 Okay, let's see if we can get this shit going. Much better. Hey, Reigns, what's up, Reigns? What's going down? Let's see if we can get Frank on here now. God, what a pain in the ass that was. I guess my riot seats account's been reported a bunch and isn't working anymore, correctly. Now we need to get nothing going. All right. Or maybe he's trying to go live on his, trying to figure this out. So, let me see. One second. I might have to pause it just a second. No problem. Can you hear me? I can hear you. Can you hear me, Reigns? Yeah. Okay, good. All right, Nopso, there you are. Invite. Going in. Should work. Can you not get the invite, Nopso? Just smooth as silk. Always. I don't know. Can no one else hear? Can anybody hear? Only one person's like responding about that. So hopefully. No, Nopso cannot join. Nopso, go do a live and we'll try to join that one then because there's some plucked up shit going on. All right. Nopso, anybody? I can't find, I don't get what's going on with it. Request to join, Nopso. I'm here. Ah, there he is. I have no idea what happened. We got a fucking show. Well, I don't know. My other account wasn't letting everybody join for whatever reason, so. Well, that was, yes, smooth as silk. Right, there you go. There you go. So everybody can hear. It seems like people can hear, so that's positive. Hopefully people pop on. Yeah, I don't know. It's the same, Matt, like without kids, can you, how many different pastel colors of headphones do you own? I own a few. I got a few pretty pairs of headphones. Because every week you're busting out new. No, these are old. These are old. I've worn these another week. I've worn these another week. New to me. And then I also have these for, these for. Indeed. So people are joining. It seems like, well, normally that was eight minutes of fuck up. Yeah, I don't know that most people are gonna know to come on this account to watch. So it may be a lower account watching, let's get this shit done. Is something covering your microphone? No, nothing's covering the microphone. Or maybe this is, maybe the mic's bunch of this. Is that better? That is better. Pick it up. It is better? It is better. So it's running a mic through this stupid thing. Okay, makes sense. All right. Thank you, thousand fold for doing that. All right, so today, this week's topic, we're gonna talk to our buddy, brings around his own anus. And we're gonna talk about farming in Mendo. You guys are old buddies. He's been in Mendo a few years longer. Comes from the Midwest. He's a stray nerd like us. And we wanna hear about his adventures in old Mendoville. So you wanna kick it off, Frank? You can introduce a decent product. Yeah, so, you know, when Matt and I were discussing like this whole podcast, like kind of the whole theme or purpose of it really was to sort of like share in a way how we talk amongst each other all the time. Like as we, you know, and bring a little bit of that to like the discourse or whatever, right? So, we're gonna talk about world problems. Yeah, we're gonna talk about my buddy. My buddy is one of the people that I've talked about all kinds of stuff for a long time. We live in the same small little town. We both come from the Midwest, like Homie said. He's actually been out here probably four years longer than me or something like that. So over a quarter century. And so we've kind of both seen, you know, like a lot of the different eras that I think people would consider. I don't know if you wanna consider them legendary or just old, but old, you know? But also when we were talking last show about like a lot of hobbyist breeding and a lot of multi-stage breeding and learning about your plants, rings is someone that has been, you know, basically when we, when you first got here in the 90s, that was the way. It wasn't a clone world. It was a seed world, right? Yeah. Yeah, I don't even remember any popular clones for quite a while. You know, when I got here, it was all seed. You'd hear about some indoors here and there. You'd see little batches of indoor here and there, but there was a couple lights, you know, little bits. Yeah. And, you know, so there's an aspect there where nowadays people view the kind of breeding like that used to be done around Mendo a lot just to have beans, something sort of mysterious, right? Well, you know, rings basically never left that era in the sense of he always, he has been breeding kind of for what he likes, plants he likes, things that interest him, you know, regular breeding, you know, feminized reversals or anything like that, maybe some accidents now and again, and just looking at what plants show you, right? So it really does tie in to what we've been talking about, but it also ties into like a whole era, like pre-215, you know? And even like after 215 passed, it probably took what rings like five or eight years? For, I remember like 2002, people feeling like they actually could lean on 215, even though it passed in whatever year. 96, yeah. Nobody thought they were gonna be able to grow in their yard and not get stucked with. Yeah. So they were still, you know, keeping it mellow, keeping it on the down low, but then some friends of mine let it rip, they just went for it, and cops came, people tried to rip it off, cops got called and the cops left the plants, and then we were, oh, it's a fucking green light. And that was a major green light. So that was great though. I mean, for the first time, we were putting them out in the sun and not worried and realizing the potential that a plant can get real big. So chronologically speaking, when you were in Wisconsin, what you were seeing out there was what type of strains, like mostly? Were you seeing the Afghanis proliferate out there still pretty heavy by the time you started? Yeah, I didn't really know. I knew a few, some of my older brother's buddies were growing little gardens in their apartments and whatever, but I didn't really know any outdoor growers there, but you'd see the weed once in a while come through. But it seemed like it was pretty standard, kinda Afghani, I mean, that climate back there, you are limited, you know. Yeah, that's true. You could do, so, yeah. Give us some strain names, man. What's that? What were you seeing in Wisconsin strain wise? People would say things like Ganeeth, I mean, it was simple. So basic not named, like, they didn't ever have a foreign name. You were just stoked if you got something that wasn't compressed. Yeah, right. And there was two kinds of weed, basically. There was green Mexican and brown Mexican. And the level of compression could vary widely. The best stuff was green and lightly compressed. Some of the worst stuff was incredibly compressed and very brown. Yeah. And strain names, I mean, you know, they just, yeah, I think maybe I'm speaking, but barely anyone knew what I was doing when I lived in Chicago and was growing weed. Absolutely. You were in a major populated area. I was in a rural area, it was all bad. You could, yeah. I mean, I remember just people hearing about my friends and I smoking weed and then one of my buddies got busted drinking and driving and when he was in the cops, they're like, we know you and that guy are selling weed and you know, I mean, it was like we were buying like a quarter ounce once a month and smoking it in one hitters. We were so far away, but I mean, we were like big dealers in our hometown because of that. Of course. People are asking about various imports. I can't speak for rings, but we both come from the Midwest. He's a little farther north than I was and he was rural and I was city, but I literally saw a Mexican and when the Grateful Dead came into town, there would be some kind bud. There was no Jamaican imports. There was no Colombian. There was no Thai. There was no anything named. There was Brown and Green Mexican. I remember I got Thai stick once and it was literally tied with a string on a stick. But I was very fortunate where I met the, I like to say the right dirt bag hippie biker types that were older and they weren't gonna smoke the worst brown weed. So they had networks set up somehow or whatever. I was at least getting like pretty decent green weed pretty much from the start. But that was, I mean, there was no weed scene in my high school. It was all just drinking and there was a couple of stoners, but there was no scene there at that time. It just wasn't. Do you want to go ahead? You moved from Northern Wisconsin to our neck of the woods, Mendocino County. Was it was it 94? 94. 1994. Right at harvest time. I had no idea what I was even getting into. I just knew one person came out here. Within 20 minutes, I was standing next to a pot plant watching naked girls swim in a pond. It was like walking right into a wet dream. I was already very into the hobby. I already had all the seed catalogs memorized because I was buying high times and stuff and I had grown a little. We've wired up a 175 metal halide. My friend raked one together. We had a few plants that I had saved some seeds from some decent weed and we grew them. Some failed attempts at growing some Mexican seeds or whatever outside that just went to shit. But yeah, I mean, it was very minimal before I moved out here. What was your impetus for coming out here? Just weed or what was it? I actually thought I was gonna end up in New Mexico. I kind of had dreams of desert living when I left there and I knew one guy here and he was one of my hookups for good weed and mushrooms, acid, whatever. He left. I saw him and he was like, I'm moving out to California. If you're ever there, here's my aunt's number. She'll know where I am. And I got a hair up my ass. I was like, I had been all over the country traveling with my family growing up but I had never been in California state line. So I just thought I'd swing through. But like I said, within 20 minutes all kinds of just to me unimaginable things were unfolding in front of my eyes. I was just like weird hippies. I grew up in a pretty conservative in a box type of place. There wasn't a lot of various lifestyle choices and diversity or anything like that. So it's like where I'm raised. I get it. This shit is entertaining right away. I mean, stories of weird hippies in the mountains and pagan groups and old communes. I was just like, fuck, this is entertaining right here. Pagan group, count me in right? And for me, Naked Girls are a big bonus. For Francis, it would have been the other. But I see why you guys are drawing that. So yeah, but I mean a lot of times people think when they hear Mendocino County because now it's super famous for growing weed. It's not that it wasn't famous for growing weed already. It's just that most people's like earliest memory of like Mendo now is the medical era. When you had like a leg to stand on and you could kind of, there was sort of a cat and mouse between things, but when we both first moved out there, it was a totally different world in the sense of like everybody that did it kept it pretty quiet. There was a number of people in town that had successful businesses and stuff that did it, but they kept real quiet about it. It was done in the hills. It was done tucked away. People didn't want people to know their money came from wheat. Yeah, but showing shit, yeah, not so and I were talking about the successful guys who were driving beat up old trucks. You would have never known. They weren't, there was no flash, that's for sure. Yeah, we were talking just the other day about it and there would be guys that like were worth a lot of money and their truck would be old and a little rusted and have a few dents or whatever. And then like they popped the hood and the whole thing is chrome and super cherry, souped up. They've got a souped up, like they've got great suspension. They've got all this nice shit, but it's like they could drive through our crap little town and look normal, right? Because nobody wanted to stand out. Nobody wanted to get targeted. And then even when 215, even when 215 passed, it took like he said, it took a number of years for people to get a sense of what you could do. Yeah, you know? Well, most of the people I learned from and were was exposed to, they were older already then and had been doing it for a long time. So they weren't, they didn't even have, they didn't even have a fancy engine in their truck. You know, they were just chill. They were just glad to be living up in the mountains and having a home and be hanging out and being more comfortable than a person working at one of the local businesses or whatever. They were living good. Even people got to realize too that Mendo was pretty famous for being a huge logging community, but that had sort of fallen apart in the 80s. And so I would classify it as pretty poor when I first arrived. Very poor. Very poor, very rundown. So like even having money was unusual. Like everybody that had money was from some established, well-known family that owned businesses in town. Yeah. You know? Yeah, there was hardly even any weed around here. Honestly, I mean, even though it was Mendo and whatever, it would run out. And if you were holding something decent, you were the man. I mean, there really wasn't a lot then. No. If you had two or three patches in the woods and you got away with one of them and you got 30 pounds, you were like loaded down with cash. You had a lot of loot. You had whatever you needed that year. You were doing good. You were stoked. 