 Today we are really happy to host Professor Christine Jacobson, who's a professor of social anthropology and also the director of the Center for Women and Gender Studies at the University of Bergen. Christine currently heads the research project on waiting for an uncertain future and the subtitle is The Temporalities of Irregular Migration and the work package also in the EU-funded project The Right to International Protection, the pendulum between globalization and nativization, question mark. She also conducts ethnography in Norway and France between and she has published extensively on topics such as migration, Islam in Europe, secularism, feminism, multiculturalism, sex work and irregular migration and she is going to talk to us today about her last publication which is I think it's just actually come out or about to come out. An edited volume with the title of Waiting and The Temporalities of Irregular Migration. We are particularly happy to host Christine at this time of the year because in our MA program in migration we have literally this week dealt with the issue of weight-hook and stackadness and so I know that a lot of our students are very much looking forward to Christine's reflections on this as someone has worked for the past five years on such topic. The title of today's presentation is The Power Chronographies of Waiting for Asylum in Marseille, France and so the floor is yours Christine. Thank you so much for joining. Thank you for that wonderful introduction Ruben. Thank you so much for inviting me to speak in this seminar series. I look very much forward to discussing my work with you. As Ruba said I will be building my presentation today on a research project that we just finished and that is called Waiting for an Uncertain Future, The Temporalities of Irregular Migration and as Ruba also mentioned we just published an edited volume on the basis of this project. It came out with Routledge a week ago and it's available in open access version. I can distribute the link if anyone's interested. The book proposes ways to develop waiting as an analytical lens in migration studies through conceptualizing waiting as constituted in and through multiple and relational temporalities and also through highlighting the significance of the geopolitical and chronopolitical locations of waiting. And in the book there are chapters that address the legal, bureaucratic, ethical, gendered and effective dimensions of time and migration among other things. It also includes ethnographic as well as other empirically based material as well as theorizing that cross-cut disciplinary boundaries. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to present some parts from the introduction to the edited volume that I co-authored with my colleague Mayam Carlson and then I'm going to present some material from my own chapter in the book based on my demographic studies in Marseille in France. So while international migration involves human mobility across political borders and has been sophisticated analyzed in spatial terms, it also incompasses multiple layered and complex temporalities. And recently as you know migration scholars have begun to unpack the temporalities at stake in modes of governing migration and how complex temporalities shape migration experiences and practices. And the wait project is situated within this temporal turn in migration studies. Our collaborative work involving researchers with different disciplinary backgrounds and in different geographical locations has aimed at providing critical knowledge about the social cultural dynamics of contemporary migration through foregrounding time as an analytical lens. The project has focused on the form of migration that tends to be labeled irregular, referring to people whose entrance and or dwelling on state territory happens without formal authorization. Notwithstanding the challenges of terminology and different uses, and there are certainly a lot of discussions about which terminologies are the better to use in this context, the focus in the book is on migrants whose presence on state territory is somehow contested and or legally precarious. But rather than approaching irregular migrants as a generalized category, we have situated our analysis within distinct configurations of eagality that are constituted within particular regimes of migration control, as suggested by Degnovas and approach, but also in everyday life beyond legal codes, government policies and bureaucratic apparatuses. So investigating the temporalities of irregular migration, the project as the name suggests has further assumed in on the question of waiting. In the project we have approached waiting both as a social phenomenon that proliferates in irregular migration and as an analytical perspective on migration processes and practices. So we started from the observation that waiting seemed to be fundamental and the experience of irregularized migrants, as described in certain demographic works, and that it was becoming crucial also to representations in both public debate and scholarly work. Inspired by previous anthropological work on the social legal production of migrant illegality by, for instance, Nikolas Degnova, who's also part of the wait project, our aim was to move beyond simply describing this phenomenon and its effects towards also understanding how waiting is legally and socially produced and productive in particular social historical contexts. And because most of the literature that has been published in this field has a more sort of phenomenological intake to the study of waiting and focuses on experiences of waiting. So we wanted to introduce this notion of the social legal production of waiting and how that unfolds. So using waiting as an analytical lens, we examined the complex and shifting nature of processes of bordering, belonging, state power, exclusion and inclusion, and social relations in migration. Aware that the analytical prism of waiting is prone to constructions of migrants as passive and without agency, this has been a critique of some of the literature on waiting. We also used our enographic material to analyze how people encounter, oppose or resist waiting through, for instance, patience, endurance, waiting out, boredom, the use of technologies such as smartphones and true political mobilization. Now some works had already analyzed waiting as a significant fact of mobility when we started the project. But there was a need to further explore waiting as a particular engagement in and with time. While waiting is an inescapable part of life in modern societies, most people, if not all, experience multiple forms of waiting in our daily lives. Differences related to class, gender, race and legal status position us differently within time and space. Existing literature has related waiting in irregular migration to the condition of political legal exclusion, often conceptualized as a form of protracted in between time through concepts such as liminality and limbo. Through our enographic work, we discovered that the temporalities of irregular migration are more diverse and complex than this widespread focus on limbo and liminality can lead us to think. Waiting by migrants involves different geographies, other people and phases of life. It is constituted through time frames related to the nation state and its efforts to control migration, but also to capitalism, labor, technologies, as well as to the temporalities of biological bodies in the shape of, for instance, aging and reproduction. Vulnerable groups are particularly exposed to multiple firms of waiting for different things at the same time, as among other Ghazan Hajj has pointed out. In the context of migration and displacement, different objects of waiting and different types of waiting go parallel to each other and overlap one another. Waiting and migration can include both what we can call situational forms of waiting, including waiting for public services and bureaucratic decisions or the simple fact of just standing in a queue, and more prolonged and open-ended forms of existential waiting for regularization, for justice or for better futures. So to unpack these entanglements of waiting, we engaged theories of time to carve out an understanding of waiting and the temporalities of irregular migration as both multiple and relational. Taking temporal complexities seriously, we contend involves attending to the relations between social framings of time, including, for instance, abstract measures of time and routines associated with state bureaucracy, capitalist production, social reproduction and cultural norms, and also to human experiences of time. To unpack such multiple and relational temporalities, we paid attention to structural elements of time, including such things as a tempo, rhythm, timing, duration and directionality. We identified a number of temporal techniques that are variously deployed in migration control and involved in the production of waiting, such as, for instance, acceleration, deceleration, circulation, delay, suspension, sequencing, periodization, temporariness and indeterminacy. Further, we paid attention to the relations between different temporalities by examining, for instance, processes of synchronization and recalibration, disjunctures and gaps. I'm going to come back to some of these concepts and exemplify some of the ways