 Chief Executive Officer of the NNPCL Milikiari says that President Ballatinovou has ordered palliative secretion effects of subsidy removal and NLC says no going back on the proposed nationwide strike. This is cross-politics, I am Mary Annicole. The Group Chief Executive Officer of the Nigerian National Petroleum Company Limited NNPCL Milikiari has disclosed that President Ballatinovou has ordered the putting in place of palliatives to cushion the effect of removal of fuel subsidy on Nigerians. He also insisted that there was no going back on subsidy removal as it was quite apparent that Nigeria can no longer afford the subsidy payment. The NNPCL boss who disclosed this after a meeting behind closed doors with members of the National Working Committee of the ruling or progressive Congress at the party's National Secretariat in Abuja on Thursday said the NNPCL won't continue to be the sole importer of oil in the country. Kiari also confirmed ongoing rehabilitation of the nation's four refineries saying one of them will start operating this year. Now joining us to discuss this is Kat Anu Nuju. He is a public affairs analyst and also joining us later will be Jide O'Logan who is a legal practitioner. Mr. Anu Nuju, so good to have you join us. Good evening. Thank you very much for having me. Great. The saying that we always put the cart before the horse in this country seems to be the case that we're finding ourselves in since last week Tuesday. Many have queried why the subsidy removal was done in the way and it was as opposed to processes put in place and then of course rolling it out in phases but then of course your politician you probably understand better why the presidency must have gone about this way. What are your thoughts? Well thank you very much for bringing this up. I will tell you straight up that this APC administration has never done anything properly in the past eight years since they've been to power. They've not conducted relations well. They've not run the country well. They've not kept the economy well. The GDP has fallen very very much. It was in excess of 550 billion but today after eight years it fell down to about 423. So a lot has not worked well and now they talked about removing the subsidy. We believe when they challenge removal of the subsidy as proposed by President Goodluck Jonathan at that particular time of challenge there were palliatives that were released by the President Goodluck administration. Where are the palliatives for today? If you remove the subsidy everybody's saying all the candidates say they will remove subsidy but they have talked about how they will do it. Some say they will do it in stages. A lot of them say they will do it. They provide palliatives. Where are the bosses for the workers? Where are the ameliorating things that will actually bring down the very harsh effects of this particular policy on the poor? We've not talked about all that and I don't understand what's behind this but don't forget since 2016 the NMPC had been the exclusive importer of petrol. So if we say the subsidy is fraudulent look to NMPC. If we say that we have been given our oil imported into Nigeria subsidized by Nigeria Task Force this morning and it is being the main state of economies like that of Cameroon, economies like that of Charles, economies like that of Niger, economies like that of Ben the Republic. How come we didn't know this all along? We knew this all along and that was why President Goodluck said to remove the subsidy. These people who have said no they will go against it and I'm not saying the reasons in that decision. Did they think about the palliatives and the other instrumentations that had to come in? I don't want the subsidy to say I want it to be removed but you don't just remove it. You do that and you plan, you bring in the palliatives. When you take it out there are things you must bring to ameliorate the gaps it will create. It is because of that lack of planning that we are complaining. Not that it's a bad thing to remove subsidy. No, it's a good thing to remove subsidy but you must remove it in plan, in understanding that once you have a think in the cost of transportation that will affect everything. I am happy that the government is finally deciding to go away from their sustained activity in the energy market. For me I consider that to be a distortion. I really like it. As I said earlier there is no subsidy just a scam. I agree with him. Now that you say you're removing it how have you planned to take care of the effects of this removal which we have not seen? And don't you get the theme subsidy has not been removed. If it has been removed the market will be free. There is a lot of impurities in the prices system that we have. What are you telling me? All you've done is you do no more give the subsidy payments to those businessmen who were there. You are now collecting it yourself only at NNPC. We need to look at the cost. The cost we've seen now is not representative of the truth. 550 Naira is not the true cost of petrol when they land in Nigeria. Let us interrogate these mathematics presented to us currently by NNPC limited. I don't agree with him. The president had spoken. He put out a lot of statements. Most importantly he had talked about the fact that all those who are responsible for monies that are missing those who have been involved in the corruption in the oil sector especially for fuel subsidy need to be brought to book immediately and he sounded more like this has to be done as soon as possible. Now looking at of course the administration is still very fresh by the way it's barely a week old. Do they have what it takes because again let's do a quick flashback to the Bahá'í administration when president Bahá'í former president Bahá'í came into power a lot of people rolled on the body language the sternness he talked tough a lot of people you know felt that if the president at the time sneezed the whole country would catch cold but eight years down the line we don't necessarily have anything great to say in terms