120,000 bucks and 94 would have been, that's like, that'd be like having 500,000 bucks now practically. Yeah. The prices were at that time for land and homes and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, those people, but yet they couldn't show it off. So it was kind of, you didn't really know who was holding. I mean, Notso and I were talking the other day and he met some guy that had copious amounts and he was living in a shack and walking around in his underwear all the time. I mean, It's actually like, I was telling him, it's probably like the wealthiest person in weed I've ever met. Like I'm not even exaggerating. He literally. I knew exactly who he was talking about. Yeah, he was the wealthiest person I think I've ever met in weed. And he had a bunch of huge scenes that I don't want to describe, but he had this like visqueen, like black and white poly shack that like stretched like in between the trees with rope, right? And he had a really nice like teak wooden table in this thing and he slept in it. And he walked around like he had a huge like multi-pack of tidy whiteies and it was hot up there. And he would walk around in his tidy whiteies and his boots. And he lived in a visqueen shack up on the rock. And he literally like, I mean he and he sold like unbelievable. I mean, he made so much money, you know? But it was just, that was his life. He ran various things. He didn't leave the hill. And it was just hot and he didn't like it. So he walked around and, you know, it almost think you'd almost think that like he escaped from like a mental institution. I can't, I can't blame the man. I walk around like that in my house. And I'm not. He too, I'm still, I'm carrying the torch too. But yeah, I mean in a way it's like if you busted that guy like. But you know, he had nothing, you know? I mean, he might own 15 properties and have like underground grows and generators and this and that and everything else. But it's like, you know, it's like if they came and tried to get him, it's like he didn't have sports cars. He didn't have a nice big house. He didn't have boats. He didn't have anything that they could find. Like, and that's kind of like what I was thinking about when you were talking about that rings was like the real old timers around here, they just liked to live up here and they liked having enough money. So they weren't poor. And they didn't. Yeah. They'd go on vacation. Yeah. You'd meet a lot of like parkour kids and they traveled the world and stuff but they weren't flashing anything else. Like that was like their luxury. Like their parents would help them travel. Or so that was like a, that was more like flashing wealth and Mendo kind of became more of a 215 era thing. Definitely. Definitely because you had a leg to stand on with your legitimate medical card to flash in the 90s, I think I would put it. It was unthinkable. I only know a few people that were probably dumb enough to flash in the 90s. And they ran some kind of Hollywood mansion. They're bringing actors in and out to show them their little tiny shit hole girl. I think one of them went to jail and had Woody Harrelson bail him out. That's the only people I could think of that were dumb enough to flash like that. Like bringing people into a mansion with grows. And yeah, it's not very common. One guy before I even moved here, I mean, they've had documentaries about that guy and I can't remember his name. He was one of the biggest importers in the country. He was bringing everything in through the bay and he built on Robinson Creek Road. He built this big mansion with like watchtowers on it and hidden rooms and stuff. And that happened before I got here. It was rural. Like his house was pretty hidden, but it was pretty extravagant. And he went down. He went down big and he's out now. He actually just bought that mansion back from this guy I knew who owned it. But there was a, maybe people should know that. Like, so when I first moved out here, I had my, I literally had like just like rings. I had one friend that lived a little north of Yukia and I was like sort of my landing spot where he got me situated in the community. And I thought it was gonna be a bunch of like grateful dead hippies, you know, and back to the landers. And like it was like, I was from the city and it was all these country people that lived clean and beautiful. And I got here and there was some hippies, but there was a lot of weirdos. There was a lot of rednecks. There was a lot of poverty. There was most. Meeting a person that like, like you that just seemed mellow and like nice and stuff was kind of rare. It was a rough crowd, a lot of it. I mean, the hippie side of it was pretty mellow, but I mean, most of it was pretty outlaws. I mean, as far as quantities went, those were people way out in the boonies and they had guns and they were, you know, I mean, tales of shooting at helicopters. And there was a lot of rough people out in the boonies growing a lot. There's always been a way where we'd allowed a certain amount of people that have like a lot of fucking mental illness, anger management and various other ticks to like survive well, but not have to like smooth those issues out. And so people were suspicious, you know, there's aspects of that, you know, in the sense of it was just very eye-opening. Like once logging left, this place was poor. And so not only weed, people think it was a weed mecca before the Mexicans took it over like Northern California was also like where lots of little batches of meth got cooked. So there was a whole underbelly of meth people and there was a little bit of a blending of the two communities, but not always, but you know, there was various motorcycle groups. There was all kinds of weirdos that owned land in the hills because it was not populated. Growing a lot of weed was always a lot of work. And I remember people way back then talking about like hiring methods because they would work. You just keep them high. They'll dig 200 holes in the woods. Yeah, then still all your shit when you're not looking. Yeah, I mean, maybe not if you had, I mean, people did things like tied mountain lions in the middle of their patch and chained them up to trees. I mean, there was- That checks out. The stories, the deep well of bizarre stories in this part of the world is it's troubling, funny, you know, very, a lot of disturbing stories, you know, it's, I mean, actually it hasn't been very violent around here the last few years. The murders, the partners shooting each other seems like it's really tamed down, finally. I mean, you know, there was an aspect where there's someone even older than us that I hope to be able to bring on soon that can speak of like the 80s. But by the time rings and I got here, you know, camp had been sort of hammering the county for a good 12, 15 years, right? You know, there was a lot of back and forth between that there was a lot of sort of secret society like people really kept to themselves. It was really hard to get accepted into certain groups. It was very, it was a little paranoid at a time. And then on top of that, you know, let's face it, right? Like, so you're getting $4,000 or $5,000 a pound for your weed and you have a whole bunch of money and it's dark and it's cold and it's Mendo and you're bored and it's winter. And so there was all kinds of scandalous, you know, substance use, some which was fun and some of which had negative connotations for whole little groups of people, you know? Yeah, I remember on some of the old growers I met when I moved out here, they were like, in the 70s or whatever, late early 80s, they'd be like, things started getting fucked up. They'd be like, that's when people started trading their weed for Coke. And then it became trading it for meth, you know? And it just started getting funky, you know? One of the first guys I worked with told me basically that exact story that when you get 4,500 or 5,000 a pound for anything that you grow that's decent, right? He said, you get bored in the winter and then the one guy gets a kilo of cocaine or something, right? And he goes, and he goes, then the problem is is five years later, everyone's feeding on everyone else. Yeah. You know, people are messed up, people are this, people are that. And when you got in trouble back then, you either went to jail for two or three or four years, usually, or you had to narc on your friends. There really wasn't a defense, you know? So there's an aspect there of like, you know, I mean, there's, yeah, there was, you know, there was, there was opiates, there was every problem you could imagine existed on some scale. There wasn't that many people, right? So it wasn't like it, but there was, there was partiers of all kinds and there was people that were definitely into a bunch of bad things. Sure. And, you know, weed was a way to survive. And so like maybe on a positive note, before we get too dark on that level, but it does set this, it does set the stage because I mean, I'll tell a very quick story. I remember like I was hiking with friends and we were up on this majestic trail and I was still pretty like new from, from the Midwest. So even just hills excited me, you know, like big expansive trees and stuff. And I'm like, I'm tripping and I'm like looking out over this thing and it's all beautiful. And I look down and there's like dozens of cars that people, it was like a spot that people drove up to. And just to get rid of their trash, they would push their car off the ledge. Yeah. And it would just roll down the hill and like the hills were littered with this shit. Yeah. I was amazed when I moved out here, like every time you found a beautiful turnoff to stop and look at the scenery, there'd be like just trash below you every time. Because a lot of the country people would just take their trash and drive and be going down the road at night and just bags of trash they would just throw out their vehicle off, off the hill. There's still people. So I was shocked because I thought it was gonna come out, coming from the city. I was like, I'm gonna come to this clean, pristine place, weed growing hippies, redwoods, organic food, organic food, all that. And that was all there in bits and pieces. Yeah. But there was all this other stuff that I had never seen. And it makes sense because that stuff really started stopping when the weed money really started changing the game to the point where there wasn't so much poverty. Yeah. Most of the houses that we bought or got into or the land was very cheap. Most of it was very rundown. People would do little indoors or do outdoors and they would end up fixing the bathroom, fixing the roof, putting on a deck, just taking like a falling down 50s farmhouse. Yeah. That they bought on a handshake deal and every weed crop improving it. Yeah. So many funky houses out in the country around here. Yeah, tons. I mean, now a lot of them are all fixed up and nice because it had 20 years of money coming in. Even if they're shitties still they're worth a ton of money at this point. It's true. But maybe we