in which we're using them as I move on to my ethnographic discussion later. One particular concern and recurrent discussion in the project was how to deal with the often tacit normativities implied in the concept of waiting. Developing the concept of waiting analytically, we discovered that the underpinnings of the concept risk reproducing certain normative structures. In unpacking these normative underpinnings, many of us were inspired by feminist and queer work, problematizing ideas of temporal homogeneity, linearity and progress. Waiting is deeply enmeshed in modern conceptions about linear time and progress. In modern societies, time is associated with success and money and approached in terms of how it most efficiently can be used. In this context, waiting symbolizes waste, emptiness and uselessness. The idea of waiting also risks reproducing nationalist framings of irregular migrants' futures as a question solely of inclusion into the nation's state. In many accounts of irregular migrants' political legal exclusion, the state assumes the position as what we could call the redemptive endpoint to waiting. So, Karjan Drangstrand, for instance, in her chapter, shows how migrants' time in the German context is conjured up to futures defined by the state and its economic and demographic concerns. Such account ignore migrants' relations to different geographies, temporalities and other people and other possible futures than inclusion into the nation's state and existing political legal configurations of membership. So, analyzing waiting as a particular engagement in and with time in migration entails an engagement and critical exploration of how different presence and futures are conjured into being. A third risk that I want to mention with the using waiting as an analytical perspective is that it also risks reproducing particular gendered and heteronormative lifecycle expectations and expectations of productivity and development, including marriage, parenthood and paid labor. There is thus a need to further problematize the gender sexual class and racialized norms that are often implicitly found in ideas about life's put on hold, on hold from what, be it from particular lifecycle expectations or expectations of productivity and development. So, the others in this volume, they seek to acknowledge migrants' experiences of waiting and having their lives put on hold, but without reinscribing such gendered sexual class or racialized normativities. The temporal ideas of norms of progress, development of becoming an adult, growing up, underpinning experiences and account of waiting are thus unpacked as part of the analysis in the book. So, rather than taking the normative times of capitalism, nationalism, and the heteronormative family for granted and seeing irregular migrants that's outside of or excluded by these social temporalities, weight researchers have paid attention also to how waiting may serve to open spaces for new subjectivities and relations. So, I want to move on now to present some of my own work, which is also one of the chapters in the book. The chapter is based on several periods of fieldwork conducted between 2012 and 2018 in Marseille. During this period, migration to France was marked by movements onset by the so-called Arab Spring and protracted conflicts in Africa and the Middle East, particularly the war in Syria. In the chapter, I assume in on migrants who had sought, who were in the process of seeking or who intended to seek regularization under the asylum law and who had a precarious legal status at the time of my research project. I conducted interviews with migrants and activists, representatives of non-governmental organizations and public officials working with migrants. But more than anything, participant observation was crucial to gaining a thicker understanding of how waiting is both produced and experienced. Being with migrants in timespaces of waiting and accompanying them in their struggles to get, to regularize their legal status or to get by, importantly it tuned me to both the material and effective conditions of waiting and I use that also as an intake to my analysis. Thus, I base the following analysis on research processes grounded in reflexive contextualization, co-presence and cooperation with the people whose lived experience I base my analysis on here. Now, in thinking about waiting and temporalities as multiple and relational, I have been very much, I personally have been very much inspired by Sarah Sharma's work and in particular the concept of power chronography and temporal architectures. Sharma extents during Massey's seminal theory of power geometry to point to how not only spatiality and mobility but also temporality is both shaped by and reproduced power differentials in society. Power chronography draws attention to time as a form of power structured in specific political and economic contexts, a site of material struggle and social difference. It explains variegated and intersecting social temporalities and their power effects on differently situated subjects. A complex composition of laws, built environment, services and technologies, what Sharma calls temporal architectures structure the time of irregular migrants and asylum seekers. In the chapter that I'm presenting to you here, I'm particularly interested in how migrants recalibrate to put it with Sharma, that is how they synchronize their body clocks, their sense of future or the present to the tempo, duration and directionality of such temporal architectures. Recalibration is very much about the micro politics of temporal coordination and social control between multiple temporalities. Expectations to recalibrate time permeate the social fabric differently for distinct populations and for irregular migrants or migrants in a precarious legal situation, the request to recalibrate by waiting is ubiquitous. Everywhere you go, when you're in the field, there are posters saying, please wait and people are told to pass on to you, but such waiting and this request to recalibrate by waiting at the same time is configured in a broader regime of what I call accelerated migration control. Reducing the waiting time of irregular migrants and asylum seekers has been a target of recent migration policies in France. The temporality of migration control is characterized by efforts to speed up and by a multiplication of temporal borders. As in other European countries, acceleration is hailed to enhance migration control and make the asylum system more efficient. This has already been studied for the UK case. For instance, in an article from 2004, Sivana argued that the time politics of asylum in the UK from the 1990s on was characterized by an attempt to reorder and resynchronize the movements and fates of a fast increasing number of asylum seekers by speeding up the asylum process through new legislation and administrative procedures. A time politics of speed and acceleration also characterizes contemporary French approaches to migration control. The asylum law reform of 2015 and the revised law on migration and asylum of 2018 reiterated the aim to accelerate procedures towards regularization on the one hand and towards deportation on the other hand. One way in which the time politics of speed is translated into practice is through redistributing of time taken and given by the state in the asylum process. With the revised laws, the deadlines to apply for regularization and appeal decisions were significantly shortened while the temporal frames of the detention and deportation regime were significantly extended and extension legitimized by the need for a more speedy process of deportation. The ambition to speed up restructured the temporal architecture of the asylum system with consequences for the tempo duration and directionality of migrants waiting. So what I'm interested in here is to examine the specific ways in which waiting is produced, distributed and experienced within such accelerated temporalities of migration control. So a first thing to note is that the pressure for acceleration rarely matches the everyday of migration control. Acceleration as a technology of governing migration therefore tends to produce gaps and assign people to waiting in ever more precarious situations. For instance, the reform of the asylum law in 2015 established a new system for registering asylum applications in France which was intended to accelerate the process and reduce waiting times. From then on, all asylum seekers were required to pre-register with first reception platforms who then distribute appointments to the so-called single desk at the prefecture where asylum claims are registered. This means that rather than waiting as asylum seekers, migrants wait with a future appointment at the prefecture to register their claim as their only protection from deportation. While an appointment to register a demand for asylum should in theory be given within three working days or 10 in periods of exceptional influx according to the law, figures collected by an NGO called Marseilles Asylum Observatory showed the average waiting time in 2017 and 2018 to be 40 days after registration with the first reception platform. Interestingly, the observatory makes a point of counting not only working days but the full number of calendar days pointing thus to a split between the duration of waiting time