail to add to the sustained construction of the National Secretariat. And he is sharing money this way. We cannot have this kind of corrupt men to sit as chairman. And I think we should go for election. Nigerians will not accept the PDP if we are this corrupt. What we already see now is, like you said, it's imploding from within. We're seeing a divided party. We're seeing different segments of the party. There are those who are on the governor weakest side of the divide. And then those who support Ayutcha Ayu. How do you think that this problem that the party is facing, this in Broglie, will rub off on the PDP going into campaign season and of course the elections proper? I mean, how do you think this will affect the party? Because it doesn't really look like Ayutcha Ayu wants to step down. So going into this season, what should we expect? Well, I don't know. It's right that the party is a broken house. The party is divided unless you remember a house divided cannot stand any house divided when challenge falls. We believe Mr. Ayutcha Ayu is not the right man to lead the PDP going into elections. We believe right now the PDP is broken. A house broken falls. No house divided ever stands as one. And we believe because of Mr. Ayutcha Ayu's bad leadership, the PDP today is so challenged that if we go to elections, we're calling to come at a distance. And we believe this prognosis you look at the Bloomberg poll, polls and polls, polls the PDP at the polls. And we believe part of these reasons is due to the poor leadership that we have with Mr. Ayutcha Ayu. Mr. Ayutcha Ayu is no good. And right now the PDP seems very unprepared for elections because it does not have a proper leadership at the top. Mr. Ayutcha Ayu remain as chairman makes the PDP look like a headless chicken. And we do not think it's proper that we go to elections looking like headless chickens. Mr. Ayutcha Ayu is so corrupt, we don't trust him. And when you now see inside the National Working Committee, the vote of no confidence. Quick, I just want to ask a question. Finally, many people have also accused the Governor Wike faction of courting the opposition APC and being allowed to or allowing themselves to be used by the opposition to scatter the party. Can you tell me that you and of course those of you who are in the caucus are not courting the opposition party being that you seem to be unhappy with what's happening within your party finally? Well, as you know, I am from southern Nigeria, so that makes me automatically a member of the southern caucus. I agree wholeheartedly with the demands of certain caucus that Mr. Ayutcha Ayu should resign and leave and allow somebody from the south to take over. Mr. Ayutcha Ayu right now is part of those who want to sustain the partisan in the PDP. We don't want that. We want them back to the party from the south to feel a sense of inclusion in the joining zone in the PDP. Are you courting members of the APC? That's a very simple question. Are you courting members of the APC? Are you in talks with the APC? This is an allegation I would like for you to clear the air on. Are members of the southern caucus eyeing the APC? Are you being used by the APC to cause trouble within the PDP as opposed to putting your house together in closing? Well, you should understand that the APC is in worse shape than the PDP. So you don't jump from frying pan to fire. The APC has explained to you right now its candidate is in hospital in Europe and we here is now wearing a catheter and you know what that means. That means he passes urine. He cannot stand erect without holding himself. So the APC is not an option. The APC currently is in tatters. The APC is currently is not even an option for Nigeria. We members of the southern caucus are simply trying to make our voice out. Please do not listen to social rhetorics and social accusations that we are in league with the APC. The APC is not an option for Nigeria. Okay. Well, Dr Katja, I want to say thank you. Unfortunately, our time is far spent. Katja Nunaju is a public affairs analyst and he's also an economist, also a member of the southern caucus in the People's Democratic Party. Thank you so much for speaking with us. Thank you very much for having me. All right. And that's it on plus politics tonight. Of course, it's the weekend, but we cannot leave you without giving you the highlights of all of the shows that we've had all through this week. And don't forget, tomorrow Nigeria will be marking its independence. What will you be doing? Don't forget to stay loyal to Nigeria. Go get your PVC and get ready to cast your votes. Come 2023. I'm Mary Anacorn. Have a great evening. So it is not sufficient for us to say that somebody who just came and you have not been able to examine him, you do not have his history and you will now say, okay, let us now ask this person because for example, like I just gave an analogy, you cannot give your death to a driver that you are not sure of his driving skill and you are not sure of his ability to navigate the road. And you can only know this via the experience that you have. And experience is what we have been talking about. We now have a candidate who has not even had an experience or is an history of one more standing in the party. So-called political party in Nigeria that has what they call is it all the cabals. The so-called political parties that before a new entrant enters into the political party, you have to go through some form of initiation or the initiation that you must know the person that knows somebody and knows somebody and all that the change continues. That cannot qualify as a political party. Political party remains a very good group which the citizens uses to enthrone or to extend their mandate to fellow citizens who will be in charge of the race of power and ensure that the so-called democratic people come to them. But that's not what we are seeing. They have even, the political parties in Nigeria, have even isolated Nigerians. They now have clique. Once it is, look at the board of trustees, look at those that are the officials, can an unknown person be elected to those positions? No, unknown person can be elected and especially and particularly with the so-called big political parties in Nigeria. Nobody will be as you are there. You cannot be elected except one of the so-called cabals that chooses you or has interest in you. Is that a political party? Citizens having the digital literacy to know what to share before you share, how do you confirm it? Every citizen needs to be fed checkers. We need to acquire a certain level of digital literacy that not everything that shines like gold is gold. I mean, not everything that shines is gold. I mean, the geometric expression. So what is important going to 2023 elections, people need to know that fake news will destabilize. In fact, I used this narrative somewhere. I'm going to put it now that fake news can burn down Nigeria. Beyond what you just talked about, just now, about the Photoshop, with a simple digital tool like Google reverse the message, you can easily discontinue that picture. But most people, because of the political sensitivity, because of their biases, because of their orientation, what we call confirmation bias. Once you don't like the candidate, you are tempted. In fact, you're not even tempted. You love it to share it. Not everything, because at some point, it is going to target your own candidate. And the way it is is to save any pictures or messages you receive on social media, but carry on WhatsApp, the E2E, the end-to-end description encryption. You need to ask the person who sent it to you. Excuse me, where is the source of this? Take the CNN, like that one that was trending. CNN is public. It's so global. Go on CNN and search and be sure that it's correct. And if it is fake, go back to the person who shared it and say, why are you sharing fake news? What's your problem? Advise the fellow, you are actually demarcating your candidates, where you try always to peddle fake news against your opponent.