 Hello, everybody. Welcome to the candidate form for the two candidates running for the Democratic endorsement for the North District City Council seat. I'm Abby Duke. I live in the Village Green neighborhood and I'm the ward seven chair for Burlington Democrats. I want to thank both Karen Durfee and Kenan Christensen for stepping up to run for a city council seat. It's a really important job and it is not easy. And it is a lot of work. Hi, everyone. My name is Owen. I'm the co-moderator here as well. I'm the president of the UVM College Democrats. The format for tonight is pretty simple. Each candidate will give an opening remark for five minutes each. And then Abby and I will take turns asking questions. We have a list of pre-prepared questions that were submitted beforehand. We'll also be monitoring the chat for any questions from all of you. So feel free if you have a question to put it in the chat. Once we start asking questions, each candidate has up to two minutes to answer each question. And we're going to ask questions and get answers until 7.55. And then each candidate will get two minutes to kind of do a wrap up and with the goal of ending at eight o'clock. But after the forum is over, there will be a link on the YouTube site so people can watch it or you can share it with your friends. We flipped a coin before we started to see who would go first and Keenan won. And he chose to go second for opening remarks. So we'll get started with Karen. You'll have five minutes and I'll hold up a sign at two. Two minutes, one minute and 30 seconds. But whenever you're ready, time will start when you begin talking. Okay, I'm talking. Good evening, everyone. My name is Karen Durfee and I'm running for the North District City Council seat. Thank you to the Burlington Democratic Party and the University of Vermont for providing this platform platform for thoughtful discussion. I'm so grateful to be living here where I do. Every day I look out from my window on North Avenue and reflect on what brought me to the city. My name is Karen North Beach, 26 or 27 years ago now and I was working for a grocery retail chain in Rutland. My kids and I love the beach and we would make the hour and a half drive from Rutland to Burlington and stay all day. Eventually we discovered Letty Beach and Ethan Allen Park, and my work allowed us to come to Burlington often, but it still remained unaffordable for us to live here. After visiting Burlington, we were able to move into an apartment on the south end, but like so many, a better job opportunity took us out of the city once again. Finally, in 2006, I took a management position and a pay cut to work at City Market and commuted for years just to be here and be part of this caring, vocal and active community. I'm coming for City Council for the North District to help bring the voice of the people back to City Council. As I interact with community members, I'll be from a distance and virtually these days. I have the privilege of listening to the issues that matter most to new NorthEnders and the challenges they face in their everyday lives. The pandemic has only compounded these issues, concerns about taxes, schools and public safety. These are the very issues that come up in conversation, but they're also in the forefront of my own mind. The cornerstone of my platform is public safety. Like most North District residents, I'm concerned about the impact of COVID-19 on our families and our livelihoods. The pandemic impacted all of our lives and I feel grateful to live in both the city and state where science, we believe in science, protects us all. I currently serve as a police commissioner on the Burlington Police Commission. As a commissioner, my goal is to balance the need for police reform with the need for a responsive and capable police force. In a time of increased economic uncertainty for our families and our small businesses, it's important to prioritize the financial health of our community. Like most residents, I was surprised by and rejected the Just Economy Charter Change proposal presented in June. Knowing that the school bond will take effect this coming year and that our community will still be recovering from the economic impacts of the pandemic, a proposal to increase taxes, even more seems tone deaf and not reflective of the difficulties many of us are facing. In the North District City Council, I will continue to speak up on racial justice, inviting more voices to the conversations happening at the city level. We need to create a safe space for the voices that are not being heard and acknowledge the fact that we need to work together to create a community that is an example of what it means to eradicate divisions built on racist foundations. The North District is home to communities of color, many who are not yet comfortable in joining the citywide conversation that began with the protests this summer. I'd like to end on a note of optimism. As we continue to navigate these uncertain times, I remain hopeful that together we can deliver the desperate change needed at the city level. In the midst of the hill off of Route 2 onto Main Street some 26 years ago, and I got my first glimpse of Lake Champlain glistening in the sun. I knew I would make this city my home, and I am proud to be here, and my work will always be reflective of that. That's why I'm only seeking the Democratic Party nomination. As a resident of the North District, I believe it's important to give voters a clear choice, not one complicated with promises of multiple parties. As your city council, I will be pragmatic listening and seeking the input of my North District neighbors. I'm looking forward to this forum, and I thank you for listening. Awesome. And next is Keenan. Keenan, you'll have five minutes as well and time will start when you begin talking. Well, thank you so much for everyone that's here. I really want to thank Abby Owen and Kevin for putting this together and the Democratic Committee. I really appreciate all the time and effort that went into this. My name is Keenan Christensen and I'm running for the North District City Council seat. And what's motivating me to run is because I care deeply about my community and I care deeply about my neighbors. When I first moved here six years ago, the first neighborhood we looked at was the New North End. And the thing that struck me about the New North End was just how welcoming and inclusive so many of my neighbors were. When we bought our home, we were excited to be here. I remember very vividly when Nicole and Christine came down the block to welcome us to the neighborhood. I had a heavy topper and a fabulous chocolate take. First time I'd ever had heavy topper if it's fabulous. And to me, that kind of community connection and community engagement is really what makes the New North End special and what makes the New North End such a unique neighborhood throughout the Burlington area. I'm running for City Council, because I want to make sure that no matter what happens with this pandemic, we are laser focused on supporting our neighbors, most impacted by the pandemic. We know that Tom is having trouble keeping the New North End food pantry stocked. We know that there are one in four Vermonters are going hungry. And so we as a city need to do everything we can to support our neighbors who are struggling right