 Good morning. I know we are missing a few folks today, but I'll get a few more minutes to come on in. In all honesty, I'm kind of waiting around to see if the app delivery folks are here yet, because they're usually the ones that kick us off. So we've got a few other things on the agenda today as well, not the least of which being like, hello Dave, Dave, you're here, hooray. I am. Hello. Excellent. I'll make you do like a more formal introduction and things as we get in towards all of this. No, excellent. I didn't expect you on camera as well today. Excellent. The weather here is terrible so I'm not taking my kid to football instead she's sitting next to me playing on the iPad. Okay, you know, we welcome everyone to these meetings clearly. Yeah, I'll hold for another minute because I don't think we're going to use all the time this morning but we'll see and Liz is not joining us so you get me this morning. All right, that looks like everyone that we are likely to get we're now four minutes past the top of the hour so I'll go ahead and get us started. Our normal antitrust policy notice. Hello, welcome. Meeting logistics you are here. Please note that this slide actually needs to be updated we now have pass codes on the meetings but it's in the public doc. And it's in the CNC of calendar as well so that's probably the best place to be able to grab the zoom link so to see members present today. I'll update this over on the to see public working doc so you can see who's here and all of that. Our agenda is pretty straightforward today. Again, welcome to new to see a member will kind of go over the projects needing review, and we'll drop into sake updates and hopefully there'll be time for questions as far as things coming around in the world, but we'll see. So with that actually I'm going to do like Dave this is now your time to be able to do like welcome new to see a member hello come introduce yourself, the light to be able to have you. Sure, I guess I'll try to keep it quick but I'm Dave. I'm an engineer in the platform team at Spotify. I'm in Stockholm Sweden. I don't know what else do you want to know about me. That's great. You're you're you're here you're welcome. Great to have you. Thank you. Next up, kind of we've got a few open votes out here that's kind of the only thing that's really on my needs to see review. Anyone is fully welcome to be able to put their hand up I am watching chat as well but we have an open vote on Rook and an open vote on the open policy agent and if I remember right I don't think any of the to see is actually voted on the open policy agent. So, this is my shameless plug for please get in there. Thank you. I think I was confused by whether it's a face or a comment period at the time period is done. We are now in voting going to do. Okay. No, that that actually is a good clarification. I don't know that it's entirely clear when we say public comment is not actually the vote yet public comment is come by and say things. So, I will be more clear about being able to indicate which is the vote and which is public comment. So, excellent. Any other things that I should have put on this particular slide I'm checking chat and check if anybody needs to be able to. Okay, no further confusion. Excellent. I'll turn it over to app delivery of any of those folks are here. I think I've got Harry. Hello. Hello. Excellent. Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm here. So, yeah, let me give a quick update on the C gap delivery. So, we recently have no project on the under review, but we do have some other working items. The first one is the working groups. We have some recent update the first update is from air gap working group, which is about cloud native application delivery in air gap environment. So, we're now inviting the telecom customers are very works to share real world you the cases. This is actually now. Also, with the help from canola from the reworks so thank you very much for her help. So, if any other company or another members want to contribute user cases regarding to the application delivery. Please feel free contact to the chairs or attend attend the meeting. We are very happy to include your user cases in the upcoming. I will say it's a series of blog post about air gap application delivery. So this is the first update. The update is we also have a discussion to about a emerging trade, which is about this. We are we are seeing that a lot of platform builders. Now, they are very active in the community. They are building clone application platforms based on corporate and his based on a clone native stack, but all of them. They're doing their own work and they are lack of interoperability. So how can we help them and how can we onboard them in the city gap delivery and to talk to to to share more details about what they are trying to build. What does the community can help is the next step we're thinking about. So we're we're trying to over this clone native application platform builders to see and say which which are now they are quite far from the clone native community. Although what they are doing is very closely related to since it but that's still far far far away from the community actually. So we're trying to onboard them. So if anyone have any suggestion on how to onboard the platform builders. For example, for example, somebody who are building a platform service. Who are building a in house service platform