from the perspective of those who make people wait and those who are made to wait. Asylum seekers do not take time off from waiting during weekends and holidays in the same way employees who process their applications do. The fixing of appointments to the single desk is automated and computerized, the effect of which is both to put the waiting time of asylum seekers beyond the control of employees at the first reception platform and to produce a certain randomness in waiting periods. The observatory registered such randomness in waiting periods in their report noting that individual appointments were given in 52 days, 28 days, 51 days, 25 days and then suddenly two days, then again 54 days, 34 days and 23 days. The technologies that are part of the overall temporal architecture in this case contributes to migrants experience of uncertainty as to how long exactly they will have to wait. While official statistics show a reduction of average waiting times for asylum seekers from 226 days in January 2015, 214 days in 2017, these statistics do not count the days of waiting to register the asylum application. So the gap between the three-day limit set by the law and the temporalities of the infrastructure that regulate actual access produces an interstitial time space during which the protection from deportation is weak and access to welfare and healthcare extremely limited. Consequently many migrants in Marseille wait in conditions of great precarity. The employees at the first reception platform are part of this temporal architecture which makes irregular migrants and asylum seekers wait before the state. Despite being employed by NGOs their function as a first reception platform which mediates access to the prefecture and the French office for immigration and integration make them crucial to migrants experience of waiting as a form of power. This does not mean though that only asylum seekers are made to recalibrate to the deceleration and acceleration of various parts of the asylum procedure. Observing and doing participant observation also with the employees at the first reception platform made me aware of how employees struggle to keep up the pace necessary to process the line of people who queued up in front of the platform every day. Attending morning meetings was akin to being in the calm before the storm as everyone knew that there would be no more breaks or slowdowns until lunch. Employees worked long days under high pressure worrying about many variables only partly within their control. So in September 2018 employees went on strike supported by around 20 NGOs and demanded a reinforcement of staff to absorb waiting lines and provide a more dignified reception of asylum seekers. The waiting time produced by the asylum system is often conceived as an empty and delayed time that needs to be filled. Employees at the NGO running the first reception center talked about how asylum seekers must find ways to manage the waiting time and how the manageability related to the material reception structures. But common to this was a way of thinking about the waiting time of asylum seekers as empty and as need of being filled. In particular given that they were also deprived of the right to work and thus excluded from one of the major temporal rhythms of contemporary society. Employees at the first reception platform were enrolled in managing and normalizing this waiting time both by instructing asylum seekers to wait and to be patient and by telling them that that it is normal that they must wait. Now the pressure for acceleration of procedures was met with considerable ambivalence by my interlocutors who worked in the reception structures. On the one hand they saw prolonged waiting as creating a lot of anxiety and as associated with deterioration of physical and mental health. On the other hand they feared that the consequences of acceleration would be a further priorization of migrants and entail an erosion of their rights. With the shortening of the time limit for registering an asylum application applicants would have less time to gather information learn about the system and prepare their dosher. Accelerating the asylum procedure would also some word make asylum seekers less prepared to start a new life should they be granted asylum. And this perspective waiting time was not only seen as empty time to be filled but also as a time of preparation to learn to know the asylum system to learn French to get an education and to get to know the society. While this understanding of the management of time privileges and understanding of integration as the prospective future of asylum seekers the current French policies of acceleration are geared primarily towards more effectively excluding those who are deemed by the state to be irregular. Now the question of using the time spent in waiting is even more complex however if we see the waiting time as intersecting with temporalities related for instance to reproduction health and labor. And here we can also start to think about the what Barbara and Lamma has called the discrepant temporalities of migration the ruptures between how migration is imagined both individually and collectively by migrants and how it is imagined by by the authorities and states and institutions. So in my chapter I show how the usurpation of migrants time by the asylum system and bureaucratic procedures may further characterize them for instance within the labor market. Their time is coded as empty waiting time in need of being filled rather than as potentially productive time geared at the realization of migrants own presence and future projects. Bob's case is illustrative for this. For several years Bob had been suffering suffering from severe stomach pain which ate him from inside as he put it and prevented him from working. Seeking healthcare upon arriving in Marseille Bob was advised to register as an asylum seeker before the hospital could administer further medical examination. Recounting his conversation with the doctor Bob explained I said but my problem is not primarily that of needing protection as an asylum seeker my problem it is my health at least that is what I want first but they told me no you must go and demand asylum first so now I will go and ask for asylum but I'm tired and I want to go to the hospital first. For Bob finding out what was eating him was a primary concern not least because of the pain and fatigue he was experiencing. Despite the experienced acuteness of his health condition of being prevented from normal social interaction of getting thinner and less muscular every day and not being strong enough to work Bob had to recalibrate to the temporalities of French migration management. Bob's immediate concern to get medical treatment was not only related to his individual health but also to how his migration was collectively imagined and its temporality relationally constituted. In Mali Bob's wife and children were waiting for his remittances to arrive so they would be able to pay for subsistence schooling and the house they were building. Haunted by the urgency of supporting his family back home Bob waited every day at the roadside outside the primary site of informal labour in Marseille to be picked up for a day or more of work. It was vital to post in the early morning when entrepreneurs and private persons drove by to engage workers and the risk of being detained increased when the police started patrolling usually by the late morning. The rhythm of informal work however was forcefully interrupted when Bob prompted by his medical condition recalibrated to the asylum procedure. As we were waiting at the first reception platform an employer or Bob worked for a rank to offer him a job in construction work for the next few weeks. Hanging up Bob explained to me that between queuing at the first reception platform the appointment at the prefecture the waiting line at the emergency clinic and the regulations of entry at the emergency housing unit where he slept he would not be left with any time to actually do the job. So rather than just filling up the delated and empty time of waiting the temporal architecture of the asylum procedure governed Bob's time in a very particular way. This may be analysed in light of Ruben Anderson's suggestion that irregular migrants are not simply put on hold or slowed down rather their time is devalued and usurped in endless bureaucratic procedures or as Le Coran puts it the undocumented are not only those who do not have the right to be present they're also those who are dispossessed of the mastery of time. While this situation of recalibration is certainly an expression of the devaluation of the time of undocumented migrants and can be read as a form of dispossession one should note that recalibration to economic and political dominant temporal structures is far from unique to those with a precarious legal status. Rather we could see it with Sharma as an uneven investment in time along a range of social differences such as race class gender labor and immigration status. Now the latter question of immigration status is important given that the time politics of accelerated migration control is importantly geared towards timely deportation fast deportation of those migrants deemed irregular. So before I end this presentation let me say something about the temporal architectures underpinning the