 Mm-hmm. Actually, it's a big deal because this is their second attempt at running windows on An arm, I mean they've had No, it's good. Oh, did you see that Scott in our slack just said see you guys in an hour for the what Patrick got wrong this year event there is absolutely no basis for such a horrifyingly Aggressive remark. Yes, I think so. You should ban him from Facebook. I Think that's that's that should be our response to everything. That's gonna be my do thing. Oh, yeah Well, you're bad from Facebook now even though I you know, I'm we're not on Facebook. I'm not reporting you to Facebook That's just gonna be my response Well, hello everyone So I think the lineups fine now You fix the emails. Thank you Yeah, no, I was like wait a second. I just I Remembered putting putting them in in the order that I said No, it makes makes perfect sense. Um, yeah, and then I just Just in case you had read it before On line 43 I condensed both of them a bit. Yeah, thank you for that Of course Okay Is everybody ready to go? I'm ready Do a show. Yeah, let's Patrick was born in this state The state is ready Basically my catchphrase is I was born ready whenever Tom asks All right, sorry three two One the Daily Tech news show is brought to you by its global listener base not outside organizations to find out how you can contribute Go to Daily Tech news show comm slash support This is the Daily Tech news for December 5th 2017 from DTNS headquarters in Los Angeles I'm Tom Merritt and from studio feelin where there's a lot of fire smoke out of the beach I'm Sarah Lane and from the Finnish offices in Helsinki. I'm Patrick Beijo. I love how that sounds still I joined us also is our producer Roger Chang. How are you Roger? I am a Little I'm good. I'm good. He's under the weather. Apparently you've answered by coughing. I Apologize I have something in my throat. Okay, we'll let you take care of that and get into some tech things You should know The honor 7x phone is your story Sarah. So you should read it I will the honor 7x phone is now available in the US for pre-order for $200 delivering mid December It costs 270 pound sterling in the UK and 300 euros in Europe for some regions getting immediate shipping The 5.93 inch phone has a 2 to 1 display and a 2160 by 780 screen though no fast charging and no NFC Apple has begun selling an unlocked version of the iPhone 10 without a SIM card in the US Meaning you can activate it on any carrier You could also you could buy an unlocked phone previously by painful price But there was confusion about which models would work on which systems and all came with carrier SIM cards I was in getting a laptop repaired at an Apple store And I heard three different employees give three different answers on whether you could buy a phone unlocked Before this happens for this will help clear that up Samsung has begun mass production of the first 512 gigabyte embedded universal flash storage chip Paving the way for phones with 512 gigabytes of storage on one chip nice slim 512 gigabyte phones Chip has 860 megabyte per second sequential read speed 255 megabyte per second sequential write speed essentially that means you could pull over a 5 gigabyte HD video in about six seconds Google has pulled YouTube from the Amazon Echo show you might be like again Yes again and also announced that after January 1st YouTube will no longer work on fire TV boxes Google says part of the problem is Amazon doesn't carry Chromecast and Google Home and doesn't make Prime video available for Google Cast Yeah, but these these companies won't abuse their dominant market of positions. I swear. I swear Isn't that competition though, I Guess which extent maybe arguably yeah, yeah Now here are some more top stories Patrick Neiman labs Nicholas Nicholas Qua said he has learned that Apple acquired the pop-up archive Which makes tools that transcribe organize and search audio files its podcast search engine shut down November 28 Apple is still working on podcasts. I know that's why this is such big news I saw it like a near the top of tech meme today. I like okay. Yeah, I guess people were that worried. I Mean was anyone Under the impression that Apple was moving away from podcasts. No I'm not the thing is you're never sure it's been you know what 12 years and they seem like they would be They should be making more with podcasts, but they they never really are so everyone There's always in the air this impression that they're not, you know abandoning it completely But sort of leaving it as it is and and whatever in it So this looks makes it look like at least they're looking into stuff and you know, maybe Actually implementing new features like searching For inside podcasts through transcribing and stuff. Yeah I mean think about the fact that we're still calling them podcasts escape from the iPod back in you know, the dark ages In that sense, you know the term won't die. So and Apple really has a stronghold on the market. I know there are a lot of podcatchers Yeah used but that's 70% of people really equate with podcast. Yeah 70% of podcast traffic comes from items You know generally discovery discovery is the big thing. Yeah, I want to find a podcast