now. I'm running for City Council because I can get stuff done. I worked with the Burlington School District recently on a number of projects, and what has struck me is that the school district needs our help and needs our support. The twin crises of the COVID-19 pandemic and the PCB issue has caused not only financial chaos for the district, but has created logistical challenges for our neighbors and for our families. I think it's important that our city and our school district work in tandem, and then we work together to find solutions. I'm excited that we found the Macy's as a location for our for our high school students. And I think we can have our businesses lean in to provide just like what the Burlington technical community did opportunities for our students in this moment so that we can continue their educational opportunities and keep them on path to graduating. I'm running for City Council because I want to see a new north end that has a guiding economics star informed by its neighbors and informed by the fabulous local businesses that reside here. We have so many neighbors that have chosen the new north end to be their place to launch their business, and we can work together to make sure that we promote them. I'm excited to be working with Ali Deng and Eric Monson to be creating a new north end business association, and I think that there's so much more we can do to promote the fabulous local businesses that that live right next door to us here in the new north end. I'm running for City Council, because I want to do more to address the housing affordability issue. We know that it's difficult to purchase a home in Burlington, we, many of my friends have chosen to live outside of Burlington because it's just not accessible. We need to be doing everything we can to make sure that whether you're starting a new family, whether you've got a great job at Burton or one of the many other fabulous businesses here in town or whether you're retiring. There's a place for you here in Burlington, and there's a place for you here in the new north end. Finally, I'm running for City Council, because there's so much more we can do to not only keep our community safe, but address some of the very serious concerns we have about the way that we're conducting public safety, and the way that we think about public safety. I'm running for City Council because I believe in building bridges. As a progressive Democrat, I'm excited to have the endorsement of the Progressive Party, and I'm excited to be seeking the endorsement of the Democratic Party, because I believe in bringing people together. And if I'm unfortunate enough to be elected as your next City Councilor, here's my commitment to you. I promise to lift up your voices, to take your concerns to City Hall, to listen clearly to all of you, and make sure that no matter what name you ascribe to, or what party you ascribe to, your concerns are being heard at City Hall, and you feel like you're getting a fair shake here in Burlington. I really want to thank everyone for coming out here tonight. I hope that you and your families are safe. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you, Kenan. Okay, so now we're going to go into the question period remember to put questions in the chat that you want us to ask. We have a bunch that we, the people submitted ahead of time so we'll start with those. Number one, people in New North and sometimes feel like we are sort of outliers in the city. And I'd like you to name three things that you would do to improve communication and engagement between residents of the New North and and the city. Karen, why don't you go first. Sure. I thought my internet froze. Improve. So the question is three things that you would, I would improve to, I didn't hear it because I know it. Sorry. Oh yeah, sorry. So it's basically three things. How, what would you do, or do you have some ideas to improve communication between the New North and and the city. Yeah, that's been a really, that's that's been a challenge. Definitely with COVID and having everything on zoom. You know, I've talked about this with a few folks and I, I definitely would create I've done something with my campaign which is conversations with Karen and I've done these virtual conversations. And I think those are really important I probably would continue to do that and invite folks into the conversation whatever conversations happening at a city level. You know, I've used flyers, you know, I've gone around during the racial justice protest and battery park I printed the resolution, the racial justice resolution and distributed it. People needed information not everybody had a computer down there so I went out and distributed. I think it's really important to because some of the languages is, you know, people need to sit down and talk to you about it. And that's really important. And I think contention constituent response. That's what I'm hearing all over the city is an issue, I'm a responder, and I'm going to answer your question. And I'm going to make sure that I get to it I'm going to make sure that I get to you. And, you know, so, you know, I've been, you know, using email, you know, the impacts of the pandemic do make it hard but I think that's what I would continue to do is continue to have both electronic forums, definitely distribute information. And then if there was a big issue, you know, I find sometimes with valid items or big, you know, resolutions going through I think there just really needs to be, you know, even if you used a flyer, you know, I think I would do that. Definitely get the word out, because I definitely think it's an issue. Thank you, Keenan it's your turn. Thank you. Yeah, no I think that communication between city hall and our neighborhood is vitally important. And I think that there are many ways that we can go about making sure that you all have opportunities to connect, not only with your city counselor but with each other. You know I was proud to have launched the community dinner after my door knocking on many neighbors doors and hearing that more community connection is what people were craving out here. And it was exciting to see 75 to 150 neighbors coming out before the neighborhood planning assembly, and then engaging in our local democracy. I was proud to have launched the book group with Martin Gullick to ensure that our neighbors across the avenues had opportunities to connect with one another outside of city hall and kind of more traditional settings. And I was proud to have launched community brews which not only supported our fabulous local brewery simple roots, but again allowed our neighbors to talk to one another in a less stressful setting. COVID certainly has created challenges, but I do think it's really important that we continue to talk to one another and that we continue to engage with one another. I think that the program that the Heineberg Senior Center has put together with the senior buddies is one way that we can continue to connect with one another. And amplifying that citywide is so important because it ensures that not only do our seniors have connection, but that we can connect our high school students who may also be having impacts on their mental health. And then we can continue to support one another across our communities. You know, I've made over 800 phone calls already