of the fight against corruption. So if this president is talking tough as we speak do you see any change taking place any time soon and how do you think that that will happen being that there is a cabal as we all know that is running this particular sector? Well that is a very loaded question. I do not think President Bolatini Buu has the way we're to right now to act autonomously because of the circumstances of his come about since he knows that those who installed him may look up to him to show loyalty to what they have done for him I do not think that he has yet gotten the autonomy of thought and of person to act against them because who are you talking about? Melechiari is there Melechiari was in charge since 2016 of the NMPC when the NMPC became the sole importer of this petrol Melechiari was also there when the crude was being stolen and then he took the complaint of Mr. Pitobi who said that the thieves of the crude that we have known for the past three months had any accreditation to our sovereign accounts are in government and it is true when Mr. Pitobi stated that it was investigated and it was found to be true the people who were stealing the crude are in government where are they they're not the Ministry of Health they're not the Ministry of Communication they are at NMPC so how can Mr. Pitobi tough on the people who were part of those who brought into power acrobatically and the people are still the people we believe to be the thieves now he will not fight them immediately he will take his time because the way we test you have to be very careful if you receive a stolen property you don't start making noise before those who get it to you will tell the police the property you sell to the state yes see who has it so we need to play gently if you look at through these caches there are two war battles one the battle of those who for the past eight years have pinned Nigeria down secondly the battle against the processes that brought in the current president which is what you've seen in the court so you need to be very careful a lot of course have to also be very mindful of that we have now achieved the first which is removing Buhari and his band of impunity protagonists and that includes Mr. Melekriari before Sinibu can do anything tangible Mr. Melekriary must leave the energy are you still there Mr. Anidu I think we lost that connection for you so and then you know that I think so I believe I believe that the only way for Mr. Sinibu to go about this thing he must ask Melekriary and those who ran the oil operations for the past eight years to leave it is only when they have left that you cannot bring in neutral people that will be able to interrogate the past you cannot how do you tell them to leave if the probing doesn't begin the probing does have to begin I mean you can't just tell them to leave telling them to leave doesn't solve the problem if there is a cabal running the system then there has to be a probe into that particular system telling the man to go is not enough I mean let's let's also do a flash back to Professor Ponday where is Professor Ponday so asking a man to live does that solve the problem well why I'm telling you this you oh I think that we're having a little connection problem there with Mr. Katch can you hear me now have to leave I can hear you can hear me all right go ahead yes yes please you cannot ask the people you are accusing of having stolen our patronage to stay in court why you want to prove them no you must get them to go then you put brand new people then you start interrogations Melakriary cannot stay at NNPC for ten able to do any interrogation is not going to work he must leave him and his band of people who have won this system so we can get fresh people and then ask some questions but you can't look the same people that have committed your face the same people that are running NNPC and did not contribute ten Naira to the traditional accounts you now want to ask them to be the judge over their own interrogation it's not going to work let them go so that we'll be able to interrogate our past let's talk about palliatives because I remember this word was a big thing during the covid season um palliatives became one of the buzzwords but here we are again talking about palliatives apparently the national assembly um and of course the PDP presidential candidate um former vice president Atikua Bubaka some of the people who have called for president in able to put in place palliatives I go back to my earlier question of putting the cart before the host now in Nigeria if you follow the trajectory there has been subsidy removal for diesel and kerosene where's that money that we saved on diesel and kerosene and how how easy has it been for that again just as you mentioned Al-Iran if we're taking out subsidy or stopping the payments of subsidy for petroleum are we saving money how much are we saving and also Melikeari has told us that the refineries are going to be up and running at least one before the end of this year and I'm thinking to myself why were all of these processes not put in place before now and I mean because these things would have one way or the other and Melikeari I'm wondering they could have ameliorated the sufferings of Nigerian as opposed to waiting to take out give us this statement and of course allow us to go through the whole drama and then seek palliatives this is where I'm going what sorts of palliatives do you think the government can give to Nigerians as we speak that can ameliorate the sufferings because transportation has quadrupled not doubled not tripled quadrupled and of course one way or the other there will be a rippling effect on the economy and the cost of leaving what exactly do you think the Tinnable government will bring to the average Nigerian as palliatives that would suffice well you're talking about palliative I would tell you to forget it if you want to talk about how palliative works in Nigeria look to the COVID era and how this particular APC administration ran it there is no need trying to ask them to