 Welcome to another show of Celebrate Life. My name is Gary DeCarlas, and I'm your host for the day. The purpose of this show is to really capture people's lives and life stories, to celebrate their life. Rather than wait till the day comes when we're reading their obituary and wish that we had met them when they were alive. Well, this is your chance to meet them when they're very much alive and vibrant. My belief is everyone has a story to tell, literally everyone. And so our purpose is to just bring those stories forward so that we can all appreciate and get to know some very wonderful people. If you're interested in being a guest on this show or if you have a question for our guests, you can email me at celebratelife0747 at gmail.com and I will forward your question to the guest. And I'll also put you on a list to be interviewed at some point down the road. Well, today I'm honored to have as our guest, Ali Jing. Ali, good to have you here today. Thank you so much for having me, Gary. This is an interesting program. Thank you. Well, you're more than welcome. So Ali, take us back to where it all started. Where that life started, and a little bit about your early life and some of your hopes and dreams and story. Wonderful. All right, thank you. So where it all started is basically when my father and my mother met very long time ago and I heard a lot of stories that my mom used to be a very beautiful woman. Many people loved him, right? But my father was a lucky one who was able to marry him. And my father basically traveled a lot. He studied in Russia, you know, long time ago in the 70s, yep. And then when he came back in Mauritania, you know, when he was also very young and he got married to my wife, my mother and then I was the first born as their first born child, right? I have five brothers and sisters, three sisters and one brother. They are all now grown up and none of them basically live. We've never been to a house together, but I'll tell you more. Okay. Yep. So they were both born in Mauritania, my parents. My mother is from Bogey and my dad from Rosso, right? Rosso Mauritania. But also I grew up in Senegal, you know, and I know Senegal more than Mauritania, you know? Yeah. But, you know, my father also lived in Senegal a lot. But during the colonization, my grandfather also used to travel a lot. France, he's in Africa, he's in Senegal, he's in Mauritania. So my family is all over the place between those two countries, right? Some of my father's brothers were born in Senegal, some in Mauritania, and my siblings as well. We are all over the place. So when I was born as a first child, you know, and we were very, very, a very rich family, let's say that. Very, very, you know, we had all the basic needs. And I remember as a kid, you know, we used to have, in the neighborhood, we only used to have like television, for example. People in the neighborhood used to come to our home to watch TV and we also have DVD, DVD back then. In the 80s, I remember that very well. And, but in one point, you know, my mother got sick, you know, very sick. And that's sick also for a very, very long time. And I don't even have a lot of memories about my mother, you know, but, and in one point, she was, she lived with her mother herself because to take good care of her as well. Yeah. And then, you know, my sisters and I and brother, we were split among extended families to be raised because we were young and our mother was not feeling well. You know, and then when she passed, basically my sisters, we also, they stayed right where they were. For example, some of them in Mauritania, some of them in Senegal, but me, I was in Senegal with my grandfather, you know, the father of my father. She is the one who raised me and I was raised basically by the community, let's say that. And that really helped me to be resilient, to understand, you know, the quality of life now. And my father in one point in 1993, when I was in middle school, he immigrated to France. You know, that's where he still reside right there. You know, and, you know, throughout life, also around the night, my father, when he immigrated basically, I was alone. I felt a lot of, you know, I felt, I felt alone. I was raised by the community, my grandfather with snow getting, getting older and sick. And, you know, yeah, that's, that's how my, my childhood went, but in one point we were very wealthy and have everything, have a car, have DVD, the decent house, you know, and then in one point everything shifted, you know, and then it all become like a survival mode, let's say. And yes. So, yeah, so first of all, I'm sorry of your mom's passing at a young age. How old were you when she passed away? I was like nine, you know. What did your father and grandfather do for work, Ali? Yeah. So my grandfather was in the army, you know, and in the 60s until 1957, both Senegal and Mauritania were like colonized by French. You know, it was one, one, one, one country. It's in 1957 that they split the two countries, right? And my grandfather basically, you know, stayed in Senegal to serve there. He was a captain in the, in the army. It's not the army, but it's not even the police, but the called the gendarmerie, you know. Yeah. He was lieutenant. He retired and then they called him back and, you know, couple months after he was made like a captain and then he retired for forever. So my father was an agricultural engineer, you know. Yep. And he studied in Russia and he held like great, you know, leadership jobs in Senegal, for example. And until 1993, he did a voluntary departure and he, you know, went to Europe. And that's where he still reside. He retired now to as well. But my mother was just a stay-at-home mom. That's as much as I remember he was a stay-at-home mom. Five children. He got a lot of, you know, just to raise. Yes. Yes. Are your sisters and brother still in Senegal? Yeah. Yeah. So one of them is in Mauritania. Actually, she had a baby just yesterday. A second baby. Yep. A baby girl. Yep. In Mauritania. My brother, the youngest brother, the youngest is in, in Belgium. That's where he lives now. He's married there. He has a child as well. My sister is in, that came after me is in Columbus, Ohio. Like, yeah. Yeah. So basically right now