 Hi, welcome to Think Tech. We're raising public awareness on technology, energy, diversity, and globalism. This show is center stage. I'm your host, Donna Blanchard, proud managing director of Kumukuhua Theater. And we are coming to you from Pioneer Plaza in the heart of downtown Honolulu, very near Kumukuhua Theater. I am thrilled. You know, I often say, I'm really lucky that I have this talk show. Today is one of those days when I feel like I get to have this wonderful conversation with two people I'm really anxious to talk with, and they're my captives here. They can't leave until the show's over. We're going to talk with Larissa Fasthorse and Ty DeFoe. Their company is called Indigenous Direction, and they are here on the island teaching a playwriting workshop this weekend. Welcome, Larissa and Ty. Thank you for having us. Thank you. Thank you very much for being here. We've come across the ocean for this workshop that is put together by the Pa'i Foundation, Kumukuhua Theater, and HPU. And let's start by saying that it's a playwriting workshop for anyone, any level of writing ability for anyone of any cultural background. And your specialty is in writing from your, oh, I want to say, writing from your cultural, from who you are. Is that correct? Absolutely. How did that start? We first started doing workshops through the Alaska Native Heritage Center and Alaska Native Playwrights Project. That's when we first started doing these types of culturally specific workshops that were, that time were just for Indigenous people, for Alaska Natives. And they brought together different artists that had different levels of experience. Some weren't writers at all. Some were just visual artists. And Ed Bourgeois, who's now at Pa'i with Auntie Vicki, he initiated that program funded by the Ford Foundation. That's how we first started, we've known each other a long time before that, but that's how we first started doing these sorts of workshops, and now we've done them with populations on the Pine Ridge Reservation and also in California. And now we're doing it here with Hawaiian people. Oh, that is so awesome. That is so awesome all the way around. I've always felt like I'm originally from northwest Indiana and I fell in love with the idea of place-based theater, theater, you know, coming from the people who are right here when I initially learned about Joe Carson and her work and wanted, I recognized that, you know, in any place that you are, there are people and experiences that only happen there. And there are, there is the experience of this group of people, the Blanchard Clan, you know, when they moved from Pennsylvania to Indiana and what happened there, that all of these stories create are the fodder for unique theater pieces, right, for all of us. Particularly when you look at indigenous cultures, there are stories that really, really, really need to be told and I often say this and I'm still embarrassed about it, but when I moved here I thought Hawaii was just another state. I'm sure there are a lot of people who think that Alaska is just another state. And there are people within, you know, we grew up around a lot of Native American tribes in Wisconsin and Michigan. I really didn't know what was going on and if my family had the opportunity to go see a piece of theater and learn, what an awesome way to learn, you know, so I'm really glad that you're doing this. So tell me, and before we go too much further, I want to say there are still a few openings in the workshop and if people are interested they can get in touch with Kumakuhua Theater and you can find information on the website, Kumakuhua.org. So you are both also connected to theater communications group, yes? In what capacities? So I recently completed a fellowship there doing equity diversity inclusion and I do a lot of facilitation at the National Theater Conference, as well as working with regional theaters across the country. So it's another also connection that Larissa and I have and Larissa is on the board there, the National Board. Awesome. So when you talk about inclusion theater, can you break that down a little bit more? That's not a subject I studied in college. Yeah, I think when I refer to that it's the very same thing I think that we're talking about the idea of folks from many different cultures and different heritages but also other ways that a singular individual can identify and I think whether that's like connected to the land and their social identity location coming together, the idea of inclusion is taking a person and their whole selves and also using that with the rich like culture that makes up a singular individual. So the theater pieces that you are generally a part of helping to create are more do they take one particular form over another? I'm not even asking that question very well. I apologize for not framing that right. So when you go see an Edward Alby piece, this is you're going to see a day or moments in the life of someone. Sometimes when you go see works that are more place or culturally based from what I've seen, you see more vignettes or little tastes of life. Do you tend to lean one way more than the