 Hi, folks. Welcome. Thanks. There will be no project album in this symposium, so if you want to move down, it's okay. But if my stage dive could be kind of a problem. Anyway, welcome to the Under the Radar Professional Symposium. Thanks for coming. Mark Russell, I'm the director of the festival and your host this morning. And it's great to see you all here. So many good friends, new friends. I want to mention that this symposium is being streamed live today. Compliments of new play TV. Thank you, David Dower and B.J. Matthew and Holly Carl. For putting that together for us. If you are not supposed to be here, i.e. your wife thinks you're in a tractor convention in Ohio. Back in 2005, Oscar used his invite to the festival to be a part of his inaugural season as artistic director of the theater, of the public theater. After seven years, amazing years, Under the Radar is now a core project of the public theater. Oscar's visionary leadership has brought the public to the center of the American theater world. It's a partnership I truly cherish. And it's great to work here beside Oscar and our new executive director, Patrick Willie. It is my pleasure to introduce you two as to welcome Oscar Eustis. Thank you, Mark. Although it shows a really, really poor grasp of history to suggest that I put the public theater at the center of the American theater. One of the things that I'm proudest of about this place is that this place from the moment it started was convinced that any ghettoization of artists was as destructive as ghettoization of people. Sure, Joe ran the New York Shakespeare Festival. I'm proud of the New York Shakespeare Festival. Then he opened this building with hair, the first thing other than Shakespeare he had ever produced. And we're standing on a stage that has been the proud home of nature theater of Oklahoma and the original production of Chorus Line. And then we closed King Lear on a few weeks ago. That wealth and breadth of work is what the public stands for. And, you know, the other thing that I feel like we're going to have to examine thoroughly is the truth value of the name under the radar. This is the least under the radar thing that we do with the public at this point. I think those big pictures in the time sort of make the title illegitimate. What's fantastic about that is the fact that the theater as an art form doesn't believe in walls. It doesn't believe in barriers and it ultimately doesn't believe in people staying in their ghettos. It believes that everything is permeable. Every act is a human act. And that Shakespeare and new musicals and new plays with cabaret and experimental work and independent ensembles and solo artists actually have more in common and more to learn from each other than they do by staying separate. And the beauty of having Mark and May in here as core members of the artistic staff of this theater is that that's being borne out in practice from Mike Daisy to Tarell McCraney's work to Gov Squad. There are crossovers that are happening and cross fertilization that's happening between the work that is not primarily based on scripts, between devised work. I mean, you come up with a nomenclature. I'm sure you argue about it more than I do. But between that work that is not based primarily off of the work of a playwright and the work of this theater, which historically has been, there is a vibrant and wonderful dialogue going on. Nothing but good can result from that. We are honored to have, under the radar, part of the public. We're honored to have you here. We're incredibly grateful to everybody. I'd like to give a particular shout out to the Mellon Foundation. My deep love, Susan, is here today who have been indispensable partners in all that we have done. And forgive me, anybody else I'm sliding, but I'm just, I just got to say good-bye to Susan today. And welcome, and I think this is going to be a fantastic festival. Thank you. For all of our formative years, we were supported as a project of the Association of Performing Arts Crew Centers under the leadership of Sandra Gibson. APAP has a new boss, Mario Garcia-Burham, at formerly of the NEA, and before that the year of the Buenos Center in San Francisco. Mario, would you like to say a few words? Great. To be here among wonderful colleagues and old dear friends, and young dear friends, I want to give a special thanks to you, Mark, for all the pleasure and joy we've had over the years working together on various projects. And now as I take my new role, I look forward to working with you. I also want to thank Oscar and the staff here, and all of you who make this symposium possible. Arts presenters have been a collaborator with Under the Radars since the beginning. And I want to thank Sandra Gibson because I know she showed great leadership in doing that. And we're very proud of this association. And I know that when I was at the National Endowment, it was my great pleasure to support projects like this. And I know we had an incarnation on the West Coast that we supported. So I really love this work. I think that the creation and support of new work is crucial to the vitality of the field and the cultivation of new artists, which I hold to my core as being so extremely important. And support of this work is at the heart of what we would like to do on a constant basis as presenters, making new connections between artists and projects and audiences. And that is at the core of what we do. I hope that you will take the work that you see here and spread it far and wide around the country because in my position at the NEA I saw how key projects like this were so critical to the sharing of new work, new ideas, new thoughts, new directions in the arts of this country. I want to invite you to the speed dating session tomorrow from 9.30 until 