to people. I'm very committed to hearing from you. If there's ever an issue please just give me a call or text me. That's 448-0323. Awesome. And the next question will actually start with Keenan this time since Karen started the last one. What do you see as the proper role of police and the police department? I think that our police department does a fantastic job of making sure that our communities are safe and making sure that community members feel welcome here. But you know, we have some issues that we need to work out with the police department and more importantly, we need to be thinking more creatively about what it means to be to engage in public safety. I'm proud to put together a platform that focuses on transforming what public safety looks like. It's informed by research I had done extensively throughout the summer. Seth Sutton who runs, who's a police officer and runs the police research clinic at NYU. I read his book that came out this summer and there's some many fantastic ideas that we can put in place that not only allow our community members to engage with policing, but also, you know, move some obligations off of the police departments, the plate. You know, I think that refunding our mental health clinics and refunding our crisis intervention teams is very important to ensuring that when our neighbors are having mental health crises, that we're giving them the support, not just in the moment of the crisis, but engaging with them before the crisis even happens so that we can make sure that, you know, you don't have that mental health break. I think that we can continue to invest in our schools and our after school programs that allow students to engage in fantastic programs that not only keep students engaged, but again, keep our communities connected. When we think about what public safety could mean. It's really about investing in our communities and investing in who we are as a as a neighborhood. And I think that the more we do to support the other opportunities to engage with our community is so important. I'm thinking of, you know, safe injection sites and interventions in supporting people who are dealing with the opioid pandemic, which is still raging even right now in the pandemic it's impacting people even more. I'm really proud of the work that many of our police officers have done. I've worked extensively with Nikki Moore and the domestic violence field and I think that we have many fantastic officers, but I think that there are many ways that we can transform our public safety and see that I'm out of time. Thank you. Awesome. And Karen. Sorry. Those are some great answers and it's, you know, it's always hard to be second, but that's, that's a hard act of fall. You know, as a police commissioner, you know, this this is good, you're going to be able to tune in tomorrow night, you're going to be able to tune in and listen to the public safety and police commission joint committee on police transformation. Talk about ideas. There's just been some wonderful ideas. I think I'm looking forward to really. As a constituent, you know, there is a concern and I think mental health services have been, I mean, 30 years ago, mental health services were, you know, thriving and now, you know, we've we've cut them and and so it had a direct impact on the police department on our responding to calls that should be responded, you know, to and, you know, our mental health crisis so I completely agree with that. I think what I would like to see is what I'm excited to see is there's an RFP process that's going to take place in our city. It's going to assess the Burlington Police Department. It's resources it's officers and really do that work at a professional level. You know, though I'm, you know, proponent of the resolution that passed. I think we needed to do some work. I think Councilor Deng had some really good amendment ideas to that resolution but here we are the resolutions passed we're doing the work. And I really think an assessment from professionals will tell us where we need to go. And in terms of community, you know, absolutely, you know, working together, you know, Keenan just mentioned everything, you know, from schools to seniors we need to be connected and we need to be, you know, together doing the work and I feel like we're very segmented right now as a community. So yeah, pulling it back together pulling it back to the police commission and the work that I've been doing, you know, I would agree there's a ton of possibilities and I'm excited to be a part of that. Thank you. So for this next one Karen you will go first. I have a discussion about having the City Council be more involved with the school system and especially Burlington High School and facility issues, but under state law the school district is a separate jurisdiction, and we have a school board. What would you do differently? I think we have an amazing school board. Quite frankly, and you know, again, I'm not a politician. I don't have a prepared answer, but quite frankly I've been so impressed with Superintendent Flanagan and the entire team dealing with this crisis from PCBs to a pandemic. And I've been very impressed about how quickly they move. I'm not, I don't think as a BA, as the person was at BHS, I've got a student there, that, you know, although it was very difficult to get through, I don't see a huge issue with saying oh the City Council needs to get involved. Like the school board and the folks that are, you know, especially I can't say enough, the superintendent, you know, has been so responsive. I'm not sure having the City Council be involved would be something that I'd be a proponent of. I see that board working very, very, very quickly, and they're very, very responsive. As you know, I've called, you know, I've said, you know, when is this going to end? What are we going to do? And right now as I look out my window, I see the tech students across the street in the bottom of Cambrian Rise. I know the Macy's deal is done. And so I, you know, I would say no on that, especially with the way the City Council currently functions. Thank you, Keenan. I think that what, you know, how we engage with the with the school board is that we end the kind of siloing of the school district from the city. And I'm really proud, I just want to echo what Karen said, I'm really proud of our school board, and I'm really proud of Martin Gullick, Kendra Sowers and Monica Von Sick, the incredible work that our local school commissioners have put in, not only to securing Tom Flanagan, who is a fantastic superintendent, but to the many hours and many, many late nights that they put in trying to figure out the dual crisis of COVID and the PCB closure of the high school. You know, I'm proud to have the endorsement of Henry Sparks, the director of equity inclusion at the school district. I'm incredibly committed to be working directly with our school commissioners and supporting them in whatever they need. I think that traditionally we have allowed the city and the school district to kind of operate on parallel tracks. And I think the more that we talk to one another, the more that we engage with one another, the more that we can augment and support the many fantastic things that the school district does. For example, the food distribution program that the school put together for our students