 Felly yw'n cael ei sgol eich cyfosigau'r newid ynghyd i ddangos yma? Wnaethwn i daisiau facebooku yw Llyfrgeodones ar y cwrwp gyfrifolwyd. Efallai y clygau yma gafor sydd wedi gweithio'i cyfrifolwyd o'r Cymru. Yn gyfarwyddol, efallai yw'r Gafor cyfrifolwyd ar y Cymru a'i USいうこと. Llyfrgeodones, yw'r cyfrifolwyd eich cyfrifolwyd? Cymru yn y cyfrifolwyd eich cyfrifolwyd, sydd hynny i gael eu brif Fastanol moyn yn cyflawni dylai'r wych, a bydd ffroffit yn yw'r ysgol, a'u cyd-a-fyrdd o'r enw i'r newid. Felly, mae'n ddim yn dwylo'r bwysig yw ddweud o'r pryd yn llyfrwyr yn eich cyfr seals. Mae'n ddaeth unrhyw yw, ond mae'n gweithio'n cael ei wneud i'r klu'r cyflwyno. ac y lleolwyr yn ymgueddir ynglyniad y Llywodraeth Unedol. So, mae'n meddwl am ddod, sy'n meddwl i'r cynllun ar gyfer y lleolwyr i'r gwael? Mae'r meddwl, nid oedd, mae'r meddwl i'n meddwl i dda'r hynny'n mynd i'r gweld yn gwelio i gael y llunydd. A'n meddwl i'n meddwl i ddim yw'r meddwl i'r gweld ar y cyfeirio gyda'r cynnwys cyflosiaid yn ymgyrchol oedd ymgyrchol oedd ymgyrchol ..a chaeligfyrdau yn ymgyrchol, ac yn eu cyflwyddol o'r cyflwydau yn y gymryd. Mae'n ddweud, a mae'n ddweud a'n ddweud, ond mae'n ddweud, ac mae'n ddweud, ac mae'n ddweud o'r proses. Mae'r cyflwydau yn ymgyrchol yw brexit, ydw i'w bwysig yn cyfnodol o'r cyflwydd, ac mae'n wirthio... You're already working on the unions within the United Kingdom, wouldn't you? Yeah, this came about because I was between 2014 and 2016. I was special economic adviser to the Committee for Enterprise, Trade and Investment of Northern Island Assembly. And I was asked to write a briefing note on Brexit by one of the members of the Legislative Assembly. And that briefing… Well, that was quite smart of him, wasn't it? …wyd it was, but they hadn't even thought about it. And it went to the Deputy First Minister and it went to the Taoiseach, so it had some influence. But I could argue it's become the bane of my academic career because it's taken over and now there's so many public events. I'm one in Milton Keynes with a former Cabinet Minister. Right. So you're talking about Brexit partly from Northern Ireland, but also Scotland and Wales? Yes. Yes, because it flows from the special case I would argue about Northern Ireland and its relationship with Ireland then to the other devolved nations, particularly economically and particularly in the light of the first Scottish referendum on independence. Whether we have a second one is an open question. And what about the knock-on effect of the general election as well? That's been interesting because Brexit was the elephant in the room. But the election issues seem to focus on the impact of austerity. My own view is Brexit came about because of the impact of the global financial crisis on all regions outside London and the South East. Actually had less national income per head now than they did in 2008. And my own view is that Europe was the wrong target. Europe was blamed for the ills that came about as a result of austerity policies and the decline of a number of regions. So that's, for our catchphrase, if you like, a hashtag of Just Society and the overall idea of citizenship and governance. This is very, very important. You're saying that underlying the Brexit referendum and the general election result is really about a sense of unfairness. People have grievances. You think it really economic? Well, it's socioeconomic. All governments have had not activist regional policies. So privileging London and the South East business and financial services is all very well. But actually that causes spatial imbalance. It also causes socioeconomic imbalance. So the people who've got left behind, if you like, by those changes in the economy are located out in the poorer parts of the UK. So in terms of Just Society, any reasonable society would do something about re-establishing that balance. So it was the first, and so far only in recent years, Scottish referendum on independence. Was that about a kind of anger? I think Scotland's complex in the sense that for a long time the Labour Party saw it as a personal fiefdom to be unchallenged. And I think since the election, first election of Margaret Thatcher in 1979, the idea of an active union, partners within a union, has actually been undermined. And so there's been a powerful sense of resentment, if you like, against England as a result of that. And also the wider European Union setting, where a lot of Scots see themselves as more European than they do British, for example. So I think those things culture a sense of constitutional injustice, and parts of Scotland, again, getting left behind, has been the basis of a lot of those grievances. And in Northern Ireland, did you anticipate the, sorry to keep asking whether you anticipated things, but is it interesting as to whether social scientists, economists, political scientists can predict almost what's going to happen? Would you have seen the DUP Conservative support coming tonight, or was that a surprise? No, it wasn't surprised because of the nature of the DUP itself. Which is what? Well, it's a combination of, based in rural Ireland, and also the poorer parts of Belfast, and the free Presbyterian Church. So it's a political arm of the free Presbyterian Church. They're obviously criticised heavily for their social conservatism, but I've always found the members of the Legislative Assembly, I dealt with in the DUP, complex and interesting, in that they were very rooted in their communities, and looking to maintain the social welfare, if you like, of those communities. But I think desperate needs caused for desperate measures are also a hung parliament. The traditional link is obviously the Ulster Union. Can I ask, a thing which surprised me is people saying in Northern Ireland that it's somehow unfair and unwise to have the government linked to the DUP, because that impinges on the honest broker a rigorous impartiality role. But on the other hand, Sinn Fein is actually seeking power in Dublin, and so it could have become part of a coalition in the Republic of Ireland, couldn't it? It could indeed. And then it'd be the other way around, wouldn't it? Yeah, I mean political parties try to look after their own, and it is politics, and given the unfortunate interregnum way the Assembly is not meeting at the moment, you're going to position yourself in that way. It just seems to me, though, that this opens up the possibility, the breakup of the union, following Tom Lenn's 1977 book when he warned against the dangers of devolution, in that the deal between the DUP and the Tories makes a special case for Northern Ireland. But a lot of the constituency, the DUP, relies in agriculture, relies on co-operation with the South, so there has to be a special deal almost for a whole of Ireland. And then you could argue, well, why not a special case for Scotland and then Wales? And this is part of a bigger issue, I suppose, which goes back to Brexit, which has gained very confusing. If our terminology is, are you a unionist or a nationalist? It becomes quite difficult to work out why are the nationalists in Scotland in favour of the union with Europe, but not with the UK? And are unionists in Northern Ireland in favour of a union that's European? No. What's really going on with the united bit of the United Kingdom? Is it a federalist kingdom? Is that the future? Or no kingdom? My preference is for a federalist system, because federalist systems have greater economic growth, have greater equality. That's like the United States? Or Germany, or Canada, and even Spain when it was the post-the-girl of success the EU before the crisis. And what are the features then of a federal state that work? The two principles are solidarity and subsidiarity, which is what the European Union is meant to be. In that, you have to have a strong centre, so things like defence, law and order, but you devolve powers and financing to the appropriate level of government. And you have what's called fiscal federalism, where you share resources, pre-poor and richer. Final question for me, the open university has come up to its 50th anniversary. By the time of our 100th anniversary, will there be a United Kingdom with Scotland, Wales, England, Northern Ireland in the same state? I'm not a betting man, but I think there won't be a United Kingdom in the same way. But you could have a looser federal association. And that's always been the history of these things going. And if you only have to now look at the Balkans. Dr Lesley Budd, thank you very much. Thank you.