 Again, like a subcommittee of the Vermont State Senate looking at transitions related to COVID-19. We today are going to spend our time looking at the lists that have been submitted by the committee chairs on this issue and what they see as particular issues with transitioning back to some level of equilibrium in the state. Some of you may have heard in the press that we have another outbreak down here in southern Vermont at the Bennington School for Girls. Apparently there is an outbreak there. So I think it's re-emphasizing how tricky this transition is and can be. So what we thought we'd do today is look at all the lists. Senator Westman arranged to have ledge counsel on. And so what we're going to start to do is break down into the various categories for each of the chairs of this subcommittee chairs, sort of put an issue with a committee. So for example, when we go through judiciary, we'll see those parts that should go to governance, parts that might go to education, might go to economic development, might go to healthcare. And we're planning on doing that with all the committees. So I think what we'll do is just go through things quickly, as quickly as possible, as quickly as people feel comfortable. And when there's a disagreement or a concern, when it's not evident, then we might have to have some committee discussion. How does that sound to you, Senator Westman? That sounds great. I just say on the backside of that, I asked Luke to be on the call because what, you know, I think we're envisioning is on an Excel cell spreadsheet. We have the four broad categories we have. We have the issues that go in that. And then we're going to have to touch base with the standing committees to make sure that the issues that get on the sheet from each of the committees that somebody's dealing with those issues. If a standing committee is taking the issue up, we aren't going to do their work. But if we see holes, that's where we're going to try to work in to do that. And so that information about who's working on what will be the next thing that you'll want to do, figure out with the chairs of the committee, and with interest groups that feed stuff to you. What needs to be on there to move in there, trying to create an overall umbrella of a game for you. Great. Okay, so let's pull up those lists. I'm going to leave to go get, I just have to go print the list. I'm not near it. Okay. Are you going to start with Sears? Yeah, I'm just, this is the feedback from chairs. Here we go. So, yeah, so to me, money needed to restart courts. Sounds like something related to governance. I'll just keep going and people can shout out disagreements. We can each take one of these if you'd like. Concerned about the hiring freeze and state government will impact how courts open and operate. I think that's something that we want to let economic development know about. Possible surge in corrections. We need to invest in community intervention programs. I think that's also would fall in governance. I also seem to think that we want to make sure that Ginny's committee health care is, is aware of that. I would say that also Woodside needing additional funding would overlap with both health care, as well as governance. And then concerned about lack of access to jobs for when people leave prison. It seems to me that that's, that's something we want to let put on Michael's radar center Syracan's radar. How do people feel about that. Any, I'll let people just disagree. When they're ready to disagree. Deborah. Yeah, the only one that I would just question a little bit was the second one concerned about hiring freeze and. How impact the courts isn't that more governance than. What did I say, you said economic development. Yeah, that sounds right sounds more governance than the only thing with that's definitely related to the courts because the courts have a big ramp up plan laid out that we've heard about. And the problem is, it can't happen without comparable forces on the other side. In other words, the hiring freeze, there's a lot of shortages in the state's attorney's office, not enough people to do the cases. Yeah, under generals area, they're very, very short of people in the Northeast kingdom. There aren't even enough lawyers to get put some contracts out there so higher increases definitely having an impact on whether they can prosecute cases so that's definitely related to the courts. Yeah. I think I think development. Where else did you think Deb. Yeah, governance. I agree with you. Me too. Yeah. Okay, health and welfare from Senator Lyons. Let's continue. Richie, do you want to take one? Yeah, go ahead. Okay. So she felt as though within economic development, what will be what businesses will likely need our assistance and what resources do we need to provide them. All health care is a business whether hospitals or home health, each has different regulatory and financial structures. Yeah, I think, I mean, that's a great question. Certainly belongs in health and welfare. I agree to jump in. You're on that committee, right? I am. You know, we're just also what I mentioned about the Bennington Girls School having an outbreak over the weekend, noticing an outbreak. So, I think also, you know, how do colleges and universities open up, how do all businesses open up. All sort of belong in economic development and education. So, we do our pre-K through 12 institutions need, institutions of higher ed and guarantee them that strong enrollments and programs. So emphasize the programs that continue to draw students. I think just the question there is, and I think Ginny took this maybe a little bit more as an exam parts of her answers rather than listing things which is fine it kind of gets