 Welcome to JSA TV and JSA Podcast, the newsroom for telecom and data center professionals. I'm Laura Noland and on behalf of JSA, thank you for tuning in to our JSA virtual roundtable, positioning our industry for the next phase of digital transformation, the crossroads between hybrid IT Cloud and Edge. We do have a couple of housekeeping items before we begin. Our first 100 registrants for today's roundtable have now received lunch delivered to your door or a gift card, so please enjoy. We do have well over 200 registrations for today's roundtable. So if you weren't one of our first, hopefully next time. So make sure you register early for our monthly roundtables at JSA.net. We do want to hear from you and make this roundtable experience as interactive as possible for you. So feel free to add any questions that you have right into our chat. Also, stick around once our roundtable is over today so you can join our virtual networking tables immediately following for a unique opportunity to talk face-to-face with other event attendees and speakers. Simply join in the table in the lounge area and let the networking begin. All right. So let's get started. To introduce our speakers and to moderate the discussion, please welcome Rosemary Cochran, Principal Analyst and Co-Founder at Vertical Systems Group. We appreciate you being with us today, Rosemary. The floor is yours. Thanks very much, Laura, and thanks to JSA for putting together this fantastic roundtable of speakers. We have a lot to talk about today. It's a hot topic and getting much hotter. So I will start off with a quick slide from my company, which is really focused on networking services for many years. We've been through many transitions in the industry. So I'd like to introduce the speakers. I will. Thank you. We appreciate the invitation to participate. My name is Lauren Long and I'm the Chief Development Officer and a Co-Founder at DarkPoint. We are focused on the Edge and all parts of it enabling infrastructure and connectivity and interconnectivity for all the customers who are trying to reach the markets and get closer to where they want to deliver services. Excellent. Next, Laurence Lee. Yes. Thank you for this time. So I'm Laurence Lee. People call me LL just to make it easier. So I head up the Global Partnership and Alliances here at Zendler. So Zendler is a leading Edge Cloud Service provider, very much focused in the emerging markets. Currently, we have over 200 data centers deployed all throughout. That's all interconnected through our global fabric, our network. We run our bare metal cloud, which I'll get into allowing customers to really process a lot of their data locally in very hard to reach countries throughout India, China, Middle East, Latam, etc. So we're excited about this opportunity to share a little bit about our company, what we're doing on the market. Thank you. Great. Thanks a lot. Next, Lisa Bodine. Hi. Good afternoon and thanks for having me. I'm Lisa Bodine within Volta, located in Duluth, Minnesota, where one of our data centers is housed. We have been providing hybrid IT services in edge markets really now, going on just about 15 years. So we are located in several secondary markets. Today, we have really transformed our services to well beyond data center services and pair that with the strategic consulting and expertise of our team. So thanks for having us. And I'm not, I didn't mean to pinch you, but you mentioned that Bruce Lairman was supposed to join us and he was not able. So I'm here in his absence. Well, we're glad to have you, Lisa. Next up, Tim Parker. Thanks, Rosemary. Yeah, so Tim Parker on the SVP of Network Strategy at Flexential. And Flexential is a data center operator. We've got 40 data centers spread throughout the US. One of the things that differentiates us a little bit from folks is that we have a large network presence. We run our own backbone. We run our own network services. And we've been putting a lot of investment into the edge computing now, working with partners like Dark Points and American Tower and others to help bring services and really connectivity out there to that, you know, near edge where people need that data. Okay, great. And Phillip Marangela. Yeah, hi, thanks, Rosemary. And good to be on the panel with friends and familiar faces to talk about hybrid cloud and IT. Again, Phillip Marangela, Chief Marketing Officer at Edge Connects. You know, we obviously started, we build data centers for service providers, content, cloud and IT service providers, network service providers. As it relates to the cloud, it's about bringing the cloud closer to the end users at the edge. So we started out in North America and we are now global and have expanded to Latin America, to Europe and Asia. So in roughly 50 markets around the world and numerous data centers to support those customer requirements to bring their data, content and cloud services closer to end users. Fantastic. Well, certainly we have the right, the right level of people here and a lot to talk about. So what I'd like to do is kick it off with one slide. This is a slide that we use, Vertical Systems Group, to talk about transformations. It's basically titled, you know, what is