usually that's the one place you go But that's why we need all of you to just tell people just a case or review us Well, moving on to another operating system entirely along with the release of Android 8.1 Google is releasing Android Oreo go to OEMs the low-end Android Configuration also comes with a suite of go versions of Google apps like maps Gmail YouTube assistant and others Android go works with devices with less than one gigabyte of RAM using less memory and less storage Also as part of the release Android Oreo 8.1 the burger emoji has relocated the cheese to above the meat patty Whoo, that was really stressful for a while the beer emoji as well No longer has a gap between the beer and the froth which like everyone knows is Impossible this is why you know, I'm boring at parties I'm more excited about Android go and the possibility for you know Accessible more useful smartphones to the developing market and low-end Users and cheap phones whereas most people very excited about the cheese being put in the right place on the burger About you I will admit the cheese the misplaced cheese even though once it was pointed out to me I was like yeah, that is weird never would have bothered me Never would have noticed. However Very upsetting. Hmm. No, I agree. I mean You are wait what? No, it was what they should have done is gotten rid of the the top circle of the yellow That's what was throwing people off what they were trying to do is show some froth in the glass Now the froth is just sitting on top of the glass. It looks even weirder to me Hmm, I suppose so but it needed fixing of some kind. I think you're right about everyone will agree about that The thing is as you know boring as you might be oh that does not look like there's some froth in the glass I'm looking at it again. It is definitely beer and then The stuff floating on nothing it is no no that you're wrong Tom. Sorry. No, that's the new one The new one has no froth in the glass now No, but look at the old one the old one was trying to show froth in the glass But they were showing the the top of the of the yellow beer which caused the problem because then it just looked empty Google devs Some of you are drinking beer. I'm sure of it What's the deal? And you know the thing is yes the important part of it is android go, you know orio go great fantastic But we have so many so few fun light-hearted That we can you know all together agree that this is just dumb fun I really think this story kind of serves a Coming together take a break purpose for everyone to have fun with so I feel Extra humbled that it took a french person to point that out to me All right, talk about the FCC then Yeah, this is going to cheer everybody up the US FCC wants to change isps from be considered common carriers back to being considered information services as they were before 2015 you all probably know that if you've been following the show Back in those heady days before 2015 at&t was sued by the us federal trade commission Over throttling its unlimited customers. This is the practice where they would say well, you're unlimited But if you use above this amount, we're going to slow down your speeds at&t argues that since it's a common carrier in voice Not data, but voice and because voice and data are part of a whole package The ftc has no jurisdiction over this matter Even though this is back when it was an information service And one of the arguments that ajet pi has been using is that it needs to be regulated as an information service And then the ftc can regulate it if at&t wins their case on those grounds Then the reclassification of isp's information services would mean that in many cases neither the FCC or the ftc could handle customer complaints about service now the FCC is voting on reclassification december 14th Some people have asked for that vote to be delayed. The FCC says it's not going to delay it So this at&t court case is likely to be decided after the vote is already been made That's so that's all you have to say is the front Yeah I'll leave that one to you Oh fair enough to at&t at&t trying to say look Hey, we'd like to be a common carrier when it's beneficial to us and an information service when it's beneficial to us And neither when it's beneficial to us. I mean, that's what they're going to do, you know, don't don't get me wrong but That's not the way it's supposed to work and when one of the Safeguards that is being presented is well, don't worry if these companies have abusive practices that we can no longer regulate Because they're not common carriers. The ftc is the proper place for this anyway This would make that less possible I mean the whole sort of like common carrier and voice thing is also really convoluted because You can do a lot of voice not in a traditional voice sense, which at&t is arguing, you know, I mean It's like to say like oh well, hold on a second These are you know the the way that you know our company our company. Um, what we provide is split up is It depends on how you use it Yeah No, and and what at&t is trying to say is like we're a common carrier. So you can't touch this I mean she's like, yeah, but that's an info that was an information service