12.30 at the Hilton for more conversations. And I want to keep these comments brief so have a great symposium, best of hope and conference. And thank you all for being here. Thank you, Mario. Today's program and the whole festival would not have been possible without the support of people and organizations, many of them. First of all I would like to thank the Andrew W. Mellon Foundation and their continued support of our field. They have made it possible for UTR to flourish and I thank Susan Federer and Katie Turrick and Diane Ragsdale for believing in us. The Ford Foundation has also been instrumental in supporting our work thanks to Roberta Huno and Darren Walker. The Henson Foundation has continued to ensure that my personal puppet habit is complete and for that I am truly grateful. I want to recognize the trust for mutual understanding, the Adam Mikovic Institute, the Polish Cultural Institute, the British Council, Culture Ireland, the Marche region of Italy, the Goethe Institute and the National Performance Network for their support of the individual projects in this festival. And we could not be here without our partner venues. This year it's the Japan Society, thank you Yoko. Here Performing Arts Center and especially down the street, Lomama. Our project partners this year are Performance Base 122, 651 Arts, Shay Wafer and the LaGuardia Performing Arts Center. Thank you for all your support of these projects. There are many more to be recognized and I hope you will take a moment before your shows to look at our sponsors, but if you poach them I will find you. I must recognize the popular and fabulous Public Theater staff, who just as everyone else's season is winding down for the holidays, we ask them to step it up and do 14 shows in 12 days. You will meet all of our amazing interns who have been working on this festival since September. I want to recognize our Legion of Volunteers. These are artists, there are future administrators and probably our future funders. And I want you to meet our new employee Andrew Kircher, who has been our production manager and consultant for many years, but now is an official associate producer of the festival. Andrew, are you in the room? Good, he's working out there. And finally, well not finally, but last not least, my true partner in crime and punishment, Mei Yin-Wang, my associate artistic director, this festival could not happen without her genius. This year at the symposium, we are focusing on our international side. In fact, we've gone all the way over to camp. Thank you, Susan Sontag, and called it the United Nations of Under the Radar. Hence we got a carpet and some flag. Consider yourselves delegates, but this does not mean you get international diplomatic immunity. We are facing a lot of challenges in the US today. Politically, socially, financially. We are headed into a year of presidential campaigns. Before that happens, I thought this was a good moment to examine our own situation through the lens of other countries, many facing similar issues. How are they dealing with the rise of right wing politics? How are they dealing with changing generations and decimated cultural infrastructures? How are they dealing with burst financial bubbles and its interesting, pernicious effect on free speech? Hearing their stories can provide a perspective and clarity to our own struggles. We have a very full agenda. For the morning, we will be here in this room, the Newman Theater. We will not be taking a break this morning or maybe a very short one. If you must visit the facilities, just excuse yourself and our volunteer will show you the way to the restrooms. I don't know if anyone knows, they're down towards Joe's Pub down this hallway. First, we have some reports from abroad, UN style. And I ask each of these artists to address us and tell us about the cultural situation in their country and also to speak about their vision of the future of theater. Please welcome. Welcome up to the stage, if you will, folks. Representing the nation of Italy, the artistic directors of Motus, Eriko Casagrande and Daniela Nicolo. Are you ready? Representing the nation of Turkey, Aika Damgasi and Toshiki Okada. Representing the nation of Italy, the artistic directors of Motus, Eriko Casagrande and Daniela Nicolo. Motus brought us too late, Antigone Contest number two, which happened last year on this stage. It was such a powerful performance and resonated so much with our political cultural environment that we invited them to bring two other performances back this year. Alexis agreed tragedy and the plot is the revolution, a collaboration with Judith Molina. Please welcome Eriko and Daniela. Thank you. Good morning everybody. So we tried to speak about our company, Motus, and the relation with Eriko in our situation and sorry for our broken English, for sure you can understand and know a lot about us. All right. So Motus is a lacking word, meaning movement, transformation, physical motion and also emotional thought. The idea of movement involves all aspects of our independent artistic adventure. We began away from the great production centers that propagate theater in Italy, but at the same time regulated and unfortunately put the brakes on. Now we are both here, me and Daniela. This tofu presence has always been at the heart of Motus. There is continually an interchange of ideas and also the relation sometimes with a third reference with whom we share a privileged dialogue. For the moment it's Silvia Cardedoni, our Antigone. We set out of our theatrical experience united by the love for Samuel Beck's writing for his characters in continuous movement. The construction of the text influenced our own way to sing the stage, always avoiding linear methods of narration. We create hybrid shows that often