expanding detention and deportation regime and how waiting is produced distributed and experienced by those who are awaiting deportation coinciding with efforts to accelerate the treatment of asylum applications and to speed up the return of those who fail. The creation of differentiated tracks has given rise to a proliferation of material structures that organize the waiting of asylum seekers and configure the tempos duration and directionality of waiting in particular ways. The dismantlement of the informal camps in Calais and Grands Sainte as well as certain parts of Paris in 2017 led the French government to create new forms of accommodation and orientation centers destined at those who are categorized as Dublin or on the fast track towards deportation and of course we know that within asylum politics being in the fast lane is not a privilege as we usually associated and for instance with international travel. The temporal rhythm in these kind of centers is characterized by the requirement to report regularly to the police station. Less one will be considered absconding. These centers are characterized by the absence of investments into the lives of their inhabitants so there is not the future prospect of integration which would require some form of language training or other forms of training. The absence of temporal investment leaves inhabitants out of sync. One can say with the temple orders of French society recalibrated instead to the temporal architecture of the asylum system and the Dublin agreement and punctuated by the duty to report to the police. So unlike Bob who was waiting to register his asylum claim Bashir a young man from Sudan was waiting to be sent back to Italy. Bashir experienced waiting time as delated, empty and repatitated. He told me there are no projects there is no program for the day you wake up you eat you sleep you eat you discuss with your friends and you pass time you pass the evening and the day passes like that it's always the same routine but little by little you become disgusted by life because you stay there and you do nothing we are bored we are broken. To Bashir waiting time is empty a repetitive eternal present characterized by boredom and passivity. The feeling of temporal dilation and spatial retraction was accentuated by the isolated location of the center waiting as a doubliner or in other fast tracks was further characterized by sudden ruptures in ruptures in the form of events of expulsion a constant source of strong uncertainty and nervousness to most. So Bashir told me that you wait for the day of your expulsion how much time before your expulsion it could be tomorrow tomorrow they could send you to Italy. Of the people I arrived with two were already scheduled and they expulsed them to Italy three others who given they did not want to go ran away so now they are wanted by the border police in the middle of the winter they ran away whether they find somewhere to sleep is up to them. In this grim light Bashir was incessantly contemplating his own options to stay in the center and wait for a sudden expulsion to arrive or to escape and try to stay off the grid until his status as a doubliner which was how he referred to himself was finally broken as he put it. Managing to live undetected by the authorities for 18 months would give him the possibility under the current Dublin regulation to file a new asylum application in France. Now the question of timing or staying and moving at the right time was thus crucial to the consideration of those anxiously awaiting deportation. While escaping and hiding can be seen as a way to circumvent state management of waiting time efforts to circumvent waiting can also be imply political mobilization. So Bashir in this case did not only recalibrate to the tempo imposed by the administrative procedures of the asylum system. Despite his experience of temporal delation, emptiness and boredom he managed to transform the waiting time into building up a social network mobilizing together with local activists to protest the conditions of living at the center. At a series of public meetings he denounced the politics of abandonment represented by these structures and called for migrants to hold French authorities accountable to their professed ideals of universal human rights. In an appeal co-written by migrants and local activists they demanded the annulment of the Dublin procedure, a stop in deportation, the acceptance of their right to demand asylum in France, in France the demolition of the center and access to education and vocational training. Solidarity and political mobilization are difficult to build in haste though. In the midst of his efforts to change not only his own but also other migrants waiting situation the accelerated temporality of migration control suddenly caught up with Bashir. He was arrested during one of his weekly reports to the police station. The next morning before his friends and activist network had time to mobilize he was put on a flight to Italy where yet another cycle of waiting for an uncertain future was about to begin. So to conclude very briefly before we move on to the discussion I have attempted in this lecture although very sketchily to give some examples of how we can explore waiting as a particular engagement in and with time. This has required attention to different dimensions of temporality different dimensions of time including tempo duration and directionality and also to how temporality is multiple and relationally constituted. Paying attention to how the waiting of migrants is legally and socially produced and configured in the current French context I have examined speed or acceleration as part of the mechanism of migration and border regimes. The notion of power chronographies I have found helpful because it avoids taking acceleration as a given of contemporary societies or positing a simple opposition between fast and slow classes or those waiting and those who make others wait. Instead it points to variegated and intersecting social temporalities and their power effects on differently situated subjects. Given the extensive critique of protected waiting situation voiced by migrants and migrant right activists one would perhaps expect speeding up to bring migrants in sync with the speed of contemporary society reducing the stress associated with protracted waiting. But in this in my chapter I try to nuance this understanding of acceleration and deceleration. So I argue that efforts to speed up the treatment of asylum applications as well as the deportation of those cast as irregular have restructured the temporal architecture of French migration control. The politics of speed produces gaps in time spaces of waiting during which protection from deportation is weak and access to welfare and health care extremely limited. Investigating waiting as constituted within multiple and relational temporalities I've tried to show how migrants with a precarious legal status recalibrate to a composition of laws built environments services and technologies synchronizing their bodies and life projects to the tempo duration and directionality of complex temporal architectures. By doing this I hope to have exemplified some of the ways in which waiting can serve as a prison for critical analysis in migration studies and beyond but also to have warned against taking the normative underpinnings of waiting for granting and the for granted in the analysis. I hope the perspectives that we have developed can resonate also beyond the field of migration studies and indeed the the analytics of waiting and temporality seems to have particular purchase in the current situation as ever more people experience their lives as put on hold and the future seems increasingly uncertain for many as a consequence of the pandemic. So if you're interested in seeing how we can also work with waiting as an analytical prison to think about the current pandemic situation I encourage you to have a look at our project website and some of the interventions where we have mobilized the analytical perspectives developed in weight to think about how the pandemic on the one hand has been generalizing some of the temporal frames that we found salient in the lives of irregular migrants but how it has simultaneously as we all know illuminated the many lines of differentiation including not least the socioeconomic materialities which condition people's waiting for uncertain futures. So I'll leave it there and yeah thank you. Christine thank you so much for this wonderful presentation and for taking us into a very interesting ethnographic context around the politics and subjective experiences of waiting in the French asylum system. I'm sure there are lots of questions one of the things I wanted to say is that it's quite nice to see that some of the people who are going to be actually some of the colleagues and scholars who are going to be also giving papers in this seminar were actually attending the talk one was Safet Muhamedovic who just left us and he's going to give actually his own talk on weighthood which is also his work in a couple of weeks time and others also here so it's nice to to to see that we can build a transnational community of scholars thanks to the online potentiality I would say. So I have lots of questions but I would like to first invite our patient audience to see if they have