other? You know, I think I mean, I as a playwright, as an artist, I personally tie and I do very different styles of work on our own practice. My work is very naturalistic and very realistic because what I'm doing is taking very specific often, not always, but often indigenous perspectives and cultures and using the psychological means to get through to my viewer because truly all of these issues that we all share are just humanity, right? They're all just human issues and they're universal to every single person on the planet, whether you are from a specific cultural background that you're aware of or not. Everyone is, but not everyone has the awareness. And so for me personally, everything that I do is incredibly universal and it is an Edward Alby play. But we don't see it that way because we tend to take indigenous stories and kind of pigeonhole them as a culture separate from ours, whoever ours is. When actually, you know, my goal is to make it as universal as possible. And I think that's something that it usually takes people a little while to figure out. They're like, oh wait, but it was funny and it was this and it was that. And it spoke to me and it confuses them because they're used to kind of putting it in a separate box when really we're just writing the same plays just from some different cultural perspectives. Gotcha. Yeah, that's why I'm in love with this type of theater because I feel like you cannot hate someone when you recognize that, oh, I would do the same thing in that situation. That that's the beauty of it for me. Well, it's also like the idea, too, that we're we're also similar. Then we are different. And the more nuanced you can go with a story, the more universal it can become because like a lot of these stories with indigenous people, native folks and others that haven't been heard before who haven't had the chance to do so. That's sort of also what we're trying to uplift and create a container for because we know of Edward Albee, but we don't know of, you know, across the country, like other native or indigenous playwrights that exist like Larissa or, you know, across the country. Yeah. Yes, you've got your work cut out for you. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So when you did this workshop in Alaska, it's something crazy like 30 plays came out of that. Yeah, it's a lot. And actually, I ended up is really fortunate this past year I got to direct the play that I was first paired with as a dramaturg in the very first 10 pages by Vera, starboard, Badaard, and then just has World Preview at Perseverance Theatre Company this past year. And I got to direct it. So I got to be with that play from the very first 10 pages four years later to its full production. And it's getting all kinds of attention now and getting published and it's doing really well. So we're really excited. That's kind of been I mean, there have been not the best only way anything you do is success, you know, just getting something on the page is success and exciting. And we celebrate that. But it was kind of exciting that just happened this year that we finally we had the first full production out of that. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's wonderful. And it was the same this workshop. We're having sort of a meet and greet and some information on Thursday. Yeah. But it's just Friday evening, Saturday during the day and Sunday during the day. Yeah. And out of that, out of that in Alaska, you came out with I think like 32 plays. Did you do a lot of work with these playwrights in follow up after that weekend? Yes, actually, we were on doing a lot of long term mentoring with people. Ty and I are both I grew up in South Dakota. He grew up in Wisconsin. So we're both know that hardest thing in working in remote areas, having that support group. And not that you don't have a wonderful support group here in Honolulu. But sometimes it takes someone from the outside to come and kind of create a safe space for you to express yourself and and keep kind of poking at you in a way your friends may not want to to keep you going. And we hope to we definitely continue to be resources for populations we work with that want to continue with the work. Oh, that's wonderful. It's like bringing Penpal back to and redefining what that is, you know, like phoning a friend. So I think it's it's really wonderful because also like it's these are workshops in it. But it's also a way of communicating and sharing culture with like, I feel like when we keep in touch with folks is like, we learn just as much as they're learning to. So it's more of like an exchange of humanity. Oh, yeah, space. And that's what's going to if something's going to bring about world peace, I think that's what's going to do it. You're sharing your stories at that level of real understanding. We have to go to our first break. OK, really fast. OK, we're going to we're going to be right back. Please stay with us. We'll be right back talking more about indigenous direction. Aloha, I'm Richard Emory, host of Condo Insider, a weekly Thursday show at three o'clock that goes all summer long talking about issues living in a condo