could talk about for a second just to go from like the ambiance of the area to like what were the strains that you were seeing when you first came out here? And then obviously like just so people know there wasn't a lot of names back then. A lot of individual families and friends had different seed lines. Maybe you could get a cockamamie story out of a few of them about what had happened in the past. Yeah. But everyone grew from seeds. So people got seeds from their friends and then every two or three years or something they'd be like, oh, I need some more seeds. I better like take some of these males in the bushes and pollinate some of my females. Yeah. So I'm a fresh stock. It seemed like a lot of like the ranches around here there'd be like a couple of people that were into making seeds and everybody else just got seeds from them. That was pretty common too. There was some people that were just into that side of it and everybody else would just go to them, buy starts from them or get seeds from them. That was pretty common too. There was still nerds back then before we came out. Yeah, there was. They were just harder to find. Yeah. And Matt and I have had a lot of experience too with like even people that we would consider to be nerds today. You ask them about specifics of when they were young. And they just don't have it. Yeah. Yeah. They just don't remember. It turned out good or it didn't. And even if it turned out bad, it was still worth the same obnoxious amount of money. You know, it's still all sold. Yeah, still. And that's one of the good things is it led to a lot of diversity. Yeah. Right. So I just want people to know before we start chatting about this that like lineage was often hard to come by. There was some like poorly sourced legends about a lot of it, but everyone that was growing weed had seeds. Yeah. And there was a lot of different hill seeds. There was a lot of different neighborhoods that had different seeds. Cause like Ring said, there'd be one or two guys that was like the neighborhood nerd and they would do breeding and then the friends would get seeds from them and stuff. And so there was just a lot of diversity. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of people just didn't even realize they could keep a male and make seeds and it wasn't that hard, you know? They just thought it was taboo to even have a male anywhere around, even though they could have sold their seeded shit for big bucks even back then too, as long as it was green and trim decent. You know, everything, it's just, that's just the way it was then. I mean, you can't say like, I mean, that's why like with being into the genetic side, it was like when you saw something good, it wasn't all the, it wasn't even that often, you know? So if I got something good, I would be like, where'd you get this? Can I get this? I don't care where these are, I'll drive anywhere to get these seeds. You know, just to try, you might go, you might drive up to Oregon to get some seeds and come back and pop them, they're all herms. You didn't, you didn't know, you know, so. Yeah, and most people didn't keep, most people didn't keep clones over the winter. So it was like people would pop a certain amount of seeds in spring and go through a process of sexing them and try to figure out how many they thought they could get away with. Yeah. And then plant females where they had to put them. I mean, even, I have a buddy who was telling me like even some of the first, like hundred lighters he worked at in Southern Humble, right? Indoors, they were like literally like they'd made beds on the floor and they planted seeds and they went in and they cut the males off at the base. Yeah. Because it wasn't, it wasn't a clone world yet. Yeah. So that's what they knew. Yeah, I mean, you hear a few stories like that orange thing you had. Yeah, the Jando, yeah. Being like an old clone that's super rare. I'm gone. Yeah, that's kind of unusual. Tell us about some of your first breeding projects. That's what I want to know about. I want to hear about some of these breeding projects. Mr. Reigns, what's some of the first stuff you worked with when you were actually like, I have a fucking goal. I want to, I want to end up with XYZ. Like what's some of the first stuff you worked with? Yeah, it was just looking at things like in the way they appeared. You know, at that time I was young and you know, dense and shiny was pretty desirable, you know, and it's funny to think back of how sometimes you'd see something great and you'd be like, oh, that stinks. I would never grow that, but man, does it smell good because you didn't want your shit found. So it was more about just like finding something that would come in before the weather that was chunky and decent to work with. You know, we didn't want sour diesel buds at that time. Even, you know, we didn't want to do that kind of trimming. So it was really about just making something that was decent to work with, not super needy too. Like you're sticking shit way up in the mountains and visiting it here and there. You're keeping a close, lengthy eye on everything. So you didn't want something that, like I remember the first time I grew like a skunk one type of thing. We put it up in the hills. Every time we went up there, it was fucking yellow. It just wanted shit. You know, some of the stuff we had going would be dark green and happy with virtually nothing. It would do all right. I mean, the plants weren't big. They didn't need a lot because we weren't growing these monsters. They were quarter pounders under the, in the bushes, you know? Yeah. So they didn't need a lot. We would just bring a bag of backwondo up in the hills and some water holding crystals and hope that things went all right. You know. These things could be a dream, dude. Water crystals used to be huge. Yeah. Because you weren't able to get to your seed. Because most people hiked into their site and it was far enough away from your house or it was on a- It was a safety net because if you only went once a week in your little water line, something, an animal fucked it up or something and they went six days without water in 105 degrees wasn't cool. I mean, we- I've said this before, but there's a, there's a big like ag store, I guess you'd call it, garden store in Willets in Mendo called Spare Time. And they used to have, you used to walk into their front door and they would have them, you know, they would have a six foot tall stack of cases of camo spray paint. Yeah. Because what he was just saying is if you use soft poly, the rats, the wood rats, various other critters, they'd smell the water and it's so dry. They'd come and they'd chew through your poly to get- I fucking hate rats. To get water and then all of a sudden your plants aren't getting wet, you know? So people would use, some people would use PVC, but then it was white. So you need to just spray paint it to make it look like the ground cover. Yeah. Right? Before you put it together, because otherwise like, you know, and then they couldn't, they could smell it, but they couldn't chew through it. Yeah. It was amazing how, how camp was back then too. Like they would find, like they took their time and scan the hills so closely, they would find like a few little plants in the bushes. They'd take their time and just work areas. I remember diving in the bushes when I first moved out. I thought it was cool as fuck. Like, oh, the government is trying to find people like us. We're diving in the bushes. And I thought that was cool as shit. Yeah. That's pretty punk rock for helicopter shit. I mean, there's an aspect too, people don't get, that's why like. Everybody take a shot every time, not so says aspect. You, I saw you in the first game. You, people would hide them in the trees, like on little, on, on, I never did that, but I had friends who would put them on, on, you know, raise platforms in the trees because the helicopters, they'd be looking at a certain line and they a lot of times their eyes would miss it or they'd put them along the line of a tree line or manzanitas, you'd hollow out branches and you'd still leave the top cover and hopefully they would make it, but they were after it so hard, you know, you really had to be careful and then you would take different ways to get to your spot often. Like, it's not like you drove your vehicle there or you drove your ATV or whatever. You didn't even want to walk the same pathway because they'd see the path from the air. So you would take different routes to get there and get in and get out, you know? Yeah, you'd walk on the animal trails real carefully to not make them look weird from the air. Yeah, it was fun to try to camouflage things and it was fun to be a little ninja. I mean, we weren't even doing much, it was just worth something and really we were just into it. You know, we were into the plants, we wanted to have some, we were willing to hike up mountains to get a very little bit, you know? Y'all are fucking nuts, dude. I can't take that kind of heart trauma, like going up and watching like, you know, eight of your big fucking rips, like you plant one for these, plant one for pigs and plant one for you, like that's not theory, fuck that! I mean, that was so traumatic. There was an aspect, even in spring, when you're like setting it all up, that's when you're digging your holes or you're bringing in your, if you're not using the earth there, that's when you had to hike in your soil. You had to bring in your amendments so you could feed, and even if you were using native earth, it was hard to feed on nothing, run your water lines, maybe drill a spring, and then you're crawling in the bushes, carving out little spaces for your patches. That whole drill of spring, like people my age, like from California, we don't even get what the fuck that means. Drill a fucking spring? What does that mean? Put in a spring box, so the spring collects water in the spring box, and then run piping from that box, sometimes hundreds of yards, especially if you're downhill, you would try to find- You use water-witching shits to find springs, how do you do this? I mean, there was little springs on properties, you would like build a box, and then just rig up a pipe going out the end, it would collect a little bit and just slowly trickle. I mean, a lot. Sometimes we had them feeding little tanks or something, but because you needed springs, because it's not like you could put in a well, because even if you had solar or something like that, they'd see it. Yeah. I don't even, like I just don't get how people found springs out in fucking mountains, like how did you find these things under the ground for wet spots? I met people that knew where springs were, or on properties where there was like little hidden parts of the property that had a little water source. Yeah. Yeah, and basically a spring box is just digging a hole big enough to put a certain size like man-made box in there that's gonna collect the water and let it build up to a usable amount and then you can drain it out one end and then gravity feed. Yeah, gravity feed it. Yeah, for the most part, yeah. It's upstarted. It's upstarted like a siphon. Yeah, sometimes. I mean, you know, and there's. If you had a low grade to somewhere, it was tricky to get the bubbles out of those lines. I remember working on that very hard. Lots of hiking back and forth to see if it worked now or not, you know. That's a great question. Was there ever turf wars over springs? Fuck, man, hell yes there was. I was thinking about that. I was thinking about that when 215 happened. I mean, a lot of, you don't hear this talked about very much. So all these water sources in the mountains, people kind of had them, that was kind of their turf. You know, they had those spots. And when 215 happened, the cartels came with guns and pretty much kicked everybody off their spot. And what it, but 215 was allowing all the people that had those spots to do it right in their fucking yard then. So it was like a little transfer of territories or whatever out of the woods. Yeah, but I mean, people used to, there used to be a thing where, you know, I mean, people would have arguments over how far away the patch should be from your home so