Like yeah, but it's part of the whole package and the package is generally under a common carrier So you can't touch that Which would give them an out for everything in the future Yeah, it's basically the problem you're completely right that at&t is doing what it should be doing defending its interest and the The way it's supposed to work the way it's built is that you have a balance for that with Government organizations that provide that that check and and those balances so Trying to remove it entirely is probably not Something to look forward to well I think it's an example of the problem that internet service isn't an information service or a telecommunication service and so therefore You need a different way of approaching is that just clearly would define If somebody is also providing voice service as a common carrier That doesn't stop them from being regulated on their data services. That there just isn't a rule necessarily like that Which is why the court has to weigh in and don't forget the court may say you're full of it at&t The ftc still gets to regulate you here. Yeah, hopefully Instagram has updated its stories function for android and ios to automatically archive them to private To a private part of your profile the feature will be turned on by default, but can be turned off You can then make what's called stories highlights by adding up to 100 old story clips which you can display on your profiles. So basically they don't have to go away forever now So if I understand this right This is you know, if i'm perusing instagram stories of my friends This is something that I will have seen already But then a friend can sort of promote as like best of highlights later on. No, it's only your own stuff Only no, but but it's sure it's my own stuff But let's say i'm you know, i'm looking at what you have decided to highlight again Oh, you're like you're looking at my profile. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So, okay, um, I guess I don't know the thinking behind this is is I guess uh facebook slash instagram is sort of like You know, think about all those stories that come and go and you know, if within a 24-hour period, you know Sarah doesn't look at what tom has shared. It's gone forever. We can make use of this information again. Um, it's I don't really play around in stories all that often, but I know a lot of people who do so I guess recycling content that you like and you want to resurface again isn't Terrible. Well the premise of snapchat was ephemerality, right? And so and so instagram stories was supposed to be that for instagram and it started to eat a little of snapchat's lunch One thing snapchat had is memories so you could save them when you wanted to And instagram didn't have that so instagram didn't want better and said not only can you save them But you can create these little profile Highlight reels that you can put up there and when people come to your profile They'll see sarah's great summer and it's all your favorite stories of the summer all in one place You know Thing um as much as a sort of novel concept. Ooh interesting, you know We don't have to think about everything being saved forever That is so done and it's been done for a while. I mean uh snapchat once they allowed you to like save your own snaps It's like no They everyone knows that people want to save the stuff that they like the best Um, and none of these services are really ephemeral anymore. Sure. You can use them that way But there are all these little tricks now to be like well if If you really like that like cool filter that you added you can save it and you know throw it up somewhere else I mean half of the photos that I see on facebook Are like screen caps that somebody took from a snap that they you know had made public at some point Because you can tell by the filters. So the whole thing is a little bit like a little bit of a failed experiments True true well Perhaps this will not be a failed experiment asus lenovo and hp introduce windows computers that run on qualcomm snapjag And 835 processor with near instant boot lte connections and a 20 hour battery life They run windows 10 s which uses an emulator to run 32 bit windows apps Users can upgrade to windows 10 pro for free cannot run software that uses kernel mode drivers So no antivirus no games with antitheat software that kind of thing the 12.2 inch hp NV x2 tablet weighs 1.5 pounds the 13.3 inch asus no logo goes for $599 At 64 gigabytes and 799 for 256 gigabytes lenovo will announce the model in the coming weeks qualcomm also announced the successor to the snapdragon 835 will be called The snapdragon 845 Shocker it will pair with the x20 lte modem which provides gigabit connectivity Yeah, so these are uh microsoft's second attempt at arm stuff, right like uh, hey that windows rt thing That was a bad dream. It's kind of a nightmare. Forget about it. This is the new way They announced this a while ago where they're going to use an emulator so that basically any program for windows will run on this 64 bit isn't ready yet That can be a problem for some people, but it's coming I don't know what they're going to do about this kernel stuff, but you can still run