driving network transformations and the five C's is what we call it. It's the catalyst for making a change because no one really likes to change if they don't need to. There has to be some reason or some trigger or some catalyst and we call these the C's. And those are control, connectivity, cost, cloud and cybersecurity. So for instance, when we talk about control, here the catalyst is the need to look at more closely the management of networks and applications, particularly in cross hybrid network environments. And then that leads also to connectivity which is a catalyst for optimizing application performance and user experience. And we're seeing so much there and I'll be interested in the speakers as well because a lot of shifts of different types of connectivity because of the different distributions of the workforce and work from home, work from anywhere as well as capacities because the demand for bandwidth is really skyrocketing. And that is really an issue that we're seeing also because of a lot of price compression. So the cost per bid is really getting more attractive as the bandwidth goes up. So the cost issue is always a catalyst to improve value cost ratios. And here looking at OPEX, CAPEX and making decisions on new solutions that are better, cheaper, faster and more cost efficient. And then cloud certainly virtualizing the applications their business applications and the use of public and private cloud solutions. And certainly from our research, there's a multitude of legacy applications that are still yet to be transformed. And cybersecurity, which I think is really just it's a nonstop challenge and the way things have been moving particularly with transformations it has become an integral part of that process. So the bottom line is like what's so what's a driving network and IT transformations a lot. So that's why we're here today and we're going to get started with some questions to the speakers and I think the best place to start is what is the customer perspective? What are the customer benefits of migrating to these new or if it's not new then ongoing hybrid IT cloud environments. So Lisa, could you take that one first? Sure, I think about from a customer standpoint just backing up in terms of understanding where their vision is. We often partner alongside our clients and making sure that we're aligned with their business objectives. And so understanding how your business objectives are from a technology standpoint delivered in a streamlined solution. What I think in any business it's about understanding where to put your data or what options you have and leveraging the best option for the strengths of whether it's some of the strengths of the public cloud or strengths of the private cloud. Really understanding how you can streamline and take best advantage of the benefits of that particular offer. I think really understanding that the time to value and decreasing your time to value that's tied back to your customer's business ambition is really important. That today we're seeing so much of that comes into having agility and being able to be an extension of our customer's teams. And that's the biggest part I think in terms of the benefits and helping your customer understand where the best solution is whether that's taking advantage of some of the streamline and flexibility that the public cloud may offer or some of the more comprehensive and customized solutions that a private cloud may offer. Great. Who would like to address that as well? Phillip? Yeah, sure. I'll step in. Yeah, you know, from, you know, just from your the customer benefits from migrating to hybrid, right? Obviously it's that flexibility that the customer has with, you know, connecting to the right cloud for the right deployment in the right location, right? And, you know, some stuff's on-prem some stuff's pure public and so forth but having partners that help figure that out for the customer is vital in terms of their digital transformation journey. But getting back to your slide which I think was an important one and the points you laid out, you know there was two that stood out for me in particular and that's in terms of the connectivity as it relates to the user experience, right? And the performance and that's a huge driver as you look at the and then cost being the other one but if you look at the volume of data, right? That's being consumed and created by end users is just skyrocketing dramatically. And then you look at the variety of applications, you know, particularly now because of COVID and we're all at home, right? We're working from home or kids are studying from home where they were, you know your Peloton, your TV, streaming, gaming all this kind of variety is just putting a burden on the network infrastructure, right? And then, you know, giving back to the user experience that velocity, you don't want any of those workloads and applications to be impeded. So that's what's a huge push and driver for us in terms of a much more distributed architecture to be able to support all those various demands on the network. When we is building Edge data centers much like Lauren and Tim as well, we're helping enable all this huge wave of growth and demand for whether it's