things going. It's, yeah, what are those things that education, I think, is also already starting to ask this question. Right, Ruth, around what is it that folks are going to need when you K through 12 and even post secondary open up. You want to say something. Right, we've started to take testimony on that and have those conversations and it'd be good to explore that more with this group. Yeah. So, so I would say in this nationally and in Vermont, they're talking about a 20% drop in the number of students across the country in in Vermont, people choosing to take a gap year, you know, all sorts of different reasons. That 20% will be devastating to institutions here. So is there something we can do in higher ed to to avoid that. I think that clearly is an education issue and should should be on the docket for education. Yeah. It seems we might also want to put it on on economic development, just so that they to, you know, all these institutions have jobs I would suspect, you know, I know people haven't announced anything but big layoffs across the board pre faith or post secondary and So, letting them know about it as well. Yep, but And then like you're saying, what can we do to prevent these kinds of things from happening, you know, you look at places like Middlebury and Bennington and maybe St. Michael's, you know, they all, some people might say, Well, you guys have this endowment. But I think everyone, a lot of people know that those endowments are tied up in funds, and they can all those dollars can't be accessed so it really could could impact, you know, institution, private institutions as well. And then, you know, what do we do for our state colleges, how do we keep that things going. So I'm just trying to go through Jenny's list and trying to see how best to handle it. So I'll just keep keep going through. And then people can just jump in. You know, we asked about health care. And so Yeah, for the most part hospitals and providers need to have a return to elective procedures have options for telemedicine to increase financial stability. Building global budgets with balance perspective payments for hospitals and dependent providers is important continuing systems linking with community services important to financial survival, all the workers in the organizations listed below. Others will require a vacation from stress and support services that revive us all creative programs that lift, lift people from daily apprehension to where they feel better have have begun to spring up. There should be identified in packages, you know, she brings up some really interesting good points there that I haven't thought about. All these folks have been in the hospital in the front lines, health care, we should probably have them consider and look at issues around how do you give people breaks, how do you give them, make sure that's on people's radar. You know, the other thing that Jenny puts in hers, which I know we've all been talking about is, you know, testing and contact tracing. And when we were on with Dr Levine, and several of us asked the question, how do we you know, is it right to test everyone and his concern was that the test is just not good enough it doesn't make sense, but contact tracing does seem to be advancing in the state and are there ways I think to do more of it would be another great question I suspect. Senator Ingram health and welfare is kind of asking that question. We are. Yeah, that and many, many of the things that Sarah mentioned here we've been we've been looking at. But yeah definitely getting into the contact tracing now as well too. I mean, mostly what we've heard in our testimony is is the financial instability of the health care field now because I mean from from including the insurance companies actually the commercial insurers. Because they're drawing on reserves to cover all these new things that we've asked them to cover. And then, you know, the hospitals and the independent providers are also struggling because they can't get revenue from the elective procedures. One care is trying to is, you know, the capitated payments that they pay are helping a lot of these, they're providing kind of a, you know, foundation base amounts that they can count on. But the whole system is definitely unstable. Yeah, so can I just, can I just go ahead. We probably don't have this on our list that I've heard but what about the issue of lawsuits against the nursing homes. I mean that's a big issue in other states some states have absolutely put in a prohibition against it but that's certainly going to be an issue here I would assume, since it's going on in other parts of the country. I think those are lawsuits where people are suing because people become sick or or die. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so we should we should put that issue I think in judiciary as well as health and welfare. Okay, agree with that I mean it seems like it would overlap with both just make both committees aware of it. And again, some of this will just be supporting center planar. You hear on the national level that they're talking about protecting corporations from liability for things that went wrong. I don't know if that how that how we think about that also I don't know whether that one relate to nursing homes or not. And I don't think it's happened yet but they're talking about tying future support programs to liability protection for corporations that normally would be subject to suits like this. Just something to keep in mind, I don't have a solution. That's a good question. I would think that in this first paragraph, we should put on our list. Telemedicine. Yeah, testing all in the health care area. And the next bullet she does overall