prove themselves you still have basic and the same set of people writing I will open our mindset in a better country and to do that we must start all over leave those people they have failed they've not been able to do anything for the past eight years think about bringing fresh people to start asking new questions and try to organize working when you when you say bring new people where are they bringing the new people from Mars Zimbabwe Kenya I'm just wondering because we're all have been eight years I do not expect anything good from those who have ruined our life in the past eight years yes but when you say we should bring new people where are we bringing them from Mars Kenya Zimbabwe maybe I'm wondering because just as you said at the beginning this is an APC handing over to an APC government what new people are we talking about and and where are they coming from good the APC in the years of Buhari was the APC in which Buhari employed nepotism as policy of government it did not mean that there went other Nigerians who are good from other parts of Nigeria Buhari mismanaged Nigeria's diversity and I will tell you that what I remember him for fundamental deceitful in managing our diversity so I believe Tinibu knows that our problem was Buhari did not manage Nigeria's diversity properly and if he wants to move forward he should understand Nigeria is a heterogeneously type of society and that's it you have these good people everywhere you have seen the primary reason why Buhari failed was because Buhari embraced nepotism as policy okay let's talk about because now that you've said we should just judge it in the idea of palliative because of how we saw it run under the Buhari administration but then Buhari is no longer president now it's a ball I met Tinibu but let's talk about our refineries which is very important um during the inauguration or the commissioning of the Dangota refinery got a lot of people talking and many people were very positive as to the fact that there would be some form of competition um you know with you know the emergence of the Dangota refinery but that competition would only happen if we had our refineries up and running but then last year if not the year before a trillion plus Naira was set aside for turnaround maintenance of these refineries people are still being paid salaries but these refineries are not refining anything now Melechiare is telling us that at least one of these refineries would be up and running by the end of the year why not all of them why one well Melechiare is just a story man uh if we couldn't do those things since he was there he can't do it now anybody believe in Melechiare's words he's just being foolish so I don't really think it's it's right that you mention it as I told you earlier if Tinibu wants to walk he must remove all those people who were brought there in the name of nepotism and try to assemble an assemblage of Nigerians from a diverse population and that's what a lot of us believe by the time he starts embracing the work that way in view of understanding the Nigeria is a diverse society those who have been protagonists and champions of nepotism will start to raise an army to fight him this is a very busy game and that you cannot change so you cannot start bringing palliative to give to the hands of those who run palliatives under the low system vis-a-vis under the covid regime those are not people you need before you can move forward talk to labor ask labor what do they think ask them how would they want palliatives to be done screams all of us have agreed including labor people that the government's active distortion of the energy market should stop and it should stop then let labor also say something because you're not going to put palliative distribution in the hands of those who handle palliatives during covid-19 no it is very very important that you now talk to labor it is very very very pertinent that anything you do for that thing you do to work you must care the people alone okay okay let me let me i think we're being joined by jido logo let's go to jido logo quickly and take his thoughts uh mr logo let me talk to labor okay okay i'm going to come back to you but let me go to jido logo um mr logo there's several things that if we're looking to other countries who have taken out subsidy or stopped subsidizing petrol in their countries let's take for example i mean i've heard people say well we need to start cycling we need to look for measures to ameliorate our sufferings because transportation has be like i said quadrupled but then you see in those countries they have systems that are put in place that can cushion the effect of subsidy removal like having electricity stable electricity good road networks and all kinds of things to make sure that the people don't i mean even a stable economy because you see the truth is our economy is a mess and even if you were to say well let's increase minimum wage everybody does not work on minimum wage right there are people who work for private companies and can all these companies including government afford a rise in minimum wage again like i said can these palliatives really work for us going forward talk about palliative you are talking about what you put in place to minimize the suffering that the people will experience because of your implemented a policy or because of a disaster for instance like the covid-19 and it means you are making life less stressful for them for this case now Nigeria has not even been proactive the subsidy has been removed suddenly the argument is not that subsidy should not be removed when you look at this camp surrounding the subsidy gate for how are you going to remove it that you will not add to the excruciating pain that the citizens are going through just mention the case of electricity for instance you can imagine having to run generator in your office in your home in your factory for instance transportation these are several questions that are on the minds of the people but having said that i did a deep analysis of the situation on