based on the clone native clone native stack. We're very happy to involve them in the sake in the community and to improve the interoperability to improve the standard right and this is a goal. And we also have a proposing community to move certain working group back to the sick discussion, because we notice they are, you know, the discussion some some discussion items are split into working groups. This is actually not very easy to. Yeah, so Josh is asking about what do we do you mean by we're boarding up by boarding and saying that yes, we're trying to reach out to them. That is what we are trying to do and also we try to involve them more in the sense of in the clone native community, which we recently now is not the case. For example, there are a lot of companies they are building platform service. Right. But we don't know how they do that and we don't know what technology they're using to build that because right now, most people in clone native community they're very focused on the infrastructure layer. The focus on networking storage runtime of Kubernetes but nobody care about those people who are building platform at top of them. So this is what I'm saying about onboarding them, and we are trying to, we're trying to reach out to them we're trying to involve them more and to share their case to share their blockers if any to share their ideas with the community. So this is what I'm trying to, I'm trying to express here. Yeah. So let me go back to slides. And so, according to the proposal I just mentioned, in the future I think I think see gap delivery may merge some of the working groups, for example, operator working group back into the sea. So we will continue the discussion around operators in the second meeting, instead of split the discussion to a different meeting that that that maybe the direction we want to go. But it's, it's, I will say it's promising. And there are also a bunch of working items that I want to give a quick update to the first is that this is actually proposed by alloys. So the community are trying to propose a sample application, which are which could be which could be used for any kind of application delivery or management demo. And this demo is very different from what we are using today like workplace or book infer. So this demo will include more real world use showcases, for example, it will include the credential management, the data input and output to showcase how we use cloud native technology to solve the real problem instead of just a demo application. So this is, we will call that a generic sample application, which is, which will be maintained by the community so alloys is leading this work. So the idea is, we try to show, we try to show me the code, instead of body paper so the original goal in the thing is that we want to write a lot of white papers to explain how, how the things work but eventually found that it's more easier for us to do this showcase by having a sample application. And then we create demos and samples around this application to show. Okay, what is really happening in the cloud native application delivery system. So this is the direction we want to go in the next step. We want to create a sample app, we want to create a the demos and the youth and the showcases around the application instead of just a writing white papers. And in order to do that we will we will also try to publish a blog post series about application delivery and technology deep dive. So, one question is who, who should we contacting since if you want to publish some blog post in the name of say gap delivery delivery. I record there. I didn't answer that. Sorry, hi, this is Bianca. Yeah, just send an email to PR at CNCF.io. I'm on that alias and we'll get you sorted. Okay, got it. Yeah, that is what I'm asking. Thank you very much. Okay, so the last working item, I want to give a quick update is that it's quite similar to the blog post is actually about a session the session is, you can think of it's more like a summary about this blog post. So we will give this a community will give it a session in the group called North America is about it's a deep depth deep dive talk about clone application management ecosystem. If anyone think you have some project or idea, which is interesting and I want to be highlighted in the talk want to be engaged more with community session. We are very happy to talk and we are very happy to evolve anything which can be shared is in this session. Okay, this is what we can update regarding to seek up delivery. Great. You've got a lot in here. Thank you. Any questions from chat anything else. I have a quick question about the about the sample up I think it's a it's a great idea. And the question is, it says it's a community maintain sample. So is the plan for app delivery to start the effort and then for community to get involved later. We want to have the community get involved at the very beginning. So, so, so yeah that the idea is that we want to get everybody to contribute ideas around the sample application but the simple application itself, maybe proposed by the tech lead or cultures at the very very beginning, but the application, but I will, I will, I will assume that this will be just bootstrap, and then it will be fully maintained by the whole community. So, yeah, that is the current idea. Got it. Thank you. It's a great idea. Okay, then we can move on. I believe our next one is a