challenges, the financial stability of the hospitals primary care docs. Home health agencies, basically, each in their own individual area that all ought to go in the health care area but ought to be listed all as different issues. And the next step will be for us, who's making sure that steps are being taken to deal with those issues. We've, we've done initially, we've sent money out the door to hospitals. And the hospitals have got some payments from the feds. We've sent some payments out to primary care docs. But we're, it's, it's, it's a big group of things. And in the back of that, we have been taking testimony on telemedicine. But I think we've made some strides in telemedicine that we aren't going to want to go back on. Wouldn't you agree with that Debbie. I would completely yes. But I think if we're going to create a complete list of what's going on, those things have to be on the list for this health and welfare group to look at, but broken out in their individual areas. And I think testing over the next year is going to be crucial. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and keeping up with, you know, yeah, absolutely great. So all that with health and welfare. Yeah, please. Sorry, I just wanted to weigh in. I think the way that Senator Lyons did this year, right, it's like she was writing an exam question or something. So it's interesting to see her response. And one of the things that she doesn't say explicitly, but she, maybe she does later on in her list, but is, is mental health and trauma related to the COVID crisis. I think that's added a little bit with when she's saying that, you know, people are going to need a break from the traumatic work that they've done. In other states, there have been instances of healthcare workers committing suicide after having to deal with so much misery and trauma and emergency and just making sure that our healthcare workers and people on the front lines in just our entire society has robust access to mental health services and trauma. And this is an issue for school districts too. That is a great point. And colleges and universities just making sure we have those support systems for everybody who've gone through this bad situation. I mean, it's going to pop up a little bit in our, you know, circle down here where, you know, some people are really starting to struggle and it's, how do we make sure that they get the help they need. And I think you bring up a great point with the schools, you know, on in the kingdom who's a counselor and I haven't talked to her but I, a lot of the counseling that she's doing at schools it's all this kind of thing and I don't know how effective it is. There's anything we can start to do to help those folks to help those children that are at home and they would usually meet with, you know, in person. So, it's a great point. I would, I would think that somehow we need to add mental health in the immediate service for the trauma that people have. How are we dealing with that and, and who stepping up in and making sure that in this immediate time that that the things that relate to the trauma of it are there. Does that answer. Does that say what you wanted to say Ruth. And I just across the board, making sure there's trauma related services available in the immediate term, and then obviously longer term and that's obviously long term but but there's going to be some immediate yep. Yeah. Senator Plena did I see your hand up. Yeah, I was just going to actually becomes repetitive but I was talking to someone who does counseling with young children. And she said that there's a lot of young kids who are really turned off by the zoom meetings with their teachers like they don't understand how it works like why isn't she looking at me why isn't she talking to me. How can I engage with this thing so this idea of having kids do zoom meetings with schools is not necessarily working out for any for a lot of people and it's causing a certain kind of trauma where like, I know one five year old who won't go on zoom meetings with the school because he just doesn't he doesn't he doesn't feel right he doesn't get it doesn't feel connected. So anyway, it's just something that everybody's repeating but it's worth keeping in mind that what we're doing is not necessarily working for everybody. Yeah, there's a trauma. And I would just add to that with the mental health aspect is also substance misuse, because that that's the way that people when they're stressed sometimes will try to self medicate or, you know, and, and, you know, we've seen that like alcohol sales have gone have gone way in Vermont and so we're I think we're going to have to deal with with that to people trying to handle things on their own in a way that's not necessarily very healthy. Yeah, our alcohol sales are up 14%. Yeah. Yeah, that's a very good point. Thank you. So where did we leave off there. Transition is deadlines. It looks like she covers some things with education we've talked about governance. I think what she mentions below transitioning to new deadlines for flexibility and fixed deadlines based on public health. I think set the ground rules for towns and stuff. I think one of the things she brings up here is is the housing in the GA. We've got 2000 people in and basically motels now, and nearly 300 of those are kids who's taken on that issue and and looking at it, and we should. Probably health care health or human services for us to list as an issue for our group to take a look at. Right, rich. Yes, the 2000 and motels how is that different from a year ago. It's way more mark it's and I and I haven't got the exact number, but one of the things that they've done, which is different than know is we've