cloud, whether it's virtual reality, now the metaverse and all of these kinds of things we're critical to help enable that and having those distributed architectures interconnected with the networks and the other kind of digital infrastructure that's being built out. So it's interesting times, we're all kind of growing and building and this is how we're all kind of collaborating because it's not one provider that can do it all we all have to kind of work together, share and support each other. Yeah, I'd like to weigh in just quickly on that too. I think Phillip hit it, you know, he said it right you've got that interconnection capabilities you've got this entire ecosystem you have to build. And you know, one of the things that we're getting a lot of feedback is not only the cost but it's the ability to speed your execution up. You've got your production systems and stuff that are working maybe in a core data center or your own data center but you need to get this the new applications rolling and you can't just take down or impact your ability to do business every day. So having that hybrid connectivity being able to run certain workloads out there in the public clouds or private clouds and then have your core data centers still doing all your back end systems is really beneficial to a lot of our customers. And I think the customers, you know, Phillips and others out there too who need to be able to make that transition when the time is right and have that choice of when they do it versus having to just forklift everything at one time. Right. And you see, you know, it's an interesting point because the control aspects of being able to have some visibility into those applications is really important as well. And many companies don't have the ability to get those kinds of metrics or analytics to make those decisions about what the next, you know, cloud should be for that. Yeah, that's absolutely right, yeah. And so, LL, did you want to talk about the Xamir side? Which LL? Well, well, the LL who said he's LL. Oh, good. All right, I'll go first, Lauren. Lauren, you can share afterwards, yeah. So, you know, for Xamir, we see the growth opportunity in the emerging markets because, you know, when you look at, you know, countries that are heavily populated, I mean, just the mobile broadband user base are just gonna grow and proliferate, right? I mean, you look at India right now, you know, their internet user base is twice the size of the population of the United States, right? And there's just a massive amount of data just like, you know, Phil was sharing as far as how ILT, autonomous cars, you know, social media apps, they're all being consumed at these edge markets, right? So, whether it's like in India, whether it's in China, whether it's in Latin countries like Brazil, Colombia, Argentina, or even in the Middle East like Africa, as they're growing as well, the edge services need to be sourced locally near as possible to that data to really enhance that digital user experience. And so for our companies in there, we built a global network across 200 plus data centers where we run network connectivity, point and click on demand where you can basically provision network services. You can also cloud on-ramp in these data centers into a public cloud infrastructure, whether it's AWS, Azure, et cetera, so that you can have a hybrid or multi-cloud infrastructure. The other unique thing that we deliver so that you can process and compute your data is we run our bare metal cloud edge services in these data centers. So we have 50 locations throughout Asia-Pac, US, Latin, and throughout Europe where you can literally go into a ZenLayer website and basically dedicate resources so that you can run your gaming application, you can run a live video stream, you can run a blockchain infrastructure on our network. It's literally all point and click. And so we feel the market is gonna go to the edge. Public cloud is always gonna be there, right? You can store data, but I think the complimentary of edge services is gonna enhance cloud connectivity because if you look at cloud infrastructure, they're not in every market around the world. And so as edge service providers, like some of the data center operators here, we're going into other third party countries, tier two, tier three cities. And so we're allowing customers to basically process that data locally so that that digital user experience is really enhanced in those local markets. It's all about performance and low latency. Okay, so we're starting, that was really an area we're going to get to as well as more on the edge. But Lauren, did you wanna talk to the customer benefits part for hybrid cloud? Well, I was just gonna comment. Because even just a few years ago, CIOs would have that discussion of, how best do we do this? But if you look at all the applications and the pervasive nature of technology across an organization from ATAR to finance to manufacturing to DevOps, it's in every single part and there is no single way to solve it all. It's like, well, like Tim and Trubo said, CIO no longer can say, well, I'm gonna do this a Kolo router. I'm gonna do this a private. You have the application drives how best to operate it. And