 This is nice and cozy in here. So thank you, everyone, for being here. First, I just wanted to check to see, can everybody hear me? OK. Good. OK. And I'm going to try to not talk too quickly, which is something that I struggle with. So bear with me. I'll keep it on point here. So thank you very much for being here and for the folks online. Thanks for attending that way as well. We're really happy to be at this point. It has taken a little bit, as you know, to get here. But we're here now. And we've got this assessment that we wanted to present to the community to get your thoughts and feedback, comments. That'll happen at the end of this presentation. So I'm going to get through all of this. And I wanted to just note that we have members of the assessment team in the audience here. And then we also have members of city staff here in the audience. And I know yesterday we had a really lovely welcome for Amy Pitten. So she's on board now. That's fantastic. And then we've also got Arnie McMullen, who is here too, and has been really critical in making this assessment happen. So without further ado, I'm going to get into it and just go over the background of what started the assessment. So as you are all well aware, back in June, the director left. But we also had some other items that were part of the transition that are worth noting, something small like the pandemic, and then shifts in some of the programs. And so we thought it was a really good point to really take stock in where we are. And so we put together this assessment to do that. And so really our real focus was making sure that the scope in which we were assessing was in alignment with the mission and purpose, and then also to really look at the effectiveness of operations and to make sure that there was the means for decision-making. And so I'm going to go on to this next slide here. It'll come back just a little moment there. And so this is what we're going to cover today as part of this review. So we're going to look at the timeline and methodology. We'll look at the scopes and the area of study. We'll talk about key findings. And then we'll talk about areas of focus or the recommendations that we'll be putting in place as we move forward. And then next steps. So this is a bit of a process. This is sort of the start of the work that we need to do that's been identified here. And I think we're primed to do that. So moving on to the timeline and methodology here, we really started doing the work of this assessment back around Halloween and through Christmas. But we also were doing some of this work after the start of the fiscal year. It's a little bit of a slow start, but we did get there. And so what I want to highlight is that in terms of the methodology, we really started with the budget as a performance indicator, but that really wasn't the full story, as you'll see as we get on here in the assessment. What we saw from the budget is that there were some really key years where the senior center was doing really well. And so we decided to focus on those years and kind of see what the difference was between current state and previous state. And so we looked at 2018-19 compared to now to really kind of look at the details. And so really what we wanted to do in this assessment was to evaluate programs for sustainability, reconcile the feast program proposal compared to current operations, and then enhance membership value and benefits. And so that's sort of what we set up to do in a nutshell. And so here as we move along, we've got the scope of what we intended to study. Yes. Yes, yes, yes. It's actually a lot of it is uphold directly from the assessment. And so just kind of highlighting for you sort of key areas so that the report is about 15 pages or so, but then there's also accompanying documents that really helped feed that report. And so I'm just, this is a summary. Can you get that report online? Yes, Tina, you can get that report online. And then if you do want a copy, we can certainly get you one. Thank you for those questions. So really, here we are. We wanted to take a look at the programs. We wanted to take a look at feast and membership. So we also, it's a pretty large body of work. So we wanted to kind of define what we were looking at. And so as you can see with programming, we really wanted to look at recommendations to support programming from development to implementation. For feast, we wanted to look at the service level and resource allocation. And then for membership, we really wanted to look at the value of membership. I think we can sort of identify what that value might look like, but we wanted to really kind of put pen to paper and get that sort of down and documented. So some other things that I just want to note here as part of the context is that from 2019 to 2024, the budget increased by 27%. And so I just want to highlight that because that was something that we were seeing. And so we were curious about that. A lot of that is related to feast coming in-house. And so not necessarily direct program, but it's something that has been talked about in the membership that we really wanted to kind of get our arms around. And then the other thing to note is that within the budget, the composition currently is a 70-30 split, programming and operations and feast. And so in working through this assessment, we kept those things in mind in terms of where funding resources were coming from. But that's really not the full story. It's sort of just kind of the highlights for you. And this story of this assessment is not really about the numbers, it's just where it started. And so without further ado, I'm gonna get into the details of each of these scope areas and so in the assessment, if you're looking at it, the real meat of that document starts on page 10. We wanted to kind of bring folks along for how we looked at details. The