 Good afternoon. Thank you for coming to the New America Foundation. I'm Peter Bergen. It's really a great pleasure to welcome Dowd Huttuck, who is a long-term friend of ours, my wife. Dowd was actually my wife's escort around SWAT during 2009 when the Taliban were running free in SWAT and kept her safe and for that I'm very grateful. And Dowd and I have known each other for several years and this is his first visit to the United States. His first visit to Washington and his first public event in America. So we're really thrilled to have him. Dowd is a veteran journalist in Pakistan who's worked for the Daily Times and the News, which are the two best newspapers in Pakistan, and now works with Radio Free Europe as a senior editor at Radio Mashal, which is their Pashtun service. He's a frequent contributor to the AFPAC channel, which is a something that the New America Foundation does in combination with Foreign Policy magazine. We're really thrilled to have you here today, Dowd. He's also the George Clooney of the Northwest Frontier Provinces. Good case you hadn't noticed. And sorry. And Dowd is going to make some remarks for you know, 10, 15 minutes. I'll ask him some questions and then we'll open it up to everyone here. So Dowd. Thank you very much Peter and New America Foundation for honoring me to address this house and thanks to my RFER colleagues for their efforts, organizing this event. And good afternoon to all of you. I would like to go through my writing because so that I may save the time and then I'll give more time to them for questioning and all these things. So as Peter mentioned in his opening remarks about my journalistic careers in the region about both Afghanistan and Pakistan and now in Prague based Radio Mashal, I would like to share my experiences and the very local perspective from the my coverage zones. But before going ahead with that, let me say a few words about Radio Mashal. This is a Pashtun language radio from Prague with nine hours live transmission from nine a.m. in morning till six evening Pakistan time. Radio Mashal target ideas are the people of FATA and rest of Pashtun speaking people and the purpose is to provide unbiased and impartial information to the people who are living in almost information darkness. This in our opinion can help the FATA people to have an understanding of the situation and decide what is going on and what is bad for them and what is good for them. In my opinion in the past few years, VOA, DIWA Radio and Radio Mashal did considerably very good on that front. Returning to my topic, Drones, Militancy and Negotiation, I would like to discuss all the three briefly and first I will go to the negotiation part. Of my piece, all of you are well aware of the situation and there is no need further explaining the fact that Pakistan and Afghanistan are so closely intertwined that anything happening on one side of the border is leaving its effects on the other. Seeing in this context, one can easily draw the conclusion that what is going on and what future scenario is building in Afghanistan will have its effects on Pakistan and what is happening to Pakistan will influence the situation in Afghanistan. For that reason questions are being raised about the peace negotiations with the Taliban, with the Afghan Taliban, I mean from the Pakistani side and the future of the people of areas where various Taliban groups are holding positions and in recent years those Taliban groups have proved more dangerous than their Afghan counterparts. The key question is what will be the future of Pakistani Taliban if the Afghan Taliban agrees to enter an agreement with the international community and the Afghan government? Too very common, but contrasting views from the ground. The Pakistani Taliban would lose the pretext to continue their fight mainly because their source of inspiration is the Afghan Taliban leadership and slowly and gradually lose their support base among the people of FATA and rest of Pakistan. But there is another view and against this optimistic view, this is very optimistic. There is another theory and that is the Afghan Taliban may propagate any future compromise as a victory, which could encourage the Pakistani Taliban to double their efforts to arm struggle for Sharia based system of government or some sort of share in the Pakistani government. Just on the lines is their Afghan counterparts will be getting in case the peace negotiations are succeeded. Still one more important question is about the very peace negotiations and the possible outcomes. Even if there is an agreement and the Taliban join the Afghan government and accept the Afghan Constitution, which seems unlikely at the moment, how it will affect different ethnic groups and their differences which are the products of decades of war? What will be the future of warlords? Who are as strong as ever before and still having strong support basis among their respective areas? Can the Afghan government and leadership would deliver better than now and till now, till how long the system could continue with a weak economy? Afghan army and foreign interference are other key questions. Excuse me. Now coming to drone strikes. The negotiation process has a connection with the drone strikes in Pakistani tribal areas. The strikes have no doubt eliminated some key Al Qaeda and Taliban operators and denied them the opportunity to run training camps or operate openly. However, it is also a fact that the attacks are being exploited by the militants and they are like-minded as well as some political parties to foment anti-Americanism and expand their support base among the Pakistani masses. Information from the ground whatever is available suggests losses both to combatants and non-combatants. Apart from their apart from the other parties supporting one side or another and the official viewpoint, the tribesmen mostly those affected by the ongoing militancy, military operations and the drone strikes, won't an end to the war, be that through peace talks are use of force. I would like to use this opportunity to dispel common perception about the tribal people that they don't want change, are they are against development and reluctant to send their children to schools and instead like to be at Madrasas to make them jihadis. I'm saying this on record that the vast majority of tribesmen are in favor of education for their children mostly boys and a little less percentage regarding girls education. They want political reforms in their areas and they want political activities. They want development schools, health facilities, better communications and access to information and here I would move to the last point of militancy. There is very common view where poverty, illiteracy, social injustices and backwardness are mentioned as some of the key reasons for the spread of militancy in the tribal areas and risk of Pashtun parts of Pakistan. No doubt those are some of the reasons, but one can question that the level of poverty, illiteracy, backwardness was higher in 30s, 30, 40 or 50 years ago. But the tribal