rounded people up and put them in motels. Yeah, I just so just wondering what how much was where the where the people have come from that are in the hotels that weren't in the hotels last year what the numbers were. Yeah, we, we pick them up off the street and we brought them in because we didn't want them transmitting. Yeah, so we've never had so many in motels. And I think the last I heard it was like 286 of them were kids. That's that may not be the exact number but the range I think so it's approaching 300 that are kids. I think and I think we've all thought that the childcare center stuff belongs in education. Yes. Okay, I was going to ask you that. Well, I'm happy to work on that issue. So then we move on to health care. We know that you mentioned finances we know that's an issue. She's also mentioned the global budget piece. Yep. All right, so we sort of went through that. Maintain public health prevention transition policies. That certainly belongs in health and welfare based transition decisions on public health first. Yes, of course, do not allow Airbnb until Vermont vaccine is available and used as above. Establish lodging public health guidelines for camps long term stays which is based in Harbor Tyler place, allow guests to stay but not room so those policies I think all belong in in health and welfare. I know things have come to finance related to some of these things but it's all been from health and welfare so Well, can I just weigh in on the vaccine. I mean, are we going to try and coordinate some of this with the governor who has said, you can take reservations for places starting June 15. You have to advise them, you know, have to do all the protocols that are required. And that you might shape in the state you may have to tell them, but people can start taking reservations after June 15. That's kind of what's the standard out there right now from the governor. Right. So it's certainly Airbnb's are going to be being used before there's a vaccine in place. Right. So protocol by Airbnb out there on its own, when they do open as to what somebody who is renting has to do. Yeah, it's like. Yeah, you bring up a good point a lot of different groups, including the industry itself is going to be putting its own guidelines up and the governor is going to be making decisions and we're going to try to weigh in. I think for now just as we go through this, you know, on the health and welfare piece that might also belong. I mean, that's really where the decision is going to be made. So we can put it there and what we're going to do Alice after we sort of chart these out. Each of the subcommittees will go through and start to pull things out, clean the list up, touch base with folks and then I think we'll get a more whittled down list of priorities. Good. Yeah, because there's just so much. Anything else that jumps out to anybody on Senator Lyons. List. Just going through it. I just say in, because we put on a number of different areas including nursing homes and including that. I've heard of a number of adult days that are in financial trouble and I've heard. We've got some EMS squads and rescue squads and I'm not sure there's anybody in one place that is collecting all the information about the places about to go out of business. I have adult days and I have EMS and I have all of these things that are showing signs of weakness and there's stuff going out, or if when we ended this childcare, there's facilities that do end up going out regardless of all the efforts that we put in. Are we collecting that information any one place. So, may I ask, so do you mean as people are starting to struggle, are they reaching out to folks like a CCD or somewhere else. Well, you're asking. No, it no, it isn't just, are they reaching out, but do we know where we're losing, losing these facilities. If, if, if do, are we creating a picture. And maybe Senator Polina knows better than I heard the adult day and Barry is talking about not reopening its doors. Are we creating a picture of where those the holes that are going to be created of this are for those type services. And today and Barry has definitely said that they don't plan to reopen so that's really big shock to the community project independence. The other thing I was going to mention was that government operations has been taken a lot of testimony and a lot of conversations about EMS and the ambulance services and so we're not exactly keeping all the data but we've had a lot of conversations with them we've got a few legislative proposals. We've had a lot of conversations with the community of the healthcare system which for some reason has come under gov ops, and but we've spent really a lot of time talking with them and I have a pretty good understanding of what the challenges they face are and a lot of them are in big trouble, which is something we can talk more about later but Swansea know that in terms of EMS we're definitely on top of that as much as we can be. You know, right, but I in that that, but who is someplace in state government, keeping track of all of those things that are in danger. So we, in the transition time, know when we come out of where the holes are going to be. Nobody kind of mapping right, you know, where things where we might need to a geographic areas that might need assistance whether it's adult day, early childhood daycare that kind of thing correct. Yeah, I think somebody needs to be tracking that. Yeah. I think, I mean, Richie, wouldn't it be the relevant state agency so CDD should be tracking how many childcare centers are potentially going out of business and whatever. I don't remember the acronym for the agent office of aging would track the adult days or whatever. I