that if they did camp it, they would just take the patch and not mess with you. And there would be arguments about how much you should hike and how far away. And so it's not like it was just like off in the bushes, you know, 100 yards from your house. A lot of these things you'd hike into or hike up to and it would be a good distance away. And that's why the little, how like the little trails were so like, you really had to think about that stuff. You didn't, if they saw a trail, they'd just walk right to it and there would be, you know, you had to really ninja that stuff. And be careful, you know? So yeah, it's like, I remember like a lot of times, especially when I was hiking up like dry amendments or something like that. In the spring, I would just want to puke because you're like going uphill and you've got like a 50 pound thing of food on your back and you're hiking. And then, you know, you get to mid-summer and it doesn't even feel like anything because you're in shape and you've done it for months. But in the beginning you would, and that was as a young buck, I'd be like, oh my God, this is fucking rough. So another thing that's kind of funny that people should know is that for me, it's like you use something like, like fish meal or bone meal or blood meal or something. And then all of a sudden you realize like, oh, that attracts bears. Yeah. You know? And bears or some kind of big animal comes in looking for what smells because you've got composting fish meal or composting crab meal or whatever. And then a big ass bear starts to dig in your soil and ruins your patch because you use the wrong kind of fertilizer. Yeah, I think the people I learned from right away was it was like backwano right away because they were kind of hippies. But then a lot of people who didn't care about that kind of stuff, they used those little Osmocote pellets. Oh yeah. Balls and they would just put those in there and that would be done. All they had to do was just add water. Time release. I mean, there was some people that once you, I mean, and I'll say this too, there was people that had established spots that they were able to do small patches in year after year. And so some of those people had some really nice soils, some really nice holes. They amended them well every year. So it was like an active, organic situation. And so there was some better pot that came out of those. Well, in the water. But setting it up sucked. The water was really good. The water quality really affected the weed back then too. People weren't using city water, treated water. It was just like mountain water, you know, and just like any other living thing, the quality of water is, it makes a difference. You know, it had minerals in it. It had little bits of stuff in it. That's where I learned too, that the old timers always taught me that pot was like a lateral root growth plant. And so they would always say like in the bushes, it's better to dig like an 18 inch or a two foot deep hole that was wide rather than one that was deep, you know? They're like the plant's gonna wanna go wide and you'll get more weight. So like make a shallow depression and fill it in. Rather than digging like a, I mean, there was people that would dig like four, five, six foot deep holes. But- That would have been me. I would have used that lunch. Dude, you're such a bitch. You're like crawling in the manzanitas with like a shovel that can strap to your back. And then you're underneath there and you're just like chomping at the ground. Trying to dig six feet with the tiny little- And then you gotta like- The plant was young at that stage. I mean, because nothing fucking mattered, you know? Yeah, you just got it done or whatever, but it wasn't easy. And then you had to remove the, you know, like because a lot of it, a lot in Mendo was red clay. It's not like we have like a ton of black, loamy deep rich earth that you can just like plant into. It's like mountainous and rocky and clay-like. And so you definitely had to add some stuff to it and amend it if you wanted to get anywhere. It's not like you could just like dig a hole and plant. Yeah. Yeah. Let's get into strains, guys. People want to hear about the strains. It's all God. Okay, so I'll say- It's always so funny because without clones to reference people, it's like, you're just telling them about a ghost, you know? Like- A little bit, a little bit. You know, but I had a moment today where I was harvesting some volunteer accidental thing that popped up in my yard and the rain got it. It was the only early thing I had and it had some big soft colas on it. And the rain kind of started getting to them, a little botrytis. And I'm smelling the piece I picked a few days ago and I'm smelling it. And I'm like, this smells just like Afghans 30 years ago. It- What was it? Do you remember where the volunteer was from? Yeah, it was some cookie-cush crap crossed with my Blue Dynamite Super Lemon OG crap. Like I had one male last year, so it had to be from that male. I can dig some Blue Dynamite crap over cookie-cush shit. You know, people hate cookies and I don't like what it stands for either, but ultimately if it's gassy and it has a good, I mean, if it's gassy, it's still decent smoke. I can't stay high off it. I can't, I can't stay high off it. It has no legs for me. Some of it's strong and some of it's not. And sometimes when I first found cookies like Forum and Animal and tried those things, I actually appreciated not being so fucking, I don't need to get sledgehammer fucking freaked out, stoned all the time. Sometimes I want to. Yeah. But I mean, I was high. I just wasn't, just because I'm not tripping the fuck out, I'm not high, you know? Not everything has to have me fucking just. Forum for me, like I get high. Like it's a good high for 10 minutes and then it's just like. Yeah. So that's fine if you gotta go pick your kid up from school in a half an hour. That's a good point. That is a good point. It's good if you don't want to stay high long. There are times, and I talk about this with rings quite a bit actually where like, I'll smoke something like that my headband, like the LA, and I'll go into town stupidly. Like I've done this hundreds of times to myself over the years. I'll get all baked on the wrong thing and I'll go into town and I'll be standing in line at this weird little store and it'll be like the Twilight Zone in line. And I'm like, why am I here? This re-store, great. Oh no. But one thing I will say about cookies is that I don't like cookies that much either. But two things about it. One is that since we were just talking about the gorilla era, I would have flipped out to have something. Cookies came out in the wrong era. If we would have had that shit in the gorilla era because cookies requires low light, it's super dense, right? It doesn't have to get that big to weigh a lot. It doesn't need a lot of food. It doesn't need a lot. It doesn't like food. It doesn't like sunlight. So I could have put it in a deep shade, not fed it very much and just loaded manzanita patches with cookies. And it would have came out like this. And it would have come in early enough to not mold. Oh, it would have been great. It would have been great. A lot of the things people are growing when I moved out here did not come in early. Not everybody grew specifically for early. That was kind of my own mission was to create something like early that was strong and looked good and decent to work with and stuff like that. But when I moved out here, I was hanging out on a mountain and people were bringing in fucking baseball colas from the out of the rain at the end of October. And the people I learned from were really good. And that was, they knew how to let things get there. They weren't gonna freak out and pull shit, you know. They really, they taught me a lot of stuff. Like I just got lucky and met people that really were into it and cared about it and were also down to take their time to show me some stuff and tell me why they did this or why they didn't do that. There was a lot of just hillweed that had a good amount of sativa in it, of all kinds back then. And it took a while, like there's a lot of weed that didn't finish until say like late October to early November, but it resisted the rain pretty well. And Mendo most falls, there's a lot of warm dry fall in Mendo. It might rain for two or three days and then be sunny for weeks. It just depends, you know? So there was a lot of sativa weed and because all the weeds sold, there wasn't like, I think what started with the purple craze and then the various things is everyone started getting the same cuttings and blending them. This era is the total opposite of that. Like all kinds of random, unique weed, some of it pretty mid-Z, but all kinds of different stuff just floated around because all weeds sold. Yeah. And every smell you can imagine today was already there back then, you know? It just, if you took the time to see as much as possible, which I was into, if people were like, I was just into it, you know, I was just like, oh, somebody's got some different shit. I'll go and look through it and ask them questions if I like some. But I remember smelling super intense cherry back then, super intense lime. All the earthy, skunky, Afghani smells and just kind of a little bit of everything and all different leafs, all different kinds of shit, you know? Talk about some of the most unique shit that you remember seeing during your early days there. What's some of the most, not necessarily by name, but described if you can. Yeah. I mean, I keep on thinking about this some stuff that my friends grew up actually down in the Watsonville and a girlfriend down there that was going to college. So I was down there a lot when they were doing it but one of the guys was ex-military, he had friends up in Humboldt and they had some little gorilla thing in a canyon in Watsonville. And when it was done, he brought us all this stuff and it was just like satiba, you know? And there was, there was, maybe it was kind of purple but it wasn't, it was like great. And these guys knew how to cure things beautifully. They were really into it, they took their time, they cared and we called it gray bud. And- Gray bud. One of those two satiba strains was called golden lion. So somebody up in Humboldt would recognize that name. I just- Golden lion? Yeah, golden lion and, you know, I just figured it was from some rasta crew up in Humboldt. Sure. And, but I remember that gray bud, my friends and I smoking it and like not even talking. Like we just left our fucking bodies in leather. That sounds great. And it was fucking amazing. But the most memorable things too, Thai Afghans from Spyroc, one of the first things I saw that just had everything, beauty, smell, really wild highs and stuff. I remember my buddy would take his scissors hash and it looked like what we called monkey's blood opium. It was like translucent red. And I remember smoking that and being sitting on the ground and just holding the ground, waiting to come just to get my bearings. It was so potent. But those Thai Afghans blew me away. You know, these characters were so funny. Lowbird, a guy who called himself Lowbird, a weird jungle monkey from Hawaii, growing Hawaiian sativas in the like 94. He had great stories of Swazis and he said all of him in the old heads, they liked Swazis. That was like the gold in Hawaii in like the early 90s or something. Interesting. Yeah, I never got to see that. He grew some Hawaiian sativa seeds here and would bring the plants in every night because they weren't gonna get done until, I think he harvested them at Christmas. They were fucking great. They had really floral, sweet smells, really nice. Some of them had really nice little shade of purple and some of them stayed green no matter how cold it was. Yeah. And some of that too was like, because weed was so valuable then, it was a lot easier to dry and handle things if you wanted to in a really nice way because there wasn't so much of it. Like it wasn't some overwhelming amount of shit. You could treat it nicer and that made a difference too. One of the things maybe we should note is that when you'd get pounds or you'd see pounds, most of them were all mixed