areas were never seen posing threat to peace in Pakistan or any other part of the world. The tribal people might have their internal fights, they might have their internal feuds and they might have their arms, their love for arms, but all this was restricted to their communal life and that never came out to disturb peace in the rest parts of the country. Much so even during the Afghan jihad when the gun culture spread to many parts of Pakistan alongside the tribal areas and the Taliban regime, the tribal people stayed quite peaceful. But comes 9-11 and the tribal areas started becoming the heart zones for all types of militancy. Isn't it better to blame the policies of the success of governments for the present state of affairs of the tribal people who I may say were made to support militancy instead of directly blaming them, means instead of directly blaming the tribal people. To be brief the options for the government and the international community are very clear. Tribal people want to be part of the mainstream. They are as social as people living in other parts of Pakistan. They want positive change in their life. They want education, health facilities, roads, dams, jobs and so on. Unfortunately, nothing of their sort is very well on the ground and the social status of the tribal people is rapidly going down mainly because of the ongoing militancy operations and displacement from their areas. Their houses are destroyed, their children are living in tents in hot summer and cold winter and the displacement snatched from them the meager resources of their income, whatever were available in their respective areas. I don't believe someone can expect a positive change in this situation. Last word, the world and the government in Pakistan needs to focus on their genuine needs and demands instead of making them scapegoats in this anti-terror war. I know I left many unanswered questions and I leave it to my audience. They can ask and I would try to the best of my ability to reply to your questions. Well, thank you, David. A couple of things I just wanted to mention about David's biography was born in Ashwara in what used to be the Northwest Frontier province, which is now Kaiba Pakhtunwa and has spent much of his career in Peshawar. He wrote, I think, the best paper on SWAT for the New America Foundation, what happened in SWAT over the last two or three years. Also, I think quite unusually for a Pakistani journalist, he worked for Pashwok, the Afghan news service. I think it's very unusual for Pakistani journalists to work in Afghanistan. I can think of perhaps maybe one or two. So just in terms of some questions that I had, David, the first one is basically in the coming election, do you think ordinary political parties as opposed to religious parties will be able to campaign in the tribal areas and do normal political activities? Because I know that they've been banned for many years from doing that. Yeah, after years of living under the frontier crimes regulation under which the political activities were banned in the tribal areas. Now finally, in 2011, the central government of Pakistan extended the Political Parties Act. And for the first time in the history of Pakistan in the upcoming general election, which is scheduled to be held in March, somewhere in March 2013, the political parties will be going in the tribal areas. But as for your question, looking at the security situation in all the seven tribal districts, it seems, if not impossible, so it seems difficult for them to continue their political activities in the tribal areas. Yes, the ground is quite favorable for the religious parties. But when I'm looking at this political situation in Pakistan right now from here and when I was there last November, so the political parties are also one way or another. They are trying to extend their branches to the tribal areas and hopefully there might be some political activity, but not on that level as it will be or as it is happening in the rest of Pakistan. It will take a little more time and a little more security measures to ensure that political activities are taking place in the tribal areas. Do you think it makes sense for the tribal regions to become part of what used to be the Northwest Frontier Province, now Kaiba, Pakhtunwa to make them all so that they have the same rights that everybody else in Pakistan has? And there isn't this artificial sort of distinction? Yeah, recently this is a very interesting debate after the extension of this Political Parties Act in Pakistan. This has become a very interesting debate. Some of the tribal, you know, very encouraging thing is coming forward. I would like to add a few more words. Sure. The tribal political parties are taking shape now after the extension of this Political Parties Act. New tribal leaders are coming forward, mostly from the younger generation. Are they sort of secular nationalists or what are they, what is that? If they are not secular nationalists, at least they are not religious parties, they are not attached with religious parties. They are somewhere in the middle. So these people are coming forward and now a debate is developing that whether the tribal parties should be part of Kaiba Pakhtunwa or it should be a separate province. Then the Awami National Party, which is now in government in Kaiba Pakhtunwa, it is in support of merging the tribal areas in the Kaiba Pakhtunwa to become a separate province. Although there is some support from the tribal people, but still a large number, I would not say more than this because no one can say for sure that exactly how many people are supporting this. But still some of the tribesmen and the tribespeople, they want their separate province. Although there are some technical province for having a separate province for the separate province, making Fata a separate province. There are like some technical provinces, for example, the tribal belt is like, it's a long line. It's a curve line like this, a long curve. And if you are making it a separate province, so they are thinking that what can be the center for this long curve? Where can we establish? Because the most developed tribal district is Kaiba tribal agency. But coming someone from south or north was the restaurant to Kaiba tribal agency. It will take him a long time and a waste of time and resources and everything. Now all these things are being discussed and still it is not clear what will be the future of the tribal areas. What's your assessment of Pakistani military activity in the various seven tribal agencies? I mean, obviously in 2009 the Pakistani military delivered a defeat to the Taliban in Swat. A defeat to the Taliban in southern Waziristan. Have those defeats sort of held and how would you assess operations in Kaiba, Mo Man, Bajor or other places? That's a very good question because I was in the middle of some of those operations when I was covering particularly Swat and this is the last operation in October 2010 in south Waziristan. When I'm looking at the operation in Swat, the situation was really very bad and I think