other thing that I do want to note here before I move on and it's related to the methodology is that we did take a deep dive in each of the areas into the source details. So for instance, with programming, we pulled all of the details from RecTrack and we're able to take a look at the historical data to see what programs were offered, what the enrollment numbers were. And then from there, we were also able to kind of see sort of the costs associated with those programs. For Feast, we were able to take a look at the contract when it was a contracted service. We were able to look at the proposal that brought it in-house and we were able to also take a look at if we had still used a contracted service using inflation and what that would have looked like in today's dollars just to get a comparison. And then for the membership, we looked at past and present benefits and did some brainstorming. And so I just wanted to highlight those areas and just back to Feast. I know it's not a direct line, but with Feast, we also took a look at other area meal sites and used the details from CVCOA to see how other sites were performing in terms of number of contracted meals. So we really did get into the details here and then sort of came up with the recommendations. Also, there was some really important information provided by the interviews that we conducted. Those were pretty critical in providing context and I think really helped me understand. And then from there, we also did the public forums and so much like this. This isn't the last time, hopefully, that we'll see you and engage on how we can do the work at the Senior Center and do better. So now on to each of the subject areas. So programs, so starting on page 10 of the document, that's where the key findings and recommendations are. And so just looking at this slide here, these are some of the key takeaways and sort of items to kind of work on going forward. We realized in looking at the way, you know, programming was being done, we really need to develop policy guidelines for programming. The other thing that we noticed is that among some instructors, there wasn't necessarily pay parity and so there may be reasons for that. But we did identify that within a certain area, there might not be a similar pay schedule and so we really need to kind of get our arms around why that is and make sure it's equitable. And then from there, making sure that we're studying the profit and loss of programs. And so that doesn't necessarily mean that particular program would be a neutral proposition, but overall making sure that the programs are supported. And then from there, it's really, you know, one of the things that we did here in our forums and in the survey, it's just the affordability piece, making sure that we can provide the classes to membership at an affordable rate and making sure that they're inclusive. Because they also think that that's kind of part of this community too, is making sure that everybody can attend if they want to. And then we realized and looking into the systems that there was so much more that we could do, which is, I think it's exciting, but leveraging those systems of record to get more data out of them quickly. So then as we're making decisions, we can pull those details so that then we can get them in the hands of the folks that make the decisions. So just making sure I didn't miss anything on my notes here. Some of the key factors that I did want to note, we've gone over sort of the highlights of the program section, but for the pay parity, I did note in the report that in some instances, there was a spread of 25 to $87 for a similar class. And so it's just, you can kind of see the difference there. Then the other piece is the enrollment numbers. And so, you know, initially, when we started looking at this, we did see a drop in enrollment. So in 2019, the enrollment numbers are at 4,329. And then, you know, currently it's at 2,209. And so you can see that there is a big difference there in the enrollment in programming. And so we just want to make sure that we can bring it back up. And so it's just sort of a starting point. And then, you know, we also looked at sort of what people would like to see. Those key offerings that are important. And thinking that, you know, that's really where we might focus as we go forward. And so some of the things that came forward, probably not surprising, but arts and crafts, exercise, film, and music. And so a lot going on in trips. That was another thing that's been mentioned a couple of times over. And I'm pretty excited about seeing what happens next there. So I'm gonna pause there for just a quick minute just to see how the room's doing. Looks good. Matt, are we good online? Okay, cool. So just moving on to feast. So this also starts on page 10. Here are some of the key suggestions or key findings from this. And so, you know, really I was most interested in kind of seeing what this program looked like in the whole scheme of things. And so just on the whole looking at 23 numbers, we were contracted to provide 14,935 meals. And we ended up providing 23,445 meals. That's a pretty big spread. Yes. Yes, so we do have both as part of our contract with the CVCOA Central Vermont Area Agency on Aging. And so the meals that are meals on wheels or delivered service are separate from those congregate meals, which are provided regularly. I can get into the details of the program specifically. No, they're not prepared by different groups. They're sort of the same group. No, okay, Tina, did you wanna share what? Yes, that's fair, but they're both city staff, I guess is what I was thinking with that sort of comment. And so we should talk about those things though, for sure. And I think as part of our review process, we did review job descriptions to kind of take a look at who's doing what and how. There have