was incredibly successful, I would love to see the city model that across the across the city to increase increased food security. I think the work that the school district has done on racial equity and LGBTQ rights is phenomenal, we need to be working closely with them and figuring out exactly how we can augment that in the city. And then the city has an important role to support the school district. I think that when the school was trying to figure out where to house our students at Macy's, the city absolutely could have helped in that regard. We could have helped with, you know, maybe working with UVM or Champlain College, or heck, maybe even talking to Burton or dealer calm and seeing you know if they have space that's available or maybe a training program that we can, you know, move some students into so that we continue their educational opportunities. It's about continuing the conversation and reaching out and saying how can I help, and that's what I'm really interested in it if I'm your next city counselor. Awesome. The next question. City place to the development at the heart of the downtown Burlington is at a standstill. What would you support and advocate for that area to become a vibrant part of the city landscape again. And I think we're starting with Keenan this time. I'm going to raise the perennial question my old office overlooks the hole in the ground and I know many of us want to know what are we going to do with that. You know I'm excited to see that folks are moving into the mediation process, but I got to be honest with you if we're just going to litigate this hole into the ground the only people that we know the attorneys, we as a community will not and that's going to delay the development for you know years to come. I mean I'm thinking of my own legal practice, and a lawsuit nowadays used to take two to three years we're looking at three to six because of coven. I don't want to see that holes kept there for three to six more years as we continue to litigate and turn legal fees, which only serves to drive up the cost of the project. What I'd like to do is continue to negotiate in good faith with developers. And then if we're unable to come to an agreement. You know we need to be exploring in a cost benefit kind of analysis whether it's worth, perhaps using the dominant domain power of the city to take back that land and work with local developers like the AFL CIO to bring in new talent and bring in new ideas. I think that if we're you know I sit on the development review board I see these giant projects all the time and many of them are quite successful. Burton just recently was approved of a of a redevelopment project down in the south end and I think I would love to see the same kind of engagement that Burton put in to not only connecting with neighbors, but then addressing their concerns in the project. I think that's so important. And I think that, you know, I wish I had a silver bullet for this is the solution for for city place. But what I will tell you is I'm not going to waste a lot of time litigating the development into the ground. I want to see movement on it and if that means we need to start exploring eminent domain or other options to bring it back into city ownership. Then so be it and that gives us an opportunity to not only re envision what could happen there, but it also allows us to really build up the housing development so that we're getting new housing online for many of our neighbors. Awesome and Karen, the same question to you. Yeah, I really could not agree more. I don't, I'm not a proponent of litigating it any more than it needs to be and it is, you know, it is the question that you know you're going to get asked when you start getting involved. But, you know, truly truly I'm hoping the local developer partner for local developer partnerships will work. We need those we need 85 units. You know, we need, we need that development to succeed we need parking we need everything that I can bring forward. So I think one of the things that I'm excited to hear is movement on the conversation. I think with the high school. I mean you know it's all connected and I think Keenan alluded to this where, you know it's all connected with the high school, you know you start to see a sign of life you start to see something moving something happening. And you know I'm excited. I mean I really do feel that it is going to move forward. I mean, I've been listening into the city council meetings. I don't really have anything to add to Keenan's comments. The only thing that I would say is, you know, we, we, we got into this mess. It is, but I'm, I'm really confident with the conversations that I've been hearing at city council and some of the some of the things that I've seen and heard, you know, from local developers that it's going to move forward so nothing to add all great comments. Very exciting, we're all ready for it to go away. I cannot see it from my office, but I don't want to see it so I was hoping for a skating rink, but I, you know, I think we're headed in the right direction we need to stay strong on that. Great. Thanks. So this is a question that just came in on the chat. From Rachel Smith, I'm concerned about making sure city counselors are responsive to people, not big business. Do you have any parameters on the donations you will take. Oh, and this goes to Karen first. Thank you Rachel for your for your question thanks for, and thanks for watching. I hope we have more than nine people but thank you for watching. Yes, I do have parameters on the donations that I will take. I think that was the question. I think it's easy to, you know, build support for a campaign for city council it's not something that you really need to kind of, you know, nothing's worth compromising your morals and so I would ask a couple of, you know, follow up questions to that but I think the key is no. You know I think it's really important to define, you know, who will people take money from who who will they not and you know what what is what is the issue you know what so I'm not really 100% sure but yes I definitely have parameters on how much and who I will take the funds from it's a city council race and it should not have to be expensive, and it should not your fundraising really shouldn't get in the way of the people and I think that the you said something also about, I want city counselors to respond. You know, I think I talked about this before but I'll definitely respond I'm a hard worker and I'll work, you know to make sure that I'm reaching out to the community and making sure that people are heard. I will not be giving my phone number out but thank you Karen. Kenan. Yeah, it's very simple I only take donations from my neighbors and from people from individuals I don't accept campaign donations from businesses. And that's because I'm all about my community and being responsive to them I'm not seeking to be to represent any sort of special I'm just here to represent my community in my neighborhoods, as far as responsibility knows, my cell phone again is 802-448-0323 free for free to give me a text give me a call happy to chat with you. Awesome. So our next question comes about housing, the average one bedroom apartment rents for around $1400 per month in Burlington. What would you advocate for to increase the affordability of housing and