it could also be across multiple modalities where as Tim referenced, there could be an application that lives across a Flexential Data Center and also a Dark Points Data Center and it works together. So I think we've entered the age where it's less about what a CIO would like to do and more about what he or she has to do. Yeah, I mean, certainly the complexity is skyrocketing and it's very difficult to make some decisions, particularly when some new technologies are being implemented because they have to be. It's just more of an accelerated implementation that maybe isn't long-term and there's a lot of hesitancy from enterprises where what we do research with is the investment should I invest in something that isn't going to be longer term. So also on that, you know, the hybrid RT, we've heard from all that. Tim, did you have something you wanna talk on that before we get to edge? Well, you know, back to what everybody said, I think we're, we've covered that pretty well so we could move to edge when you're ready. All right, let's move to edge. Would you like to talk about the question? The question I have is when you say edge is where is the edge? I mean, how far is the edge? I mean, the edges can be anything and we start to look at the transformation to manage all the applications, particularly when you get to the ones that are high performance, low latency and you're talking AI and machine learning and 5G and IoT and all those things. How far is that edge gonna go? We're kind of getting back to private networks that are basically on, you know, right next, right in my office or my home, how far does it go? You know, it's really how you wanted to find it. I think it's, you know, you've got your core data centers, you've got your near edge data centers, as I like to call them, which is what, you know, Phillip and Flexcentral, you know, we focus on those being out in those tier two cities and then you've got your local edge data centers, which are the, you know, the dark points, the, you know, EDCs that are out there at the edge of these, you know, tier two markets and in these tier three markets. And it's all about proximity and the edge can even be defined as a compute that's sitting in a manufacturing warehouse, helping run IoT or AI devices. And the key to that is really being able to bring the entire ecosystem together. I like to think a lot of times that, you know, really to support the edge, you need to be on that sub five millisecond round trip latency, you know, so, you know, a lot of those things are going to be really critical to be able to do processing and manage data out close to the edge. And the edge is going to, you know, we already see it's, you know, bringing trillions and trillions of data packets back into the networks. You've got to make some smart decisions because transport can get really expensive. But on the other hand, you also want to be able to manage that with an interconnection strategy because you're not going to put large compute out at the edge. You're going to have these data centers that are maybe, you know, a couple hundred KW, but your big public clouds and all of that is still important. And it's back to what we talked about at Hybrid IT. You need the options to do a distributed environment out at the edge. You need the connectivity back to your archive like the, you know, LL was talking about and to be able to deliver content closer and, you know, gaming is always critical on latency. But all those things kind of play together and you need a whole ecosystem of different folks that kind of help you do that. And then the one thing that I think is really going to change and it's starting to change now and, you know, your network hubs are moving away from your tier one cities because latency, you can't transport that traffic all the way back and see 25, 30 milliseconds of latency to get back to a tier one city. You need to start transporting and sharing that traffic out at the edge. And so you're going to see a lot more local traffic that's going to be produced. And then it's going to be aggregated and then only the critical traffic that you want to send back to those tier one cities or back to those public clouds, you've kind of got to try. That's one of the big transformations I think we're going to start seeing. As folks are going to start trying to manage their peering and their connectivity out at the edge so that they're not paying those high level transport costs, but also because the latency is required. Right. You know, just to kind of expand on that, Tim. I was just going to expand on what Tim was sharing just to kind of share a perfect use case example. Is that the edge to us is really about geographical distribution, right? I mean, when you look at a customer of ours that has billions of users around the world that does video streaming, okay? There's really no way that they can process all that data in a centralized environment. It needs to be distributed in edge markets all around the world because they have users in Middle East, Latin market, U.S., in Asia pack, all throughout, right? They have to be able to store a lot of that data and that compute near as possible to the source of that data so that young kid that's