been some shifts in how that work is done between those two folks. We do have volunteers and guest chefs that come in. For the congregate meals, there are, as I understand it, there's a lot more by way of volunteers that go into providing those congregate meals. And then I think there is a little bit of a difference in terms of the funding source with the congregate meals depending on eligibility. There may be more of a private payer or a patron kind of situation going on there. And so that is definitely certainly a difference. So we can take a look at the contract for sure, but there is part of the CBCOA contract that does allow for and stipulates congregate meals. And so it's part of what we need to provide as part of that contract. We also did hear as part of this assessment process. It was a little interesting because on the one hand, we heard that people wanted congregate meals back. And then on the other hand, not so much. So it's just trying to figure out walking that fine line between the membership and determining what the right balance is. Is there a thing going in the back that they're not going to come in? Yes, so that's sort of the interesting. So there are things to tease out, I think, that are really interesting there, that we should talk about that. And that's where I think that this assessment is pretty valuable because it just, I think, pulls the details out. It doesn't necessarily provide kind of an end result. It provides the factors to enhance the conversation around this program. And we have got questions. We did get a question from the advisory council and we'll work to do a quick, maybe one-page FAQ on the program because there are different things that are offered under Feast. And so there is, I think, interest in learning more about that. And so you're not alone in terms of your question. Some people do. That's an overall number, but we could certainly break it down. Yeah, I mean, the major issue is there is, oh, yes, Matt. If we could pass the mic around or if we could repeat the questions, it's hard for people on the table to answer that. Okay, so maybe what we'll do is we'll hold the questions until the end. Is that okay? Okay, no, I appreciate the questions during the presentation because then it's more of a conversation which I kind of like better, but I'll keep going with the details here. Thanks, Matt. Okay, so we're gonna keep moving along with just sort of the findings that we did find and we can talk about details in the question and answer portion. So what we're looking to do going forward is align meal production with a staffing profile. So just making sure that what we're providing we can support. I work with CVCOA to evaluate programmatic options and determine how to pay for meals that are not reimbursed, which kind of gets to part of the issue here that's been identified. Evaluate the food costs. We've had some pretty significant costs associated with inflation and so that definitely is a piece of this too. Evaluate the cost of meal service contract using current pricing. So we've done that as part of the initial analysis here but we'll probably continue to run the numbers to see what that looks like as we go forward and then determine the target service level provision to stabilize the program. And so as you can see within the assessment we're not breaking even at this point. That's not surprising but there are things that we can do and so we've got to work to kind of balance things out. And then working with other area meal sites to kind of see how things are going. We could see in the CVCOA data that some meal sites were on right on with their contracted values. And so it's interesting to see like why is that? So digging into some of those details and then also seeing what they do and how they do it and then focusing on community partnerships. We do have some community partners right now but I think with the pandemic some of those things have kind of fallen off and I think that there's an opportunity to develop those relationships further. As we've sort of indicated one of the things that I wanted to highlight just going back to the numbers is in 2024 we are contracted for 17,161 meals and so we'll be keeping an eye on that. As it stands in 23 we were at a loss of $4.27 per meal and so we've got to get a handle on what that looks like and so that'll probably likely mean a combination of two things, increased funding and also a reduction in expenses and so we've got to figure out how to do that. So that's feast. There's a lot here to talk about but again I think it's providing the ground work to be able to have a good conversation and then make some progress moving forward. So membership, just moving on there. So this is on page 12 of the assessment document and so really what we set out to do as we were looking at membership is to really provide value-based benefits. We've got quite a nice community here and just making sure that the benefits make people want to come here. We also wanna work on enhanced communication of those benefits so making sure that people know what's available and what's possible and then work on a public. Let's see here. Oh, I think we're back, good. So the public campaign is just really, I think one of the benefits or silver linings of this assessment is people really came out as part of this process to talk about the senior center and so I think we've got an opportunity to really work on that and work on getting members and getting membership back up to where it was. So we've got some sort of baseline details but in the report you'll see that in 2019 the membership was at 1,189 members and in 2023 it was at 757 members and so we've got some work to do but we can do it. It's just knowing where the numbers are and what that looks like. So just looking at the slide here, there are some items that we identified so we're gonna be