I have one sister in Senegal. Right. One sister in Mauritania. One brother in Belgium. And one other sister in Columbus, Ohio. Right. I heard this. United Nations. Yes. You know, what's the funny is also. Even my brothers and sisters, we do not remember all of us being in one. And the one roof. Together. Together. Wow. Who we are. We never, because some of them was with my mom. We were just all over the place. Do you think that, is that a goal to have that day come when you can all celebrate together? Absolutely. Absolutely. It will be just needing of coordination between my brother in Belgium and my sister here to go back and maybe one of the sisters in Senegal or Mauritania. Yeah. Yeah. That would be a wonderful day. It will be. And also maybe even with our children too. So we all get that. Exactly. Ali being the oldest sibling. Did that have. What culturally, what did that mean? Oh yeah. Thank you. And that's a great question. Yeah. Contrarily, because if you are the oldest in the family. So. You are, you should be the most responsible person. Because you have to wear the hat of mother, the hat of father. Basically. And any important decision about a family, you are the one who have to like the last word. Right. And you are also expected to take good care of your parents. So our mother passed, but our father now is old and sick. Right. So it is my responsibility basically to make sure that he is well cared for. And reason why, you know, until recently I went back to France to, to see him. And I'm actually planning another trip to go see him. And you are respected and, you know, your brothers and sisters, your younger brothers and sisters should also respect you. And also follow your guidance. So basically you are the head of the family. That's how culturally it is. For example, if they have issues with their marriages, you know, they are, you are the one who, you know, need to play the mediation. How to solve the issue, you know, and a lot of expectations for an oldest person. You know, yeah. But at the same time, you know, it's important to be rewarding if your brothers and sisters basically respect you. And yeah, it's an honor. Yeah. So when did you come to this country? Yeah. So yes, another story, an interesting story. My wife and I met in my home country, Mauritania, you know, and she was a Peace Corps volunteer in 2000. Right. And back then I believe that I was in high school. Right. And she was teaching in the middle school, you know, as a teacher in the middle school of the Lisa of Rosa. That's how we met. And we met because of just my leadership, you know, in the community, basically, you know, I created an English club and used to invite her to come and tell us a little bit about the United States. And she was also a group of Peace Corps volunteers from the United States, from the US in Rosa. And I worked with them in a lot of activities that could generate revenue for young people in, in, in my city. Right. And basically that's how I met my wife and we became friends for a very long time. And then we fell in love. And then 911 came, right? 911. Yeah, they asked all the Peace Corps volunteers to go back for safety issues because Mauritania is a, is a Muslim country. Yeah. You know, yes, we have Arabic people like the bear bear people who look like Arabic. We also have black people, you know, but, you know, it's a country of 100% Muslim people. But 911, it was like associated with, you know, Muslim issues in maybe Afghanistan and stuff. So for safety reason, they asked them to go back. Right. So when she went back in the US to go to school, right, I continued my, you know, study and then went to the capital of Mauritania for at the University of Mauritania, where I was studying, let's say, public international law. Right. Yes. And then, you know, upon my studies in 2007, in 2005, she came back, my wife came back, right? And when she came back, basically we decided to get married. So we got married, she came back to the US. I stayed there to continue my study until 2007. That's when I came here in the United States. And when I came in 2007, my wife's was working for an organization called Detention Watch Network. It was just immigration, immigrants that are in jail, basically for paperwork purposes. And then we lived in Washington DC. That's where I landed, right? I remember January 2007, right? And there, you know, was, I waited a little bit to get my papers to be able to work and also to go to school, you know, and then, you know, was going to a school called Carlos Rosario to learn about English, to also learn about computer science and things like that. And then when we had a baby in 2008, February 2008, that's when she decided to be closer to her family, my wife's family. They are from the Anderondacks, like right here, two hours away from New York. Yeah, yeah. And, yeah, from there, you know, my wife, because we have a baby, we are in DC, no close family. So, and she didn't want to also live in upset New York, but she wanted to live like close to, you know, Burlington, Vermont, because she studied here at Middlebury College and then at SIT. And she loved the nature and we decided to come here in Vermont, so it's close to her family. That's how I ended up in the city of Burlington. And since then we've been living here since 2008. We're lucky to have you and your family. Yeah, yeah, it's a great place. And to tell you the truth, I did not like Burlington when I just got here. Is that right? I did not like it, but I visited before, before coming here, you know, and they showed me only Church Street. It was so beautiful, right? Like, wow, I want to live here, you know, but when we moved and lived on Pine Street, like basically, I mean, and started with my bike, walking around the city, running around. I realized that basically, wow, the city is so like, felt like very rural to me, you know, compared to Washington DC, even where I grew up, yes, was even more modern, there was no that. But it quickly realized that, you know, the way of life here is completely different because here people care more about the environment, the purity of the air and recycling and nature and mountains and lakes. And, you know, and what I noticed though, first time was just