windows defender It's not like you're without antivirus. It's just the third party stuff Uh, and these things are super light super slim And I I think they may be somewhat appealing to folks although When you look at chromebooks These prices don't feel as cheap as maybe they should be I i'm not sure the price is going to be the issue I think people are going to want, you know, tablet sized some people are going to want tablet sized devices That are actually full fledged windows. I mean for me the no games Well, no some of the games was a little bit of a ah, but To be honest, I doubt even a an 835 would run the kind of games i'm interested in So it is definitely uh, I mean, okay It is way way way way way better than windows rte and Comparing it to it even though I understand the the logic behind it is almost doing it a disservice because this is 90 95 of windows when rte was kind of a weird offshoot Yeah, this is going to be more capable than a chromebook arguably because it's able to run most windows programs Yeah, I think I want to add one real quick thing The lesson from ibm's pc jr. Which was their fall-on computer to the ibm pc was that it was only 89 compatible with the ibm pc if you if users feel that they will not have the full windows experience With it regardless of what it's on they're going to feel cheated and they're probably going to steer towards Something that offers a full windows experience because it's called windows if they called it something else I think they would have less of an issue and and with with most people This is going to have the full windows experience. That's the big difference between this nrt is with the emulator It's no different than buying a low powered windows machine in a way Where you can say like oh, it's only got a 32 bit processor. So you know some of the apps out there won't work Most people won't notice a better way of putting it is is you know, it's not 90 percent of windows It's windows for 90 percent of the people Maybe hey folks if you want to get all the tech headlines each day in about five minutes Be sure to subscribe to daily tech headlines at daily tech headlines dot com Also available as a flash briefing on the amazon echo on your google home and in the anchor app Go download that too YouTube said monday plans to have more than 10 000 people on staff in 2018 that would be By most estimates about 25 percent more people than they have now to identify inappropriate content These are people who just look at what the algorithm flagged and try to make sure that the bad stuff doesn't stay up YouTube hopes that this will not only stop objectionable content But also help stop false positives daily tech news show regularly gets flagged as inappropriate for advertising for some reason Every time i appeal and every time it passes the appeal So i'm not sure what's going on Not the only one on youtube that says hey my stuff keeps getting flagged and i don't know why YouTube ceo susan wajiski also said the company will launch a new comment moderation tool and shut down comments altogether in some cases Now patrick you noted along with a couple other stories that This is another step in the march of these companies Taking over responsibility for what people say on their platform Yeah, and i mean we do also have stories about twitter Having issues and facebook basically having i guess false positives or arguable decisions And this is the beginning of the opening of the hashtag hell portal hashtag portal to hell as Our friend justin robert young christened it Because it's true that once you put the decision power in the hands of the companies as opposed to maybe the hands of the law or the courts or an outside organization it does kind of create those situations where Yes, you probably get a lot more of the inappropriate stuff out of the system But also you're gonna have some people who disagree with the stuff you put out of the system and for me um, I used to be very much in the camp of This is a horrible idea because we don't want youtube to decide what we can or cannot see Same deal with facebook and twitter I think everyone would agree that in an ideal situation we have The rule of law and that's how things are decided But as the years have been coming and more and more content is on those platforms I've shifted my opinion to well It's not really possible. The idea is great, but it's not really possible for the law with a capital l To decide on all of those So I do end up thinking that there is a need for those companies to organize and somehow at least You know do some pre-work on on some of it and i'm wondering if even though it does mean Portal to hell hell portal Issues and I wonder if you know You guys have sort of evolved your thinking or if you were always on that Both or if you think what's happening with those, you know facebook and twitter issues is Such a problem that we just shouldn't have them decide Well, I think it's just it speaks to the fact that algorithms don't understand the nuances that humans are still able to get around I mean the youtube situation is a really great example of that youtube needs to hire a bunch of humans to You know double check an algorithm that