 My name is Daniela Barbosa. I am the general manager at the Linux Foundation for Blockchain Healthcare and Identity, and I also serve as the executive director for the Hyperledger Foundation. The Hyperledger Foundation since 2016 has been building a consortium of member companies, developers, associations, government agencies who come together to work on enterprise distributed ledger technologies from different DLT frameworks, as well as tools that are addressing modern needs around interoperability and scaling blockchain networks. Today we have two panels and before I start, I wanna thank the Filecoin Foundation staff who have been fantastic over the last few weeks, really getting everything in place and it looks fantastic today. So thank you everyone, especially Erin. I don't know if you hear this morning, but thank you for all your help. Today we have two panels, which I'm very excited to announce. The first panel is gonna be on blockchain as a power for good in the battle against climate change. And then afterwards we're gonna have a panel on why open source for financial services, digital assets and CBDCs. Many of you might have heard about the Linux Foundation. You're probably very familiar with the Linux kernel, which operates many of the supercomputers, even the Mars rover up in Mars, actually running a Linux system. But the Linux Foundation really has hundreds of different projects, open source projects that every single one of your companies rely on to build your products and solutions on top of it. So we have projects like cloud native computing, which is where Kubernetes is. We have obviously Hyperledger that is focused on blockchain, different automotive grade Linux. And today we hope that we can also share with you why open source is so important to building solutions across the board and especially for the topics today. So without further ado, I would like to introduce my panelists and ask them to please come here for the panel around blockchain as a power for good in battle in Andreas. Andreas Kain is the vice president of Cybersecurity and Trust at Siemens. So welcome Andreas. We have Douglas Johnson-Pahanson, who's the CEO of Circular. Circular is an industrial, complex, supply chain traceability company based on AI and blockchain technology. And last but not least, we have Alex Altman, who is Chief Operating Officer for SEAL Storage. So welcome everyone. And thank you for joining us this morning. I know that some of us were here at the party last night and it was lovely, but so thank you for getting up early in the morning. First, maybe we can introduce ourselves. If you can introduce yourself. We'll start with Andreas. What your role is and really what your company is doing specifically to the topic that we're discussing today. Yeah, yeah, would love to. So good morning, hello to all of you. So I am with Siemens. It's a 175 year old tech company. I'm in charge of Cybersecurity and Trust there. And to the topic of today, sort of Siemens operates in verticals that really addresses roughly 63% of the greenhouse gas emissions that account for 63%. So it's a large amount. So it's buildings, it's transportation, it's industrial production. And so it's for us really an imperative to look into ways of decarbonization. And that's, as you probably know, if you're a little bit familiar with the topic typically in four different areas, you can look at your direct emissions energy consumption for instance. You can look into the supply chain as it comes from upstream. That's actually the biggest challenge that links to the technology of blockchain and decentralization. And then the upstream part as well in the supply chain. And finally also carbon capturing and the possibilities to offset four emissions. And here we really see the big problem around actionable data on a product level as well as trustworthiness. And here the term trust already links probably to the technology that connects us here. Actionable means really we cannot continue with average data. So today very often databases are used, LCA databases, life cycle assessment databases with average values. So we need data that really comes directly from the suppliers and not just the direct ones, but the multiple tiers in the supply chain. And trustworthiness is sort of what you need at the very end that you see a label maybe on a product or a component and you really want to trust this value. And here I think it would be naive to think, oh let's put protocol and footprints into a decentralized ledger, a distributed ledger, cook it up with a little bit of zero-knowledge crypto and bomb we have the trusted PCF value at the end. So this would not work first of all because you would not get all the suppliers potentially on such a system. You might not even get a single one because they are very reluctant to give out their sort of sacred data, the bill of materials, the bill of processes. And secondly, you need a source of trust really. You need, the trust has to come from somewhere. And here we really think that we need more technology around verifiable credentials, which are more like a peer-to-peer exchange. We need the serenity in data provisioning and that's where we really push quite a bit and maybe a bit later there will be more chance to talk about this. I think we'll get into that. Doug? Thank you, so a happy overlap in a way. My name is Doug Johnson-Pernskine. I'm founder and chief executive of Circular. We're a five-year-old business and we use Hyperledger Fabric as part of our platform. And what we do is traceability in complex industrial supply chains, a theme that was just talked about by Alex. We are helping, for example, sorry, we are helping car manufacturers, for example, who are building EVs to understand the inherited emissions from the supply chain. Most of us, as