feel like you're absolutely right, we need to make sure that this is being tracked and taking care of and data is being collected I don't know that we have the capacity as this committee to do that. I would think we have the, the where with all to suggest, and we do quite frequently to the administration that maybe within the secretary of administration, all that information gets fed back to them. So we know. Yeah, where the hotspots are that really immediate assistance. Yeah. Does it make sense to put on in each of the committees that issue that, you know, the importance of reaching out to government agencies and do some kind of mapping. Kind of like that. Yeah. Yeah, I did you have a comment mark. And we're we have a shortfall of money we have people unemployed, and we have businesses that are not going to reopen. Yeah. And having a map of the businesses that are not going to reopen this, we can make a long list. What one of the things that would be a priority was to see where can federal money be spent to resolve some of these problems. Yeah, good point. And where can it not be spent. We keep on watching us talk about making the list and mapping the bad news, but every thing you read and every experience and every other country where they've had problems like this, the mapping that is most expensive is the tracing test and trace test and trace. We've got like a jailbreak here and we've got we're running through the, the bushes trying to catch, catch, catch people. If we don't test, and we don't follow up on who's sick, all the rest of the stuff is just going to continue to get worse, unless the enemy the virus just dries up and goes away. So if we're spending our this, we're transitioning to what in this committee, I know I'm not asking, I'm not being positive thinking here. But what is it the committee is designed to do to weed out the things that we ought to be doing now, as we transition to deal with this in the long haul or do we look at. Oh, well everybody's opening up so things will be back to normal soon. I think, I think what you're, I think what you're saying Marcus in the transition, one of the issues we have to have on the list is what about testing, because we're going to have flare ups, like the girls school and, and we're going to have to maintain a level of testing that we never have before. We, we haven't. And, and the other second part of testing if you look at what China and South Korea and Singapore in those places it done. When someone is sick. They have a meeting, and they chased down all the people that were in contact previously. That is a relentless and technical job, but that's what goes after the problem. We're going to simply spend our time on how do we help people who are victims of the problem. And then find the way to the resources to pay for that. It's the same time that people are out of work. That's not a formula for that. That doesn't strike to me of being a formula for, I don't know what it's a formula for. I think what you're saying is that issue that you just brought up needs to be on our list, because over the next year, we need to do more tech we need to maintain a high level of testing. And we need to be better about tracking people. If we're going to stay on this. Stay on this we haven't. We've barely gotten on it, because we've all been told to stay at home, and we've slowed it down. But we can't live that way. Right. Forever. People have to go to work and they have to go to work in an environment where if someone is sick. And catches it, there's a, there's a posse that goes after the people who have been in contact. So, I'm not being helpful here with finding answers, but I don't, I don't know how we can make a list of everything that isn't going to get done. Sorry. No, that's, that's fine. Ruth. Yeah, I just want to say, I mean, I agree with you Mark, definitely. And I think that a lot of that is starting to happen more and more and has been happening and we heard that in testimony from excuse me, the commissioner of health about a week and a half ago. And they're sort of plan to increase testing and contact tracing and they I think in their budget request is a request for additional staff members to do the contact tracing. And I think that's a good question. Debbie, you might know more on health and welfare health care committee, but that's my impression is that that is already in the works to be ramped up and we should keep it in on our list for sure. And I think there are already plans to do that. Maybe they're not sufficient, but there's certainly not not happening. We need to make sure that that's on our list to make sure that we're pushing that those things along. Yeah, I think we'd all agree that the overarching issues are what we keep saying testing contact tracing. You know, if things are going to open up how do you do it in a safe way, whether it's, you know, asking the questions that health and welfare are asking around. And what are the requirements for ends health care workers just going to the grocery store mandatory this mandatory that all those are big overarching questions. Given the time, should we move on to appropriations? Yep. Okay, great. So, Jane has gone through first thing she believes, of course should be an economics is, you know, taking a look at our current resources, how they're being allocated. Our existing programs designed and administered in a way that targets the right beneficiaries, or are they largely giveaways to a small set of businesses. How effective our current tax policies programs and steep strategies to support businesses, those kinds of things. Do they recognize where job creation occurs. All of this I think can be divided up into economic development and that