confuse even the critics. They didn't know where to place us. Is theater is not theater? Good, good question, but just question. We have never liked to be defined or put in a box. For us doing theater has always been a tool of knowledge and study. It isn't market, it isn't show, it's a life. It challenges the established order of things, great fracture, laceration, disorientation, and above all poses questions. In 2000, after 10 years of working in an underground theater completely without subsidies, we left our little real subspace and began a nomadic resistance with a lot of residencies in Italy and abroad and production all over. Always changing the real subspace means that you have to restart each time, build a new house, never on the foundations of the previous one. For each new theater project, it's become more and more necessary to make an exploration trip, to begin work outside of the real-time room to intercept material in the worth of things. I live in things from Pier Paolo Pasolini poem. It is also the title of our latest book about our travels between deserts and suburbs. Always deeper into contemporary junk space to quote Renkula's where you are unsure about where you are, unclear about where you are going, and the place where you were has already disappeared. The model stand animates us is movement, no escape, but openness to the unexpected. Let's reflect a little. The villages and migrations lie at the origin of the entire history of the West, like those of Ulysses who left family and friends behind to begin an endless wandering. And Antigone herself leaves the palace to follow her father, Edipus, on a journey without destination toward Nurpan, as Ari Bouchot writes in his verifying book, Antigone and Edipus are welcome and given hospitality everywhere today. Today they rejects illegal immigrants subject to the law of zero tolerance. Openness to listening, to welcome the outside, the other, is more than anything else, a prerogative of the artistic world. Someone described our theater as art of the outside, which doesn't mean to represent, rather to present itself, to offer itself, and we will add with joy. Gilles Deleuze defines joy, a sort of trampoline, that helps us through something we might never have overcome. He uses a great metaphor about learning to swim. Being unable to swim means that you are at the mercy of the wave. The wave can drag you away, overturn you, but if you dive into it and emerge at the right moment, you can use its momentum to go further. There it is, in this synchronicity of movement with the outside lies a possible representation of artistic freedom, similar to the passion of a love. A passion which we found in the Greeks, people, and which is perhaps being arose again in Italy, we hope, really, now. In exactly a quarter in Athens, we respect that the only way we have to avoid pain for the crisis is to get out of the classic scheme of protest. To become ungovernable, to ourselves becomes their crisis. And this is also true for theatrical language. What's going to happen now? The last question in Alexis, our performance. On stage, the clears that in her view, the key lies in words she saw written on a wall in Athens. We come from the future. The ongoing revolts in Greece, the uprising in North Africa, which are spreading all over, means that the presence of an extended and critical mass of young people, including artists, I hope, is decided to wake up and shift the axis. They stand in the future because they are the future, a future which actually and all well paint in oblique shades, but may it have some surprises stored. And it's precisely the images of the future, including Utopian ones, that we are dedicating our upcoming project, Making the Plot, a very tough challenge. But it's exactly, exactly when Utopia becomes unimaginable that it is necessary. Thank you. So, representing Turkey is the actress and producer. I'm tearing up her name, but she'll have her say it with, Aicha, who is bringing us Ozan Yula's Lik But Don't Swallow. Aicha is a film and theater actress in Istanbul and a producer. Lik But Don't Swallow is one of the most humorous and provocative shows in this festival. Please welcome Aicha. Hello, everybody. Of course, it's a big, big, big pleasure to be here. But first of all, I want to thank you, the playwright of the display, Ozan Yula, and the very talented directors, Birikan, Melis Tezgan and Okan Urun, and to this very beautiful festival under the radar, who believe us, who invited us here without their support and invitation, we won't be here. So, I would like to thank these names, these people, very much because if they are not here, we won't be here. So, I want to give a brief, very brief picture about how Turkey is today and what kind of agenda we are in, what kind of environment we are in and we are waking up every morning in that country. So, like, more than 70 people, people living in Turkey and we have, you know, borders with Iraq, Iran, Syria, Armenia, Greece, Algeria. So, we're in all with their issues. And more than 10 different languages spoken in Turkey, like Turkish, Kurdish, Armenian, Greek Orthodox language, Greek language, Arabic. But in the constitution, it says the official language of Turkey is Turkish. And under the circumstances of the Civil War, since 30 years, many have been killed or had to leave their home. And more than 16 millions of people are under poverty line, poverty line. So, you can hear variation of atrocities every day, but also since couple of years, every day approximately five women are killed or beaten by their husbands or by men. And more than 60 journalists have been arrested and hundreds of academicians have been arrested lately because of the cooperation with terrorist organizations, whatever. So, the army is bombing