everyone sitting here who is following the situation there, they might know about what was going on in Swat because Taliban led by Mullah Fazlullah, he's also known as FM radio, FM Mullah because of his FM transmissions. His men captured the whole of the almost, he paralyzed the whole of the Swat machinery, the administration and when the Pakistani security forces acted against him, so they were successfully expelled from the Swat region. Although the tribal, the Mullah Fazlullah, miraculously he escaped the military operation and now the Pakistani side says that he is somewhere in Qunada or Nuristan province of Afghanistan. So far the Swat operation is concerned, it was really very successful and the Pakistani security forces did really very good job at the expense of a lot of lives and financial losses. South Waziristan is also successful to the extent that the clear phase is already there but there is clear hold and then handover and then after the handover I would say that there is a rebuilding phase. That is the more necessary thing. When I'm looking at Swat, clear is okay, hold is okay but it needs, there are some things need at the rebuilding phase because the rebuilding process is there but it is very slow and now it is the, I would not say this is the job of army, this is the job of civil administration to do the rebuilding phase. In Waziristan they cleared the area and the Taliban they fled from and they dispersed in different areas and they are still holding it but the people are still displaced. They are living in tents since 2010 in the nearby cities are on the periphery with South Waziristan and North Waziristan and they are unable to return to their houses because they have not trust in the peace process and they are fearing that someday the Taliban might return into their area. So this operation I would say this is partly successful although I would again say that they did a very good job because they are looking at the terrain in South Waziristan and then conducting a military operation against an enemy which is local and which is sitting there and which has support both bases from some of the local people it's really difficult. There are other operations, I would not go for an operation in Bada tribal region which is going on since 2007 and still it's a tiny region though very difficult but the people are displaced since 2007 and they are living outside the area, the people are living under curfew. So somewhat this operation is a kind of failure, Pakistani security forces might have their own reasons because they are saying that they have lack of resources and they are far stretched, they are too much far stretched and their forces are engaged on the border and different tribal agencies like in Moman and Oragzai and in Khoram tribal agencies there are sectarian clashes. So I would say they did a great job but still more is needed to ensure to get the confidence and to get the trust of the people in the security forces and so that the people believe that well peace is returning to their areas. What kind of military operations are the Pakistani military doing in north Waziristan do you think? In north Waziristan I would say military operation is not going on there. The military is present there but they are in a sort of an unwritten agreement with some of the Taliban network not with all of them because after expulsion from south Waziristan these Taliban groups they dispersed into different tribal areas because after the south Waziristan operation some of them spread to Oragzai agency, some of them spread to Khoram agency and then the Kani network as you said it is already there in north Waziristan agency. So I would not say that they are in a kind of agreement but as we are following all these things so we can say that at some point somewhere at some point there is a kind of complacency which is showing and like a direct action is not going against the Kani network. Because they would be too hard to take on because? Of course they are very strong and their network is there since 2001 so at a time Pakistani security forces and their government also have a valid point because at one point taking on all the Taliban groups in south Waziristan and Khabar and Muman then in other parts and then you are taking on a strong network like the Hakanis of course it is a little bit different. We have got 150,000 US and NATO troops in Afghanistan and they haven't had total success against the Taliban so I think the Pakistani argument that they are stretched thin has some merit. Let's throw it over to questions. If you have a question can you raise your hand wait for the microphone and identify yourself? My name is Manik Sirajak but I am a journalist. We turn the microphone on. Can you hear me? I will speak loudly. Go ahead. My name is Manik Sirajak but I am a journalist from Balochistan currently working with the National Endowment for Democracy has a Reagan and Faisal Fellow. My question to you is about the future of the TTP and also about the future of Al-Qaeda in the region. Considering the fact that the entire concept of jihad mustroomed in the 90s because they looked at the disintegration of the Soviet has a defeat of the so-called infidels and right now again there is a debate over the American defeat in the region. For instance they look at America withdrawing from the region in 2014. Now has he talked of like negotiating with them or in terms of giving them a pretext? In 2004 they had an agreement with office Bahadur. Then they had an agreement like with Nek Muhammad and even the Pakistani government like granted them amnesty. But we realized that even neither talks succeed with the TTP nor can the Pakistani military defeat them in terms of applying military strikes consistently. So how do you see the future of TTP? What will TTP suffice with? And secondly do you think with the end of Bin Laden it's the end of Al-Qaeda in that region? Thank you. So the question is essentially that there have been a number of peace agreements with the Taliban in Pakistan before all of which they've basically abrogated. Thank you Siraj. And I wish to clarify one thing because I did not say that talks with the Pakistani Taliban when I was seeing their talks with the Taliban so I meant their talks with the Afghan Taliban because in Qatar, but I'm coming to your question, in Qatar talks are going on with the Afghan Taliban so my point was that if these talks succeed or if there is failure in these talks so what will be its impact on the Pakistani Taliban? But I'm coming to your question anyway. For Al-Qaeda I will say something but I think I would refer it to Peter because he's expert on Al-Qaeda. But I will go for that. For the talks with the TTP, first of all TTP is not a tight organization with a full organized control and having a very strong leadership. If you are following the news only yesterday, I think on Friday there was a statement from the Tehrik-e-Taliban spokesman, and he said that they have expelled the deputy chief of the Tehrik-e-Taliban, Fakir Muhammad, who does not belong to south or