contributor strategy so Josh. Sound check. Seems good. Okay. So, just a few things, but including a couple of things we'd like feedback from the TOC on. The first thing which we don't need feedback from the TOC on is we're going to be doing a project paperwork help session at kubecon. There's no logistics of this but it's been accepted, which is, we've been generating a lot of checklists of what projects need in order to have a complete picture, particularly the aiming for graduation, or to get from Sandbox to incubating or just to get accepted in CNCF. And our plan is to help projects with that at virtual kubecon. So we'll be doing that. Thank you for our various sub projects. The governance working group spent some time discussing last week's special TOC meeting. One to remind the TOC that per our email, we're still waiting for the TOC to confirm that they want to go into this new direction for requirements. So we start putting a lot of effort into trying to write up and define those. We haven't seen that confirmation. We are also, we've also been continuing our work of writing guidance for projects. This is true both for governance and also for community growth, contributor growth. We're actually generating a lot of guidance documentation for projects. So questions are risen. Where is that going? Where is the approved guidance going to be published? There isn't currently really a place within the CNCF ecosystem to publish that kind of thing. So, you know, again, we want to come to the TOC, would it be okay to stand up a site called something like contributors.CNCF.io, where we would publish material that had been approved as guidance for CNCF projects. Because we need a place that's not just to get help repositories and stuff in GitHub repositories is both not searchable, and also it's never clear which material is approved and which isn't. Finally, governance just putting there's an issue a proposal that to explore, because we have to determine the projects actually want to do this. The idea of having a joint code of conduct enforcement committee for smaller projects, projects that are not big enough to have their own COC committees. So that's linked off of the slides. I will post that into the chat a link from that and discuss that issue. The maintainer circle is going to be discussion of resiliency and October 22nd CNCF meeting, at least tentatively scheduled for that. Contributor growth. Again, publishing documents. First one is on measuring project health. They're prioritizing finishing the documentation on creating a contributor ladder also templates for that. So if that does become a requirement for graduating projects. Projects will have all the information they need to create a contributor ladder. And also community and contributor sort of management guidelines. Finally, the discovery survey is still open. All right, lots going on in here. Looking for feedback on some of the things that you need the most are kind of like where should we be putting things. Yeah, yeah, that's the number one thing. And, you know, and this would include guidance and governance guidance contributor growth any maintainer circle activities. That is where what is our location for people who are working on the projects for information for them. And, because right now we have like we have contribute dot CNCF that I owe, and that's information for potential new contributors that sort of routes them to projects, but that's actually a different audience than the audience of people who already run existing projects. The, and the maintainer that CNCF that I owe domain was taken for a different purpose and moving it would be very difficult. So contributors that CNCF that I was the best name could come up with we're not particularly attached to it. Mostly what we want from the COC is to determine that to see determine that. And to stand up a new site sub site within the CNCF domain, rather than necessarily getting involved in naming bike shedding although somebody has a particularly clever idea for a name. I would love to hear it because I don't. I mean, who maintains this websites with. We do. Um, and that can be as simple as being able to have just like a GitHub pages thing that's attached to a, you know, whatever sub domain you'd like. So, from the technical side, it's not that difficult. Having dedicated location for contributors is is a good idea and just mentioned that the maintainer CNCF that I owe there is there's already a page for that. Yeah, the gigantic spreadsheet of like everyone is a maintainer so like taking that one over is going to be hard. I just I just clicked on it. It's just it's just a dog. It's gigantic. It's a lot of fun. I think I think we passed 500 maintainers about a month or so ago. So, yeah. Yeah, something more structured like a website is probably better. Contribute is just redirecting to get up at the moment those. Yes, that one could actually be taken over as well. Yeah, I mean it might. It seems confusing to me to have contribute and contributors. Separately I'd kind of it would seem to make sense to have one website that with content both for people on who want to be on boarded and for people already there maybe just to Those we we discussed that in one of the meetings those are actually pretty different audiences. I mean, because you think about why somebody goes to the location, right? Why somebody goes contribute right now is there. Hey, I just