civilians and children. And, yeah, this is the picture we're living in. So, while the political agenda is full of these cases, I want to, I mean, the all-cultural, main cultural activities, theater activities, they're going on in big cities. In Istanbul, in the capital of Ankara, in Izmir, a few big cities. But for the rest, for the rest, I must tell that there's a huge gap, huge gap between those cities. So, then I want to give a little bit picture of the Turkish theater. I mean, like elsewhere in this world, there are mostly two main streams. The one, the government and the national theater and the municipalities theater, which is supported by government and local government, which means you can have huge productions with high costs and all your actors are being paid monthly as government offers. And they have to accept the given vision, whether they like it or not. So, they exist in a convention and they always have the guarantee of audience. And so, their reperteries are generally classics and even when they say some contemporary plays, you can sense a convention in order to reach more public or you can see more public morals in these things. Well, regarding private theaters, some of the lucky ones, they get subvention from the government regarding to their age and prestige, but these monies are really, even not enough to cover one production or less. So, the little groups, which I'm a part of it, who are staging more open in place, which are usually stuck in the basements and in some tiny roof floors, has the most potential of course and of course they are the pioneers of, I think, Turkish theater. And of course they suffer the most because lack of money and for example, and there's another thing, if they really want to sell their productions, they usually promote for an eligible minority and make an in-your-face package. And of course the actors earn doesn't any money, they have to work in other jobs and mostly in TV. And of course, this is another crisis for actors because TV people even don't like actors who work in theater because they always have rehearsals, they complain. And in Turkey, so yeah. In Turkey, the donation or the support kind of networks or they're not powerful as much as US because people have other fundamental priorities like living and eating. So they don't have the common idea that art is a fundamental need of societies. I must admit that. So this is briefly the political and artistic picture. I don't want to make generalizations but this is how, what kind of darkness I am living in. So after this, after many years, I ask myself really, really who for whom we are doing this business sometimes, I ask myself. I mean just, I'm quickly skipping the answer to be able to express ourselves, to be able to have a space of course, but who are the people coming to see our shows? I mean, if the audience are the ones more or less sharing the same political perspective or the people almost from the same socio-economical class, it means we're making a little glass managerie and let's say a solidarity field in these tiny rooms or basements. I mean, but how we can go, how we can move forward than that. I'm really after this question because do we still have the desire of changing things in this world or is reflecting is enough for changing? And I think globally we're in the age of consumption with these isolation cell kind of life models. We are watching massacres, genocides. Also we're after big entertainment shows, porn movies and in the middle of these extremes what kind of theater we should be after? What is the form or what is the context? And actually while we are preparing Lick But Don't Swallow, we were all moved by these ideas. I mean, our really aim was to rock the same socio-economical background of people like us and to make a very humorous and provocative play. I mean, in a way, kind of negative print of the middle class people who doesn't want to change the world but eating pizza, talking in front of TV and watching these war embedded journalists, whatever. So, but unluckily, some of you know or some of you don't know, we bumped into a huge conservatism because of the subject of the play. The Islamic newspaper attacked us and targeted us and it was such a shame. I mean, because the people who really wanted to attack the theater, the theater we're going to perform, they are the people we were interested in their stories. They were the people who were helping us to carry the props to theaters, you know. But then you see they are your enemies. That was such a shame, I think. So how we prepared the play is we had zero money. I mean, we rehearsed in a very, very strange bar in the coldest season with a few eating and we had to wipe out the trash every morning but that was okay, we worked like this. But in the young theaters in Turkey or the radical theaters, I observed something to put up yourself sincerely and really in a sincere way is an uptight problem. This is also because of the totalitarian military structure in the Turkish society and system. But also, I think it's also a little bit West and East issue because I think it's a big habit to import from West since more than 100 years for Turkey. I mean, instead of exploring and sensing what is really going on in the collective memory or the communal subconscious of the society, theaters import formats, for intakes like this in your face, they don't judge whether it suits their own imagination or their own needs. So I think confrontation is a very, very important word or a move and societies and artists who's not willing to lens themselves will witness their annihilation. This is what I believe. And another question which is really on my mind since a long time, how can theater run out on streets? We can easily say that in Turkey there could be at least 