phenos because they weren't from clone. So you would get, there would be pounds and they would be all the same wine, but they would trim it up and they would blend it up and you'd be looking at this and this would smell like that and this would smell like that. And then you'd be like, oh wait, what is that one? And then you start digging in the bag, looking for weed that looks like that and picking out and trying to gather yourself a little pile and you're like that one right there. That's what I want. We always joked how people would, there'd be like an overripe purple, but in a mixed bag that had no resin on it, it just smelled like garbage because it was way overripe and somebody would see a pound, they'd focus in on that one. They'd be like, look at that purple. Fuck yeah. We'd be like, we'd just laugh because it was garbage, you know. That would probably be me. The young me would be doing that. But I mean, there's an aspect too and then some people would be like, oh, some of these pounds are kind of mid-Z but these plants are really flavorful. So we're gonna take a few ounces and put them into the top of each of these pounds so that when people open the bag, there's like a nice selection and it makes them think that the whole bag is like that. But really, it's like, these are nice and the rest of them are just okay. And, but it all went because people wanted good weed. There was, it wasn't hard. They didn't have any options to get better weed. There was no like, you weren't getting rejected. Yeah. If you just dried yourself stuff nice, got kept green, got it dry enough to where it wouldn't turn yellow right away, your shit was golden. You know, I mean, it was really appreciated by people, whatever it was. Sometimes I remember that one time I grew that skunk one. It was funny because people are like, this shit is weak and they were just bummed on it. Yeah. I can imagine. I've heard of similar experiences recently with another off, but he's got one. They didn't have money and they were spending 50 bucks on an eighth even here in Mendo. You know, if they took a smoked up, you know, they would brash and shit out. If they were taking a couple of hits of something and not getting tore back, they were kind of bummed. Well, and also one thing that I don't know if a lot of people realize, seeds prices probably have, instead of withflation or risen, have maybe dropped now compared to what they were. They've always been pretty, especially sensey. They've always been pretty expensive for the time. They've dropped massively because if you think about the purchasing power of what that, the seed cost hasn't changed all that, that much, you know? But I mean, obviously there's some people that have some hype that try to like counter inflation or whatever, but, you know, for me- I couldn't buy seeds from Europe back then. You know, like some of my older brother's friends went to Europe and brought back seeds in the 80s and stuff and they had their little, they lived in metro areas, you know, Minneapolis, things like that. And they would have their little closet grows with a 400 or a couple of 400s or whatever. And so they had that Dutch stuff, but, you know, when I moved out here, I was just like, man, it didn't seem like that Dutch stuff even mattered out here, but it did everywhere else, you know? I mean, most of the Dutch stuff was imported from either California, Washington, or the Pacific Northwest. So they didn't really have a need to go to the Dutch to get a fucked up version of what was already there. Yeah, you'd never, I never heard people say like, oh, we went to, we put Northern Lights in this or we put skunk one in this. It was like, it was mostly older stuff. And it really didn't have much, which I appreciated. I already was a total nerd, a high times nerd. I knew all those strains. I lost it at wanting to try them and stuff, but I was able to try some Northern Lights and skunk Northern Lights mixes that my brother's friends had made and one of their friends grew G13 clones in the early nineties. And I got to smoke that, but most, that was, yeah, they were actually the first crew I knew that did clones. They kept stuff, if they had a great plant, they kept it, they were into their gardening. There was actually this crew from before I even moved out to Mendo from Wisconsin that had this, they called it blueberry skunk. And I used to get it in 93, 94, 95, 96. I never was able to get a clone of it out in California, but they had little, you know, in Madison and some of these rural areas outside of Madison, they would have these little four and six lighters and they would all grow this blueberry skunk. That's what they called it. And it was really attractive. I have no idea what it was related to. And I never grew it myself, but I got buds of it. And, you know, but what's interesting about that too is that when you found somebody that was intelligent in the sense that like they cared about the, intelligent is the wrong word, I'm sorry. When they were, when they cared about lineage. Yeah, when they were fucking autistic nerds like us. Right, when they cared about lineage, not intelligence, but just like a weed nerdism to like, they'd tell you something like that, like, oh, it's a Mexican with a Swazi or it's a Colombian mechs with some Afghan that we, and they get, you know, but most of it was the name of the closest little mountain or town that it came from. When I first moved here, there was so much weed that was like, oh, this is from White Thorn. This is from the Hills Above Copalo. This is some Sherwood Road. This is some Long Valley. This is some, you know, some Alder Point weed. And it was just named kind of by the little town or the little area or the little hills that it came from. Yeah, yeah, more than anything. Nobody wanted their names associated with anything, you know. And so when I brought out the Maui, because I, you know, I brought out the Maui and the Crystal Chunk to California because from Chicago, that was all we knew was like the only reason why you started seeds was to find a killer clone and then you use the clone. Yeah. You know, we were all indoor and stuff like that. So, you know, and so I came here and clones, like you said, clones were rare. People were shocked that I was like running rooms of the same thing. Yeah, I mean, keepers were just plants that were kept because nobody kept shit. You could have kept anything and if you had those, I mean, there just wasn't many clones. I, you know, I always think of your Maui, the Apgu, what else? Yeah, we had the Apgu up here, Matt. Oh yeah, big time. It was early and it looked like indoor because it was so resinous and stuff so it was very popular because it came in at a decent time outdoors too. It has amazing turps too, unless you get sick of it because pretty much everything with Apgu smells like Apgu and you can get sick of it if that's all you're smelling like that cantaloupe, weird, mango-y, I loved it. There was a Northern Lights Blueberry, I think that went around here that smelled, it either was the same or it smelled very similar early on back then. And that was sort of like when you did a bunch of outdoor seeds and stuff like that, that was my first experience with like, oh wow, there really are dominant traits, you know? And I remember some of my first meetings thinking that I could breed away from certain things, I wasn't fond of and breed towards other things, I liked more. And then sometimes that worked really well and I pat myself on the back and sometimes that trait was just ingrained. And I was like, oh, I can't get rid of it, you know? It's just part of it. You know, like you were saying things like Apgu smell like Apgu or terpenaline or something like that. You know, like there's things where you're like, oh, I can't get it out of there. Yeah, I remember getting really sick of Apgu Pounds. Because I was born, I just thought all clones were like great to see and maybe they were great to smoke here and there. But as far as the mission I was on, all clones were boring unless you just made seeds with them and then the seeds you grew out of them were fun. You know, like I just wasn't a clone guy ever, pretty much. I loved sour so much that I kept that for a long time. A lot of times having other friends hold it at times or this or that, I kept it around because it was just like a daily driver to me, like just something I like smoking. And we can talk about it. I'd ask you the top three favorite strains, but I'm not sure I can get any strain names out of you. We can actually talk them about that. No, you can't. I mean, I know all the clones, you know? I always hung out with people that grew the clones and enjoyed them and stopped. I mean, as far as like things that are identifiable there certainly is some. No, not even identifiable clone. I just mean like top three favorite smokes, not even necessarily strains, but smokes, vents, what smell, like, taste, and like. I mean, that's really like, there's strain names, just identifiable stuff and we use that so other people know exactly what you're talking about. You can transcend that just by talking about what it smelled like, taste, like, the highs. Maybe I could, top three. Interject is really quick though, is that before we get away from it, which is there was two sour diesels I saw early on. One is the one that I still have, which I've talked about before, but then there was this other one that Rings was much more familiar with, that existed, that took longer, was more feathery, hermed more, was more delicate. So you could talk about that for a minute because the sour that I ended up keeping was one of two that I saw. And the one that he had was much different, but it was spread around back then. But it was significantly different in growth pattern and it had a similar nose. It was definitely similar, but it was very different in growth. Yeah, we considered it to be like piney. I mean, it was, I mean, the whole sour thing was just crazy how it just took off. I mean, the first time I got it actually was from a guy, I mean, Jean knows too. He grew up near him. The guy gave it to me and I was like, this shit is ugly because still at that time, everybody basically wanted something dense, round with a lot of resin on it. And my buddy handed me the sour and I was just like, fuck, this shit's all feathery as peach colored hairs on it. And just looked weird to me, but as soon as we smoked it, it was just like, I remember looking at it and just being, wow, this is going past what the norm is. Like this, it was the first like commercial thing that didn't look like everything people wanted for a long time, dense, round, chrysalis, blah, blah, you know, it was just such good smoke. It would make people forget about those other things they thought they desired. So I thought it played a really good role in that, like kind of breaking down some walls that were just always there. Like it didn't always look great in a bag, you know, sticky, little fluffy, I mean, it really, you had to hit it right to get a lot of resin on it, but even if it didn't have a lot of resin on it, it had big flavor and it had that zippy high, that was real clear, you know, I always thought it would buy it on the nose. Oh yeah, well, it seemed like- But then tremors would cry because they wanted that big, the stuff that he was just talking about, all that big chunky resinous, that stuff's easy to trim and people can get through it. Sour gets popular and a bunch of people are growing that cut and it's feathery and shitty and loose and sticky and you have to be all gentle with it to not fuck it up. It would give tremors- Why they were fucking doing it? Why? Yes. You would have to go, sour introduced psychotherapy to trim bossing because you had to like convince your tremors like this is gonna be worth it, please do this, I know it sucks because it was a struggle. It was, sometimes it looked ugly. Outdoor, I mean, it still had all the turps and the good buds and stuff like that, but it did not form up into a piece. But then I saw some people growing in greenhouses and feeding it intense food. We were kind of more on the hippie organic side. So we weren't dropping big, we weren't throwing grown more on it or anything