isn't always flagging stuff that you know people are complaining about and saying this is wildly inappropriate Why is this on your network and I mean most people, you know Yes, youtube shouldn't necessarily be deciding what we're seeing and not seeing but But in the case of what's going on with kids programming or programming You know that has been directed to kids a lot of it is like whoa. It's kind of crazy. This is not right So it seems like a good example right me Where a lot of people are going to be hired and then probably let go once the algorithm gets better Hold on no The the humans mess up a lot too. Don't forget that uh in one of these stories It's it's mentioned that that facebook moderators don't see the context of posts when they're reviewing them So if someone is in the context of a long thread saying something that makes sense as a joke Like kill them all right Out of context they could say well, that sounds like a threat banning that person And and that's that's an example of that has happened So I I don't think it's as clear cut as humans or algorithms are better or not I think the algorithms can get better And certainly it's showing you're right sarah. They need humans to do this The problem is youtube tried to benefit from Saying they were one thing while being perceived as another and by that I mean They said and were an open platform that they were not responsible for the content You know buy or beware when you come in here. You may see everything We are a web publishing platform. We don't hold people responsible. That's between you and them But then tried to take advantage of them being perceived as oh, I go to youtube to watch this So that it could become the dominant video platform And be seen as a channel and get the benefits of being perceived as a channel without having to have those responsibilities And that's what's happening here And I think facebook and twitter had a little bit of the of the same thing Especially twitter where they said we're just a web publishing platform. We don't take responsibility But also we're the place come to us We're the channel and they acted that way. I don't think I agree. Oh go ahead Patrick I think there's a little bit of of something disingenuous here in your description because it's not just that youtube then decided All right, we're going to change things. I think a lot of public pressure was put on them and on twitter and on facebook To regulate those those uh comments posts videos, whatever It's not that they you know Wanted to say oh no, you know, we thought we didn't want to touch on any touch anything But in the end we're going to anyway. It's that a lot of people were saying hey You're a huge company. You need to police these things these things. No, I I agree with you What what i'm saying is not what you think I said Oh, okay What i'm saying is youtube wanted to be seen as a big channel like hey come to us for all your things We're youtube come watch youtube but as soon as someone said hey, but there's this really odd thing You shouldn't have that on your channel that we're not the channel We're an open platform. They tried to play both. Yeah the fence and then what you're saying is what has happened now is the public Pressure has caused them to start to back off a little and have to deal with the consequences of that Well, I mean i'm at the public pressure is You know youtube is different than something like twitter or facebook because we've been throwing out those other social networks You know when my friend, I don't have children But lots of friends who do when my friend's two year old is having a meltdown in the back of the car They don't say sarah hand them your phone and you know fire up twitter It's play a youtube video and I go which one and they're like any of them if it says wheels on the bus Just play it So that's the thing is that youtube has to recognize that Children are watching video youtube has become a huge resource of just like play a video for a kid Yes, you get to that point you have to recognize that if something is going to be fed to a kid that seems to have a Pretty innocent title and you know doesn't have a parental adversary warning, but is super weird and possibly dangerous then The network can't totally ignore that stuff the original They flag videos like like dating tech news show for no good reason So well, but that's because they're they're using clubs and sticks to try to solve the problem Basically, no, but that's part of it. That's part of it. So then the question becomes Do we Agree that they should regulate stuff even though we're going to have those educate cases where they Take stuff away that shouldn't be taken away Well, I guess where I'm at should be a free-for-all the horse is out of the barn at this point And and so youtube has no other choice, but to go try to get the horse and put it back in the barn Uh, or at least put a saddle on the horse or you know Do some horse Yeah, uh Take the horse for a ride feed the horse something the horse is hungry for goodness sake youtube stop abusing horses, but Uh, I will stop abusing the metaphor and get back to saying yes. They that now they're now it's damage control It's