like streaming some type of data that latency performance is really enhanced. And so they need to have a distributed infrastructure to be able to serve all their end users all around the world because if you have like over 600 million active users at one time, there's no way they can process all that through a centralized environment. Yeah. So that's why edge is actually critical to help serve a lot of these customers and users all around the world. And I'll add on to both what Tim and sorry to interrupt him and Lawrence mentioned, in terms of definition of the edge, now the edge is sexy but we've been doing the edge for a decade now long before it was sexy but we often get asked that question how do you define it in terms of size or location and so forth? I mean, we don't, right? It's our customers who defined it in terms of, is it a tier two or tier three market? Is it a very small data center or it could be hyperscale in a core market and it just depends on the customer and the workload and their specific requirements. But at the end of the day, the other thing that Lawrence said earlier is very important where we see the greatest growth of the edge is internationally, right? I think the US has got a, from a performance and latency perspective, it's got a pretty good substantial base of infrastructure. South America traditionally, it's always been through Brazil to serve the whole kind of region. Now you're seeing Santiago and Bogota and all these other markets proliferate to support that in Asia. Well, Lawrence mentioned India, so it was all just Mumbai to pretty much support the entire country. And so now we're trying to build out an entire platform in India to support that huge population and demand growth in that country. And again, throughout Asia, China, Indonesia and so forth, there's still tons of underserved markets that go beyond the Singapore's and the Hong Kong's but to support all those people, all those applications and workloads. And then lastly, there's always, it's traditionally been download centric, that distribution aspect from core out to the edge, but so much content is being created at the edge now, right? All our TikToks and these real-life gaming, the autonomous vehicles and so forth, this is like a multi-directional. And so that's where we can't take it all the way back to the core and a lot of the compute has to be done at the edge. And that's what like Tim was saying, that edge peering is vital to be able to smartly route that traffic, whether to keep it local, back to the core, other local markets and so forth. And that's what we're really seeing develop. Well, Lauren, would you wanna talk about that one too? Yeah, I was just gonna, well, and actually, you know, Philip stole my thunder, but no, I agree with what he said. It's, you know, because it's been distribution focused, you know, into what Lawrence said, pushing content out has been the key to getting it closer, but, you know, where there's still a chicken and egg and the edge is evolving, it's gonna be the multi-directional facet of this. And how does, for example, a game, and you can pick your multiplayer online, it all has to come back to a central point somewhere, you know, in a North American server for Call of Duty, for example. It all has to connect somewhere. And how does that application break itself apart to serve locally, but still integrate centrally? And more importantly, at what point will the application developers be able to invest or indeed to create that type of distributed application when the edge itself from an infrastructure standpoint is still evolving? So that chicken and egg and still seeing the market develop from that standpoint, it's interesting. Yeah, well, in both, yeah. So Lisa, what's involved is perspective on edge? Well, I certainly think the gentlemen have the technical aspects covered when we think about where we're going, keeping up with the pace of innovation and looking at just, they're speaking about the global impact when we think about still what's on the horizon for our communities here that we're serving, right, local, state, federal. We know that billions of dollars will be put in bandwidth infrastructure investment in the coming years. And how can we partner with our communities, with our customers and bring the edge to them, especially in the secondary markets that many of us serve? Customers expect it, they want it today. It's an on-demand generation that we're serving. And so it is really important that we continue to be adaptable, leverage each other's partnerships. There's more work out here to be done than any of us could do on our own. And so just knowing that there's plenty on the horizon and that innovation is driving all of this growth in the industry, even for a faster and further. That's interestingly, a lot of the applications we're talking about are, I would consider consumer oriented. And if someone gets dropped on a streaming session or in the middle of a game, I guess, I know that makes a lot of people really angry, but it doesn't bother me. So the question is, what about other types of applications? I mean, it's such a wide range of applications everything from, as you said, from streaming to enterprises, to