already formulated some questions that they would like to pose and I would invite anyone who wants to intervene to just raise their hands and take the floor. Okay so while people are gathering their thoughts obviously these are complex issues and I'm sure that with the way you ended the discussion obviously brought us back to the the here and now of the pandemic I was very intrigued by your what I perceived as a sort of disjuncture between the introduction of your talk and ethnography whereby in the introduction you took us into an idea of how the exploration of time can lead us to or can be agreed into rereading or contesting what others have called methodological nationalism so in your introduction you were mentioning how for example this work in particular your your research in the past five years with the colleagues that participated in it as well allowed you to produce a contestation of the heteronormative capitalist nationalist racialized regimes of time but then actually during the talk and obviously you you did tell us you did warn us that you were going to obviously focus on one particular instance which is what you call the redemptive end of waiting of the asylum of in the asylum system in Marseille but in you know throughout the actual ethnographic part of the talk you you this promise of the engagement with time went a bit lost and we we see rather like a clear example of of the way in which the control of people's times contribute to their disposability and assumes their disposability to start with the idea that migrants anyway have no nothing to do have no time have no connections have no families waiting for their remittances as we showed have no plans for life and so on so it assumes and reproduces that kind of disposability so I wanted to kind of invite you to reflect a bit further on this how if there were examples in your ethnography that is obviously really extended and multipolar of these contestations that you talked about at the beginning and my second question while people also gather their thoughts is in relation to your discussion around intersectionality and towards the end you said something really important something really interesting in my view that is that we should adopt intersectional lens to understand the work of time or control of time and therefore of waiting because the regimes of waiting that are imposed on asylum seekers are not exclusive to them I mean they are imported and reproduced from other contexts so I was I also was very intrigued by these and I wanted to to see whether ethnographically there were examples that or there are examples that you can bring to us in relation to how these regimes of weighthood are enacted from and reproduced across gendered settler colonial and liberal liberal regimes for example so these are my two questions for now and if there are no questions from the audience I as of yet I would welcome your thoughts on these two to start with thank you Ruba for these great and quite large questions you quite right that in the introduction I made a general point about how we had been how it had become important to us to avoid assuming this particular narrative of a linear kind of waiting time from exclusion to inclusion in the nation state sort of with where the future and the the temporal movement is thought as one and as having a particular kind of directionality and redemptive endpoint and I think we can agree that that there is a risk about that that but we as researcher and many activists etc risks running into because we focus on the kind of legal political exclusion from the state which is sort of what defines the condition of a legality or a regularization of migrants so that was meant as a more sort of general warning and I don't think that I assume in my own in my own ethnography that those are the endpoints or the only futures in view for the migrants that I talk about but I don't spend much time on unpacking those alternative futures or opening towards those and you're right about that sort of my account focuses primarily on power chronographies and acceleration as a form of power and aspect of migration control but I try to point out by talking about those other relationships to other geographical spaces to families in other locations to the futures represented there by relationships to other people etc and other chapters in the book do that much more than I do in my own chapter so that is part of but it's also something about being aware of thinking about but what kind of futures we are talking about and what kind of presence we are talking about and not assuming that they're one and that they're all contained within this story of this framing within the nation state as for your other question about the intersectionality I completely agree with you and one of the discussions we've had in the WEAP project is of course whether there's something particular about waiting in irregular migration or in the condition of illegality and to what extent those are part of sort of broader productions of temporal inequality in different kinds of boat geographical and historical contexts as you mentioned yourself for instance colonialism and as related also to gender sexuality race and class and I think we have been trying to make those connections but without sort of creating this homogeneous picture of some parts of the world or some groups as always in a situation of waiting etc as we're precisely mobilizing this idea of intersectionality to look at different historical and geographical conjunctures of production of waiting but I think there are many interesting parallels and of course we draw upon literature that talks about waiting as more sort of widespread conditions in certain parts of the world and in certain socioeconomic positionalities in our discussions and the ways in which we think about waiting in our own project. Right thank you very much Christine that was great so we have one question I can't unfortunately I can't pronounce the name because it's written in so if you can whoever is yeah hi I'm so sorry I'm using someone else's computer my name is Bea and that's written in Greek yeah sorry for that that's Greek okay yeah so I have a question actually it's a bit related to the Ruba's last part of the question I was wondering what kind of differences maybe if you could talk about the different experiences of waiting between different migrants or different migrant groups with different backgrounds I'm also working on well migrant waiting and the hope I've been working in Greece but I've been working with a specific group of political refugees from Turkey and I realized that their political subjectivities are really important to the way they understand the waiting and the way they survive this extended transitionality and the way they interpret it and deal with it and the way they find the sources of hope in this seemingly hopeless situation and I was wondering if you noticed some interesting ways in which people subjectivities religion background age sexual identity orientation and so on affect the way they experience the waiting you have maybe some examples that would illuminate the differences yeah I think that that is is very important and perhaps particular when it comes to to political subjectivities and relation to waiting and in relation to thoughts about past and futures that are opened up in different situations of waiting what we have primarily been focusing on is we have not worked so much with the point of departure in different groups but through looking at the encounter with the legal and bureaucratic authorities and the kind of experiences of waiting that are produced there so we would get a different material and a different understanding of the subjectivities and often waiting if we took for instance as a point of departure as you may do Palestinian diaspora somewhere etc so that has not been been our primary concern but we have been looking into of course how for instance such things as hope or future imaginaries may be created for instance in in dialogue with various religious communities and how one thinks about prospering how one thinks about progressing how one thinks about futurity for instance in relation to different religious imaginaries and things like that so that are part of the different case studies that we have looking at that but it is also the case that that our focus has been much on sort of the the social legal production of waiting and that sort of encounter and how that shapes our subjectivities. Thank you so if you can introduce yourself also when asking question just because I think it's nice to know each other given that we are so remotely connected so I think that was Beha from the University of Cambridge if I'm not mistaken um so we have a question from we have a question from David uh do you want David do you want me to to put the question on for you or do you want to unmute yourself yeah okay if you want me to talk yeah please you can introduce yourself briefly also yes um my name is Oludair David I came from Bowie and I'm a first year student and source and I was privileged to actually in my foundation yeah I was privileged to write this mini mini skew search report um on the so why me I wrote the borders yeah and then it was it was a small scale just to look at the impact of the hostile environment on regular migrants who for some reason in their