here, you can see the sky compared to Washington DC. Yes. And also the friendliness of the people, especially when it's sunny, people were like really friendly and nice when it's sunny, but winter, people were not like that, you know, interest. I would think winter and you could, the nice thing is I know you work with many new Americans right now that come from Africa, different countries there. The winters must be just a dramatic change from their life beforehand and your life beforehand. Yes, yes, yes, you know, it's, it's a very, very, very new, very different to, at the same time, you know. And from my perspective, you know, in the beginning, I struggle because it doesn't matter how many gloves you have, how many hats you always feel very cold, right? And in the beginning, no car here in this, you know, I was working in the schools, but at the same time, sometimes I work, I walk to work or, you know, right. But yeah, it's a, it's a very different culture. It's a very different atmosphere when winter hits, but now over time we get used to it. And, you know, now I feel like I am, I am, I'm a Vermonter, I love the winter, I don't do winter sports, but at the same time I love it, I love it here. Now I'm going to tell you this, you know, as part of my work, I used to travel a lot, you know, to go to conferences, do presentation about family engagement and stuff, you know, I went to very different, different cities and state in the, in the nation. But for some reason, I can no longer stay somewhere for more than three days anymore. Because I feel that I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, there is no quality of life elsewhere, rather than the city of Wellington, the state of Vermont. Yeah. Well, I understand that love affair. I have the same one. It's a wonderful city and a wonderful state. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. Ali, you're a lawyer by trade then. Yes, yes, by trading. Yes. I'm a lawyer but never thought of because also I mean what I wanted to do for for for my study was to do sociology the science of the society and how people think and group of people exactly that's what that has always been my interest right what brought me to law is just I had two options because my baccalaureate my high school diploma was about in in literature French literature right but I have those two option English or or law because you know socialism was not offered in my home country back then and you know I decided to go to law and basically the first two years it's general law and then after the first two years you do private law or you do public international options also were very very limited you know but I had to just do it but at the same time you know as a college student I was an amazing perfect college student because at the same time I was working and teaching here and there but I just do the basic to pass basically yes and here I am and doing social work and which I feel like it's my vocation it's my calling yeah yeah now having been a city counselor myself for a long time ago yeah what was what was that moment or when you said I want to run for office in Burlington what was that like for you and and what it's been like as a city counselor now yeah um and you know sometimes life has its own um plan for you yep you just have to follow it it has never crossed my mind that I will become that I will study law it has never crossed my mind that I will one day you know become an elected official you know but all I wanted is to just serve the people serve the community right and I'm going to explain how I became a city counselor so working here in the schools I was also when I became a member I'm a record basically right and my service to JJ Flynn elementary school um as a record member basically you you you gain a lot of trainings you know you understand also the system better right about how things function here in the city and in the state of the month and then you meet also a lot of American member and you do service together right and through that service um it's when I got connected to the community and also you know been coming to summits and that's when I started to you know get requests from local organization to serve as board members in their you know board of directors and serve at CVO and rights and democracy you know rights and democracy yes and rights and democracy actually I will I was involved in the conception of that organization since the beginning before even it was created wow why do we need such an organization that's about civic engagement about you know politics you know movement politics you know advocacy etc and until we created that organization I became a board member and we were providing a lot of trainings about you know people who are interested in public office right and I used to attend to those never crossed my mind that I will one day be interested in running for something um but one day you know a board seat opened right here in word 7 where I live right here because some ideas of city council have to move on and you know a couple of people such as Shay Tatum you know Isaac you know those people contacted me and brought me to a coffee shop and gave me a lot of expressors to just say we're gonna ask you something drink a lot of expressors and then we have an offer for you like okay so it was April they no February vacation I remember my family was not here they were in North Carolina and they like okay there is this board this city council seat open and it's right where you live and we feel like you have the profile you have the charisma you have the love of the community and we think that you need to basically put your name forward to run for office this is a big uh ask but you know I will need to think about this you know just talk to my family and see and um you know a couple weeks after I reach far back you know just let them know let's try explain to me how it works and like okay you just be a candidate start to think about what do you want to achieve what are the issues important to you right and the rest you build a team behind you to help you with advertising with raising money to help you with a platform website and all of it and that's how things started in in June 27 2017 right about um you know