public utilities, everything in between. How do you size what you're doing and how do you pick the right spots to build the edges and to try to control the performance aspects that your customers are expecting? You want to talk to that, Phillip, you want to talk to that? Thanks. Put me on the spot. Oh, well. You think about the digital supply chain, right? This is what, it's from data centers to networks to towers and so forth. It all has to kind of interoperate. And we're a key, it's like rider trucks, right? We're a key enabler and we have an interesting view on where the demand is going, right? We have the largest cloud customers as customers, the biggest networks and major content providers. And so we don't speculate that we build our data center. So we work with them to figure out where do they want to go when and how and to what scale. And again, as I touched on before, a lot of our growth, we've established the edge in the US across 30 markets, right? That continues to grow and scale, right? It doesn't mean the core goes away. I'm sitting here in Ashburn and it's amazing to me driving to work every day, still how many cranes and four walls are being put up by all these major, both data center providers and cloud servers providers right here in the biggest market in the world. So it continues, Ashburn will continue to grow. But if you look at markets like Portland and Denver and Detroit and so forth, that was like Ashburn 10 years ago. The amount of data traversing those is significant in the scale. And they're becoming smaller regional or local hubs in their own right. And then at the same time, the international, I always analogize it to like these airports, right? And you have like the big hubs like London Heathrow and JFK and LS. But then all the other regional hubs and local hubs and different planes and all this kind of stuff. Instead of moving people around, you're just moving these bits and bytes and data and so forth. And it's just, we're part of that supply chain to enable that kind of digital commerce around the world. And it's all these things. It's consumer, like the gaming is huge. I talked about the metaverse. I mean, you still need, I just wrote an article, you still need the physical verse to enable the metaverse to work properly, right? You can't be in the virtual world and have latency affect your experience and then why don't you throw it up? So we're all building out at Mach 2 as fast as we can to enable all this stuff. And it's exciting times really to be in this industry and to see what's going on in the different technologies that consumer and business oriented and how they're also kind of overlapping and playing off of each other as well. Right? Well, it's, I mean, it is tremendous growth and it's not really, it's not an end in sight because more and more of the applications we use require some kind of processing or some kind of interaction. So which brings us to what types of network connectivity are gonna be required? I mean, it's really a set, connectivity is essential. I mean, unless you have the connectivity, nothing is going to work and we know that. So I'm interested in looking at what do you think is essential in terms of the type of connectivity, the bandwidth requirements and how you're managing that and the interconnectivity and working with service providers to make those implementations so that the edges can be successful. Tim, you wanna start with that? Yeah, so I think there's two aspects of it that is gonna make it really successful and it's critical. One, you've gotta have a good core interconnection that actually gives you access to the public clouds, to the peering exchanges, to the services and back to the core. Those are gonna be part of that ecosystem and then that's gonna help you distribute your workloads and when you're pushing applications or pushing security or any of those things it's critical to have that network. But I think we're starting to see a shift where people want that network to behave just like they can consume public clouds. They want the dynamic connections. They want the ability to turn up and turn down speeds and feeds based on the workloads and even time of day or event. That's one of the big things that I see a lot is people wanna be able to spin up 100 gig waves during an event and then spin them back down and not pay for those long-term commits. So we're starting to see a shift in how people consume networking and even at the edge you're gonna see that rate of consumption change and it's not gonna be people wanting to move out there and do these 12 or two year type of commits in general. They may do a small commit but they need that large bandwidth for those event-driven issues or for times when they need to move workloads around. I also think the other thing that I talked about earlier is that local connectivity. So putting an edge data center out there and not having access to the local ISPs and local providers isn't gonna do much good when if you have to backhaul of that traffic you're just killing your latency proposal at that point. So you really wanna make sure that you have that ecosystem out there and then access to all those back-end services. All right. Yeah, I think. So Lauren, good. Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead, Lauren, yeah. I was just, you know, dark points would, in the paradigm live more near edge, far edge and when we look at it, I'm kind of gonna bring in the last question to, you know, and it's not really, you know, hey, the edge is here and yay, all right, great. Got the edge and the edge is right. It's not that, right? And, you know, Tim and Phillip, you know, we all create the base digital infrastructure upon which all of this then builds, right? It starts with the data center and on with, you know, and then the connectivity, the interconnectivity, you know, the cloud infrastructure, high power compute and really location is critical. You know, when you start getting into these markets where customers wanna go and like Phillip said, this isn't a speculative thing. You can't get it wrong very many times and be successful. So it's the right location that not only allows the participants in the market that want greater access to applications and content, but also the right location that connects to the core that allows the application and content providers to connect. So really it's about enabling that connection. And you need to bring them from both sides of, this is the right place and this is what's gonna work is if you build in the wrong place it's, it doesn't have a good. So you're looking for obviously multiple service providers that can give you diversity, you know, cat diversity and resiliency. Well, it's... And I'm hearing a wave, it's talking about on-demand wave services. Is that something that's happening? Well, and I was gonna say, it's a multi-tenant, multi-application environment. It's not just a single, I mean, it could be a single tenant if there was a, you know, precision agriculture or healthcare initiative, you know, a carrier for that matter that needed the site. What we're trying to create is the ecosystem whereby all of these get together because that's when the edge truly becomes alive is when we can replicate, you know, and add to what exists in an Ashburn, you know, like in a small Ashburn in Wichita, Kansas that still feeds, you know, all the local tier ones and connects to them. I think that's what we see too at Involta is being that aggregator, that convener, that resource for your community in the region to bring the service providers together, the network providers together, and really rally around the needs of a regional community so you can not only ultimately bring that value to your customer in time to value or in access to the global economy, but you're also being, you're really an intricate part of the community and become a valuable partner both from a local business perspective and, you know, having those conversations with public, private, philanthropic entities as well. All right. So we've got maybe about five minutes or so to the end. And it's great we could talk for a lot longer, obviously, about all these issues. In a rapid kind of like a lightning round question on the top challenge for digital transformation, and there are a lot of things, but I'll give you three and you can pick one, just they're all important, but which ones you see from your customers and what's happening in terms of the, you know, the transformations that you're involved in. And that is, you know, from the standpoint of challenges, is it mostly technical? Is it organizational or is it financial that is kind of, you know, the obstacle or challenge that you're seeing in the market today? And we'll start with the topic, Phil. Yeah, I mean, just keep it short. I mean, I think it's all of the above, right? And to varying degrees for different companies, right? And so that's where you do need partnerships. Do you kind of, we talked about ecosystems, right? And having MSPs and SI partnerships to help solve the hybrid multi-cloud requirements that customers have, right? And I think that's the best way to go about it. There's no one, you know, one trick pony for it all, but you have to kind of collaborate and solve for the collective challenge. Right, but if you have to pick one, which was the, Tim, you wanna pick one? Well, yeah, so I mean, I agree that everything is included, but, you know, what's coming up is kind of something that is more challenging to handle. Yeah, I would say it's technical. And I think the reason why I say it's technical is because your finances and your organization kind of center around what you pick for your technology and what you pick for your journey, as we like to call it. And I said it is a journey and helping people understand that if you get your foundation and your building blocks correctly and you can kind of build it that way, you don't need to suddenly move everything over to a public cloud tomorrow. You know, the idea is to figure out what makes sense, which workloads make sense. And then that way, you can go back to your board or your CEO and ask for the right finances to do those baby steps, which is a lot easier, you know, a lot more easy to get support for if you can show that, hey, we're gonna start here and we're gonna take our time and, you know, here's our journey five years down the road. And so that's what I think is important. But that