life I've had to claim asylum and how impact and obviously there was a small scale interview and all of that but my question is um the terminology hostile environment that was phrased was coined by a Labour UK Labour Minister Alan Johnson and um I noticed that asylum um seek a treatment very vastly all across I can even say across the world and the asylum law is not particularly a local word for my own understanding from what I've read it's not a local law it's an international agreement but the treatment of people very vastly and of course this hostile environment would you in your view would you say this is a kind of a hostile way of treating the asylum seekers I mean in your experience what would you say um I haven't worked myself with the concept of of the hostile environment so I'm not very familiar with with this concept um and um but there are um it resonates with other things for me so among other things I've been thinking in relation to the concept of temporal architectures that I was mentioning I've been thinking about the sort of the materialities and and the the infrastructures of temporal architecture as hostile and then invoking or thinking about the for instance the very sort of concrete concrete hostile architectures um that are um the waiting space or the spaces where asylum seekers wait are very often not configured to accommodate waiting or bodies in waiting so that the kind of hostile architecture you even find sort of you know these peaks being put out um put up that are impossible to sit down you know outside for instance public offices etc where asylum seekers wait so there is that level of very sort of concrete material uh kind of hostile architectures that are not um um and that is a great contrast to if you see how sort of waiting is is configured in ways that cause this less as little trouble and pain for bodies as possible for instance sort of in in airports where you try to facilitate waiting or especially in past tracks and lounges etc so this said there are interesting things to think about there definitely but for the sort of notion of the hostile environment I haven't worked with in that particular way thank you Christine um so we have a question from Malus a colleague in the department of anthropology Malus yes sorry I am muted myself thank you very much for this interesting talk and sorry for joining late but I was I keep on saying I was running from meeting to meeting I'm moving from one room to another actually but still there was another meeting so apologies if what I'm saying is not really relevant but I'm struggling with this notion of waiting so I work in um also in well in West Africa and I work on youth studies and in youth studies is notion of weighthood is quite important because youth is studied as a kind of um well a period in life as weighthood um young people don't have the financial means to marry and don't have the financial means then to reach adulthood so they are living in weighthood so on the one hand I think is a very powerful concept and Alcindor on Vama has written a lot about it an anthropologist but I also find a problematic term because it reduces people to just waiting and it somehow assumes that people are just sitting and waiting so I'm struggling with this kind of notion so I started using the notion of navigation so I'm navigating through my life or through a certain life trajectory so I want to hear from you what you think about the advantages but also the disadvantages of this notion of weight waiting and weighthood thank you very much yeah the literature on on weighthood is something that we have engaged have engaged quite a lot with and and as I mentioned in the beginning it's um one of the engagements that has led us also to question some of the normative underpinnings of thinking about waiting because precisely this idea of sort of being stuck and not being able to move into adulthood or to progress in life in a certain sense is also very often underpinned by certain understandings of normative understandings of the life cycle and of the expected sort of ways in which one can move forward in one's life and in society so we've been very sort of trying to unpack those sort of normative underpinnings and where of reproducing them and the other thing that you're applying to is of course also the ways in which ideas about waiting often sort of bring in ideas about passivity and about lack of agency etc etc so we have also tried not to take that for granted not to have this opposition and there have been many attempts in theorizing waiting to think about um waiting as a passive activity or you know as agential in different forms of ways so we have been thinking rather than sort of opposing um passivity activity we try to look at the ways in which um the kinds of ways of acting that are sort of also part of what we call waiting and that can be anything from uh from what Gazanhaj talks about as waiting it out sort of two more active ways of mobilizing creating collectivities of waiting and alternative futures through sort of creating a collective situation of waiting etc when it comes to social navigation I'm very fond of the concept of navigation in particular the way in which Henrik Wieg uses it in his work on social navigation one of the chapters in the weight volume uses social navigation particularly to talk about sort of waiting as a more sort of active um uh waiting in a more active sense and of course the the um uh the the origins of the words of waiting at least in in French we talk about that and that also means paying attention to so there is also very often in conceptualizations of waiting there is also a dimension of anticipation so that waiting is as a as a forum of anticipation or future making or active engagement in a sense and so we're trying to unpack that as well and not sort of as I said only rely on on ideas about waiting as as something happening within this liminal time or within a spaces etc so yeah thank you for that thank you Christine and Malus for the question um we have um the question from Katarzyna hi yeah uh so my name is Katia it's easier I don't know my computer assistant my name is Katia Shvider I'm an assistant professor at the Free University of Amsterdam and I'm a lawyer by training and I work on the issues of statelessness and nationality um and I had a question uh about the conceptual framework of the book I find it a fascinating book definitely learning to read it after your presentation so thank you very much for that um when working on statelessness in the legal sphere I came across uh this issue of a limbo language or the language of putting off of the space of inactive beings uh and especially in the context of statelessness even the word itself speaks of the absence of of of connection to the state so it is very much this passive empty category where it is very difficult to study in a way what happens in the state of statelessness the only thing you can really easily study is how to get out of it and how to not get into it to begin with but the the statelessness itself as a legal phenomenon is almost empty and very much deprived of the agency of people who undergo it so that is a connection of a very strongly saw with uh with what you described and what I found difficult in trying to discuss the agency of stateless persons and what happens to them legally while they are stateless because a lot of legal things happen to them while they are stateless in fact a lot more than people who are nationals often because they get detained they come in from the judge there is really a lot happening um but by using this language of agency where I would speak about people's aspirations or what people do um it almost felt like I was undermining the cause of showing how difficult that situation is so um uh the the the use of of this passive language of in a way the misery or the absence or lack of something is is used uh to uh yeah for emancipatory purposes to show that those people's lives is so very difficult so in a way for me when I was talking about the things actually happening lives continuing uh developments taking place it was almost felt like undermining that uh political argument of it being a very uh desperate uh yeah situation I was wondering whether you came across that and if so how you dealt with it how can you tell the story of active agency that you actually observe uh without uh undermining the story of um yeah of of of difficulty that is subsequently used for emancipatory reasons and another question I had about uh the normalizing of waiting that happens and whether uh whether you saw the the the concept of culpability uh as playing a role in the normalizing of waiting so the fact that people did move or actually used in a way their agency uh to move or to arrive or to stay uh whether this idea of fault and culpability plays a role in normalizing uh this waiting as a phenomenon and that's again something I came across in my research on statelessness that wherever agency is spoken of it is often in a negative sense so the agency very quick quickly becomes fault and culpability and uh yeah so whether you have any thoughts or reflections on that thank you very much thank you very much for um for this very important question um I think you point also to more sort of uh general challenges with doing uh research in this kind of field and uh fully the field