consumers, don't necessarily realize that although electric vehicles are supposed to be better for the planet, the vast majority of the emissions from the life of an electric vehicle come from its first manufacturer. Turning rock into battery-grade materials in order to put a battery into an EV is massively energy-intensive. And so understanding the contribution of the upstream participants to that carbon footprint is a real challenge. It's a challenge of trust, it's a challenge of data, and extracting that data. And the same information can also be used to capture other ESG metrics, whether it's water use or human rights abuses. Some of the raw materials in our electric vehicles, for example, come with concerns of child labor like Cobalt. We've been at this for five years. We now work with a whole host of car manufacturers around the world, just being picked by the German government as the technology lead for projects to create a battery passport for Germany to meet the requirements of EU's battery regulations. And branching out into other industries as well, other industrial materials that come with similar concerns around sustainability. So very much looking forward to this debate. Alex? Yeah, so thank you for having me very much on the panel. I'm Alex Altman, the Chief Operating Officer of SEAL Storage Technology. We're a decentralized storage provider built on top of the Filecoin ecosystem. We have a particular focus of commercializing the network and we're targeting a lot of the different Web2 institutions and bringing them over to Web3. We've had a lot of success talking to research institutions, academic institutions, as well as scientific institutions and creating different software platforms for them to be able to properly import their data into the blockchain and actually feel some of those benefits that the blockchain has to offer. You think immutability, chain of custody of data, as well as diversifying risk with eliminating a single point of failure risk. From an environmental impact perspective, we had to analyze what our biggest footprint was gonna be. And it became obvious that it comes from the electricity that we use in a data center. So we've got renewable energy data centers, but we've also taken it one step further and actually extracting the electricity usage directly from the outlets within the data center so that we get a real-time measurement of the actual electrical output on top of our systems. We take that data and we measure it against the emissions from the various geographic locations of the data centers so we could try to put together the most accurate picture of what our emissions really are. But most importantly, it creates this open source and trustless system that people can come in and audit our data and to a certain extent actually creates an open source, auditable process that we can iterate on what other people are looking at. And our hopes is to take what we're developing here and make it an easy change over for other people in our industry and create a standard. Excellent. I think I heard all three of you talk about trust, right? And right now, when you think about blockchain or when blockchain is mentioned, obviously the negative impact of the mining proof of work, blockchains keeps coming up, right? And it's very hard to talk about the positives of blockchains sometimes in regards to implementation. So when you are talking to your customers and even your internal executive teams about how blockchain enables it, can you tell us a little bit, maybe start with you, Doug, on the trust factor, right? Why is it important to be able to go down to the mining at the mining level in regards to the data that you're capturing it? And how do you go about doing that? Yeah, so if you imagine an artisanal mine site in the Congo and a car manufacturer in the United States, there's obviously not only a geographical difference but enormous asymmetry in terms of their capabilities and also many steps to the supply chain between them. So from mine site via refiners in China, battery manufacturers who could be traditionally in China but increasing in Europe and also in the United States to an EV can be seven tiers of a supply chain and enormously different levels of capability. And so in such a genuinely distributed real world environment to try and gather data and to notarize that data so that history can't be rewritten if it subsequently proves to be inconvenient is a near perfect use case, my view, for a distributed ledger. That bit of the argument is easy. I often get asked the question about energy use. Thankfully, that's one of the reasons why we picked a blockchain protocol that didn't have those concerns. And my view was that hyper ledger fabric was the closest to an enterprise standard when we started our business sort of five years ago. And I think probably it still is. There are now of course different ways of achieving consensus on other blockchain protocols but they're not quite as well established in the minds of sometimes quite traditional corporations that are still concerned about how their data is managed. Particularly if they're providing data into an environment where by definition you are sharing a proportion of it to create transparency. Yeah, absolutely. So security and transparency as well. About you, Andreas, I know that you've tackled some of these issues as well. Yeah, no doubt some blockchain technologies are still linked to high energy consumption but we also have to thank the community that really helps tremendously to change technology particularly in the Ethereum context. And of course there's a plethora of technologies that doesn't use proof of work in the first place. For us, we try to avoid, let's say for me, I try to avoid calling things blockchain so much. I call it trust. First of