working on establishing, re-establishing community connections and so Amy is gonna work on that. That's one of the key things that she's starting right out the gate with and that I think is gonna be really good for enhancing the work that we do and then we're gonna be focusing on the membership campaign so maybe perhaps offering different promotions so we'll brainstorm a little bit on that and then maybe even looking at other sort of either punch cards with the area of businesses or looking at discount counter programming so like if you sign up then you might get a free class or anything of the like just to get people to come back and then we'll work on enhancing benefits. Here are some of the things that we were brainstorming but I think we're open to all ideas and so one of them as I've sort of mentioned was discount local businesses, maybe a check-in call program, a bereavement program or a how-to series and then some of the other areas is focusing on events that provide values for member and create community engagement and so maybe a summer concert series or you know, picnics in the park and then one of the things that's been pretty popular is just computer access but we also need to sort of work through some of the details, Matt does that now but then also maybe enhancing that opportunity for membership and we used to have a computer lab but there's a little bit that goes into that and so we're gonna work through those details. Just taking a quick pause here, okay. And so, yes, I mean there's more than one, just so it's got dropped down there, so anyway. So everybody knows. So what I wanted to do here and sort of the recommendation, sorry if anybody's sensitive to the strobing, everybody good? Okay, so I wanted to sort of really highlight sort of the critical areas as part of the assessment so that then it's not all things, there's the pieces that we wanna focus on going forward. So for programs, looking at sort of doing rate study to evaluate the current rate composition and comparative market data, it's something that we talked about as part of the assessment team. Just explain what that means. Yeah, I will, you got it. I don't know what it is. Nope, understood. That is a question that we also got as part of the presentation to the advisory council, so here it is. George had asked me to explain what this first bullet means and so I'm gonna do that. So what that means is that as we were looking at the programs and looking at all of the factors that go into a rate for a particular program, there are very details there. So whether it's instructor pay or supplies or facility charges or any of that, kind of considering what comprises that rate, the cost, yes, the cost of that rate and then comparing it to the area, the universe or the local environment for that particular service. And so whether it's a private, say, yoga studio or something that is being provided just for the senior centers, making sure that we're sort of within range of what seems appropriate for that service and then determining where things land. So a rate study is a little bit more involved than just pulling things directly out of our system. So we could do justice to it. We wanna make sure that we are able to really take a close look at the cost of programs and compare it to what those services would be out on the open market locally. So that is our intention but I'm also happy to talk a little bit more about it. Okay, good. So we talked about pay parity a little bit. We just wanna make sure that there's equity there and then create transparency for folks so that we can talk about it. I think I was surprised to see that and so I also, there may be certain justifications but making sure that they're known as part of that the creating transparency and then creating standard operating procedures and policies for program implementation. When we were back in 2019, things worked pretty well and there is a lot from that time period and going forward but I think identifying really clear guidelines and making sure that they're known so that they're expected and also then if something is different from what those policies or guidelines might be, we have something to talk about. So that's at least establishing that base level and then going from there and then making sure that we develop support for trip planning, driving and facilitation. It's one of the things that people really said they wanted as part of programming is making sure that we're working on trips. I mean, now the pandemic's still lingering but making sure that we can get that going. So then just moving on to feast, bring back congregate meals, so we're working on that. Provide affordable quality meals, develop meal production sustainability and enhance volunteer efforts that's pretty straightforward I think but those are the areas that we do really need to focus on going forward and then for the membership focusing on special events, alignment with areas, senior centers, enhance importability, discounted items that area of businesses maybe, that there's a punch card like I was mentioning and then new offerings so we can provide value. And so just moving on to sort of conclusions and next steps here and so we wanna focus on the priority recommendations that we've got here and so we've already kind of worked a little bit with Amy on some of the key projects that we're gonna be sort of launching into on the program and membership side. One of the things is really working on those community connections. The next is working on sort of the program development cycles and making sure that we're squared away there, working on a membership campaign. So those are sort of some key areas for Amy and then for Arnie and I, we're gonna be launching into doing intensive work with the Feast program so we can get a handle on what's happening next and also to make sure that we can kind of