subcommittee when you look at that. You may, you're going to probably be in contact with not only economic development, but some health and welfare stuff might be in there, as well as finance. But I think all those questions belong in in economic development at this point. Education. Let's see if there's anything new here how will the educational needs for students who have essentially lost a year of education be addressed. Are there for programs. That's something that I think, Ruth, you guys are already starting to ask what it's going to be look like when things kind of transition back. Yeah, yes. Yeah. All that should go into education. How can VSC for most ecologists play a vital and creative force in meeting workforce needs, build its enrollment by offering courses where they're strong demand. How can VSC replace Southern New Hampshire's inroads into our high schools. I think they belong in and certainly you might divide some of those questions up not only in into education, but I think economic development could weigh in on some of those. Okay, we'll go on to government. Local government be required to build financial reserve so they have some fiscal cushion in times of economic downturn. I think that's a great question that can we'll put it into economic development but that's something that I think would overlap with a lot of committees how to be realistic in what state government can do and should do for the near future. How can government best invest the CRF money for long term benefits broadband housing other infrastructure. So, so I would, I would think that this should be in in government, but the other piece to this that I would, we started to give our local governments ability to put off dates for collection of taxes. At the local level we've done that. I know they're struggling with that and finance. Are we going to end up in a place in the short term where local communities need a place to do short term borrowing to help them through stuff because they've run up against a wall that people really can't pay. And should we look at that in conjunction with law more longer term. The idea of having communities. Build reserves, because I see the reserves pieces more of a long term. That's the piece that Beth Pierce started working on and has that propose proposal that's house with regard to paying the interest and other charges with regard to loans that municipality might get through FEMA care. So there's already something started on that and it would certainly be good to keep track of it. Yep. Okay. So we're just saying go bops we've been talking about that as well. The idea that local communities are going to be hard pressed because they're not going to be able to collect the taxes that are due necessarily whether it's before the deadline or after the deadline regardless of what the deadline is. People are having trouble paying their taxes, which then leaves the town short which then means the town can't give money to the educational fund on time. I think the bottom line is yes, it's definitely an issue that has to be explored and go bops will be thinking about that. Right. So, I think we ought to list that under government, the government piece. Yeah, yes. I'm going to go off for a second because I'm running out of battery I have to move into another room where I can plug in my iPad, I'll be back. Okay. So I'm going to take care. How do we use this experience to accelerate payment reform so that system is less reliant on the more volatile fee for service. So our public health system as robust as it needs to be how well is how well it is respond to the pandemic. Ruth, do you want to just take us through quickly agriculture. Yeah, sure. We're going to work and we're going to try to still stick to our one o'clock so yeah, you could divide it up a little bit that'd be great for us. Yeah, the ad committee is working on an ag relief package and it would include assistance to dairy farmers who've seen a huge drop in milk prices. They include assistance to other kinds of non dairy farmers for expenses they've had to incur in order to react to the coronavirus, particularly things like pivoting their business to do more online or farm stands or more direct to consumer stuff. And then there's a piece about migrant farm workers, though they did not qualify for the federal funding that the $1,200 so we have a piece in there for them and I'd like to come back to that and ask your, ask you about that. And then some other sort of systemic issues with our ag and food systems we're looking at those. So those are the sort of short term things and then we have some longer term which were meant for the other committee. But the two things that I think that I think the ag committee has got most of these covered but the two things that I would like to put on the list for this this committee are one food security just in general, or food insecurity just in general, we have some, we might include in our ag package things like funding for the Vermonters feeding Vermonters program which is through the food bank or school lunch programs or the the ebt snap program but those are issues that are, are both interculture related obviously but also just health and human services related. So I think that they should go on this list to food insecurity for Debbie, Brian, would you put the food insecurity stuff with more or less human services in welfare? Well, and would you put the loan stuff more with with economic development for our purposes. Yeah, I think the food insecurity stuff is home is the health and welfare and then the, what do you mean the loan stuff the to Yeah, you talking about the relief stuff. Right, I guess the ag relief stuff some sort of generally speaking