graduated from programming camp, or I just got involved in cloud native but Kubernetes is too big for me to get involved in, you know, what other projects can I get involved in. And that's one orientation and there's a completely different orientation which to say, you know, hey, I'm, you know, Frederick I run Prometheus. How do I get help with project PR. They're very different needs and so if we put them both under contribute that cncf.io, the homepage for contribute that cncf.io would have to be a big page with two buttons on it one of which says I'm looking to contribute to a project and the other one says, I already run a project. And, well we could do that. It's not like subdomains cost us money. The new site sounds good. Probably blick need more conversation. Just take this to email. Josh, is your ask on an approval for an actual domain or a process to get one in short order so we don't keep like shedding. Yeah, the basically, you know, yeah, an approval to get, you know, to to stand up a new site understands sub site under cncf.io name to be determined later. Bike shedding to happen on mailing list or somewhere else. So is that silence means the TOC is fine with standing up domain. I think having a dedicated dedicated website makes a lot of sense for contributors and and maintainers and Yeah, I agree. I think it would be useful to have a website. That said, I don't think everybody from the TOC is here so maybe let's follow up over email. Thank you for asking a few folks so email follow up would be excellent. Thank you. All right, any other questions any other notes around contributor strategy. All right. See lots plus ones. Lee, instead of bike shedding, you get to present. I'm so much better at bike shedding than this. Okay, you can try both. Well good. So it's a network. We did not meet this last time but we we have been consistent prior to that last time or two memory serves. We use the signal work core meeting time to advance the service mesh working group. I think we've covered once or twice in this meeting. Part of the some of the initiatives under the service mesh working group, one of them that we had only alluded to and hadn't discussed much it sort of relates to Well, now I forget the exact name of the first thing that spoke the application delivery. I was talking about. Well, sample apps and publishing of those and helping educate and that's certainly part of the same charter for Sydney network. Within the service mesh working group there's been an effort to bring together a number of common service mesh patterns. The link in the slide links to a sheet that has right around 60 patterns. The there's about 30 that are considered foundational and about 30 that are considered advanced. And so that working group has been advancing those patterns. It's the intention of those that are involved to provide those as provide those a sample. Well, how do I provide easy tooling to deploy those sample patterns. So the sample patterns that are being worked on in the service mesh working group. Some of those members are also authoring a book on service mesh patterns. So they'll be included in that that separate book but also the community around a misery is working on implementing those patterns to make them easy to deploy so that people can learn about them to play around with them. Part of the effort of the working group around patterns is to also identify anti patterns. And so that's kind of an update from the service mesh working group. Recently, a Submariner as a potential project proposal shows signs of interest in potentially submitting, which is great. We want to spend some time with those folks and welcome them to come present or to go apply. Ambassador is an incubation or proposed incubation level project currently under review. Yeah, those are, and then yep, we will, I think the last two to three times that we've had, we've had cube con deep dives slash intros. And so we're, I think we're on the board again for this upcoming cube con. Where are we on ambassadors like jump back in. Is that is that another question you were hoping for today. I'm under equipped to I'm. Yeah, I couldn't I can't speak to it directly. Okay, I can follow up with you offline. That's fine. Any other questions in here. Checking chat checking like anybody unmuting. All right. Thank you, Lee. Go ahead and move on. Observability. I think that's either Matt or Richie or go ahead. Yeah, hello. How are you. So we have a quick update for today. We're not undergoing or we're not in the process of any ongoing reviews, you know, for having projects move from one portion of the CNCF to another sandbox incubating graduated. Following the state of observability work that was done by Cheryl that was pretty awesome to see. There was a desire to have this sake undertake a more comprehensive broader look at not just end user community members but the state of observability tooling and people's experiences with it. More broadly. So, given the, given the nuances there and doing that properly within, you know, the umbrella of a CNCF SIG, we've decided to start formulating a proposal for an actual working group that would have, you know, all of the process and oversight that a working group would have at the TLC level so that's work in progress. There's a draft, but it's quite early, but just as a preview the SIG is is taking that. Taking that up. There's another series of work items that are