that's when I was elected in a special election uh with 62 percent of the votes and against great people so since then I mean in 2008 I run again as for my full term you know and again one and basically once you get once you are in and you understand the process you understand how if government is definitely working for the people what is missing um and the perspective that I was bringing as a new american someone who was there born and raised here someone with accent um and also the perspective of the people that I you know that have the same profile as me like refugees and immigrants that I worked with so they needed a voice the voice um of the voiceless basically so and you know since then and it's just a learning journey and I now have the the love of of public service and that capacity and uh yeah it's not easy and at the same time it is rewarding very rewarding yes I would agree on both of those counts it's not easy most people don't understand the amount of time it takes to do the job those those uh midnight meetings Ali oh my god yes yes yes yes I'm glad yeah you you you are a city you know I understand you know yeah nice so I'm going to change directions a little bit here what does family mean to you um yes so from my perspective family is basically um it's a it's a base of somebody's um somebody's life and health and well-being right you know it's it's it's a it's a place of comfort it's the place of um you know material support um it's a place of just you know seeing it seeing it changing it you know get bigger or sometimes smaller um it's basically home it's like the it's like the base of a human being each person should have a family or loved ones basically it's uh it's uh that's that's what it means to me I mean without the family and a person is not is not a whole yeah right and so for some people who do not have like the typical family father mother or two father or two mothers and children and grandfathers you know they should also have like people that they call family people that they can count on it doesn't matter what you know successes or challenges in life I mean I feel like those are the first responders the first support system that a person could have in order to feel that they they they they whole and they they are alive basically yeah someone that that sense of um unconditional love that exactly exactly exactly and it doesn't matter how it is and a family member I mean you just love them you have you know it doesn't matter what type of person they are you know they just part of you you cannot change or yeah now when you're when you are with your grandfather um what was that like for it was you know you were the oldest son and here you are with your father's father yeah which probably meant a lot for your father to have you with his father yes yes what did that yeah um yes it meant that um you get wiser if you are raised by someone with a lot of knowledge and expertise in life right um you know but he has a military background basically he was also a little bit rough and tough and have a lot of expectation right and one of his expectation was all about the religion and also the respect to elderlies and people who are just older right then here so my grandfather also had like a unique position in the community you know because of his uh you know leadership that he exists as a military person he also like was like seen as like the court in the neighborhood for example if my animals ate your plants for example there is conflict between residents and neighbors they always come to him right and under the tree he will sit down people will sit down and I'll always sit next to him to here to see him deliberate basically you know giving them the gavel to speak giving them discover okay we think you know people never bring stuff to the legal department of the of the of the city or the state you know they always come to him you know about those those issues you know and I think like that helped me a lot to to understand you know conflict resolution like also respect of our family that people have in the in the community as well you know but also as he as he was you know getting older also he became very sick and to tell you the truth there has been time when I did not go to school for example but no one also was there to to to remind me okay go to school what are you doing so basically I grow up just by myself because after he was a bank attention about you know but at the same time if I am who I am today most of the time I cannot say it's my father but it's mostly my grandfather you know and the family you know his house my grandfather's house I was not only the only child too I had a lot of cousins my father's because you know we all live in under his roof a very respected and admired you know person and he he basically provided a lot a lot a lot a lot for me that I cannot even count when your father and mother was not there yeah right yeah a unique a unique a unique slice of life that you live there what a what a treasured experience yeah yeah yeah and you know I think all of all of that experience also helped me to be like a very resilient person you know and also at a very young age I understood that I you know needed to to to succeed you know and it's not my father or my grandmother that would give it to me but it's just me just understanding basically the life of how how things can be about and especially for someone who had it all in the beginning and they lost it all so I know what lived experiences about what being you know wealthy for a lot of a better word and also lived experience of someone who you know is poor for example you know I remember um you know growing up for example there was time where you know breakfast was not part of my my daily routine you know I just wake up and sometimes just go to school like that no problem because I didn't have it um but lunch yes I would have lunch dinner most of the time no one eat one one one meal a day right basically and when you became also a teenager I started to work when vacation during vacation to do some mercenaries people who you know I started at a very very early age to just try to survive and you know medical medical attention sometime when I needed it it was not there or closing to go to