was with uh where the um sort of the the political struggles and the real consequences of policies are always part of the picture that we we research and we have to relate very actively as researchers uh to how sort of the knowledge that we produce and and present how that uh is also read against a certain political reality uh so definitely and and I think there have been people pointing to this dilemma that the the the there is a risk uh to both sort of uh overemphasizing uh passivity and victimhood and and sort of reducing uh migrants to subjects without uh capacity for for um for agency but also on the other hand it's problematic in a sense uh when we try to think about the kinds of tactics and strategies and and other uh modes uh and strengths that that migrants also mobilize and how to present that in a in a very sort of uh um politicized field so I don't have any good solutions for that it's something that I think we all struggle with how to deal with that how to balance that I think there are traditions in anthropology for for sort of trying to balance that but of course what's particular in our case is that many of the tactics that that are then used and that we are just um this uh observing in the field would sort of be by states be categorized as illegal right um so for instance acquiring papers through alternative channels or working informally as I was describing running away for to avoid uh deportation and stuff like that so it's very it's it's very difficult how we should deal with these sort of accounts of people's tactics that are mobilized and I have don't have a a good solution uh to offer you but maybe that is something that that we can discuss as for the question of of fault and culpability um in relation to statelessness I haven't thought that much of it or not at least in relation to statelessness but I think that there are ways in which sort of uh uh there is a lot of normativity around sort of the good ways of moving uh and bad ways of moving and uh that there are certain motivations for moving that are more accepted and and acceptable uh in in public discourse than others and there are also ways of of sort of blaming and shaming particular ways of moving and and uh yeah and that um you see it very um I used to work with the topic of of uh migration for sex work and you see it very clearly in the discussions around the topic of trafficking uh where you get this uh uh where you often get this sort of polarized distinction between victims of trafficking uh who are a sort of picture that's as innocent victims etc and then human smuggling which is sort of a quite different description of of people uh you know uh paying and and manner of learning etc and especially for for women engaged in sex work to to claim or to um account your story uh true citizen and uh agential self in a sense is very problematic because you risk falling out very quickly at this category of of the of the clean victim in a sense so those are real uh struggles uh not only how to represent this for us as researchers but also for people who are accounting their stories uh within these systems of of asylum etc yeah thank you thank you Katia and for your question and Christine um I also want to mention that we have actually analysts more here in the audience who's also going to give a talk in the next in three weeks time so it's really nice to have her um now as as as audience um and one of your co-authors um Shahram Kozravi is also giving a talk in this series in the next term so we're very glad about that so we have a couple of really interesting questions one has been put in the chat I don't know whether Nora wants to ask the question of whether she wants me to uh to ask um yeah uh yes I can I can ask it um I just want to wrap on some flags can you hear me you look like an astronaut are you wrapped in flags I have a bit of a cold sorry um uh hi I'm from soas um and um I I just wanted to pick up on something you said in response to the question on hostile environments um you mentioned the spaces that migrants are waiting in and I was wondering um that they are so hostile I was wondering their stance dark discrepancy to this kind of like environment that that makes um migrants wait um and all those procedures are done in place has anybody from like the bureaucratic side or from like I don't know the people who work with migrants um on on processing um ever commented on that or said anything about that like why those spaces are the way they are or any observations around that it would be interesting of course to I don't know to interview people on on that respect I have talked to um for instance uh the the people at the first reception platform I talked about they the employees there tended to be to be rather upset themselves and that's why they went on strike over the the sort of the the uh conditions of waiting for the migrants and they did um they had different systems trying to sort of um have a list that you could describe your name on on the door but sort of very low technology so you wouldn't have to stand all the time because people would have to show up at five o'clock in the morning um to to get in front of the line uh and then um if you have this list on the door at least you could put your name up and be sure that you were among the 10 first and stuff like that so there were sort of some some little efforts to to make um the waiting situation less brutal in a sense but but it would be interesting of course and there has been also campaigns for instance in Marseille where I did my fieldwork uh directed towards the authorities saying that these waiting conditions has to be done something with to register your asylum claim in in Marseille at least for periods to go to the prefecture people would have to come the evening before and actually sleep uh or be in the line the whole night um to be among those a few people that would actually be able to to to post a claim for asylum in a day and there were all sorts of arrangements there of having people keep a spot for you and people selling their spots and and stuff like that but it would be I think it would be really really interesting to do a study of that uh of in itself you know of those kind of the the metro realities and and how they are thought from from sort of and within this uh regime of migration control now I think this is really an important question I'm myself really interested in um what I call I mean as you know Christine the aesthetic of weighthood and uh I think the aesthetic also to do with the infrastructure of weighthood or the effective material kind of side of things I mean I I can think of airports in the Middle East but elsewhere as well where you know the first thing you encounter in landing in Beirut is migrants from Asia waiting in like dozens of them waiting with only three chairs available for these long interminable processing times and of course it was really interested just to add something was really interesting for me to see precisely what I talked about this this kinds of how we're differently positioned in relation to social differentiation in relation to waiting because my presence often affected the waiting situation of those I were accompanying or I was treated differently from others so I could come to a place where there were uh you know 30 um African men standing in the line and someone would come someone would come running with a chair for me um because I was this white professor researcher coming uh you know differently so it's very also very sort of hands hands on um that you see sort of how we're differently positioned within these the um materialities of waiting sorry I interrupted exactly I mean that's exactly my point as opposed to context in which waiting is actively claimed like in for example Palestinian refugees I worked with where waiting for return is even though their life is much more along the lines that Marlowe's has mentioned before negotiating aspiring dreaming acting upon seeking migration seeking rights and resources etc so that it's nothing really to do about it's nothing to do with a passive or static kind of predicament but waithood as a political conceptual and aspirational status is actively claimed so I think that there are lots of really interesting nuances but yeah I think that the issue of infrastructures of waiting and how that sort of the environments are made hostile even from an infrastructural point of view which is something you also mentioned in your talk in relation to the discrepancy between the acceleration of of the asylum process and the prolonged times of the application itself how does that translate into an infrastructural lens I think is really important how people are made to wait where in which you know in which structures and so on I mean can be taken in so many directions so thank you Nora for really bringing us to the infrastructure architecture kind of side of things Nora is our PhD student in the department and she's an architect by training so if you're not tired Christine we have one question also actually we have a couple of questions one which I will use for the end because it deviates a little bit from the topic one from Annalise Morse who I'll read out the questions from the chat Annalise who was professor of anthropology actually emeritus professor at the University of Amsterdam thank you apologies for not being able to