ongoing. One is pretty exciting. And it's a Prometheus slash Thanos metrics analytics API. This came out of some work that our talk has been doing with those upstream communities and is really around an API. That's that's still quite it's it's nascent, but it's all around how analytics workloads can engage with you know and move around access manipulate data generated from observability tools. So there's a link in the slide, and there was a recent spike for that to add parquet as an input output format. We are organizing a round of observability projects where they can come to the SIG and do either short webinars or introductions to the project. As an example, we've reached out and have ongoing discussions with litmus, which is a chaos engineering project that has a lot of observability outputs. And another example is open telemetry. We're, you know, we'll be having a webinar with them, but the actual work item that is happening presently is defining what's the format for that. You know, a template for slides things like that so that it's well formed and it's within the scope of the SIG and not either, you know, architecture or things like that. And then lastly, there's a work stream document that we've been incubating in the in the SIG around analytics use cases for observability data more broadly. And there's a link there for anyone that's interested. Other than that, I think things are going well. We have more people joining every week, and the community has been growing. And I think you'll see the SIG transition from open discussion meet greet let's figure out what this is about to to more horizontally scaling work streams and being able to really provide provide people who are passionate about the about the whole domain to work in parallel and collaborate across projects and across industry. So that's been very exciting to see. Also, and that's it from us. Matt question has the the end user radar. Was that a point of discussion within the SIG. Yes, that actually consumed, I think, two meetings ago, almost the entire meeting in a positive way. As well as last meeting a portion of it. And out of that discussion. I think we want to vector people's passions, I'll say, to to the working group so that we can, we can actually have, you know, a time bounded effort goals, artifacts outputs that are that are agreed upon before it starts given again the nuance around the role of its role in the space. And, frankly, most of our, most of the folks that have been showing up to the SIG meetings are actually from companies working in the space. We actually would like to see more and more end users show up. I'm an end user, but I'm in. I'm quite outnumbered. And that's not a bad thing either right to see, you know, it's actually. I'm just, I'll just leave it there. I'm not, I'm not sure. Is there more of a specific question that you're asking or I mean, yes, it did spawn, spawn quite a lot of conversation. And Cheryl joined us two two meetings ago so a month ago to kind of help to disambiguate and and provide more context around what it was what it was not what the goals were what the goals were not etc. I appreciate that. Nope, there wasn't. It was an innocent question or there wasn't an insinuation. Oh yeah well so if I'm if I'm speaking freely, well carefully freely. I think I think some of the, and again the recordings are up I don't want to, I don't want to put. I don't want to poorly summarize but I think there was a little bit of learning that folks knew to the CNCF and to the SIG structure. I don't want to say learning that's pejorative. Not pejorative. I think we had to kind of reiterate, you know that this was a survey of a small set of end user community members it was not a broad industry survey. There were things like, you know, the CNCF is not a king maker. This SIG is not, you know, either a king maker nor as a, you know, an approval body it's a place where we can come together and talk about these these issues and, and ideally form working groups and or work streams that, that are that are productive in a collaborative way. And so, you know, when it comes to a broader survey. I think that is well within the R scope we call it out in our charter as something we'd like to do and, and it serves a number of purposes, one of which being to identify gaps in the CNCF where we might want to engage with projects that are not in the CNCF but also to look at how out in industry that are using in some cases a blend of open source and or CNCF projects or vendor projects and sometimes the vendor projects are based on those open source projects so it's it's quite a layered nuanced domain. And so if we wanted to undergo a broader survey that doesn't just include CNCF members but includes, you know, industry generally how would we go about that and so thankfully some people in the SIG have prior experience with running surveys like that. And, you know, again, it's it's a very early proposal in its earliest days of the first draft so we don't really have anything to talk about concretely but we hope in the coming cycles to have a concrete proposal for the TLC for a working group that so we can, you know, be clear and specific about what it is and then and then take on the work to do it. Okay. I have two more questions that I will. Yeah, yeah. Run time. You're up. Hey everyone. This is Ricardo. So, yeah, so we have been doing some work reaching out to communities and having