school or you know school supplies all of it I had at a very young age to to to to fight for it to fight for everything wow that's amazing yeah oh good oh good and you know good story sometime that I tell to my children that you know you have it all and you guys have you know a roof a father a mother with you but growing up I did not have it so we expect you now to do excellent to do well yeah tell me about your children yeah so two daughters and both of them um you know the oldest is 14 now born in 2008 and the youngest is eight and both of them girls beautiful you know very respectful and I worked very hard my wife and I to teach them about my culture as well and from time to time we go back you know to Africa so they can know where I'm from you know and you know they also doing extremely well in school for example the oldest is already reading at a like let's say college level wow yeah they love math and at a very early age too we decided as a family to not even have a television in our home for example right so they can focus on just moving books and you know seeing that stuff online but now as a group and still we still do not have a cable in our home we just rely on CCTV channel 17 and you know social media to read about what's happening seven days vt digger and cnn apps cnn but I feel like yeah my kids also very active people very active children very respectful and the oldest was named after my mother so right and the youngest was named after my you know my superheroes uh mother mom I said to mom I said to some yep and actually is today is the anniversary of um the death of mom I said to mom I said to is like my hero's mother an amazing wonderful woman I'll send you her picture and today is actually her anniversary yeah she's so tell me more about superheroes and what that what that means for you this is a real person yes yeah yeah so the basically you know when you when you are with no mother no father and basically you're being raised by the community you know you could at least maybe take the wrong term yep and become something really very negative and end up in you know this is judicial system and all of it right yeah but in one point in my life my father's brother abdrahman he was not living with us at that time as a child I remember him coming one day and talking to us about someone named al haji modungam modungam right a spiritual person um that I have never met and he reside in senegal right and person who used to be also very rich but a person who love the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wa sallam pay peace upon him right all of the life of Muhammad god is a love of the prophet Muhammad he that's what he preaches that's what he asked the people to pay attention to Allah god yeah and also for people to remember that living a life is not only about you know uh breathing right eating drinking sleeping waking up being happy being unhappy but also there is what we call faith is in each and every single one of us and for most of us that faith is dead because people pay attention to you know all the things materialistic things right and most of the time they forget about their faith what's inside and it should be at the same importance as eating and drinking it it has to also be nurtured right and the way to nurture it is to understand you know the Quran like the Quran and also to understand the teaching of the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wa sallam right so al haji modungam sallam I never met him like right here in person I never never met him but um he's teaching basically through my father's brother right definitely started to and I was teenager back then like a teen like in 1990 let's say 74 1995 1996 that's when I started to basically pay attention and you know started to pay attention also to my faith to the religion of Islam and also to you know be a model to to stay to do what's good and be what's bad you know and that definitely changed my life around you know gave me like purpose of service a purpose of of taking care of others not only myself right and that's how everything started you know from working with the Peace Corps volunteers to coming to the US to serving my community becoming the city council all of it came to al haji modungam sallam you know and um yeah and when I had a daughter I named my second daughter after uh the mother of al haji modungam okay that's an amazing story yeah it sounds like you're opening your faith deepened you yeah to be have a purpose in life and knowing what that meant exactly exactly and if it was not this teaching of al haji modungam I will have maybe all the priorities you know and in one point basically as a teenager you know my group of friends we were talking about hey one of us need to find a girl and have a baby for example we don't we're not even thinking because all the kids in the neighborhood in our age was having like children here and there um but we definitely uh you know wow yeah that definitely may get me like the the right turn and find purpose and that that's your uncle that open you up to that exactly yeah yes wow and here being here um is there a mosque that you're active in yes yes there is one um actually here in shittendon county we have two mosques the somalian people have their own mosque in minoski and also the islamic society have a mosque in south burlington right um but i mean i do not go to the mosques a lot because of maybe distance and also here you have requirements such as your job requirements that Muslims we have to pray five times a day right right but fridays most of the time around one or two p.m sometimes i go to the mosque in south burlington right but in my family basically we do our prayers here right we just resume the months of ramadan 30 days of fasting sunset to sundown and at the end of the ramadan we did also a celebration right and we all went to the mosque and we prayed and also you know in the evening we we and all the people from west africa we came together and had a good meal we celebrated together as well yes and you know or everything that i know about the quran i also try to teach it to my children you know just me and um yeah so wow that's pretty lovely what a good life a good man yeah we we're trying but not as