divide and conquer so that there is not a, so we can make sure that there's focus on the programming membership because that's just really important. I think we've really seen that and so we wanna report our progress out to the membership in April, April 15th. Nice day. So we'll see how far we can get between now and then. We will certainly have more information for you but I also wanna make sure that we are briefing you periodically so you know where we're at and then if you have comments, questions, concerns we can talk about them. And then we will be working on integrating the work of this assessment into the strategic plan. We have a community services meeting so community services is recreation, senior center and parks meeting on the 22nd and so we're gonna start to work through some of the strategic planning. We do have work plans for each of the divisions and so some of this will be integrated into those work plans and then it'll be rolled up into a strategic plan. So what I'm hoping is that this assessment really is just the start of how we do strategic planning and move the senior center forward. So that's what I've got for today. And this is last but not least, I just wanted to say thank you. There have been a lot of folks that have helped with this process and you can see them all listed here. We, I, Arnie and our assessment team couldn't have done the work without these people and we are incredibly thankful to have been able to do the work. So now we're at the questions, comments and I understand we're probably gonna want a microphone. Um, look, whoo, lights. Did I just make a comment about sort of a border of things to Kelly? Yes. I think we ought to take each topic to a question. Start with programs and I think we should talk about about the questions for the programs and then we go on from there. So I'd like to start with programs. Questions about each area. Can you hear me? Or did I use the mic? You use the mic against people. I use the mic. Okay. Oh, you don't know? So I'm George Olson, I live on 25 Hubbard Street in Montpelier and one of the things I'm concerned about is the pay parity issue. I don't think that we can compare a volunteer organization to businesses that make widgets or do other things that are related to their own economy. We have a lot of volunteers. We have volunteers that volunteer their time, their effort and even contribute money for materials that they might use. And some volunteers choose to ask a certain pay amount and I just don't. I'm worried about the pay parity thing. I don't think we should limit one's willingness to volunteer and to volunteer their time and maybe even the amount that they get paid for what they teach and what they do. So I guess, and the other piece is I just, how to bring back membership. I think one of the most important things is socialization for seniors. Seniors need to be together. They need to come together. One of the things that helped that happen were the congregate meals. And I don't understand why we can't bring them back right away rather than waiting till the success of the process is over. Those are my comments about programming. Thank you. So my phone, if that's okay? Okay. 30 seconds remaining, 15 seconds of thank you very much. So I'll be keeping this in front of you guys. You don't have a hook though. It doesn't need a hook. Everybody was very good the last time. You're good. So just to comment on those two things. So for pay parity, I think it's brought up for discussion purposes. I don't want it to be limiting. And I wanna make sure that there's justification for why something may be. So that it's, I wanna make sure that there's equitability in it. I just wanna emphasize that it's the volunteer program here that we're talking about. Yeah. And many, many pages. I even fill up form every time I come in to volunteer. And there's a reason for that. I guess, I'm not sure what that is, but maybe Norma can speak to it or Matt. Why do we keep track of volunteers then? Right? Yeah, it's for grants. Yeah, yeah. So there's good reason for tracking that time. Just because it then can provide an in-kind match for funding and support the work. So yeah, Georgia, you had your comment. Yeah. And then just to talk a little bit about the congregate meals. So we're working to, it's not sort of that we're gonna delay in bringing it back. We'll bring them back as we can. We're working on building up that volunteer base to be able to do so. And then maybe shifting some things around. There was a question about the food served in preparation therein. And so maybe working with our staff to be able to prepare the meals that go out along with the meals for congregate meals to make sure that then we can, you know, maybe work with economies of scale. It is correct. Still Erica Garfin. We have lots of good quantitative data. And I think it was really helpful as a next step to gather qualitative data about a number of things. At why we see some of those numbers. And one of those is on page 10 of the report that even the enrollment areas is declining. I think it would be really interesting to know why are there fewer classes? Is there less variety? Are people still reluctant to gather because of COVID? Yeah, I think I'll leave it there. Thank you. Is it okay without a mic, I think? Oh, no, it can't. Okay. Okay, I think there was a comment in the, and you mentioned it here about people saying they wanted congregate meals, but they didn't want to come or some. Yeah, that could have been just the result of, I think, weirdly worded survey question. Or I think people were thinking, I remember when we talked about this, it was people thinking way in the future. They'd like to have more congregate meals, but on a more immediate basis, they were afraid to come in the site. Those were questions we asked, just as things were loosening up and people