some presentations in our meetings. So in different spaces. So on the OS for container space. We had the two projects, two projects presenting our meetings. The first one was Talos and that's an operating system that allows you to manage all the components using API so it's a secure way of managing all the components. And it's patterned that it's, you know, being used more in the, for example, there's, there's another project called bottle rocket from Amazon Web Services. And they're using a similar approach where you manage the operating system using just API is and so you don't have access to the shell or, you know, or SSH access so it's a different way of having it more secure. Then another project in the operating systems for containers is flat car that's from Kimbock and that that's pretty much an evolution on core OS and with some extra capabilities so they're at they're getting a lot more adoption because I think core OS is not longer being or it's not longer active. So, yeah, and in the same idea behind core OS where you have this lightweight operating system where you can run containers on top of it. And then on the containers in run times, we had some projects present and also reached out to some other projects so one of the interesting ones that we had at our last meeting. There is WSCC, which is a WebAssembly secure capabilities connector. So that's a way to the couple of your applications into different pieces into different WebAssembly modules and this different pieces can talk to each other using a broker. So the idea is for making it easier for developers to just focus on the business logic and use some of the other bits in WebAssembly so they, you know, they have those other capabilities in those other bits. For example, like if you want to connect to a database using a Redis database or like Cassandra database that will be a WebAssembly module just for that and so developers wouldn't have to focus on creating that WebAssembly module but they would just use it and use the system to connect to it. So that was WA-SCC so pretty interesting and since like that's some of the workloads and how they're going to be maybe run in the future or glimpse of how they're going to run in the future. So another project is a trial and we reached out to them. That's a container image registry and it's written Rust so they're interested in presenting so they haven't come from yet so hopefully we get them to present in our meetings. Then we reached out to Wasm3 which is a WebAssembly runtime and this is a runtime that you can use to run something like your WebAssembly modules that can be used with something like WA-SCC. And then we also reached out to another project called Nanos and that's basically running a unique kernel in a VM so we'll see if they want to present in our meeting. On the AIOps and H IoT space also we had some projects presented and we reached out to. So seldom core is basically machine learning operating operations framework so it allows you to serve your models, machine learning models and then also make the inference and and have some other capabilities on how to improve some of the model and get information on the how it's working and how it's doing the inference part. Then Qflow is another project that we reached out and they're interested in presenting so basically this is machine learning end to end. So it allows you to run the full stack like the learning part, the serving part so you can use something like some long core on top of Qflow so we'll hopefully have them present. Qflow is another project that it's in the edge computing IoT space and they're scheduled to present that are next week. And last but not least very net it's deep learning gateway that runs on top of Raspberry Pi so you can set it up at the edge and do deep learning type of workloads. So that's what for the projects and for the presentations and communities, I'm sorry, and as far as the projects. So we don't have a lot of activity activity so way is still looking for a TLC sponsor so we're going to leave it up here. So that you know it's out there so in case there's a TLC sponsor that wants to go ahead and continue with the due diligence. And then as far as our work group container orchestrator device working group. They submitted a KubeCon North America panel so they're very excited about that and will be got accepted so representing. They're working on a POC so this is the standard way of using devices in containers so they're looking at doing a POC for with potman and container D which is which are to run times. And then they're also looking at integrating with NRI which is the no resource interface, another project presented presented our one of one of our meetings, about a month ago. Yeah, and that's all I have for the updates for sick runtime. So, any questions or anything. Thank you. Good stuff and chat, people are very happy with this so great thank you. Thank you. All right I don't see any questions to hear I don't see anybody in muting. Cool. So we'll move on to security. Hello. Hello. How's the data and security. So, first up we have county security day. That's happening. We're excited about it. I believe the CFP's just ended yesterday. So we're going to have kind of round up with the reviews for the proposals. So kind of cheddar we are we are thinking about doing a CTF for this virtual instance for this. We'll see how that works out. But again all these