like, okay What are the worst problems and how do we get on those and how do we solve those and well? We'll throw 10 000 people at it If that's what it takes because we have to and we have the resources and we got that big If in the beginning though, they had held Themselves to the line of you don't watch youtube you watch channels on youtube Just like you don't go to date. You don't go to wordpress. You go to daily tech news show dot com Which happens to use wordpress, uh, they wouldn't have these problems, but they wanted to be youtube So now they have to take responsibility for it Yeah, I I think the responsibility was at least that's how it looks like from France and from europe we wanted them to have the the responsibility for it and ultimately I I think they have to whether they want to enough than you wanted that but I mean in 2005 I don't think you cared. Well, no, of course. Yeah for the past few years And and nobody goes after blogspot another google property and says you're responsible for this blog Because they're not out there saying blogspot brings you all this stuff. They're just saying the blogs Then talk about wordpress.com which is big enough, right? I was just using that because it's a google property. But sure wordpress is big enough But they hang it back and they're like, we're just the platform and we're not not going to try to pretend like we're anything else Or take advantage of that I I I think it's a matter of size In this case does matter and even wordpress.com is not big enough and not controversial enough I would argue that but Maybe you have a different opinion post it at our facebook group And but you know be careful you might get have it taken down facebook.com Slash group slash daily tech news show and thanks to everybody participates in our subreddit as well You can submit stories of vote on them at daily tech news show dot reddit dot come. What's in the mail bag, sarah Well, we got an email from paul and this is uh, he calls himself the web development instructor from houston Hello, paul. Hope houston is treating you well. This is in response to a conversation We had yesterday about underscores versus dashes and urls and and elsewhere So paul says dashes are inherently better than underscores and urls because underscores often get confused for spaces By the fact that they're at the bottom of the line sometimes they just aren't seen other times covered up with underlines While most people don't type urls. It still happens when google recommended dashes I think it was saying there's a small but consistent secondary seo bump by using dashes rather than underscores It's not that they explicitly added it to the algorithm But it's an effect that always shows up So while I agree with anneal dash and his premise that google influences how a content is created too much perhaps The he probably picked the worst example to start explaining the argument with it's both the most benign thing to worry about And the wrong basis for the argument I disagree with paul saying it's the wrong basis for the argument In fact, I think it even strengthens his argument to say hey when matt cuts said this all he met was People generally don't confuse underscores for dashes So you know maybe use dashes, but he didn't explain that and instead made it sound like a pronouncement from on high And it began This feeling that I must do what google says Uh, and so I I think it strengthens it to say it was an innocent beginning That led to yeah, I I'm not sure how many people are confusing underscores for spaces, but Then again, I get a lot of email from people who are emailing to different sarah lane. So yeah, no, that's true Andrew think it happened. Well, there you go folks. Uh, we're all done for the day. Thank you for joining us And thank you to patrick beija for being here as always on tuesdays patrick What's going on in your world? Uh, a bunch of stuff, but you can check all of it out at frenchspin.com where I host my two shows That I do in english pixels about gaming. Oh, and by the way, you're gonna get a dts labs games Pretty soon. So if you're interested in games, you can listen to that and then listen to pixels And the philis club, which is coming up on episode 100 pretty soon We're gonna do something fun. I hope for episode 100 and uh, we'll talk to about it early congratulations on your 100th episode That's a good milestone. I am confident your episode 100 is going to be amazing That might be a hint Prediction Hey, and if you want that dts labs episode that patrick was just mentioning it if you're a patreon Supporter you already have it go check out patreon.com slash dts. Just put it up this morning It'll come to everybody on saturday Uh, the dts labs episodes go up on patreon as soon as they're public as they're done And then go up on the weekends for everybody else So get in there and join patreon if you've got only a dollar a month. It doesn't take much It'll super help us uh to do more. We want to go to ces. We want to broadcast some ces more And bring you more stories from there We want to do all kinds of things and you make that happen Including more round table show you like those round table shows we get more of