technical, figuring out the technical aspects of that and which parts you can, you know, bite off early on and which parts you need to wait until you've got the foundation is really important. Really, exactly. Lisa, you wanna pick one or talk to one? Sure, this is definitely difficult. I would say from perspective in the lens that we see it or I see it is it would be organizational in terms of that's where workforce sits and keeping up, going back to the speed of innovation and the speed at which the industry is changing, you know, we're rapidly having to adjust to new normals in not only our everyday life, but the technology that is driving it or that is, you know, really enhancing the user experience and the business outcomes. So I think from an organizational standpoint, having the workforce, the right people, the right place, the right time, the right budget is a really important component. And ultimately those need to align with the IT, the CIOs need to all be able to be aligned with the business in order to ensure that they have the investment for that workforce as well. Right, right, that's great, yes. Lauren? Yeah, so I guess I'll round it out and I don't disagree with any of the comments made but I'm gonna go with financial. Okay. And it was funny, I can remember being on a panel with Phillip a while ago and another one of the speakers was talking about how they're blowing up to the edge and all this edge and he and I are like, you know, as the representatives of the people who spend the first capital dollars to build the edge. Right. You haven't seen your financial commitment yet. So I think, you know, when you look across, it goes back to the comments I made of, you know, for a CTO to develop the money in the R&D to build an application that's going to massively live at the edge, the more edge, you need ubiquity. Ubiquity first requires, you know, data centers to invest the capital to build it. So I think for me, it's about financial and once those financial commitments are made across the ecosystem, that's gonna drive everything. Okay. And so we haven't heard, Laurence, we haven't heard from you on this. Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of like all the above but just kind of like a couple of key points that I would probably add on top of that is that, you know, we all had a deal with the pandemic world in a way, right? I mean, there was supply chain issues, there were, you know, us all working remote and then you saw this acceleration of online where, you know, you have people doing zoom calls and things like that, right? And so it was a paradigm shift where we had to adjust our business. And, you know, now we have customers particularly like a blockchain industry that is absolutely blown up right now. And, you know, their industry is really interesting because, you know, being typical like a central bank, they're exact opposite. They're like a distributed decentralized infrastructure that leverage edge computing where they need to have these servers and network in these critical markets. So, yeah, it's just being able to adjust to all these kind of changes that we all went through and just kind of like, you know, just adjust your business and how you serve your customers in the end as well. Right. Okay. And who did I, did I miss it in Tim? Did I give you your, you did ask? I did. I would talk. Yeah, I would talk. So, okay. So that's- Rosemary, I would just add if you look at the chats and the questions, right? They're asking about security, right? They're asking about- I know. They didn't get to security yet. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and so there's also a psychological issue of like, hey, doing what I did before in that, you know, getting comfortable with that digital transformation. So, there's other variables as well involved. I think we'll have to leave cybersecurity to another session. So, I think we're almost laurally at the end or we have another few minutes. That is all the time we have. Yes. Great job Rosemary and thank you Rosemary and all of our wonderful speakers. Great insights on the next phase of digital transformation. There is still more. So, don't worry Rosemary and speakers. We'll get to security and all those other topics that we're talking about. Just a reminder, our speakers are staying on for the remainder of the lunch hour to answer any more of your questions. And thank you for those who did put questions in our chat today. All you have to do is meet them back in the networking lounge and then table hop and you can talk to as many of our speakers as you would like. And viewers, if you are one of our first 100 registrants, we hope you enjoyed your lunch. Make sure you visit us at jsa.net to register for more upcoming JSA virtual roundtables. Our next one, market calendars is December 9th, one PM Eastern when leaders in our industry will talk about the state of the European data center and network infrastructure market. That is a wrap. Look out for today's playback of the roundtable. It's coming soon to JSA TV and JSA podcasts on YouTube, iTunes, iHeart, Spotify and more. In the meantime, see you back in the networking lounge. Happy networking. All right, thanks everybody. Great job.