like that. But I remember people pulling a lot of different-looking stuff out of that same clone, just by the way they were feeding it for sure. They could get some pretty big dense buds out of it if they nuked it with food. But I mean, top three strains, I don't wanna say sour, sour, sour. I mean, there wasn't, I'm not really that attached. I'm into keeping on moving and seeing what comes out of these seeds that I've collected or bought or whatever over the years. I don't really get that attached. They all give me high. There's certain highs I like better. But I'm willing to have a bad buzz just to try something new. You know, there's something I don't like. I just like to keep moving because I wanna see plants. That's kind of, I was a hobbyist when I got into it. It was just like more plants all from seed, preferably, just so I could, it was like information to me to go to those kinds of gardens and just see expressions, see different tendencies. You know, you could, after a while you're just like, oh, that's heavy Afghani at this guy's garden, you know, or this guy's garden. I think that's something like me and Caleb and a bunch of other people that are big into identification through visual and bring for traits and all that. The one advantage that we had was seeing a lot of different strains. And like I told you the other day, my mentor, Hog, he would always tell me like, you wanna learn? You learn by drawing the baselines. Baselines, baselines. Northern lights, skunk one, haze. You wanna grow as many different types of Afghanis as you can. You wanna grow as many ties as you can in Mexicans and Colombians. You don't, if you don't grow those, you don't know shit about pot. And that's what he told me. So I looked at it. That's cool. That's good. Yeah, it's a good place to start. And you see, one of the things that always interests me when Rings and I are in one of our many combos is that there's certain lines that he's been playing with for a very long time. And then you really get to see because you've crossed it to a lot of different things. What are the traits that are dominant that keep popping up? What does it give to crosses? There's things that he'll be like to me. He'll be like, a lot of people don't like this line, but here's four things that I just love that it just throws in its progeny all the time. And so I kind of lean towards it, because of these things, you know? And there's stuff he's done, like we did, it's gotten, we did a little collab, if you personal collab where he had some, you could talk about this. He had some old maple leaf indica from Sensey Seeds in that era where they were still selling it. We blended with a bunch of stuff, blue dynamite. There's been sours and cushes and various different lines. And he makes seed basically every year. So some of this stuff, someone was asking in the comments, when did you first get blue dynamite? 2002. I said early 2000s, but. Yeah, that's when I got sick of just kind of breeding my stuff to itself over and over and kind of just being like, okay, this stuff has this kind of range and I now want to see other people's shit. I want to see what these people in Canada are fucking with or whatever. And I had read about maple, so I ordered some maple seeds and it's funny because I've bought in so many things over the years to check them out. All these things that I hear old schoolers talking about, the only things I really have that are still fresh and poppable in my collection to this day are blue dynamite in them or maple leaf in them, everything else is just coming gone. And it's not that I think those things are the greatest or this, I mean, none of it's the greatest. To me, it's just all more, more, more, more. I just want to see more plants, but they were reliable. They were reliable to do what they did. Yeah. You know, the maple was great. It wasn't very good looking. Generally it had a nice smell and it had a great smoke ability. That's why I liked it. You said a lot of terpitaline expressions, but there was some cushy in there or more dense Afghani type. Yeah, I remember when Notso and I did that little collab, I remember Caleb hit them up and said, do you see any actual maple leaves? Leaves. Yeah. I had one. I had one. I sent it, I sent it to him, you know? That's cool. Yeah. Yeah, and I mean, we kind of did like a little open pollination with that. Not that it was very big. I think we got four boys and three girls to pop out of some of the old seed, but we let them pollinate each other like crazy, and then we threw in a bunch of like clones that I like. If I, you know, Kems, Chem91, ChemD, Mendo P, the Tanjo, the Super Silver Hayes, the headband, you know, just a collection of stuff. Because he's got, you know, O.G. from seed in there. I threw a few things from seed in there too. And I've grown, I mean, Notso hasn't popped many of those, but I've popped, I've seen hundreds and hundreds of plants out of there, the Lumpah headband, maples, and I had a Karma, O.G. I had let go and a buddy of mine wanted to. Would you say that? Karma, O.G., never heard of her. Go ahead. I'm sorry. What was interesting, it was really cool. I had a buddy a few years ago call and he was off the grid and he was like, I want to just dep a whole bunch of seed stuff. Can I get some seeds? So I gave them tons. And I gave them the Lumpah headband with the maple and the Karma, O.G. I had made with the maple. And it was, it's like the classic O.G. story where they're all kind of the same, even though they got all these names. Those two rows, those two rows, they might as well been from the same batch of seed. There was basically like two main expressions and they looked like each other. You know, so that's why I like running seeds. You get to just see that kind of shit, you know? Yeah, I crossed, the other day I was trying to add it. I was something like nine different O.G.s to the blue ball. It's just to see how each different one combined with the same exact male. That there was pretty true breeding through the same expressions. And there was very little variants. I mean, like most of them, like the SFV and the Louis and all that, you can't, it's hard to tell them apart. Yeah, they're so similar. And I mean, sure there was a little different smells and stuff, you know, in the different cuts, but the genetic, whatever was in them wasn't that far apart. Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, I don't know. It's interesting in that regard because, you know, just so people know too, it's not like, I don't think that those maple seeds that we use were like from the original pack. They had probably been reproduced a couple of times. They were just spread to themselves several times to just keep them going. I mean, that was 15 years after I bought them. What was the med woman? Med woman, who brought, oh yeah, med dude. I couldn't believe he posted a picture of this med woman. Med woman was a Northern Lights something. If you look it up, it won a contest up in Oregon or Washington years ago, and it won for being like a good medical strain. I had a buddy up in Eugene that sourced some really good grade clones. I was in 06, 07. I was living up in Mount Shasta area. And my buddy from Eugene came down. He brought from Roseburg, Oregon. He brought med woman. He brought shishkeberry. He brought a grapefruit cut that is unlike any grapefruit I've ever seen again. It was fucking amazing. It's one of the few ones I wish I had, because usually I just don't care. I'm just one of the poppers. That grapefruit was fucking insane. Cheese. He brought down some really great stuff. I threw this thing of my friend and I made the bilo. I threw that on everything, because that's what we had. I had moved back down here and we brought these beat up moms down here. And nobody really had the capacity to like take cuts and keep stuff or we weren't interested at that time. It was kind of a transitional time in my life. And so we just threw what pollen we had on it. I still have a whole shillow to those somewhere in the freezer. The seeds? Yeah. Of the grapefruit? The grapefruit's the one that got away. The last batch of those seeds I gave to a buddy to grow out the year we had our fire, they burnt. He was gonna- So there's no more grapefruit hybrids? No. And we've tried to find that cutting in Oregon several times. I've tried- It's gotta be very hard with such a generic name. Yeah, I tried to grow out relic grapefruit to see it because he was in the similar area and he had a lot of the same things he worked with. Shishkeberry, cheese, grapefruit, I'll take man. He probably had the same ones I did. I grew those out. There was no crazy grapefruit. There was old school smells in it, it was cool but it was not. It's a different kind of grapefruit probably. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean people call different C99s grapefruit. We have the sweet pink grapefruit. Yeah, grapefruit, romulin. I mean there's so many different grapefruits. Yeah. I think that- To find grapefruit. I mean the good thing about it is that it's like I was talking about it. It's kind of funny when people find some kind of turp or combination and then start to claim that like anything that does that comes from them, right? Like if there's grapefruit, there's gonna be grapefruit again. Just because we lost the turp combination of certain ones, it's common enough that it popped up in enough different things that I'm confident it'll exist again in some format. Well, it's kind of like the blueberry story, right? Like, I mean one person claims all smells of blueberry in cannabis is all his descendants, you know, etc. But we know that like I've seen blueberry pop out of Irene's sour diesel, you know? Like super blueberry turps. It's possible to find it in all kinds of different combinations and we'll always run into it again. Yeah, you never know. I mean, especially if your seeds have a good deep pool, you know, you could get all kinds of shit. I mean, when I grew out the maple mendo perps, I probably popped, I don't know, two, 300 of them or at least 200 of them or, you know, to be conservative. Yeah. The range is fucking amazing. You get such and that's fun to me at this point. Instead of trying to make something consistent, I almost would rather make something wild at this time that you can actually get something unique out of, you know? Yeah, I mean, Caleb makes a really good point, dude, where he talks about like he used the mendo perps as an example, because it has a really wide genetic. He was like, if I gave 100 S1s to like seven or eight different friends and asked them to select what they like and breed with it, you would probably end up with wildly different selections and people would take it in their own way and it wouldn't be similar at all. And I think the maple is kind of like that. The maple, the maple from Sensi is probably, it's probably like two or three different of Neville's maple cuts and a little skunk one. And it's probably pretty wide, you know? And then the mendo's wide, so you cross that and you just get like a whole host of, it really isn't what it is. It can be a lot of different things. The maple was dominantly, like I told Matt the other night, it had long inner nodes. It had fluffy kind of terpenaline based stuff. Some were resinous, some looked pretty ropey-dopey, but everybody liked it as far as just smoking a joint. You know, it was good. But every once in a while, I'd say the rare thing in that line was to get something that actually had a little density to it and a resinous appearance to it and more of a like a fat leaf. That wasn't the common thing, but it was in there. You know? I had that same experience with black domino, the exact same experience. It was one that I expected to find some faster finishing, almost blackish-purple, like really resinous, cushy-looking things. And what I got was exactly what you described, which were like 13, 14 week, airy, fluffy, terpenaline, not a lot of stuff. That one actually didn't have a lot of variants. From what I saw, it was just all tended to be that. Yeah. But I'm sure there was other stuff in it just in the fact that I popped that. Yeah, you didn't have to pop like 30 or better. Exactly. I popped 10. You know, it's like, what are you gonna find? I remember people ordering sensi Afghani ones based on the picture, looking at leaf and stuff. They are all just super tall, super leggy. They did not get fat leaf, buff structured shit out of that. You know. Yeah, there's a lot of really boofy, ugly Afghani number one. I've only seen like a few really prime cuts ever selected from that line. I will say that, you know, a lot of the Afghan that first came over to Mendo and Humboldt and stuff, a lot of the old timers, I think that's a consistent thing with Afghani in the sense that like there's a lot of kind of boofy Afghan. And then every... Me and Hitman ran that G13 NL2 from Neville. Some of the last original seeds he had and it is exactly as he's describing it. It was terpenaline, loose. Yeah, he wasn't stoked. Yeah. No, but there's an aspect where then you find a Fino that you want and breed with that. And there are, you know, it's like, that's kind of like everybody wants land race, but nobody wants diversity because that means it's like, they don't want to like pop a few packs and it all sucks. Yeah, I get excited about ugly plants at this point. Like to me, that's fun. And some of those really ugly things smoked really nice and some of this really dense, crazy stuff. To me, that's not like the most old. I need to get you some of that rose flow, I grew. I know I gave the rest a cry baby of it pure, but it is some of the ugliest fucking shit I've ever seen in my life. It burns up with any nutrients, but it's bright red, pretty leaves. Like there's so much pretty about it. And for flows, there's like no density to it, but it breeds great. Yeah. But ugly as fuck, not much resin. Yeah, it's one of those that you, it's very unique. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. I know, I mean there's, go ahead. You know, we didn't need to really be visually that appealing until Instagram. I view the Instagram era as like a massive change in what we'd had to look like. There was lots of weed that was somewhat ugly, but if it worked and smoked and tasted really nice and got you zippy high, like you were stoked. Like he was talking about that sour, you know, that sour, it was, it was stemmy, it was loose. It was funky looking in some ways, but it got you ripped high and tasted great. Aced it, amazing. Yeah. You know? Yeah, I think of it a little different. I think the market and people just always, especially when spending 50 bucks was a lot to them because they didn't have much money. They wanted it to be like a, they wanted the appearances that we used to call it fake, fake tits and bleach bond hair weed. You know, they wanted dense, crystal-y buds just to look at because- Blackberry kush. Not Blackberry kush. I mean, honestly, dude, you know, I remember that clone. I never fucked with that clone. I saw tons of it, but I remember getting an ounce of weed in San Francisco in the 90s once and it was, you know, we just called it hydro. You know, it was some kind of indoor and there was only like nine butts and we were like so pumped, you know, because each bud was like two to four grams. Yeah. You know what I mean? It was like looking at like these chunky, you were like, oh God, somebody gave me like the breeder stash. Yeah. Because, you know, it was one of those things where it was like it wasn't that common to see. So you wanted visually appealing. I don't remember anything about that weed except for how impressed we were that it was nice buds. Yeah, it looked nice and big. Yeah. It was just blue. It was just bright green and bright orange hairs and frosty and all these big chunks. A lot of times people when they got an eighth that just had one chunk in it, they were kind of buttered. You know, like they, or they questioned if you were giving them 2.8 instead of 3.5. Oh, of course. Yeah. But if it was good, if it was strong, they just didn't forget, you know, they'd want more. Let's see. Someone asked what were the earliest purple strings rings on Cali? I'd say the earliest, well, the real, the earliest ones were just overripe depleted plants that maybe turned purple and they weren't, we'd thought, oh, somebody said they had purple. We'd be like, oh, it's garbage, you know, because it was always like something left on the vine, depleted, whatever it wasn't really good, but Laytonville, Laytonville had a, in fact, that ties back to the underwear guy in the shack. There was a real common type in Laytonville. And this, I kind of sometimes I think of this with the Mendo-Perp story. It's kind of my own take or whatever, but there was a green and a purple and they were both really pretty. You could tell the purple was supposed to be there instead of something that was, you know, a reflection of something not good, you know. Was that the strain that people called the purple from Laytonville? Maybe. Okay. Maybe. That's the second time I've heard the Laytonville purple, like a specific Laytonville purple mentioned in relation to like one of the early purple... Yeah, a bunch of families that I'd met back then had the similar stuff. And it'd be like they'd have either this bright green, it was never real dense, it was just nice. And then there was like a purple side that was really pretty that would be in there too. Yeah. And so it often had a real sweet, like fruity type of smell to it also. Interesting. And there's an aspect too that people should know that what Rings is talking about when like overdone shit is fricking, people would do first and second and third cuts. And so a lot of times there would be purple weed that would be like all the smalls that everybody left to ripen and they'd stick out in the cold and they turned dark and it was like all the underlight, underfed stuff that would happen. And then they would cut that and put it into pounds. So it was the same price as the tops back then. You know, it just sucked. But it was still, yeah, people would really milk their shit and I didn't see not too many people cleaned up their plants to try to make their tops the best. You know, they would just pick those tops, let those other things go until they did something and some strains really actually did okay with it. And some of them would just shit out as soon as you picked on them. They would, everything else would be shitty, but they would still pick it and sell it. There was this aspect where people thought, oh, we can leave this stuff on and let it ripen because it's underdone, never got enough light. We'll just leave it out and it's not gonna rock because it's too small. And then that stuff would ripen and turn colors because it would get pretty cold at night. And then they would go out and harvest it. So it was often like late batch, undergrown remnants for the most part. Yeah, now it's fun. I mean, being a hobbyist and moving out here and just seeing all that shit, it was just my mind. I was just the happiest boy in my 20s running around these hills looking at as much shit as I could. I thought it was great. I can only imagine. Yeah, man. And being that age and obviously I missed my era because that would have been something I would have loved to have lived through. So it's pretty cool to be able to pick your brain and be able to sit here and ask you questions about it and kind of live via proxy through an era that I missed. Yeah, I mean, we're all born when we're born. We all get our turn. I know you still got to see cooler punk rock shit than I did too, motherfucker. Yeah, and you know what? I mean, growing up in the town that I did, it was almost unthinkable that it could have happened. It was just my older brother and their friends. I don't know how they stumbled on. So that's how I got sucked in too is who became my older brother-in-law. He gave me into punk rock scene with a little little kid. So yeah, makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, that was fun too. Still was for all those years too, moving out here and being able to run down to the city down to San Francisco. And sometimes I'd see bands I knew from the Midwest played in San Francisco. That was always fun too, just little reunions in a straight plate. Yeah. Is there anything else you wanted to cover, Nato? One of the things that we could cover that kind of ties into what we were talking about is that both rings and I arrived in Mendo when it was, I mentioned it before, but when it was kind of poor and weird, right? And it was very odd place. And then people think too, like people used to come to Mendo all the time and be like, oh my God, weed is legal. And we did this thing where we passed this thing, Measure G, which kind of basically forbade the cops from messing with you too hard if you only had 25 plants and you had your paperwork. And so people would come to Mendo every week and be like, weed is legal. I can do whatever I want. And you would be like, oh my God, no. Like there's very much a cat and mouse game that goes on between you and your neighbors and where you're at, what part of the county, there was neighborhoods that you could get away with it fine. And there was neighborhoods where like retired doctors or lawyers or whoever would just report anything that they saw. Absolutely. And if you didn't know, like which streets and which areas were kosher and not, you could come up here and like way get like, like in the wrong spot and get it turned out. One of the most amazing things was that you could go to the sheriff's department and buy 25 zip ties for 625 boxers. You could, big yellow zip ties. I mean, my ex had cancer. You're in the sheriff's department getting these zip ties from some old lady and you'd go and wrap them around your stock. And you just felt like, fuck the neighbors, whatever they can bitch all they want. If you got these things, the cops, if you have only 25, like you're, you felt pretty empowered. So that created probably, I would say in, I don't know, I've been here four or five years or longer than, so it was probably 0203. Maybe it was when it really started, what we call like the green wave. So probably like 0203 to maybe like 09. There was just an immense wave of outsiders that came into the county all at once. Buying up property, they drove up the cost of properties by enormous amounts. People really started blowing it up huge. It changed the culture of the place because anytime you get a bunch of outsiders coming in too fast, they can't learn from the people that were already there. And so there was like friction between the people that had been here for a while and the people that were just sort of like, there was people that were like, I moved here, I bought this land, it's in the country, which means I'm American and I can like fire guns and get drunk and drive 70 miles an hour up the thing and I can drain the community spring and I don't give a fuck, I'm growing weed and fuck my neighbors and suck a dick. And you'd be like, oh no, no, no, no, that doesn't actually work well, you know, people. Yeah, you'll end up in a hole, motherfucker. This is Mendo. And that was the beginning of clones too. That was the beginning of like the seeds, the seed, the past was just disappeared into clones at that time too. And I remember being really bummed because I knew I could see it happening. I was like, all this diversity is just going away to berry white, afgoo, and blue dream clones. Like all these people would have grown 25 plants from seed anytime before this, but now they're just monocropping one clone now. And they, you know, they would come here and they would wanna make a bunch of money. A lot of them wouldn't even stay here over the winter. They would come seasonally to make money and bail. And it changed the culture of the place. It brought a lot of money and it definitely improved thousands upon thousands of rural properties that got built up and made nice. And do you kind of the main hub? I mean, it put a spitch, it polished the turd, if you will. Oh, I mean, when I first moved, Willets, which is the town north of us in Mendo, half of it was boarded up. It had some really hideous buildings. It was way on the downturn. And now what's funny, the reason why I brought it up is because we've been talking a bunch about how we watched all these people flow in. And now with the collapse of the