Kenan you'll go first this time. This is such a great question I love it. So there's so many of the issues are connected we talk about climate change we talk about public transportation we talk about housing. So many of these issues are interconnected. One of the things that we can do is reduce parking requirements and some of the new developments that we're doing it's something that we've been exploring on the Development Review Board and I know that people downtown and at City Hall have been talking about. But what's also important for our community is that we also increase opportunities for public transportation. I know it's a little weird to be talking about that in the time of COVID but we're eventually going to be moving beyond COVID. And we again need to be refocusing on how we make public transportation particularly for folks who live way at the end of Ethan Allen Parkway or way off of Shore Road that they have access to the bus system in a way that doesn't require them to walk a mile to get there. I think that when we think about parking requirements that's one of the main things that is sort of snagging these kind of smaller development of apartments. I was actually talking to Nancy Ellis who owns a house downtown and you know it's too cost prohibitive for her to renovate the house to have these one bedroom apartments because she just couldn't get the parking requirements for it. And so I think for me we need to be examining the kinds of zoning that we have in place and the kind of requirements we have in place because many of them are having unintended consequences that drive up the cost of housing here in Burlington. And it also gives us an opportunity to really do our part to address climate change here at the local level to reduce carbon emissions. The COVID-19 pandemic is a symptom of climate change and we need to be doing everything we can as a city to be making not only public transportation more attractive but more accessible for folks so that as we reduce parking requirements downtown we're not privileging those who live downtowns access to downtown we're also making it easy for folks in the new north end to get there as well. Awesome and Karen the same question. Can you repeat that question. Yeah, the question was the average one bedroom apartment rents for around $1400 a month in Burlington. What would you advocate for to increase the affordability of housing. Yeah, you know, I think I say, you know, and every every time I talk about the city is how much I wanted to live here and how I couldn't afford to do so. You know, it's the we've been talking about housing prices and affordability for many, many years I mean in the 30 years that I've been in the state of Vermont this has been a conversation. And, you know, I, you know, I do think there are things that probably come through, you know, DRB there's things that come through planning commission there's all kinds of solutions. You know, you know that talk about modifications modifications for for where we live. You know, I think it comes down to demand I mean they're just there simply isn't enough housing that simply is not enough housing and that's why I'm excited to support city place. I'm especially excited about those 85 units. And, you know, I support the development across the street I mean, you know, it's a tough call. And I know that it's a very, you know, it's very, you know, tough in Vermont to think well you know I really want to live here but can I afford it I mean these are New York City rents that we have here. So I think it's a community. It has to involve local developers it has to involve in, you know, wages, you know talk about interconnectivity. I mean, wages in this city have to move as well. So, you know, Keenan's mentioned parking, I'm mentioning wages, I'm mentioning demand, you know, he didn't had, you know, a number of things I mean it is a very complex issue. And to me it really comes down to you know supporting supporting development and it's, and I'm talking about really being conscious, a conscious developer and committed to our community. You know the reason that I support the development across the street that's a local person, doing the right thing I love seeing Juniper House and CHT going in there so yeah I think we need to we need to boost the we need to boost the number of units that are available to drive down the prices. Thank you. Next question, Karen you will go first this time. Most of party counselors have proposed a 1% local income tax, do you support this why or why not. Look, I'm not going to be pretend to be an, you know, know everything about everything I'm not an expert on a lot of the things that are going through city council but one thing you know I can't support and don't support right now is yet another tax. That's a big concern, you know, Kenan knows his neighbors it's a big concern in our area, it's a big concern for us, you know, 1% income tax. You know it sounds like it's very small but right now I think we just need to pump it, pump the brakes on taxation for a little bit, and just come around to a conversation that I'd like to talk about taxes as a whole. I'd like to talk about, you know, all of the tax proposals, and really sit down and really measure out how that's going to impact my neighbors, my neighborhood, and the entire city. So, the answer short answer is no, maybe I'm not educated enough on them 1% proposal but you know I've, I've been saying I feel you know, you know, like a broken record on taxes. Right now, no. Thank you. The answer is no, and I think that, you know, I really admire the spirit that is motivating the desire for the increase. You know I think that making folks who have you know significant means pair they pay their fair share it's something that Bernie Sanders always talks about you know, making the millionaires and billionaires actually pay their taxes and actually contribute. But you know, I don't think that the current proposal is getting us there and quite frankly I think it is going to be driving up the affordability issue here in Burlington and you know we are dealing with the pandemic right now where where people are just not, you know, and there's a eviction moratorium there's currently a foreclosure moratorium, but when we're coming out of the crisis we can't just be, you know, adding on to people's bills as they're you know trying to dig out. I'd actually love to be exploring ways that we can make you know the tax burden easier for folks particularly out here because of how many people are just barely getting by right now and we need to be uplifting our neighbors who are who are impacted you know piling on top of them and you know I think that again I like the I like the ethos that's motivating it I just don't think that this proposal is the is the right proposal and I think that, you know, as we sort of move forward with the crisis let's start thinking about ways that we can help support our neighbors and help ease their tax burden as we're moving into recovery. Our next question and we'll start with Keenan again bike lanes have been a challenge how do you propose a balancing the safety of bicycles with the use of vehicles on North Ave and the aesthetics of the neighborhood. This is bread and butter issue for the new north end I know that the bike lanes on North Avenue were not well received by some