would be economic development. But I also just, you know, the ag committee is working on that so you can have it on we can have it on our list here but we're hoping to have a package within the next week or something. But the one thing I would, you know, an Anthony can weigh in here too we've had some discussions about this. What we have in our bill currently is a more narrow farm worker related relief for for migrant farm workers who work on our dairy farms who are not US citizens, they don't qualify for the federal money. And so we have right now a $500 payment, it would probably have to come out of general funds not out of federal funds because of concerns about federal clawback for providing relief to non citizens. And you know, we're getting a lot of testimony that this should be broadened and broadened out to more than than just farm workers to other people who may not have qualified or did not qualify for the federal funding. And I have made the argument in ag that we should be sticking to farm workers because it's an ag relief bill. There may be other opportunities to talk about this in other committees so I just wanted to put it on the agenda. I don't know which list it would go on but the possibility of some relief to Vermonters people who live and work in Vermont but who are not American citizens and therefore didn't qualify for the federal relief stimulus relief checks. I think economic development for now. Yeah, yeah, development. Just something I think it would be worth talking about broader than just agriculture. Thanks. Great. Okay, let's go through Michaels looks like Michael. I just read Michaels housing and urban develop housing economic development. A lot of what he's talking about our small businesses how do we Certainly here are all things that I'm sure already on Michaels list, but we just, you know, we can list them on ours under economic development and I know we're all hearing from from and I'm glad he put it down restaurants and the tourism industry, clearly hurting. What sorts of things can we do from those guys. And that's really what Michaels emphasized and I think we It's all economic development, all economic development. It's not, it's not. It's not development it's, it's a notion of restoration. Yes, yeah, you're correct. And that, and that's the The area that we have a huge number of people in and the prospects are without testing and tracing the prospects are What's going to happen when the Plants run out of the meat they've already packed and the frozen, the frozen food and what's going to happen when the half of our agricultural processing industry in the United States, which is geared exclusively to restaurants and the hospitality industry. Half the food is prepared for them and it's packaged and sent and marketed differently than the half that goes to grocery stores. Is that going to suddenly bounce back, or do we need to transition to a more local Solution if grocery stores begin to run out of things that have been, you know, stored in the back quarter. Is that our responsibility, or do we just assume that everything that we're transitioning back to normal. I think that's a good thing to put on economic development as well. The contact tracing and health aspects of reopening we've already covered in our on health and welfare and I think again that's an overarching probably perhaps one of the most important things we can deal with is Doing testing doing contact tracing. How do we give people this the necessary information to return when they need to return the necessary requirements to have a healthy day at work, etc. Joe Benning institutions. So, Joe mentions, I think, overall, his concerns that are happening around, you know, what he's experiencing what his community is experiencing around economics around education. That kind of thing. I don't see anything new mentioned judiciary reopening that we've covered mentions local municipality. He apologizes for being negative I don't think it's being negative I think he's just kind of talking about what his, what he's witnessing. And he highlights understandably, you know, the Vermont State colleges so I think, I think it's contents are pretty well already incorporated. Senator Bruce. You're on this committee as well, Senator Hardy and Senator McNeil. All of this. I'm sorry, Senator Ingram, yes, you're the vice chair, excuse me. I do apologize. This is like all of this. Again, since right now we're just dividing things up in all of this can go into the education pile I don't see anything that belongs anywhere else. So I think all of these kinds of things are going to fall into issues that education are, you know, what all of you are looking at. And then I think with that we have divided things up, save for Senator raise list. If we could just open it I sent it to you all, just before things got started. And let's just go quick look at this. Understandably, a lot of concerns around clean water. You know, we could put those certainly, you know, in health and welfare's responsibility right now and then, you know, we can go have to divide those up but that's where a lot of what Senator Bray is talking about seems to be the most appropriate. Certainly outdoor recreation and planning could also go into, I think into economic development, looking at issues related to tourism. Things like that. I think right now I'm feeling. Yeah, I'm sorry but I have, I have to leave right now. Yeah, we'll finish up in the next few minutes. So we've taken a first stab at this alleged council will produce for all of us a list of how we've divided up the priorities and what we've Richie and I thought we would do is just when we all get the list. Each subcommittee could have a more careful