ground the point is that the federal government does not even have the money for these so-called palliatives except if they are going to borrow money again because don't forget that right now we spend about 90 percent of our revenue to start your business our total indebtedness about 77 trillion naira and people are claiming that this subsidy we are talking about federal government is doing them on subsidy and mr. Anujuka you please mute yourself because we're hearing you go ahead mr. Logan there's a breaking news now that the digital industrial in abuja has stopped nlc from proceeding on that strike action on wednesday and the matter before the court has been adjourned until june 19 so and that gives the federal government for instance more opportunity to dialogue and negotiate with the stakeholders definitely this decision has brought more hardship upon nigerians but should subsidy go the answer is yes when you consider one fact that bothers me a lot that this nnpc that we are talking about that came up with this subsidy under the coinage of under recovery was established on the first of april 1977 to create common wealth for common good and until recently nnpc even remitted zero to the federal account and if you look at the international level right now as we speak some neighboring countries are adjusting their pms prices because reportedly despite the fact that the stakeholder in nigeria talking about nnpc and those who manage our oil and gas resources they inflate the liters of petrol they claim we consume daily they inflate the figures of the under recovery otherwise known as subsidy and after claiming this from the government small glass is smuggled these products to neighboring countries so we are we are you know we are engaging our problems and the nation substantially and in substantive manner right now the pain will come but the government also has to find a way of engaging the citizens and major stakeholders that they cushion the impact and i can let you know citizens are beginning to adjust and like i said what would have really held the federal government down has been prevented by the decision of the national industrial court today that that's like we put on hold except nlc wants to disobey the court order you know and that is where we are now we're talking about palliatives it's nigerian government even known for providing palliatives recently we read about the 800 million dollars that the federal government secured from the wall bank as part of his post subsidy palliative scheme and when you talk about post subsidy it means you are going to remove it then after that you start attending to the people it's not the best way to go what has happened to all our amenities that should be in place good transportation and everything and that money is supposed to give about 5000 naira it's about 50 million nigerians so what we 5000 naira do in an economy where the exchange rate the black market for dollar is about 770 naira so these are issues so we have serious problem in our hand can you hear me um actually the amount of money that was gotten by the wall bank or from the wall bank if you calculated it let's say to 200 million nigerians you come to I think about 12 000 naira per person and I'm wondering what 12 000 naira can do per person for one day that is what we are saying in fact the calculation is that the money will be disbursed to about 10 million households and when you do an extensive calculation that brings it to about 50 million nigerians even the 220 who are considered to be most vulnerable so how do you identify those who are vulnerable I am vulnerable I just mentioned it now I need to buy fuel to power my generator at home in the office I need to fuel the vehicles to do my business I need good roads and you know so these are issues and you see the big pain here is that you are making about 3.35 trillion naira for subsidy in the first half of the year you know it's it's it's it's really it's amazing it also it's it's really and we must deal with this problem once and for all and by extension what some stakeholders are saying is that go after the oil teams why are our refineries not working fix the substantive problems that we have and I hope that is what its government is out to achieve and let me say this according to the petroleum industry part subsidy has been removed and that is why the president in his statement said subsidy is gone but the report effects and reactions is what we are facing so whether we waited on to the elder of june or not subsidy in Nigeria should be dealt with and all the major presidential candidates for means to remove subsidy so how we go about it now it's a different ballgame entirely you know but those who plague the nation with their greed and wickedness must be dealt with the oil teams because when you talk about 3.35 trillion naira for subsidy in the first half of the year 2023 who are the people who are going to join it we know that NFC at the point in time became the sole importer of PMS and one of the arguments now is that you have to regulate that approach you know independent marketers can now step in to source their fuel locally and internationally and the government I believe is pressing towards having a single a unified foreign exchange regime so these are issues our economy needs is serious revamping doubtlessly and we hope that this government to be able to pull through and walk the talk like I said the fear that was in the air the proposed right that was supposed to start from witness day at the national industrial court has put that on hold you know so that the matter before the court can be dealt with so and that is where we are right now well let's hope that this is to hoping that something good comes out of this but unfortunately we have to wrap things up here did a little more is illegal practitioner captured under the drew is a public affairs analyst but the conversation continues after this break when we talk about the intended strike action and of course the legality surrounding it stay with us we'll be right back