north Waziristan, he is not a Masood or he is not a Wazir, instead he is from Bajor tribal agency. So he was expelled from the TTP. This is showing a kind of rift among the Taliban and even today he was interviewed by Reuters news agency. I was reading a news while I was coming here so I saw a news and Fakir Muhammad told the Reuters news agency that I am still in support of talks with the Pakistani government. I think TTP is managing itself. If you say something, if you make it very like, it's not so simple to say that this is the ISI and this is the Mullah Omar thing. They may have some kind of inspiration and they may be getting some support at some level from some people as former president Parvez Musharraf said on record that they might be getting some support from some retired army officers or something like that. But so far I cannot say and I am not in a position that it is directly supported by the ISI or directly supported by Mullah Omar. Yes, from Mullah Omar they are getting their inspiration but they are not part of the organization of Mullah Omar. They are not part of the Afghan Taliban because their agendas, their works are totally different. The Afghan Taliban are not attacking the Pakistani security forces. They are not attacking the Pakistani installations but the TTP people, they are going after the Pakistani security forces. Secondly, you will never heard that after 2005 or 2006 because I was there in Afghanistan and you will never hear that after 2005 or 2006 when Mullah Omar declared that you are not going to destroy schools. Then destruction of schools was totally stopped but you can see in Pakistan 1300 schools were destroyed in Swat district in less than 4 months. Dozens of schools and I would say scores of schools were destroyed in Khabar tribal agency, in Muman tribal agency. So, they are different from each other. The Pakistani Taliban are using their Afghan links. Mullah Omar is a predicts to draw support from the people and they are saying that well there are NATO forces, there are American, they captured Afghanistan, this is a Muslim country and we are going to wage jihad against them alongside the Afghan Taliban and we are part. This is why they are getting the support. When I presented two theories before that when I said that one theory is that if there is a sort of compromise there is a sort of settlement in Afghanistan so the Taliban will automatically lose their support base in Pakistan because right now they are using this predicts that we are going there and we are fighting our jihad against Americans and blah blah blah or NATO or ISAF troops. Coming to Al-Qaeda, I think after the killing before the killing of Osama bin Laden, Al-Qaeda network in Waziristan was already on the back foot and I would not say that there are no civilian casualties in the drone strikes but I would give my credit to the drone strikes because they did the job up to some extent against the Al-Qaeda figures and after the killing of Osama bin Laden their morale has further gone down and in the cities the Pakistani security forces are tracking them and if you go through the past history you will find that a lot of Al-Qaeda leaders were arrested from Mardan, from Faisalabad, from Karachi, from Rawalpindi from different cities and the Pakistani security agencies arrested them but the drone strikes did their job in the tribal areas which are difficult for the Pakistani security forces to reach there so my conclusion will be that Al-Qaeda is on the back foot but they're as much strong as it was a year or two or three before. Doug, perhaps you could talk about the TTP which of course is the acronym for the Pakistani Taliban give us a sense of who their leadership is to what extent they are under the command of control of Mullah Omar you said that he provides inspirational leadership how many men do they have, what are their competing agendas some have done peace deals with the Pakistani government not give us a sense of their strength and their weaknesses As for their strength, the TTP, the total number of Taliban I would quote the figures of 2008 though no one can say for sure that this many figures this many Taliban are there this many because they are also switching sides they are changing, someone are stopping fighting because no one can say that this person is a Taliban and this is not a Taliban and then the tribal areas are inaccessible one cannot reach there so it's really very difficult to get the exact information but while I was in Peshawar in 2009 and I was writing something so I talked to an expert on these Taliban Brigadier Mahmoud Shah I was sitting with him and we were discussing something and he presented me some figures that the total number of these people it is 2009 figures, the total number of these people including the Al-Qaeda figures including the foreigners, Chichans, Uzbeks, Tajiks, then from Chinese sides and from the Pakistani Taliban the total number he mentioned me 12,000 seems low yep, it is because the Haqqani network has got to be several thousand right there Haqqani network, you see Haqqani network is not their base is there in North Waziristan but they are going forth and big and sometimes one cannot differentiate what is the difference between Afghan Taliban means those who are under Mullah Umar and the Haqqani network they are mixing by the way I want to just throw out an idea this idea of the Afghan Taliban I think we should sort of abandon it I mean every Taliban leadership figure lives in Pakistan they don't recognize the border I mean it is a distinction that works very well for the Pakistani government to say that there are these different kinds of Taliban there is the Afghan Taliban at the end of the day this is a really Pakistani phenomenon and we are kind of buying into some I think an artificial distinction I mean obviously there are differences but the Afghan Taliban doesn't really live in Afghanistan the leadership is all in Quetta or Karachi Well, Taliban, I would agree with you Taliban are Taliban but then the Pakistani side and the Pakistani media are using this name of Pakistani Taliban for them and if we look at the situation so there was no Pakistani Taliban before the 9-11 or before the situation right now what is happening in Afghanistan these Taliban emerged after the the attack of the invasion of Afghanistan and then they formed their groups and then in 2004 or 2005 they formed their own 2007 correct me if I am wrong but it was 2007 that they formed the Umbrella organization and they named it as the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan or TTP is for the border so yes they are not recognizing the borders but then the Afghan Taliban are recognizing the border they are not crossing into Pakistan yes for their shelters and for their houses but they are not waging their jihad in Pakistan so far only their focus is on Afghanistan they are coming for rest to Pakistan and they are staying there maybe they are having their places there but still they are more focused on Afghanistan as a reporter reporting on the Taliban do