association. Each week, we bring experts to talk about the rights and obligations of owners and boards of directors to successfully run their condominium. It's a great educational show, answers a lot of questions. We hope you'll visit us sometime. Aloha. Aloha, I'm Kaui Lucas, host of Hawaii is my mainland here on Think Tech Hawaii every Friday afternoon at 3 p.m. Start your Paul Hano weekend off with the show where I talk to people about issues pertinent to Hawaii. You can see my previous shows at my blog, kauilukas.com. And also on Think Techs. Hi, my name is Kim Lau and I'm the host of Hawaii Rising. You can watch me every other Monday at 4 p.m. Hi, welcome back. We are live. This is center stage on the Think Tech Hawaii digital network. If you would ever like to join us in the studio here in Pioneer Plaza in the heart of downtown Honolulu, you may do that. Just email Jay, that's J-A-Y at thinktechawaii.com. If you have a question or something that you would like to add to the conversation, you can do that live, if you're watching live, by tweeting us at Think Tech H-I. OK, we're back with Larissa Fasthorst and Ty DeFoe. And if we could tell us a little bit about your process as we go through the weekend. And I also want to mention the Ford Foundation. I forgot to say that earlier. The Ford Foundation is responsible for bringing you out here, really. And also enabling us to do this workshop for it's 20 bucks a head to take it. That's pretty incredible. OK, so what is your thought process behind your process? How about that? You want to start? You want me to go? No, I'm fine. So one thing that we've learned, and I want to be clear that this particular workshop is not just for Indigenous people. It's for anybody. I just want to be clear on that one. Anyone is invited. What we do introduce into the room that's unusual is a lot of Indigenous protocol. We will start with Hawaiian protocol on Thursday for the reception. And we continue to use Indigenous protocol. We try to decolonize the room in as main ways as we can. We really work to bring people's Indigenous whole selves, Indigenous selves into the room, and have found with people that are not Indigenous, they find it an incredibly enriching process. And a way to take something Western and traditional and kind of look at it from a different lens and from a different perspective. So everything we do kind of starts with that impetus. And although non-Indigenous folks are absolutely welcome to come, I think they should just prepare that they'll maybe have some unusual ways of working that we hope enhance them, both as people and artists. Yeah, and to add on to that too, it's almost like, you know, redefining various ways of working for so long, I think, with theater making, with art making, with storytelling. It's, you know, been overtaken by one dominant culture. And so the idea here is to evaluate people on the room and to allow people to express themselves in the way that they feel comfortable with. Oh, cool. Yeah, and I mean, we're both, I started as a ballet, classical ballet dancer, and then went into writing. Ty's a multi-disciplinary artist and everything. Yeah, I do puppets, dancing, singing, writing. Yeah, he's a composer, he does everything. So we really are open to helping a big part of our workshops and the format of our workshops is really meeting the room where it is. And we don't come in imposing, this is, you know, what we're gonna do, and this is, the structure is solid. We obviously have some structure in mind for us, but we very much find out where the room is, where the individuals are, and we teach in such a way that we can meet each person where they are and help them achieve the goals they wanna achieve in this quick time we have together. It's just a start, obviously, only two and a half days, but we really try to make sure that everybody can get what they need to get out of this time together. That's amazing. That's, it must be a really rewarding way to work. Also, man, you have to be on it. Yes. And it's nice that you're working together. So if one of you is meeting a little bit of support to the others there, how long have you been working together? Oh, it's been a long time now. We first met, I think, 10 years, I think. Yeah, like 10 years or so. I feel like Lewis and I go back into the earth. Yeah, we officially met. That's how long it's been, so. Yeah, and we were brought together to theater and working on projects together, and we've continued to work on both theater projects and then also through our work together at TCG and through Indigenous Direction and Playwrights, and we've worked with so many different organizations together, and it was just natural for us to create our own company and formalize our teamwork. And what does Indigenous Direction do? What's your mission? So Indigenous Direction consults and Indigenous-native protocols. What we do is we work with theaters across the country, but we also work in film and other mediums and disciplines, sort of consulting and shepherding along new ways of making theater, whether it's internal at a theater company or whether it's on the stages. We also do things like