all, it's a much broader term or trust technologies. It's a broader term. Not everything is necessarily blockchain. You can use a different mix of technologies that are typically used in the context of blockchain and assemble them in a different way. So it's a more neutral term that really points out yeah, we've solved the trust issue rather than we want to use blockchain. So that sometimes I think in the past it was too technology driven, I think. Okay, yeah, and we'll dig into that a little bit in a bit and also the fact that you're really onboarding different levels of people with expertise and resources into these consortiums or into these blockchain networks as well. Alex, tell us a little bit about why from a web three perspective, the work that SEAL Storage and Filecoin is doing is really important from a climate perspective. Absolutely, so part of the value that you get from using a distributed ledger and particularly Filecoin as a blockchain is what we've talked about a bunch here which is that trustless factor. So people can look at that and say this data has an absolute value to it. It's not something that somebody's making up and I think the big application here, one of the big applications is with greenwashing. For those of you who don't know what greenwashing is it's when a company submits some form of misleading data, false data or potentially delay different statistics in order to present a better outcome to the public in terms of what their environmental impact is. So I think if you actually have an accurate record of up to date information but what your mission standards are, what your environmental impact standards are, you can create that system where people can actually look into that and see for themselves whether you're truthful in that sense. And I think right now greenwashing is a significant problem and it's not something that necessarily has an easy answer but I think blockchain really does have a very good solution for that and another element that was discussed here from a supply chain perspective is it really helps people in the manufacturing side of things or our client side of things measure their scope to in three emissions which is essentially in a very simplistic way. It's your downstream or broader emissions. So not exactly what you create manufacturing. For example, when we buy different hardware or different other elements that the company needs to function that type of manufacturer can look at our specific data and say when I'm measuring my scope too this is what my boxes or my hardware or my compute is being used and this is the energy associated with that which can create a more accurate system for them to present to their overall stakeholders and from a customer perspective you can actually see well where is my data going what type of impact is that having so even somebody who's doing really good work from a climate perspective they don't necessarily wanna put it in a provider that has a high usage of coal or in an area that has something that's particularly negative for the environment. So it really allows different stakeholders to look and say what am I getting into from an environmental perspective? What is the emission impact that I'm willing to digest by working with this potential vendor or customer? And in the broader ESG landscape not necessarily environmental but I think it's really good for a misinformation discussion. So we were very excited to be selected for the project with the Shoah Foundation and Starling Labs which for those of you who don't know is a project to document 55,000 videos from Holocaust survivors. So we've got the testimonials being uploaded into the Filecoin ecosystem as a way for further generations to look back and say here's all these different facts and stories and prove that for the future. And I also think that applies to misinformation regarding environmental standards as well as other people's historicals when it comes to their previous environmental impacts. Yeah and Jonathan Doton's actually speaking here at the sanctuary this week and he's a great speaker. He was at Hyperledger Global Forum last year with us because they do use some Hyperledger tech as well. Doug maybe talk a little bit about at that on the supply chain from a data perspective. What are you seeing specifically in the automotive industry? In the automotive industry we're seeing a confluence of a number of significant drivers coming together at the right time. So you have a general consumer desire for improvement in sustainability and most of us recognize that electric vehicles could be better for us than diesel and petrol. Good regulators are catching on. So whether it is EU battery regulations, the German supply chain law, modern slavery legislation around the world, the SEC's proposed ESG reporting standards that they're talking about. Even accounting bodies are starting to define how to audit ESG claims and the US's concerns around critical mineral resource security. All these things create a sort of regulatory push that's a very, very clear signal to industry. So that's where innovation really starts to take off in my view. You have a combination of innovators, a demand from industrial OEMs like car manufacturers to understand what it is that they are responsible for. So obviously clearly not just their own operations but actually everything they buy comes from somewhere. And a recognition that the manufacturer is something that's supposed to be better for the planet like an electric vehicle should not necessarily damage either people or planet in its construction, which is exactly what we do today. Hence the need to understand the deeper tiers of the supply chain. That's partly from the perspective of responsible sourcing, I mentioned child labor earlier, but also inherited scope three