those the more people support us at patreon.com Slash dts if you have anything to tell us questions you ask Feedback at daily tech news show.com is the place to do it We read everything and we try to put as much as we can on the show and we even have some ideas To you know have a place for more of your emails to to shine and and and come to light We are live money through friday at 4 30 p.m. Eastern 21 30 utc at elphakeekradio.com and diamondclub.tv And our email address or url rather is dailytechnewshow.com back tomorrow with scott johnson talk to you then This show is part of the frog pants network Get more at frogpants.com Diamond club hopes you have enjoyed this program Good show Good show Good conversation It's stuff I think it's uh, this is not unusual for you and i patrick, but I think we were coming at this story from two different ends I was coming at it from youtube always said it was this But they didn't act that way and this is what they get and you were coming at it from youtube started doing this And we need to make them stop No, I would know I I actually maybe I didn't express myself well YouTube wasn't doing it and we wanted them to do well sure Yeah, used to youtube started allowing everything on the platform in in my head And we needed them to stop allowing everything on the platform. But yeah, you were looking at it I think and I think this may be something That can happen Especially For somebody like me who was covering youtube when it was brand new Uh versus it had to get big here before it started to spread outside So by the time it comes to europe and people start using it there outside of the early adopters It's already big And it's already making that That thing where it's like, you know, we're we're actually too big to act the way we're acting But we're going to keep acting that way anyway Yes, I mean Maybe there's that's part of it. But you know those things Come pretty quickly to to our markets YouTube was maybe You could access it immediately and then it became sure. Yeah Yeah, it became big a little bit later, but not that long it spreads really really fast as soon as it's available and that's why they sometimes delay it, but As soon as it's a video youtube got big when would you say in the u.s. Maybe we don't really remember 2006 Seven oh that it wasn't big in 2006. Oh, yeah. No by 2007 it was we were having meetings at sea net about like Maybe we should have our stuff on youtube. This is pretty big Right, but big for the tech industry where people were like, uh, maybe we should put stuff there Uh, maybe I mean, yeah, if it's 2007, I don't feel like it was big in in france. So maybe that's The different yeah, I may be wrong But but my premise is that you know, if youtube had stuck to we're just a platform, right? We're just a place where you can publish things and really push the channel branding, right youtube is the tool Not the destination And allowed people to have like vanity URLs and things like that. It wouldn't have this problem No, yeah, no way. Absolutely way. I No way. No, it's like I mean it's it's I yeah, I don't think they they could have um, because Even if they had pushed the vanity URLs and stuff like that, it's still the consistent youtube Experience brand and most channels, especially those why is theory trying to Do stuff No, I really don't think that would have been possible. Um, unless you know, youtube had become some kind of white label thing that would have you know, uh disappear it as a brand But uh, yes. No, that's what I'm saying if they would have said look, we are a tool And our brand is you want to publish a video channel come to youtube.com rather than being like a destination They wouldn't have these problems. Yeah, but then you're saying that would have been a bad choice for them Which is a whole different conversation. No, I'm saying you're talking about a different product Yes, but it was the product that their premise was built on which was we're not the people publishing the stuff I think there's a difference if you if you're really mean it then you build a different product the product they built Even though they were saying, oh, we're not, you know, they were just using it as the web We're not, you know responsible for the comments on our site. Um Or the content anything. Yeah, uh, and I don't think they have to be is what I'm saying I think there is a way for for a company to operate and say no, we are just the platform We are just the technology for people to use But that's not what youtube wanted to be they wanted to have all the benefits of being the destination without any of the responsibility for the content But I think the problem that we're facing and sorry roger um but the problem that we're facing is that When something becomes this problematic When you can see Isis beheading people on a platform Then people are going to be looking for Someone who is responsible for this and they're going to find it And if in in those cases even if youtube had I mean, I don't know The the things would have gone Hey wire somehow i'm not sure exactly how but they would have well, I mean you don't blame the isp This is the one bringing there was a one bringing it to you