advise on script consulting with people if they needed that for film. We sort of are bridge builders and interpreters for people if they're looking to extend outreach in their community, whether it's searching for funding, whether it's looking for Indigenous people so it can go from something very small to something very large, depending on what the institution or company needs. We're definitely huge advocates of building bridges and also excited about interpretation of what that could mean for a particular institution because as we said, and to bring it back, the ground at which you stand, the earth at which you are on, it's different for everybody and we want to also uplift and recognize that too. I know there have to be a lot of companies that don't even realize that they need you, right? We like to believe that. I have to say this, I absolutely love the show Orange is the New Black. Have you? Yes, you've had time to see. Well, in the last season, the girl who's supposed to be from Hawaii clearly was not from Hawaii. Didn't say the name Hawaii correctly. And I'm sure the director, the casting director and maybe even that actress didn't even realize there's an entire way of standing on the earth that is different when you are from Hawaii and it's different. They just didn't know, I'm sure they just didn't know. It didn't keep me from calling them out on Facebook. Good for you. Sometimes we live in this culture of feeling fear to ask the question. It's scary to ask the question. So I think also what we're there for too is to provide a common ground for people to come and ask those questions that where we can be an interpreter or an intermediator for folks too. So that's something, a space we wanted to create. Yeah, that's good. And I hope that more and more people recognize the need for that. And did I hear you correctly? You also work with organizations on like the architecture of the organization itself? Well, with organizations that are looking into either creating programming, like they want to create a new initiative to outreach their indigenous community or work with indigenous artists, we actually help them from the beginning create that program in their organization or that wing of their organization. The other thing we do though is we have done, we do protocol training within organizations and help kind of retrain them on how basic protocols give them cultural competency in dealing with the indigenous populations in their area. We of course don't pretend, we represent three tribes between us. We don't pretend to know all indigenous things, but there are certain knowings we have from all of our work we do with so many different indigenous populations then we're also facilitators to bring the local indigenous population in and make sure that if everything gets very specific to where that theater stands or where that company stands and so that they understand the protocol, they understand how to engage with them, they understand how to open, even just open their show with a proper acknowledgement of the ground on which they stand and who those people are that have given them reluctantly that space. Yeah. And people don't know what they don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if anyone's looking for like professional training development, that's also something that we're, you know, looking to formally do that inside of an institution as well. Oh, very cool. So it seems to me that there is a lot of movement in the country to theater pieces that are more devised, interactive, perhaps more place-based work. Do you see that or am I just imagining that? Oh, no, definitely. I mean, I just finished a piece of Cornerstone Theater Company who's been doing this forever, but we did a large immersive piece that was done with our, not only with the community and through community, but it really depended on a lot of input. Every week it was always changing from community and I think, yeah, there's definitely so much more work being done and that way our group devised work, ensemble work. We both work with a lot of companies that do that sort of thing as artists and it's something we support for sure. Oh, yeah. I mean, the way the world's going now with different, you know, social activity and shootings and hatred and violence and you know, all these things that are going on, I feel like art is a really great way of expressing. It's a great way of connecting people and I feel like devising work, working with community and teaming up to form a community, a safe haven for youth. I mean, that's, I don't know, that to me, that's what it's all about and devising those stories because more often than not, I think people must feel that they're not heard and so I think it's, art's a great way to express and to be heard. Yeah. I'm just hearing, since the two weeks I've been in Honolulu, I've spoken with or advised on three devising devised work projects that are happening right here in Honolulu. I mean, it's amazing, you know, different artists that are starting up collectives and doing that kind of work. It's really exciting to see. It is, it is exciting to see and I, there are a lot of people who are