 We started by working with the children and tween workshop with the children and then involving the parents and what I expected to be the workshops to have a structure, it actually shifted by the reality of parenting and schooling. We ended up having interactions when you know doing drop-offs and moments that would only be feasible for them. It's a hard thing when you are surrounded by I would say notions of being an artist that you're supposed to always know and I have moments in which they would ask me you know for planning reasons where is that gonna be do you want to hear do you want something it's like no yet