emissions. So that means the emissions of each of the participants along the supply chain in manufacturing a battery or steel or aluminium or sourcing rubber, for example, for tires. Now, when you understand the need for that, the question is where do you find the data? This data, although it has existed forever, has never been collected and certainly not aggregated through a supply chain. So it starts with the creation of a reliable chain of custody. The pressure flows from the OEM down through the supply chain to the upstream producers, but the data comes from the participants in the supply chain. And what we're doing is creating a digital twin for a commodity at its source that could be a 200 ton parcel of nickel from a mine site in Western Australia or it could be a 30 kilo sack of cobalt from the Congo. And then following that digital thread from there through the supply chain. And of course, the complexity is that a bag of rock is nothing like a car. It's not like tracking a strawberry, which is a strawberry in the field and also a strawberry when it gets to your plate. And so you have to be able to connect the input ingredients to an industrial process, to the output product multiple times through the supply chain. I often liken this to a cake recipe. You know, so much flour, so many eggs, so much sugar, goes through a defined mixing process, spends an hour in the oven and comes out as a cake. If you have 20 cakes, you've clearly added flour from somewhere else. And only a TV chef can make a cake in two minutes. And so you take that basic principle of code the chemistry and apply it multiple times through the supply chain. Once you move into the manufacturer of components and sub-assemblies, obviously you're dealing more with the, you know, how physical things are combined to create a product. We did this the first time with Volvo cars in 2018 to demonstrate it was possible to follow cobalt, as it happens, all the way through the supply chain, from mine to car. And we've expanded that now into all battery materials with them and our manufacturers. And I mentioned the German battery pass project beforehand. The primary supply of raw material is only the first part of the problem. The same raw materials at the end of their first life, you know, need to enter, not just recycling, but the potential for second and third life uses, like batteries and energy storage systems. So when we're talking about something like a product passport, we're interested not only in the primary supply, the first manufacturer of something, but also the circular economy that can potentially follow. And circular economy business models cannot be created without data, without data about where is your asset? What is its state of health? Potentially who's financing it? You know, can it be reused or should it be recycled? And something certainly EU regulators contemplating, a carbon balance sheet. How much of the carbon that was invested in this thing to make it the first place has been repaid in its first life? And should we therefore use taxation as a way of driving, you know, a second life use rather than an immediate recycling, which of course is an investment of more energy in it? So, sorry, that's quite a long explanation, but I hope you can solve it. No, I mean it's an excellent one because it's not simple, right? It's not simple. It's not a simple manufacturer to manufacture, you know, manufacturer to retail or relationship. And the circular economy, right, the aspect of where are these minerals and these materials would be reused is very important to track and go ahead. To that point, I mean the WEF published at the start of 2020 a report called the supply chain opportunity. Eight global supply chains account for 50% of all global carbon emissions. And all of those carbon emissions, 80% is inherited by the manufacturers of goods that we purchase from their supply chain. So, you know, this is complicated. We've done the easy stuff. You know, there's only so many beetroot burgers that we as consumers can eat before we start tacking the hard things. And the hard things need the sort of data we're all trying to develop. Right. And I do think, you know, we know that regulation does push a lot of this innovation from a technology perspective forward, especially with blockchain distributed ledger technology. If it's in supply chain, for example, in the United States, a lot of the food and drug administration policy now is, you know, we'll have very specific food traceability aspects of it, pharmaceutical supply chain, insurance. There's a lot of use cases that are coming up when you have to meet those regulators. So before we go to Andreas, from a regulatory perspective, when you talk to, you know, the companies that are dealing with the regulators, do they understand why blockchain is one of the answers here? Yes, is the short answer. The slightly longer answer is a recognition that even if you don't understand the full range of potential benefits of a distributed ledger, the idea that you can notarize transactions and they can't be changed, so immutability is something everybody can understand the benefit of. And the idea that a platform like this is intended to be decentralized because there's no, making this up now, United Nations Authority on Responsible Sourcing, there's no one who could host a platform on behalf of, you know, the whole auto industry. And I'm not sure that that would be considered, you know, sensible anyway from an antitrust perspective, particularly the amount of data that's being collected. So I think there's a recognition that decentralization is important. You know, one of the real barriers to adoption, in my view, is partly some inertia. In the early stages of trying to grapple with this, and we are in the early stages of this, many different