50 millions of people who never saw a theater play in their life, at least, so maybe 60. So, I mean, how can we reach the shopkeeper? How can we reach to this bail seller? This is on my mind. I mean, you can say I do high art, it doesn't interest me, okay, I accept this, but today, I mean, in order to create a feast, or a katharsis or a karnamalesk, what do we do? We only go to a little tiny rooms, dark rooms and share our ideas with 50 people. And is that it? I ask myself. So, even let's say a feast example in New York, I saw in Gay Pride, it become really commercial because you see fences, borders everywhere, you can say there's a free speech, but I think there's a series, series categories and restrictions in the US, I can see this. I mean, so, also another thing, which provides as a space, the International Theater Festivals, I think this interaction is very fulfilling, inspiring, it moves me along, really. But then, I see artists start to think you can find yourself in a position that you create for these festivals, so you start to sell your work. Then again, I ask myself, what is the function of the International Theater Festivals? Is it going to be in a protected area of a question for an exclusive minority? Or is theater is a feast that you can search and unite with your comrades for more? Really, I am looking for this answer or questions. How are we going to find inspiration to move on? I mean, how are we going to find the producers to believe us? Actually, in Turkey, there's not such a thing called producers in theater. So, if you want to create something, you have to be the producer. There's no other. I mean, yeah. Maybe I pictured you a very dark tunnel like the Kafka, Kafkaist way. But for me, really, theater people should consider they are the shamans, they are storytellers of modern times. And theater people are the ones who feel the zeitgeist, the spirit of time, who they feel the massacres, genocides, the atrocities of their age and the collective memory of the universe. I mean, because the final level of becoming a shaman is to see that this big dream, you know, in this big dream that all your bones will be apart from each other and then reconstruct in your new spirit. So, I can see no other way than deconstructing ourselves, being critical, merciless to our beliefs, ideologies, the aesthetic forms that we constantly fathom and turn our performances to a Dionysian celebration. Thank you. One of those, the USIA, I think that's the agency that came and she went where we, they try to have artists from abroad learn about America and how much better we run our heart. And anyway, after about our short interview, she gave us a little DVD and we went back and popped it in our player that we have between Megan and I. And before she left the building, we were on the phone to find her and bring her back. So, I'm so happy that Lick with Don't Swallow is in our season. Representing the nation of Japan is the writer and director, Toshiki Okada, who opens hot pepper, air conditioner and the farewell speech at the Japan Society tonight. Toshiki is a true visionary theater maker and I'm very honored that he is able to be here today delivering his speech to us in English. Thank you very, very much. It's great honor to be here and thank you for inviting us and our show to the end of the later, Mark. Thank you. What I'd like to tell you today is about how I have observed the current Japanese situation of Japanese theater and how I think it should be changed. This idea was so influenced by our experience of the recent disaster happened on March 11th in last year and consequent catastrophe and political disorder. Japanese contemplative theater is now struggling how to relate itself to the society. In other words, contemplative theater is now being required to contribute to public interest, no matter which it is about intention or other result. I expect that Japanese theater makers would do their best to look for the way to realize it. I have to say that Japanese theater has been lazy to make connection itself to the society and also have neglected to be conscious of public interest. I think because nobody has cared if theater makers are conscious of society or public interest and also because nobody has requested them to create a piece which has value to contribute to the society. As a result, almost all artists in the generation or younger have never had been seriously conscious of such a problem. But it doesn't make sense anymore to think it's okay to be politically ignorant just because such ignorance has been the standard for a long time. Because of such a peaceful society, we Japanese theater makers have kept our mentality ignorant of interest to social, political and public interest. The public states however the change of current mentality is required to take place. It was provoked by the disaster. Japanese theater makers can no longer be indifferent to the potential of their work to connect to the society. It is a very unfamiliar situation for us. We never be conscious of such the issue ever before. There are two options ahead of us. One is venturing to explore a way to contribute to public interest. The other is not reacting to this situation and the distance oneself from unfamiliar to Italy. I believe Japanese theater should take the former option. We are required to change and develop the idea about the public interest. Even if the disaster or nuclear catastrophe had not happened, there's such a change it necessarily. The society of Japan does not have much idea of public interest. We theater artists are remaining to be unfamiliar to think about contribution to public interest. While we are getting public support it is quite weird situation but this weirdness is the reality of current Japanese theater industry. It is