still had that fear. It is kind of a contradictory little piece of data. So that was about the congregate meals. Hello, excuse me. With the changes and Amy coming in, I think we'll have enough authority to do her job. And the... Of me and the city manager's office, I think we wanted to make sure that things were stabilized. We wanted to make sure that you have what you need. And I think, you know, we feel that we can take a step back. Excuse me, that's not our intention to run the senior center. Not the... Oh, how's that? Go ahead, John. Thank you. Her title is No Longer Director, and which made me think that she might not have as much authority and control over her budget. There is to go to an integrated community service model. That being said, we're trying to make sure that we can put resources where they're needed so that then the focus can be on those budgets that are associated with programming and membership and not get sort of locked into sort of a larger leadership structure. So, and she has full autonomy to do what she needs to do for the senior center. Do you also have... Thanks, Barry. You also have questions from the people on Zoom. I don't know how you want to handle that. Matt, do you want to read them off? Yeah. Yes. Right. This is from an anonymous participant. Why must these be kept separate from the program manager, from what the program manager works on? She will receive most of the comments about meals, I would think. So that's a good question. And so I think, you know, that will not necessarily be how it will always be. I think we've got some work to do. So, I mean, I think even just my previous comment coming back to that in terms of the city manager's office not being involved, that's an area where we probably likely will still be involved for a little while yet, just to make sure that the program can stabilize. And then once it is stabilized, then, you know, I think sort of the day-to-day operations of that program will still sit where it has historically. Also from an anonymous participant. Thank you for your efforts. Could you please describe how you are framing and approaching affordability of MSAC programming in light of the reality that many slash most area older adults live on a fixed income. Market rate of area yoga classes, for example, is out of reach for many retirees. It's an excellent point. Affordability is a huge issue, I think. And I think we wanna make sure that anything that is offered here is inclusive. And anybody who wants to be part of the programming can be. And so I think it's working, you know, with making sure that we can keep the, you know, costs to members for classes down. But it's also really doing that analysis to do a true assessment of what it costs to provide those programs. So if there is a gap in, you know, how much it costs and how much we're charging, we can make up that gap. So it doesn't necessarily fall on the backs of members, but we have a plan for how to proceed. And so that's the work that we're gonna be doing next, really, is making sure that things are reasonable. And affordability is one of those terms that is a little slippery because affordability means different things to different people. And depending on what your means are. And I think we wanna make sure that we're striving towards making sure that everybody can participate. So we'll work towards making sure that it is. I think, you know, again, with the survey results, it's a little mixed bag on that question, but it may be the way we ask the question or getting information. But I think that that's also where we'll need to do a little bit more of the quality of work around that area. Question about, did we have a question about scholarship, the use of scholarship on the survey? I don't remember. I would need to look at that. I don't know if we had something explicit on scholarship. We certainly talked about it as part of the assessment process. We talked about it at the advisory council and it will be a discussion going forward that Amy is already sort of, you know, keyed into. I think it'd be really interesting to engage people in that whole idea about why they feel shy about asking for scholarship money. I think that's what we've always heard. We say, you can't take a course, there's scholarship money. But what I always hear is that people feel shy about or humbled by, you know, asking for money. And maybe what we could think about is asking the members, how could we approach that better to get more people to use the scholarship and therefore engage them and therefore keep prices down. Hi, Johanna Nichols. My question is, so who supervises the staff and who supervises the MSEC staff? For the question. So structurally, you know, things really haven't changed on the work chart. Right now, the sort of the office staff is directly supervised by Amy. The fee staff, you know, is sort of on the day to day still supervised by Amy. However, there is a component there as we work within the program that, you know, there will be some review of those positions in those job descriptions at a higher level. I guess to Johanna's point, is there an evaluation process underway? Evaluation process. Underway for staff. The job descriptions as part of Amy coming on board, she has those job descriptions. And so we're working with them, working within the context of the current job descriptions. I think right now we're really focused on the key areas rather than, you know, the staff specifically. But that is also a big part of the picture, right? Because, you know, we can't provide the service without people, you know, like, so we're working through it. I mean, it's, there's gonna be more to come, for sure. Well, I do, but I don't know if you want me to finish. So, oh, I'm, my name is Bill Doldger. I was on the committee. So when would you set date for the start of the next assessment, maybe