attempts at solutions flourish at the same time, and there's a need for consolidation, as well as greater interoperability. Few solutions have reached a level of maturity where they can interoperate with others. And so trust at the moment is in the adopter level, not in the technology level. Yeah, so working in peril. But Alex, the immutability, so one of the things I always explain why blockchain, you know, and especially on the identity front, is important is, you know, I think about the trust, right? So if I was queen in an ancient Swiss, you know, Canton, I would, you know, write a letter and I would have one of my, you know, secretaries put wax on it and it would be immutable, right? And my page, my trusty page would deliver it to the next person and they would know this was a letter from Daniela because it has her seal in wax. Can you talk a little bit about, when you, you know, when seal storage and Filecoin, when it comes to that trust level, you know, technically or, you know, how is that approached? Yeah, so when we actually get the data, depending on where the source comes from, you get that initial element of, you know, here's that, you know, I mentioned a few times here, that chain of custody of data. So when the data comes out of the network here, you've got your starting point and then it moves along and you say, okay, did someone access it here? Was it altered here? How is it altered here? And if you go access it again, you have this kind of initial source of trust, which is very important when you're dealing with multinational companies or multinational resources or whatever institution, people can access the same source of data instead of a centralized source where you have somebody can upload, take the data out, they can chain something and they can re-upload it and you don't know exactly what happened and you have to just trust that whoever had it before did something that was correct and you can't necessarily go back and access that. We're on the decentralized system, you say, well, there's multiple copies in multiple locations and you can say, here was an access copy and you can't necessarily build off of something that you can't trust the initial answers on and that's really where this trustless, kind of immutable system is significantly better in the overall tracking of this, as well from a reporting perspective and going back to the difficulties of tracking and displaying your scope to and scope through emissions for a lot of the different reasons that was discussed on this panel, the difficulty of understanding where certain minerals came from or where that supply chain potentially broke down in terms of the emissions and the overall impact. So being able to access those pieces and then seeing where those pieces were altered is extremely important. Andreas, you mentioned verifiable credentials before, so which I think is an important element and I think a lot of people still don't understand digital identity specifically of items where we might kind of understand self-sovereign identity and digital identity of human beings but tell us a little bit about the Siemens approach to using verifiable credentials and why it's important in an ecosystem like the ones that you're building out. Yeah, so coming back to the point that I made earlier that I don't think if we just have a distributed ledger and we put information into it, it doesn't necessarily create truth or trustworthiness unless you have somewhere an agreed common truth or you have some trusted parties that when they put something in, everybody would say, yeah, I believe what is in there. And in our sort of context when we talk with our customers and looked at our own kind of production environment, how the suppliers are used, what are the relationships, it turned out it is important to maintain this peer-to-peer relationship between a supplier and a manufacturer or a manufacturer and the next customer. There is no interest in putting data too much into like a shared distributed ledger. So the idea of having a verifiable credential which is basically a piece of information that is signed in a very simple way by somebody like an issuer, in our case, the certifier of a manufacturer that would have insight into the production environment and could say, yeah, the way this product is produced involves so and so much CO2. And by the way, I also verified the information that I received from the upstream supplier. So all the components which make up like 80% of the protocol and footprint. So the certifiers play a really important role here as the one that issue credentials. And the credential is then given to the manufacturer which could be a supplier to the next step. And they would be in the power then to present parts of this credential that are given by the certifier. So I have these three clearly distinct roles, the issuer, the holder and then the verifier. And these clear roles can be sort of chained up in the supply chain. And the blockchain comes in really only in the form that the public keys and the revocation list, the schemas have to be known and not stored centrally somewhere. So it's a, in a way, a very different approach than saying we need a shared distributed ledger. All the PCFs must be in there so everybody can look them up. Because this will scare away many of the parties that we need to join in here. So that's sort of why we're so strongly behind the verifier credentials and particularly the implementations from the hyper ledger foundation like in the areas and so on. And then we also extend the open source stack in order to address the specific industrial use cases. So these stacks are thought initially maybe for people like identities, self sovereign identities or we apply them to things and companies. So it's a different application but it works