you talk to Najibullah this Taliban spokesman who do you talk to to get reliable information who does Radio Mashal talk to in terms of like getting confirmation of what the Taliban are saying or doing are you reading their websites what is the useful source of information actually we are not directly talking to any Taliban leadership or any Taliban spokesman or anyone yes Taliban are not their Taliban which were in 2001 or before 2001 they have their Twitter accounts they have their Facebook and they are following the media within seconds if you publish something do you find the Twitter stuff to be accurate the stuff they are putting out even we are not using their Twitter stuff we are not using their Twitter stuff but just we are getting an idea what are their views and what they are saying about this particular issue and this particular thing so how do you get confirmation about let's say there is an attack somewhere in Pakistan by the Taliban do they usually take credit for these attacks Afghan Taliban are not calling our reporters but the Pakistani Taliban did so they will call you they call our reporters and they say that we are claiming responsibility for this attack and one final question before we open it up it seems that the level of violence in Pakistan is really kind of declining pretty sharply I mean the number of suicide attacks is down somewhat significantly why do you think that is the case if you compare it to 2009 yeah of course if we compare it it was horrible 2009 was every second day our third day there were attacks and there were a lot huge number of casualties both civilians and militaries it was the year when even the Pakistani GHQ the military headquarters was attacked in Rawalpindi so if we compare 2009 with 2011 and 2012 so yes I would say that there is considerable decrease and but right now only a week before something suddenly flared up in Peshawar and one attack another attack and then the FC personnel were kidnapped and they were killed so kidnapping and FC personnel 5 for 15 20 frontier corps personnel and then kidnapping them and then killing them so on one hand this is showing signs of Taliban weakness or they have been weakened by the military operation for example Swat was cleared of Taliban Bajor Fakir Mohammed is already in talks or at least he says that he is in talks with the Pakistani Pakistani government so he is not staging any attacks he is not carrying out any attacks in Moman the Pakistani security forces conducted some operations and the Taliban were already weak there and they are now on the back foot where they are in Oragze I will come to Qurram tribal agency Taliban leader Fazil Saeed Hakani he was part of the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan but he defected and he announced his own group Tehrik-e-Taliban Islamic Pakistan TTIP so this again another blow to the Taliban so far they are strong somewhere in south and north Waziristan agency it shows that it shows the weaknesses after the military operations and their command and control structure is a little bit disperse and this is why they are not carrying out that much organized attacks is they used to carry out in 2009 or in the first half of 2012 would you go ahead actually one last thing the Punjabi Taliban who are they, what do they do well the Punjabi Taliban this is becoming very like attractive terminology now in media they are mostly groups they include groups which were at one time Kashmir focused then there were some sectarian groups like Sipahi Sahaba and the Kashmir focused group like Jeshi Muhammad of Molanam so is it kind of like an umbrella term that the Pakistani media uses for these groups or is it something different no it's different but collectively they are called the Punjabi Taliban and this terminology mainly came out from Waziristan because the people used to call them Punjabi Taliban the rest of the Taliban were Pashto speaking and they were Urdu speaking so they used to call them Punjabi Taliban and it came out and slowly slowly it reached to media and they used to as Punjabi Taliban wait for the microphone Aileen Sereo I'm really very interested in going back to the point you made in the start about the fact that there's no you know the borders are not of course I recognized all the and at the same time what we're seeing is in some ways a dissolving of the ranks of the Pakistan Taliban but it seems to be flowing into other organizations they've just mentioned the Punjabi Taliban and it's becoming, it's sort of morphing into things and so as we see things ebbing and flowing in Afghanistan towards two steps forward one step back towards a peace process which we hope will eventually be seen at some level in some way and the established vision of what was the Pakistan Taliban now losing its original thrust to support and it's the Afghan Taliban do we see it being absorbed into efforts in Balochistan efforts in other parts of Pakistan to for groups that are looking to carve out their own interests for outside efforts that want to make sure that Pakistan stays destabilized how do you see this playing out so I mean I mean I guess one form of that question is could the Taliban be become part of the Balochistan resistance or is that unlikely as their power ebbs are there other ways in which their energies could be focused means on another areas like Balochistan or other parts well Taliban have their most powerful arms of support is their jihad and if you remove jihad from something so then people will not be certainly they will not be supporting the Taliban agenda and they would not be able to draw as much support from there as for Balochistan are some areas so this is a totally nationalist struggle in Balochistan nationalist fight in Balochistan and it is not related in any way to the Taliban situation so I think in back here coming back to the question of drones as you said the FATA people are quite fed up with the militants as well as what's going on with the drone strikes but in case they are which I'm sure they are fed up with the militant activities following their own social infrastructure there are they in a way pleased also with those drone strikes that they are eliminating these elements from within their territories do they welcome them in some way that they are sort of achieving the result that they would want that militants leave their areas so I mean the locals are they happy about the drone strikes is that the question right about the locals and their views of the drone strikes yeah the locals you know as I said that there are civilian civilian casualties and of course these drone strikes are fomenting some sort of anti-Americanism and it's providing a predicts to the Pakistani political parties and some Islamist to say that well a foreign power is here in Afghanistan and they are violating our sovereignty and our borders and they are conducting drone strikes so it's a kind of anti-Americanism is there and it's also giving some credence to the Taliban they had the agenda in Afghanistan and also against the Pakistani government but so far