weed economy and the prices dropping to so crazy and everybody getting used to growing volume, which rings hates and growing a bunch of B and C grade weed and just hoping it was good enough. Now all these people are flowing back out of the community because everyone that came in for easy money is like, oh, it's not easy. Oklahoma, bye-bye. Yeah, there was a lot of rich kids, a lot of, you know, because I mean, you had to have some, it was either like big hustlers from cities all over the country or rich kids because it still cost a lot of money to get a property and actually set it up and pay people and stuff like that. You had to, you know, they had to, you couldn't be broke and come to Mendo and start a scene. No, there's a lot of people up here that didn't want to admit that they got their parents to buy them properties. And then they started blowing, and then they started blowing it up and like going on vacations. And I used to think a lot of those people, I was like, man, they're just so much better at what they're doing than I am. And then I realized that like, their parents bought them, like it was just play money to them. While I was trying to like live and survive and breed and do these different things and like there was no backstop, like they had the parent that like put the property in their name, that put the down payment down. Safety nets would be fucking awesome. And you didn't realize that none of them really wanted to tell you that that was the case. A lot of them right now are going back to work for their mom and dads corporations after 15 years. Yeah, they are. Mendo. Yeah, of blowing it up in Mendo. And a lot of them too, to be honest, they would come up here for two or three years and actually grow. And then they would farm it out to a good friend or friends that weren't doing as well and still take a huge percentage, but it was their property. And they would live in Santa Rosa or the Bay or Southern California or whatever. And they would come up at important times to their property and make sure it worked. But they weren't really from here. They just kind of came up and blew it up and made some money and then left and then used the funnel to like funnel money to themselves so they could live where they wanted. Yeah, we know lots of those. Yeah. And so it's kind of getting back to like broken weird again in a way. Yeah. Which is painful to see, but you know. It's not like Yukio will turn back into a poor town with a big factory on the edge of town blowing fuel exhaust over the whole town. It won't be back there because now it's just, it's like the new affordable place for city people to put their money because all the towns between here and San Francisco are ludicrously expensive. Like every time a person sells a house in town, there's a person from the Bay Area willing to just buy it because it's only 600,000, whereas anywhere south of here, it's 800 or a million for the same thing. And so there's an aspect where if you live in like the valleys where, yeah, where we live right now, he's making fun of me because I got this verbal tick. I got rid of one and then others came in my place. But there's part where around Yukio, around Redwood Valley, around certain valleys, I think the properties are maintaining value, but there's a lot of like mountainous properties that when people tried to get them permitted, they're just not permittable that without hundreds of thousands of dollars of improvements. Most of them don't even have enough water on them to grow a garden. I mean, if people came up here and spent $350,000 buying a raw 20 acres that had no water on it and they set it up and buy water and have it delivered, and now that the weed isn't bringing money, what is that property worth? Really, you know. Exactly. And so there's a lot of things too, and this is another kind of conflict in our area where the regulations want people to come out of the traditional pot growing areas and the hills, and they want them to come down to the valleys and like get legal on like ag land. And then there's a bunch of retired doctors and lawyers and the wine people that are like, what do you mean there's a grow down the street? I don't want to see that. That's supposed to hide up in the hills. I bought this retirement property. It's all supposed to be rolling grapes and orchards and not these degenerates with me. I don't care do they have a permit? Well, Sonoma County had a big problem, you know, at first when they were starting to go legal, and I mean, who owns Sonoma County rich conservative wine growers, they were not into it. And then some of those people were actually investing in weed once it really got legal, you know, but they hated it before and- And they probably still hate it, but they're gonna invest in it now and make some money. Money is money. But there's an aspect where you see a lot. My point to that I guess was that I'm curious in two or three years what a lot of these mountain properties look like because the price of weed has collapsed so much. And it might cost hundreds of thousands of dollars just to fix your road so that like, you know, the fire department and whoever else will sign off on you having a one license grow. And if it's, if the angle of your road is more than 14 degrees, you have to get it paved or this or this or this. And so a lot of these places where it used to be traditional and good to hide and grow mountain weed and it's clean and it's pure up there, it's not suitable for the current form of legal. Yeah, unless you get lucky. Very few of them had enough water. They barely had enough water to just supply a normal household, you know, let alone a big garden out on the lap. You know, so they were all trucking it in. Fuck, people in the last few years were spending, trying to grow these 10,000 square foot off of the bottom water. They were spending like 1200 bucks a day or more. I've heard about that. People trucking in water and shit. People trucking in water. Water trucks running around everywhere. They're tanking. I talked to a water truck driver I knew the other day. He's like, man, there ain't shit going on. He's like, I didn't make shit last year from it. You know, it's just over. There are tons of people bought water trucks. It was all the rage. Yeah. There was enough profit in it that it made sense to do a lot of things like that. And so I used to have this running joke that you'd find something and it'd be like a composting toilet, you know, cute little shack, you know, solar power, 20 acres and it'd be like 700 grand. Yeah. Because people would be like, oh, you could put 50 plants on that thing and make tons of money. Pay it off in a couple of years. And so now what is that property gonna be worth in a couple of years? Like the, you know, what really is that weird? It doesn't have a septic. It doesn't have a this. It doesn't have a that. It's just a spot on the hill. Well, many of these people that moved here just had no idea how to like maintain a property. You know, like these properties are just shit. They're leaving them with just broken down carports and shitty shacks. They threw up real quick just to dry some plants and I mean, just garbage, tons of garbage, you know, on them, they're crap. Yeah. There's a lot, people leave a lot of garbage. Then everyone thinks that like Mendo and Humboldt is this beautiful pristine place. There's a lot of human garbage. My friends from Santa Cruz would come up here and go, man, why does everybody like having garbage out in their front yards up here? Carpacers filled a natural repository for garbage yards too. Yeah. Mendo fashion is having some sort of blue tarp ripped up and, you know, in the wind. Yeah. It's normal around here. I mean, there was places that we bought that we went in and like they would take like an old barn or an abandoned cabin and they would just fill it with their household trash because they didn't want to have trash service. And you'd have to put on like essentially a hazmat suit. And you rent most places we got a hold of in the late 90s through the mid 2000s. One of the first things you would do was get however many 40 yard dumpsters you needed. Yeah, yeah. And you could load 40 yard dumpsters with trash. Oh, and some people would just make a huge pile and cover it with gas and set it on fire. There'd be a big, black fucking. Black, nasty, horrific. God, yeah. People would, you know, it was an interesting spot. One thing that's one million wippet containers and all that kind of shit laying around. I mean, in the wippet containers, in the open blast era of butane, it got really bad up here. And people would do stuff where they got scared of throwing away thousands of empty cans of tane. So they would like use a backhoe and dig a hole in the woods and just pour all the thing in there and drive over it and then fill it back in. That was, I mean, I've seen a lot of them just left on the side of a road. Huge piles, thousands and thousands of butane canisters just left out in a beautiful wilderness with just a big, massive pile of butane cans laying around. You know. I mean, so there's an aspect to that where like that whole open blast era, which was probably eight or 10 years or something like that, it was a lot of damage, you know. There's a lot of dumping. There's a lot of melt skin on humans too, you know. Some really bizarre stories of humans melting as the clandestine butane left. You're laughing, but it's true, dude. It's true. I have friends that their skin looks pebbled, you know. Yeah, yeah, I thought about it a few. It's not, it wasn't good. No, anyway. We're at the end of the two hours. Oh, shit. We ran all the way through it. Nice. Well, you know, obviously we're just the kind of dorks that could babble on that. So. This is what we do anyways. Yeah. Like, yeah. But that's the vibe we wanted to give you. What is it like to shoot shit? For the first time I was on something like this. I just, I didn't even realize so I was just bullshitting with you two. Yeah, well, the good part is nobody can see below your waist because he's absolutely fucking naked. I saw it earlier. Let's see. Anyways, we want to thank you for coming on, brother. Yeah. Yeah. Dude, I'm a goat. We definitely want to thank, he is one of my good homies. We chat a lot, you know, all that. And it's a little bit of a vibe into our world. We didn't even get to talk about how he lost his sister's innocence or what brought him to the butt stuff world. There's a lot of unturned stones that we can get back to. I'm glad I didn't have to cry this whole episode, you know. Indeed. He only cries after sex, so it's okay. So. But anyway, Matt can do the outfield. Thank you for coming out. So next week, starting next week, I'm fucking done with Instagram. Especially after tonight, fuck Instagram. Like, I couldn't add anyone to the shows, none of that shit, so it's YouTube from now on out. Next week, not so it will not be with me. I may have someone else in his place. We'll see who to get. We also have our Patreon, go to Bridger Syndicate Patreon, or Google Bridger Syndicate Patreon, and you can find all of our Patreon stuff there. We go there, hang out, shoot the shit all the time. There's lots of extras for everyone there. We have a $50 slot we just added, and there's a monthly gift for each person, a part of that. What else is there? Check out Riotseeds.com for my spray, seeds. We're getting closer to getting lots of, getting to release some stuff. I hear there might be a collab with CSI coming up soon, which I'm super excited about to see. But yes, please remember, go follow Riotseeds. Just go to Google, type in Riotseeds YouTube. You can find it that way, subscribe. Make sure you click the bell icon, move it to all, so you get all the notifications, because next week, no more fucking Instagram. And because of that, I'll be able to add in pictures. I can put together videos with slideshows, all kinds of cool shit to illustrate while we're talking. There'll be a much better presentation and all that shit, so yeah. Anyways, thanks again, rings. It's been great to see you, brother, and we really appreciate you popping your chair with us. Enjoy your Friday night. Thank you for listening to us. Pleasure as always. Cheers. Night night.