perfectly in this context as well. And what about scale, right? I mean, if you're thinking about the number of things both of you and you in pieces, from a scalability perspective, how are you addressing, or does the blockchain work from a scale perspective? It does, in this case it does because scale is very much about the peer-to-peer exchange. I said that we maintain basically this basic relationship. I'm a manufacturer of my clients or my suppliers and they exchange proofs and sort of cryptographic proofs and verifiable credentials. So we maintain this and it's a peer-to-peer. The underlying blockchain level is for the public keys that must be looked up for verification. The schemas that are only issued once in a while so the schemas never change really. Maybe once a while a certifier extends a schema but it anyway has to be based on common understanding how the greenhouse gas protocol or the ISO standards or maybe extensions on top of this would define the attributes in the verifiable credentials. So it's scale I don't see really as an issue. No, I just guess. I think the work that Siemens and in general the German community is doing around verifiable credentials is really moving the market quite a bit just from a digital identity perspective and then the work that Siemens and others are doing through ID Union, for example, which is a great consortium that is really advancing a lot of these technologies. And once again, working with the governments and the regulators to do it in peril and process as well. Doug, on the scale question, I know you got something to say there. Yes, and actually we hash blocks of data to the blockchain with the vast majority and we've got hundreds of millions of records coming in from the supply chain that would just create indigestion. So we're using traditional databases, Oracle and graph databases, to store a lot of the heavy data and then hashing packets that data to the blockchain and a similar approach really to, you know, gaining the benefit of the distributed ledger without the disadvantages of, you know, trying to store vast quantities of information in the distributed ledger itself. Right, so yeah, so it's a matter. So CL works, verifier credentials, I'm gonna do a quick example just so that the audience understands because I think it's a new concept for a lot of people, right? So that, like I'm the holder, right? I know all the information about me because I'm the holder. You're the verifier, so you can verify that you are, that the data is correct and you're the issuer, right? And I only have to show Andreas who's my customer or my supply chain partner the pieces that I want, right? So I know everything about me. You know, you can say that piece of data is true in value, right? You can verify it, right? You verify it and tell us a little bit about the complexity of it. This is not new. Certifiers have existed for a long time. SGS, UL, Bureau of Erratas, they certify claims now that this product is safe or that this plant is carbon neutral and they might issue you a certificate. Now, that certificate in the past would have been a piece of paper. It's the same concept done slightly differently and we all know that technology can unlock either efficiencies, which is what we just described, or new ways to addressing problems. So in the example that we've been talking about here, this is not a new way to do business. It's just a new way to underpin it with a more efficient approach. And I feel it addresses the sort of wish of many people to have the data serenity or the being in control of my own data. So going in the web three direction, which is also like one of the principles, I believe, where the holder can decide when and what to share with somebody. And that's really the key. It's not somewhere in a platform where a company that runs the platform and has a centralized business model here would decide on based on a business model who to share data or information with. So privacy, right? Privacy preserving methods of doing that as well. Commercial confidentiality is important in supply chains. Absolutely. Transparency, total transparency is not the same as, for example, traceability. Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I think that's exactly correct, right? When you're able to actually put data onto the blockchain, like a lot of different elements of what you have as a compute-focused blockchain. Hyperledger is fantastic for tracking various elements. But one of the big problems that Filecoin solves is actually you need to store that data in a blockchain sense. And that's where the verification actually comes in. So talking about how this all scales is that's the way to actually take in huge quantities of data and say this is now a blockchain asset as opposed to something where it says, okay, I can now verify something happened, but you're still dealing with a centralized system like an Oracle. So this is kind of the missing piece there that can finish the puzzle. And doing it in climate for ways as well. I could speak for hours with all three of you, I'm sure, but we need to wrap up. I wanna thank you, Andrea, Stug, and Alex for joining me today for doing the good work. I mean, all of us who want a future. Climate is certainly a big interest point of us. At the Hyperledger Foundation, we have a climate special interest group that is doing a lot of interesting work. They're actually building out code for different projects that are working on different events. So I do wanna invite everybody to join our Climate Action Special Interest Group at the Hyperledger Foundation. The speakers will be here afterwards. So if you have any questions, please approach them. And we're happy to have any conversations with you. So thank you once again. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.