the civilian views are concerned I think the ground situation because no one can reach there so it will be a little bit difficult to say for sure that yes the civilians are totally in support of the drone strike or they are totally against the drone strikes but as far as I talk to some people for my own stories so some people are I may say a lot number of people that I met they say their drone strikes are okay and they are doing their jobs unless they are not targeting the civilians wherever civilians are targeted then the people are saying that these drone strikes are against the they are violating and about this I would go to another point this is my idea is that if the Pakistani government and the US government and since they have partner they have collision partners in this anti-terror if they share the correct information from the ground and if they release the names of the target of the drone strikes like this person he was a Taliban he was from this area and he was killed in that drone in this and that drone strikes once you are releasing the exact information to the people I think it will snatch the opportunity from some Islamists or political parties to say that well only civilians are being killed so I think people are in support of because people are also suffered during the military operation and obviously it's happening every year when military operations are being held so civilians are their properties are damaged and they are killed and this is happening in Afghanistan like we are seeing that all the times are sometimes the NATO forces in their air bombing they are targeting sometimes civilians sometimes the Afghan police so this happening in Pakistani side and this is also happening with drones but as for as they are targeting the Taliban the local people are happy with it yeah my name is Tara McElvey and I'm a correspondent and I'm the director of this week in the Daily Beast and you talked about the political parties and what they say about drones I'm wondering if you can tell us about Iman Khan and how he's used that issue coming to Iman Khan I was reading something about Iman Khan's speech at a public gathering and he was telling the people that 90% of the people who are killing who are being killed in these drone strikes are civilians so I would not agree with that statement but still it is because of the name of Americans and the drones the names of Americans attached to the drones it is providing a sort of support base for Iman Khan to say that well these drone strikes are violation of and not only Iman Khan other parties are also exploiting this situation in the name of drones Pakistan People's Party and this is the Pakistani style of politics even the Pakistan People's Party which is now in government if tomorrow it's going into the opposition you will see that it will be opposing the drone strikes but today they are silent and they are saying that well everything is going well so I would say that this is a sort of point for the political parties and not only the drone strikes but anything everything that is happening there they want to catch that opportunity and to use it for their political gains goodbye Tahagaia with the Pakistani American Leadership Center just from briefly reading the kind of introductory materials that they provided it seems that Radio Mashaal is you know provides fair and balanced news coverage do you think but from a US perspective do you think that the US should actually have some kind of debacleization message or should there be a message is there some kind of messaging to the Pakistani people that you think would be effective in terms of maybe winning some more support or doing some kind of debacleization program or even increasing the amount of awareness of US aid projects in Pakistan if you were to create a US message what would that message be and how would you get it out there Radio Mashaal you discussed Radio Mashaal like Radio Mashaal general proposition how would you is there a message that the United States can give to deradicalize Pakistan or make the United States more popular the United States can take beyond just providing fair and balanced news reporting well I think if you look at the park the history of park US relations so I would say unfortunately most of the time there were the military governments and they invested most of the time in military rulers like the last one was General Parvez Masharaf and he ruled for 11 years 10 years I would question that how much investment is made in the Pakistani civil society and the Pakistani political leadership I think the best strategy for the US would be this is a kind of suggestion for me because I don't know much about the US policies on their side but the best strategy would be to focus on the civil society in Pakistan because the civil society after this media revolution in Pakistan it's becoming vibrant and yesterday I was showing a news piece to Peter and it is really encouraging this is a civil society group they organized protest demonstration against some banned jihadi groups in Peshawar this is for the first time that I was reading this news item so if they can get a very good chance if they come close to the civil society in Kheber Pashtunkha in Punjab and in other cities of Pakistan and I think in this way they can spread and they can give a very positive message and in this way they can though it will be a long term it will not I will not say that it would be in a month or in a year but it will be a long term planning and it will show some positive results great any other questions what are you hello my name is Nasir Khattak I'm American from Pakistani origin concerned citizen it seems like there is a mess there in Kheber Pashtunkha it's confusion different groups mean Pakistani Taliban Afghani Taliban and we put these labels on all these groups which are not really organized and we don't even know the exact numbers and who's supporting who maybe they are foreign powers where are they getting financing from so it's a big confusion to me from just a concerned person there so it must be challenging how to sort through all those different groups in that situation the mistrust between the US and the Pakistanis the governments and how they are handling it how important do you think that is to solve this because for example if the drones strikes would be done jointly that would take away the sovereignty question and Pakistanis could take credit for it for example even if capturing of Osama bin Laden would have been done jointly that would not have started the current rift between the Pakistanis and the US so how important do you think is the trust and to build that trust between the administrations to tackle the challenges and how can we build that trust thank you confusion I think confusion is the main force in all these things no one knows what is happening there I think it's not true about Pakistanis sorry but about the Taliban who is supporting what who is doing what who is following home policy and where exactly they are getting their finance resources no one can say for