neighbors and well received by others and look. This is about process and this is about engaging people in that process and what happened with the bike lanes and the way that that process went down I don't think was fair to the neighbors that didn't want it. But now we have the bike lanes and so we need to think about how to move forward with them in a way that is safe. You know I was a little bit surprised this summer when the cones came in I know that was a missed a lot of neighbors but you know there is a balancing act here because as someone who runs along North Avenue and runs in the bike lane I did feel a lot safer, knowing that those protective barriers were there. And so what I'd really like to see happen is you know a community conversation around this again I don't think that these issues are so intractable that we can't talk about it neighbor to neighbor, you know, hopefully over beer someday soon with when we're able to do so safely. But I think that we absolutely need to be balancing both parties interests in this and talking to one another. You know, I actually, when you know when my husband was biking to downtown, you know, he would sometimes run the red light and I remember a bicyclist coming over to him and saying hey you know we got to respect the right of the road and that kind of conversation is important. And I think that being very clear about what kinds of barriers we're going to be putting in and when they're going to be putting in and engaging the community is very, very important. Again I always like to cite the example of what Burton did when we were looking at the development review board project because they really did engage the community they went to NPA meetings they talked to people about the issues they read their concerns and then they incorporated it into the project. And that's really what I'd like to see happening going forward with any sort of changes to the North Avenue process matters. Awesome and Karen the same question to you. How do you propose balancing the safety of bicyclists with the use of vehicles on North Ave and the aesthetics of the neighborhood. Yeah, I definitely, I mean I have to agree that this is one of those conversations that did not happen. And it was inflammatory down here I mean, people were outraged that they felt left out of the conversation and I, I'm really, really. It's a really good feeling to hear someone else say that you know Kenan Kenan I've talked a couple of times, but it was it didn't it didn't just there just wasn't enough involvement there wasn't enough engagement and so I'm reminded of when city market expanded into the end to There was a lot of community engagement that was NPAs there were neighborhood forums, you know john Tashiro called his own meetings and really engage the community. You know, I mean, nobody wants to hear tractor trailer trucks delivering in their backyard. No one wants to have extra parking, you know people parked in their spot. And it was a real opportunity to engage the community, you know as an institution. So I would advocate for that I mean, you know, the cones. Okay, they're unsightly but they're a little better than the porcupine humps whatever those were the things that were here before the cones that you know got eaten up by the snow plows. I mean, and again, you know talk about not thinking it through and I think there's always great ideas in a community. Just like there's you know you don't hear. It's not your job as a community leader or any type of leader to come up with what's best for the people that are closest to what impacts them. And so with the bike lanes. So there's a lot of issues in the city at the city level where more community input need to be put in this and this one is a lightning rod for the new north end so very much to add to that I would definitely engage this community with whatever comes next. Next question is about police oversight. For this one Karen you will go first. It's kind of long so bear with me. The racial justice resolution past the summer advises the council to consider charter changes that would provide authority for the citizen led police commission to be involved in police disciplinary decisions. The charter changes committee is also considering the establishment of an independent department with staff to review all police complaints and disciplinary actions. What are your thoughts on this. Thank you for asking. I'm hoping for one meeting tomorrow but it could go to two. So the police commission has the it does provide citizen oversight that the police commission is predominantly is very diverse. It's been the diverse in the city's history and I'm very very proud of that love to be on the commission love to be part of solutions. I believe that the charter change proposal for a citizen oversight board will I think it's going to have a price tag. I think people are not going to be able to afford it. I think it's going to. It's a it will be a valid item so we'll have to vote on it but in my mind that the police commission provides that oversight and I think there's some misunderstanding about what how the police commission operates. The police chief and all you know no police staff are part of the police commission. It is just citizens who don't get paid volunteering long hours to work through the process. Does is there oversight needed. Absolutely. Do we provide that yes and there's been a number of changes that have been made on the commission that you know once again, you know, folks are not aware of people were not engaged in the commission but you know we see every complaint that comes into the portal and in executive session we do make decisions on discipline. Do we need more power on the commission yes, but I would advocate to strengthen the police commissions powers. Give the police commission a little bit more power, as opposed to having a separate board with a paid director and paid staff right now. The city just cannot afford that. So I'm really proud to have put together an extensive memo for counselor Freeman counselor carpenter and representative Hooper on this exact issue. I think I wish I had about 15 minutes to talk about this issue I'm sure Karen does too but it's a complicated issue and you know historically when you think about use of force incidents or the ways that police sometimes violate community expectations. There are many different layers of oversight, but historically the community has never had an opportunity to sort of impart its view of an incident and I think it's so important that we allow the community that opportunity and that there be repercussions for that, because it actually matters for public safety. If the community doesn't trust their police department if they don't think that the police are doing a job that is motivated by anything but good deeds, then they're not going to participate in the process. Think about what it would mean if someone was calling in an amber alert, and the community just refuse to engage because they didn't trust the police department. That means that crime goes on stall. That's a problem. And so community oversight allows us to not only engage with the police department, but to say look, your use of force incident or the incident that you engaged in, it may have been constitutional. It kind of violated the own police department's policies, but it violated the