still always gonna wanna be able to go to a theater and watch Oklahoma or Silver on the Roof. Those poor shows, those are always the ones that I pick up. But, I also, I think that there is a new wave of theater goer that is looking for something that is a little more personal and reactive to the world that we live in right now. And I don't, I think there are a lot of people who don't view themselves as artists so they don't get involved in the work. They're hesitant to get involved in the work. And there is something so magical about being able to not only express yourself, but to get inside to the head of someone else to express why they are doing it. I think everyone should try to find an opportunity to play a villain. Just try to find an opportunity to play a villain because to do it well, you have to find why and then once you understand someone else's why on that level, it makes you wanna understand other people's why and it makes, when someone has road rage, it makes you think, maybe they're having a really bad day rather than stick finger. Yeah, I feel like these, you know, sort of teachings are in ancient cultures, like these sort of messages. And I feel like for so long, for thousands of years, people have told these stories with these sorts of like protocols and messages and now it's like listening and defining a new way, a contemporary way of like retelling the stories and also like of the individual. So we can, I don't know, make it a better place to live in for each other. I think so. I think it's up to artists to make it happen. Yeah. I think we should be looking at politicians. Yeah. I think artists are the ones who are gonna have to make that happen. Yeah. Oh, so we just have a couple of minutes left, but if I may put you on the spot for a moment, I would love to hear about anything in the 10 years that you've been working together, what has surprised you? Have you had any like aha moments that have really stuck with you in this work? Wow. Narrowing it down is the problem. There's always so many things. I think, you know, one of the biggest things that I keep relearning again and again is how much we need to create the space for people to make mistakes. And how essential that is. You need to make a mistake to learn. If you can't screw up, you just sit paralyzed. And so a lot of what I do with the many theater companies I work or that we work with is creating that safe space to try to make a mistake, to screw up, to regroup, to go forward differently. And that's incredibly hard, getting harder and harder to find in today. People are very black and white and not allowing for a learning process. And so I hope that our work and the work we do individually can help people do that because that's the only way we're gonna learn. That's awesome. That's beautiful. Yeah. What she said. What she said. I would hope in this, in our world now where, you know, people are broadcasting live on Facebook or on Periscope and we're seeing so much more of people's thoughts immediately. There is a lot of room to, people are screwing up all the time, right? And you can look at someone's post on Facebook and see that they edited it because they spelled something incorrectly. Okay, we didn't used to have that in our world. Right. Really. You had a lot of time to put together whatever is going out there and you didn't see people fumbling and bumbling on camera like I do all the time because people didn't have internet shows. Yeah. So now that we live in this world I would hope we become more accepting of people as we watch people make mistakes and say, oh, okay. Yeah. I did that yesterday morning, you know, on my internet show. Yeah, right. Yeah. Did you know when, you know, so much funding is at stake and the funding is shrinking, shrinking, shrinking people are so scared, you know. There's so, institutions are terrified that they're gonna say the wrong thing and unfortunately what that creates is inaction and not including new populations they don't know about and not doing the work they know they should do but they don't know how to start it because they're afraid of creating a stake that becomes public that affects funding and so I think the more we can create that room for each other, empathy. It goes back to what you said before, empathy. That's the other side of it when you have to be worried about funding. Well, we have to wrap up but on that note I would like to thank the Ford Foundation for supporting all of us to bring you out here. Anyone who's interested in the workshop should contact Kumakuhua Theater. It is this Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and you said if someone is only able to make it to some of those we can accommodate that. Yes, yeah. Okay. Kumakuhua.org to get information or contact us about that. I thank Ty and Larissa very much for being here. I thank you for watching. I would also like to thank Rich Praepus who's our floor manager. He's right over there. Thank you, Rich. And Zuri Bender, our studio overlord who is also in my ear. And I'd also like to thank Jay Fiedel who somehow manages to put all of this together. We will see you next week on Center Stage. Bye.