open my video or sound this was a very interesting talk I was wondering about what you think about the relation between waiting as a sense of being stuck yet also turning this then in a more active waiting it out obviously referring to Hassan Hajj yes would I think about that um sorry um I somehow oh there I guess I somehow lost well um I think yeah I think Hassan Hajj's thinking about stuckiness and waiting out is very interesting perspectives and and intakes and it is used in a couple of of the chapters in the book quite actively one chapter by by Mariana Carlson for instance which looks at the concept of endurance and sort of situations way it's not either it's not either stuckiness or an active waiting out there but where endurance has facets of of different modalities of waiting so I think that chapter is one thing that you could look at I'm not going to try to um sum up her argument here but but it is very interesting um Annalise I would like to hear more from you on this are you are you not able to turn your microphone on what were you thinking in particular Annalise can you turn your microphone on or are you hiding beyond the technology it seems that her microphone I mean she can hear but cannot engage yeah but we'll hear from Annalise very soon because her talk is on the 25th of November on sales face masks and elective liberal anxieties on another topic but I'm sure that Christine if you come on to that she can answer your question yeah she can tell me more about why she's wondering about this but again I mean it's interesting in relation to to different ways in which people relate to to future right and how the future is involved in in waiting right and and might be very different kinds of of engagements here yes I can hear thanks a lot yeah I find possible possible simultaneously of both interesting yes we can let's leave it there but thank you Annalise I yeah so um I'm receiving questions as always from all kinds of directions on different devices I um no I just wanted to ask something because what I said just earlier on didn't make much sense what I meant with was because I'm looking at the refugee camps infrastructure as a as a site of claiming weighthood and when one asks the question why why after 70 years do we still need camps why can't we just dismantle them and the answer is that they represent sort of from they offer an example of how one can claim weighthood politically through the maintaining of it of an infrastructure of weighthood if you wish like refugee countries anyway sorry this is a taking the discussion away from the point of waiting it out I think we have one last question Christine if you can bear with us we are all very interested in this topic so and this takes us to the current predicament we are all living globally which is the pandemic yes so the question is what impact has the current pandemic which is so characterized by a form of staggeredness what impact has the pandemic on this notion of weight weighthood or waiting do you do you have any reflections to offer on how the literature or the scholarship on waiting can inform the contemporary global predicament which in fact has moved beyond very much beyond the waiting times of migrants and refugees and asylum seekers and I mean weighthood has become not only in rasant has had his term waiting waiting out the crisis but waiting out the the global pandemic is there any reflection that you might want to offer on how this literature helps us to understand the current global waiting so one of the ways in which we started to think about this when we were all under lockdown in March was that many of the concepts that we have been working with in the weight project seem precisely to get a sort of a new relevance in a sense and of course one of the things is relates to the to uncertainty and to future perspectives and we noticed how people who were sort of used to having a temporal horizon of planning all of a sudden had to reckon with this radical uncertainty that is dominant in the already in the lives of very many people but that those who are temporarily privileged in a sense may have been more shielded from in a sense of this radical uncertainty of the future and that that seemed to generalize in a sense and that was manifested of course in very banal things is are we going to postpone or cancel or what are we doing with all those future plans that we have so we thought that was interesting also to look at that and to look at at the notions of of the stuckiness and waiting out also the relationship between more situational firms of waiting and more existential firms of waiting how we could sort of mobilize those kinds of understanding and understanding people's experiences during the pandemic but I think also more importantly as I as I already mentioned that it also the pandemic really really brings out the differentiation in how position how people are positioned in different spatial and temporal hierarchies so as we know and this has been mentioned you know that just the idea of sort of waiting out the pandemic and the crisis and of sort of hiding in one's private home and shielding and and observing these barriers etc is already very sort of a privileged relation to to space and time that is only available for some people so that I think it also really brings out sort of these aspects of differentiation and positionality which is important in in understanding waiting and then some people were discussing whether this sort of generalization of the experience of radical uncertainty and having sort of lives put on hold if that could energize some sort of solidarity or even produce some some new forms of political subjectivities and sharedness sort of shared temporal predicaments that that could give rise to alternative political visions and alternative future visions and there so there has been quite a bit of also hopeful imaginaries generated in relation to to the pandemic of other less environmentally unfriendly futures of futures that would not exclude certain inhabitants from the welfare and health arrangements of societies etc etc so so that is out there as a sort of certain kinds of imaginaries and and yet we are still somehow in the middle of this and so to say anything about the I see that there are already a lot of conferences etc on the post pandemic and what that will be but of course that's part of the the radically uncertain future right now also the the dimension to ask whether this sort of generalizing of certain forms of of waiting and radical uncertainty can generate new sort of political imaginaries that are more inclusive and and less uh and equal thank you christine that was really really really interesting and inspiring you got us really thinking into time at this very late time of the day after people have been like marlos running from one running only virtually from one meeting to the other but uh i really wanted to thank you for a very fascinating paper and we look forward to to read the book and to actually have it in our reading list so if there are no other questions i think we should start wrapping up with maybe announcing next week's talk so next week we will have another really fascinating talk by professor anandi ramamurti from sheffield hallam university and the title of her talk next week is lessons from britain's asian youth movements um so we will be sending out the link and the event bright very soon actually tonight or tomorrow so you'll be able to start registering for that too and as usual i would like to thank kim kim triton for wonderful work in um being you know in making this possible and in organizing the event so brilliantly so thank you kim uh as usual um and uh i guess if if no one has other things to say uh or to ask which we we have already asserted uh there are no more questions i would like to just wish everyone a very good evening and see you next week and thank you again christine thank you so much for having me and for the engagement and great questions from y'all thank you thank you very much there there's some clapping going on bye everyone thank you very much everyone for attending we will send around the recording of today's event via email and in that email we will include the sign up for the next event and we'll also include a schedule of all of the remaining events as well and with the recording you'll get both the recording and also the chat box so again it may be that you kind of read back through that and you think of some more kind of questions and areas to engage with and all of these uh these seminars are on uh different aspects uh within um migration and diaspora but there's definitely some um key kind of uh interconnections and intersections within them so even if you if you haven't been able to raise a question today or a question comes to you later it might be something that's relevant to another one of our sessions as well so do you feel free to engage as much as possible with them and also engage with uh with the Center for Migration and Diaspora in more detail we'll send out also the link to the Facebook page for the center and again it might be kind of worth a good scroll through that if you haven't already done so and there's lots of interesting um interesting information and topics on there that you might want to engage with further brilliant thank you very much everyone and thanks Kim good night night