sure that this is happening this group is supported by this one this group is linked to this one you often hear this in Pakistan about the foreign forces which is really a code for the Indians supporting the Taliban is there any evidence for that we have seen so far no evidence as for as Pakistan and India are concerned if there is some evidence against each other so they would instantly brought it to the media that well India is doing this so far no country Pakistan so far no one provided some although some during swath times I heard some spokesmen he was saying that well they are supporting they are getting support from India at their time but after that I never heard that it wouldn't make sense because the Taliban regard Hindus as you know the worst forms of heretics right yeah but Hindus are laying far away from they are on the other side of Pakistan and this is on the eastern border so it's a long distance for them to reach there right they are now focused on the near areas which is Afghanistan and so not about confusion I think no one can say for sure that why all this confusion is there I would excuse myself but this confusion is the real force of the Taliban because there is a circle after every circle and there is a shadow after every shadow you are always going in those circles and in those shadows is for the trust question of course if there is a trust both countries are partners in the anti terror war collision both countries like if something I said if something is happening bad in Afghanistan so it will it will definitely have its impact on Pakistan and we are seeing the same this is the 30 years of war in Afghanistan and we are seeing the same situation in Pakistan just go back to 80s and 70s and we are not seeing any kind of Taliban or any kind of militaristic activity or any kind of some unrest in the tribal areas at this level is it's happening now so they both of these being collision partners they need the trust they need trust of each other but in the past 10 years all the times this trust is receiving shocks and the last shock was in the form of my two incident in Ebatabad so I pray for the trust to be restored to the old level right good afternoon Urmila Venigopalan from Jains intelligence review my question is a lot of observers of extremist violence in Pakistan believe that the epicenter of militancy in the country is in southern Punjab and what we are seeing in the tribal areas is largely a symptom and that even if the TTP and other such groups if their potency eases over the next couple of years militancy will always remain a fundamental problem to Pakistan given the strength of the jihadi infrastructure in southern Punjab so I'd like to hear your views on that on that analysis of extremist violence in Pakistan thank you thank you in southern Punjab yes of course there are some jihadi groups which are mostly Kashmir focused they are operating from there and they are mainly exploiting the widespread poverty in southern Punjab and there are the sectarian groups they have their centers there and these sectarian groups are then going to DG Khan and all these mountains and they are having their strong basis and then again they are having their they are having their crop ready from the south Punjab district and then they are shifting them to south and north to be used as their sanctuary so I agree with you that the problem also existed in southern parts of Punjab you know these southern Punjabi militant groups is there any evidence that they are doing deals with the political parties there yeah I think last year there was some reports that provincial minister and Punjab he was it was reported in the media that his gunmen are from a banned militant organization and his name was Rana Sanawala I would quote him and it was reported in the English Pakistani media but and at one point the government of Punjab chief minister he asked the Taliban we are not opposing your agenda so why you are attacking us but to say that they are getting some support from them I think I would not say that they are getting active support from the government or Punjab or any but the Punjabi government isn't taking these groups on so far not right they are pretty large these groups yeah these groups are mainly in southern Punjab and they have their basis maybe they are stronger but the Punjab government you know political experiences these are always there in Pakistan so Punjab government might be thinking that it can create it can disturb situation for them particularly when the Pakistani elections are coming so any other questions over here my question is regarding the economy in the local areas how do you believe the people who are being radicalized in the area especially children in madrasas how do you think that benefiting the economy or helping via trade and industry in that area how do you think that would help or is that even like a goal in the short term economy in the whole of Pakistan are only in the tribal areas in the tribal areas of course one of the reasons one of the many reasons is the widespread poverty in the tribal areas the youths are uneducated the areas are backward I was saying in my initial remarks that over the years like from 1948 till now one cannot say that how many big hospitals are constructed in the tribal areas how many big road projects are existing there in the tribal areas you cannot say that there is a big project how many educational institutions are there like engineering universities medical universities nothing is there almost 7 to 8 million population there in the tribal areas and it is covering a long long distance so if all these projects were there I think it might have some it might have some effect and the situation would not go to that extent all this is one of the reasons I would not say that this is the man in the prime reason but this is the majority and improvement in economy it is one of the reasons any other questions a couple of questions on media in Pakistan what kind of what kind of media is prevalent in the tribal areas who is producing the newspapers the radio more generally can you reflect on Pakistani media in general here we talk about it is written with conspiracy theories what is the sources of this people saying that the ISI sees stories there Pakistani media is a reflection of the opinions of the populace or there is an anti-american sentiment within the journalists themselves that drives it that frames the United States for the populace general reflections on how the Pakistani media operates I would first go to the media in tribal areas in the tribal areas media presence is equal to none only two radio channels radio stations are there one is from Kheber tribal agency another is from I think it is from Mirali in Waziristan region whatever is produced by the radio station from in Kheber tribal agency it is given to the IS to the Waziristan radio station and it is releasing the same thing and these two radio stations are owned by the government it is under the government control so then there is a local media it is under pressure from