look at the list. I mean, where there might be holes that you would identify so Debbie and I, we're going to look at health and welfare. We'll look at, we'll meet in the next day or so once we get the list back and identify holes look at things that might be priorities look at things that we might want to communicate right away to committee chairs. Initially, look at each list as all right this is where we have, where are some of the holes, what sorts of things rise to the top. In terms of your prior what you think are priorities. And we thought we would, you know, again regroup in a better day. Yes, Luke. So, a question and then a warning to everyone question do you prefer the list as a word doc as a chart, or as a spreadsheet I don't know what is easier for you to read off your various devices. I can only speak for myself but I love Word documents myself. I have a feeling, knowing my colleagues and friends. Senator Hardy strikes me as an Excel spreadsheet person. But and I but whatever I get I'm going to be fine with so. Okay, I like where we can do both. Okay, that'd be great. Thank you. And then a warning what I was working on is a word doc and making changes as you folks discussed. But what I started with earlier today is simply cutting and pasting the emails. So I will send that to you is still very long. I don't want to take something out because it might be something that's relevant to you. It's very complicated. Some of it seems very lengthy. If you individually, or the two you and each subject area can just let me know what to take out or condense. It can be easily done. I just don't want to do that without your input. So that's the warning. It's long. Read it through I think half of it probably could be stricken. I just don't want to do that until you folks have seen what your colleagues submitted to you and make a decision that indeed it can be taken out. Is that fair? Yeah, fair. So again, we'll look when you can get that to us later today. I can send it to you right now. Let me look at offering take out some of the obvious typos and such. That'd be great. And then we can all spend touch base with Richie to see when he wants to meet next. But if the subcommittees could just start to look at the list. Look at what might be missing what some of the holes are some of the concerns and then some of the things that rise to the top. And I think that will lead to an interesting discussion. And when we meet again in the meantime, we'll start sharing these things with Senator Ash. And get a sense from him. Some more direction. We know when we're meeting again in a big group. I think, I think we talked about Wednesday. So, and I do apologize. We did say that we're going to put together a calendar so let me just check with Richie. And we're going to put that counter together, but let's try. Let's just tentatively say Wednesday at about the same time. Yeah, does that work for everybody? I know there's some folks that have earlier morning commitments that day. So we'll just say tentatively Wednesday at noon and then Richie and I will get back to you. Did you have another question. Judiciary usually goes until 1215, but I'll note that. So maybe we do 1215 on Wednesday. I had a question about and maybe Alice is the only one who would know this because she's on appropriations. It seems like a lot of what our, our solution unfortunately may be is that this thing needs money, this problem needs money. I'm wondering Alice, if appropriations is, do you have a big spreadsheet of, of how you're divvying up or starting to think about divvying up that cares money or not. No, no, not yet. We, we can't print it. So we better use the stuff that's sent our way that all Americans apparently have to pay back I don't see the corporations paid anything back so we spend on per person basis. That's where the money is. Vermont has traditionally in the last 30 years whenever we've come to a crunch time, we've cut spending. That's what we do. And I don't know if, if we follow the same pattern and reduce taxes and cut spending and how that, what that transitions to other than people being further and further divided on the income scale. I think one, what Ruth brings up is a really good point and maybe what we can do is on Wednesday we could get Senator Kitchell in for 15 minutes and just give us some guidance around what kinds of things. You know, what some of the limitations are what the, you know, just a picture of the reality out there as we move through these this list. I think that would be would be helpful. Yeah, because I think that we're all going to have needs and I mean just thinking about education the Vermont State colleges that that's a huge check that we're going to need to write if we're going to have them open so I don't even know like what the markers are and it'd be really helpful for us to hear that. I'm not going to be funded by cares, not by the regular cares for COVID. I mean, there are other other money maybe but it's hard to know at this point. Yeah, well getting a better sense of those plans would be helpful. Yeah, I think it's a lot of the healthcare provisions are in other bills to not necessarily the cares. I will invite Senator Kitchell in and if anybody else decides that they want to hear from somebody else, in addition to going over some of the holes and some of the priorities that we see, just let us know. And I think that's a good point, Ruth, let's hear directly from the chair of approach right now and and see what we were actually dealing with and help guide some of this rather than talk about it and then none of it can really end up happening. Great. Thanks everybody. We'll be in touch. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Bye.