in the fall? So, so I think depending on sort of the strategic planning process, then we would start to firm up. Thanks. And in, with regards to the strategic planning, would you have one or two members again from the membership participating in the planning? Sure. I mean, I think we definitely benefited from having members on the assessment team. And so I think that that would be something to, you know, do in the future. Mm-hmm, yep, and Amy, also. So, not a question, but just a series of comments from maybe Alice Fisbee. And I think some of these were related to the feast discussion. So, she says, those of us who are older are those who want the meals. In the past, our chef made the congregate meals as well. We need programs in-house for those of us who with the disabilities who are not able to go to parks, et cetera. If you want older members to join, you must have quality congregate meals. That's a good comment. We're on feast right now. This is the only time we can talk about it. I think we'll be able to talk quite a bit more. I guess it's been covered by the assessment document. Mike, I guess I have a sort of comment. It appears that from this report, the senior senator no longer can subsidize feast. And feast, I believe, is endangering at the skill health of the senior senator. So this, you can't have a cost for a meal be the subset part of it at $4. And let's say the meal costs $10. So you have to make up the $6. So who makes up the $6? Right, and so that's deficit spending. And that's really bad for this senior senator. So those comments are comments. That's why we wanted, in part, to do this assessment. We're certainly hearing things anecdotally. I think we have to come up with a plan that creates conditions where the feast program is neutral in terms of not impacting the bottom line for the senior senator budget. And so, and I also think that we have to have the conversation about the value of those meals, you know. And so I think putting all the details out there for folks to take a look at and consider out in the open is really good and healthy because then we can have a conversation. And then also, from a staff perspective, we have to start to make plans for making it whole. Like we can't continue the way that we are. And that's what this assessment says. The timeline, I think it was for, I've forgotten your name, but when do you think that this will happen? This solution, so I guess maybe, aren't we? Yeah, so that's a good question. And I think in terms of thinking about feast specifically, like we will be taking a pretty critical eye between now and the end of the fiscal year, because we have to. I think some of the other items will be sort of longer term and maybe a little bit more organic. And so, and that's also in part why we split the recommendation at the end because I think there are, there's work that is being done to support the senior center that is not feast. And so I think we can really move forward with those things. And then for feast, we've got to address that. Hi, I'm Cindy McLeod. After I was director and the meal program was supplied, National Life gave it up and it was supplied through a program that I understand it was called Just Basics. And I believe that that was all done to keep the two separate and keep the finances separate and to be able to really raise money for the meal program as opposed to the senior center. And my question is, did you look at that? It seemed to be a reasonable structure. And is there any chance of going back to that instead of putting, I know that Council on Aging wanted the senior center to take over the meal program but is there, and I know historically there was a real reluctance for the senior center to do that because they felt like it would take all the all the attention would go to the meal program as opposed to the rest of the operations. And my question again is, is there any chance of going back and doing that and making Just Basics a real meal focus program that included like the food self and all the other meal programs in this community? Thank you. Anything's possible, and I think that we have to really evaluate where we are and where we're going because again we can't keep just doing what we're doing. And so I imagine that there will be a variety of options. Probably something like that would be on the list. Comment from former MSAC director, Jana Clark. A bit of perspective, I think it is important to understand that nearly every meals on wheels and car and get meal program across the country is subsidized. There is a small federal reimbursement but it has hardly gone up in over a decade. And when receiving those monies from the older Americans act originally, fee cannot legally be charged for the meals, for eligible meal recipients. Nutrition programs are essential not only for food security but all the vital wellness checks and social connection they provide to homebound people not a luxury. And I was just wondering, how often is the contract with CVCOA negotiated? Is it annual and is it coming up soon? Okay, okay. It's a federal reimbursement so you're negotiating with the federal government. Through them. Through them. So it's a little different. I understand and appreciate Jana's comments about that. I think the issue is that maybe at this point because of pandemic, and I think COC is looking at this, sorry about that, is looking at this because there are some people who may not be eligible. And I think it's really important that we provide these meals for people who really need them and who qualify. And that provides them for everybody. Thank you. Looks like Matt's got another question online there. And then Mary. While it was mostly a response to what George said. So again, from Jana Clark. The federal money goes to the state and then area agencies on aging. In our case, CVCOA. Our contract with CVCOA is renewed