Well, but yeah, I'm saying like there there are levels right and so it's all about where you draw the line And youtube tried to straddle the line and if we had found no Let's say, you know ethereum takes off and and some kind of dark net something or whatever If it comes down to it the isps would have been found made responsible for policing this technically You know at some point at some but we don't do that with mail or phone, right? We don't hold the telephone company responsible for conversations happening over the phone No, we don't you're right, but it's not the same world I think What we're real the whole thing we're realizing now is that the web Is a special case and this is why we're asking them to police it and not Saying well, okay, you know that the courts will deal with it That is the entire reason for it because the courts can't whereas for telephones So it's a failure of law if that's the case in my opinion. Well, it absolutely is It's just that getting youtube the getting getting companies to police it is is a band-aid and probably not a very good one Yeah, but then we need to hire 20 000 people to police youtube right Not necessarily if we have the right laws then the law can pressure companies to say you have to do this Uh, and and maybe I don't know maybe we need 20 000 people to disagree with police youtube But maybe we come up with a principle that says here's who's responsible for what that works Yeah, but then you can go and you know you know condemn how do you say it in english like The the result of the lawsuit is a Judgment judgment. Yeah, and and judge every video like have a judge or a clerk look at every video and say this one It's already true of everything right you have to but once a judge has ruled and everybody pretty much agrees Okay, that's the precedent then you don't have to have a judge go after every case because people start to act like Okay, I know what the judge is going to say so i'm going to avoid that. That's how law is supposed to work I disagree. I think this is the big issue with the internet It's not the the system the legal system we have is not applicable to every little tweet or You know or or comment on facebook It's but but if there was clear if there was a clear procedure for who is responsible for what Then it would be but you still need to go and have the judge You know look at the case and decide on rudder is dying here um and decide on each Uh individual case and then sent do the sentencing. Oh, you know You have a law that says here's who's responsible for what and then if they don't ask act in that responsible way Then you take them to court. You don't have to have a court judge every post But then so youtube is responsible for enforcing the decision of We we need to decide that that's what's happening now No, what's happening now is corporations are handling things by public relations rather than us deciding Well, what is the best way to handle this? Uh, not exactly. I think there's some of it not there's some of it, but they're not handling it by public relations They're having people look at each instance of questionable No, if this was not handled by public relations, it had been solved right now What it's been is like, ah, throw this at the matter for now because that'll get people off our backs for a little while And it keeps dragging on and it keeps not working How can you oversimplify it like this when they're trying to do it one way they are they have edge cases that Don't work out because the decision is never black or white is it's always complicated And so we have all of these issues with you know, uh, someone saying kill old people And and that is taken out of they can't I mean Again, we could talk about this for 50 hours. I want to point out that I'm trying to have this argument while publishing the show So I'm if I'm losing it said I'm out of this Sorry, sarah. Sorry, roger Oh, no, I'm uh, very entertained Um, I was just waiting for a title if oh end of burger gate Okay, this is one of those days where I just picked it because we were having too good of a conversation going on Oh, okay End of burger gate retroactively but It was up at the top sounded fun Why not? From all the yelling. I'm sorry. Yeah Um, but uh, you know what that that conversation was pretty good. Yeah, it was Almost east meets west like Oh, yeah Yeah Just a lot of arguing roger's not listening right now is he? You can see anything I didn't say anything. I didn't hear anything. I know we know I am innocent your owner. I am not involved in this Uh, all right, I'm going to log off But don't log off for too long Uh, I'm going to log off for 35 minutes 30 35 of your french minutes metric minutes Are we starting up at 245 is that I mean as far as people on this live stream are concerned We're starting up on December 28th Right. No, the time and space is a flat circle. We don't know but for our purposes For you know, we're totally not pre-recording a show that is going to go out on December 28th Oh, no, of course. Of course. Yeah Just uh, I mean are we But but seriously Why don't we uh, we know we're all done here. So uh, roger, why don't you end the end the broadcast? Thanks everybody. Bye