expectations that community has in our police department, and we need to have a restorative conversation around that. And I think that, you know, I'm proud to have put forward this proposal of increasing the powers of the police commission. I don't necessarily agree that we need an entirely new body. I'm excited to see this conversation moving forward because, again, we're Burlington, we're leaders on what it means to not only rethink like public safety, but what it means to engage in the restorative justice process and what it means to make sure that we're holding each other accountable. I have a lot of respect for the police officers that live out here in the New North end. I think many of you have a very difficult job, and I really do appreciate the great work that the vast majority of you do. Awesome. A popular topic of conversation tonight is about a community engagement and I have a good one in the chat here about it. How has community engagement prepared you to represent the residents of wards four and seven. Can you give a specific examples of what you've taken away from those experiences that you've had around community engagement, and this time we'll start with Kenan. Next question. You all know that community is very important to me. And the reason why is both from a theoretical sense but also in a practical sense to hit research after research shows that when neighbors know one another, when communities are engaged with one another, they're resilient to crises. And we're actually seeing that play out right now in the COVID pandemic, because we're all connected because I know if Nicole and Christina are having a problem I can go to the grocery store and get them groceries. That means that as we're moving through this crisis, someone is there checking in on their neighbors and making sure that they're safe. For me, it was all about the community dinner. I heard from many neighbors that we wanted more community connection out here we wanted more engagement, and for years people said we couldn't possibly do it no one wants it, and we managed to do it. And what was so great about it is it brought everyone together over great food, you could connect with your neighbors about issues that were happening before the MPA in a, you know, relaxed environment, and it's important to be doing that, because I'm very concerned about the kind of, you know, partisan rhetoric that comes from the national level seeping into our communities. Look, we're neighbors we're Vermonters we know each other we care about each other. And if I see you in Hanifords I'm going to be excited to see you I want to talk about how your kids doing on the soccer team and I want to talk to you, obviously when it's safe and I got a mask on of course, but I want to know that you're doing it the right way, and that we as a community are engaging. And so that's my commitment to you. I've shown it through my actions and I think that it's vitally important that we all continue to do that I think, you know what the Heineberg senior center did with the senior buddy program was incredible. It allowed us to not only make sure that our older neighbors were getting the support they needed through the COVID crisis, but it allowed me to develop a great relationship with someone of the Heineberg senior center, which I never would have had an opportunity to do community matters and it's important to me. Karen the same question to you. Um, my internet connection I'm so sorry. You know I have to agree 110%. And I, you know, community engagement does matter. You know what for me. I like the way Keenan brought in the national election. And that was a time to snap into action for me I know that I have neighbors across the street at the CHT development, and down the road down to Northgate that I got a lot of questions on voting. I got a lot of questions about ballots. And you know during a pandemic I still masked up and invited folks into my workspace invited folks to my front porch and actually led people through the ballot process. I have a huge thing for me. I'll never forget it as long as I live and that's my specific example here for me community service and community connection, you know, I didn't live here, you know I took a pay cut to be in the city, you know, because it's awesome. And being here serving community being with community, working at a beloved community institution, one minute is really the way that I engage and you know I get to engage with the entire community. I get to engage with kids I get to engage with parents, but specific examples out here you know, I love the gym. You know that's where I've been I was a member that gym for 11 years you know coven's really kind of taken a lot out of my, I do have an elderly mother that I take care of it's taken a lot about out of me getting around but I've really enjoyed constituent conversations, just calling people on the list. I mean just calling the voter role and engaging, because that's what I do. I want to get in front of people. I remember I said today to somebody you know this is awkward this is weird you know I can't really do what I'm the best at, which is face to face. And you know we've got neighbors here you know our neighbors all around us. Nancy next door you know we know and I get what he was saying we know when there's an emergency we know when there's a problem we know when there's alarm going off so yeah I'm happy and proud of this community. And, you know, I'm engaging in it now but helping people vote helping people shop. No time. I love it love the question. Here's a question that has just come over chat. And this one. Let's see I guess that Karen you will go first. It's impossible to find a daycare daycare for a little child in all neighborhoods of Burlington, the wait list is over a year and it's extremely expensive. These things affect the very opportunity for parents to work and support their families. Any ideas about how to about how to address this problem. Yeah, thank you for that question and thanks for asking, you know, as a single mom 30 for so many years. That was always the question and I and I was very lucky to have my mother to be able to help me without my mother I would not have been able to go to school and I would not have been able to work. I wouldn't even be here on this call. And that's just for daycare. You know, I've been looking into starting a cooperative daycare where that would be modeled simply, very simply, much like the co op it would be a membership model fee based sliding fee based scale. I've looked at that with a couple of different people I've looked at it with a small business administration. So I didn't have a job so I didn't follow up on it but that's one of my ideas and you know I'd really like to see that address to the city level. I know that I'm, you know, when I'm working at echo we're really partnering with institutions that do have, you know, first fresh start and daycare, but they're all full and I totally get it I totally and I think we need to make it a priority. You know, these are the things. This is why I'm running for city council, because things like this, you know, need to be discussed at a city level because they have been to some extent, but this is a real worry. We saw it echo that we could not close down completely and we got certified to do childcare because there just wasn't