details about this is an in sick security events on on sec. So, another thing to happen is then shall finishes term as a coach for security. So we have nominated Emily Fox as our new coach and the vote has been successful so congratulations to Emily. And another, another thing is on security assessments. So this is something that we started off in docker con 2019. We got together and created the first draft for what security assessments will look like the security assessment process. So we made a decision to say that after the first five assessments will come back and take a review of this process and kind of fine tune it and change it in a way that made sense. But we didn't want to make any changes yet until we had a good amount of data points. So right now we are on the completion of our fifth security assessment, which is key cloak. So the assessment has been done. The other outline has been drafted so it's just a matter of cleaning something and presenting it. So in light of that, we did retrospective presentation we put together kind of some feedbacks from the initial draft is off the assessment process. And there were a lot of ideas and a lot of discussion points that were brought up in the community. So we set up a kind of a small working group to kind of target what are some things you can do with the security assessment process. This involves, you know, making the documentation a little bit better. We talked about how to modify the schedule so it works better for both reviewers as well as project leads. And one of the target items that we also like to see is to see how this will map onto the new to see process from the new sandbox process as well as incubation and graduation and how it relates to security assessment. Last but not least, we have the cloud native security quite paper. So progress on that is good. We had a few gaps in terms of content for the storage, but we reached out to six storage and Alex has volunteered to help us out with that. We are expecting all content to be done within another week or two. And we will be having a draft that will be ready to for review by select reviewers. So hopefully that will be in a ready set that we can share pretty soon. Question and chat around six security working on the recommendation for in total at the moment. Um, I think that I think the last one we did was, if I recall correctly, we did something for opa I don't think we've made a recommendation for in total yet. But this would be similar to I think what we did with opa which we would. Is this for incubation. If I'm not wrong. I believe say yes. Okay yeah I think we've got to go back to the. We've already done the security assessment for in total, I think we will go back to that just see what are the changes that have been since then and if we would give a recommendation based on that. But let me make sure that we have that on our list of to do. Thank you. All right. We can move on to storage. Go ahead Alex. Hello. Okay, so with for figure who are currently looking to come in as a incubation project. Justin Cormac has volunteered to be the the TSC sponsor for the due diligence process. We're going to allocate tech lead and I'll be working to schedule those those first meetings with the with the project team in the coming days or couple of weeks. With open EBS, we had a good review with the project team around the, the, the multitude of repose and some of the challenges, which regards to the licenses, we may, we're going to be reviewing this internally. We may need to touch base with with the with the foundations. Find legal counsel. There's your answer. What is this process can find me. You thank you very much. The TICV graduation votes was completed. So that's, so that's great news. The rec graduation vote is is still ongoing. During the last to see sandbox review, there were a few questions around the IBM's data set lifecycle framework. There were some questions around, you know, the clarity and the targets functionality for for the framework. So, so the project team took the opportunity to put an FAQ together and represented at the sake which, which I've shared with the to see. But fundamentally, you know, we think there is little overlap with the, with the, with the cap that the to see was was concerned about. And I think that this should this new information hopefully should should allow the to see to vote for the for the project at the next sandbox meeting. So the performance and benchmarking white paper. It's, it's been paused for a couple of weeks, but we hope to finish this off and and it should draft well before cube con and launch it formally in time for cube con. So our virtual session accepted one of the one of the things we're looking to, to build out in the run up to cube con is some of the view of some of the gaps that we see in the in the storage CNCF landscape, at least. And it's similar to to what runtime have done, which is absolutely exemplary is trying to try and invite some of the, some of the projects within that landscape to present at the sake and build up a bit more of a community to to address some of those gaps. So, what's the space will have more information for the next meeting. And that's me. I don't see any other questions and chat anything else. Any overall questions. Going once going twice. I guess everyone is done here. So, thank you very much everyone. Good to see all of you and be well. Thank you. Thank you.