the government it is also under pressure from the Taliban because they are operating in the heart of the Taliban and they cannot give reports or information and they cannot buy or start that is totally impartial or what is the demand of the tribal people regarding news and information and views so I would say that international broadcast in the past few years we radio in the past six seven years and now Mashal supported by Mashal they have almost 18 hours transmission in circle Mashal starts at nine and news till six when we are finishing then Diva comes Diva comes it starts and it continues till 12 in the night in this way they are covering the whole time and they are competing the TV they are competing the television they are competing the Pakistani newspapers and they are competing other media magazines and all these things so far these two international broadcast is their BBC broadcast it is only 20 minutes for Pakistan so I would not say that it is doing really very well BBC Pashto BBC Pashto yes Do you have a sense of how many people in the tribal region are listening to your programming or is it impossible to tell On the basis of our last service I would not I would be wrong if I caught some figure but it was some 8.4% people who are listening and in order to make our programs interact you and to invite the people to come and join us and have your voice in our programs because the FATA people they are voice lists they have no representation in the media because if there is no media then no one is going there to present their problems to the people we are including them we are making our programs interact you to include them and then they are sharing their voices with us they are calling us they are joining our live debates they are joining our feature programs and then our reporters are reporting on their problems so far these two radio stations are doing a good job recently only a month before I heard that someone has started a newspaper from south but you would be amazed to listen that this newspaper is reporting only cultural news why only for security reasons because if the newspaper goes here or there then there will be some sort of reaction so this is the situation media TV is for the TV like there is a kind of revolution and television in Pakistan but tribal people first there is poverty no one can afford to have a cable network then there is energy crisis in Pakistan no one can watch a TV for all the time then there is the Taliban fear because they are saying that this media and TV and television this is against Islam and you are watching all these things so then TV is also not there as for the rest of the Pakistani media and conspiracy theories I would partially agree with you that there are conspiracy theories and sometime there are rumors and in search of breaking news they are highlighting some issues which is no issue but they are making an issue of that I will tell you a joke because I was watching a TV and they were having live transmission on a buffalo it was filled in a will and they were having a live transmission on a buffalo that will a buffalo fill in a will and we are having our reporter is there on the spot and we are having a live coverage of it so it was very interesting but still I would come to the job of the Pakistani media of course it did a great job despite all these things despite all the negative things about the media it created a lot of awareness among the people although sometime it is misguiding and taking the people here and there but still awareness is coming in the Pakistani society about the governments, about their problems, about their rights, about women rights so I think and with the passage of time maturity will come as it is coming in the Pakistani political parties I think that is the biggest change in Pakistan in the last 10 years probably if you went to Pakistan 10 years ago you turned on the TV it was Pakistan TV and propaganda now I think there are 89 channels many of them anti-Taliban, many of them anti-American, many of them pro-democracy I mean there is a lot of and the Pakistani I think media itself is becoming much more mature there is some very good journalists in Pakistan it is not a quick process it cannot be possible if we say that well it will be in a day or month it is a slow process and it is a gradual process and if it continued I think to the point you have just made about the 8.4% it says in your piece here the high proportion of female there is a high proportion of female listeners what kind of questions do you get from the female audience what are their concerns what are their issues what are they voicing to you yeah we are we are framing our programs in a way so that it is of some interest for the listeners and for our target audience either they are female or they are male for example I will give you the example of our health programs Radio Mashal Health Program it is a live debate for 30 minutes we are inviting a doctor and he is telling the people about their health problems because in FATA in tribal areas I think many of you would know that what is the situation of health facilities in the tribal areas and then listening the voice of a doctor a doctor is speaking here a lot of people are calling us although the calls from Pakistan are very much expensive for them sometimes they are talking and the phone cuts up and we believe that well their balance was finished so but from that we have music program now in our health program we are sometimes touching issues which are taboos in the Prashtun society we are saying a woman is pregnant why should not you take her to a doctor instead of treating her at home and then these families the girls sometime they are calling us from we have calls we have record of our calls from our anxiety tribal agency we have record of our calls from the parts of Balochistan the most I would say the Bayquad areas and apart from that very interesting for all of you they are participating in our music programs my colleague Harun Bacha is sitting there and he can tell you better he is having a music program from for Mashal and he is a very famous he is a celebrity and he is having a program and some people are calling him the girls are calling him and they are asking well we want this song we want that song and there are very several other program we have our feature program for women specially for women for those women who are having some sort of achievement in their life its name is Palwasha means array array of light array of light and it is particularly focused on women and girls and recently in Pakistan Sharmin Ubed won the Oscar when she won the Oscar and just before winning her Oscar we interviewed her and we got a lot of comments and a lot of views from our listeners and we are again trying to interview her female literacy rate in the tribal regions is 3% which I think must be one of the lowest if not the lowest in the world so obviously being able to hear her radio is important any other questions well in which case we will thank Daoud for a very rich presentation thank you thank you