enough in the city. And so that was our idea that was an idea that was sponsored by our donors, but there has to be, you know, maybe one idea is to take that program that we qualified for, because of the pandemic, and expand on it post pandemic, and make it easier for places to become care facilities like echo, like, you know, like any, any other institution, you know, it's not nothing quite like echo but you know other institutions that you know would be able to help with this and expand that program beyond the pandemic. Thank you. Same question, Keenan. This is a great question and I love it because, you know, it's such an important issue, particularly for people living here in the neighborhood. You know, I've had a number of friends who've had kids and you know attorneys who are like wow it's it's cheaper for me to stay at home than it is for me to put my kid in childcare. And if it's not accessible for attorneys it's certainly not accessible for someone who is working, you know, a nine to five or someone who's working a minimum wave job. And there's a combination of issues here. So, Karina Driscoll and I actually worked pretty closely with a couple who was trying to build a childcare center out here in the new north end we had looked at the house that Matt Roberts currently trying to sell right across from the And it was just not economically feasible. I think that we need to be looking at some of the zoning requirements that we have in place particularly out here in the new north end. And there's ways that we can favor making it easier and more accessible for the childcare facilities to be developed because, you know, if we expedite the development process for them if we make it easier for folks to get through development if we sort of rethink zoning out here in the new north end so that we allow those care facilities to come into place. And it just reduces the cost of developing them and it reduces the cost, the entry costs associated with it. I love Karen's idea of, you know, using other community connections to continue to augment childcare, because it is so vitally important that we, you know, give parents an opportunity to find affordable childcare, you know it's an equity issue if one parent has to stay home you're asking that parent to give up a career, a career that they may have worked years to to invest in. And I think that, you know, the more that we explore some of these zoning restrictions and kind of lifting them, you know, and getting rid of some of the unintended consequences and again speeding through the development process for these kinds of development. I think would be a nice step in the right direction to making child developing childcare facilities, a lot more attractive and a lot more feasible. Thank you, Kenan. So I just looked at my phone and it is 754 so we are out of time for questions. I just want to thank you both very much for running for your obvious enthusiasm and engagement and commitment to the new north end that I know I start share and many of the folks who are watching and all of our neighbors share. Thank you for that. And so now Karen has two minutes for sort of wrap up comments, and then Kenan will have two minutes after that. Thank you. I've really enjoyed this conversation. I've learned something about this, learn something about this community through this conversation and I've learned something about I can't even call Kenan an opponent because, you know, some of the ideas that I'm hearing is just what we need in community. And I think that it's really important right now to think about each other. We are in the middle of pandemic. And, you know what, I'm really proud of the north district for putting in, we're just two candidates, there's another candidate. I mean, you have to be proud of this community to have people as active as they are coming out here is saying look, you know, I don't really have the time but I want to make the time because I really care about the people who live here, and I want to do the right thing. And you know, like I said, I'm not a politician. You know, I got on the police commission because I thought it was the right thing to do. And you know, I really didn't hear enough representation at a city level for the people who live in my neighborhood. You know, I am happy to be here, happy to be even for a moment. Yeah, happy. I love the one minute sign. No, it's not a moment, it's a minute Karen, happy to be here happy to be involved in this conversation happy to get new ideas and be energized, and just, you know, all around happy to be part of this neighborhood. I really appreciate all the time and effort that went into getting this together. I think this is exactly the kind of community conversation we should be having beyond even today. I think that, you know, what makes our neighborhood special is exactly what Karen said, which is that we all care deeply about not only our neighbors but the way that our community is represented and the way that we engage with the city and the way that we engage with the state of Vermont. You know, we've got a pandemic that's going on, and we're going to get through it. And when we do, we're going to rebuild and we're going to do so in a way that is inclusive, that brings neighbors forward, that makes sure that our neighbors that were disproportionately impacted through no fault of their own, that they're given the support and the services they need to move forward. I'm running for this position because I care about all of you. I want to make sure you're doing okay. I want to make sure that your families are doing okay. And I want to make sure that your voices are being heard. I really appreciate all of you coming out tonight. And I just want to say again, I hope that all of your families are safe and well. Please stay safe and wear your mask. Thanks everybody. This forum will be posted now on the same YouTube channel so you can send out links to your friends who couldn't come to it. So, you know, people can watch this to learn more about these two great candidates. And if you have not, if you're eligible and you have not registered yet for the caucus, please do so. You need to do so by midnight on Friday because then you will, then the caucus itself is at one o'clock, wait, I'm sorry, midnight on Saturday, the fifth, and then the caucus is at one o'clock on Sunday. It will be about an hour long and then you will get the email the ballot, and you need to vote between two and five. You can also request to vote in person in which case I will coordinate a volunteer to meet you at the Miller Center to take your ballot. Or you can also have one of us will come from the committee will come to your office, you excuse me her house and pick and bring a ballot to you if you if you need to stay at home. So please don't let anything keep you from registering for the for the caucus, unless you have already voted in another caucus and then you can. Oh, and do you have anything to wrap up. There's a lot of good questions that we couldn't get tonight. Unfortunately, if you still have questions, you know, you can give either the candidates a call. You can email them and you can check out their campaign websites. Thank you so much everyone for joining us. I just put the link to sign up for the caucus in the chat and looking forward to seeing folks hopefully on Sunday at the caucus.