not the reality of current Japanese theater but also of current Japanese society itself. But let's confine the topic to the theater here. It is a disease to leave this weirdness as it is and it is impossible to have such situation as it is. It's time to damp the notion that change is impossible unless artists imagination or younger start developing the idea of contribution to public interest. The situation would never change. I hope it must be realized. I hope the disaster has worked as a crucial trigger for it. If we cannot utilize this opportunity to change ourselves we would never excuse ourselves. The fact that we neglected the idea of contribution to public interest is the negative things. However I'd rather try to look at its positive side as the negligence is now giving our generation the opportunity to start from scratch to build up the idea about the issue of theater's contribution to public interest. If we do it well we can even develop our own way to connect arts and society close together our own way which is not only different from the one maintained in Europe but even with stronger persuaded power. Thank you. So that was going to be the end of our program but there was this sort of e-mail campaign and I had to expand the public addresses and so under duress we've put in this project representing the puppet nation is Moses and his hopeful entourage a blind summit from the UK blind summit is known for the puppetry in Madame Butterfly the Metropolitan Opera and their own inventive shows the table which is at LaMama for only three or four performances now won several fringe awards at this year's Edinburgh Fringe Festival please welcome Moses. Just extreme puppetry puppetry today the state of puppetry of course is a small country in the former Soviet Union just recently released I could tell you all about the history of the country the formation of the country in the early 1100s by an invasion of the Chinese hand puppets the terrible massacre of the Marinets in 1605 the dark ages ushered in by a period of shadow puppetry read about the state of puppetry there is more to look at the what has made we're currently in a fashion puppetry is sort of fashionable at the moment and I want to think a little bit about how that's come about and how we make sure that it continues make sure that it's a firm it's on a firm setting so an example I want to talk about something I only recently heard about from the 70s I believe the dead arm problem the dead arm problem it's not something I've heard about until quite recently as you probably already know I am a three man operated Japanese bunraku style tabletop puppet with interchangeable parts that means I'm operated by three people I live on top of a table and I can change all my parts oh yes madam you're a puppeteer you want to be a puppeteer? yeah I know you'll come be a good help you can certainly practice normally I'm a bunraku puppet B-U-N-R-A-K-U from Japan three let me introduce you to the puppeteers I'm not actually live actually that's fairly obvious I'm not actually alive this is just an illusion of life I can easily be dead or not alive it's a limited to language that you're talking about so the three puppeteers Mark here is holding my head Sean is on my right hand and Nick is on my feet improvisation essentially there's some unpredictable as it happens following three basic principles focus, breathing and fixed point first of all focus there is two parts to focus what I'm looking at for example what puppeteers are looking at if they look at me I am in focus if they look up it's fixed point now this is a little harder to explain with the wall the best way to demonstrate it refers to puppetry it's just to show you it wrong so this is no fixed point it looks pretty cool but it's unrealistic essentially and of course it creates a feeling of no gravity yes hello do ice skating in snow running man on a running machine very good okay okay all using fixed point breathing now breath has four parts I breathe in I hold I breathe out every anywhere hold so I'm able to breathe such life life walking movements singinky okay focus breathing and fixed point this is how the illusion i lusion of life if created in what is essentially a carnival bolt in a pair of curtains essentially its these three puppeteers I'll demonstrate the dead arm problem, which is a problem I heard of later, which is essentially operating a free man puppet with two men, or all ladies. I heard of this recently called the dead arm problem, and essentially it's a man power problem. It's an underfunding issue, which is where I am actually leading, because essentially I think one of the reasons for the popularity of puppetry in recent years has been the proper fully manpower of the puppets. And we see this in some very successful shows in this town, in London, and all around the world, involving lions, horses, and the furry animals living on the streets. And essentially what I think is very important is in order to maintain a good standard of puppetry, and to keep it popular, and to keep it able to develop the art form, we need to invest and continue to do everything we can to encourage the performers, the puppeteers, to take it as seriously as possible and be able to do the work. And that brings me finally to just say thank you to under the radar, because essentially it's festivals like this inviting us to come and do these ridiculous things that we're doing, and encourage us to keep experimenting and trying new things with puppets. Thank you very much. Have a great festival. Try to get the files from these folks and put them up on, so you can read them on the under the radar website. And now it's time for a very short break. Coffee is still in Joe's pub. I want to see you back here in 15 minutes. Thank you very much.