interesting as your life and you know all of it and i'm thinking of like uh wisdom if you had wisdom to share from your own life to other people what are some of those those points that you would make yeah yeah i think the most important one would be um for people to you know whatever they believe in right um you know because this life is is is is is going to end in one way or the other sooner or later for each and every single one of us people need to remember people that they used to know where are those people now it doesn't matter what they have achieved or did not achieve what they left behind or did not live behind right they are gone right and for each and every single one of us to think about that that this life you should not strive for doing things that are bad yeah and don't do it for yourself don't do it to others you know know that it's gonna end whatever it is it's happiness or you know sadness it will end right for people to keep on focusing on you know um there may be an afterlife if you believe in god right um and also for people to keep their dignity you know anything should not push you to do something you know that you may regret or that will stay in the name of your family once you go right i think people also need to think about that you know basically um the purpose of every single one of us is to serve yourself yes but also to serve others to serve other people right whatever you have give for those who do not have much right um and be compassionate especially for your neighbors and because anything happened to you before your family members across the country all the world come to you the people that live behind you are human being you have to respect them and know their worth and also support them where they are they are in need you know yeah family community your city and then the world you know everything that you do also started in your own home right started in your neighborhood started in your city and you know spread it out and the power of your love can change actually the world and do not underestimate anything good deed that you do do not underestimate it basically you know do not think this is too small and it can be small but it it can be also very rewarding life is good life is good let's just um keep on striving for the betterness of every single one of us let's also respect and appreciate the other it doesn't matter you know um he's her you accept them acceptance of the people of the person they have worth and they need to be respected and celebrated yeah wonderful thank you is there so we're getting close to the end of our interview is there something you'd like to share that we haven't touched on at this point about your life um yeah i mean i want um what i what i want is basically you know my the purpose of my life also could could be i'm still trying to figure it out too i mean i am in my 40s right um early 40 and um i feel like you know what i have experience where i came from the quality of life that i have seen there right anytime that i go back and visit what i see right and where i live now what i experience and what i see are complete two different worlds people yes definitely people are suffering in in in africa you know what i experience as a kid many people are experiencing an even worth right now right and here being here seeing the you know the quality of life basically um you know the quality of the education system the health system you know um i want to find a way to basically build a bridge yeah like between and especially just how do we support children the well-being of children and families like from for the most vulnerable of where i come from you know but most of the time you also too busy about just work about this community about you know your family your work and all of it that sometimes i forget but i think that's my my my ultimate dream you know to be able to build that bridge to be able to maybe you know open the eyes of children that are here that actually you know you have to be thankful and um how do i make that bridge is something that i'm thinking thinking of and one day why not build a school there and teach people about sustainability basically what i have learned here in the state of the month um to take care of themselves take care of their environment um and their beliefs and and and all of that basically bring uh uh plant the seed of hope in the next generation of uh sanigales and goritangels yeah and i i think there's a there's a a reciprocal thing here that if uh what you do in sanigal could have benefits to people here it might not appreciate and understand what's going on over there yeah yeah so my old city council had on here for a second have you ever thought about creating a sister city relationship between burlington and a community over in sanigal yeah yeah yeah i thought about it i definitely thought about it and i believe that you know in even me and the mayor of burlington you know we kind of talked about it you like okay let's make it a world in 2021 and i feel like after covid camp you know it will be very hard but i think it's now about the right time to at least over the next couple of two years to see how do we make it make that happen and i also started to already make those connections about there is a sister city commission in the city of burlington that i need to approach and rebring this this this issue i think it would be very powerful as well absolutely yeah and also as you know you know sanigal and and and the state of vermond they already have a cooperation in military cooperation yeah they already it already exists military sanigali's militaries come here military national guard go to sanigal you know and i remember the president sometimes comes here you know i feel like it will be an easy to yeah yeah yeah yeah so it sounds like you're on it yes yes i mean yes you just reminded me but actually in one point i was on it and then it went down all of it yes well all right well holly this has been a wonderful time together an interview and i so appreciate all that you are and what you're doing for our community yeah and thank you for spending some time with us today yeah thank you so much gary for doing this and for your technical person to be behind the scene thank you for