every fall for October 1st start. They set our local rate, not the feds. This is on the same subject. It's my understanding that there is a Vermont organization. I don't remember the title, but senior meal programs have an organization in Vermont. And if in fact the federal stuff hasn't been increased for a long time, there must, this must be a national issue. And I'm kind of wondering when all the area agencies on aging in this country are gonna go on a rampage. I'm for it. Thank you. I really appreciate everything that has gone into this. And I think it is just sort of a start, a fresh start. And I'm thankful to be doing it. I think we're in good shape. And again, if you have any questions, but otherwise you probably will be seeing a lot less of me. Yes. Are we talking about membership yet? Oh, thank you. I'm struck. I'm looking at page five. There's a table that looks at the difference between 2019 and 2023. New memberships declined by 63%, which is stunning. And clearly already people are generating ideas about that's really critical how to go after that. But renewals declined by 29%. And I think this is another one of those areas where it would be really useful to get some more information about why by contacting. I'm guessing Rectrack could tell us who were members in 2019 and do interviews or focus groups or something to find out why they are no longer members. And just in general, I mean, I think it's really important to get to the why before action planning starts to know that you're actually addressing the cause. I do want to remind people that we have a lot of members in their 80s and we do have death. So I assume that we've always been losing members that way. So I am curious, what is the age range of who's here? What is the age range of who was here and we've lost? And also because we're people in their 80s, they also can't necessarily get to the senior center anymore. Some of them are taking like bone builders, for instance, online. So, you know, we're hanging on to them that way. But we are an aging organization. So we do have to keep getting fresh members. I know two people who are thrilled that they're turning 50 this year, so they can join. And that's good, but we've always had a lower membership in the 50s and early 60s. When we had the ability to subsidize people to use First and Fitness, we got a lot of people in their late 50s and early 60s. We don't have it anymore. We've talked with Green Mountain Fitness, but they haven't gotten anywhere with them yet. And pool. Also be interesting to me to learn about those people who think the senior center is for old folks and just don't want to go where old folks go. I think there's a certain element of the population that's like that. Yeah. And I don't know if it would be profitable to identify those people, even if we can. But then maybe it would be, I don't know. That gets to stereotypes. And there's a stereotype that old people are, well, they're old, they're infirm, they're not physical enough, whatever. I just read a book, This Chair Rocks. And one of the points that she made was if you've met one 81 year old, you've met one 81 year old, that's it. So we're all different. We all have different abilities, physical strengths, weaknesses, whatever, mental acumen. But we're here and we're tough. One concern I have is that there's only been a very brief and passing reference to COVID. And I don't think it can underestimate the impact that Pandirika's had on all of us here. One year when we didn't do a membership drive at all, right? Norma? Yeah, we just decided because of COVID, we wouldn't even bother trying to get people back as members. And I think people fell off the rolls then and just never got the push to come back. That's one reason. And I think Erica's idea is a good one. Let's find out where people are. Hi, it's Cindy McLeod again. Back even before on your charts, when I was here from 2005 to 2011, the things that really generated the most excitement and the most activity where people were buzzing in and out all the time, or things like the computer lab, the trips, the new classes, most of the classes have revolved forever and ever and ever in affordability because you're dealing with a lot of people who have incomes between 15,000 to 20,000 a year. And those are high, you know, you can't afford to take more than one class of that with that amount of income. But there was a lot of buzz. There were coffee, people were having coffee after classes and they'd throw in money. But it was a really fun place to come. And I'm not saying it isn't now, but just getting people to drop in and connect with other people. It was called a gathering place for healthy living. And if you had a class, great. Oh, the other thing I wanted to address is if you wanna get younger working people, you gotta have classes after five o'clock. I mean, a lot of people are working at home and can do classes, but you gotta do that too. So I think the people are out there. I think people do wanna come. I think the drop in groups are fabulous and that really has become more important to me through the time because you don't always wanna do six to 12 weeks of something. Thank you. Two comments. So this is from Jana going back to what Mary had said about lobbying for wheels on wheels. So there's already an organization called Fermat Association of Senior Centers and Meal Programs, colloquially known as VASCAMP. And they've been lobbying for years for increased meal reimbursements. And Mary Alice Bisbee says, as someone who is 78, 87 and has friends in their 90s, some of whom who do not want to join because the meals are gone and the programs are all on Zoom or not appropriate for these ages, we must have reasons to come back. And she wanted to thank George for your comments about seniors are strong. So I'll just say thank you again. And I really appreciate it.